17 January 2010


Miguel de Cervantes's Don Quixote was first published in 1605.  Modoc warriors defeated the US Army in the First Battle of the Stronghold in 1873.  Raoul Wallenberg disappeared in Budapest while in Soviet custody in 1945.  The Great Hanshin Earthquake, measuring 7.3 on the Moment Scale, shook Kobe, Japan, in 1995, leaving more than 6,400 people dead.

Born today:  Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), Anne Brontë (1820-1849), David Lloyd George (1863-1945), Nevil Shute (1899-1960), Eartha Kitt (1927-2008), James Earl Jones (1931), Kip Keino (1940), Muhammad Ali (1942), Steve Earle (1955), Paul Young (1956), Keith Chegwin (1957), Andy Rourke (1964), Michelle Obama (1964), Naveen Andrews (1969), Cuauhtémoc Blanco Bravo (1973)*, Zooey Deschanel (1980)**, Alvaro Arbeloa (1983).

It is the feast day of St. Mildgytha in the Roman Catholic Church.

*Yeah, I never heard of him, either.  But isn't it a great name?  (Mexican footballer)
**You've probably never heard of her, but she was in a movie called 500 Days of Summer, for which my cousin did the Art Direction.  Gives me an excuse to tell you that.


  1. 1. Monkeyfish: Comment @ 16 January, 2010 23:12 just might be my favourite anywhere, ever.

    2. Welcome TurminderXuss and freespeechoneeach!

    3. My favourite feminist anthem.

    4. Weird covers: I once heard Richard Thompson sing Hit Me Baby, One More Time live on the radio. Yes, the Britney Spears song.

    5. Damn flat still isn't clean.

    6. Cinnamon should be joining the family on Wednesday, after being spayed.

  2. Morning Montana and all

    Agree about Monkeyfish's post. It reminded me of Hunter S Thomson's Kentucky Derby and other gambling disasters.

    Actually, it almost made me want to take up smoking and drinking and drug-taking again.

    So, how is everyone in the free world today?

  3. Thanks for the welcome, Monatana. :-)

    The free world's doing well, Atomboy! There's a piece in the Independent saying the US is waving the white flag in the War on Drugs.

    For some reason, my copy& paste isn't working here, (prolly a Mac thing...) so here's the link typed out,


    And I've just sent in a petition to 10 Downing Street calling for the classification of alcohol (not the same thing as prohibition!)

  4. freespeech

    That's a really good article in the Inde.

    Also liked the laughing policeman one on the performance culture of police & local authorities.

  5. Hi All, Ta Montana ;)

    The Peoples Republic of Alba is sunny with a crystal clear blue sky. Just before I crashed last night a tiny grey cat, with dirty white paws came in to the house, right to the living room door, my big tom cat meroooowOOOdd, a bit, hissed once and... ran off. This thing is tiny! Any way it ran off too, have to find out where it is from...

    LOVE thet Picasso 'Donkey-shot" used to have a print over the fireplace.

    Weird covers, there's a double cd by Tom Middleton (i think) crazy covers and beautiful covers, a corker.

    @ Freespeech, I is mac too! BB recomended using a cif comment box to do the formatting/linking thingies, then copy it. delete and close the cif page, and paste here, works a treat..

    I may even venture outside today, it looks that nice ;-}

  6. turminder - morning. when we lived next door to a veritable menagerie, the late lamented Minty (mongrel of the canine variety) was amusing himself one day chasing their cat, when said cat seemed to think 'sod this for a game of soldiers', stopped, turned round, hackles up, back arched, hissed at him, and gave him a wild swipe in the nose area.

    cue dog freezing in terror, legging it, and then refusing to go outside for several days until one of us had demonstrated that said demon cat was not hiding in the garden.

    i'd say 'animals are funny creatures', but by comparison i think we're probably dafter.

  7. Sisters on 6Music! Peel Session! Floorshow! Ah, how brilliant...

  8. Animal flow from the animal glands...

  9. Well, MAM is well and truly back - over on the Regine Chassagne thread. Being all heart as usual.

  10. Sheff - aye, saw him out and about on the Barbara Ellen thread, which, as it contains the phrase
    "On a wider level, I know in my heart that..."
    is taking a degree of sighing BTL...

  11. There are twin black-and-white cats here who sit side by side on the back windowsill behind my computer screen and stare at me until I let them in. They then wander around for a bit, and end up sitting at the front door and screaming until I let them out.

    This is what I'm reduced to in my second half-century; a cat runway and door-opener.

    The scene at the back window often resembles this classic:


  12. PeterJ - ha! that's a brilliant cartoon, will divert self watching them for a while!

  13. Morning all

    Nick Cohen is a twat.


  14. Have just read the Chassagne thread, and am wishing MAM had extended his holiday a bit longer. Thank God he's in the minority...

    Genuine shivers at this bit
    We cannot ­overestimate the strength and resilience of the brave people living in this country whose ancestors had to buy their own bodies back.

  15. @BB and @Philippa - I don't want to start a big fight, but I do think that both Nick Cohen and MAM have points worth arguing in their respective threads. There's too much knee-jerking in the responses to see them, maybe...

