27 January 2010


The trial of Guy Fawkes and other Gunpowder Plot conspirators began in 1606.  Gus Grissom, Edward White and Roger Chaffee were killed when a fire broke out on board Apollo I during testing.  The Paris Peace Accord ended the Viet Nam War in 1973.

Born today:  Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (1756-1791), Lewis Carroll (1832-1898), the pride of Denison, Iowa, Donna Reed (1921-1986), Mikhail Baryshnikov (1948), Alan Cumming (1965).

It is Holocaust Remembrance Day.


  1. The Phantom Tollbooth isn't just a great book for children. It's a great book. Read it if you haven't.

  2. X-posted from yesterday

    Philippa: Great work on Chilcot. Got a sore finger recommending your posts.

  3. thank you medve - nod from me to BB, whose contributions to an earlier thread made me go off and do some digging. but am not going to bother with the shawcross thread - CIF topic overload has kicked in (plus, he's not very good)...

  4. Philippa,

    Have you located modshavnofriends yet? ;-)

  5. yes, he's on the 'aliens' thread. mucho relieved...

  6. Phew!

    Didn't realise when I questioned her science background she was a vet heh heh, explains a lot!

  7. As a headline, "We are not launching a badger extermination programme" did remind me of the epic PR fail of Cyclone Power Tech when they put out a release saying
    "We completely understand the public's concern about futuristic robots feeding on the human population..."
    Like anyone was going to contibue reading after having that image put in their brain...

  8. This on WADDYA but unlikely to last, perhaps:

    Could we have an article on whether and when it is appropriate or advisable for an editor to feel compelled to join in the discussion about, say, an article or a document which has been deliberately leaked in order to put a spin on events.

    Now that Jack Straw's reputation has been gently savaged by Elizabeth Wilmshurst at the Chilcot inquiry and all the press and media are picking over the bloody remains, perhaps we could ponder on why Matt Seaton felt he needed to say this:

    @ chingwu:

    [chingwu] "For all his faults, the above shows Jack Straw in a good light in my view."

    [Seaton] Agree 100%. Quite a brilliant and perspicacious summary of everything about the Iraq adventure that would come back to haunt Blair. Straw shoots up in my estimation here. He must also have been listening to his own legal advice at the FCO.

    This from the Daily Mail (the newspaper to which Gordon Brown likes to say "Yes!"):

    Mr Straw's office went on to make an extraordinary request - apparently at Downing Street's behest - for an 'urgent' assessment of what might happen if Britain went to war without legal authority.

    Sir Michael told ministers such a step would be 'inconceivable' and would break the duty of ministers to comply with the law, risk offences under the International Criminal Court Act and could leave ministers open to prosecutions for 'misfeasance in public office'.

    He told the inquiry the request for advice on the consequences of an illegal war was 'curious', adding: 'I am still not entirely sure what the purpose was. I think it was to send off to Number Ten and it did go to Number Ten who said, "Why has this been put in writing?" is my recollection.'

    As late as January 2003 - less than two months before military action was launched - Sir Michael protested at Mr Straw's assertion that it would still be possible to take action, even if the Government failed to get a second resolution authorising war.

    'To use force without Security Council authority would amount to a crime of aggression,' he wrote in a memo to Mr Straw.

    Mr Straw replied: 'I note your advice but I do not accept it.'

    Is there an occasional uncontrollable neediness on the part of editors to show their ignorance to the world or is it merely that the propaganda meme is now so embedded that such outbursts are both spontaneous and automatic?

    The problem is that when we, the idiot classes below the line stray into danger of making The Guardian look foolish, we tend to be deleted.

    The staff, however, seem to delight in clambering to the pinnacle of CiF Towers and placing flashing neon signs to attract the gaze of the world and cause passing aircraft to wobble and nosedive:

    Here be idiots.

