11 December 2009

Daily Chat 11/12/09

Llewelyn ap Gruffydd was killed near Cilmeri in 1282.  The citizens of Geneva repelled a surprise attack by the Duke of Savoy and Philip III of Spain in 1602.  Arthur Lewis was the last person to be executed in Canada in 1962.  Boris Yeltsin ordered Russian troops into Chechnya in 1994.

Born today:  Hector Berlioz (1803-1869), Pérez Prado (1916-1989), Rita Moreno (1939) and our very own Bitterweed, some time in the mid-20th Century.

Hanukkah begins at sundown.


  1. Best of the day Bitterweed, hope you have a good one and many more.

    Montana-- I see some crank on CiF (Richard Nous)defending the ice skank with all he's got. It won't fly with the majority.


    Montana, I have a few questions:

    1. Who was Llewelyn ap Gruffydd?
    2. Where is Cilmeri?
    3. What was he doing near there in 1282 that got him killed?

    …And Happy Hanukkah to everyone, even though it’s sunrise here now rather than sunset.

  3. Oh, and happy birthday Bitterweed, of course!

  4. @ andysays, wiki is your friend (sometimes), here

  5. Aaargh, Desert Island Discs repeat! Have switched to Radio 3...

  6. And Happy Birthday Bitterweed! ATL at last, eh?

  7. My brain hurts.

    There's a Bea Campbell article up, and, first blush, she appears to be making sense.

    The world is ending. May need a lie down.

  8. Happy Birthday Bitterweed - give us a smile!


  9. Philippa: Before I take a look at the Bea article that appears to be making sense, I want to take a guess what it is about:

    a) Bea Campbell finds out that 2+2 equals 4, or something equally unchallengeable.

    b) She admits that she wrote a whole lot of bollocks for the Graun.

    Other than that, I find it hard to believe she wrote something people here could find sensible ...

  10. Philippa,

    thank God I'm not alone. It's actually quite good. And as usual MaM has written a pile of vacuous bollocks about 'nationalised health'.

    But hey, he's what the public wants.

  11. AliC: Thanks for that.

    wiki is (usually) my friend, and so, now, are you :-)

    scherfig (yesterday):

    to be brutally honest (at risk of offending 7/8 of the 10 Untrusted who were nominated for best commenter (what the fuck's that all about - are we mainstream now?) I'd go for…

    Hank (also yesterday, but I’m catching up):

    At the risk of offending everyone, scherf, and as you know I'd only ever do that with a heavy heart, my vote would go to…

    Come on lads, is that really the best you can do?

    In the hope of offending everyone, and getting rid of the Mr Reasonable medal which is beginning to chafe a little round my neck, I suggest that the whole Ciffies thing is a complete load of bollocks, an end of year stunt to “bring everyone together” in yet another Guardian pseudo-democratic exercise of meaningless collective chatter.

    But maybe I’m just pissed off that I haven’t been nominated ;-(

  12. Wherever the photo of the top of the page is, i want to be there now. Where is it? Nothing stings the heart so much as seeing pics like that when you live in London...


    "All suggestions for new categories (pathetically) gratefully received, as are 'sponsors' for each award (e.g. The Max Gogarty Award For Worst BTL Savaging).

    I nearly called 'Worst Contributor of The Year' the 'Tanya Gold Worst Contributor of The Year Award' but I felt that was a little too leading."

    Like it, Eddie, maybe we should have hosted the awards here, then we could have turned it into the racuous, rude, piss taking marathon that i personally hoped for. CiF cant really do stuff like that, i spose, as they would be taking the piss out of their writers.

    We're not that far off a year old now, the UT.

    What was i going to say... yes, a book club, of sorts, or rather book section. As always, the difficult is fitting something in without disrupting the daily chat, but would be quite useful to have a section where posters could review books they;ve just read, with comments obviously, and they could say which other posters they think should read them. MFs recommendation of Sokal was one of the best reads of the year.

    Perhaps it could be at the UT2, might not even need any setting up, if someone finishes a book just post a piece on it, quick review, and is there anyone in particular you think should read it.

  13. Happy bday BW, too, i'm hoping for a birthday set of drunken youtube clips from him later ;)

  14. A book club is a brilliant idea.

    I've just invested in a Dutch translation of 'Ulyssess' so maybe our first meeting could be on the intrinsic difficulties inherent in translating Joyce into Dutch?

  15. Happy birthday Bitterweed.

    BTW, The annual get together of the Premature Ejaculation society is being held at the Stoat conference centre on the 15th.
    There is no dress code. Come in your pants.

  16. Whatever the origins of the Ciffies, it's now - as more than one commenter over there has already pointed out - just a database gathering exercise to pimp stuff:

    "Tick this box if you'd like to be kept up to date with offers and developments from Guardian News and Media Limited."

    "Tick this box if you'd like to receive messages from organisations screened by Guardian News and Media Limited."

    Strangely, no "tick this box if you'd Denis MacShane to self-immolate using a crème de menthe/horse urine biofuel mix" option.

  17. andysays
    YOU haven't been nominated ? Bloody favouritism. I've been in premod for five years and they only hung me up the right way yesterday.

  18. Oh, and thanks all ;-P

    BTW I now have SHED LOADS of reports to write before I poets it later, so may not be back for a week or so.

    Now. While I'm gone, try to behave... Ha.. Ha ha ... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!


  19. I’ve just had a visit from a nice man from the Council wanting me to prove my identity and thereby confirm that I am, in fact, the legitimate tenant of my flat and not, I don’t know, a dangerous terrorist, a wanted Nazi war criminal or Richey James from the Manics.

    After recent contributions here, I was ready to discuss the fluid nature of identity in a post-Baudrillarian universe, or debate the pernicious undermining of class consciousness by identity politics, but in the end I just showed him my passport and driving licence and a recent utility bill and sent him on his way.

    Does that make a class traitor or an intellectual coward? Answers to andysays@pointlesspostmodernism.org.uk...

  20. Book club would be a great idea, although I must admit I wouldn't know to whom a given book might especially appeal.

    I also once had an idea of making a blog about 19th century literature, for every year reading and posting about a novel which was published in that year.

    First problem, of course, would be where to start: 1800 and ending 1899 or 1801 and ending 1900. Guess I should decide whether the book most likely to appeal to me from 1800 appeals to me more than the book most likely to appeal to me from 1900 ...

  21. Ooh, a nineteenth-century book club! I'm in.

  22. Happy B-day Bitterweed.

    Jay - I got an answer from Amazon! Only took a whole week and about seven hours or so of my time. I finally have a label - yes a label - so I can send the laptop back.

    Thauma - cheers for the nod for the dogs. it was the other one Jake who needed the op. He is doing okay - bit traumatized and quiet but doing good.

    Colin - boom boom! Made me chuckle.

  23. PCC - glad to hear Jake is on the mend, and congratulations on the label! I think I would have self-destructed long ago - admire your patience.

