20 May 2009

Daily Chat 20/05/09

On this day in 685, Pictish king Bridei III and his forces crush the Northumbrian invaders led by King Ecgfrith.  In 1873, Levi Strauss and Jacob Davis receive a patent for copper-riveted trousers made of blue denim.  One hundred years later, trousers made this way would still be looking good on a young Englishman named Roger Daltrey.  And on this day in 1916, 1917 and 1918, the town of Codell, Kansas, was hit by tornadoes.  Celebrating birthdays:  Joe Cocker, Cher, Iker Casillas and Petr Cech.  It is Independence Day in East Timor.


  1. deano30/room101d30(x)20 May, 2009 06:13

    Congratulations "The untrusted blog"

    If you google the untrusted blog you now come out 5th - thats a high ranking and indicative of either originality/rarity/volume of traffic or an esoteric combination of all three.

    Which/whatever - well done your readership grows

  2. room101d30/deano30/x20 May, 2009 06:17

    Independence day in East Timor (congratulations to them

    But not yet independence for Yorkshire (commiserations to them)

  3. deano30/101/x20 May, 2009 06:30

    Just to top out yesterdays claim to fame on account of association with assorted legends(sometimes questionable/odd/ or even tawdry giants of the stage)

    I deano have shagged someone (my dear sometime wife) who was both at the Dylan Sheffield gig and slept in a bed vacated by Paul Robeson only the week before - so there up thine

    Now I really had better be careful and it must be getting the closer for the time to take my departure.For in truth I can be identified from the comment here but thankfully only by handful of others who might read this.

    I've never been to a live concert in my life although I did once drunkly stumble across Noddy ? (Slade) doing a gig in a pub in Leeds. I was there for beer not the music.

  4. deano whats in a name anyway20 May, 2009 06:37

    I don't want to over do it.... but........my lass was mates with the daughter of the bloke who was the UK agent of non other than.............Frankie boy Sinatra.

    She certainly rode in the Rolls he used to ferried around London in.

  5. Anyone heard "Comfortably Numb" by The Scissor Sisters? Brilliant. Unlike anything else by them.

    Good riddance, speaker Martin!

    I was once offered some grubby looking coke by this woman who claimed she was the Angie of the Stones' song. "Weird coke", I said after taking a noseful, "Nah" she said,"That's smack"...

  6. Dan
    Yes, heard it - bizarrely, it works ! Not bothered about the rest of their ouvre... too glittery.

    My mate used to boff one of Pans People. It was 1989, thirteeen years after her last TOTP show, and she was more into income support and Merrydown Cider than the high life. Mind you, so was he. Especially the cider.

  7. What's got into Polly Toynbee these days? She's just written an article over there calling for less MPs. WHICH MAKES SENSE TO ME.

    Jesus, at this rate she'll be calling for a smaller public sector and a return to hanging 'n' flogging.

  8. @ SwifyBoy

    Cricket fans of two types Hope I don't offend you when you read which kind I am.

    See (18/5/09 14:36)

    Best W if I don't get to speak directly to you again.

    Polly does read the threads I and others have made tha point quite a bit of late.

  9. Toast and Marmite20 May, 2009 09:08

    Whilst it is both easy and lots of fun to mock Polly for her late and stumbling steps to the real world, I feel we should be kind and offer words of encouragement. Otherwise, like a recovering alcholic, she may relapse into the warmth and safety of her metaphorical bottle labelled 'Big Government,' (bottled in Tuscany.)

  10. Mind you, good to see Madeleine "Mad" Bunting is still banging the same old drum. In this case, "quotas" for women, ethnic minorities, (and by extension I guess) tall people, short people, fatties and thinnies, men, children, redheads, fabulous brunettes, blondes having more fun, greyhairs like me, ex-forces, drug addicts, thieves, the unemployed and unemployable, people of all sexual orientation, left- and right-handed people, the large-breasted, the smaller lady, the well-endowed and the not so lucky, and so on and so on...

    Phew, for a minute there I thought my world had flipped on its axis.

  11. @deano:

    Which type of cricket fan are you, old son? Sorry but I can't be arsed to go back and look.


    Polly will never inhabit the "real world" that most of us do, she's too priveleged for that, but agreed, the comments on that thread are for the most part fairly conciliatory and supportive, as they should be.

    "My name's Polly, and I am an ex-New Labour cheerleader".

  12. Swifty: e-mail me please. thewildhack@gmail.com

    Montana - up at an ungodly hour

  13. @ SB
    The not very knowledgeable kind but who enjoys the silliness of some of the fans.

  14. @Montana:

    Email on its way, your reply might get spam-filtered so bear with me if you don't get a reply straight away.


