21 May 2009

Daily Chat 21/05/09

Not one of the more exciting days, this.  In 996, Otto III is crowned Holy Roman Emperor.  In 1894, the Manchester Ship Canal is opened.  And in 1904, FIFA was founded.  Celebrating birthdays:  Leo Sayer, Al Franken and Lisa Edelstein.  In Cameroon, they're celebrating the Sheep Festival.


  1. "In Cameroon, they're celebrating the Sheep Festival."

    Are the Welsh ok with this?

  2. @jay:

    I'm guessing it would depend on how far the celebrations go. A bit of light "wool ruffling" and the odd "rub on the nose" wouldn't cause too much of a kerfuffle in the Valleys, I imagine, but if it went any further than that...

  3. The wool ruffle is generally accepted, yes (unless done in too rythmic or sensual a fashion), but the nose rub is actually considered '1st base' in some northern areas, an overtly sexual act.

  4. @jay:

    "the nose rub is actually considered '1st base' in some northern areas"

    Aah, that explains it, then. My grandad was from Tonypandy in the Rhondda, he'd always told me that the "rub on the nose" ("dwlch yr ffenddiog ar bendyddieu go go goch" to give it its Welsh name) was just a friendly greeting, akin to giving your best girl a peck on the cheek.

    So I was somewhat taken aback when Flossy from Criccieth tried to bite my knackers off when I gave her cute little black nose a friendly rub. I've been at a loss to explain it until now. Thanks mate.

  5. Cricket fans: On Radio 4 Today Programme:

    Neil Hannon of The Divine Comedy and Thomas Walsh of Pugwash are collaborating on a concept album based around cricket. Their monicker = The Duckworth-Lewis Method

    Also reported here in the Irish Times

  6. Swifty, a dangerous game. Unless the back legs are held securely within your stout wellington boots, there is always a risk of injury.

  7. Thanks for the sheep info by the way. Is there anything one should or shouldn't say about a Northern lass' choice of lanolin ?

  8. @scherfers:

    I think it was more a misunderstanding on my part, I wasn't aware that flocks in the North of Wales had different cultural mores to those in the South of that lovely green land, boyo.


    I'm amazed "Sir" Tim Rice and associated Bunburys/Wlburys haven't done a cricket concept album yet. If not, why not?

  9. I thought best to warn you, Swifty, as HSBC are always pointing out - local knowledge is invaluable. And its not just the sheeps reaction you have to worry about, the owners can become extremely violent if you "touch their lady".

    "Unless the back legs are held securely within your stout wellington boots, there is always a risk of injury."

    I heard ketamin was increasingly being used to sedate the beasts as even the "Wellington Shuffle" isnt entirely safe. Poorly made or loose fitting boots have caused a number of serious incidents.

  10. There is a school of thought that the use of sedation markedly impairs the aesthetic enjoyment of the experience. Stout wellies and, if necessary, a length of baling twine are held by most afficionados to be perfectly adequate. As always, common sense should be the guide.

  11. All very true, Scherf. It is considered somewhat unmanly to use sedation, but there are those who say it's 'the future' and criticise their opponents for being too 'traditionalist'.

    Sedation is also popular with "speed sheepers", the new fad amongst the youth for sneaking into neighbours fields in groups, "roasting" the occupants and then fleeing. They upload the videos to youtube and share them with classmates via their mobiles.

  12. Hmm. I probably shouldn't say this "in clear" but I once paid a considerable amount of fodder for a spot of ewe-on-ewe action.

    In other news... can someone have a word with Hazel Blears, please? Explain how she's had a good run for our money, but the decent thing would be to go now, rather than cling on tenaciously. I mean, it's not like she does anything hugely important, is it?

  13. "speed sheeping"! I am appalled - this surely marks the last nail in the coffin of the good old traditional values of the British countryside. I suppose, seen in retrospect, all innocence was irretrievably lost when the tossing of live foxes to packs of baying hounds was made illegal.

  14. Blears has no shame at all so wont go unless pushed, she was back grinning at the camera yesterday telling everyone how great Gordon Brown thought she was. She makes me feel ill.