  24. While broadly in support of a book club, given the high-brow postings of the last couple of days, I think I might struggle to keep up...

    Am currently reading Liza Picard's 'Dr Johnson's London', which is full of useful facts, but also non-sequiters, anecdotes rather than data, and written in a bloody annoying style. I doubt this would be of interest to anyone else, it's barely managing to interest me...

    If not UT2, I've got a blog doing very little at the minute (as, surprisingly, I am actually doing some work) - could put it up there if you fancied it.

  25. and princess - well done on the label and good luck to Jake...

  26. ...may he be chasing rabbits in his dreams asap.

    anybody else's dog do that? Minty used to doze in front of the fire and occasionally little twitches and whimpers and running-type motions would occur. always used to think he was dreaming of finally catching one of those pesky squirrels that used to mock him heartlessly in the local woods....

  27. Oh yes, mine chases things in her sleep all the time. She follows scents, too: you can see her nose going.

    She's also a very fierce dog in her dreams: while she's never actually growled at anyone or anything in her life, she's always growling in her sleep.

  28. heh heh. Minty also used to cause some problems when I was learning to play the flute. He would normally behave himself when I was playing the piano, but clearly woodwind was too much for his howling impulse to bear...

    It is very difficult to play the flute while doubled over with laughter.

  29. Good news on the dog and amazon, PCC, not a bad end to the week for you then eh.

    I didnt meant anything exclusively high brow, Philippa, literally anything at all, even if just fluff, would just be quite useful when buying books to have some recommendations and review from people whose views on things you are vaguely familiar with.

  30. Very amusing post from Eddie on the Williams thread, i recommend a read:

    "I should imagine this is CiF's belated response to the repeated calls for 'working class voices' who are bearing the brunt of the recession. So far, we've had a graduate bemoaning the fact that she can't get an internship in an architect practice and another telling us that he can't catch a break in a museum, gallery or auction house.

    Let it not be said that the Guardian is not there on the very cutting edge of social unrest and deprivation. Orwell would have been proud.

    I give up. I'd assumed that behind the countless features on the lack of social mobility and the depth of the recession, there was a slew of articles in the offing from people hardest hit. Not wannabe architects or directors of fine art companies, but you know, people with no third level education and no work experience, people from areas with traditionally high unemployment and people who normally wouldn't have recourse to the media.

    Instead, we have Tim. Perfectly nice chap who seems miffed that he doesn't have the type of parent bank that many of his friends from uni have. And yes, apparently a friend of Jess's.

    The depressing thing is that you get the feeling that the Guardian thinks these are typical stories of the working class experience from the worst UK economic downturn in 60 years. You can almost hear the proverbial Islington dinner party conversations in 2013: don't talk to me about the recession, Jeremy's lad couldn't get into a brokerage for love or money and Fiona's Aga was on its last legs...

    Meanwhile far below the windows of Guardian towers, the great pyjama-clad unwashed go about their small lives, with their small concerns. But then they don't have fascinating stories to tell of galleries and globetrotting, eccentrics and seagulls. Screw 'em."

  31. princess,

    very good comment on WADYYA and you're the ATL lady for the job.

    This request for real people ATL is a recurring theme on CiF to which they 'sling a deafie' to ('to ignore something' for all you non-Glaswegians out there).

    The Guardian never seem to wake up to certain facts until the middle classes are affected. Unemployment and financial struggle is a case in point (Tim Williams anyone) and also the criminal justice system.

    Simon Jenkins article is an interesting one in that he seems to address matters now that the statute book is filling up with laws that affect the middle classes.

    The elephant in the room is the appalling prison and rehabilitation system that we have at the moment. Whilst stuffing evidence up MoveanyMountain's arse on the thread, this publication the Bromley briefings makes for horrifying reading.

    It's a socio-economic analysis of the background of prisoners and the access they have to rehabilitation after prison etc. Needless to say, the homeless, mentally ill, chronically unemployed and the most disadvantaged in society are overwhelmingly over-represented.

    When was the last time you read about this in the Graun? It's a fucking appalling state of affairs.

    We can spend trillions on the bankers but only 19% of prisoners get accomodation/housing advice on leaving prison for instance

    We could start to take back some of the agenda on CiF BTL by bringing back some of the old class warriors, those BTLers who could address the real issues with our society, flame the Tory trolls and get some real debate going.

    So Graun, for starters, here it is again because I know you CiFfer people are reading. Having MaM as winner is such a titter isn't it? Your site is overwhelmed by Tory trolls, so for starters to get yourself relevant to the real world we live in:

    Reinstate monkeyfish and Hank Scorpio.

    I'm away for a lie down.....

  32. crossposts there Jay!

    Whilst I was working on my rant you've brought up almost exactly the same points.

  33. So - county winners v MCC will be in Abu Dhabi. What?
    Abu Dhabi? I realise that Lords has moved about a bit over the years, but that's just ridiculous.
    And pink balls? now they're just taking the piss.

    Come, fellow cricket-lovers! To the bar! sorry, barricades!

  34. Great minds, Duke, great minds...

  35. Jay, I got my spew of bile out just in time for the article itself to disappear off the CiF main page completely. This despite the fact that it has more comments - and is still going strong - than 4 of the top 5 articles on the Most Commented List.

    Savaging of Sarah Palin? Up there at the top. Savaging of Tim Williams? Let's let that one slide into the CiF annals, shall we?

    If Mr LaLa is in fact Tim's dad, then it's a spectacular slapdown. Tim comes out of it looking like a self-indulgent twat who's pissed the family money away on follies and vanities. Although I share Habib's suspicion that we're being played, in order to keep the comments flowing.

    Gogarty's only mistake was to retire hurt after his initial article - he could have kept posting and taken us day by painful day through every breath of his adventure. I would have loved to have seen his radical take on the Koh Phangan Full Moon Party.

    Perhaps Tim can become our foppish correspondent from the front of the recession. A hushed nation holds its bladder in expectation.

  36. I still pray that one day Gogarty will come back with a "my side of the story" article. Poor kid. When he got it up i bet he texted all his chums, put a note on his facebook update, "check it, guys, I'm totally writing on the Guardian!"

    His smugness must have disintegrated very, very rapidly, and turned into a living nightmare.

    If i had been on the end of that savaging my friends would not drop it till the day i died..

    Gogarty, what a bloody classic.

  37. 'Although I share Habib's suspicion that we're being played, in order to keep the comments flowing.' It's not a scam, RapidEddie. Jessica Reed and Tim Williams are mutual friends on each other's Facebook. I guess they just didn't reckon on Tim's dad turning up to put the cat among the seagulls. It's good old Guardian nepotism when it's best. Despite the clamour for more 'working class' voices ATL, Jessica does her mate a favour and bungs him £80 for a load of irrelevant bollocks. btw Jessica turned up on the thread at the start to support her mate, but there has been a deafening silence from her since.

