08 May 2009

Daily Chat 08/05/09

Happy VE Day, everybody.  I could make a snarky comment about us saving your sorry butts from the Germans again, but I wouldn't mean it.  Most of you would realise I didn't mean it.  It would be in poor taste.  And we all know that I'm nothing if not full of taste.


  1. Have we lost a month somewhere? ;-)

    Montana we know all Americans don't think that - I remember Michael Moore in Sicko referring to the London Blitz as '9/11 night after night afternight' or something like that!

    Think it was in Sicko - best bits were
    the Cubam health service treating 9/11 fire fighters for respiratory disorders
    The look on the faces of that couple leaving Hammersmith Hospital with a new baby when he asked them how much the hospital bill was. WE've forgotten what a hospital or doctors bill is in this country - it was a salutory reminder!

    But the best pont of all was the fact that we founded the NHS when we were practically bankrupted by WW2. A good argument against all the right wing idiots who claim 'we can't afford it'.

    So is Cuba actually although its questionable politically economicaly it has performed miracles with both health and education.

    PS can we have May back please - its my favourite month - all the fresh new leaves on the trees! ;-) and it starts with May day (which should be celebrated with May poles May queens and all that as well as being internal workers day!)

  2. Toast & Marmite08 May, 2009 08:24

    Morning all. The last 24 hours of government shambles has almost reduced me to rocking backwards and forwards with my arms grasped round my knees and a beatific grin plastered upon my face. You can just imagine the likes of Private Eye journos hyper-ventilating as they gasp "too - much - to - satire." In military terminology, it's a target rich environment!

    Happy VE Day Montana. The old "if it weren't for us you'd be speaking German," is still being used as a tiresome comedy trope in American programmes. Whilst I don't get particularly aerated about it, I wonder how many of your fellow countrymen actually believe it still?

  3. If it wasn't for you yanks, my granny wouldn't of had any nylons and choccies, I know that much. Friendly woman was my gran.


  4. I hope you appreciate that if it wasn't for the British, you'd all be speaking French.

    Actually, we should probably apologise for that. Tant pis.

  5. Hi Montana, happy VE day to you!
    And thank you for putting my comic site up- really appreciate it. I need all the publicity I can get...
    So are you a journalist? I only ask because of wildHACK but maybe that's just English slang.
    I've been having some problems getting my post to your site. Usually I have to do it twice as the first time I get told my attempt has failed but it usually works the second time. Sometimes it doesn't work at all and I lose my post. Anyone else have similar problems?
    So are you in Montana? Sounds a beautiful place. "Montana" is my all time favourite Zappa track (Overnight Sensation). Poor bloke- I really miss him...
    All the best, Dan

  6. Montana Wildhack? Read all about her in Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse Five, here:


    Free online books at Wowio.

    What is WOWIO?
    WOWIO is a new kind of online bookstore and your one stop shop for ebooks. With WOWIO, you can read complete books online for FREE or pay to download PDF versions of the same ebooks. On occasion, some downloads will be offered FREE to members of WOWIO through commercial sponsorship. With the support of commercial sponsorships, online ads, and your paid downloads, WOWIO is able to compensate authors and publishers with the mission to FREE BOOKS + FREE MINDS.

  7. OF COURSE! Now I remember... Slaughterhouse Five- what a great book! Also loved Cat's Cradle but my favourite was Sirens of Titan.
    Thanks for that, Bill...

  8. What was the official result of Britain's participation in the Iraq "war"? Did they win or lose? Is "skulking away" an accepted exit, under the Geneva Convention? Doesn't someone have to sign something?

  9. I'd just recently read S5 for the first time, and I still didn't recognise MW's handle until someone mentioned the book. I wonder if the MW character is just not memorable?

    Of course, she's not in the story that much.

  10. Your sure this is VE day Montana? Have you crazy Yanks moved it?

    Also, everyone seen Browns expenses for brothers cleaning? Front page of Graun. When these expenses are published in full there is going to be absolute carnage and CIF will be going wild. What joy. You would expect some resignations but knowing the newlab ethos - no one ever resigns, there are never any mistakes, everything is the for the best, everything is within the rules...

  11. Well, you can't have the Prime Minister going about with a dirty brother. It'd be unseemly.

  12. Thanks for WOWIO, Bill. I shall re-read Sirens of Titan. Excellent!

    Re Iraq war- I don't think it was ever officially called a war as such and anyway the US is still there. But 'skulking away' is good.

    Interesting comment about Seattle on previous thread. 22% of homeowners underwater. Jesus H Christ! I knew it rained a lot in Seattle but this is ridiculous. That's global warming for you...
    But seriously, folks, that's an APPALLING statistic. I thought Seattle was a relatively prosperous city.
    Perhaps Montana will give us more info when she gets up...