    Scherfig, i believe the Countryside Alliance are running a campaign against this 'speed sheeping' if you want to get involed, they are appalled at the rough abuse being meted out to these proud creatures. The bond between a Welshman and his sheep is one based on mutual respect and tenderness and they feel these ideals are being undermined. They are using the song "Treat Her Right" as the campaign anthem (the Commitments version):

    I wanna tell you a story every man oughta know

    If you want a little lovin' you gotta start real slow

    She gonna love you tonight, if you just treat her right
    Oh squeeze her real gentle, you gotta make her feel good

    Tell her that you love her like you know you should

    She gonna love you tonight if you just treat her right
    If you practice my method just as hard as you can

    You gonna get a reputation as a lovin' man

    Yeah, you'll be glad every night that you're treatin' her right

  15. Nice, Jay, but sentimental. How about a bit of rock?

    Dirty Deeds Done with Sheep

  16. Thats just the sort brutishness we're trying to combat, Scherf, shame on you.

  17. As a former resident of mid Wales, I am most interested in the discussion of sheep love. After many incidents too painful to go into, I have found a high quality, fully washable inflatable sheep most satisfactory (Anne Summers, Builth Wells, £395.70)

  18. "How Sheep is Your Love"
    The Baa Gees


  19. "After many incidents too painful to go into, I have found a high quality, fully washable inflatable sheep most satisfactory (Anne Summers, Builth Wells, £395.70)"

    Perhaps CiF would allow us to put the debate into the general domain,

    "Wellington Shuffle, Ketamin or inflatable - the dilemmas of the modern Welshman."

    (I think Pikey would make a good job of it.)

  20. @jay:

    Sheep - to dip or not to dip?

    Oh hello what's this - why's Ann Widdecombe giving Joanna Lumley a big hug on the news? Was Widdy on the Gurkha bandwagon?

    Jacqui Smut looked v miserable making her big Gurkha announcement just now in the HoC. No wonder, really.

  21. We might want to get that debate onto some sort of identity politics thread to maximise response. Perhaps the horrific pay gap between 'ovis aries' and other even-toed ungulates would be a good starting point. Harker could take a swing at anti-Welsh ovine/bovine discrimination, and Bidisha could deconstruct the basic misogynism/racism of 'Baa Baa, Black Sheep'

  22. And now the Graun's back at the top of the web league tables...

    "Guardian.co.uk's number of unique users grew by 4.14% to 27,324,309 month on month to end April, whereas Telegraph.co.uk's unique users plummeted 13.83% to 23,875,251.

    Bucking last month's growth trend the number of UK users visiting the Guardian's website fell from 10.67m in March to 9.7m in April."

    So... the numbers rise sharply the month I flounce out the door - coincidence? I think not.

    You owe me money, Carolyn McCall. Otherwise I'll sign up again.

  23. "Sheep - to dip or not to dip?"

    Any man that says this question doesnt plague his sleep is either a liar or a post-op transexual.

    "Jacqui Smut looked v miserable"

    All the newlab shitbags looks miserable at the minute, they know its all over. Only the subhuman Blears has reverted back to her sniggering, punchable self.

    Scherf - i think thats a superb idea. Maybe we should contact Seaton and put the idea forward. Or, just maybe, the 'article' could in fact be performed through the medium of song - a first outing for BiBuBiBu?

  24. I recommend the use of welly chafing unguent and a dag baffle when romancing a live one. I also find that ketamine tends to dull my responses unless... Oh, I see what you mean. And for Welsh sheep, ecstacy is a sine qua non. It does tend to liven them up a bit. As far as New Zealand sheep are concerned, it's important they're properly defrosted...

  25. Jay, song sounds great! And the medium of dance? Who's that poster with the Italian name who always brings up dance on the WDYWTTA threads? She could choreograph a short piece to accompany BiBuBiBu's vocals, and the thing could be presented as one of these new-fangled video-articles. Cath, Kettle and Tomasky would seem the obvious choices, having already had some Grauniad video experience. Brusselsexpats could design the costumes.

  26. @jay:

    You could get a few of the ATLers chipping in, the more songs the better, we could turn it into some sort of Ewe-rovision Song Contest.


    @scherfers: I love the medium of dance, and the universality of its message, it transcends all cultures, creeds and races.

    Or rather, I don't, but that's what I'm putting on the bottom of my application form for a bit of Arts Council funding. Wish me luck - I could do with a few quid at the minute, no strings etc.

  27. "I recommend the use of welly chafing unguent and a dag baffle when romancing a live one."

    This is a pretty good thread, but that's hard to beat you sicko.

  28. "I recommend the use of welly chafing unguent and a dag baffle when romancing a live one."

    In these tough economic times a live one is a bit of a luxury to be honest, i usually just take a stroll down the abattoir.

    "And the medium of dance?"

    Well, i had initially envisaged BiBuBiBu doing the dancing too actually, the whole performance, a tightly choreographed bit of neo-disco in provocative dress.

    Maybe we could find room for Elliott and Tomasky as backing dancers. Cath told me she does a mean 'robot' but i think something more low key would be wise.