  38. Thauma - if your dog is the one that used to be in your pic she is a beauty!

    13th Duke - you are so right about re-instating Hank et al. It would make the place so much more interesting. I would love to see one of them take on idiots like MAM and mall him or her into oblivion! I cannot write 'atl' or anywhere - in any official capacity - as I will immediately lose any money and be frog marched to jail or something. So I will have to remain an amateur ranter until well (I would also be pretty unreliable as sometimes spend days in bed). But thankyou!

    Jay - "You can almost hear the proverbial Islington dinner party conversations in 2013: don't talk to me about the recession, Jeremy's lad couldn't get into a brokerage for love or money and Fiona's Aga was on its last legs..." just brilliant. In fact you should be asked to do a parody of such for the xmas atl. Doubt it will be allowed though!

    13th Duke re the prison report. One of my old tutors on the PGCE (that I was forced to do by the Uni - yeuch) was a prison educator. He always used to say that prisons are full of the mad, bad and sad. With most of the inmates being mad and sad and very few of the truly bad.

    Jesus I really hate this fucking government! Spineless shits picking on the most vulnerable and letting crooks and fraudsters get away with murder. (Sorry just had to get that out.)_

  39. ""You can almost hear the proverbial Islington dinner party conversations in 2013: don't talk to me about the recession, Jeremy's lad couldn't get into a brokerage for love or money and Fiona's Aga was on its last legs..."

    That was Eddie, PCC, i was just quoting him cos it was very funny, but i'd happily see Eddie ATL, and it'll be a cold day in hell before i ever get an invite.

    What do you do for work, if you dont mind me asking, you a teacher?

    I was considering teaching myself, still am, but not sure if i have the patience, would just start ranting at the little bastards i think...

  40. "Jesus I really hate this fucking government!"

    Just imagine seeing the oily little faces of Dave and Boy George lecturing you about their latest privatisation, coming to us all 2010.

  41. http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/filmblog/2009/dec/11/hobbit-lord-of-the-rings

    No comments, we all know what happened last time, just read, you know who you are.

  42. I've read it, Jay. Hard to see how they can make such a short book into 2 three hour films.

  43. princess,

    I cannot write 'atl' or anywhere - in any official capacity - as I will immediately lose any money and be frog marched to jail or something.

    Happily I have the solution and now is as good a time to reveal it to the world. I have set up my own political party, dubbed the new ''fourth way'' of British politics.

    My new party:

    Action For Beer or AFB for short is led by a leader as incorruptible as Robespierre, as virtuous as a vestal virgin and as charismatic as an IMF report into soy production in Papua New Guinea or me for short.

    My manifesto for the 2010 election is as follows:

    1. All the donations and sponsorship I receive between now and 2010 will be spent down my local boozer and offie.

    2. That's it.

    As you can see the honesty part is groundbreaking for the UK political scene and I'm expecting a call from Graun towers for an interview. Or Cif can put the AFB ATL, whatever they want.

    So princess, your 80 quid donation would see me right for a few leffes and chimays this evening. I'll even make you a 'pathfinding stakeholder' if you want. Alternatively I can buy you a malibu and coke. It's your choice.

  44. Tempting Duke, very tempting, a bold new political direction. And a slightly less shallow moral underpinning than either NewLab or the Tories, a touch more heavyweight...

    Scherf - seems crazy to me, the book really is short, i read it a few months ago, had forgot how short it was.

  45. Jay

    Speaking of the lack of voice given to people who are bearing the brunt of the recession, I've just heard about this.

    Angela Smith has prioritised "recession support" by cutting vital funding from the Campaigning Research Programme, which was already promised to groups which had bid for it. The Minister for the Third Sector has "taken the decision to transfer the £750,000 allocated .. to the Hardship Fund". The latter gives "grant support to larger third sector organisations .. delivering front line services to the most vulnerable and disadvantaged people in society".

    So while the govt makes political capital out of the help it claims its providing for those most in need, a small local advocacy group for people with learning difficulties led by people with learning difficulties, obviously doesn't matter. Despite all their hard work, they've lost their funding overnight. And lost out to bigger charities & groups which can shout louder.

    The members of this group are asking why MPs and bankers can have so much, with their duck houses and big bonuses, but they, as people with learning difficulties, can't have a few thousand quid for something which is making a huge difference for them.

    Personally, I'm disgusted at the arrogance of a Minister for the Third Sector who can be so bloody patronising in her fob-'em-off explanation to some of the most disavantaged people in society, effectively telling them that they are less important than others.

  46. You've got my support, Duke. I'm assuming that you will 'remember' all your old friends when you come to power ;o). I bags head of the new quango which will conduct an in-depth investigation into the price and quality of pies and beer in the UK's public houses. (Full report to be published 2020)

  47. 0/ - everybody.

    A belated hello and welcome to the large number of quality posters who have joined/rejoined UT in the last few weeks. The place is all the stronger and interesting for your contributions.

    PrincessCC - glad to read the dog is doing ok. (My oldest Miss Diesel of Southfield had her 100th birthday recently! More about that later)

    I'm especially glad to see Stoaty and Andy back in the fold.

    I hope that if Swiftyboy and Vari the mother of my hon grandkids are still reading here that they too will rejoin the fray. You are both missed and I can't imagine that you are appreciated half as much anywhere else.

    Good to see that Montana and Hank share my view that rednorth is worth a read. Perhaps some of our quality posters could drop him an invite to join us here at UT?

    Stoaty - I like the look of your pic of daughter and her man taking the air. Any chance of you posting a decent sized photo over on your blog?

    Sheff/Msc I have to say I shared your views re the the question of dance and the revolution - life without a jig ain't much fun in my book!

    PhilB - even if I can't spell your name your posts have made great reading for a lurker.

    thauma (or miss whiplash as you have come to be known in my absence) - thanks for your good wishes for "... a commune..." with my late friend when I went on leave a few weeks ago.

    This very day a year ago was when we met for our final time together. It was then that the finest and bestist of my man friends said " ...deano I fear you will have to start drinking for two...."

    He wasn't a defeatist but he seemed to know that his time was running out faster than we all had hoped. He finally left in Feb.

    I like to think that I have done the wild wanker proud over the last 12 months. That said my liver finally started to weep a few weeks ago and I had to take a rest.... Still I feel I can now return to my more normal immodest levels of consumption in future without any guilt or sense of betrayal. At times in the last year I have felt like I was drinking for three! He was a big man.

    I really did adore him and have a quite sadness at his passing for I won't know his like again. I am nevertheless proud to report that he fulfilled his life's ambition - namely to reach the grave without the necessity of ever having grown up! God bless the old tosser (or as we say in Yorks may he walk with with Odin)

    Amazing snow Montana! I've just enjoyed three sunny and mild days here in E Yorks. They felt oddly spring like.

    If I can persuade myself to stop being a lurker, which I have rather come to enjoy a lot in the last few weeks, I'll rejoin you all soon.

    Regards deano.

