15 December 2009

Daily Chat 15/12/09

Byzantine general Belisarius defeated the Vandals at the Battle of Ticameron in 533.  The first ten amendments to the Constitution of the United States, known collectively as the Bill of Rights, was ratified in 1791.  Pushkin House was established in St. Petersburg in 1905 to preserve the cultural legacy of Alexander Pushkin.  The Leaning Tower of Pisa was reopened in 2001 after an 11 year long closure to reinforce the structure, at a cost of $27,000,000.

Believe it or not, the only vaguely interesting birthdays today are:  Nero (37-68), Gustave Eiffel (1832-1923) and Dave Clark (1942).

It is Homecoming Day in (on?) Alderney.


  1. [Terrible Gilbert & Sullivan Joke]

    What did the Tower of Pisa say to the Eiffel Tower? - 'I've got a little list'.

  2. Good morning (good?Ah, well,at least it is morning as I type).
    Have to say hank, Monkeyfish et al, very good pounts made around the wankerism that infests the staff-side at the Guardian. I've made my feelings known about Seaton before, but he's by no means alone. It's that media bubble mindset and its disconnect:insufferable, the very definition of smug twattery,both ignorant/blinkered and condescending, only what concerns us and our cloistered clique is what matters. It's all about posturing and being seen to be sooo right on, feminist anti-racist,anti-imperialist yadda yadda, but that's all insincere bullshit, because when it comes to practising basic fairness and equalities they won't. You've mentioned the nepotissm, but there's the whole infamous Oxbridge list, the inviting of pals to write etc.

  3. 'People who know people are the luckiest people in the world'

    This is how the world has always turned and it is futile to complain about it in the media world - I think it applies especially to newspapers, where the best person for a coveted job so often turns out to be the sprog of a boss - or is, alas, connected in some less obvious way with a boss.

    Is the Guardian worse in this respect? I would say not, were it not for the hypocrisy involved - the hypocrisy of the bosses of a liberal newspaper reserving jobs for their own.

  4. Edwin,

    I think though that in this case, a paper like the Guardian sets itself up for a fall much more than the right wing chip wrappers.

    It styles itself as left of centre and champions social justice etc. However, the finances of the Guardian media group are just as murky as News International or Associated Newspapers.

    It's 'of the left' yet consistently refuses to let working class voices ATL to share their experiences of recession and being the brunt of 30 years of neo-liberalism. They'd rather let mates who've sponged off Daddy blow off their noxious po faced meanderings in our face. Who of course naturally are of the same middle class social strata.

    It 'champions social justice' yet is THE mouthpiece for a destructive neo-liberal administration which has done more to widen social inequality than any other in modern times.

    It's this that sets the Guardian apart in hypocrisy terms from the right wing press.

  5. Alisdair (grey and wet here too)

    I've just proposed over on the Guard that the Govt should relocate the BBC's HQ to St Kilda to refresh/revitalise management thinking and save money. (I think a simple round numbered stretch of say ten years would be about right - that's for a tour of duty without home leave)

    I think that a similar confinement on a remote Scottish isle with a diet of seagull, and without mobiles, for senior Guard people would be in the national interest too. It might help solve the problems that you/Hank/MF and others identify so well.

    Failing the non implementation of my staff development idea above, the editorial policy of the Guard would probably be better derived from a clean out and then a journalist/worker co-operative. Could be no worse than what emerges from the incest breeding swamps of Oxbridge.

  6. Edwin/Duke

    How often it is said that " .........the consumer is king".

    When I hear that refrain of that delightful sham claim I always want to shout back " yeah I hear you, but a king without a crown unless we get some fucking consumer education between herm ears"

    So much that is important and worthwhile is lost because of ignorance and lack of collective will.

    Our football, our newspapers, our political system.......aye the bastards..

    The world is full of kings and queens
    who blind your eyes
    and steal your dreams

  7. Bang on deano,

    I'm much taken by John Berger's quote that:

    The poverty of our century is unlike that of any other. It is not, as poverty was before, the result of natural scarcity, but of a set of priorities imposed upon the rest of the world by the rich. Consequently, the modern poor are not pitied but written off as trash. The twentieth-century consumer economy has produced the first culture for which a beggar is a reminder of nothing

    or as Gandhi himself put more succinctly:

    Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed.

  8. Edwin

    "... or is, alas, connected
    in some less obvious way with a boss..."

    Your not suggesting they are shagging each other are you?

    Whatever next. How distasteful, you'll have the 'nice' folk complaining to their priests.

  9. Spot to everyone above who points out that the Guardian's actual sins aren't unique but their brand of hypocrisy is.. They're very New labour in that respect. The last Tory administration were absolute bastards but were bastards to your face. New Labour would say all the 'right' buzz-words,attitudes etc then betray you and stab you in the back.

  10. 'People who know people are the luckiest people in the world'

    Very true. I benefit immensely from my 'contacts list', and wouldn't be without it.

    Not because they get me jobs or into swanky parties, however. Because they're my mates, and I love 'em. Christmas break starts tomorrow, have come over all soppy in anticipation of seeing my parents, my friends in London, and attending the wedding of two dear friends.

    And I never thought I'd say this, but thank God I'm flying Easyjet.

  11. There was always something in the claim that the biggest political party/grouping in the UK was the exLabour Party. It must now be beyond dispute.

    The feeling and the mechanics of the betrayal by NuLabor is indeed as you describe AC.

    It is acutely and painfully felt by many of my generation (war/post war kids). We always knew the Tories were our enemies, some of us even suspected our new and younger labour leaders but when the sell out started it still hurt.

    I know older men who are to this day shattered because of it. They constantly regret a lifetime of dedication and work, to and for the Party. All too often at the expense of time with their families.

    Mandelson/Blair/Brown created a lot of disillusioned and saddened people. I know some who feel about these guys like Dennis Potter felt about Rupert Murdoch.

    I know several who if the were told that they had cancer tomorrow would go out shopping for the quickly expanding body belt the day after.

    One day that beautiful but angry young woman who threw the green custard on Mandelson may have a fully primed pensioner to throw at the bastards.

    As with all tramps I always travel in hope.

  12. Have a lovely time PB - I hope you will have access to a computer when you are home and will keep in touch from there.

    {holds mistletoe up}..xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Gap in drizzle so dog walking calls

  13. deano
    "I know some who feel about these guys like Dennis Potter felt about Rupert Murdoch."
    Beautifully put.