    "we could turn it into some sort of Ewe-rovision Song Contest."

    Swifty... Lowering the tone...

  29. @B/W:

    Yeah, agreed, that's got the sound of *experience* about it.

    But, whichever way you look at it, sheep have been oppressed for millennia now. It's high time academia turned its collective mind to the liberation of the species, I mean, c'mon fellas, they're not just our sexual playthings you know.

  30. 'they're not just our sexual playthings you know.'

    This has a worrying undertone of feminism about it. I'll admit that some people may enjoy a Sunday roast or a lightly-grilled lamb chop once the initial thrill of the relationship has passed, but to equate this secondary use of our ovine chums with their long-established primary function sounds dangerously like a call for some sort of 'equality'. I don't think that would be terribly well-received along the Welsh borders. The Islington media toffs may well be impressed by this sort of thing, but in the real world, such revolutionary ideas tend to be given short shrift. And rightly so.

  31. @scherfers:

    Well, I'm not familiar with the concept you call "feminism", so can't comment on that, but surely most reasonable people would concede that to discriminate against a species based solely on their bleating voices and general woolliness is hardly the action of a civilised society?

    I can't see why you would disagree with that. I mean, it's not like I'm arguing that, say, women should have the vote or anything equally outlandish, is it?

  32. Swifty, you've set my mind at ease a lttle, but to suggest that the absence of discrimination (of any kind) might be the mark of a civilized society flies in the face of all evidence.

  33. Interesting debate guys, thats why we should leave it to the professionals - Harker and the BiBuBiBu's. They toured Farringdon to great acclaim only last month.

  34. @scherfers:

    I'm glad we seem to be moving towards common ground, I certainly take your point about certain forms of discrimination being a defining aspect of some civilisations, I'm merely arguing for less discrimination in this particular case i.e. our bleating, woolly sisters.

    Couldn't care less about the bleating, woolly brothers, obviously, I'm aware that it goes on but what an archbishop chooses to do in his spare time is none of my business, frankly, repellent as I may find it personally.

  35. @jay:

    I WAS THERE! At "Toynbees", Islington, April 2009 - although I think they were performing as Wimmin Aloud or something?

    I liked the one with the short dark hair(y armpits), she was a little cracker. Great make up as well, she could be an Avon lady it was that well put on. Geordie (or somewhere up North) from her accent, I think? Fancy me chances there, deffo.

  36. "I'm merely arguing for less discrimination in this particular case i.e. our bleating, woolly sisters."

    I have to agree with Scherf here, once you aim for one bit of equality you really do open the floodgates. Look how well the Saudis have done.

  37. "although I think they were performing as Wimmin Aloud or something?"

    No no, that was Bitethehand's tribute band.

    I'm after the 'exotic' one myself.

  38. A noble compromise, swifty - some token concessions for the woolly sisters, status quo for the brothers. I foresee a large mob of Cif gender contributors fighting bitterly amongst themselves for the honour of being the first to bring this long-overlooked issue to the public notice. Glittering careers have been built on much less worthy issues!

  39. I think only Tatchell has the required gravitas to give this the serious introduction to public discourse that it needs.

  40. @jay:

    "Look how well the Saudis have done."

    Hmm, you've given me pause for thought there. Maybe you and scherfers are correct, and now is *not* the right time for the liberation of our ovine sisters. I shall have to ponder this some more while I'm away in Wales this weekend...

    And of course, you're right, it *was* BTH's band.

    Damn, I know I've seen BiBuBiBu somewhere though. Have they ever toured "the real world" or do they mostly strut their stuff in NW1?

  41. This comment has been removed by the author.

  42. I think that BiBuBiBu have toured extensively in Japan under their former name 'Cheap Trick'. Some nice lead guitar here from Bidisha.

    I Want You to Want Me

  43. @scherfers:

    Shit they're talented. I've unearthed another one of them (apparently in Moscow - I never knew they'd travelled out of their comfort zone, to be honest).


    I believe the chap dancing on the right is Bitethehand?

  44. Well spotted, Swifty. That is indeed BiteTheHand. He was never officially in the band, though. He was only the roadie who shifted their gear and told them how brilliant they were.

  45. Swiftyboy
    "Shit they're talented. I've unearthed another one of them (apparently in Moscow - I never knew they'd travelled out of their comfort zone, to be honest).


    I believe the chap dancing on the right is Bitethehand?"

    That is FAF. :D

    And at least you've got off the subject of sheep lurve!

    Why hasn't Blears been sacked?