  48. MsChin,

    thank God that the piglets I got from Jay and Bitterweeds litter in deepest Essex are currently being trained in the torture techniques used by the French Army in Algeria as well as attending a crash course in guillotine usage.

    It's what our political 'devoid of' class need and deserve.

  49. Duke

    As an (almost) non-drinker, I think I'll just watch.


    I can evaluate your investigation, thereby extending the project to 2025.

  50. scherf,

    consider yourself my 'Pie Tsar'.

    The beer is left to me but there will be room for special advisers on the COBRA emergency planning committee. Essentially washing down a cuury with cobra beer.

  51. Well, I've got the afternoon off. Told my boss today is Bitterweed Day and a holy one for myself and my co-religionists. He muttered something about me never doing any work on Friday afternoons anyway...

    It's not all bad, this multiculturalism.

  52. deano

    I think I can speak for all here on this occasion - we missed you & welcome back.

  53. MsChin - that is a disgrace! And just makes me even angrier.

    Eddie and Jay sorry for the mix up. Jay you will get to write above if you win the Ciffies thing. If you did and you get to choose you could start to write about the PFI scandal. And yes the faces of Georgey Boy and Cameron (shiny and particularly repulsive faces) will make me ill. And that is why I hate New Lab even more for paving the way for the fuckers so brilliantly.

    13th Duke - Can I take the Malibu and Coke? You took me right back there. Not had Malibu for years. But when I was fifteen I went to Majorca with a friend on holiday and her parents allowed us to go out clubbing every night. Cheap Malibu and Spanish boys - we were in heaven. I brought my granddad some back I was so enamored with it and not knowing what to do with it he used to put it in his coffee after tea! Revolting. I have much more class tastes now though so it might have to be a Taboo and lemonade - if you don't mind.

  54. Duke

    I've never tried a cuury. Do you have a recipe?

  55. Thanks, mschin. That is much appreciated - it will be an extremely complex and exhaustively researched piece of work.

  56. hello deano! welcome back, and best wishes to Miss Diesel

  57. @BB - I hope the lodger gets to stay with you over xmas if he can't be with his own. I'm sure that he will have a memorable Christmas if he does.

    You really are a star and to think I once swore that I would push any lawyer that I came across down the stairs (or under the tube train) if I ever got the chance.

    You really are an influence for the good of humanity. Like Hank I have come to see the error of my ways. I will now push any lawyer, except BB, under a train. Thank you for helping me progress.

  58. scherfig

    Exhaustively being the operative word, eh?


    Angry, yes. Because the people with learning difficulties in this group put hours & hours of work into their funding bid, as they do everything through a process of informed decision-making & consensus. Support workers explain how it all works and then support the individuals & group in deciding what they want to do & how to go about it. They were so elated to get the funding, knowing that they got it through their own efforts, and I can't describe how sad and angry they are that its been snatched away in this fashion.

  59. MsChin,

    why aare youu taaking the miickey oout of my doouuble voowel syndroome?

  60. @ scherfig and the 13thDuke.
    Re: pies. Heard on Radio 5 that whatever snooker tournament is on at the mo, is sponsored by Pukka Pies, and the winner, besides a cheque, will receive their body-weight in pies.

  61. Duke

    Sorry, m'wotsit, will try harder next time.


    You might not be allowed to post from jail, so make sure there are no witnesses when you push said professionals (excepting BB) under said mode of transport.

  62. their body-weight in pies

    An interesting concept. As you eat the pies, your body weight will increase and you will get more pies and as you eat them your body weight will increase and you will get more pies and .....
    It's like Zeno's arrow paradox.

  63. Alisdair,

    it's just as well for them that Bill Werbenuik is no longer around or they'd be declaring bankruptcy.

  64. rednorth rather epic on Austin Mitchell's frankly offensive article. talktotheflowers looks like s/he'd be good ATL on unemployment as well, someone else to recommend.

  65. Until you popped, that is. I kinda think they just take the winner's bodyweoght when the last ball is potted and stop there, but an ever-expanding snooker player's a neat concept.

  66. @ BW - if perchance you call back before going on leave ... "Happy Birthday friend"

  67. Yes, Bill Werbenuik. 25 stone of snookery shenanigans.A man who got his beer bill offset against his tax (true) claiming he needed 10 pints a session of snooker on medical grounds.
    How many pies = 25 stone?

  68. take the winner's bodyweight when the last ball is potted

    Yeah, that's a shame. It would still be a tremendous incentive to retain the title the following year. A lot more pies up for grabs!

  69. Well, I've just called a sitting member of parliament a git. i wouldn't normally go in for that kind of thing, but i am struggling to feel too bad about it. it was sort of cathartic.

  70. ". In America she (Knox) might have been executed even if innocent, for while 130 people since 1973 have been released from death row after having their innocence established, there are bound to have been others who were also innocent but not so lucky."

    A sobering statistic from Chancellor's CiF piece!

  71. "Like Hank, I have now come to see the error of my ways..."


    Welcome back, you old curmudgeon!

  72. Deano,
    Welcome back, I suppose.
    Check out blog.
    Will put photo of completed tomorrow as I haven't got a decent one.

  73. Did eventually get deleted from the Austin Mitchell thread, though my post stayed up for hours and got loadsa recommendations. Telling him to fuck off (amid a more eloquent paragraph)is obscene apparently, but his comparison of spivvy, fiddling MPs like himslef to those who've suffered extraordinary rendition and torture (approved by a Govt he backs to the hilt) isn't offensive...

  74. This is what I put:
    How bloody dare you use the term extraordinary rendition, an offence to all decency practised by your fucking Government, to describe your deserved comeuppance. Your injuries are self-inflicted through greed and an unwarranted sense of entitlement.
    Fuck off, I mean seriously to even think that offences against all human rights can remotely compare to you and your pals being caught fiddling expenses. Disgraceful.

  75. Jay, that Tim Williams is getting more objectionable and unlikely with his tales of how he just happened to get commissioned. I think he and the truth are strangers.

  76. AC - very good post - think the mods may now be tag-teaming the thread...

    I also like the PG13 version you have now put up.

    Flip you melonfarmer! as they said in the TV edit of Repo Man.

  77. "I think he and the truth are strangers."

    Surely it's better to be acquainted with Cif staffers than with anachronistic concepts like truth, Alisdair.

  78. Hank,

    you off to the principality to watch the two times European Champions tomorrow?

    And Hi Deano, it's great to see you again.

  79. MsChin - it is awful. It has actually really upset me reading about it. To think of all the trouble they went through and to just get it snatched away.

    Hey Deano - welcome back! A hundred eh? Fine age. You are right about Rednorth their posts are very good. Don't just be a lurker. Come along and post. You have been missed.

  80. Dear Stoaty, thank you for that most welcoming of greetings. Plainly your own recent rest left you suitably refreshed and unrepentant. All the proceeds of a sale on booze glorious booze...