  9. Gordon Brown announces that report showing inequalities increasing in Britain as sobering

    From the article:

    A central theme of the report is the profound, lifelong negative impact that being born poor, and into a disadvantaged social class, has on a child. These inequalities accumulate over the life cycle, the report concludes. Social class has a big impact on children's school readiness at the age of three, but continues to drag children back through school and beyond.

    This was what I was arguing all last week on various threads.

    And what are the Conservatives answers to this. ''Jolly well pull your socks up!''

    On top of this, British public opinion has lurched to the right, the establishment is looking after itself via Bank bailouts, Chilcot enquiries, refusal to contemplate constitutional change and no further action on MP's expenses.

    Plus we have an incoming administration that makes Brideshead Revisited look like Cathy Come Home

    Alcohol or emigration- it's the only conceivable choice.

  10. Your Grace,

    "Alcohol or emigration- it's the only conceivable choice."

    I disagree: there's always alcohol AND emigration! ;-)

  11. Wybourne

    Plus we have an incoming administration that makes Brideshead Revisited look like Cathy Come Home

    Thanks for that. Sets the day off on the right note.

    I think when the right says things like, "Pull your socks up" we should take it as just a stock, cut-and-paste response which can be used in polite-ish society.

    What they really mean is: "We do not give a fuck and we never will."

    I think trying to reason is a waste of time.

  12. Good post Atomboy, i saw it over at waddya.

    "Gordon Brown announces that report showing inequalities increasing in Britain as sobering"

    "Sobering". What a choice of words. Its a bit like the Green party getting elected and then finding out emissions and polution had *worsened* under their reign, and Lucas calling the report "sobering".

  13. Atomboy - aye, that 'leak' is beginning to make more sense, isn't it? Although I'd posit that he did listen to the advice, which scared him to death so he was forced to start strong-arming the advisers to make sure nobody else got to listen to it...

    His 'U-turn period' was that year from March 2002 (the letter) to March 2003 (culminating in his speech in the House). When exactly he made the decision can presumably now be pinned down from the docs, and I do hope that he is asked both when and why he swivelled round when he is back before the Inquiry...

  14. Jay,

    The only manifesto promise every administration since 1979 has adhered to is:

    Privatise the profits and the wealth of the people

    Nationalise subsequent social-economic fallout through ''personal responsibility'' agenda

  15. Mornin' all.
    Last night's Newswipe was too good.

    Have a good day, all.

  16. Duke

    I struggle to think of a single public entity that hasnt been either fully privatised, part privatised, or is facing an attempt to privatise it. Hospitals, schools, prisons, war itself (mercs), the mail, utilities, trains, GPs, back to work programmes, unversities increasingly being shaped along profit making lines, the BBC under attack from Murdoch and the Tories, the list is just endless.

    Every single facet of British life must be making someone a profit. The very idea of *public* is now unthinkable. And to cap it off every one of the 3 parties fully supports this.

  17. yr grace / jay - bang on. don't forget carbon trading and 'rewards' for shopping benefit cheats, everything can be marketised and traded in its cash-equivalent form...

  18. Followed your link your Grace - you and Palinurus (what a great name) summed it up succinctly.

    It' a shame that the three best Scottish Labour men died - Smith, Dewar and Cook - any one of them would have made a difference. Alas.

  19. Phantom Tolbooth- absolutely! What a brilliant book! I also enjoyed the aminated film of it, when I saw it years ago.

    But I really popped in to whoop delight at being off pre- mod again.
    I had an email saying I was restricted after a series of off- topic remarks. Needless to say, I don't accept that description. But anyway, today, the red warning has gone and my posts are working again. Just under two weeks.
    It's been a nice rest, actually. And a reminder not to be such an appalling wind-bag, as well.

  20. Philippa,

    George Bernard Shaw sums up the socio-economic issues of UK society nicely:

    “Do not waste your time on Social Questions. What is the matter with the poor is Poverty; what is the matter with the rich is Uselessness.”

  21. Edwin,

    yeah, John Smith, the great Political ''what if''?

    Although of the right of the Labour Party, I cannot imagine he would have ever made the decisions Blair made.