  16. PeterJ - I agree that there are different viewpoints on Haiti (haven't read the Cohen thread) but there are three main reasons why I didn't think his immediate contrariness was appropriate:
    1) it's a personal article relating primarily to the human tragedy - yes, she moves into politics, and I don't think she, as a non-journo, should be immune from criticism on that, but I think that given the immediacy of the issue, a bit more restraint would just be polite.
    2) "there is no reason to respect this view" as his opening salvo does make it clear what his approach is, and this involves a degree, perhaps, of being deliberately contrary
    3) factual issues - the independence levy, the votes for the Duvaliers - where there's a degree of 'sin of omission' going on in his presentation

    So I'm with the poster saying
    "This is a heartfelt appeal for charitable aid, "aid to the weak and suffering", written by someone clearly deeply shaken and hurt."
    and while it may make me a dreadful wet, I think that should be in one's mind when posting...

    Right - am going to try reading Cohen's piece to see if I can break my record for contradicting myself. heh heh

  17. Peter

    The problem with MAM is his relentless and inappropriate pedantry. This is a disaster of catastrophic proportions but all MAM can do is witter and nit pick it seems to me - he makes a profession of it and lots of us simply can't be arsed to get involved.

    Pulling apart an impassioned plea for support point by point in the way he has done is cold and soulless. Its about him bestriding the intellectual stage - he'll do it about anything, he's not fussy.

    Haven't read the Cohen piece but will have a look at it now.

  18. Hmmm. I'm guessing Cohen's piece was written before that Dutch panel gave its decision.

  19. @Philippa and @Sheff - I know what you mean, and it can be annoying. But on Haiti we have already had one egregious column blaming imperialism and the US, two cartoons comparing Haitians with bankers, and now what amounts to a personal appeal from a diaspora Haitian that could not leave it at that, but tacks blame on the end. That's annoying too.

    The Dutch decision, I don't know enough about yet. I'll go and check.

  20. PeterJ - and the problem with having points worth arguing is that they are less likely to be argued when there are also a lot of points worth ripping into. Picking out the good bits from a bad article can sometimes lead to a good debate (recall a Melissa McEwan thread like that) but sometimes one does feel like it's not worth addressing one mention of a good idea when there are lots of bad ones surrounding it.

    And the clear implication that anyone disagreeing with him is either
    a) pro-Saddam
    b) anti-semitic, or
    c) 'mentally deformed'
    or all three, does not make for one wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt...

  21. PeterJ - similarly, hadn't read the other Haiti threads - doesn't sound particularly edifying, but surely the 'imperialism' thread would have been a better target for MAM than Chassagne's...

    BB on the Cohen thread is good, particularly on the number of decisions as to the import of UN Res 1441.

  22. I am guessing Cohen's piece was written after the Dutch panel gave their ruling and after Campbell's risible performance. It is the last cry of the child criticised for bullying to say:

    You're only saying that because you hate me, and anyway the people I bullied are the real bullies and you are just all ganging up on me now because you like them not me.

    Which seems to be the essence of his retort.

  23. Ditto Phillipa. I didn't support the war but whatever anyone thinks about its legality the fact that its results have been utterly and predictably disastrous, not just for Iraqis but all of us is indisputable imo and responsibility needs to be taken for that.

    Cohen You must now prepare yourself for the return of the Jewish conspiracy theory to supposedly honourable discourse. Indeed, if you look around, you will find it is already there.

    That may be true in Islingingtonia but not with anyone I know - seems a spurious thing to introduce and provocative too.

  24. Peter

    The problem I have with it is summed up in comments on the thread. We know the invasion was legal because Tony Blair said so, and we are supposed to swallow that. If they are so sure they were acting lawfully, why the reluctance to release Goldsmith's legal advice at the time? There are plenty of very learned people out there who say it was unlawful. Let the dog see the bloody rabbit, ffs, then we can have it out once and for all.

  25. And I appreciate that I am probably very boring about this, because I am looking at it from a uniquely legal perspective. I can't help it. I've been lobotomised. :o)

  26. @Philippa - I don't think Cohen is doing that, and I just read it again to make sure I saw what I thought I did. He's saying that there was a moral case for intervention in Iraq, and that the obsession with arguable illegality and Blair lying is an unjustifiable denial of that case that leads those so obsessed into dodgy areas.

    Which I still find a point worth making.

  27. PeterJ - aye, but it might be better to make that moral case without the rest of it?

    BB - not boring in your 'uniquely legal perspective' - would have been happy for a 'partly legal perspective' when it happened, to be honest witcha. Am learning stuff. learning is good.

    PS - blatant misuse of UT cabal membership - have suggested an open thread on sandwich fillings on Waddya. C'mon peeps, this is a live issue...

  28. Sheff

    It is worse that spurious and provocative, imo. It is waving the great big anti-semitic stick at anyone who disagrees with his analysis, and that is repugnant.

  29. phillipa
    but surely the 'imperialism' thread would have been a better target for MAM than Chassagne's...

    Agree - I haven't read the thread so don't know whether MAM contributed. Mind you he's never averse to a soft target.


    but tacks blame on at the end

    To take apart her whole piece because of a bit tacked on at the end in this context - ie a muso, not a journo, with a personal connection pleading for support for a major catastrophe seems inhumane to me.

  30. @BB - I am no legal expert, but having just read up briefly on the Dutch panel decision, it doesn't seem to get us much further. Is there, really, a framework of international law with any meaningful jurisdiction outside the UN Security Council? If so, what are the real consequences for any nation state in breaking international law? (Genuine questions, BTW, I don't know the answers or even have much of a guess.)

    @Sheff - the antisemitism thing might be a distraction, but it is worrying how someone like Oliver Miles can say the kind of thing he did in the Independent without anyone turning a hair. And outside Islingtonia, there is no shortage of antisemitism in CiF threads. Some examples were deleted in the comments to Cohen's piece, and some by raymonddelauney are still there.