    Wow a veritable gallery of work! (three of which we can see on the easel and walls over on your blog) Them looks class my friend and I hope you will post phot's of all in due course.

    Alisdair - I'll have to go read the Mitchell piece.

    Austin was once a media person before he became a (Lincs) MP. I thus use to hold him in reserved contempt but then recently I read a paper jointly attributed to him and Prem Sika (who I rate) which I referenced over on the UT2 piece by Hank on the tax evaders/avoiders.

    Thereafter he rose in my estimation (never, I might add, to the heights of the likes of Skinner) I'll be disappointed if he hath feet of slimy clay after all.

    First I must go do some shopping for victuals.

  81. Re the Ciffies, I've just read Eminem's contribution to Gott's thread on Pinochet. The usual fascist apologia.

    Nowt wrong with having the odd right-winger to spice up the debates on Cif, and MAM certainly asks a few questions of some reflexively left-liberal posters, but at times she (and I understand she is a she) expresses views as repugnant as any of the BNP trolls who craft their thoughts in crayon.

    I'm gonna have to think about tactical voting...

  82. Alisadir,

    just got round to that Austin Mitchell piece. Wow, one of the most spectacularly misjudged ergo fucking arrogant pieces I've ever read.

    Philippa, what did you say to get moderated? I imagine it was 100% the truth whatever it was.

    And a great post as ever from rednorth. As eloquent as he may be, I think he may be working class and doesnt have a facebook account, so don't bother asking for an ATL for him.

  83. Hi Duke

    Not tempted to make that trip. Don't fancy our chances and am off to see my laddo for a pub lunch and some quantitative easing (bloody students) and then out in the Queen of the Midlands to celebrate Frank Sinatra's birthday. And mine.

  84. And now I've had to do the same thing...

  85. Evening all

    Happy Birthday Bitterweed! Have a few for me!xx

    Welcome back Deano - nice to know you won't be pushing me under any trains now. We all missed you. xx

    Glad the doggie is OK, PCC

    General wave to everyone else o/

    Tonight, in loving memory of my Mum who died this day 6 years ago, I shall be drinking her favourite tipple in her honour. Cheers, Nance. xxxxx

  86. your grace, the original version included the phrase "You complete git."

    Bang to rights, really, but as I said above, it did feel rather good. Have reposted with what I hope is less inflammatory language...

  87. Alisdair,

    I just called you 'Alisadir', so unless you've become a character in Lord of the Rings or something I apologise.

    Just call me 'grauniad'.....


    I personally detest MaM's views. Not because he/she doesn't have the right to say what they have to say but it's the vacuousness, the complete lack of evidence, sweeping generalisations and the moral absolutism that gets me.

    He/she is the poster boy/girl for the unthinking kneejerkers on CiF.

    In terms of right wingers on CiF, PatDavers, WheatfromChaff and sometimes EvilTory are much better.

    Enjoy yours and Frankie boy's birthday tomorrow.

  88. Duke - yeh, Wheatie's a good poster. We used to enjoy a regular workout together. Pat is interesting, pops up on here from time to time and can be thought-provoking.

    BB - I've just raised a glass to your Mum. All the best x

  89. Christ that Mitchell thread's depressing. Like having a ton of shit dumped on your doorstep. Feel quite sombre after reading 'flowers's response.
    Good post PhilippaB. I'm really surprised they modded you.

  90. Austin Mitchell wasn't always so spectacularly out of touch. Here he is chairing Clough v Revie the day Clough got sacked by Leeds.

    The barely concealed hatred both men have for each other is fascinating.


    what was your Mum's favourite tipple?

  91. Fence - cheers. even MAM is swearing (although using 'decorous' asterisks, per another poster) at the sheer brass neck of it.

  92. Jay, by all means we can have any and all the Whiffie Awards discussions right here on the UT - I just put up the blog post to get the ball rolling and have a central point for nominations/suggestions to be dumped.

    Give your nominations on the daily thread and at the end of the day, I'll just cut and paste the new ones into comments under the main Whiffies article. For example, from yesterday, we have:

    Worst Contributor of the Year: Geoffrey Alderman (nominated by Hank)

    And from today, my own vote (with reason for casting) :

    Worst Contributor of the Year: Polly Toynbee
    There are less gifted writers out there. There are certainly plenty of less informed ones. But for a combination of a huge salary to so little effect, coherence and honesty, Polly sweeps the decks. There is no subject so large, no anger so widespread that it can't be contained, dragged into a Polly article and seen through the prism of 'Yes, but how does this affect New Labour?' For cheerleading when she should have been thinking, my vote goes to Polly.

  93. Thanks, Phil! I've got a feeling that BW is of the same vintage as me - 1965. If there are any astrologers out there, it'd be interesting to know whether there was anything in the stars on 11-12 Dec 1965 which might point to "lamentings heard i' the air; strange screams of death, And prophesying with accents terrible Of dire combustion and confus'd events..."

  94. Rolling Thunder?

    Courtesy of can't be arsed to link properly:

  95. How about:

    Broken Thermometer award - the worst failure to take the temperature of the room
    Nominees: Libby Brooks, Bea Campbell, and the newcomer Tim Williams

  96. Hank,

    so as Jagger/Richards would have it, you and Bitterweed were: Born in a crossfire hurricane while you screamed at your Ma in the driving rain?

    Is it alright now?


    surely Mitchell has to thrown into the broken thermometer award also. As most spectacular newcomer?

  97. What a week it’s been - world leaders selling us and our children out at Copenhagen, the announcement of just how much cash we’ve bunged the bankers, yet more revelations about MP’s expenses, and andysays not being nominated for a Ciffie. None of it really comes as a surprise though.

    It’s at times like this I start to think seriously about what Mao Tse Tung Said

    The Live @ the Astoria version is also worth checking out.

    I’m off out, so have a good night all, whatever you’re doing, and whoever you’re drinking to.

  98. Bb I shall raise a glass to your mum. What was her favourite?

    That Mitchell piece has just raised my blood pressure good and proper. I nearly exploded trying not to write the word that begins with a c - in my comment.

    Your Dukeness I am in agreement with you on MaM. If you ever read them on an eco thread they make your brain hurt. The sheer never ending wrongness of their posts - and I am not even some sort of fully paid up MMGW supporter. Pat and EvilTory are both good value though.

  99. Strangely enough, Hank, it's also my birthday tomorrow. I'll be 21 again (titter, titter). I'm hoping for some lovely shoes and a Scalextric set and a kitten.

    I'll raise a glass to you at 22.00 Central European Time. I think that's about quarter past six in the UK.

  100. Hank - finally, my Times archive sub comes in handy.

    The Moors Murders case was in the courts.
    Tonight's TV listings include Dr Who, Whicker's World, and Dixon of Dock Green
    "Luck favours Australia on first day" in the first Ashes test (Brisbane), although 3.5 hours were lost to rain
    "Mr Wilson's aim is Rhodesia's return to allegiance"
    And the 'costliest perfume in the world' (Eau de Joy by Patou, cleverly mixing up their languages) retailed at £3.17s.6d.
    The pound was up, wall street was up, equities were up and there were "easy conditions for money", although coffee futures were 'irregular'.

