03 December 2009

Daily Chat 03/12/09

I was going to do a standard Daily Chat thread.  Had it written up.  Had a completely unrelated image chosen, since none of today's events and birthdays readily suggested one.  But as I typed up the information about what was supposed to have been today's last item, it felt wrong to do it as just another item.


Today is the 25th anniversary of the Bhopal disaster.  Disaster doesn't seem like the right word, somehow.  Approximately 3800 people died in the immediate aftermath of the leak.  Somewhere between 8000 to 10,000 were dead within 72 hours and estimates of injuries range from 150 to 600 thousand.  In the 25 years since the disaster, it is estimated that 25,000 have died from injuries and illness resulting from the disaster.


Warren Anderson, who was the CEO of Union Carbide in 1984, was arrested at that time but released on bail.  He fled the country and has not been extradited by the United States.  The company paid $470 million in damages and less than $200 million of that had been paid out to victims and survivors as of 2002.  By contrast, Exxon was fined $5,000,000,000 for the Exxon Valdez oil spill, which resulted in no human deaths. Apparently American wildlife is more valuable than Indian humans?

95 comments:

  1. Evening Montana. You're right to focus on this disaster/crime. Corporate culpability and governmental complicity (U.S. and Indian)have been overlooked and covered up for years. Not a pleasant opener for your readership, but one that needs remembering. Bummer then as it is now.---Anyway, goodnight all,it was a pisscutter(sunny cloudless day) today and welcome too, after weeks of rain.Later.B.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Well put Montana. High up on Obama's to-do list should be an overhaul in Govt to make the USA's reprehensibly one-sided attitude to extradition more equitable (in respect of this the UK govt should be less f-ing craven).

    ReplyDelete
  3. Morning all,

    had a squiff at the Ciffy's this morning.

    IS.IT.JUST.ME.OR.IS.MY.FINGER.NOT.ON.THE.PULSE.OF.CIF?!

    Has anyone else seen the amount of nominations MaM has? Jesus.

    Alisdair, you got it spot on regarding MaM last night.

    ReplyDelete
  4. 13th duke and Alisdair, good to see some other early birds have joined the fray, the usual mob seem to stroll in gone noon....

    MaM has got masses of nominations, yes, a little surprising, think the whole threads been quite good natured though, regardless of who wins (AllyF) its good to look back on the year and lay down arms for a few hours...

    ReplyDelete
  5. MaM has a certain 'talent', I'll grant him that: it's an ability to have a rhino skin, be impervious to social and human norms (y'know like ever showing sympathy, empathy or decency) and to practice sophistry of the highest calibre. However, it's not an ability that should be recognised by an award, but more by ostracism.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Yes well done Montana. There was an item on Bhopal on last night's news and we were shocked that so little has been done. The item included an interview with an oleaginous Indian politician (with a portrait of Mahatma Gandhi in the background) who explained that there was not really a problem. Politicans like that - and their relations with the US - are clearly a major part of the problem.

    As for Alisdair's point about extradition, much is currently being made about the post-2003 extradition reciprocity between the US and the UK, but that's only because we are no longer asking for IRA men to be sent here; if the IRA start killing again, the US will return to its policy of not responding to British requests for IRA suspects to be extradited.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Good nomination by colinthestoat for best commenter. I already considered doing that myself; glad someone else did before me so I don't have to.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Jay/Alisdair,

    13th duke and Alisdair, good to see some other early birds have joined the fray, the usual mob seem to stroll in gone noon....

    That's because the rest of them on here are fast asleep living off the fat of our taxes through benefit scrounging.

    They normally get up after noon, switch on their ultraplasma 647'' uber screen tv and watch Jermey Kyle which they've recorded on sky plus. All paid for by yourself, Alasdair and me.

    BeautifulBurnout is the worst, she doesn't get up to way past 6pm.

    Honestly, flogging's too good for them. I hope when the Tories get into power they send all the poor and scroungers to Madagascar or something, along with the immigrants.



    Jeez, see how easy it is to batter out an ill thought out, right wing rant? So THAT's how you come out at the top of the CiF nominations. God it's easier than I thought.

    ReplyDelete
  9. I was going to say, Duke, they mostly work public sector, we should be lucky they log on before dinner time to be honest.

    The US, as i understand it, refused to even categorise the IRA as a terrorist organisation until after 9/11. Blowing up civilians is ok until it happens to Yanks. Then it is the world number one evil and multiple wars must be launched.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Been up since 5 and I must admit curiosity got the better of me and I looked at the Ciffies.

