13 December 2009

Daily Chat 13/12/09

Pope Celestine V, who had attempted to flee in order to avoid becoming pope, resigned the papacy after only five months in 1294.  Abel Tasman became the first European to set foot on New Zealand in 1642.  Eugene Cernan and Harrison Schmitt began the last moonwalk of the Apollo 17 mission in 1972.  To date, it is the last time that humans have walked on the moon.  The baiji (Chinese river dolphin) was declared functionally extinct in 2006.

Born today:  Heinrich Heine (1797-1856), Curd Jürgens (1915-1982), Dick VanDyke (1925), Christopher Plummer (1929), and Ted Nugent (1948).

It is Saint Lucia Day.  Beware of Swedish girls with candles on their heads.


  1. Morning all!

    Studiously avoiding watching that git on Fern Britton's show this morning. I know we are buying ourselves a new telly for christmas, but I really don't want to put my foot through this one...

  2. Morning!

    Started the day off well by reading Khaled Diab's thread on becoming a father (and being present at the birth)...Lovely!

    Then I made the mistake of going to Kevin Mckenna's dreadful article on giving to beggars (or not), asylum seekers and ... bankers?!!

    'Victor mature' wrote -
    Maybe your beggar friend needs to f**k off back to where she came from (Not racist, could be a Glasgow slum) and stop emotionally blackmailing and poncing off everyone else.

    If any person is so useless that they can't earn a basic living in the western world then society is better off without her. One way or another.

    Stop the world I want to get off!

  3. Morning, folks.Dick van Dyke and Christopher Plummer are both still going,eh, which gives me a little satisfaction, as it's a tad depressing when you see famous figures from when you were small die off.If they're still alive (and working:Plummer's been really busy of late) then I kid myself I can't be old...

  4. Ooh, deary me, feel a little bit fragile.

    Think I may stick to Khaled's article - I need to focus on the positive things in life here!

  5. Alisdair - know the feeling ;)

  6. Morning Alisdair - I enjoyed your post on the Blair thread yesterday. I've not said hello since you joined UT - so hello friend, I'm really glad you decided to come and post here.

    A42 - I was there for the birth of both my sons!

    Bestest, warmest life experience by far!. It should be compulsory for men, not that everbody needs to be forced these days.

    40 years ago when my daughter was born it sadly wasn't allowed in Leeds. Within a few years it was allowed, even encouraged, in Salop where the boys were born. I wouldn't have missed it for the world.

    I also had the special and very moving of experience of being with my mam when she died unexpectedly but without struggle or pain. She literally took her leave and slipped away whilst I was stroking her hand as she slept. That was a special experience too.

    BB - you astonish me yet again my lovely

    (NB. - I would not use such a term of endearment for any other living lawyer Never, ever, under any circumstances)(Sorry about the footnote to my conscience it accused me of going soft on you the other day).

    I never thought I would see the day when you were first poster here!

    I have only just caught up with the new techno of HD TV (me son got one a couple of weeks ago) It is fucking brill for my favourite programmes - wildlife/nat history etc. It really was/is astonishing. If you are in doubt get one it will be worth it and may help wean the lad off rats and on to red setters.

    I may become Yorkshire's only tramp with HD tv - who knows...

  7. Ah there you are PB - I've become accustomed to seeing you as an early poster here. I awoke thinking I would start the day by saying how much I enjoy PB's posts as a start to the day - so consider it said.

    I hope you noticed that the Methods were an important influence in Altofts life in my post yesterday (they are mentioned in the Wiki piece). There were several chapels in Altofts. Off to the side (out of view) of the famous Silkstone Row was a Methods Chapel nestling among the miners cottages!

    Another beautiful day here in E Yorks so dog walking calls... and then maybe a few words on Miss Diesels 100th

  8. Hiya back to you deano. Hope Yorkshire's a little warmer than the Nth East-I'll be dogwalking in Northumberland later.

  9. Victor mature (on the Mckenna thread) must be a troll!

    He is making it up as he goes along!

    Don't feed him!

  10. I don't come across many beggars in the countryside world in which I live but if I come across a fellow tramp (they rarely beg or ask) or other soul in clear need they get the contents of my pockets whatever is in there. Because I come across so few beggars it's no great luxury or hardship since I am rarely called to put my money where my mouth is.