  31. BB

    It is worse that spurious and provocative, imo

    You're right, but I'm trying to stay calm today as the teeth grinding is making my jaw ache.

  32. @Sheff - I agree with you that it's unfair to criticise the Haiti piece for the bit tacked on the end, and I wouldn't have done it myself. But there is a cumulative effect to the Guardian/Observer world view in these matters, which I suspect we'll see more of.

    On second thought, though, MAM was wrong to put that criticism there and should have posted it on the blatant earlier one. So I withdraw even my muted support.

  33. Peter

    there is no shortage of antisemitism in CIF threads

    Agree - but there's no shortage of all kinds of lunatic views on cif - antisemitism is just one of them and it seems to me Cohen dropped it in to his piece as a provocation.

    I am concerned about how anti semitism is being talked up these days - its becoming a self fulfilling prophesy and making it impossible to discuss certain things - a cheap shot from Cohen in my view. Will now go and read the Independent piece.

  34. Gosh, there's been some major cleaning up on the Cohen thread. The worst delauney efforts have been disappeared.

  35. PeterJ

    Therein lies the rub. Even if the war was declared unlawful, what are the consequences in international law? None, really. Nobody is able to come along and arrest Blair at the moment because the ICC does not have a mandate to try a country's leader for embarking on an unlawful war, and the UN cannot enforce of its own volition UN resolutions of any kind - it takes member states to take up the cudgels (which is why Israel, for example, has managed to blithely ignore dozens of UMSC resolutions with impunity).

    It would still be satisfying to have the war declared unlawful, though. Well, it would for me.

    And as I said, just because Blair can't be prosecuted at the moment doesn't mean that that will be the case in 10 or 20 years.

  36. "just because Blair can't be prosecuted at the moment doesn't mean that that will be the case in 10 or 20 years"

    What was that drama about Blair facing charges at the Hague? Could be a while ago - if anyone can remember the title, I'll try to track that down, could be interesting...

  37. Peter
    Have you got a link to that Oliver Miles piece as I can't find it.

  38. @BB - thanks for that, which confirms what I sort of thought. I remember the arguments about jurisdiction etc when the ICC was being set up, and the countries remaining outside it. So the pursuit of Blair over legality really is pointless for now, then?

  39. Phillipa/BB

    Robert Harris has written a book 'The Ghost" about a British ex PM, very close to the Americans, who was indicted as a war criminal. Good read if you've got the time.

  40. http://webmail.amnesty.org.uk/_act/link.php?mId=J821089596610705934746402215&tId=1579109

    **URGENT: Save our war crimes legislation**

    Dear Supporter,

    We urgently need your help to prevent the Government from seriously undermining
    the law on Universal Jurisdiction. If the government are successful, magistrates
    will lose their powers to issue arrest warrants for foreign nationals visiting
    the UK who are suspected of the worst human rights violations. We expect an
    announcement on a legislation change this week ~V please email Gordon Brown
    Take action at: http://webmail.amnesty.org.uk/_act/link.php?mId=J821089596610705934746402215&tId=1579110

    *What is Universal Jurisdiction?
    Universal Jurisdiction allows national courts to prosecute anybody suspected of
    serious human rights violations such as genocide and war crimes committed
    anywhere in the world.

    *What is Universal Jurisdiction?
    Universal Jurisdiction allows national courts to prosecute anybody suspected of
    serious human rights violations such as genocide and war crimes committed
    anywhere in the world.

    *What would be the consequences of the change?
    The UK could become a safe haven for the world~Rs worst criminals. In seeking to
    avoid any future attempts to prosecute suspected war criminals, the Government
    would subvert the judiciary~Rs independence and integrity, it would fail to meet
    its commitments under international law and it would also undermine the rights
    of victims to obtain justice, truth and reparations.

    *Why is Amnesty objecting so strongly?
    No person and no country is above the law and whether we are talking about
    Israel, Sudan, Congo or Rwanda, there should be an absolute commitment from
    Britain to help detain and bring to trial those suspected of the world~Rs worst

    Take action today by emailing the Prime Minister. There's still time to save
    our war crimes legislation, but we must act now. Find out more on this issue:

    Thank you for your support.

    Kristyan Benedict
    Campaign Manager
    Crisis Response & Country Priorities

    If you have any queries or feedback about this email or Amnesty's work, please
    get in touch with our Supporter Care team on sct@amnesty.org.uk or on +44 (0)20
    7033 1777.

    Amnesty International UK is a company limited by guarantee. Registered in
    England no 01735872, registered office:

  41. @Sheff - yep, have one somewhere...

    Here it is.

  42. Sheff - yup, have that - and there's a film of it, but as it is/was directed by polanski a) am a bit conflicted and b) not sure when it's out - there are plans for it get a release in February, after the Berlinale...

  43. Interesting Peter - I see it was written back in November and after wikiing Miles I note he's an old Middle East Hand and an Arabist - so he no doubt has an agenda of his own. Is Cohen the first to take the "Jewish conspiracy' thing up with the Chilcot inquiry - or have I just missed the fact that it's been going on?

  44. How crazy is this - a very late post from Medve yesterday........

    "Medve said...
    Just to round off the earlier rude theme, here is a pearl from imogenblack posted on the previous WDYWTTA which had been left open accidentally apparently:

    15 Jan 2010, 11:53AM

    Gosh... has Cif gone home for the weekend early..? How come this is still open... ooo... naughty... its like being home alone... if no ones watching... can I say cunts?? Cunts cunts cunts...