    Leaving personal likes and dislikes aside, the political perspective on the nominations is odd : ellis writes so well and often so passionately for the left, yet I can only see a couple of menshes for him, while Berchmans - who writes from a similar perspective but who seems to derail every thread he's on and is in effect the house troll - gets loads.

    Maybe it's entertainment value that counts; but then on the non-lefty side PIkey only gets a couple of nods, so that view is flawed. And it's not a matter of politics either as MAM (whom I secretly enjoy very much) has had loads of nominations.

    Marina Hyde gets quite a few nods, yet I chiefly remember her joy over some hapless PR guy which for me was one of the most unpleasant pieces on Cif this year. (PR people in the media often get sneered at by editorial - when it's safe to do so and they don't have connections that can harm the sneerer.)

    Have socialistmike and halgeel gone from Cif? I always thought Mike was a Spectator staffer having a laff and there was always something oddly programmatic about halgeel.

    In fact loads have gone whom I liked, exarmy and so on. Oh dear!

    ReplyDelete
  11. Edwin,

    exarmy is still kicking about. He posted quite heavily on a recent article on torture. I like him. I'm sure I saw SocialistMike post recently as well but I may be wrong.

    I'm also mystified about the lack of nominations for ellis (I was one who did nominate him).

    And this is an apology in bold for the delightful princesschipchops just to emphasis the importance of what I'm about to say:

    princess, so, so, so, so sorry about not putting you in my nomination, you were supposed to be there, I don't know what happened! REST ASSURED I'M YOUR BIGGEST FAN, SIGNED DUKE...

    ...''my tea's gone cold, I'm wondering why, got out of bed at all, the morning rain falls down my window and I can't see at all...''

    ReplyDelete
  12. Thank you your Grace, now I have Dido and the A33 in the dark in my head.....

    ReplyDelete
  13. Does anyone here remember the Ciffies fiasco a couple of years back ?

    A load of newbies showed up posting almost identical nominations for "Seumas Milne and Soumaya Ghanoush."

    It was hilarious, about as safe as an Afghani regional poll. The whole thing was abandoned in the end. Not CiF's finest hour...

    ReplyDelete
  14. Thanks Your Grace, am glad he is still about (exarmy not SM!)

    One for Alisdair from this sterling site -

    http://benlocker.co.uk/the-top-10-political-spelling-and-grammar-failures/

    In case my link doesn;t work, they say:
    'A sterling effort this one. Only this month, it transpired that someone had incorrectly carved the name of one of Scotland’s greatest living authors, Alasdair Gray, into the Scottish Parliament at Holyrood. It will cost £3,000 to correct the name from ‘Alisdair’, but that money will also pay for a brand new quote. Alasdair Gray also pointed out that the original, ‘Work as if you live in the early days of a better nation’ was not written by him, but by a Canadian poet.'



    And just to add the the gaiety of nations, here is a Chinese news channel on Tiger Woods -

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i5FlC1MpkE&feature=player_embedded

    ReplyDelete
  15. Delia's holding a 'turkey clinic' on woman's hour. ye gods.

    ReplyDelete
  16. And Boudican - bless you for your comment last night. "Question and Challenge" is something of a parenting motto for my dears...

    ReplyDelete
  17. Cheers Philippa, my mate Meleagris gallopavo's broken her leg, I'll get her to give Delia a call.....


    My housemate was watching Delia while I was making mince pies the other night, I ignored all her instructions, they still turned out alright!

    ReplyDelete
  18. Dot - for legs, she seems to be recommending a casserole. But fortunately George Lamb has been punted off the mid morning slot on 6Music, so I am now listening to Lauren Laverne.

    ReplyDelete
  19. 13th Duke - I am beginning to get a complex :)

    And as for this: ''That's because the rest of them on here are fast asleep living off the fat of our taxes through benefit scrounging.

    They normally get up after noon, switch on their ultraplasma 647'' uber screen tv and watch Jermey Kyle which they've recorded on sky plus. All paid for by yourself, Alasdair and me.''

    How did you so eerily and accurately depict my day? Just finished watching Jezza (golfball licker) and it was a good one. Actually I am more of a Matthew Wright girl myself. The political incisiveness is a thing to behold!

    Ellis! Knew I would forget someone good! Will have to add them even though seconds don't count!

    Re Bhopal, it is truly horrific what is happening still to the people there. Children born with tumors where there eyes should be - truly heartbreaking stuff. I was shocked to read the difference in payouts - it shows high low we hold the value of human life.

    ReplyDelete
  20. PhilippaB said: Delia's holding a 'turkey clinic' on woman's hour. ye gods.