  46. @scherfers:

    Thought so. Julie's looking particularly "glam" in the trousers on the left there as well. Don't think much of Burchill's hair colour though.

    PS that bloke slumped drunk in the chair to the left looks suspiciously like Matt Seaton fiddling with his Blackberry. Was he concocting his CiF commissioning strategy at that gig, do we think?

  47. Oooh! Nice ruling!!


  48. "Damn, I know I've seen BiBuBiBu somewhere though. Have they ever toured "the real world" or do they mostly strut their stuff in NW1?"

    They're not really popular enough in the Real World to justify the touring costs, more of a niche act really.

    "He was only the roadie who shifted their gear and told them how brilliant they were."

    I thought he was just a groupie?

    "Why hasn't Blears been sacked?"

    This is New Labour, they dont do apologies, they dont ever resign, and no one is ever dismissed.

  49. Re: Equal Rights for Sheep Evaluation

    Has anyone asked WML for input ?

  50. Do you mean BTH from Steps ?

  51. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qptc

    Oh sweet jesus, you all simply must listen to that right now, scroll it on to 18 minutes 30 seconds in and listen to that interview. This is staggering. If a revolution is to be stirred, this interview will be invaluable to rouse the proles.

  52. JR
    No speakers in my office - gist ?

  53. 'I thought he was just a groupie?' How very dare you? You sully a beautiful relationship with your sly innuendo.

    I don't think Blears will last long, one way or the other. John Harris makes the point today that, because of boundary changes in 2006, her claim of having strong constituency support is probably unfounded. And Gordon will have to sack someone soon, and little Hazel's YouTube joke article has put her head on the block for sure. She has definitely overestimated her grassroots backing so I reckon it's 'bye bye Blearsie' pretty soon. And good fuckin' riddance.

  54. BW - old Tory MP who has resigned being interviewed, he claimed for trees and stuff, anyway, he basically said the public are idiots, they have no right to know what he spends his expenses on, its labours fault for bringing in the FOI act, they shouldnt have done it, none of the expenses should have been made public. He was contemptuous throughout, no remorse, its just a shocking interview but oh so revealing of the mindset of our rulers. Sickening.

  55. @jay:

    That's Harry Enfield as Tory Boy, surely? "Let me be verrrry clear" etc etc.

    Good to see Call Me Dave's boys are so in touch with the public mood.

    James Purnell is in the shit as well. His chubby little plasticine face makes me want to reach for the blowtorch.

  56. JayReilly
    Oh, yes, no doubt...

  57. Good interview, Jay.

    'What right does the public have to interfere with my private life? None.' says Steen. Seems fair to me - let the proles pay thousands of pounds to that twit, pay for the upkeep of his stately home, and keep their fuckin' mouths shut. (And, oh yeah, he reckons that it's all the wretched Government's fault - the information should never have been released.)

    Simply incredible.

  58. Agreed Scherf, unbelievable interview, certain to raise public anger even further im sure.


  60. yep, we're just "jealous" of his big house.

  61. I was in a really good mood today (I'm on hols till next Thursday) until I heard that cock "justifying" his misuse of my tax money.

    Now I want to riot. Hard.

    I may chuck some paper in the "Landfill" receptacle at work, instead of the "Recycling" one. It's a small gesture I know, but significant, I'd like to think.

    Oh fuck, it's no good, I can't cheer myself up. Who am I going to vote for come the Euros, and then the GE? I'm interested in politics, I've always voted, but now I just feel like I'm done with the whole thing.

    And it's those greedy venal mealy-mouthed bastards in Westminster who are to blame.

  62. "Who am I going to vote for come the Euros, and then the GE?"

    Exactly. Thats why i am very much against an early GE, it gives the country too little time to get its house in order - we need the year to debate this stuff as a country and work out how to fix things. An election would give a powerful tory government, they'd clean up expenses and the chance would be lost for god knows how long.

  63. @Jay:

    There's two strands here, I think. Punish Gordon Brown and his shitty cabal on the one hand, and punish all MPs equally on the other. I used to stand firmly in the one camp, but now I'm firmly in the other. Hence the quandary.

    I may not vote at all in the light of all this. What a bloody disgrace this parliament is.

  64. PS @BB:

    What's FAF? I'm not "down" with the "kids'" "lingo", the only FAF I know is fire-and-forget. Which you obviously didn't mean.

  65. The sheep have turned up again on the New Zealand £3.9m thread.

    'I've always assumed people bartered with sheep.'

    That's not what they call it here, is it?