    6 recommends
    17 January, 2010 03:46

    Medeve from your post @ 3.46 am - she now has 9 recommends on a thread that has been closed for a while... The world is full of nuts.

  45. deano - to be fair, that post made me chuckle...

  46. Pursuing him is probably a waste of time, yeah. But declaring the war illegal isn't, imo.

    So far, the ICC only has jurisdiction over genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes - none of these really fit the bill. Crimes of agression are on the statute book but the definition has not been agreed by the contracting parties, so the ICC won't exercise its jurisdiction in this area until it is sorted.

    However, what is interesting is that the ICC can act in relation to any crimes committed after the Rome Statute bringing it into force in 2002, or if a country joined afterwards, after the date they joined. There is nothing about not being able to retrospectively apply the crimes of agression clauses once the terms have been agreed upon. Woohoo. :o)

    Medve - thanks for that! That is all the business surrounding whether the government should have a say in when, why and how arrest warrants are issued under the Universal Jurisdiction laws, following the warrant issued for Tsipi Livni.

  47. Sheff - it wasn't my desire to be offensive that started my interest in female genitals.....

    Here is the first extract from the OED for


    [ME. cunte, count(e), corresponding to ON. kunta (Norw., Sw. dial. kunta, Da. dial. kunte), OFris., MLG., MDu. kunte:Gmc. *kuntn wk. fem.; ulterior relations uncertain.]

    1. The female external genital organs. Cf. QUAINT n.
    Its currency is restricted in the manner of other taboo-words: see the small-type note s.v. FUCK v.

    [c1230 in Ekwall Street-Names of City of London (1954) 165 Gropecuntelane.] a1325 Prov. Hendyng (Camb. Gg. I. 1) st. 42 Yeue i cunte to cunnig and craue affetir wedding. c1400 Lanfranc's Cirurg. 172/12 In wymmen e necke of e bladdre is schort, & is maad fast to the cunte. c1425 Castle of Perseverance (1904) 1193 Mankynde, my leue lemman, I my cunte ou schalt crepe. 1552 LYNDESAY Satyre Procl. 144 First lat me lok thy cunt, Syne lat me keip the key..........................................

    I had quite forgotten but somebody once told me this years ago............[c1230 in Ekwall Street-Names of City of London (1954) 165 Gropecuntelane.] ......

    Who wouldn't want to live on that lane?

    Happily dear Sheff the latest 2008 entry in the OED is more akin to my views on ladies bits...........


    cunt, n.

    cunt-struck adj. coarse slang infatuated, esp. sexually, with a woman or women in general (cf. LOVE-STRUCK adj.).

    1876 Romance of Lust IV. 87 He..became in fact *cunt-struck upon her. 1879 Harlequin Prince Cherrytop 29 Changed from the gorgeous king to a buffoon, Be weak-kneed, cunt-struck, fucked-out Pantaloon. 1975 S. BELLOW Humboldt's Gift 204 Were we to end our lives as cunt-struck doddering wooers left over from a Goldoni farce? 2003 London Rev. Bks. 21 Aug. 6/2 On the one hand, I was too inhibited; on the other, I was already terminally cunt-struck.

    What a beautiful sentiment ......"..I was already terminally cunt-struck.".....I think I was born that way.

  48. hmm, describing something as 'quaint' is going to take on an additional element in future...

    it's in chaucer too - "queynte" (two sylls) - not that the rude bits are the only bits I remember, but...
    twas on the sexte morwe may...

  49. Apologies, still playing at being bob-the-builder so did not correct the character set errors, nor did i put in the proper hrefs. off again.

  50. Medve - Thats probably Imogens best post and had I seen it I would have recommended it too!

    Deano - I know you weren't being offensive - its just that outside Glasgow, the only time I ever hear cunt used is as a serious term of abuse which does affect the way I feel about the word.

  51. I only just spotted that one of Imogen's. What thread is it on, people? I shall go and recommend it too! :o)

  52. Sheff - in the wilder reaches of East Yorks, we speak of little else...


  53. Damn, provoked into expressing my opinion. I a had a good laugh at imogen's joke and did not find it offensive. However, as a prob. hetero vanilla male, I find its use as a swearword intensely offensive.

  54. cuntstruck rather than cuntybaws I imagine Deano


  55. Jarvis Cocker is playing the A&tJs version of Crazy in Love... as with the 'oops' over last night, sometimes covers can kid you into forgetting the original!

  56. Medve

    It seems the use of the word as a term of abuse is comparatively modern:


    2. Applied to a person, esp. a woman, as a term of vulgar abuse.

    1929 F. MANNING Middle Parts of Fortune I. viii. 159 What's the cunt want to come down 'ere buggering us about for, 'aven't we done enough bloody work in th' week? 1932 ‘G. ORWELL’ Coll. Essays (1968) I. 88 Tell him he's a cunt from me. 1934 H. MILLER Tropic of Cancer (1935) 28 Two cunts sail inAmericans. 1956 S. BECKETT Malone Dies 99 They think they can confuse me... Proper cunts whoever they are. 1965 V. HENRIQUES Face I Had 69 ‘What d'you think you're doing, you silly cunt?’ the driver shouts at her.

    Orwell was quick off the mark....

    Enuf the topic can become a bore.

  57. The way we live/work now:

    From the Observer - news in brief

    More than 200 employees at two factories run by the Edwards electronics firm were sacked by a video message and told the company was moving its manufacturing to South Korea and the Czech Republic


  58. That's a grim note Sheff by this time next year I wouldn't be surprised to be reading "......... and the workers were invited to call around the factory in South Korea to pick up their redundancy pay"

    That cow Thatcher unleashed a mind set that has not yet run its course.