    I'm not in any way boasting I only tell the tell because of a beautiful and funny experience with a tramp I had a few years ago.

    I don't use much cash,in fact I rarely have any money on me at all. I use a credit card constantly, always paid off by direct debit.

    The one exception is the money I give to the farmer on whose land I squat. I always pay him cash and in turn he uses it to pay his old retired labourer who comes back and does light odd jobs on a friday. (Agri manual workers deon't get occupational pensions so its a kind of recycling of some of my pension - if you understand true economics)

    Anyway on this partic day I had picked up £200+ from an ATM and was coming back when I came across an old tramp pushing a supermarket trolley along the back lanes I use.

    Of fuck me I thought hoist by me own petard - tramps get everything in me pocket!

    I stopped the car and chatted with him he was a great fellow and I liked him so I really had no problem and as I left I put the rolled up £200+ in his hand said "have a good day friend."

    He unrolled and looked at it and counted it and then started arguing with me. He would be fucked if he would accept that much from an old tosser like me. Fucking no way he insisted.

    I had to laugh and I did explain that I myself wouldn't be without. I tried every twist I knew - I'd just won it on a horse I'd found it in the street etc etc. I was roundly accused of being a liar and a fantasy fairy

    In the end he would not have it - the best I could get him to accept was a tenner as a sign of our shared brotherhood.

    When I thought about it later I came to the conclusion that he knew in his heart of hearts that £200+ in one go would probably have sent to meet Odin and he wasn't quite ready for that.

    Now I really must get me dogs out.

  11. deano - morning! well, afternoon here, but the party didn't wind down until 4am, so I think I'm allowed. Once the coffee kicks in, it's prep time for Christmas lunch...hope i can last!

    I saw that there was a Methy presence in Altofts when I followed the link - great photos, both of them. something to have a crack at with the paints, perhaps! there was a pronounced divide, in urban areas, particularly, between the working class chapel and the middle class church. p'raps less so - or more 'liturgically' based - in rural communities. but in my mum's bit of Manchester, there was a definite social divide between the Methodist and Anglican communities. there's a good working class ethic in the church, i think - they used to say that the Labour Party "owed more to Methodism than to Marx".

    Anyway - the party last night was small in muber, so we were playing a game with the music. using deezer, spotify and youtube, there were rounds and everybody had to pick a track. as i recall (things got a bit hazy about 2am) these were:
    - the first single you ever owned
    - track from the first album you ever bought
    - track from favourite album
    - track from the first band you saw live
    - most disappointing track by a band you love (we decided 'worst song' would just be too painful) - much debate resulted...
    - desert island track
    - most uplifting song
    ermmm... there were others. anyway, it was very cool - lots of crap - but fun crap - but lots of very intersting stuff as well. maybe an idea for a future youtube-linking marathon?

    oh, mine were, ahem ahem
    - Hangin' Tough by NKOTB
    - Led Zep 1 (Good Times, Bad Times)
    - When You DOn't See Me, Vision Thing, Sisters of Mercy
    - Missed that one, must have been making punch - first live act was Eric Clapton
    - Under the Gun by Sisters of Mercy
    - Elgar's Cello Concerto in E minor
    - Hooligan's Progress by These Animal Men (had to resort to vinyl for that)

    Anyway. bread sauce. bloody lead-in time for cooking...

  12. Deano,
    When the hedgehog was living in the studio I made a box from pine with a sort of entrance hall built in so that cats could not get in it.
    I got the specs from hedgehog type sites on the internet. The entrance was a recommended 5inches square.
    When I released him he lived in it for a while under a bay tree in the front garden but then left.
    I don't know why but the other day I checked out the box. It contained a very small cat and two new born kittens.
    The cat belongs to a neighbour who also has two dogs so Poppy, decided that she wanted a bit of peace and quiet.
    Her owner took her back and she had one more at home.
    I'll post a couple of pics on my blog and remove them later.