    Interestingly, although he rid the Labour conference of the Trade Union bloc vote in favour of OMOV, he never contemplated getting rid of Clause IV.

    Much disquiet was made of this by certain memebers of his Shadow cabinet at the time, messrs Blair and Brown....

    It's undoubted that Smith would have won in 1997 but it's purely a matter for conjecture as to what he would have done differently.

    However, we do know for a fact that he had more integrity in his pinkie toe nail than Blair could ever dream of having.

    As for Robin Cook- one of the most depressing things about Chilcot is he is not around. He would have had his revenge and then some.

  22. I am back online! I feel TOTALLT out of touch and will just have to ease myself back in.

    I haven't moved :-(
    Sky shutdown my broadband despite having told me that I needed to phone them and confirm before they would do anything!

    First I was told that my router was faulty! then they sent me a new router and still nothing, I was then told that my line had been deactivated! They are crap - will definitely find another ISP when I do eventually move!

    Will take me some time to ease my way back in.

    Alisdair - sorry to hear your news - take care (apols for late response).

  23. Anne! Welcome back and sorry to hear about the non-move and non-access.

  24. welcome back annetan!

    am currently having lengthy and costly mobile phone calls with my provider, where I say "my landline doesn't work" and they say "yes it does", and I say, "No, it doesn't", and they say, "Yes, yes it does..."

    Were I to be dragged up and watched by a crowd of children it would be the most boring pantomime ever.

  25. Welcome back Annetan :)

    I read a very good piece the other day from Nancy Fraser in the New Left Review that i think you would find very interesting, Annetan, if you have a chance to google it, about conflict between identity politics and the politics of redistribution etc.

    You should look at virgin media perhaps, fibre optics instead of copper lines, i've had it 2 years in two different houses and my broadband hasnt gone down once.

  26. "If you had allowed the UN to make the decision, you would have put it in the hands of a communist Chinese government, a corrupt Russian semi-government, and, ultimately, the French"

    Denis McShane

    He's as bats-attic in person as in print, clearly.

  27. Nice to see you back Annetan.

    Excerpt quote of the day from thetrashheap on the Neal Lawson equality thread:

    ''I object to supplying some people even enough money to eat and a roof over their head when they refuse to support themselves. I accept that I have to house and feed single parents but I object to the fact they were irresponsible and didn't create the proper circumstance to have a family.''


  28. Philippa,

    As opposed to the unilateral decision taken by a President who didn't actually win the 2000 election and a Prime Minister whose party gained 25% of the 44 million registered to vote in 2001.

    Yup, Democratic mandates sure led the way to Iraq didn't they?

  29. your grace - was reminded of that dreadful Austin Mitchell "£90 kettle" article, a truly stupid decision that "what this situation really needs is a little jokie, that'll cheer everyone up and stop them mentioning 'hanging' and 'lampposts' so much".

    Not fucking laughing denis. really not.

    fortunately philippe sands was the other interviewee. unfortunately as this was W@1 he wasn't able to give full vent to his feelings...

  30. "And, as it turns out, right after 9/11 our ultra-hawks considered opening an even more illogical front: a top-secret memo cited in the 9/11 Commission Report—apparently written by Under Secretary of Defense Douglas Feith for Donald Rumsfeld—urged “hitting targets outside the Middle East in the initial offensive,” including Paraguay, Argentina, and Brazil. The report notes, “The author suggested … since U.S. attacks were expected in Afghanistan, an American attack in South America or Southeast Asia might be a surprise to the terrorists”—not to mention a shocker to any member of the reality-based community."

    This whole article is a simiarly good read, cited on one of the Chilcot threads.


  31. Re McShane: That little quote reminded me instantly of tvtropes.org, where I found this little and very fitting quote from "The Iron Giant":

    "You think this metal man is fun, but who built it? The Russians? The Chinese? Martians? Canadians? No one knows!"

    See Arson, Murder and Jaywalking for other nice instances.