    Have just written out my 'ops schedule' for Christmas - can't see all of this going smoothly, there's just too many things that can go wrong...am taking a big book and some biscuits to ensure I can sit out any traditional yuletide narls-ups in the travel plans.

    Plus, I've been recruited as 'coach coordinator' for the french contingent attending the wedding, so am a bit concerned about losing a bunch of people in Bath. [thinking positive, thinking positive]

    But will be going to the gathering on 21 dec - shouldn't be so nervous (!) but am not good at meeting new people...

    [kiss for deano]
    [and dogs]

  14. Bluebell pic is up.
    I thought I said this earlier.

  15. I left the Labour party when Blair sucked off the Australian pornographer.

  16. colin - very nice - and I rather like the original underpainting 'in itself', as it looks like a sepia print! agree that the balance is better with the skinny tree painted out, like the way you used a bit of it as a branch.

    now, do I call the contributions people to see how much I owe them, or leave it until I get back and plead angli-stupidity? hmmmm....

  17. Lovely quote from John Berger there, Duke.

    It's all been said before about the Graun but it doesn't make it any easier to swallow. FWIW, I don't think the paper has ever really been "of the Left", it's traditionally been a socially liberal paper but has never had any truck with ideas or people who might frighten the horses.

    It's never in my recollection been a pro-Labour (ie Old Labour) paper and it's an indictment of the direction that Harman and the other identity issues gang have taken NL that the agendas of party and paper now fit so snugly.

    It does make me laugh, hollowly, that a paper which campaigns so passionately on behalf of equal ops and against discrimination applies different standards inhouse.

  18. Just read Tessa Jowell's little piece. Nice rant on there, Alasdair.

    Tessa: "When a public service is mutually owned, we know staff feel that they are leading the reform process, rather than having it imposed on them."

    Hmm, well if it's anything like the reform processes within the traditional public sector over the last few years, the staff are perfectly aware that they're allowed to tinker around the edges, within a broader framework imposed by Whitehall and led by dickhead private consultants whose contempt for prevailing public service ethics is clear.

    The staff are also aware that the processes they are being enjoined to participate in are ultimately geared towards doing the job with fewer people.

    Tessa's blithe complacency about the extent to which staff are happy to join in these reforms suggests that she has spent much of her wildnerness period with Bernard Matthrews, clucking approvingly as the turkeys put up the Xmas decorations.

  19. Wedding PB?

    Have I missed something whilst I was away or had a dongle blackout?? Who be marrying...

    Now then our lass about the 21st. I know you are a proper brought up lass and learn'd too so I'm not over worried about you - but here's a checklist just in case you've misplaced yours:

    i) make sure you have some clean knickers in your pocket;

    ii) make sure you have some sterilising wipes;

    (There are some right mucky folk drink in London bars and it's not just the toilet seats you have to watch out for, give the rim of the glass a quick once over too.)

    iii) mistletoe is to be avoided - it's a sure fire device for an unwanted pregnancy;

    iv) if the mistletoe can't be avoided give your kissing partners mouth and sexual organs a quick wipe round too;

    iv) avoid alleged Belgian beer and pretend Champagne - all that sparkles is not the real McCoy;

    v) memorise the following script:

    "Kizbot - we know you have you have spent a lot of time with debauched geeks but:

    If I am drugged and end up in a pornographic film or am traded to some far flung corner of a house of ill repute in Beligium...or sordid Lancashire whorehouse

    I want you to be clear that deano30 and my other mates over on UT will be around your house in fucking Blackpool, you will held responsible and they will shake the shit out you until you tell them where I have been sent..."

    vi) just to be on the safe side - make a written copy of the above and carry it in your knockers.

    If you follow all of the above you should have a fine and safe time. If the worst happens and you have to run, Stoaty's is probably your nearest safe house. Head for Borstal in Kent and then ask for directions.

    PS. Don't be seduced by them slick tongued tossers that you might come across.

    I know that your mam will have told you all the above before but we don't want you lost through the want of a simple reminder.

    Have fun young miss.

    Duke I rated the quote too.

  20. What a dreadful spelling error - I didn't mean knockers I meant knickers!

  21. Hank,

    It's all been said before about the Graun but it doesn't make it any easier to swallow. FWIW, I don't think the paper has ever really been "of the Left", it's traditionally been a socially liberal paper but has never had any truck with ideas or people who might frighten the horses.

    Interestingly, the founder of the Manchester Guardian, John Edward Taylor had some 'interesting' views.

    Originally a radical (Bourgeoisie naturally) who campaigned for univeral suffrage, his views quickly changed when he became founder and editor:

    "the qualification to vote ought to be low enough to put it fairly within the power of members of the labouring classes by careful, steady and preserving industry to possess themselves of it, yet not so low as to give anything like a preponderating influence to the mere populace''

    He also refused to let the paper campaign on child labour:

    "though child labour is evil, it is better than starvation".

    And he opposed the '10 hour campaign' to reduce workers hours and raise pay saying that the proposed legislation would cause:

    "the gradual destruction of the cotton industry".

    Fight the power eh?

    All of a sudden the refusal to the let working class people above the line takes on a consistent historical thread.

  22. ".....staff feel that they are leading the reform process, rather than having it imposed on them...."

    Silly bitch more are waking to the fact that it is the public who own the services that are having the reform imposed on them.

    But we mustn't touch the banks 'cos if it ain't broke don't attempt to mend it.

    Tess, if you spend all your time with pygmies you don't appear big you always get cut down to their size.

    Hank - day off/working from home?

    Fuck me I'm hungry and there are no victuals so I'm off to the shop.

  23. deano

    vi) just to be on the safe side - make a written copy of the above and carry it in your knockers.

    inadvertent quote of the day! Are you sure you didn't mean it? ;)

  24. Duke

    "...though child labour is evil, it is better than starvation".....

    A perfect example of issue confusing double think - why the fuck couldn't any rational soul seek the abolition of both child labour and starvation or at the very least aspire to it.

    Out of the mouths of..........

  25. I was hoping ".... debauched geeks .." might win it Duke.

  26. Someone please tell me graemephillips (on the boomerang boys thread) is a spoof?......

  27. Interesting stuff, Duke, classic Manchester liberalism, free trade with a safety net to salve the consciences of the bleeding hearts, just enough to stave off revolution.