  13. Being a child of the manse (the address of which is always up on the church board), you get used to certain 'regulars' turning up at the door - when we lived in Cheltenham, in particular, there were guys who would turn up twice a year as they did their 'route' (London for winter where the shelters were, out to Wales or the South-west for the summer, and back again). But they were classy - if me or mum opened the door, they'd just ask 'when vicar's back' and then push off for a bit. never after money, just some sandwiches, or soup, or a bed for the night in the vestibule at the church. proper 'gentlemen of the road', as my dad says.

    very different from the younger drug-addled chaps who'd try to force their way into the house when we lived in London...

  14. By the way I only pay the farmer once a month - and I sometimes forget for several months at a time and he never asks for his money...

  15. Oh God,
    Sorry for horning in like that on a very interesting chat.
    I'm a bit pushed and had promised Deano animal news so just put it on without reading thread.
    Sorry again and I'll get me coat.

  16. It is a really bizarre thing, giving. The chinese (and Buddhists in general I think) believe that you will never be comfortable in your own life if you don't give money away.

    Now, that makes it sound like people only give so they can get back - but that doesn't work, if there is an ulterior motive behind it. It only works if you give with a pure heart and a clear conscience.

    I have had several examples in my life where I have given people money that, if I had been realistic about it, I couldn't have afforded to do, and within days money has come back to me that I wasn't expecting - tax rebates I didn't know about, my dad finding some Euros knocking about the house that he wasn't going to use and deciding to give them to me, etc.

    So I have no qualms about giving for the sheer pleasure of giving and making the world a happier place, in the knowledge that if I do the right things for the right reasons the Universe will always manage see me right. :o)

  17. Excellent posts from Annetan and 13th Duke on the McKenna thread, by the way. Rednorth has picked up on the comedy troll routine nicely too.

  18. PhB - ".....there was a definite social divide between the Methodist and Anglican communities. there's a good working class ethic in the church, i think - they used to say that the Labour Party "owed more to Methodism than to Marx".

    I'm sure that's right (on both counts).

    My family were not very religious. As a kid I once started to ask: "...mam about god." She cut me short before the sentence was fully out of my mouth and pointed her finger at me and said " your non conformist and that's all you need to know"!

    When I was a young man it finally came home to me that she had a dread of me being hurt and dying away from home. The idea of a left footer or Anglican administering the last rites to me was some sort of anathema for her. I'm sure that had I been a sickly child she would have had me tattooed (on the forehead) "non conformist" just in case.

    Talking about the Methods and miners I have often wondered who was responsible for the most kids produced by the mining stock of the UK.

    The Catholics and their views on contraception were obvious contenders but I suspect the crown should go to the Methods for their long Sunday Schools. When the six day week of long shifts was the norm most miners were often too shagged out to fuck during the week. As I was once told an awful lot of fucking went on on Sunday afternoons when all the kids were safely being instructed in the Sunday Schools.

    I never heard of a miner begrudging a few bob or whatever could be afforded for the Methods if they were looking for an occasional donation to some cause or other. Harvest Festival as an idea for Christian celebration always makes me smile!

    I too have the Methods, along with the Army Education Corp, as having more to do with post war Labour achievements than Marx...

    Hope your special lunch today went well.

  19. BB - "...no qualms about giving for the sheer pleasure of giving and making the world a happier place, in the knowledge that if I do the right things for the right reasons the Universe will always manage see me right. :o)"

    Beautifully put young miss. I'm no Buddhist, but I would find it hard to quarrel with that given my life's experience of undeserved and unexpected good fortune.

    By the way I meant to ask - what do you think about a piece from you on either/or both UT2/CiF on the subject of this new(ish) development of convicting "associate" gang members of murder if they happen to have been in the vicinity but perhaps not even (or directly) involved when the deed (a fatal stabbing for example) was done.???

    There was a recent Panorama on the matter.

    I would be pleased to propose or join a lobby for you if you fancy another ATL?

  20. I'm wondering who Rupert Myers knows at the Graun. He was first commissioned as a pupil barrister in some regional chambers or other, but seems to be commenting on all kinds of non-legal stuff now - like books for girls and Abercrombie and Fitch. You don't get a gig like that as a pupil unless you can pull some strings, that's for sure.

    I wonder who his Facebook friends are? ;o)

  21. Montana - The picture at the top of the page is appreciated. "The baiji (Chinese river dolphin) was declared functionally extinct in 2006."