    Nothing wrong with that, plenty of people go to the cricket for a fun day out. Particularly on the Western Terrace at Headingley.

  15. Cricket has always struck me as a game you can only really understand/enjoy if you have played it. The inherent comedy and ridiculousness of the game is lost on mere spectators i think.

    Swifty - you really must read that Rain Men, you wont regret it.

  16. @jay:

    "Cricket has always struck me as a game you can only really understand/enjoy if you have played it."

    Hmm, maybe. Although Mrs SB enjoys a nice day out sipping Pimms at Arundel, and she doesn't know her silly mid-off from her deep backward leg.

    It's true to say I love cricket because I played it a lot when younger, but I think the seed was sown for me as a very young lad going to Headingley with my dad. I fell in love with the (to some) arcane rules, finickety field placing and the sheer artistry of the greats I watched.

    Most of all though, I just enjoyed going to watch sport with my dad.

  17. @ SB

    That's what the post was about - The Western Terrace


    That uncomfortable question of a sting/grooming/phising which I stumbled into yesterday?

    I do not care if it is an unpleasant topic especially before breakfast, I deano have no fear of angels so I'm indifferent as to the fall of my tread.

    Like it or not there was phising, a sting and some grooming -how do I know?

    I know because I was the fish caught on the hook it was me that walked into a stinging tongue lashing (which by the way given its originality I adored) from SARTECASTIC.

    And in consequence it was me that was in effect being groomed to say (what I am now more happy to do) "sartecastic you are a feisty and a class act well done!" - Not that you give a toss what this allegedly psoriasis riddled, apple mac flashing, lunatic thinks anyway.

    But really anyone who can make a "connection" between Mozart's casual but gifted theft of wonderful sacred music from the Vatican and Potter's wonderful psoriasis riddled detective is on for a bright future.

    I ask the question - how many fucking young people these days actually know what the effects of psoriasis are? Let alone the magic of the Alegri Miserere , or the tale of how we non Catholics came to hear it??

    So without hesitation from this balding and boring old fart it's a Gold Star+ and 10/10 for sartrecastic

    The "alarm" that I mistakenly sounded was brought about by inexperience of the reality of internet/thread communication by this older learner and a techno breakdown.

    Writing as I did, when I did, was because I could not get access to the Guardian's site to read my sarcastic friend's profile and record of postings ( sartre and sarky "a heady mix" for a handle indeed sartrecastic)

    When I did, I was more understanding of the likely person behind the profile name sartrecastic. Those interesting and feisty posts in the Guardian were not written in completely immature lower case format and were, in my humble opinion, crafted and mature. Plainly the work of someone over the age of consent

    Nor were the Guard posts written in what seemed to me to be a Nabokov "Lolita" voice adopted on this thread. I do therefore do not agree with my American teacher friend Montana that there was nothing going on.

    ( Perhaps she is a junior or middle school teacher? I taught those who liked to think that they were past the age of puberty and consent – I was probably not a very good teacher because it is questionable whether I ever really grew up myself)

    {There is a technical constraint which means I must post my attempted sense in two parts


    Enquires to an older man : ".i am flattered.......i'll be startng university in september though. should i be excited? sounds coquettish to me - whether you tonally differently hearing readers of this thread hear it or see it or not.

    That, or I completely misread Nabokov and the novelist Robertson Davies who according to wiki: " excused the narrator entirely, writing that the theme of Lolita is "not the corruption of an innocent child by a cunning adult, but the exploitation of a weak adult by a corrupt child".

    -- i deano aint no humbert humbert and i'm incorruptible because i have a conscience get it? got it sartrefan

    And with great respect young MONTANA - a discussion of the possibility of Townsend's "odd habits and disposition" without a consideration of the points raised by the Lolita question(s) is, again with much respect, plain UNWISE if not plain daft.

    It would be shameful of me not to admit that I am flying kites when I write here - we all are or we should be.

    Because I fly kites I do not complain when I get electric shocks and scorn from others. If it is well crafted scorn, which sartrecastic's withering assault on me was, I have no complaint. I always adored my sometime wife’s even more withering assaults they too had real class.

    If you want an idle exchange of innocent nonsense go put yourself on facebook.

    Since I have said that I will not communicate with sartecastic I will not - but to the hanging question what should I be reading?. The answer is I know not, but the Surgeon of Crowthorne is a fucking good read. Dr Minor is a hero of mine.

    If the tale of Minor don't give a love of "english" I'm fucked if I know what will.

    I would have Doc Minor over Pete Townsend on a dessert island with me forever. But both were headbangers, and so am I

    My sincere apologies to those who have signalled they do not like my long posts. I wont be doing many more and this is my last long one for the day..