    "...though child labour is evil, it is better than starvation..." - that's a killer quote.

    Working from home, deano. Got a report to get in for Friday and there are fewer distractions at home. Daft deadline though, no bugger's gonna read it before the New Year anyway.

  28. Dotterel,

    have you ever seen 'There will be blood''? I'm getting definite whiffs of Eli Sunday.

  29. Alright, I've just said there's fewer distractions at home and now, having read graemephillips' first homily, I'm having to read them all. He's not exactly brimming with Christian compassion and kindness, is he?

  30. Your Grace,

    I don't believe I have, I'm torn between taking the p*ss, putting together a serious argument and just getting on with some work...

  31. deano - brilliant advice, my dear, and I will certainly be following it to the letter! oh, that made me laugh a lot...

    (am only involved peripherally in wedding - bride and groom currently reaching stress level 12 so are calling in favours from everyone attending! but I get a chance to wear a posh frock. ok, a frock I bought from laura ashley ten years and two dress sizes ago. but it's a frock, damnit, what more can I do?)

  32. R4 Word of Mouth currently discussing Orwell's Politics of Language, which I think has been mentioned over the past couple of weeks

  33. Yum - fine mince pies and room temp good mature blue Stilton. A fine late breakfast and worth the hassle of visiting a shop. I'm starting to feel better now.

    Discipline Hank & Dott that's what needed.

    I've just exercised some (I try to do it once or twice a year so I don't forget how its done) by not falling out with my favourite Chinese supermarket manager Peter Wong (true name real person), who was trying to tempt me with a selection of single Malts all with a tenner off.

    (I've been on the wagon for the last three weeks and will remain so till after Christmas dinner.)

    This time a couple of years ago he threatened to call the police and have me thrown out of the shop - the argument was about my inalienable right to buy a check out girl, chosen at random a bottle of fine wine as a token of my affection and to present it to her at her workstation. It's against company rules - the argument got heated, the waiting customers and girls on the adjacent checkouts were much amused.

    I finally won and the lass had the wine to the applause from the crowd but whenever I go back in the store he clocks me on CCTV and then appears and follows me around. Apart from that he's a great guy actually.

  34. Just checked out that graemephillips
    Oh,dear, not a well cookie.

  35. Philippa:

    Word of Mouth currently discussing Orwell's Politics of Language

    Good spot, but too late for me because I’ve missed it. Maybe it’ll be on Listen Again later…

    At one time, Politics and the English Language (to give it its correct title) would have been required reading at The Guardian; not now :-(

    deano, maybe you should check it out as well, then you could rewrite your last post to read:

    my inalienable right to buy a bottle of fine wine for a check out girl, chosen at random, as a token of my affection and to present it to her at her workstation

    The way you wrote it originally, it sounds as though you were interested in buying the checkout girl, for what reason we’ll never know, so it’s no surprise that the manager still regards you with suspicion ;-)

    Still some sort of Bru-ha-ha going on on WDYWTTA; is she trying to steal BTH’s crown (tiara?) for longest running public spat?

    Still, rexmundi thinks she’s just great…

  36. Deano,
    At first glance that looks like you attempted to buy a check-out girl.
    I'm often tempted myself.

  37. andy - it was quite interesting, applying Orwell's thesis to examples from today's papers (some of the extracts are hilarious) but it was a bit waffly. mind you, it was 'word of mouth' so maybe i should have been expecting that.

    anyway, one chap said that one 'word without meaning' is 'liberal'. Now, i know we've discussed this before, but i disagree. have just parcelled up all the Christmas presents using liberal amount of tape, so there.

    on graemephillips, i can perfectly understand that someone would consider shared faith to be a key thing in forming a new relationship. but that guy sounds like the kind of outlier who'd start throwing around phrases like 'not a proper christian' and 'burn in hell' if you didn't happen to subscribe to exactly the same apocalyptic reading that i had hoped we'd left somewhere in the 14th century.

    also, I know someone called graeme phillips. he used a slightly different set of criteria when on the pull...i am assuming this isn't him...

  38. Interesting debate on the Berlusconi attack. It's a shocking picture but not sure why his age should be material here. That's just another airing of the Klaus Barbie/Pinochet defence.

    And while I've got some sympathy with those arguing that the proper punishment for the likes of Berlusconi, Blair, Bush et al would come at the end of a fair trial, the complete loss of faith in justice being seen to be both blind and equal explains why many will be silently cheering at the moment.

  39. Cheers Andy!

    I have a different technique for buying checkout girls. It involves a simple smile, a claim that I need some help because I have some grit in my eye that is not blind and an invitation to come rowing But I think you know at least part of that!

    I'm going to catch R4 piece on the laters machine.

    Did you finally clock the Bru-ha piece here?

    Given my regard for you I wouldn't want you to be unaware of what regrettably came by whilst you were away.

    Dearest Miss Shepard may have argued with Alan Bennett that the shit on his drive blew in under the gate but we all knew better. (If you don't know the yarn of the lady in the van its fab and a great Christmas read)

    If perchance you remain unaware and want to know about our little local unhappiness I'll locate the date and reference so that you can be aware of the details of the unfortunate event if you wish.

    (It's not my style to stir our kid but I wouldn't want someone who I rate to stumble on a vipers nest and then wonder if he had tried to inflate a lead balloon to escape).

    rex seems to have nailed his flag to an unstable mast but I'm no expert on WDYWTTA matters 'cos I rarely go there.

  40. Andy cos I rate yer I didn't tell the Mungo and the Poppies yarn whilst you were away.

    I guessed you'd be back one day and I thought I would save it for a quiet day when you and some other Mungo fans were around.

    He's still a total bastard and is as I write still sulking 'cos I won't buy him what he wants for Christmas.

  41. deano:

    I missed the

    little local unhappiness,

    but had a look back when I read some reference to it here, so I know, I think, what it’s all about, though perhaps there’s really only one person who knows what it’s really all about. Unless, of course, she’s told her therapist…

    I don’t want to shit stir either, but sometimes the temptation is just too much ;-)

    I didn't tell the Mungo and the Poppies yarn whilst you were away

    Bloody hell, you’re a tease deano. Given that we’ve all waited this long, maybe you should write it all out and air it on UT2 on Xmas Day, so we’ve got something to read instead of watching the Queen’s speech.