    Attacking South America while attacking the Middle East because of the surprise element reminds of Zapp Brannigan:

    "Captain Zapp Brannigan: As you know, the key to victory is the element of surprise. Surprise!
    [pushes button, bay doors open under soldiers]"

  32. 13th Duke - I cannot believe the fucking comments on that Lawson thread - I am fuming! It is weird because the other innequality thread is not as full of the demented mad ones - they do seem to all arrive at certain threads at once and reccommend their cretinous drivel over and over. Do you think they all belong to some right wing blog where they get alerted to certain threads?

    That quote from Trashers just made me so mad I had to take a moment. I honestly think if he had said that to me in person I would have punched him out.

    What about this from Greytiles: ''The population will never be `equal' whatever that word means in this context and let us give thanks for that.

    Most of the time, people choose their own level.''

    See that poor kid 'chose' to be poor - he doesn't deserve any of Greytiles hard earned money in tax take because he chose to be born into a poor household and to go to a shitty inner city school and then to not be able to afford uni. It is all about choice.

    What a nasty bunch of fuckers.

  33. interesting piece up from tom clark about the inequality report - stat-heavy and less 'dogmatic' than some of the others.

    bit too highbrow for me, mind, but some of you smarter types could enjoy it.

  34. PCC - I know, it's mind-blowing, isn't it? People with a complete and total empathy bypass.

  35. Evening all

    anne - great to see you back at last.

    Have been lurking in farmyards today so a bit out of touch. Has Goldsmith added to the sum of useful human knowledge, suppose I ought to find out.

    Impressed with Ms Wilmshurst yesterday though and her gloriously understated shredding of the shits. The only reason why Straw should ever lift his head again is to apologise immediately prior to it being hacked off.

  36. Evening all.

    Been a bit preoccupied with job applications over the last few days, so have a lot to catch up on.

    Did you catch Clare Short's comments on PM just now?

    On Trashers comment - show him the pigs. Dare I even look at these inequality threads?

  37. MsChin

    show him the pigs

    Oh she did, she did! Have a peek....

  38. Evening all,

    logged on here, saw princess's comments above and got straight back on to the Lawson thread for a look.

    I heart an angry princesscc.

    It's one of the truly great things to see on CiF along with a RedNorth diatribe and a PeterGuillam skewering.

  39. Nick Cohen on PM.

    Flailing around like a dying haddock.

  40. MsC

    Am hunkered down in a hotel with no radio - waiting for Thauma to arrive so we can tuck into the swally - so missed claire. what did she say?

    will get over to the Lawson thread - an angry princess huh? great!

  41. Princess -
    [doffs hat]
    [throws in a curtsey for good measure]
    really good stuff...

  42. (And Cohen just got totally pwned by someone who actually understands 'the law', and ended up making funny pfffft noises like he was actually deflating in the studio)

    (heh heh)

  43. Am now working way through the thread. good stuff from alisdair too.

  44. Alisdair/Princess

    Great stuff on the Lawson thread from you two...

  45. This comment has been removed by the author.

  46. When princesscc gets going does anyone else get a:

    ''And I will strike down upon those with great vengeance and with FUUURRIOOUUS anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know that my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee!!''

    vibe as well?

    Righteous left wing anger, it's what we need more of. Along with love. As Jackie de Shannon rightly pointed out.

  47. Thanks for the Newswipe link, Habibington. I keep forgetting to watch it.
    Oh for the days of four channels.

  48. The a GIYUS fest on Whaddya, Yr Grace. Can't tempt you back?

  49. Thanks for welcomes back people!

    Hi Jay - thanks for ref to Fraser article - very interesting. I especially liked
    " They may miss, for example, the links (institutionalized in labour markets) between androcentric norms that devalue activities coded as ‘feminine’, on the one hand, and the low wages of female workers on the other"

    Exactly the same can be said about higher levels of poverty amongst some racial/religious minorities. In fact in the case of muslims it has possibly driven more of them into an extreme form of the religion which for example prevents women from working.