  13. Jay
    And yet the Tories could field absolutely no-one this morning to discuss it on Today programme. they're keeoping schtum. Although this fact far from exonerates Zanu Labour, there is more than a hint going round that they've all been at it.

    It might help lose the elections for Labour, but it probably won't help any of the others win...

    Another great step forward for democracy...

  14. Dan, you're welcome. You may be interested in the Comics section, under "Select Category". You have to sign in for the adult content ones (not all that adult, really). However, you can sign in with gobbledygook if you want. There is no email verification, etc.

  15. It IS an appalling statistic. Especially when you stop to consider just how many homes are involved in "22% of all US homeowners".

    Take away the job (which is also happening at an appalling rate), add no unemployment mortgage insurance...

    I read somewhere that the average American has about a 1 to 2 month emergency fund.

  16. "I don't think it was ever officially called a war as such"

    Well you clearly missed the memo - it was a "liberation".

    Bitterweed - yep the cowardly thieves are all keeping quiet because they know when the shit hits the fan they're going to be in the firing line too, thieving bastards. I hope the public gets suitably riotous over all this when the full details are released.

  17. Just read you response again, Dan. That stat was for ALL US homeowners, not just Seattle.

  18. According to Diane Abbott on This Week, Labour parliamentary whips have been put on suicide watch in anticipation of the full expenses claims coming out. She wasn't joking either.

    This is going to be brutal.

    Tomorrow's treat is the Tory shadow cabinet. Hee hee.

  19. Iraq War. Search for "Iraq War" or "Iraq War Guardian".

    I've always wondered who the war was against, and when it was declared (it wasn't).

    Ditto for the Afghanistan War.

    I think the Bush admin tried to fence-sit, calling it the "War in Iraq", whatever that means.

  20. "According to Diane Abbott on This Week, Labour parliamentary whips have been put on suicide watch in anticipation of the full expenses claims coming out. She wasn't joking either."

    I cant believe this, i really cant, i suspect its a ploy to get public sympathy and show how truly sorry they are, they are racked with guilt, they all such snivelling scumbags i would be truly astonished to think any of them would contemplate suicide over this, after all, the deaths of half a million Iraqis hasnt seemed to have caused them too much distress.

    Or am i being overly cynical?

  21. This expenses thing is going to be great! And if the tories cant find a good line for the today programme it must mean their closets are full of skeletons too. Who will be left standing?

  22. "...Due to the expenses scandal, the government has decided to introduce compulsory ID cards earlier than planned. It is thought that the introduction of the cards will help prevent both terrorism and ripoffs."

  23. JayReilly
    As a tangent - "I hope the public gets suitably riotous over all this"
    Well ... consider the increasing surveilance culture, and the founding of ACPO, and their bizarre unaccounatability / financing structure... new criminal justice legislation...

    And then the increasing amount of justifiable, understandable, reasons the public have got to hit the streets and demonstrate this year, the more the scene appears to have already been set to contain the anger.

    Coincidence ? Or is this my paranoia ?

    BTW - Diane Abott talks any old shite to get on telly. Can't stand the woman.


  24. "i would be truly astonished to think any of them would contemplate suicide over this, after all, the deaths of half a million Iraqis hasnt seemed to have caused them too much distress.".

    Half a million deaths is one thing. Putting your amyl nitrate and mandarin oranges on expenses something else. Or possibly the hotels they've been visiting with their secretaries.

    Who knows what treats like in store.

    Incidentally, changing the subject from "MPs - what a bunch of cunts" to "MPs - what a bunch of cunts" did anyone see Nadine Dorries on QT last night? What a vile, evil idiot. "Trident is not a weapon of mass destruction."


  25. Oh. Don't know where Seattle came from, then. That makes it even worse. Things must be pretty desperate over there. Sooner or later the great American public are going to realise exactly how thoroughly they've been ripped off and then god knows what carnage will take place. Civil war?

    As for NuLab sleaze- I just can't believe what goes on in their minds. I used to do the occasional very petty shoplifting when I was young and poor (still poor, not so young) but stopped when I realised how dreadfully embarrassing it would be if I was caught nicking such trivial stuff. I thought of my mum and my mates reading it in the local paper. So didn't it ever cross their minds (Brown, Smith etc) that they ran the same risk and was it worth it? These are people on hefty salaries in high profile jobs with much to lose if found out.
    The only conclusion one can reach is that not only are they greedy, they are FUCKING STUPID.
    Like you, Jay, I can't believe the suicide watch story either and I don't think you're being overly cynical.