    Regards to Montana and others who rarely read what I have to say

  20. @jay:

    "you really must read that Rain Men, you wont regret it."

    Cheers for the reminder mate, I've just ordered it from the library. I'm in search of a good read at the minute, just finished (for about the 100th time) The War The Infantry Knew, about 2 RW Fusiliers in WWI. One of the best books about life in the trenches, ever. Written by one who was there.

  21. @ Monatna

    "We're here for community and fun.........."

    I know that and I am sorry that I was not very funny and sometimes irritating to your understandably very busy readers.

    That's the main the reason I'm leaving I hope it is seen as courtesy - that is my intention.

    That I my discomfort with the inherent "exclusiveness" of club that retains a members only telephone box.

    I'm with Marx - ".......any club that would me as memeber is really not one for me..." or somesuch similar words.

    My very very best wishes for your continuing success here.

    ps The confusing and unresolved questions of Billp and his treatment will and should continue to arise in many different shades and nuances here. I think you'll get it right eventually you all seem to be of goodwill.

    Fond farewell everyone - if I left anything unanswered I'll keep reading and let you have an anon view.

  22. @deano:

    Cheerio old man, sorry you don't feel like you fit in round here.

    Here's a parting thought for you - why don't you start up your own blog? You've got the Blogger log-in, surely it's a small step to setting up your own area where you can share your views and experiences with the internet at large? While that sort of stuff might not be in keeping with the majority of people's tastes here, I'd stop by to read it occasionally.

    There's not much to be said about billp, except most felt he was an abrasive shit-stirrer and a right royal attention-seeking pain in the arse. No confusion there, surely?

  23. Dean30

    I may be wrong but i think you have completely misread this one, i dont think there was any sting, just the usual chatter. If Sartre is indeed a devilish Lolita, this seems a very odd site to target - a fairly small band of discontented ciffers, most of whom have long term partners and many of whom have kids. Are you sure you havent completely misinterpreted all this?

    Montana puts up birthdays and historic dates every day, its a feature i think everyone likes. And i am 100% certain Montana's inclusion of Townsend was absolutely nothing to do with the "sting" (which im 99% certain was imaginary).

    As for the phonebox, as explained it was setup to discuss new monikers where the mods couldnt read it. It only changed in nature when billp arrived, but the chat there is very similar to the chat here, it isnt a bitching parlour.

  24. @ SB

    I went to school about (say a long spit and two quick wanks) from where Len Hutton was born. Me Bro in law plays golf there to this day

  25. Swifty

    non players can certainly get a lot of enjoyment, i agree, but it has always seemed to me that the appreciation between players and non players is slightly different.

    Last military book i read, i think, was an account of a German shoulder on the Eastern Front in WW2, cant remember the name, very good though.

  26. @jay:

    Re. cricket: agreed mate.

    Re. war: Was it The Forgotten Soldier, maybe? By Guy Sajer?

    Pretty grim stuff. As a kid I used to get Battle Action comic and my favourite character bar none in that was Panzer G Man - bit like a Sven Hassel graphical novel. Very gritty. My mother always knew I was destined for a life in the forces, while my dad reckoned I'd have headed for the Bundeswehr if I could. My prize possession was a WW2 German Stahlhelm, with the name "Eckhart" written in the webbing round the inside.

    OK, end of the "war nerd" stuff.

  27. "OK, end of the "war nerd" stuff."

    Err, except for this:


    "A deadly present for the Red Army from Panzer G Man".

    Amazing what we children of the 70s read, really.

  28. Did you watch the programme Swifty? I started to, but my husband made a convincing case for Fawlty Towers, I Skyplused, but it will probably be deleted to make room for more Peppa Pig....

  29. @d'nibor:

    "Did you watch the programme"

    No, sorry, after the dismal first part, my heart wasn't in it. And we were doing household paperwork last night. How did it start? Did you get the "pay gap" explanation you were after...?

    Our Sky+ is filled up with Hannah Montana and Scorpion Island. Peppa still gets a look in sometimes though...

  30. @ JayReilly– you may not feel mildly stung it is for you to decide if you personally should. Some reading the comments below carefully may differ

    A well crafted and delivered non malicious and gentle sting in my book Such stings sometimes should be "felt" as gentle warnings.

    When Sartrecastic said:

    "Ahhhhh don't worry; I'm much too sensible to be taken in by some undoubtedly balding lonely old man scratching the dead, flaked skin that is the result of his untreated psoriasis into the grooves of his stylish Macintosh keyboard as he tries to regale me with his extensive knowledge of 21st-century post-punk revival bands and love of Jay And Silent Bob Strike Back.