    Yes I agree about Virgin media - the area I want to live in is further from the exchange making copper connections even slower.

  50. Actually I have a suggestion. Perhaps we should have a corner on here - like the photos one - for 'righwing moron of the day'. I sponsor Trashers for today - who would happily see people starve rather than give any of his hard earned gold away.

    Why have all these freaks started to inhabit Cif so? The other day I read a good article by Siglitz - on the Telegraph of all places - and the comments below that were much less rabid than the ones you get on Cif - there were even some fairly left ones. But no one was as dumb as some of the stuff on the Lawson thread.

    Still Trashers has shown himself to be to the right of Marie Antionette - instead of 'let them eat cake' his mantra is 'let them starve'.

    One other thing I was thinking about last night. THe report that said the UK has moved significantly to the right because only 38% of people supported wealth distribution was a bit strange. Because most people support a tax on bonuses and the majority of people were in support of the fifty percent tax rate. So I got to wondering - did the researchers make it clear in what direction that re distribution would be going? Because obviously we have just seen the biggest re-distribution of wealth from the majority to the wealthy elite that has probably ever occurred. Maybe it was that that those interviewed thought of when they answered in the negative?

    Hi Anne -nice to see you back.

  51. 13th Duke - I would dearly love to strike down something upon their heads - hard! I will try to be less righteous - I just get so darned mad!

  52. princess - not out of the question that what 'wealth redistribution' means was not explained...

  53. Wasn't there another dodgy answer, too? Something about not wanting more money spent on the NHS etc? Hardly surprising in the middle of the worst financial crisis since 42 BC, and hardly the same as asking, say, "When affordable, do you think it's right to spend more money on the NHS?". Seems like a pretty wibblish survey all round.

  54. PCC, if you're looking for awards for stupidity, did you see the abortion comment i quoted from the McEwan thread? Apparently, the abortion debate is very simple:

    "There are those who want to kill babies and those who dont."

  55. You have to pay for the report to get anything other than the headline paragraphs, so can't look up what the questions were.


  56. Evening all, checking in from farkas-ordító hideg (that is wolf-howling cold) Budapest -10C.

    Re Lawson: Well done PCC & Alisdair.

  57. Jay - that is brilliant. Sums it up though really doesn't it? Very neatly!

    Furius Camillius/cammilus (whatever) has just told me that he doesn't care at all if the UK falls into total deprivation and crime and drug use as long as social care is cut to the bone and his tax is cut to the bone too he will be happy.

    This interests me - are there really some people who would be quite happy for us to become as dangerous a nation to live in as the US - or somewhere even more Libertarian like erm Somalia - as long as they got a tax cut? Is it because they have some sort of arrogant belief that nothing bad would happen to them? That they could never be the ones shot for fifty dollars in their wallet? These sorts of comments really do make me think that being very right wing must be some sort of mental deffect.

    I just wish more reasoned and intelligent Tory posters like PatDavers or EvilTory were still around as much. Although OmniGod can be good value and good to debate with despite his crazy libertarian beliefs. But some of them - god they are like mad dogs.

    A good friend of mines family got robbed horribly - they were beaten - and the police said when they investigated they had been purposefully targeted because of their money (they are very rich). If I had that kind of money I would rather pay a bit more in tax and live somewhere like Norway or Sweden where the chances of a lunatic breaking into my home or accosting me on the streets were slim than live in a big US city where crime is rife. Maybe money is so addictive it comes to mean more than anything else to them?

  58. Habib: that was a fantastic Newswipe ('a lighthouse keeper being beheaded by a laser beam'). And extra points for the Axelrod soundtrack.

  59. Fencewalker,

    sorry about that, got summoned for my dinner. What's the Belgian waffler on about? He was banging on about Lawrence of Arabia yesterday.

    Anti-Arab sentiment and Zionism in the other David Lean films perhaps?