  59. Hey, Everybody! I had a message in my inbox from Alisdair this morning. He's not able to post right now, it seems -- the problem with the comment box not appearing. He did read today's thread and he e-mailed me to say that, while he hasn't seen 500 Days of Summer, he has seen a short promo video that the thought many of us would like to see. He forwarded the link to me to post for you.

    I must confess that I haven't had the opportunity to see the entire film myself, yet, as my town is far too small to have been in the distribution list for an independent film like this one and it's only just come out on DVD recently. I do know that it got rave reviews when it came out. I should probably make a note to order it on payday -- or when the money from the Graun shows up in my bank -- whichever comes first!

    Thanks, Alisdair! (And I better go look at the Blogger tech support site to see what's up with this thing of people not getting a comment box. Really frustrating on a site where the comments are the most important part of the site!)

  60. hmm, describing something as 'quaint' is going to take on an additional element in future...

    {Dons English grad hat}

    Actually, the word 'quaint' has no etymological connection to cunt/queynte, 'Quaint' comes from the Old French word 'cointe', which itself comes from the Latin 'cognitus', which I'm sure you'll probably recognise.

    So how, I hear you asking, did a word meaning, "piquantly or attractively unfamiliar or old-fashioned" come from the past participle of the Latin verb cognoscere, which means to ascertain? Well, the original meaning of the English word 'quaint' was 'wise' or 'cunning'.

    There will be a test on Friday.

  61. I don't know, however, if the Scots word 'quean' is etymologically related to 'cunt'. Must say that it seems a more likely connection. Any of our Scottish contingent know?

  62. Hello people,
    Montana I saw 500 Days of Summer over the christmas holidays. Me and ma nieces loved it whilst my brother was howling that he was forced to watch a chick flick.
    As for "spotting MAM", wish I hadn't as it was the last thing I read last nite and pissed me off to no end.
    Anyways touch back in later, if anyone around.

  63. Thank you miss.

    Thought a 'quean' was just a girl? may have to stop using that on scrabble...

  64. Mchica -- that's funny about your brother. I remember reading one of the reviews, written by a man, that said in all caps, "THIS IS NOT A CHICK FLICK".

    I've just seen the first 50 comments on the Chassagne thread. Can't stomach any more -- it isn't just MaM. There were fuckwits defending the cruel ratbastard. Unfuckingbelievable.

    Phil -- yes. A quean is a girl. But remember, cunt hasn't always been a vulgar word.

  65. Montana - quean


    2. Sc. Freq. in form quine. A young woman, a girl, a lass; esp. one with a youthful bloom or a healthy appearance. Also: a daughter.

    but also

    1. Originally: a woman, a female. Later: a bold or impudent woman; a hussy; spec. a prostitute. Also in extended use.
    In early Middle English as a general term of abuse, passing (esp. in 16-17th centuries) into a more specific term of disparagement.

    Please Miss, the romantic in me prefers the former to the latter miss.


    PS - almost impossible to make a suggestion to make this site more interesting now that you have the numbers of daily postings that you do ......but if we encounter a slack period sometime down the road.........have you thought about the live link to the OED's "word of the day" along with your great pictures and daily openers it might be worth a consideration.

    (It's free from the OED website.)

    You have enough talented posters here to run a competition at the week ends - eg first to write a sentence with all five random OED words, of the previous week, in...

  66. A recent QI saw allan Davies asking Fry, S, why 'the front bottom' (his words) was known as 'Pussy'. Dunno if this is true but, someone told me Gaelic for lips was 'bussidh' and this had crossed he atlantic and returned as pussy...

  67. This comment has been removed by the author.

  68. This is an example of Scots usage of 'quean' from the invaluable Wiki Scots-English shelf -

    I no' mind o' the wife bein sae upliftit wi onythin, aa the time we've been thegither, as wi
    me bein made an elder. I was made muckle o, thae days, I can tell ye; there was naethin ower guid
    for Jims; it minded me o' the time whan I was coortin her, four-an'-thretty year syne. An' whan it
    cam roun' to the Saiturday nicht afore the day I was to be ordained, what I büde to gae through in
    the way o' reddin up!--she was that fiky, ye micht ha' thocht I was some young quean bein buskit for
    her waddin.

    More here if you feel the urge! -

    I think 'quean' could be used in parts of Scotland for a young man just as 'bitch' was used to apply to men as well as women - as in Lord Kames' farewell to his fellow judges ' fare ye a 'weel ye bitches!'.

  69. Gegenbeispiel
    17 Jan 2010, 5:09PM Waddya,

    Playing with fire, eh, BB?

  70. "Actually, the word 'quaint' has no etymological connection to cunt/queynte"



    Now arch. (rare after late 16th cent.)

    [< QUAINT adj. (compare later QUAINT n.2), either punningly after CUNT n. or as a euphemistic substitution for that word.]