    Saw a sad note about it in a recent a Nat History tv prog here in UK. I think it was that one with Stephen Fry and mate?? (Stoaty anybody?)

    Stoaty - thanks for pictures of cats. New life always a delight.

    I saw your note trailing some news a few weeks ago and had been looking out for some wildlife news since my return. I was reading recently that the magnificent Sparrow hawks are learning the nutritional value of bird tables in back gardens and then up you pop with confirmation - amazing.

    You ain't been painting your daughter and man in Yorks have you? That distant headland in the background could easily be taken for the famed Flamboro head you know! Not that many places in the UK where you get that a bay with such a distant sweeping headland. I really do like your painting of it.

    Probably not Yorks 'cos the beach isn't as shingley as yours.

  22. been thinking about this 'you only give because it makes you feel good' thing.

    I think you feel good because human beings are meant to share stuff. we all benefit from it because a society based on this concept will help the weak, so enabling them to become stronger instead of becoming weaker and perhaps more vicious.

    Helping the weak is the right thing to do,people who are afrid of being shafted or cheated are very sad gits IMHO.

  23. Deano,
    It's Herne Bay.
    My son lives in York though.
    Will take cat pics off shortly to conserve purity of site. How to paint a bluebell pic next.

  24. annetan

    You are absolutely right. We are made to be communal beings. It is is our genetic make-up.

    And yes, they are sad bastards.

    Stoaty - lovely photos of the kittehs. :o)

  25. Hi All,

    Lovely thread today. I've always personally found it very hard to take money even when I really needed it, even from a close family member. Stupid pride.

    Luckily I don't need it these days and try to do a bit here and there. Must say I mostly give to animal charities but the odd human gets a bit once in a while! Buskers always, unless they're truly dreadful - although that's rarely the case. (Or if they're playing fucking xmas music - bah humbug! Hate it.)

  26. Colin - lovely cat. I'm a dog person, myself, you understand, but admire this cat's good sense and good looks.

    Like your paintings too. I don't know much about art, etc., but it reminds me a bit of the Glasgow Boys school - ?

  27. Evening all,

    that Victor Mature, what an objectionable little fellow he is eh?

    Another brilliant post from ellis on the Rawnsley thread if you've not seen it. As usual (to paraphrase the Day Today) ''swatting the wasps from the sweet apple of truth''.

    The thing I don't understand is the amount of posters on these threads that claim they will be voting Conservative to get rid of Labour. Now taking away the percentage who will be Tory trolls still leaves an enormous amount who are not thinking.

    Have they no idea all we are going to get is the same shit served up on an Eton spoon?

    As Bill Clinton never said ''It's the political system stupid''. That's the problem. Politicians of all hues in Westminster are now 100% interchangeable. There's no conceivable differences. Both main parties want to fuck the country on behalf of their super rich paymasters.

    A case in point is the thread on Demos recommendations for a form of unpaid civic service. The interesting aspect about Demos, THE New Labour think tank of the 90's and noughties is that it welcomed Osborne and Willetts on board in May, without any fanfare or pomp.

    If this doesn't epitomise the paucity of the alternative in our Political system I don't know what does.

    We are ruled by a tiny technocratic oligarchy motivated by one policy only- to enrich themselves and their paymasters.

    Revolution now.

  28. thauma,
    Thank you.
    I'm certainly not in that league though.

  29. PrincessCC

    "It is interesting to know about the coal - is that why Silkstone near Barnsley is called that?"

    I'm no expert on coal or any other geology but given my layperson understanding I think it is highly likely that the rich Silkstone seam took it's name from the village nr Barnsley because it was in that area where the Silkstone seam "outcropped" (ie came to the surface).

    The Pennines and the now sloping angle of the coal seams (it sits on something like a 1:20 decline out to the N Sea) meant that it came up from the depths and broke the surface in our part of the world. Before the industry really got started it is likely that the folk of Silkstone could have picked the coal out of the local fields.

    What's left of the producing pits - the Big K out Selby way for example is still mining the Silkstone seam.

    The seam itself is quite near the surface under much of Sheffield as it happens too. It comes close to the surface on the City's Eastern edge. Yet about 40 miles away across the York/Lincs plain it is almost half mile vertically down beneath Lincoln.