  42. Phillipa

    I booked a last minute trip to Istanbul on Saturday just before the news broke about the BA strike.

    Guess which carrier I'm flying with? BA of course. Still isn't all bad - I'm flying out on the 19th and the strike doesn't start until 22nd.

    Might mean I'm stuck in the old city for a bit longer than I'd planned as my return is just before new year, but shan't complain about that!

  43. Hank

    I don't normally advocate violence but I read somewhere an interesting little snippet about the best models of religious institutions to bash up politicians with - do you go for spires - pointy and good for stabbing or domes - good for clubbing?

    On the whole best to see them in court I suppose.

  44. Yeh, there was a nice post from someone on the Berlusconi thread, sheff, who was disappointed that his assailant hadn't used a real cathedral.

  45. The funniest thing about that Bru-ha-ha is that it will lead more people to check out Untrusted and, hopefully, some of them will like what they find.

    TurminderXuss (who I’ve never seen here) has just pointed gandalfo in our direction. Hi if you’re reading this, guys.

    But we certainly don’t need sarcastic bastards like StudRockman (whoever he is), do we ;-)

    Laters, everyone.

  46. Andy - there were quite a few skirmishes whilst you were resting my friend.

    Just so that I know you will be safe over the festive period you will/ought to know that it went thermo nuclear on 14/11 (read 13:18 -> 17:34)

    When you've reassured me that you will know it may be advisable to carry your gas mask when out and about (in it's discrete little box of course)I'll remove this post.

    Sheff glad to see you around dear friend I was worried you might have pushed your mam in the Thames. Have a Turkish Delight for xmas.

    Interesting to read your ex was a sculpture type
    and you too. Don't know if you saw, I was with you and Chin on the question of the dance and the revolution.

    MsChin If you are around tonight I would appreciate some health advice. - I reckon Mungo the bastard is taking revenge on my refusal to buy him what he wants for Christmas by bringing nits into the van.

    Have washed me hair everyday for a week with medicated shampoo (I don't suffer from dandruff)and I still can't get me head to stop itching.

    What's the name of that stuff the nit nurse used to give out?

  47. Hank/Sheff - don't start turning into liberal tossers.

    The Romanov solution admits no Court. If you want them to have chance we can stone em it's not a guaranteed method of despatch.

  48. Well that's me off-line for a bit - son is coming to borrow my laptop to do his xmas shopping


    (what do you mean thank god for that? - somebody has to keep the pantomime on the road during the quite periods...)

  49. Deano

    Lovely to see you, glad you're around again. My first instinct is to stab the bastards - which cathedral is it that has four spires? -that would do for a start. Keep trying to be a responsible citizen - keep failing.

    I haven't been around much lately - been feeling a bit bleak lately so kept myself to myself. As I said earlier am off to Istanbul on Saturday - would love to get stuck there and not have to come back!

  50. I came I saw and I liked! Hi all

  51. Hey! It's Santa's Little Helper!
    welcome, gandolfo...

  52. Evening, oh wonderful Untrusties

    Pip - I always used to love Christmas at home when I was living in France. The French just don't do Christmas the same way.

    OK, they have the reveillon on Christmas Eve, which is good fun, but they don't have Boxing Day as a holiday, and if Christmas Day falls on a weekend, there is no day off in lieu either, so it is really just more like an ordinary day off with a bit more food and some pressies, rather than the fortnight's revelling we have here.

    They do a nice job of Epiphany though, which makes up for it a smidge, with the Galette des Rois, and going round to people's houses and drinking fizz and eating cake/pie.

    Still not the same as the British extravaganza, though.

  53. deano30 A quick suggestion if you don't mind me saying, them devil lices are rascals. Many are actually resistant to the shampoos specifically for lice and now I don't think you can buy over the counter you have to get a prescription, I could be wrong though. What you can try is tea tree oil and or load of conditioner and comb and comb, but you have to do it for about a week it suffocates the devils and they can't stick to your hair

  54. BB - spent my last french lesson discussing our relative Christmas traditions, and I did think on balance that the Brit way is better! But some of the food sounded lovely...

    anyway - am off on the epic journey tomorrow, so won't be around much. would like to wish all and sundry a very happy Christmas and best wishes for the new year.

    [sound of jingle bells and singing]

  55. Happy Happy Crimbo, Pip! I hope you have a wonderful time with all your friends and family.

    I was hoping I might be able to make it to the pub on Monday but it is looking increasingly unlikely now. Long story short, problems with my Dad which are requiring increasing attention.

    Hugz x

    (Yes reveillon food is bloody lovely btw - lobster, oysters, foie gras (evil but lovely), unusual roasts like wild boar or venison, etc.)

  56. Joyeux Noel, phil!

    Blimey, that job at the Eu's mine for the asking, isn't it?

    @gandolfo - it's a long story, funny in parts, tragic in others, and never short of self-aggrandising whining from international playgirls who sneer at the little people.

    Your comment about going to Tesco's to complain about Sainsburys was quality, btw, and goes right to the heart of the issue. Except that the refs would have gone over some heads, going to Harrods Food Hall to complain about Fortnum & Masons might have worked better.

  57. Christmas sure ain't what it used to be...ever since Kerry Catona lost the Iceland gig really...all downhill since then for me. How's some chubby Nolan sister gonna get the party spirit flowing?..I ask ya!

    Speaking of Iceland. Can anyone let me know if you've gotta use a fish fork when serving a prawn ring? Maybe CIF could start an etiquette Q&A blog...there must be someone out there with the breeding, poise and connections.

  58. Oh yeah..who's littleman btw..or who was he..before?

  59. HankScorpio
    hi hank I did think of the harrods thing but thought it would be more grating to sensibilites of such a "classy" person to use sainsbury's vs tesco's given the insistence of the said poster to elevate themselves above all and sundry, personally more lidl versus kwiksave imo. Lot of projection going on with that one me thinks!

  60. Dunno, mate. But I'd like to send my valet round to his with a bottle of champers. Millymoll too.

  61. That graemephillips is a weird geezer and no mistake!

  62. Oh, gandolfo, don't be eaten up by envy and class hatred. Some people are just better than the rest of us.

    It's never too late for self-improvement though. If you can only learn to comment sensibly on the soprano's range in Turandot, you've every chance of swapping pleasantries with ex-world leaders.