    The female external genitals. Cf. CUNT n.

    c1330 (?a1300) Sir Tristrem (1886) l. 2254 Hir queynt abouen hir kne, Naked e knites knewe. c1390 CHAUCER Miller's Tale 3276 This hende Nicholas Fil with this yonge wyf to rage and pleye..and pryuely he caughte hire by the queynte. c1415 CHAUCER Wife of Bath's Tale (Corpus Oxf.) 608 And trewely, as myn housbond tolde me, I hadde e beste queynte [Heng quonyam] at mighte be. c1576 T. WHYTHORNE Autobiogr. (1961) 128 A queint, A queint, hee kried bianby. 1598 J. FLORIO Worlde of Wordes, A womans quaint or priuities. 1659 G. TORRIANO Florio's Vocab. Ital. e Inglese, Dóndola, any thing, toy, fancy, or conceit to passe away the time withall, any dalliance, dandling, or wantonizing.., by Met. a womans quaint.

    Now can we stop talking about ladies delights - I'll never get to sleep tonight..

  71. turminder - re 'pussy' - interesting explanation, but then why are there feline-related words for said hoo-hoo in other languages, eg
    - chatte in literal french, means a female cat, but nobody ever uses it for that
    - muschi in german isn't directly a 'cat word' but is a pet's name (it was the name of one of anne frank's cats, btw)

  72. turminder -

    Fry has his own copy of the OED

    so he will have known:


    pussy n.

    3. coarse slang.

    a. The female genitals; the vulva or vagina.
    to eat pussy: to perform cunnilingus (cf. EAT v.).

    1699 T. DURFEY Choice Coll. New Songs 7 Johnny..many Times Pussey had fed. 1790 A. TAIT Poems & Songs 144 Thro' Susan's Holland smock or spare Or on her pussie for to stare. 1865 ‘PHILOCOMUS’ Love Feast I. 9 My poor pussy , rent and sore, Dreaded yet longed for one fuck more. 1879-80 Pearl (1970) 268 Her legs are wide open showing the red lips and clitoris of her pussey. 1879 Pearl Oct. 108 To handle, feel, and revel in such a luxuriously covered pussy and bottom, excited me more every moment. 1899 Mem. Dolly Morton 88 Two, or three of them put their hands on the ‘spots’‘pussies’ they called them. 1913 L. STRACHEY Ermyntrude & Esmeralda (1969) ii. 12 I'm also sure that it's got something to do with the thing between our legs that I always call my Pussy. 1941 G. LEGMAN Lang. Homosexuality in G. W. Henry Sex Variants II. 1174 Pussy, to eat, to perform cunnilinctus [sic]. 1962 J. BALDWIN Another Country I. i. 63 You wouldn't be putting that white prick in no more black pussy. 1967 M. MCCLURE Freewheelin Frank i. 8 When we talk about eating pussy we make it sound as dirty and vulgar as possible. 1973 A. POWELL Temporary Kings v. 258 Louis's stuffed a charming little cushion with hair snipped from the pussies of ladies he's had. 1999 D. CENTURY Street Kingdom iii. 122 Once in a while I used to have her carry some of my compressed coke in her pussy. 2006 N. S. DHALIWAL Tourism x. 214 She was a great girl; she taught me how to eat pussy, and what to look for when having sex.

    Right that does it - I'm off for a cold shower..

    Pussy is also prison slang for attractive young men!!

  73. which leads us on to why men use animals to describe women?

    Horsey, err...

    In Punjabi 'Kutha' dog, is a good insult for a fella, and 'Kuthi' is just a straight equivalent to bitch. I asked my A-level english teacher a similar question, she replied, "who can say? It's like why does the word 'stupid' sit so well in front of the word man?"

  74. I'm suddenly reminded of that silly old joke about the prison joke book - the one where the guys walking in the exercise yard just used to mention a number at random ....and then after a short pause they would all fall over laughing.

    I guess if we all got free access to the OED through our local libraries then somebody could just post a word........ and the rest of us could just drift off into bliss....

  75. Hi All--Welcome to turminderxuss and freespeechoneach2.

    deano--I like your word of the day idea, here's a different slant on it:

    Little Johnny (8 years old) goes to school one day. The teacher, Miss Grimes says " Good morning children, today, in keeping with lessons in vocabulary usage, we will talk about the word 'lovely'. You will each use that word in a sentence. Emily, you go first."

    Emily-" Today my mum said to Mrs Jones next door 'What a lovely garden you have this year' "

    Miss Grimes-" Very good Emily, ok Johnny, your turn."

    Johnny-" Last night we were having supper and my sister, who is 15, told my dad she is pregnant. My dad said 'Lovely, just fucking lovely."

  76. turminder - also:

    [fetches feminist conspiracy-hat]

  77. Sheff et al. Re the anti semitism discussion. There was a really interesting programme on More 4 ( I think) last week called Defamation. It was by Yoav Shamir and asked what anti-Semitism is. I think it is still viewable on t'internet on 4 On Demand. Worth a watch.

    The pets gallery is going great guns - nice new additions. Montana - are you excited about the arrival of the kitten?

  78. Glad to see you around PCC

    Stoaty - Annetan42 ....you guys ok?

  79. deano--This research of words may be an 'in' with that young librarian you mentioned a while back.

    turminderxuss--Nothing to do with animals, but an expression I've heard to describe a pretty lady is 'wrenchface'--As in 'Every time I see her, my nuts tighten up.'

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  81. Hello Boudican

    Having dug out the bad wood I am thinking of impregnating what is left with an inorganic salt solution which is supposed to give the remaining wood good fire and bug resistance. worth wait till tomorrow? or is slaked lime also good?

  82. "deano--This research of words may be an 'in' with that young librarian you mentioned a while back."

    I just love the idea of public service and fine lady public servants. I'm not at all ageist.

  83. deano--I always suspected that your motives were purely altruistic.(-:

    Montana--Is Cinnamon home yet?