    You probably know that it is often said that UK is an island that floats on an underground sea of coal. That's true. There are of course lots of different seams of coal under the earth at different depths.

    The Silkstone is one of the deepest and the coal from it is of higher quality and thus prized. The seam was also mined in both Derbyshire and most sadly of all by those fucking bastards down in Notts.

    It wasn't the very best coal - that prize belongs to them singing bastards from around annetans area.

    The anthracite from Wales not only built Cardiff but was real fucking class coal it did in fairness give the taffs som'at to sing about (They have the best choirs but we have the best brass bands) (I like taffs - it's just the Nott's miners I have difficulty with)

    I mentioned the other night my beloved mam's passion for hoisting her skirts and toasting her bum by a coal fire - she would, and sometimes did, buy a bit of Welsh anthracite as a treat. (Coals to Newcastle !!)It is regarded as amongst the finest steaming coals in the world - it burns clean and very very hot. It could easily melt a cheap grate when stoked up.

    (Stoaty I can even stomach my comrades from the old Kent and even the Lanc's fields. Yorks have never had problems with the jocks and the lads from Durham and the NE) Nor the Staff's and Salopians - just the Nott's tossers)

    Do you know until I penned this for PCC I had no idea that I knew as much about the industry as I seem to!!

    I never worked in coal. I think Rednorth is from Yorks too and I suspect he knows more about it than I do. I wish we could get him over here!

  30. Annetan - as I often do, I find myself in agree with your sound views.

    "..As Bill Clinton never said '"

    Somebody once told me that Billy boy delivered a lecture to an ivy league uni not that long ago ( can't recall which uni) that included words to the effect:

    " ...you will be the first generation of USA citizens who cannot look-forward to a better standard of living than your parents.."

    You come across the claim/speech ??

  31. Deano - that phrase has been floating around the US (and indeed, here) for some time now. Dunno if Clinton's actually said it out loud. But if he did, you can be sure he got paid a lot for it.

    Colin, don't be so self-deprecating: your stuff is bloody good. I once had the pleasure of viewing somone's extensive private collection of Glasgow Boys paintings and your figures-on-a-beach are very evocative of those figures-on-a-beach. Or vice versa.

  32. Hi deano,

    not aware of the speech you've mentioned however I have every confidence he would have madeit.

    And of course he woould have gotten away with it with his trademark cheeky smirk and wink.

    I may be wrong but I think Rednorth is Scottish. I'm sure I've seen him make passing reference to this but I may have just imagined it.

  33. Please ignore the spelling mistakes above...

  34. I rather thought Rednorth was a woman....

  35. Duke/thauma

    I thought I had read something of late the made me think rednorth = Yorkshire.

    (heavens fucking forbid that I become a BTH searcher of past posts but) :

    "Ciffies 2009: commenter of the year

    rednorth's comment 04 Dec 09, 12:01am


    He's said far worse than that.

    In a brush with me, he justified Pinochet's murders (largely of artists and students remember) on the grounds that they were in order "to save Chile from Pol Pot", whose secret police were, he said, being imported by the Chilean Government.

    Entirely unrelated to the above

    I am looking forward with enthusiasm to racists, fascists, Stalinists, misogynists and other varieties of interesting opinion formers being given article space on cif in order for us to shake our heads disapprovingly at their somewhat unwholesome opinions, but inwardly thrill to their command of the English Language.

    That such skills can be separated from the depraved sentiments they express is what we call in Yorkshire, {deano's bold emphasis} with all the nuances of our rich and ancient dialect, a load of old bollocks.

    Recommended (20"

    Perhaps he/she has just come to live here??

  36. Bastard - his/her assumed Yorkiness was an important element in my nominating rednorth along with PCC as my choices for a Cif award this year. I was going to do a Celtish person(s) next year.

    If he/she is a jock I want me money back..

    Shudder the thought that rednorth turns out to be a Notts miner. Fuck I'd have to leave the Country never mind the County

  37. Deano -- I'm pretty sure I've seen rednorth talking about being from Yorkshire before. Wybourne's just engaging in some wishful thinking. :-)

  38. Hi everyone

    stoaty - lovely photos of the new feline family. And a rather fine hedgehog residence, too. I'll look forward to the bluebells painting that you plan.