    Following on from the Berlusconi attack, I'm heartened to know that karma for our corporatist masters takes many forms, and having to spend nights out in Brussels chatting with the mad catlady must rank right up there in terms of punishments.

  63. Yeah - I'm better than all of you lot for a start.

    (I could just eat some prawns right now. Curse you, Monkeyfish!)

  64. Welcome Gandolfo, btw.

    Soz - I wasn't being rude and ignoring you, just can't seem to get my brain to work very quickly this evening after spending hours in the bloody car in traffic jams

  65. Just gonna let you dangle there in the breeze for a bit, BB...

  66. Class hatred me naw..though thanks to your advice i'll stay tone deaf can't imagine anything worse than sitting next to that one on a long haul flight but then again i go cattle class not first so being down on the class scale has its definate advantages... oh and let's not forget being intellectually challenged and fratenising with the, i quote "taliban" will obviously not go down well..but hey i can live with it!!
    God just makes you want to vote for some clapped out nulabourist in the next european elections knowing of course that "Brussels is a small community" and that they would inevitably bump into the cat's mother and have to deal with that

  67. Hello gandolfo - welcome to the snake pit.


    No one who knows how/when to use a fishknife & fork would be seen dead using them on a prawn ring Dear boy, what were you thinking.

  68. Hi all. Sheff nice to see you back.
    Only a flying visit but just wanted to catch up on the last couple of days and see I have missed some fine humour. Particularly Deano's knockers suggestion and this "If you can only learn to comment sensibly on the soprano's range in Turandot, you've every chance of swapping pleasantries with ex-world leaders." Quite.

    I will have to check out the commotion over Cif now.

    Just to let you all know I did as advised by all and went to docs. Been referred to hospital as urgent so will be seen on first Feb. And have to go for ultra sound and blood tests in a fortnight-ish. Thinks it may be a gallbladder thing but cannot say for definite.

    MonkeyFish - that chubby Nolan sister has a lot of male admirers allegedly. Cant stick her myself - not that I actually watch her because Loose Women makes me want to chew my own arm off.

    Oh and hello to the new posters.

  69. "Urgent" = Feb 1st?!

    Good luck, PCC.

  70. Hi one and all BeautB, sheffpixie and Princess thank you for your kind welcomes...
    how do you do links anyone?

  71. Evening all - newbies & oldbies alike

    Haven't read all the thread yet, but will plunge in regardless anyway.

    Have a great time over the holiday, Philippa!


    Glad to see you & sad to hear you've been feeling bleak. Also sorry that you're legging it out of the country before me & princessc have had a Christmas preview of the CiF reunion photos.


    gandolfo's right - the unwanted lodgers can't get a grip when you use the hair conditioner, but 'cos of the growth cycle of the lodgers, you have to keep combing & re-conditioning over a week or 2. Swallow your manly pride & get a nit comb from the chemist - the fine teeth help to extract the eggs and dislodge the lodgers plus they break the little buggers' legs, I believe, which I don't view as cruel & unusual punishment as they're horrible things. I think that the chemist will still sell nit shampoo & lotions over the counter - it's a lot different from years ago (ie: doesn't have such a pong about it that even the dogs will leave home). And even with the shampoo / lotions / sprays, you need to comb and comb - yet another example of where the old ways, as used by our mams, are still the best.

    Alternatively, adopt an ape, which may groom your hair for you.

  72. See even that didn't work...

    prior to the instructions linked...

    type in one of these buggers < followed directly by an a, then leave a space, then type in href= and paste the url immediately after, then add one of these buggers >


  73. And if that makes any sense, then I'm hoping MF is paying attention at the back of the class, and not flicking bogies with his ruler at the snobby girl down the front...

  74. How to do links (2 versions, both saved by me after months of patient explaining by several people here!):

    1. Insert the URL (web “address”) and the title you want to give it into this template.

    {a href= } {/a}

    2. It should look something like this

    {a href= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CO7FPU7a2g} Dread Zeppelin - Immigrant Song{/a}

    3. Then change { to < and } to > and paste it into the Post Comment box. When you click on preview, it will look like this

    Dread Zeppelin - Immigrant Song

    4. Post your comment

    5. Save the template somewhere, so you won’t have to keep bloody asking ;-)

    *****Alternative version, also saved by me after months of .. etc etc:

    (a href=www.linkywinky.com)name of pointless link(/a)

    < instead of (
    > instead of )

  75. Except I didn't do the link for real, so the 'Dread Zep - Song' bit isn't linked.

    Tying myself in knots here trying to explain linkys. Where's thauma when I need her?!

  76. right i don't have arrows on my Italian keyboard or at least i can't find them at the moment too much wine and grappa I guess but thankyou Hank and PCC I shall conserve instructions...
    Hi alisdair...

  77. Sorry for the confusion yesterday and not properly introducing myself. I had not thought about the two different codes of conduct between the places.

    To keep it brief, I am LittleBoyandFatMan over there at the moment and have gone through quite a few other names, recently MediaFrenzy and globallyhooligans and gonzocarnival and No2NewLabourNewTory. Before those, I was Atomboy.

    I had said I would stop going to CiF but although I still do, it is only to fill in odd idle moments and I couldn't really care less either way.

    Just a bit of drive-by posting to sneer at the locals, really.

    Nobody can take the place seriously any more.

  78. Well, your version made a lot more sense than mine, mschin. Shame you weren't here ten minutes later, my poor defenceless laptop would have been a lot happier.

    So, let's try it out...


    yup,seems to work.

  79. Hey Sheff, PCC and MsChin

    PCC - hope you get your probs sorted. They can't be panicked about it otherwise they would have got you in sooner, so that is kind of a relief in a way. Any suspicion that it was the Big C and you would have been in by the end of the week!

    Hank - what? Oh.


    Gandolpho - I cheat with links - just do it in a comment box on CiF, then cut and paste into here instead.

    Oh, and I love the Immigrant Song - why Dread Zeppelin? :p

  80. Hi gandolfo, welcome to this den of iniquity.Some fine posts by yourself on Cif.

    monkeyfish, I prefer stainless knitting needles for prawn rings.

    deano30--Mungo still being obstinate and petulant is he? you could threaten to send him for a weekend with the 'Madonna of Brussels'. Cruel, I know, but could be effective.