  66. Incidentally, this YouTube clip shows what *shouldn't* happen when you unleash fire-and-forget missile-borne hell on a test firing range.


  67. Can't believe it - more sheep on the 'take the money and run' thread -

    'A life on the lam'

  68. Fuck me, swifty, you've spotted BiteTheHand again!
    And yet again, he's the chap on the right.

  69. Unbelievable interview- simply beyond satire. Anthony Steen has obviously not the faintest idea how the other half lives- or should I say the other 99%. Thanks for that, Jay.

  70. @BB:

    Ah, cheers. I've been doing my nut trying to work it out.


    I thought he was the bloke with the misfiring "weapon"? Can psychologically scar a chap for life, you know, something like that. "It's not you, Bi, it's me..."

  71. Bitterweed - they arrived, 2 x Trucks albums, 2 x Buddy Guy albums and the Haynes DVD. And im off for a long bank holiday weekend now. Bliss.

  72. I'm enjoying it right now, buddy, skin deep album, nice stuff.

    Big Robert Randolph fan after seeing him play on the Crossroads DVD.

  73. Well, haven't been around for a few days so just catching up on what ewe guys been talking about, and am shocked and appalled that ewe think that the time isn't ripe for equal rights for ewes ...

    "As far as New Zealand sheep are concerned, it's important they're properly defrosted" - LOL! and still laughing! Absolutely mint ...

  74. Excellent choice Jay ! You going away or chilling a tome ?

    (BTW Old BB's having a field day with the nazi elbow lickers over on the Nick Griffin at Buck House thread... Go BB !)

  75. Right, I'm off, laters.

  76. Yes Jay I heard it this lunchtime I was screaming abuse at the radio!!! I'm not usually in favour of going as far as 'standing them up against a wall and shooting them' but would cheerfully make an excuse in the case of this arrogant bastard!

    Btw I forgot I had the kitchen door open - God knows what the neighbours thought!

    Probably frightened the sheep as well ;-)!!!

    Jealousy! done ehbsolutely nothing wrong, 19th centrury merchant's house! it does me!

    To coin a phrase Jay! what a cunt!

  77. Going home to brighton for a few days, bitterweed, always nice to get out the stinking pit of london.

    Annetan - what an absolute Tony, i know, i would happily back capital punishment for him. Absolutely shocking interview.

  78. Bitterweed

    "(BTW Old BB's having a field day with the nazi elbow lickers over on the Nick Griffin at Buck House thread... Go BB !)"

    Doing me best! :o)

  79. That tory shit - "and the worst thing is I've done absolutely nothing wrong....they are just jealous....I have a big house...Balmoral...does me" c@nt

    Also, why are the other 2 who didn't pay capital gains tax seeming to be getting away with it at the moment? Why is it just blears?

  80. Completely agree about Anthony Steen, his arrogance was breathtaking. In bringing in the FoI Act, "this government insisted on the things which caught me on the wrong foot". Ahh, diddums.

    btw annetan, Dennis Skinner has not claimed a single penny towards his mortgage in 39 years as an MP. Definitely a man with integrity.

  81. sartrecastic21 May, 2009 20:03

    probably because everybody fucking despises Blears.

    I had a teacher for a debating class who seemed to think she was popular with the public. If that were ever true it bloody isn't now.

    I hated that woman. she used to go on every once in a while about how there's a two-tier society being created, comparable to that of The Time Machine. Those at the top are the benefit cheats/scroungers relying on handouts, living the life of Riley, while those at the bottom grunting and groaning in the mines out of site are people who work.

    As my mum is one of those benefits scroungers this is uncomfortable listening. It is also uncomfortable listening because, honestly, when written out as I have just done now, it sounds like the deranged rantings of a deranged ranter.

    Perhaps that perception is all mine.

  82. sacretastic

    Depends whether you mean you are the deranged ranter or the teacher was. My money is on it being the teacher :o)

  83. sartrecastic21 May, 2009 21:11

    Ah. Yes. Must pay more attention to what I am writing. :B

  84. Sartrecastic - you've got to remember that the sort of miserable excrement who say things like that haven't got the first fucking clue what it's like to be poor or to have a rough patch in life. If she ever does -- she'll be utterly lost.

  85. sartrecastic21 May, 2009 23:50

    Ah. That's comforting. I'll keep that one in mind.

  86. Sartrecastic
    “She used to go on every once in a while about how there is a two tier society being created,”

    What is she like? That been going on since we stopped being hunter gatherers!

    But she has got it a bit ‘upside down’! We can of course see who is getting most of the ‘handouts' these days – and its not the people she was hinting at!

    And that’s nothing new either!