    Yep, coal is close to the surface round my neck of the woods. In fact, my house has no foundations, being built on what was chucked to one side from the surface coal gathering that used to go on round here.

    I have a local history book with some snippets on mining. Here's a sample -

    In 1893, after disagreement over a pay cut, the Federated Miners came out in a body against the colliery proprietors, due to the Collier's Unions in Yorkshire & Derbyshire having considerable funds. There was a lock-out, and trouble brewed at Holbrook. Riots followed at Wath Main, Featherstone, Hoyland, Silkstone etc. The military were sent in and in Featherstone, they fired on the riotous mob. The troops had to leave Coalbrook to quell unrest at Orgreave. The firms in Sheffield had to close as there was no fuel to run them. As the shortages bit & it became scarcer, the price of coal was 22/6d per ton. When the strike ended, the colliery owners made lots of money because of the high price.

    In 1894, work slowed up & the miners were on shorter hours - the price of coal then went down due to stockpiling by the owners. Silkstone fell from 11s to 9s 6d per ton; Barnsley Hards from 9s to 7s 6d per ton. I think my colleague at work is paying £14 a bag for coal today.

    Makes you proud, doesn't it, to remember that Yorks. folk were capable of rioting when things went against us. But sad too, as we seem to favour sleepwalking to direct action these days, and our trade unions are not the same as they were.

    BTW, my avatar is a pic of 2 pit brow lasses, who sorted the coal at the surface.

  39. No sign of yesterday’s birthday boys, then? Must have been a good night…

    deano: Glad to see you back and on such good form.

    Interested to see the stuff about Altofts and Silkstone Row, but I’m left wondering just how long the

    longest unbroken row of terraced houses in Europe

    actually was. You don’t say, the wiki page doesn’t say, and the Wakefield Council page cited as a source on wiki doesn’t say.

    I hope you’re not indulging in any of the Yorkshire-centric interpretation of the facts those from your county are sometimes prone to…

  40. This is what I'd do if I were a pilot.

    Come to think of it, it's not completely unlike what I do when I get bored at work.

  41. andysays

    Exaggerate? Us Yorkshire folk? Nay, lad. I'll stand by whatever deano says & swear 'tis truth. As will princessc, I'm sure.

    Called to a view a Small Island now, so see you later.

  42. Evening all, thanks for all good wishes. Birthdays eh? Another year older and deeper in debt...


    Xmas songs - always loved these two...



  43. MsChin - have just watched 'Four Yorkshiremen' in your honour.

  44. Love it!

    Great to see you back too Andy - for the record my youngest son is actually called Josiah!

  45. I Believe In Father Christmas was the first song I heard on the radio the morning after John Lennon was shot.

    Back in those days Christmas didn't begin until a couple of weeks before the event, and I can remember thinking "why the hell is Mike Smith playing this now?" Then after it finished he announced the news and it was like I had been hit by a bus.

    "They said there'll be snow at Christmas
    They said there'll be peace on Earth
    Hallelujah Noel be it Heaven or Hell
    The Christmas you get you deserve."

  46. How did I not realise in the 70s that Greg Lake was so pretty?

    (sorry to lower the tone...)

  47. No sign of yesterday’s birthday boys, then? Must have been a good night…

    Thx andy, and everybody else for the good wishes. I've not had time to hang out on the thread because I've been doing some real life wth my kids. Here's a song::


  48. John Lennon being shot, BB - one of those "where were you.." moments.

    As Paul Merton once said, I'd love to know what Lee Harvey Oswald was doing when he heard that JFK had been shot.

    Why was JFK shot incidentally? Don't want to add fuel to the Duke's "Hank/GIYUS" fire but...


  49. @ Hank
    "Why was JFK shot incidentally?"

    Hm, I rather thought he was shot purposely...
    (got me coat, leaving now...)