  81. I did think it was weird Hank - but she muttered something to me about the Christmas break and that even if I went private (which I was not asking to do anyway?) I would probably not get seen till at least towards the end of January. She then said she would book it there and then, which she has discretion to do rather than referring me and the hospital writing out which can take longer. If it gets worse will have to take myself to A&E or something.

    Philippa - just read about your awful experience so just popped back here to say that I hope you are okay? I would need a stiff brandy after that!

    Sheff - just wanted to say too that I hope the break does you good and you feel less down after it.

    Off to have a bit more rice. Yummy. Nite my Untrusted friends.

  82. Atomboy - good to see you, mate (-;

  83. Fuckin Hell...Atomboy!!

    Long time no see

    How's things?

  84. Hope you get it sorted soon, PCC. Might be something as easily remedied as a food allergy/intolerance.

    Atomboy - ah right, Media Frenzy, I understand the "MF" confusion last night now.

  85. Hello, Monkeyfish.

    Not too bad, thanks.

    How are you two?

  86. Actually..now I look at your aliases..I have seen you quite a lot. Nice work as Media Frenzy..btw..always liked his..yours etc

  87. I'm universally banned for not playing nice. With me it's a roguish spirit..with Hank it's a deep well of despair.

  88. Yes, I would say I feel something of both those things. I found yesterday evening very cheering, though.

  89. Atomboy! Hehehe! Good to see you here.

  90. Hello, BeautifulBurnout.

    I hope you are keeping well.

  91. sorry got names mixed up mschin apologies hi boudican and atomboy aka littleman aka LittleBoyandFatMan aka everything else.
    BB I think i'll go with your advice and do copy paste from over there
    This bloody berlusconi thing is getting on my nerves now 48 hours of hypocrisy here on the news and I fear sooner or later they will be blacking out blogs and web sites they tried to incorporate it in a draft law last month but failed and all those commenting on "poor ol' silvio" should come and live in Italy and see how long their bloody empathy lasts... rant over...now back to prawn http://www.visit4info.com/sitecontent/LG/fullZZZZZZTVC071106094422PIC.jpgrings

  92. Don't listen to that fucker, Atomboy, he's a bad influence.

    Had my suspicions about MediaFrenzy, so why the name changes? Surely you weren't getting banned on good old inclusive CiF? RapidEddie nothing to do with you?

    "Nobody can take the place seriously anymore."

    Well, it's certainly gone downhill since I was banned (-;

  93. i don't have arrows on my Italian keyboard

    shift comma
    shift full stop

  94. BB

    Dread Zep was what my linky informant used as an example, I think because I was trying to link reggae choons on that occasion (and most others, tbh - I like reggae!).


    Soz, you should know by now that my timing is always amiss.


    You do have a certain (and recognisable) style!


    Don't worry - my neighbour & local practice nurse holds the Sheffield record for most unco-operative endoscopy patient, so yours will be a breeze. Feb does not seem 'urgent' to me either, but then again, not too bad when compared to 'next week' or worse, 'tomorrow'.


    Mungo is a bit of a character, isn't he? We are all enchanted by his owner's tales about dog (mis)behaviour and look forward to the next installment. Christmas day would be excellent. Preferably before deano falls off his chair, having been on the wagon for so long. Stoaty's story of heroic hedgehog rescue was also brilliant, as are his hedgehog home-building skills.

  95. Hi 3p4 naw doesn't work! thanks anyway!

  96. 3p4

    Right, Italian keyboard's are different are they? We definitely need thauma, our resident IT geek, who will provide a solution to dilemma, I'm sure.

  97. Alisdair Cameron

    Just checked the waddaya thread. I might well nip up on the 8th. That's if you're inviting banned posters etc. How many would that make?....2 of us?

  98. how about next to the Z key ?

  99. There have actually been a number of other name changes, but I tended to just change once I saw people agreeing with me and recommending me.

    Was it scherfig or olching who said they were going to take a break because they always knew what they were going to say.

    Anyway, they deleted a load of posts and I eventually made them publicly ban me - essentially because they are a bunch of halfwit lickspittles.

    Anyway, hello to gandolfo and everyone else.

  100. Hmm, my posts are appearing again on Cif, albeit after a short interval. Maybe they've moved me from the completely banned list to pre-mod - Guardian internal exile. Sadly, coincides with the return of rampant BTL misandry on the boomerang thread. Sadly, some people just don't know how to do statistical thinking.

    Re Guardian hypocrisy. Speaking as someone who'd describe himself a liberal more than a lefty, I resent the notion that the Graun is any more liberal than it is left, since it can't bring itself to oppose this astonishingly authoritarian government. On a similar subject, I was reading in Private Eye that the New Statesman won't recognise a union, and none of their impeccably left-wing writers are prepared to voice any objection. "The working class can kiss my arse, I've got the foreman's job at last" indeed.

  101. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    bet gandolfo cant do those ,,tildes

  102. 3p4 §§§§§§§§§§§ can you do that? or this çççç?
    And through the haze of self inflicted alcoholic stupor I've found them > < guess what next to the z I'm gonna send you a prawn ring 3p4!

  103. Off to bed now, chaps. Too knackered

    Night night x

  104. "Was it scherfig or olching who said they were going to take a break because they always knew what they were going to say?"

    It was Waltz, mate. Although she wasn't completely honest, given that she actually has two different but related things to say.

    She has two templates, one for social issues ("I have no problem with violence if it's directed at leftie maggots and the spineless poor") and one for international relations ("The West is entitled to use violence against Islamic maggots and other enemies of my people and their neocon Zionist friends").

  105. @ monkeyfish, I'm hoping more because a certain retired poster (username beginning with q) frequents that pub...

  106. @paddybrown - yup, sounds like you're in pre-mod. Siberia rather than icepicks in Mexico.

    "I resent the notion that the Graun is any more liberal than it is left, since it cannot bring itself to oppose this astonishingly authoritarian government."

    Well, it depends what you mean by "liberal", paddy. The Graun has always bought into the socially liberal shit, rights for all, down with discrimination etc. That's part of the "liberal" tradition. It's a shame that it's resulted in the ascendancy of middle class nonentities who make up the ruling elites now though, who sneer at the "underclass" left behind as an unintended consequence of their half-arsed commitment to "equality".

    Another part of that "liberal" tradition has been economic individualism, support for free trade, open borders, distaste for trade unions/collective bargaining/closed shops vs the rights of individuals (aka scabs).