    I am sure if SwiftyBoy or Hank or JayReilly have any inclinations to that end (all apologies if you are offended by my mentioning you personally but it is merely for hypothetical illustration) that it will become very obvious to all involved, and hopefully any sort of unfortunate entering-into of any kind of indecent relationship can be avoided"

    The above words are the words of satrecastic not deano!

    Perhaps sartr was not also delivering a message about "ambiguity" that can be seen from the outside that some on inside plainly cannot see.

    For a yet to attend university student (with a very promising future) of undoubted high intelligence there is a wisdom and a message here that you ignore at your pleasure/peril.

    Perhaps deano was simply too polite to point out that having an exclusive and potentially alluring telephone box is confusing to some.

    "Educating Rita" may have involved adults but there was an element of corruption, although some might prefer to see seduction, in it.

    There remains an ambiguity about the conduct of both Townsend and the retired Chief Inspector of Schools Woodhead. The latter in a relationship which although legal, lead to a loss of credibility. They are entitled to the benefit of the doubt and so too is deano.

    This thread has creditability - it would be a pity to see it lost or in way compromised through crass indifference and an unwillingness to read and think about what it is that others are saying. Plainly you are bus or more attracted to reading those with whom you more familiar or comfortable.

    You (the core of this thread)all owe it your hostess to be careful about her back I would not wish to see her hurt or damaged in any way. There are some very nasty fuckers out there and I don't think Billp was in their league

    We must not live or travel in fear but nor should we be reckless with the reputations of those around us. The more that you enjoy success there will be those who seek to bring you down. That is the law of the jungle.

    But who gives a care what the tosser deano thought has now gone.

  31. @ JR {10:16}

    I don't think anyone reading what deano said could think that he or anyone could think that Montana in posting a rock legends birthday was doing anything seedy at all.

    That was just a coincidence of events. I do not think that Sart thought that you or the others named were seedy either - merely a pointing out of ambiguity.

  32. Gents/Ladies
    Re cricket, I played it badly at aschool, but my old man (died last year) was a lifelong fan, he'd got nearly all the postwar wisdens (which my big bro is inheriting as he is a monster cricket fan and a reasonable player)

    I eventually got the rules, strategy (& some of the more the absurd/esoteric fun) by going to County matches with those two and some of our mates and watching the fun while bantering and blowing the froth of a few... great days out ;-)

  33. "Was it The Forgotten Soldier, maybe? By Guy Sajer?"

    Yeah that was it, you know your stufff.

    I also spotted a hideous typing faux pas, i said Shoulder instead of Soldier, neither a typo nor a spelling mistake, just plain stupid...

    "My mother always knew I was destined for a life in the forces,"

    Can i ask what you did, Swifty? Or what you do if still in service.


    "They are entitled to the benefit of the doubt and so too is deano."

    Benefit of what doubt? No one has accused Deano of doing anything untoward have they? The whole thing is completely bizarre to me, if this is a sting, where is it? Who was stung? And how? Im just not seeing this at all, but if Deano feels aggreived then i completely support him in saying so, i just disagree - mainly on the basis i dont have a clue what he's on about.


    Good stuff, the game is so very English and absurd it has endless comedy value, though i do wish it would return to the BBC, it doesnt belong anywhere else.

  34. @ JAY

    On reading the evidence of the threads (inc the Guardian profile/record of Sart)I don't think that Sartre is or is thought by deano to be a Lolita in a literal sense.

    He/She/Herm is plainly clever and well read - young or old a worthy contributor to CIF and here.But if the name is guise of a clever Guard Mod or Writer.............! At best you might be being teased at worst what the hell you can't be hung but.....

    You have so many out there that would feel threatened by a rising success in here that they would go for you. If you consider yourself immune you may, with respect, be unwise.

    I know a bloke who knows a bloke who used teach the awkward - squad. What acts of artifice he taught them is really nobody's business and really not that very interesting except to aficionados of such matters.

    You have at least one reader of your thread who understands artifice the used the word in connection with another contributor only recently.

    Of course the affairs of The Bilde mob are more important than what goes on here but that does not mean you should be inconsiderate of the needs of your friend and comrades.


  35. Indeed it does belong there JR, and they have the broadcast capacity as discussed before... two channels of dead air between 3 am and seven in the evening ? Come ON, BBC sort it out !

  36. I get the feeling when reading the comments that much of it is written in some obscure code which I'm not privy to. I'm not particularly concerned, just mildly baffled.
    A kind neighbour gave me about 100 leek seedlings which I planted last night. Any leek experts about?

  37. @ DP - leeks

    Sooty soil I heard is good for them but those who grow gaint (inedible) leeks keep their recipes for the fertiliser mix a secret.