    BTW--Have seen Blanco Bravo play (We get many Mexican games here) and he can pot the goals. Bit of a petulant plonker though.

  84. Good post on trolls from coruja at 6.30pm on the Chassagne thread which included this

    conversation hackers

    which includes an excellent definition of MAM and bitey.

  85. Medve--Good idea, should help stop any further dry rot. Slaked lime is fine for that purpose too.

  86. Heheh- that link is excellent, Sheff.

  87. Very good link there Sheff. Here's a link JYD put up back in october that i found interesting..

  88. Hi everyone.

    Just a very brief visit to say hi from Cornwall.

    My departure was delayed by snow, but I finally made it down on Wednesday.

    I've had a bit of an explore over the past few days, as well as being put to work, and the scenery is just as amazing as when I was here in the autumn.

    Got rained on yesterday, but today was bright and warm. The sight of the sun on the sea from the top of the cliffs is breath-taking. I'll try to get some photos up when I can.

    There's no internet in the cottage where I'm living, but I can use the computer in the office, at least afterhours.

    So, hope all is well with everyone.

    See you again soon(ish)

  89. I have updated the Catalogue of folly because of the Indy article freespeech linked to.

  90. Yay andy! Glad to hear you got there safely eventually!

    Would love to see some pix

    J x

  91. Is it choonz time yet?

    I'll start with this

    Sounds great Andy - we will expect regular bulletins...

  92. Good to hear from you Andy - I had been thinking about your probable journey.

    Sheff & turminder - your links make for depressing and disturbing reading.

    This from the JYD link:

    "He paused. “The question we have to answer is: How do we kill four of the world’s six billion people in the most just way possible?" He seemed excited to have said this aloud."

    I know them twats are out there that's why I keep away from any thread that MAM posts on.

    The agenda these sad bastards work to is never far from the above. We have had posters here on UT who imho many think are decent jokers, but I sometimes think they wouldn't think twice about exterminating my grand kids so his daughter's donkey could have more hay and carrots.

    I'll end on a more cheerful note - tonight for the first night in many, a clear sky and a view of the stars...

  93. a clear sky and a view of the stars...

    Same here Deano...it's beautiful. I hear there's more snow on the way on Wednesday, but it just might be a filthy rumour.

  94. deano:

    I know them twats are out there that's why I keep away from any thread that MAM posts on.

    hear hear.

  95. here is another for Haiti. My moby is on Orange if you txt DONATE to 864223 you'll give £2.50 to unicef children in Haiti appeal..

  96. Turminder

    Is that only for Orange mobile, do you know'?

  97. Hi andy. Glad you find it still as beautiful as when you left it. Keep in touch.

    Sheff - yep it is true - allegedly heavy snow wednesday or thursday. Although the met office are saying it is only a possibility right now.

    We have not had our bins emptied for five weeks now and I was moaning about yet another bin bag in the garage today and then I turned on the news and saw the unfolding horrors in Haiti and felt thoroughly ashamed.

    I just have to say that MonkeyFish - your epic post yesterday was one of the finest I have ever seen on the interwebs. Brilliant.

  98. Big YO! to andysays.

    Do you need a lodger?

    Hello to t'others round here tonight.

  99. Sorry BB, dunno if it is only Orange..

    Off to th land o nod...

  100. An experimental post from the pub on my phone...

    Damn it, paste doesn't work properly in Blogger. Was going to do another link to Burnin Red Ivanhoe, since everyone seemed to miss it the other night. Oh well.

    Raising a glass to you, Andy.

  101. Hey Peter

    Mine's a vodka and coke, ta! :o)

  102. Cheers, BB! Any more orders at the bar?

  103. I'll have a little whine, Peter.

    A little whine about our hostess. Spit it out, Montana. I'm looking for a public explanation at least, an apology at best.

  104. I'll have a large one Peter...no water thank you

  105. Hank

    An apology about what - since you've gone public?

    Think you'd better make that a large g 'n t Peter.

  106. It had better be good Hank - star as you are even the best tarnish without care.

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  108. Now that sense as broken out - have a great time at Warwick all.

    Still hoping your going to start posting here again Hank.

  109. Hank - you and the Fish are coming too - great news! Am really looking forward to it. Depending on MsC for a lift as won't have a car next Saturday.

    Here's a tune

    Gloomy Sunday

    Lovelymelancholy blues from Billie Holiday

  110. Bloody hell Hank - have you changed your mind that quickly?

  111. well done andy, hope settling in goes well.

    watched deja vu earlier. unbelievably confused, which is in this case only partly down to the language barrier. anyone?

  112. Am in frenzied negotiations with the Fish, sheff. Won't be able to confirm until Thursday.

    When he picks up his giro, da scouse git(-;

    But, yeh, am hoping to make it.


  113. Sheff - I love Ms Holiday but a video with a horse drawn hearse...?

    Here I am with the fever of the flu and wild thoughts about ladies bits. I was already on for wild dreams...............now I'm going to be sweating all night.............was me death down to the flu...............or was it 'cos of me wickidness.

    Fuck I am glad I'm not a Catholic (left footed person) going to bed tonight.

  114. It was called Gloomy Sunday Deano.

    Going to bed unshriven in your state - dangerous stuff. Have happy dreams of ladies parts and other joys....

    Here's a marginally jollier one

  115. Hank - i really hope you do make it.

  116. Catherine Bennett's blog today, eh? What a pile of smug, self-justifying shite that is. Kudos to xblokex for their posts.