    And then there's yet another strand of liberalism which believes that the market is supreme and that it is justifiable to bomb the shit out of dark benighted people in the interests of democratising them and freeing their internal markets and access to their resources.

    Frankly, paddy, liberalism has got a helluva lot to answer for.

    I wouldn't invest any faith in it, much less be proud of the label.

  107. Oh, and Atomboy/mediafrenzy/littleman, hello! Like your stuff: I even added your shortlived atomboy blog (what was was it 3,4 entries?) to my RSS feed.

  108. If it's "questionnaire", AC, he's a good poster.

    Disappointed to see that I've not been invited along to the Sheffield Massive's do.

    Looks like it's just me and BW flying the flag for the UT in the Midlands...

  109. @ Hank (wink) can't say (nudge,nod).

  110. AlisdairCameron

    Yeah, sorry about that. It was due to a mixture of personal matters and technical problems.

    I am actually in the process of resurrecting something on that front at the moment, but lazily and in a desultory, half-hearted, half-arsed way, which is probably the best way to go about things.

  111. hank

    Stone me, mate - we haven't sorted out a northern CiF do yet never mind issued the invites! I was referring to a more informal Sheff lasses get-together, again nothing planned as yet, since the 3 of us are all a bit down by the sound of it. I'll come to the East Midlands & bring sheff with me.


    Say hello to 'q' for us - I think he has some fans round here.

  112. @Atomboy - I thought the politicalnewsblogs thing was a laudable idea, just a shame that the political agenda wasn't made clearer and that silenthunter and fellow xenophobic loons turned up to spoil the party.

    Stick around here anyway and let us know what you're up to next, mate.

  113. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobster_Telephone

    how to give someone a prawn ring

  114. Thanks, Hank. I'll do that, but I didn't want to spill drinks and stub out cigarettes on Montana's carpet on my first visit.

    At the moment, I am scooting through Spotify and listening to Grandaddy and Joe Strummer and Patti Smith.

  115. Off to bed now, hoping not to dream of prawn rings ...
    Night all.

  116. Seeing lobster mentioned, does anyone remember the lobster incident from the Palahniuk novel - was it Survivor?

    Film recommendation (now I am just spouting random rubbish) Love Me If You Dare.

  117. Montana's a very easy going host, AB, so don't worry about the beer and cigs too much.

    Too old for spotify myself, but this is one of my fave youtube moments and you might not have seen it...


  118. Hank - fucking brilliant! Uplifting.

    Surprised to see Bru sort of half sitting, half sprawled in the audience, though.

  119. As far as lobsters are concerned, AB, there was MrPinchy, and then there was nothing...


  120. This comment has been removed by the author.

  121. @AB - give Bru some credit, she's sprawling strategically to read the price tags on her rivals' shoes.

  122. great links hank, and littleman that was twisted to spot Bruhaha but nevertheless well spotted!! I guess she was "slumming" it for the night darling

  123. @Helen - great post. Why have you removed it?

  124. Is one supposed to read every post one has missed here, before joining back in again?

    Or are you supposed to be the tough guy swinging open the bar room doors, nodding your head to the piano player, the card sharp, and the rich guy who controls everything.

    The bartender pours you a drink, so you drink it. Sheriff walks in and says "We don't want no trouble here"

    You say "won't get any from me", but your hands are on your guns all the time.

    Sorry, just being silly, hello all.

  125. princess - hang in there, february isn't far away. keeping things crossed... and thanks, am fine after odd incident earlier - although I did make myself a large cup of coffee as a remedial solution, which means I can't get to bloody sleep. that and the packing-based chaos reigning around me. anyway, ta - am leaving a note for flatmate explaining what happened in case they come back. and she is way more scary than I am.

    heh heh

  126. Hello hank - I removed it purely because I am a big fat wuss.

    No, not really.

    I took it off because I thought that it had enough time up to be read by those that may be interested at this time, and I didn't want to reignite a row.

    I was lightly told to "leave it" last time and don't have a huge bee in my hatski about it.

    Funny, perhaps I should have left it...

    Anyways, I may remove this post err long... Or I will fall asleep.

    I question myself constantly

  127. Clearly, I do have to read a bit further back.

  128. John Harris article making me feel physically unwell. Anyone else getting that?

  129. ooh, and hello all new people!

  130. Oooh and I hate conflict me!

    But according to andysays, posting ratm is trolling... (-;

  131. Well, I thought it was worth posting, helen.

    I always enjoy shoe-related posts(-;

    @Habib - nice one, made me laugh, and thought of this...


  132. yep it's a bloody disgrace philippa

  133. Apologies PhillipaB - [waves back]

    (though I have been around for bit ;-) upsetting certain belgian residents along the way)

  134. "John Harris article making me feeling physically unwell. Anyone else getting that?"

    Yep. Not read it tbh, Phil, but I've been dosing myself up on Benylin and paracetamol all day, which worked for a bit, but the third bottle of Shiraz is kicking in now....)-;

  135. I'm going to listen to your link Hank, I hope it's good...

    better be

  136. symon hill article, on the upside, making me rather happy.

    am still coffee'd up and can't sleep. damnit. have to be up early (kitchen a bombsite) and do things...

    heyhabib - you forgot the pool players. in that kind of bar-entry situation, there's always pool players. or billiards. or something.


  137. Ah, not really a cash fan - sorry.

    Was here though with my brother and it was just lovely. So upset he died..

  138. Having just noticed the time, I am going to leave this to the night shift.

    Don't steal things, the cameras are still on and watching you, don't cause explosions and if the place catches light, save the petty-cash tin and small items of office equipment before you start running in an orderly fashion to the fire assembly point.

  139. Hey PhilippaB (hope I got that right) - I will raise you the "have to be up" with a "have to be up and instruct a guy in Sweden in Visual Basic over the phone"


  140. Hi Helen (liked your post earlier!) and says hi habib with guns at the ready! this is a warning habib!! read them posts

  141. Helen - ouch. and yes that's right (although believe me I'm used to it not being!). Are you also an alternative identity of a CIF regular? It's a bit difficult to keep up sometimes...

  142. Groceries are bought, child is fed
    just in time for you lot to go to bed.

    How's that for a rhymed couplet?

  143. Sounds like I've been missing more Waddaya fun today. Going to check it out.

  144. the 'in praise of' article is about [drumroll] pies. think i may just have been a bit silly...