    - Dr Zhivago? Tom Courtenay as Pasha:

    ''For ze Communist Revolution and Zionism!''

    - Ryan's Daughter?

    ''Oh, oi hate them Arabs to be sure, pass us another potato Father....''

    - The Bridge over the River Kwai? With the subliminal rendition of 'Colonel Bogey'?-

    ''Muhammad, has only got one ball.....''

  60. PCC - i think its quite indicative of the changes to cif debates. When i started there were some proper debates, a group of posters would debate with fairly lengthy posts, 4, 5 paragrpahs etc. These days it seems the norm is more like 1 or 2 sentences.

    Also, someone said they knew someone who had been told by Tory friends (young people) that they could earn money for posting suitable comments on public forums. We know Israel has gone in for this in a big way, as has the fossil fuel lobby, it seems a natural extension this will become more and more mainstream which really doesnt bode well.

  61. All of that and more, but he's been atomised already. I've suggested an ATL for him, but with conditions (which, frankly, will probably make him unable to wank, let alone type).

  62. My God Jay - you mean someone could be paying someone as dumb as furiuscamulliuswhatever - to post! The mind boggles. How can I get work doing this? I mean it seems quite easy. I can just shout 'Brown out now' 'General election now' all over the Mail can I and get paid?

  63. "are there really some people who would be quite happy for us to become as dangerous a nation to live in as the US - or somewhere even more Libertarian like erm Somalia - as long as they got a tax cut?"

    I do wonder if some of 'em go to sleep at night dreaming of having their very own walled compound, and a bank of CCTV monitors trained on the feral scum out in the badlands outside, so they can sit there and sink beers while watching at old people being torn limb from limb by packs of ravening teen single mothers, and laughing...

    Because some of them don't seem to realise that other people are actually people, if you see what I mean. It's like for them, society's just a big version of Championship Manager - who cares if people are relegated, they're not real, not like me, I'm real, I matter, everything else is just ... not real.

    Too many post-apocalyptic analogies there. Off to pub to perform my voluntary work (emotional support for two City fans during the Machester derby).


  64. Actually Philippa that is just what furuis has said to me. Seriously. He said that his gentrified part of London is safe and that if the worst happened he would get together with other rich types and set up private security.

    Scum. Jesus makes me want to go out and do some revolting - not revolving - as Alan Partridge so memorably said.

    There is another inequality thread just gone up and they are all over that too. Quote of the thread so far 'if i work sixteen hours a day I will be rich if I sit around having six kids and smoking i will be poor'

    Nearly beats the abortion one Jay - but not quite.

  65. Evening all

    In late and just fed myself with cheesy-chips. Cholesterol on a stick for the win!

    Haven't looked at CiF yet but I shall look for PCC's post on the Lawson thread.

    So tired I can't keep my eyes open so I shall prolly not be contributing much of any worth tonight.

    First person to say "no change there, then" gets a slap...

  66. Evening all! Just got back from a lovely dinner with Sheff. The princess was praised for her sterling rants today and the hideous trolls consigned back to pure underbridge status for good. (Come the revolution.)


    I'm real, I matter, everything else is just ... not real.

    That is a brilliant summing-up of their attitudes to life. Enjoy the footie.

  67. princess,

    getting sick of saying this(!) but great work again on the Riddoch thread.

    For all those who met up at the weekend. I know Bitterweed mentioned it the other day about your discussions regarding CiF and the editorial line and I'd be interested to hear your conclusions.

    I for the life of me can't work out where the reputation of cif and the Graun benefits from allowing the proactive trolls to completely dominate social issues and politics threads (I won't even go into the I/P threads).

    I know CiF would be targeted as it's a ''let's all wind up the pinkos'' lark, but the so called talk policy completely denigrates the place.

    How can posters of the past be banned when day after day after day the most offensive opinions about vast scopes of people (normally the poor and 'non-whites') are allowed to stay on threads?