    I heard that soaked sheep manure is good. They have to be earthed up carefully as they groe

  38. I missed the start, flicked on and away from the programme intermittently (it was the Waldorf Salad episode,so we didn't want to miss any of that).

    I'm fairly reliably informed that they didn't explain the process of arriving at the 17% figure, and also that they didn't differentiate between equal pay and the pay gap. Apparently, they also focused pretty much exclusively on 'top' jobs, as predicted yesterday, and didn't even truly compare like for like.

    All in all, I think I was better off with FT.

    Don't envy you Hanna Montana though, I'm not looking forward to all that shit, I've actually got quite an affection for Mr Tumble and Daddy Pig, I shall miss them when mine grow up a bit.

    I don't properly understand all the rules of the game, and without a doubt the finer points of it are wasted on me, but I love a day out at the cricket as you can drink as you watch and we're denied that small but civilised pleasure at football matches, although I do understand why...

    So it appears that I might have something in common with Mrs SB.

  39. @jay:

    Christ, this thread gets more bizarre by the minute, doesn't it? Ah well, battling on...

    I used to be an infantry officer. Rose from lowly platoon commander to the heady heights (!) of Captain.

    Re. cricket: doubt the Beeb has the inclination for Test cricket any more, to be honest. Much too English and parochial, as jay has previously pointed out...

  40. @ Jay and all who have caught the drift

    of this possibly important discussion. It is not April Fools day that passed by some time ago.

    When Sartrec said

    ".......as he tries to regale me with his extensive knowledge of 21st-century post-punk revival bands and love of Jay And Silent Bob Strike Back."

    That sartre person was not talking about deano he by his own admission knows fuck all about such esoteric matters.

  41. @DanP:

    We're growing leeks at the moment. Make sure your soil is well broken up, and, once the seedlings get to about the thickness of a pencil, poke a hole in the ground with a dibber and put the leek in the ground. Backfill the hole loosely but don't pack it down. Remember you'll need to "earth up" i.e. keep piling soil up around the base to keep the stems nice and white.

  42. The skill is not in reading between the lines it is in reading between the posts.But the scrolling is tedious

    Some can do it quite naturally and some have no interest in the art of reading upside down or in candlelight or other poor conditions not ideally suited for reading

  43. I see Chris Lewis is the new bad boy of cricket, perhaps the BBC will take it back if it's 'sexed up'....

  44. @d'nibor:

    Excellent post, that, and subsequent Chris Lewis postscript. And thanks for the review of part 2 "The Trouble With..." Glad I didn't take "the trouble" to watch it.

    Interestingly, I see the Beeb are mooting charging for use of the iPlayer. Bad move, IMHO. Carolyn McCall at the Graun has also been making noises about charging for MediaGuardian.co.uk. Bad idea, again.

    I don't think Hannah Montana's that bad a programme, to be honest, as these things go. What I dislike is the merchandising which goes along with it. But we live in a commercial society, and there are worse things in the world than hearing your daughter belting out "Best of Both Worlds" on her HM microphone. And at least she doesn't moan when I'm playing the guitar now, I've got the chords to that particular classic and we can have a bit of a sing-a-long...

  45. Meanwhile, back at the Augean Stables...

    Harriet Harman's outlining the new rules. I've got the sound off, though, so all I can see is Harman at the dispatch box, flanked by Straw and Brown nodding sagely every now and again.

    Seems the soundbite "gentleman's club" has been approved by the party's spin machine, it's certainly getting a good airing just at the minute.

  46. Well I never thought I would have any time for any children's programme after the age of 12, so I've no doubt that I will be converted again.

    It's a lovely image, Swifty and heir fighting over a few overs in the garden and then reconciling over a father-daughter 'musical' interlude.....

    As far as soundbites go, that is perhaps one of their better ones, you'd associate gentlemen's clubs with the tories and they've got a subtle implication going on....?

  47. Anon (?)

    Nope, still not registering, i cant even envisage what sort of 'sting' could be successfully carried out here. But do feel free to post under a name rather than anon, tends to go down better.

    "Christ, this thread gets more bizarre by the minute, doesn't it?"

    Does indeed Swifty, Lolita stings and Leek planting methodology.

    You retired now then? Living the comfortable home life?

    On the gentlemans club, i find the election now call quite dangerous actually. If we have an election, we will just have a new band of crooks in charge and nothing else will change, it will kill momentum for constitutional reform. I would rather the gentlemans club battles on till next year to give the people more time to plan the assault, we wont get another opportunity like this.

  48. @d'nibor:

    "It's a lovely image..."

    Fleeting though, sadly.

    "Gentleman's club" struck me as interesting which is why I flagged it up, you're quite right, it conjures up whisky-sipping Bufton Tuftons in leather armchairs gently heading towards the final sunset while harrumphing about hell arriving imminently in a handcart.