  145. Yes I am or rather was, I had 4 ids but whilst i have never been modded (cept a copywrite mod as I quoted song lyrics) or banned out of the 4, one has all it's post left (scientologyisacult), one has a tiny proportion of posts left(though it was my most prolific one and the remaining comments make me look like a twat - originalhelocat - that one was so long ago I think they lost some stuff in the move), one seems to have been removed (forgotten that one) and one i only posted maybe 3/4/5 times on (also forgotten).

    And I really should go to bed. My saving grace is I am working from home tomorrow - yay! And the VB call with the Swedish guy is at 10. I'll be ok.. (crosses fingers...)

  146. Hey, Montana - still snowed in?

    am worried that, having got so used to the climate here that I am currently bitching about winter in the south of france, I will freeze immediately on contact with the air outside Gatwick airport. have packed six jumpers. not sure that will be enough.

  147. heh heh - have only been 'proper modded' once, and as that was for calling austin mitchell "a complete git", I'm actually rather proud of that one. clearly i am a rank amateur next to some of our alumni here, but baby steps, you know, baby steps...

  148. Ooooh, better correct this one. My brother didn't die - he is still thankfully very much still here (argumentative soul that he is), I meant Arthur Lee of Love, he is an amazing artist, I love his songs, he was caught out in the US 3 strikes and you're out rule (is that still correct montana?) with possesion of dope, serve ten ish years, got out, then sadly died very shortly after. I was gutted. He was brilliant.
    Apols for misunderstanding. (Crosses fingers that my brother will always be here XXX)

  149. Hank, Cash is ,as always, welcome.

    PhilippaB, there's an old Terence Hill/Bud Spencer film where they say "It's better to shoot pool than a fool", but I can't find it right now.

    Gandalfo, I read the posts. All of them.

    Music time.

  150. Ah they shouldn't mod for a) (slightly autistic, forgive my listing/controlling tendencies)a well deserved and carefully crafted insult that is nonetheless totally accurate or b) satire. Not that they seem to have the slightest cluewhat that is.

  151. great I'll put my guns away :)
    Just had a rant on the editorial about Berlusconi can't stand the creep
    that austin mitchell thread philippa, I got modded when i suggested that he stick his new £79 kettle somewhere followed by the shower attachment! I was so angry bloody arrogant git.

  152. Right, my kitten is giving me mad eyes.

    Night, I'm off to bed. The kitten will happily warm my toes in the cold light of morning.

  153. "Groceries are bought..."

    How's this for a song, MW?


  154. Oh I gave up on serious comments on cif a while ago. After they deleted all my good ones but not the stupid ones.


  155. ps the kitten is not happy about warming my toes. that's me bad punctuation - my fault. i'm happy the kitten sleeps on my feet.

  156. Night all thanks for your welcomes and Hi Montana
    hope the dogs warmed my bed up a bit nippy tonight

  157. Maybe I shouldn't have checked out the WDY thread, because now I need a rant.

    What fucking feud? There's no fucking feud -- there's a few arseholes who resent this place for a variety of reasons -- most of them boiling down to their own petty insecurities and inadequacies. If that Brussels bitch thinks she's so much better than us, why the fuck is it so hard for her to just drop it.

    You know what really gets me?? The fact that she was the one who was totally out of order in her accusations against Monkeyfish and, instead of apologising, she started crying about some months-long torrent of abuse that only existed in her foetid little imagination. If anyone should have been upset with me for staying out of that situation, it should have been Monkeyfish. But that arrogant cunt seems to think that she can hurl outrageous accusations with impunity and buy her way out of things with champagne, chocolates and wine.

    And as for Kiz, she can fuck right off as well. She knows damn well that there was never a months-long campaign of abuse aimed at the Belgian bitch.

    I'm sick to death of keeping my mouth shut about all of it, trying to stay above it. They're both shallow, self-important cunts and this place is better off without either one of them.

  158. Hi Montana--A good long rant that was. Can be therapeutic too. Might see some interesting feedback. (-;

  159. Montana, long overdue.

    Kizbot, Bru, not taking sides, but you were taking the piss a little bit.

    If your friends can't tell you that, nobody can.
    I'd be sad if I'm no longer your friend.

  160. Thanks, Habib. Never heard that one, but it was good. For the record, I rarely expect anyone to take sides on my account. I'm enough of a grown-up to recognise that it is perfectly possible for someone who likes me to also like someone with whom I have had a parting of ways or never liked to begin with. Likewise, there are times when I like two people who can't stand each other and I don't like being put into the position of being forced to take sides.

    I'm just sick of seeing people slating this place over on Cif, harping about what bullies we allegedly are, etc. It's bollocks. The place was never designed to be a tea room, the people who came over here at the beginning were all people who enjoyed discussing/debating issues that we had strong opinions about.

    Tempers will occasionally flare. The trouble has been that some people seem to think that they have the right to set the tone and when the tone isn't to their liking, they flounce off in a huff, crying about the bullies over at the UT. Never has there been a concerted effort by people who are regular commenters here to pick on anyone, so the bullying meme just doesn't work.

    Bru's victim complex is wholly unwarranted. She has, almost from the first time she posted here, sniffed about the horrible men and how nice it would be if it were a 'ladies only' area, so the men around here have as much reason to feel maligned by her as she does by anyone else.

    I'm really mystified as to why all of these people who consider themselves to be morally and intellectually superior to us are so obsessed with us and why they keep reading and getting worked up about the place.

    As far as I'm concerned, Imogen Black and her friend are the only two people who've ever had a legitimate claim to having been treated unfairly here and they both received sincere apologies. It is rather telling, I think, that Imogen has been quite gracious and doesn't engage in any of the bitching about this place on Cif.

    Well, I think I've got that out of my system now. When do we start planning the revolution?

  161. Fot the picture at the top, here's a joke I can't believe they got away with fifty years ago...
    Lovely Lisa, where are you Lisa? You gave a new meaning to the leaning tower of Pisa...

  162. Habib, thanks for the tunes! It's probably been 23 years since I heard the Godley & Creme -- I'd completely forgotten it, even though I loved it at the time it came out. And when crying doesn't work...

  163. I need to get to bed, but I'll leave you with one last verb song.

    G'night, Habib.

  164. Thanks for the suggestion. I guess suicide is panless if your other half has already broken it over your head.