  117. Sheff - I is a grown up, I can deal with gloomy Sundays.

    It's the hoss drawn glass sided hearse that gives me the worry.

    That is simply no way for a Viking existentialist would Quaker to depart.

    I liked your second tune, but there was some chain rattling ghost theme there - are you trying to tell me summat?

  118. Eh up Hank :o)

    CB's blog is not worth my finger energy. Poor poor freedom of expression. What she means is the freedom to write anything they want on a blog without anyone having the freedom to reply.

    I was one of those that defended Max Gogarty at the time though - he was only a young lad, and he was thrown to the bloody lions. The Graun should never have published it for comment.

  119. Right - I have just about got to the same part of Troy on the telly where I got bored with the dvd. And I'm bored now and there is still more than an hour of it to go... so I am off to bed! :o)

    Night night all x

  120. Just watching that woman who played Vera Drake (I don't know about film actress/actors) on BBC4. I did't see the film but I read the reviews.

    She is class. I'll watch out for her now I know that she exists. A lady with the benefit of teeth which suite her face.

    I don't know her name - its Irish and multiple forenames.....?

  121. An actress with multiple forenames?

    Fucking Goalhanger Hermione Gingold?

    Pretty sure it's Imelda Staunton actually, deano. Not seen the film. The only decent film with abortion as a plot device is of course Saturday Night Sunday Morning.

    And why the fuck Albert Finney was knocking off Rachel Roberts when he had Shirley Anne Field to hand remains a mystery to me.

  122. Gingold my brother is not an Irish name even tossers like me know that.

    It was Imelda now I can Wiki it......Imelda Mary Philomena Bernadette Staunton, was the ladies name.

    Oh my day is further saddened Finney looked the other way when Shirley Anne was in the room?

    What a fucking wanker, a half baked tosser, an inconsequential sometime cunt. If I was General Secretary of Equity I'd have his card marked tommorrow...

  123. There are some constructs which are plausible and then there those which just don't scan.....

    Imelda.....I don't suppose..? - scans

    Imelda Mary...I don't.......? -don't scan

    Imelda Philomena..I don't suppose..? - 50/50

    Imelda Bernadette.............. don't expect your money back

  124. Mornin' all, you know when you get a song in your head and you can't shake it off? This one's been mine for a few days now.

  125. Good night all - as ever enjoyed your company.

  126. habib - I cant rush away now you linked the man...

    I loved it - I could be here a while whilst I go back through the Orb catalogue

  127. as the punter said on the sit:

    "This is the first song that ever made me cry. I was lucky enough to see him sing live twice. Both times he never sang a bum note. An extraordinary talen and the absolute antidote to people like the Gallagher brothers."

  128. Montana my dearest, I do adore you - but if you put Keith Chegwin's birthdate at last day's time next year ...............I shall reconsider my position.

    The tosser is widely regarded at this side of the pond as a tosser.

  129. habib - I just loved it..." I'm going back some day"

    You fuckin bet bro

  130. The vid flick makes the case - a fine piece of art

  131. Nanci Griffith just doesn't get enough airtime on Radio UT.

    (The studio version, with Tanita Tikaram on backing vocals is better, but unavailable on YouTube)

  132. That was nice Montana - a fine songstress with the light shining in her hair. I'd not heard the lass before but was well pleased.

  133. a fine road song

    That lady has a fine vocal range Montana - I liked to be disturbed by ladies with presence.

  134. well my dear friends the flu medicine takes it toll....I'm falling asleep.

    habib a few nights ago you asked me if I would rerun it from 18............. the answer brother is no.

    I don't think I could be that lucky twice.

  135. Before I fall - a final comment

    That Nanci woman was a very fine singer Montana but ladies like her kinda spoil it. 'Cos when they sing they are women, but when they use their speaking voices they sound like immature posturing girls.

    What's with so many potentially fine female singers in the USA - were they all abused or does it help to sell records over there if they sound as though they might have been when they talk?

    Night miss.

  136. deano, your last post????
    Song from a coincidentally female singer.

  137. Wrong choice of word - the lady don't sound an abused child so much as a manipulated or controlled one.

    What the feg do I know.

  138. Ah habib - the delightfully shaggable Jewess from North London....

    Hope the shift goes well brother.

  139. I guess I don't hear that, Deano. I just hear a woman with a soft speaking voice.

  140. A couple of guilty pleasures:

    Guilty Pleasure #1

    Guilty pleasure #2

    (Am I a bad person for being just a wee bit sad that Richard bats for the other side?)

  141. I guess it's just an unfamiliar accent for me Montana. I always find the contrast between the speaking and singing voices of some American female singers quite unexpected - almost to the point of a discordant note. What the feg would I know I can't sing at all....


    Elkie Brooks

    This lady is still touring in the UK at 60+ years of age she is a class gig. I went to see her last summer she is well worth taking a shift off next time she is your vicinity.

    I kinda think she's a Jewess too - whatever she is one hot lady and still a great performer.

  142. Oh lovely Montana what is with you class lasses and the other side.

    Did you happen to note BB's comment a while ago that she lost both a boyfriend and a husband to the other team..?

    Them Kings & Queens they blind your eyes and steal your dreams.....


  143. This used to rattle my cage:

    Elkie even better

    Night guys.

  144. Gonna play a little number in honor of Martin luther king Day and the Haiti disaster

  145. Thanks Medve,
    Just read Wyclef charity is being investigated, yikes hope not! Posting a another song and keeping my fingers crossed, him being one of my favs and all

  146. Cheers Mchica, just had to see one of my boys off to school.