    Anyway, this sudden act of contrition on the part of the MPs strikes me as wholly self-serving, though, and born out of the lowest of motives.

    I know, I know, I'm a cynical sod...

  49. @jay:

    Ahem, now do pay attention. The "sting", apparently, was to draw some of us into admitting we were dirty kiddy fiddlers. The author of the "sting", apparently, was "sartrecastic" who is apparenty a Graun journo (or proxy) masquerading as an innocent young member of the internet. The motive, in case you're still here... to close down this blog because it poses a threat to Comment Is Free. Err, I think.

    Anyway, enough of that.

    Retired, me? I wish.

  50. "Ahem, now do pay attention. The "sting", apparently, was to draw some of us into admitting we were dirty kiddy fiddlers."

    Ah, so some of us were supposed to respond by 'grooming' young Sartre on this public forum in plain view of everyone here. I still find this whole intriguing - and completely baffling.

    Not retired then Swifty, so why are you jamming with the daughter instead of being out in the baking heat of Afghanistan or something? Skiver...

  51. @jay:

    I think poor whiskery old deano30 needs to ditch the shrooms for a bit and tend to the acers a bit more, to be honest. Paranoia and hallucinating about things which aren't there would seem to be a sign he's been overdoing things a tad lately.

    And I misunderstood what you meant by "retired", apologies. I thought you meant I was living the good life on my Army pension sipping gin on the verandah and berating the punka wallah to fan harder. No such luck - I left the Army 8 years ago and I've been working since I got out. Still, beats the 'Stan any day.

    I *will* get a pension based on reckonable service etc but that won't kick in till I'm 60 - so a way to go yet, unfortunately.

  52. That was what i thought but all is clear now, i thought you might have just got an early retirement but moving to a civilian job makes sense. I heard the heat out there has been melting the soles of people's boots, i couldnt go anywhere near heat like that...

  53. @jay:

    You don't join the Army to get rich, mate, no cottage in the country for me.

    Just as well I like being a civilian, really. It pays better, for one thing.

    Re. Afghanistan, the heat's the least of your worries, frankly. There's those naughty boys down the road, for a start...

    Given the half-arsed way in which that war is being prosecuted from Whitehall, I'm very very very glad I'm not out there.

  54. Meanwhile... I've been searching for this for a while now and (thanks to The Arrse, oddly) I appear to have found it.


    Don't it make you proud to be British?

  55. Jesus Christ that is depressing.

    Those poor kids, they've not got a chance.

    I almost wish you hadn't posted it.

  56. S'alright.

    Unless thats Mrs SB.

  57. The wonders of British parenting...

    I'm sure you're right, Swifty, the heat is probably a minor quibble to the boys out there, I just have a very low tolerance for heat and the thought of boot melting desert temperatures is rather unsettling (us English dont do heat very well in general i find, judging by the reddened lobsters that crawl back home from Spain).

  58. Oh God, that IS depressing... What a state to get into and as you say, Doohnibor, those poor kids.
    BTW, have you read Fast Food Nation? You'd never eat another MacDonalds again...
    Funny, isn't it- To be fat used to represent wealth but now it represents poverty. But, OK, we're talking OBESE here...

    Thanks for leek info, Swifty, but not optimistic- heavy clay here and bloody hot right now. Still, you never know...

  59. @d'nibor:

    Phwoar there's a thought...


    I know what you mean. Like you, I'm very well suited to our temperate climate, I'd much rather be cold (at least you can wrap up) than hot. Although having said that, I remember being very bloody cold in Norway and taking a solemn oath that I'd never go to a snowy country ever again.

    Anyone see that "Human Journey" programme with cute-as-a-button Alice Roberts, by the way? About how humans left Africa and colonised Europe and Asia? A fascinating subject which would have been well served by an "old school" scientific Horizon treatment but which instead was totally ruined by the flashy production?

    Oh dear, I seem to be very down on the Beeb at the moment.

  60. @DanP:

    Leek-y tip for you - use an old shovel handle, sans blade, and punch some holes about the width and depth of a fully-grown leek in the ground. Fill loosely with lighter soil/compost/handful of grit then plant seedling (when ready) in that.

    Should give it plenty of room to grow.

  61. SwiftyBoy - I saw it, was quite interesting but I did some palaeobiology courses at university so had looked at this in quite some depth before. Plus I found the presenter's (Alice?) voice really annoying. Well not her voice exactly, more that she really over emphasised everything she said - made me feel like I was watching kids TV. But then I'm easily irritated (things like pro-biotic yoghurt ads and Andy McDowell have me swearing at the telly). In all though I thought it was a bit er... too polished. Like "the science bit" (grrrr) of shampoo ads.