    Clearly Starbucks not yet active.

    ANyway - pub calls, have a good evening all...

  101. Oooh! Hank's b'day too? Today or tomorrow? Happy B'day!!

    Thanks for the kind wishes. My mum, being a true scot, drank brandy and coke :o)

    Mao Tse Tung Live at the Astoria, Andy?! Flippin eck, I must have missed that one! :o)

  102. Nice one, Duke...


    Think this one's more apt though...


    ..and from the Stones, we segue seamlessly to Gram...


  103. Duke - what a great clip of Austin Mitchell at YTV .

    He was actually better than I remembered him as a tv presenter.

    Having now read the piece over at CiF I have to agree with all here and second him for BThermAward.

    He may have become contaminated by exposure to that other N Lincs shit MP Elliot Morley the ex teacher turned spiv.

  104. 1965 too, scherf?

    Blimey, if God ever gets another crack at it, He'll skip straight from the 11th to the 13th.

    He might also like to think about skipping 13 October next time as well. Thatch and Edwina Currie share a birthday.

    I know that cos I was idly reading a paper in the maternity wing on 13 Oct 1987, trying to block out the screams of agony from my ex, when I read the birthday column, and offered up a silent prayer that the agony would go on for a few more hours. Thankfully, my son was born an hour into the following day (-:

  105. Philippa, I shall certainly give the Broken Thermometer Award further deep consideration! I think I'll also amend the list later to include yesterday's suggestion, now known as the Comical Ali's Iraqi Information Ministry Award For Denial Of Reality.

    While I remember, my own vote for Most Glaring Omission goes to:

    The Working Class Unemployed. While we heard of the hardships of trainee architects who couldn't snare an internship, we heard nothing about people with no job, no education and no prospects. The reason for their non-appearance seems to have been that no one had ever met any of these people at a party or in a wine bar.

    Honorable mention: The Death Of The Neets
    Every so often, a passing comment piques your interest. Someone mentioned Neets [young people Not in Education, Employment or Training] and the rising rates of suicide amongst this group, who are right at the bottom the social pile. A little more research came up with a Times (TES) article that said 15% of NEETs are dead within 10 years. If that's correct, it's an astonishing statistic and an amazing story. Unfortunately, these people wear tracksuits and aren't terribly interesting. Let me tell you about these awful people I met on holiday in Tuscany instead.

  106. "None of it really comes as a surprise though."

    You're too modest, andy. I was fucking gobsmacked that you weren't nominated in the Ciffies.

    So much so that I've resigned in protest.


  107. Leaked transcript of recent Cif editorial meeting:

    Matt: Any ideas, anyone?
    Jess: I've got a mate who could use the £80 and a nice little addition to his cv.
    Matt: Is he a writer?
    Jess: No, he's just a waster really, but he's got a degree, so I assume he can read.
    Matt: What could he write about?
    Jess: Dunno. Nothing really. He just lives with his mum and dad on a council estate. He's unemployed.
    Matt: Sounds good. Is he working class, then?
    Jess: Not really, he went to public school.
    Matt: Excellent! Tell him to scribble 600 words taking the piss out of sink estates and chavs, and if he can slag off his folks as well, even better. That'll get the BTL rabble frothing at the mouth. Should be worth 500 comments if he does it right.
    Jess: I'll give him a bell.
    Matt: Anybody seen Bidisha lately?

  108. Oh by the way Montana your clip of Cherry Pink and Apple Blossom White., at the start of todays thread, and then BB's reference to her late mum made me think of my own long gone but much loved mam.

    That piece of music was one of her favourites and in my minds eye I can still see her swaying and gyrating to it whenever it came on the radio.

    As the daughter and wife of a miner she loved to raise her skirts, at the back, and toast her arse on a roaring open coal fire in the winter. I can still see her toasting her bum in time to Cherry Pink and Apple Blossom White!

    Thanks for prompting the lovely memory.

  109. LOL Scherf

    Deano - your mum sounds like she was a great character.

  110. Just had some market researcher asking me a load of questions about stuff - such as the War in Afghanistan, immigration and electoral reform. As well as how much respect I have for MP's. Having just read the Mitchell article I had to say not very much! Lets look forward to new Lab's election manifesto being based on the responses in said research.

    Jay - just realised I ignored your earlier question. I was a teacher at the college and the uni locally. I taught at HND and Degree level. I really loved it at first but over the years the management got worse and worse. In the end it - along with the sudden death of my father - got too much. It made me ill but I kept going and going - for over a year with panic attacks etc. And ended up one day after a bout of flu not being able to get out of bed - literally. Got diagnosed with ME. Out of the people who worked in our team one has had to take early retirement this year due to extremely high blood pressure due to work related stress. The other had a heart condition that his doc said was stress related. One had a breakdown and two just packed it in.

    Personally I would not reccommend it. Unless you can get a gig teaching infants in a good school. I would not touch secondary with a bargepole. I was told to fuck off, called a bitch etc etc and they were students that supposedly wanted to be there. And it got worse and worse. Also the government targets make the job impossible. It is supposedly the number one job for breakdowns in the UK - more people who are teachers crack up than do police or nurses or firefighters etc.

    I am glad to be out of it now. What area would you go into? I do just have to add after my very negative comment that I have a friend still in it who loves it and she teaches secondary.

  111. RapidEddie,

    the two extra awards above- Brilliant. On the money. Spot on. Bingo.

    That TES article is horrifying. With that prison reform trust article I posted earlier and now this I sometimes think we're living in 1849 2.0 not 2009.

    Scherfig, you must SURELY have been at that meeting.


    the clip is brilliant isn't it? Clough in his pomp, Revie at his disingenous best and Mitchell very good.

  112. BB - brandy and coke. The king of drinks! Especially with a nice glug of Metaxa.

  113. Bloody hell, RapidEddie, that NEETS article is appalling.

    I see a lot of them in the criminal justice system. Never had a chance in life, no hope of work, no family support, nothing to look forward to except getting off their face. Breaks my heart.

  114. Just read the link, Eddie. 15% of 16-25 y-o NEETs from ten years ago are now dead. That's a fucking shocking statistic. A damning indictment on this govt, this system.

    If any of the UTers take the laurel wreath and get the ATL gig, I'd ask them to write about this.

    It's truly disgraceful.

    At least in the good old days we used to dress the cannon fodder up in uniform to prop up the capitalist system. And pin a medal on their scrawny malnourished chests and drape a flag over their coffins.

  115. BB,Hank,

    if you'd read MaM on the Jenkins article, IT'S THE UNDERCLASSES CHOICE, IT'S THE UNDERCLASSES CHOICE, IT'S THE UNDERCLASSES CHOICE, IT'S THE UNDERCLASSES CHOICE, FUCK EM. With no rationale or evidence. Naturally.