    Hopefully the clinic will be successful and the turkey will make a full recovery.

    ReplyDelete
  21. on this banking bonus / threatened resignation thing, Lord Miners seems happy to say that the proposed levels of payment are unreasonable but not to give any idea of what would be reasonable. sounds like somebody desperately trying to walk a fine line between populism and his darkest inner desires...

    plus - is anybody else bewildered by talk of a 'banking community'? i'm just imagining their meetings in the local church hall...

    ReplyDelete
  22. princess: As the eminent commenter said on the nominations thread, where he nominated you (though possibly not in his first post, therefore effectively not nominating you):

    "She (princesschipchops) seems to have fallen in with a bit of a bad crowd."

    I presume he means nous, the Untrusted. Therefore you should consider posting hardly ever here, or risk losing BTH's esteem.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Philippa,

    ''community'' can be found in the New Labour bullshit, rhetorical, meaningless Nuspeak dictionary.
    ©Modernising Nihilsts Publishing House 1994

    In amongst 'cohesion', 'pathfinder', 'incentivise', 'engagement', 'stakeholder'.....

    Private eye has a 'communities' section in each edition.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Bankers, bout time they officially swapped the B for the W!

    Bunch of Parus majors the lot of them

    Speaking of which, where's that no witted mustelid today?

    ReplyDelete
  25. Dot,
    I'm looking at the ciffies thread and crying into my keyboard like everyone else.
    Ya fuckin' pinhead.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Not in the door 10 minutes and already well into my first glass of wine. That's the sort of day it's been.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Have just found Jay's highly recommended post on the Sagar thread. A good 'un indeed.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Elementary - well it is true that you have all led me astray. But I am having such problems getting online at the moment that my time here these days is limited. Therefore the effects may not be too toxic on my easily led brain!


    Why oh why is MAM getting so much support. Really weird.

    Re the bankers - there have been a few unsavory ones turning up on the bonuses threads throwing their weight around and telling everyone they need the bonuses like, cause they're worth it. You know a bit like Cheryl Cole or some other Loreal babe!

    Oh and that the rest of us are jealous, hate-filled garbage or as one nicely put it detritus - lovely. They are right about one thing I do hate em!

    ReplyDelete
  29. My rat-smelling nose thinks that many of the MAM recommenders are sock puppets. I've never seen most of them before.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Thaumaturge,
    Drinking already? you are not setting us a good example.
    Thanks for the nomination, pity it had to be with that scruffy columba livia.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Yes indeed, Colin, it had to be done. Sorry for lumping you in with the bird-brained.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Hey thauma, thanks for the big up for me "from the grave", haha. Now play nice ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  33. Just got round to the Sagar thread.

    ''WHOOOOAAFF!'' (as legendary weetabix haired Scottish commenator Archie MacPherson used to shout) that was a hell of a post Jay. Generation Warfare!

    Alasdair's post on the Fabians and cosied cliques that deign to rule us was also excellent.

    Also enjoyed the postmodernist sparring on WADDYYA and don't worry Jay, I don't want fisticuffs, I'm just fuming that you 'outpostmodernificationalised' my postmodern jibber jabber ;)

    Sheff, just saw you nominated me. Cheers. To say thanks, here's a compliment in Glaswegian, which, having lived there I'm sure you'll be able to translate:

    ''yuraweecrackersoyeurr!''

    ReplyDelete
  34. Awright, who is selfmademan? Anyone we know, perchance? Very droll, m'dear!

    ReplyDelete
  35. Thauma you know selfmade I'm sure ;-)

    Anyway, thanks for the tune - off for lasagne now, and catch up with last night's Spooks.

    That show's just getting sillier.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Evening all.

    "Delia's holding a turkey clinic..."

    Whereas Bindel is holding a turkey-baster clinic

    *badumching*

    God I'm tired. Long day and trains all fuxx0rd. Will potter about a bit and see what's happening on CiF

    ReplyDelete
  37. don't laugh, BB, Stonewall has a guide to 'home-insemination' for lesbians. I would try to find it for you, but we're about to eat...

    ReplyDelete
  38. BW - mon cher, pas devant les doméstiques: tu dis - er, slightly hints - que c'est toi, alors ? Ou bien quelqu'un d'autre que je connaisse ? Ah merde, Jessica pour une va tout entendre ! (Peut-être. Given the ropey French.) Et moi, je n'ai aucune idée si tu parles français!

    ReplyDelete
  39. Mr Selfmade doesn't pop up very often but he's very funny when he does. Is he you then Mr Weed?.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Re: Spooks - Rupert Penry Jones got blown up a while back, right?