  62. I'd take the snow every time...

  63. My brother took my children to MacDonalds once and they came home in tears, thought they were going to Old McDonalds Farm.....So we're OK for now....

    Well why wouldn't you be down on the Beeb? If they didn't have Flight of the Conchords I wouldn't even bother....

  64. I much prefer the heat - I burn very easily though which is why I buy kids factor 50 sunscreen (plus then you don't have to keep reapplying it and getting all sticky)

  65. sartrecastic20 May, 2009 16:01

    Something is really beginning to bug me.

    It's Winston Churchill as UKIP election fodder.

    Is it SUPPOSED to be ironic? Did Churchill do an about-face on European integration before he died? Did he tell Robert Kilroy-Silk about it from beyond the grave? Or what?

  66. LordSummerisle20 May, 2009 16:02

    They're up to their old tricks again. The following post on George Galloway's thread, which for the life of me I cannot see contravening either their new or old talk policy has just been removed.

    With your indulgence, I shall reproduce it here.

    Hands up all those in England who even knew Martin was Catholic before all this blew up. I certainly didn't.

    (the above was blockquoted from earlier comment)

    Had no idea he was a Catholic, it would never have occurred to me to ask, and now I know I both don't care and don't understand why it's relevant. I'd never heard of the word 'taig' before and I suspect that puts me in the same boat as most people south of the border for whom the whole Protestant vs Catholic thing is a baffling nonsense and so far removed from our everyday lives as to sound like something out of a historical text.

    If you can get past the allusions to non-existant bigotry to which Galloway desperately clings in the first half of the article, he begins to make sense in the second half even though he's offering nothing that's already been said a hundred times.

    Nice to know George's grandson enjoyed the pleasures of a baptism in the House of Commons crypt and it's interesting to hear that the privilege of which he is so dismissive can manifest itself in ways other than cheating on ones expenses. May he have many more grandchildren; it'll give him an excuse to visit parliament a bit more often than he does.

  67. @original:

    "made me feel like I was watching kids TV"

    That hits the nail on the head. I appreciate that the BBC speaks to all audiences but frankly I could have done with more science and less Alice jiggling about in the Kalahari. Much as it pains me to say that, obviously...

  68. You could always email the moderators, you 'may' get a response, although I think even as they made that provision they immediately included a caveat to remind us that the mods are very busy people and can't reply to every(any)one.....

    Great post though!

  69. @sartrecastic:

    I've got a bag of sweets here for you, you minx.

    Only joking. Winston's image has obviously become a shortcut for "Great Britishness", "bulldog spirit", "never surrender", etc.


    Great post. Galloway's an idiot. I got as far as "English snobbery" and pulled the rip chord, to be honest.

    @jay: heh, not the snow in Norway, you wouldn't. Particularly when you're out in it at night freezing your tits off trying to work out which way up your map goes while your corporal is looking at you like you've just won Idiot of the Year at the annual Village Idiots Award ceremony.

  70. Thanks for more leek info, Swifty, and thanks too, Anonymous...

  71. LordSummerisle20 May, 2009 16:16

    I've emailed the mods, doohnibor. I'll not hold my breath in antici ....... pation.

  72. Talking about mods... billp's user profile on CiF is ominously empty. Was he banned, and is that why he ended up here?

  73. sartrecastic20 May, 2009 16:51



    That may be so but the fact he was pro-European integration would seem to put a dampener on the idea that it's inherently patriotic to oppose it.

    I just have to wonder what Winston would say about it all. And if people actually look at the billboards and think, "Aye, Churchill would never have gone in for all this United States of Europe stuff, Brussels bureaucrats, banana regulations, European schools rant rant rant rave rave rave."

    What would he say about *that*?

  74. sartrecastic20 May, 2009 16:56

    Not to debase myself by personally turning the EU question into a question of What Would Winston Do? But I wouldn't want my image slapped posthumously on a campaign for something I didn't agree with. It may well be that Churchill is now a symbol beyond his views but surely there should be a bit of cognitive dissonance going on in their heads, perhaps? Maybe a niggling feeling that it is slightly inconsistent? A pang of conscience?

    Or perhaps I'm asking too much.

  75. "heh, not the snow in Norway, you wouldn't. Particularly when you're out in it at night freezing your tits off trying to work out which way up your map goes while your corporal is looking at you like you've just won Idiot of the Year at the annual Village Idiots Award ceremony."

    I was thinking more of a cosy log cabin with the occasional stroll out to collect firewood, Swifty, getting shouted at by a corporal would really dampen my holiday spirits...

  76. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8059747.stm

    Prison is too good for her, it really is.