    Must share this topical letter from this months Viz:

    I'm beginning to think there may be something in this climate change after all. Four months ago it was very hot and now it's quite cold.
    Alan Heath

  116. 15% of NEETS die within 10 years? Shocking.

    Sorry to hear about all that, PCC, sounds like you've had a tough time. Complaints about management from people working in education seem incredibly common, and the "consultants" brought in for "restructuring". Sounds a nightmare to be honest.

    I was thinking of teaching maths myself. But having read your post i am definitely getting less and less keen on the idea, i just need something to do long term other than skip around bullshit companies skiving on cif all day - it becomes a bad addiction, when someone asks me to actually do something, and interrupt a CiF debate, i get very stroppy indeed, i dont know how i've survived at the current place so long actually. Pretty awful employee.

  117. Bloody hell working while drunk can really hurt you. Nice of the boss to pay for the beers though, great christmas party for the whole company yesterday - all seven of us rat arsed.

    Friday night. What music do you play when you're getting ready to go out? I used to play this one by the Streets. Reverse psychology, I guess.

  118. This Tim Williams thing is very funny, he just wont answer questions, some serious sidestepping and wriggling going on.

    Unless either he or a staff member pull something out the bag pretty soon, i think we can safely assume that the legacy of Gogarty lives on.

  119. This comment has been removed by the author.

  120. "What music do you play when you're getting ready to go out?"






  121. Jay,

    your last riposte to the Israeli troll on the Ciffies did make me chuckle.

  122. "you're last riposte to the Israeli troll on the Ciffies did make me chuckle."

    He's a funny little chap isnt he, at first he came across like a serious poster, i thought maybe i'd missed him because i dont bother the I/P threads much, how wrong I was...

  123. What music do I play when getting ready to go out?

    Hey kiss me I kiss you
    Kiss me I kiss you

    I know about you
    Been told about you
    Waiting where the air is thin
    Tiny holes....

  124. Nice one, Jay, La Roux is a totally new one for me. BB, Underworld is music for fighting to, if you're a teenage thug. Ahh, distant memories of being one...

  125. OI!

    Underworld audiences do not fight. Beered up twats at festivals who only want to see them for the "lager lager song" might though. :o)

  126. Fight!Fight!Fight!

    I mis-read that as "bearded up twats at festivals" and thought "bugger, does she know what happened to me at this year's Hay?"

  127. LMFAO! :o)

    Were you the one with the beard? :P

  128. Yeah i like that mix of the La Roux tune, i got a nice big sub woofer in my room too which always helps (not for the neighbours quite so much).

  129. *sniggers at habib's naughty joke - fnarr fnarr*

    I quite like La Roux, actually.

    Daft Punk roxx0rz, of course.

  130. Friday night is Chaucer night.

    But Jay, have a bit of pop bass

  131. that'snotquiteentertainment

    @Jay - you conceding on the po-mo thing? (-;

    Back in an hour or two...

  132. OOOOOOHHH, GIYUS is giving this place an absolute shit kicking again on the Ciffies.

    Anyone else cowering under the thundering blows or is it just me?


    trembled the cowardly Duke

  133. Tell you what, though, Jay. He is your number one fan... :o)

  134. Jay

    "...I was thinking of teaching maths myself. But having read your post i am definitely getting less and less keen on the idea..."

    PCC's take on the business of education is sadly pretty accurate.(My family are/were heavily into the business too). Chomsky I guess would surely have recognised the propensity to reinvent the wheel in education in between the alternative cyclic periods of renewal where it is simply renamed

    But two special things can be said about maths teaching and bullying educational managers:

    i) maths teachers were traditionally in short supply and thus less bullied; and

    ii) most educational managers are innumerate and are thus shit scared of those with numerical skills.

    Which part of the educational world are/were you thinking of going into?

  135. Duke

    Have you seen Waddya yet?

  136. Cheers for the tip off MsChin,


  137. Which part of the educational world are/were you thinking of going into?

    Home study for me, I think, deano. As a respite from the school of life.

  138. BB - you are right my mum was quite a lady. An early feminist with a fiercely independent turn of mind.

    I was thinking about her only the other day when you guys were talking about domestic violence and women hitting men.

    My folks weren't in way violent with each other and my father never kept the family short so that he could drink.

    He was lucky enough to be a very special kind of miner that always earned very very good money.

    By the time I was born the last of 4 kids in 1947 my folks had their own semi-detached house and a car. That was as I'm sure you know far far from the norm for a Yorks mining family.

    That said me dad liked his ale. In the war he was at home cos he was in a reserved and specialist occupation and beer was rationed. He always had enough money but it was no good since there was no available beer.

    Dad soon realised that if he took a part time job as a waiter at his local he would always be in the know about when the beer was available.

    After several months of dad being either underground at the pit for long hours or on fire watch or at his new job at the pub mum got pissed off at not seeing him.

    She got so mad she walked three miles through a blackout to the pub where dad was supposedly waiting on.

    She stormed into the pub looking for dad. In shock when he saw her he shouted out " Alice what on earths the matter"?

    She shouted out " Nothing's wrong. You've spent so long here I brought your bloody bed"

    She then marched across a full public bar, where women were most decidedly not welcome, and took out a frying pan and hit him with it.

    All the bar, dad included pissed themselves laughing, but not until she had turned on her heels and set off walking back home and was safely out of ear shot.

    She was a great mum and a special lady my dad adored her.

    She was born on a special street - reputedly the longest terrace in all of Europe. I 'll see if I can find a picture and post it for you. It's actually out there on tinternet she would have been so pleased had she lived to see it specially recognised.

  139. Reminds me of Andy Capp and Flo, Deano. Or a slightly better off version with Andy working for a living... :o)

  140. Am mildly satisfied to see that while I got modded for calling Austin M a complete git, somebody else has managed to call him "a colossal fucktard" and it is still up.

    Makes you proud.

  141. Just looking in and would like to add my best wishes for the much esteemed Bitterweed.

    May he live as long as he wants and not want as long as he lives.

  142. Oh-oh, looks like GIYUS has something planned for here on Xmas day. On the 25th please take the following precautions.

    Philippa, what was that weird and wonderful language you were speaking on Waddya?

  143. heh heh.
    seem to have turned WADDYA into a russian language thread.
    well done comrades!

  144. Thanks !

    "Collosal fucktard" ? Excellent behaviour. I saw GIYUS on Spooks last night, he was being played by Spud off Trainspotting. Well twitchy. And for good reason no doubt.

    Catch up soon you gits... ;-P


    (Let's rock.)

  145. your grace - that's the limit of my russian language skills unless someone wants to talk about hedehogs.



    I think xenium's post is "you know that GIYUS speaks the truth - why question him?"

    or it could be something to do with a carbohydrate diet...

  146. oops

    that should be


    yeyo yozh = "her hedgehog"
    you gotta love grammar schools....