    Only reason I used to watch it.

    [sigh]

    [more prolonged sigh]

    ReplyDelete
  41. God, Philippa, my biggest nightmare is insemination. (Not the *possibility* of insemination, you understand - far from it.) Really can't get my head around people actively seeking it.

    I understand this makes me something of a weirdo. But I work in IT, so I'm used to that.

    ReplyDelete
  42. my biggest nightmare is insemination?

    Oh dear. Nightmare visions now of thauma fighting off a giant turkey baster which shouts 'incoming' ...

    ReplyDelete
  43. You asked for it - "Pregnant Pause: A guide for lesbians on how to get pregnant"
    http://www.stonewall.org.uk/at_home/parenting/3463.asp

    Brace! Brace!

    ReplyDelete
  44. PhilippaB

    Brace! Brace!

    Isn't that what they say when they've got your immobilised with your legs in those stirrup thingys ...

    ReplyDelete
  45. Oh lordy. Not sure I want to look at that link.

    I will change the subject - heard some really juicy goss at lunch time about two police officers in the East End who have been disciplined for charging a bloke they brought in as a drunk and disorderly with assaulting a police officer. The drunk had injuries himself that he is alleged to have sustained at the time of arrest.

    Complaint made - CPS keep asking for a copy of the CCTV of the cell and eventually someone finds it for them after swearing blind there isn't any.

    Turns out the two officers went into the cell of the bloke while he was asleep, put a blanket over his head and beat the shit out of him.

    So apparently the disciplinary involved the panel showing the CCTV and then picking up the officers' statements one by one and saying "So you say in your statement that he punched you five or six times - would you like to indicate to us on the CCTV footage which punches you mean?"

    Bastards. I hope they get the sack.

    ReplyDelete
  46. MsChin - big belly laugh there! (Pun intended of couse.)

    Weird dream the other night: massive cyclone or something that was tossing cars around like bubbles, including one car right through the wall of the house, and then I found a baby in the house (which I think I'd forgotten about but luckily it was all right), but it was all OK because I could log into the servers and they were all up and running smoothly.

    Make of that what you will.

    ReplyDelete
  47. BB - the sack? Yes, that and a bit of GBH that no-one can find a culprit for.

    ReplyDelete
  48. selfmademan is truly excellent. The identity was blown once, when a selfmademan post went out under another username, but I won't spill the beans (not me).

    ReplyDelete
  49. Btw Montana - forgot to say - excellent post at the top.

    Nytol, off to bed now....

    ReplyDelete
  50. Sweet dreams, thauma.

    And should your dreams be less than sweet tonight, use a giant diaphragm. That'll stop the blighters if they get loose.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Alisdair

    Oh please do spill the beans - I'm dying to know....

    ReplyDelete
  52. sheff

    Yes, let's press for the sordid details. I like a good grass, as you know.

    ReplyDelete
  53. selfmademan is very amusing. A fitting tribute to the late William Donaldson.

    The Complete Henry Root Letters

    ReplyDelete
  54. I wonder if BTH was born with that stair-rod up his arse, or whether it has been inserted in later life?

    ReplyDelete
  55. scherfig

    £13 for a well-thumbed copy? Can I borrow yours?

    ReplyDelete
  56. mschin, sadly out of print now. A child of his times, Henry Root. If I recall correctly, he wrote an adoring letter to General Zia, President of Pakistan, praising martial law and capital punishment - and got an autographed photo back!

    Does nobody here remember 'Henry Root' - selfmademan certainly does.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Does anyone have any idea why Leni aka afanncdogge can't post on here at the moment? She has mentioned it a coupla times on Waddya. Any ideas?

    ReplyDelete
  58. BB

    Didn't fence say something along similar lines recently?

    ReplyDelete
  59. i always get an error message that says my post will not work,,i ignore it and repeat the "post comment" click and the second time (usually) it works,,

    ReplyDelete
  60. Did he? I didn't see it.

    Nasty side-swipe at princesschipchops on the nominations thread - something about "hanging around with the wrong sort" meaning us.

    The man's a weasel. I don't know why I still get annoyed by him, really.

    ReplyDelete
  61. except that time when it worked normal,,first time ever

    ReplyDelete
  62. 3p4

    Maybe that's it. Or maybe her log-in isn't working. Or she needs to clear her caches out or something...

    ReplyDelete
  63. 3p4 - I find the same thing happens, usually when I first log in, I just ignore it and keep posting, it gets through after a couple of tries.

    BB - bth is beyond all understanding - there is something creepy about him that I really don't like, he gives me the heebie jeebies.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Scerfig, William Donaldson was a very fine writer but an appalling man.