    People above have mentioned even the right wing debaters of note seem to have left. All you have now is complete rabid pish.

    princesscc did a great job today, but they'll be back, 'boing, boing, boing' again tomorrow spouting the same shit.

    CiF is increasingly resembling the 'from the boards' Private Eye parody.

    Anyway, if anyone feels like telling me what the outcome of your CiF discussion was, I'd be much obliged.

  68. Duke - to be honest, no detailed memories remain of the discussions on Saturday, although I do remember some general disdain about Cif editorial policy.

    Sheff and I got on the subject this evening, though, and since the Saturday thingy (I think), Rusbridger has come out and said that he won't be charging for on-line content.

    I think he's looking at two things there: there will be more people who refuse to pay looking at the Guardian website, and, as he's got to generate income somehow, page-hits for on-line advertising is the way forward.

    So: an encouragement of asinine wind-up merchants and a discouragement of sensible discussion (because that might drive away the trolls). Above and below the line.


  69. Thauma,

    Think you're right there.

    Last word on the subject and I'm off. I just had a look at the Williams thread and it's a STONEWALL certainty that there's an organised campaign going on BTL. Just look at the comments.

    Night all.

  70. Will have a look tomorrow, I'm off to me pit too....

  71. Well I think I have spotted a paid sock-puppet on the Iraq War stuff - someone calling himself MrJohnWhite who has posted 102 posts since 22nd Jan, every single one of them confirming the legality of the invasion.


  72. Oh and can I just add my praise to PCC for her superb posts? I have clipped one of them. Brilliant.

  73. Hi All

    Duke--It looks beyond suspicion that collusion is taking place on the Williams bit.

    Philippa--Your friends will need a shoulder to weep into. Good contentious game with a few fiery moments. Have to say it was mostly one way traffic, and where was City's midfield?

    princess--Nice work today. The fuckers dismiss society as a whole. Nice.

  74. BB: Had a go at MrJohnWhite on the editorial thread by asking him if by his argument anybody who felt threatened by his warmongering would be justified to liquidate that threat pre-emptively.

    Afternoon Boudican

  75. Haven't looked at the Williams thread yet. Hi Medve & Boudican (and anyone else I haven't said hi to) x

  76. Hi Medve--What is it with these war lovers? Any reason at all seems to be justification. Would they send their own, or are arm chair generals just chickenshit fringe dwellers?

    Off to walk the 10 pound hound, will catch you later if you're about.

  77. Evening all, and thanks for all your kindness, ably demonstrating that there are good people out there on the intertubes, despite all the evidence to the contrary on CiF.
    BGreat work PCC on the Lawson thread where I briefly made a return to CiF, and then kinda lost the heart,knowing that we'll see more shite from the likes of spivvy Lawson (ex adviser and speech-writer to Balir and Brown, ex-lobbyist, ex-marketing and management consultant, now free-loading think-tanker removed from reality:the man's pursued-every single occupation vile,how despicable a CV is that)still trying to shore up labour.
    Atomboy's post on the arrogant and ignorant (deadly combination) Seaton is spot-on, and one of the reasons asides from the astroturfing from NewLab and NewCon, plus right-wing wingnuts, I felt deterred more and more from CiF before my recent bad news etc. To be fair to the paper, the Society bit is okay-ish and debate there is more reasoned, plus it's not overseen by Seaton, but the far nicer and wiser Patrick Butler (with whom I've corresponded amicably, despite not agreeing:Seaton can't do that, which is a sure-fire sign of an arse).
    By the way re my Dad. It was a pulomonary embolism killed him, probaly deriving from a hip op he had two and bit weks ago, so the CPR and mouth-to-mouth my wife did on saturday couldn't have saved him. The surgeon who did the op isn't to blame in any way: all surgery has potential complications (my Dad was a surgeon, and knew that well)but because the daeth came in relatively short order after the op, there's going to be an inquest, which won't be great, and I have to write a formal account of everything that happened on that hellish day.
    Anyhow, thanks again all for your support, and g'night.
    (PS even if I frequent CiF less in the future, I'll still come here,if I may)

  78. Just logged back on and had a quick peek at the Williams thread and I think I am going to actually explode! Fuck me. What has happened to the Guardian? Seriously more and more these days I spend my time on the bleeding Telegraph - because altough I hate their political stance they do have some damned good economics articles and business reporters and the threads below are not constantly full of the kind of idiot bile merchants in evidence on Cif.