  147. Hehehehe - excellent, Hank.

    I fought the law and I won today, though. I quite amazed myself in that I was partially making it up as I was going along, and still managed to win an appeal against sentence. :o)

  148. Hank, it's your party and you cry if you want to - I'm liking it muchski!

  149. Protect and Survive used to scare the living shit out of me when I was a kid. But now it just sounds like the bloke off More 4. "If you hear a gong, cover yourself with a ruddy blanket".

  150. Hank - thank you! when my parents 'downsized', my father took me to one side - would I be able to 'vinyl sit', as mother had told him to take all the records to oxfam? of course, I said, thinking I'd just need to set aside some sheelf space for the never-listened-to.

    beatles apple singles
    first pressing stones
    and that exact song
    heh heh

    it's your birthday here now - have a good one!

  151. "Living" channel on cable.

    Ghost Hunters
    Ghost Adventures
    Most Haunted.

    aka People Sitting In the Dark and Scaring Themselves Shitless.

    Why don't they change the name of the channel to "Dead"?

  152. Yer a gent Hank.

    Favourite scene- Renton and Sick Boy in the park:

    Sick Boy: It's certainly a phenomenon in all walks of life.
    Renton: What do you mean?
    Sick Boy: Well, at one time, you've got it, and then you lose it, and it's gone forever. All walks of life: George Best, for example. Had it, lost it. Or David Bowie, or Lou Reed...

    Renton: Some of his solo stuff's no bad.
    Sick Boy: No, it's no bad, but it's no great either. And in your heart you kind of know that although it sounds all right, it's actually just shite.
    Renton: So who else?
    Charlie Nicholas, David Niven, Malcolm McLaren, Elvis Presley...
    Renton: OK, OK, so what's the point you're trying to make?
    Sick Boy: All I'm trying to do is help you understand that The Name of The Rose is merely a blip on an otherwise uninterrupted downward trajectory.
    Renton: What about The Untouchables?
    Sick Boy: I don't rate that at all.
    Renton: Despite the Academy Award?
    Sick Boy: That means fuck all. Its a sympathy vote.
    Renton: Right. So we all get old and then we can't hack it anymore. Is that it?
    Sick Boy: Yeah.
    Renton: That's your theory?
    Sick Boy: Yeah. Beautifully fucking illustrated.

  153. Ace film. Got some good music in it too. ;o)

  154. Fencewalker,

    I know what you mean about 'Protect and Survive'. The bloke who did the voiceover went from being the voice of NUCLEAR ARMAGEDDON to the voice telling you 'Ugly Betty' was on straight after the break.

    Always makes me hanker for the simple certainties of the Cold War.

  155. fuck - now everyone on waddya is speaking russian. i do have vodka in the cupboard though...

    anyway - I do love this

  156. Happy Birthday Hank,

    I bet you any money there's a Willie Wonka style birthday golden ticket from Matt Seaton offering you a place back on CiF ;)

  157. NIght night everyone. Time to try and get some sleep. I might be back though if the lungs don't hold out. xx

  158. С ДНЁМ РОЖДЕНИЯ Hank!
    We want more music, deej!
    Mumford was great, PhillipaB.

  159. right - happy birthday GMT to Hank - am going to see if that vodka helps me pull an all-nighter...

  160. habib - neighbours will complain tomorrow but this is my 'last song' before R3...

  161. Oh yeh, Duke, the simple certainties of the Cold War...


    @Habib - this one's for you, dude, a dancing song...


    ...and here's another, if you're still out on the floor...


  162. Hank,

    it's a simple maxim: ''You don't fuck with Burton.'' A 24 carat legend.

    My favourite Burton moment is in 'When Eagle's Dare' where he plays the double bluff so well that Clint thinks he's actually a Nazi double agent. Ace!

  163. "I bet you any money there's a Willy Wonka style birthday golden ticket from Matt Seaton offering you a place back on Cif."

    There's more chance of Jonty Myerson getting another gig ATL than me getting houseroom below it, mate...

  164. Broadsword calling Danny Boy... Broadsword calling Danny Boy... I love the direction of the music. Is it really scherf's birthday today as well?

  165. "@Jay - you conceding on the po-mo thing?"

    I wasnt aware the ball was in my court, squire, but without knowing the details i would say its unlikely i'm conceding anything at this point, even when cornered i like to flail like a trapped beast until dignity requires the concession. I dont think we're there yet.

    I cant even remember where we got to to be honest.

    Deano - well i was considering secondary teaching, but having been there as a pupil less than 10 years ago i do find the idea quite terrifying, i was an absolute little shit and looking back i feel the utmost pity for the poor teachers.

  166. Seen this, Duke? If you're a fan of Burton, you need to watch it..


  167. "I can't even remember where we got to to be honest."

    Could the blessed Montana move all the Chomsky/Derrida etc posts over to UT2?

    "Broadsword calling Danny Boy..." - Where Eagles Dare is a cracking film, Habib. As much a part of the traditional Xmas as a tin of Quality Street and a face-off between father and son.

  168. Richard Burton's Finest Performance

    The BBC Radio recording of which is available on CD and is great Christmas present if you love Dylan as much as I do.

  169. "I love the direction of the music."

    Ok, Habib, you'll like this one...


    ...and this one...


  170. Jay

    It's a long time since I worked in Education so I'm not totally up-to-date but until recently at least it used to be the case that those capable of teaching Maths in secondary could get special financial support to train.

    Even in some cases getting accelerated or on the job training sometimes with decent pay (rather than a grant. Check with your LEA or local teacher training college (usually a dept in the local uni these days) for the latest position. And then double check what the tossers tell you elsewhere - there are a lot of liars in education.

    Secondary teaching is very much a young persons game in my view. If you and the kids identify with each other it can be fucking great fun. Kids who are wild have a tendency to identify with teachers who are/have been wild.

    Even a short time in a sink school can make you a better teacher in the long run - you can learn a lot down there.

    Male teachers in Primary if they can deal with young kids have an easier time and a more certain career path if they are ambitious. Male Maths specialist are in a minority in Primary but sought after.

    There is also lots of call for maths teachers in Colleges of FE (post 16 work can also be fun)

    Plumest teaching (but much sought after) is teaching 'A' level students in sixth form colleges!

    I wouldn't rule teaching out - you can teach a lot of politics whilst talking about the normal distribution curve or the statistical spread of income etc. And what 'messages' can be inserted whilst talking about the fantasy football league is nobody's business but yours.

    Everyday teaching and what is taught when OFSTED turn up for an inspection can be quite different things...

    If you are going to do it get in before they get round to change the rules on the pension scheme.

    I could see you being happy as an established teacher and then in a few years moving into becoming the NUT shop steward/secretary for a decent sized area.

    Teaching should be approached with Hank's (and mine) hero Arthur Seaton's words ringing in the ears "don't let the bastards grind you down.."

  171. Shit look at the time - night all.