    One of his delights was inventing snippets of information in 'toilet books'. One of my favourite of such snippets was that Lee van Cleef was a noted collector of modern art - a monstrous fib I have seen quoted as fact.

    I remember a couple of years ago Any Amount of Books had the dedication copy of the Henry Root Letters for sale at about forty quid.

    ReplyDelete
  65. And just when I thought my self-esteem couldn't sink any lower, I've done something quite horrible and disgusting today.

    I did a "find on this page" search for my name on the stiffie awards thread. Nice words from some very nice people, but I have cheapened myself. Oh well, never mind... I still know me.

    ReplyDelete
  66. a very fine writer but an appalling man Yeah, Edwin, that's my recollection of him. Amusing stuff, all the same.

    ReplyDelete
  67. No, selfmade is not moi, unfortunately.

    By the way, *Roz* is the only reason to watch Spooks

    Cor. She's one hard bitch. Yummy.

    As for the "can't post here" thing - re Leni - you have to have a blogger id - takes about forty seconds to sort out...

    Unless people are kept from fully accessing blogging sites by their work firewall ??

    Thauma - you got the answers sweetcheeks ?

    PS princesschipchops "hanging out with the wrong types". lol. That has actually made me titter.

    Night all, hurly start fe me agin.

    ReplyDelete
  68. I only had a couple of posts devoured, not a general *Comment ist verboten*.

    Thauma: IT & fear of insemination. Have you been watching Demon Seed?

    ReplyDelete
  69. I've never been a "wrong crowd" before. Do I get a Vespa?

    ReplyDelete
  70. BB,,i think there is probably a strong conection
    between the police incident you detail above and the 'dramafied' list of paperwork detailed in the times story mentioned by you and chancetheg
    over at 'the otherplace',,(waddya)

    (this is 'the' place,,they are the 'other' place

    inspectorgadgets blog is one of my everyday must reads,,and i occasionally have left links to relevant guardian threads

    ReplyDelete
  71. that time i got the error message,,

    ReplyDelete
  72. I think bitey has finally lost it on the Ciffie thread. Very weird.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Fence - deffo a Vespa and a parka, mate.

    Evening Luke.

    Bitterweed - did you find the plug-in you needed for those mp3s? I wonder if it is cos one of them is in flac format...

    ReplyDelete
  74. heyhabib

    I would never do a search on the page! How could you!

    (I just spent hours scrolling through all the posts instead...) xx

    ReplyDelete
  75. scherf - that last comment about Stephen Gately was bizarro in the extreme.

    ReplyDelete
  76. Is this on the Ciffie contributor thread? I didn't see it?

    Not sure I can carry off a parka, but I will listen to Liquidator instead.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Bizarre, yes, but KillingTime came up with a cracker in response:

    'It's funny because it's true. My freezer's absolutely bursting with tramps. One more and I'm going to have to start taking them down to Iceland'.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Ah is it thread of the year? [footsteps trailing away...]

    ReplyDelete
  79. Sorry, fence - tendency to forget that the psychic waves between UTers don't work so well at times ... the thread of the year thread is where it's at.

    ReplyDelete
  80. ok possums - time for bed for me xx

    ReplyDelete
  81. Me too, BB.

    Happy days - it's Friday tomorrow!

    Then unfortunately I nipped back to the Ciffies thread. Now it's definitely time to read a nice book in my nice warm bed. Night y'all.

    ReplyDelete
  82. Gawd. Is he pissed? That's a bit off, even for him.

    ReplyDelete
  83. read a nice book in my nice warm bed I agree. Strangely, at the moment I'm re-reading A S Byatt's 'Posession'. Uncomfortably apposite.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Does OldBagpuss still post? I don't recall seeing him for a while.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Fencewalker, you should ask Edwin about that.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Just read the thread-of-the-year thread. I have no idea what Bitey's on about and I'm pretty sure he doesn't either.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Ahhh, thankee. It's like being at a Venetian masque sometimes.
    Well, that's all to the good. OldBagpuss was always worth reading.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Bitey does seem to be going through his "Herbert Lom" period at the mo.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Fence,
    Herbert Lom as Inspector Dreyfuss with the twitching eye and homicidal tendencies, forever missing his target? Or Herbert Lom as the arab who gets run over by El Cid's horse?

    hmmm...

    ReplyDelete
  90. Christ, he's still at it and the mods have taken to deleting as fast as he can spit, phlegm and hoik them out.

    I'm beginning to think that the graveyard shift is the one that sends the cold shiver down the spine of CiF mods.

    ReplyDelete