    13thDuke - I think we can safely say there is definitely something going on on that thread and others. In fact it is obvious because if you look at an earlier thread on this - http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/jan/27/unequal-britain-report - the comments are totally different.

    Some site somewhere is definitely targeting the Guardian - I have mentioned it before on Waddya and never got an answer. But why oh why if they are going to allow these cretins to swarm all over the boards have they banned bloody good decent posters. I cannot imagine that any of the banned could ever have said anything that borders on the absolute hatefest going on on that thread against the poor. It is fucking criminal - they literally sound like Nazi's. The Guardian should be ashamed of itself and its policy on who it does and doesn't ban and what voices it allows to be heard. Oh how I long for a HankScorpio to go on there and tear them all a new one!

  79. Evenin' all.


    Love it - "You've got a one way ticket to Habibington, calling at Doghouse (Ohio), Untold (Missouri) and Palookaville (Stretford)."

    Good old Charlie, hey! (The man, not the powdery stuff, but I'm not one to judge...)

  80. Good to read your words again, Alisdair.

  81. Hi alisdair. Hope you're bearing up.

    One never gets over the loss of a parent, one simply learns to live differently eventually. Warmest hugs to you and yours x

    To everyone else - I can't seem to find the Williams thread and would welcome a linky. Brain = mash potato tonight. ta x

  82. Thanks, medve! On my way! :o)

    (I thought about saying "omw" and wondered how much of a geek that would make me :p )

  83. Have to bow out now, as i again have to take the younger one to get his throat looked at. We tried this morning, but there were fifty (yes 50) sick children waiting and only eight chairs. I reckoned my boy would run a high risk of being infected with so many poor children coughing there. We'll go really early this time.

    Good night, evening all ..

  84. ave, Alisdair - if I may venture an opinion, 'writing a formal account' may be hellish, but may also help you to get it 'out of you', and onto the next thing. Blesses.

  85. Oh, an BB - Mr Jonh White? oh yes - feel better about having gone at him summat yesterday,

    Boudican - he's phlegmaic. The one who turned up, that is. While it's good that Mancini is supporting 'da yoof', can't help thinking it'll be better when Viera is fit and Boyata can be kept for less problematic fixtures...

  86. anyway - night night all, am too spaced to make any sense at all...

  87. Medve

    Hope you manage to get it sorted, hon. Best wishes.

    Pip - I know what you mean about the spaced bit. Had a tough day but a good result, but I just can't cope with the neo-con trolls tonight so I am off to bed soon too.

    Besides! It is 12.45 am in froggy land - get to bed! :o)

  88. BB - loved the flies and excrement comment on the Williams thread. Quite brilliant.

  89. Welcome back Alisdair I only just just read your post, seemed to miss it before. I hope you are holding up okay. I remember the absolute shock and greif I felt when my dad died suddenly. It was as if I was looking at the world through some sort of bubble and couldn't quite connect with it. Suffice to say that I felt very strange, not just sad, for a wee while.

    I am sorry you have to re live it and write a formal account. This is only a suggestion and I hope I am not being too forward but I did visit Cruse bereavment a couple of times and found that helpful. My thoughts are with you.

  90. Zebedee time for me too, guys.

    Nighty night xx

  91. Ta PCC - I can't lay claim to it myself. Something my ex-father-in-law used to say every time someone made a daft populist statement. It has worn well though! :o)

  92. Hello,hello,hello is there anybody out there? Habibington? Cool name. Play me some African reggae. Juluka, Black Uhuru, do you know of them? Cheers man.