  50. Hi Hank - Hope the time with your son was good and wallet not too light now...

  51. You know what birthdays with your kids are like, deano, you end up out of pocket but still money well spent.

    On the plus side he bought me thisfilm

  52. Fair enough, Hank. Happy birthday and fuck everybody else.

  53. Deano - you do know a lot about it. It is really interesting stuff - I spent a while reading up on some of it last night after posting on here (I seem to be a late night poster the last few days). This made me laugh: "The seam was also mined in both Derbyshire and most sadly of all by those fucking bastards down in Notts." If we ever manage to have some sort of Northern Republic (could happen if the Scots go first) then the wall would have to be built just north of Notts. Scabbing bleeps. Although actually I have a very good friend from Nottingham so would have to get her out.

    Andy - how dare you infer that we Yorkshire types are prone to these little embellishments!! I used to work in a bar called the Stonehouse in Sheffield and it was allegedly the longest bar in Europe. So there - that is another thing we had. I only lasted a few weeks - dreadful place.

    Hi Hank and Scherfig - glad you had happy days.

    Montana I don't know who Greg Lake is so am off to look him up!

  54. feelgoods

    "Fair enough, Hank. Happy birthday and fuck everybody else."

    Lost me there, kiddo. Happy birthday to you for yesterday anyway, scherf. x

  55. @princesschipchops - ooh, me and you are gonna be falling out bigstyle sometime soon...

    ...as if it's not bad enough that you've fallen into the trap of thinking that anyone south of the Scargill-Thatcher Line is a scab bastard, you've also used "infer" when you meant "imply".

    And you don't know who Greg Lake is.

  56. Oh Hank - me grammar is not me strong point (which kills me ma as she was an English teacher). Actually I don't really think everyone south of the line is a scab bastard. It is just one of those South Yorkshire tales we used to be told around the coal fire in Grimey of an evening. I actually like Nottingham - a lot - it has a church that is now a bar and feels very sinful - so it's alright by me and my mate lives there so it has to be good(ducks to avoid Deano's shoe flying past ear.)

    But you got me bang to rights on the Greg Lake - sorry! But I DO know Emerson, Lake and Palmer. My stepdad still has all his vinyl and they are amongst it. I am pretty bad on music actually - which is why I have never dared to post some sort of song link on here - I think I would be laughed out of the building and never able to show my face again. I actually have learned quite a bit about music from some around these parts.

    Anyway I am off to check out The Guardian very briefly as not looked today and then to bed. Nite all.

  57. The church that is now a bar, PCC, is the Pitcher and Piano, in the Lace Market. It was a wonderful church and is now an average bar. But that's just my view as an atheistic pisshead with an appreciation of history, architecture and aesthetics...

  58. There was an old church in Seattle that briefly did a stint as a fairly notorious gay bar.

  59. Hank - hey snap! Me youngest called around today to come waliking with the dogs and told me he has got a copy of the film for our get together at xmas!

    Were you on here the other day/night when someone produced the link to the Austin Mitchell - Clough Revie interview? Classic!

    A lot of Leeds fans liked Clough but thought he started his decline when he split with Peter

    Now then Hank we have had this discussion before - not everbody in Notts is regarded as a complete tossppot of a bastard. Just them wi
    coal dust in their skin and cirrhosis of the brain . Them taffs is South of Yorks but we loves em...

    The women of Nottingham town are admired to this day, but your claim to have the oldest pub (in a cliff sum'at to Jersualem) is 'not accepted'. and Robin Hood is from Pontefract not Notts.

    Your adopted county County does have admired writers Shillitoe/Lawrence. Used to make some nice cigs as well. Football jersey much admired by the Italians I understand too. All in all a lot going for it....

  60. @deano - "me youngest called round today..."

    Reminds me of this...


    Don't start on the scabs/miners' strike stuff, deano. If there ever was an example of the old tactic of "divide and rule", that was it.

    I'd reserve a special place in Hell, a tiny airless cell with room enough for one person alone to stand upright constantly, no room for them to bend, kneel or turn around, and stick Roy Lynk in there with Thatcher. I fucking despise the pair of them, and will never forgive either of them for what they did, and for what they've done.

    And I'll be fucking damned if I'm gonna take any part of the blame for what they did.

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  62. Good on you Bro - enjoyed the Billy song , had not heard it before. I don't think we ever saw you on t'other side our kid.

    Away to my bed now friend - night.