  77. sartrecastic20 May, 2009 17:25

    "I also recognise that acting within the rules doesn't cut it with the public..."

    Is it just me or did she sound particularly petulant when she said that?

    Bloody *public* with their *standards*. Who on earth do they think they are? Et cetera.

    Oh how I hate her.

  78. Petuland, arrogant, completely vile human being. The whole thing is our fault according to Blears, she's done nothing wrong but we've gone and got in a strop...

  79. Blears will be gone soon, with any luck. The pressure is on to call an early election - let's keep that pressure up.

    We, the little people who dare to criticise the Mighty Blears, will let her know who is boss.

  80. Re 'Human Journey', which I didn't see - check this out. It took me fuckin' ages to find it (I'd seen it on the net some years ago). Great stuff!

    Journey of Mankindbtw - The Big Lebowski is on telly here in half an hour. Having just seen the Hannah Montana movie with my daughter, this is a huge bonus! Actually, the film wasn't that bad - at least the lass can sing. One strange thing about it was that, although it took place in rural Tennessee, there was no smokin', no drinkin', and a marked absence of morbidly obese people. That's Disney realism for you, I guess.

  81. Clay soil is a bit of a bugger, but it does have its advantages (holds on to nutrients well).

    Clay soil requires most attention and adjustment because in winter and early spring it becomes water-logged, and it summer it dries to hard baked clumps.

    What to do:

    Towards the middle/end of spring you need to prepare the soil for increased water retention by digging in organic matter (manure, compost, leaf mould) and when the summer is nearly over and the chill in the air can be felt, you need to dig in some grit (sharp sand). This helps to break down the clay and allows the water to drain.

    So constant attention to conditions is the key, but it is worth it. Many people are really happy to have clay soil as, if tended well, can yeild superior results to gritty or loamy soil.

    You may need to adjust for acid/lime content depending on what you want to grow.

  82. I heard blears talking on radio 4 on my drive home. It was actually hard not to shout at the radio. It astounds me - the sheer arrogance. That she thinks she can stay too. Then there was a segment with interviews with some people from her constituency - electorate and some other bods - I didn't catch who but they were talking about how everyone still talks about the previous incumbent in her post and how he is still very much respected and referred to and that would never happen for blears and then that she was finished. That cheered me up and I hope it comes to pass.

    I kind of agree with Jay when he said earlier that it would be best not to have a general election just yet - push these changes through first. God I want this lot to go but frankly, it's not like the other lot will be any better is it?

    I always vote but it's getting really disheartening tbh. I may just spoil my ballot on purpose next time round.

    Rambling a bit there...soz

  83. Sherfig - that site is great. I think I spent rather a lot of time watching the videos (if it's the same one I am thinking of) when I was meant to be revising for my final exams at uni many many moons ago (well it was relevant and a lot more entertaining than reading research papers!)

  84. Original

    No you weren't rambling. It is difficult to know who to vote for and I have opted for the LibDems as being the least worst of the three major parties. With the FPTP system, there is no point in voting for the minor parties and the Greens are the only ones I could vote for in all conscience.

    I don't think waiting a year for a general election is going to make things any better though, frankly. I would like to see an election in October.

  85. BB - that's what I have been doing. Just moved but where I was living the LibDem candidate was actually excellent. But I just see Lab and Con as just as bad as each other and I can't see LibDems either winning or then actually being any good.

  86. sartrecastic20 May, 2009 19:53

    I'll be voting for the first time in June and whenever the GE is. Definitely for the Lib Dems, and it's not even an "I disagree with them the least" kind of thing. I suppose I am deluding myself to at least a very small degree but I acually like them, and share most of their positions. I even quite like Nick Clegg.

    I didn't too much at first, but then he called Gordon Brown stupid. To his face! I did prefer old Ming though. That was when I started liking the Liberals, when I saw him on Question Time on a few instances. I think that was around the time I started being permitted to stay up late enough to watch Question Time.

    Showing my age again, am I?

  87. Oh my god - I really need to move but my kitten is sleeping on my lap and he had his first vaccinations today and I feel guilty so I don't want to move him!

    Cats - so manipulative. He's only 12 weeks old and he's mastered the skill already.

  88. original - tell me about it. They really study us don't they? and know exactly which buttons to push.

    Mine has decided its time her human fed her so I had better do what madam wants! (actually I love her to pieces!) She cracks me up when she gets annoyed with me! face like a smacked arse! ears flat back.

    OOPS! must stop obsessing about my cat!

  89. Without diverting the thread too much, or going on about cats- they are hilarious. He's currently in the chewing everything phase and if he gets too carried away and bites too much I just put his own foot in his mouth. He then attacks it and looks utterly confused. Every time. Hehe.

  90. That was for annetan btw.