  26. Further to the "underwater" thing, and with regard to Dan's "I thought Seattle was a relatively prosperous city."...

    From: Wall Street Journal Blogs

    "Affluent Homeowners: Underwater and Sinking Fast

    "The tide is rising for high-end borrowers. Some traditionally stable housing markets are facing new stress as rising numbers of affluent homeowners find that they have little to no equity in their homes...

    "In the San Jose-Santa Clara, Calif., area, almost two-thirds of all outstanding mortgages are jumbo, according to Zillow. In that market, nearly one in five homeowners are underwater and that figure rises to around 45% when looking at mortgages obtained within the last five years."


    What's that rumbling noise?

  27. Yes, saw Nadine Dories, f@cking idiot, like a nightmare where a character out of Gavin and Stacey becomes an MP...

  28. bitterweed. yes it does appear as if the scene is very set indeed. Like its all been planned and prepared for. Just because youre paranoid doesnt mean theyre not out to get you!

  29. Dan, the initial stat was issued by a Seattle-based real estate data service (whatever that is).

  30. ""Trident is not a weapon of mass destruction."

    Jesus christ, they really dont have an ounce of shame. The sole purpose of Trident is that it is a weapon of mass destruction, that is all it is, all it was ever supposed to be, that is its raison d'etre. Doublethink at its finest.

    "Like you, Jay, I can't believe the suicide watch story either and I don't think you're being overly cynical."

    Yeah they knew they are going to get ripped to shreds for all this, they have given up trying to withold publication, so the only thing left to do is try and deal with the fallout. They know they cant play the "it was within the rules" line so i strongly suspect they have all decided to go for public sympathy and a big public show of remorse and suicidal guilt. If they were that guilty they wouldnt have stolen our money in the first place. I would ideallly like to see them charged for fraud and/or theft.

    The more i think about this, the more absurd becomes the notion of a newlab MP committing suicide because they feel bad about ripping off the public - these people have stood by while our own country has been ripped apart, we have invaded other countries, enjoyed the biggest crash since the depression yet still trying to privatise royal mail, and yet this incident is overwhelming them with sorrow? Lying despicable Blairs.

  31. This is not about NewLab (and these rules were introduced by the Tories). It is about ALL MP's. What will be interesting is to see which MP's shamelessly claimed maximum amounts 'within the rules' and which MP's did not. If there are any, of course. Out of 650 members will there be any with a modicum of decency?

  32. "MPs - what a bunch of cunts" did anyone see Nadine Dorries on QT last night? What a vile, evil idiot. "Trident is not a weapon of mass destruction."

    That's a cowardly answer for a right-winger. If you going to support these things, at least have the backbone to describe them for what they are.


  33. Toast and Marmite08 May, 2009 11:59

    The entire panel on QT last night was poor from what I saw, ( I was flicking between QT and Newsnight.) God, by the end, I had the most (very grudgingly given) respect for the Labour MSP, who at least tried to remain courteous unlike the rest.

    I've not seen it in a while, so PLEASE tell me that the audiences aren't always that full of single - issue nutters and triabl loyalists.

  34. It's a shame no journo thought to invoke the "court of public opinion" this morning when Hattie Harman was doing the rounds of the news studios. And I actually swore at the TV when "Lord" Mandelson was justifying the three grand he decided to spend on his monkeyhanger home the week after he said he was stepping down as an MP.

    Shameless twankunts the lot of them.

  35. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/08/mps-expenses-labour

    Thats the article on it. I hope it gets a lot of very, very angry comments, who knows maybe the lethargic british public will actually be stirred for once... Thieving little vermin. They should all be utterly ashamed to show their faces in public. Please god can the Hague take these people off our hands...

  36. Toast and Marmite08 May, 2009 12:01

    should be 'tribal.' (Is it possible to edit posts?)

  37. (Is it possible to edit posts?) Dont worry about it, it was all legible.

  38. Ed Balls: "I'm certainly not hiding behind the rules, it's the fact that all these claims were within the rules"

    I'm reminded of G Brown "taking full responsibility, the person responsible has been sacked".

  39. Oooh oooh oooh

    Look what's in my e-mails!


    Dear reader

    Every year Guardian News and Media conducts a reader survey to gauge your valued feedback on the paper's social, environmental and ethical responsibilities relating to the editorial and commercial sides of our business.

    The survey is quick and easy to complete and the findings will contribute to Guardian News and Media's 2009 Living Our Values sustainability report, as well as our business strategy.

    To take part in The Guardian's reader survey please click here

    Kind regards

    Alan Rusbridger


    The Guardian

  40. @thauma:

    Funny, I had one from Emily Bell inviting me to a conference or something. Very nice of her and that, but I've asked to be unsubscribed forthwith. I get enough spam through the email letterbox every day without the Graun sending me more.


    Claim: The former deputy prime minister claimed £312 for the fitting of mock Tudor beams to the front of his constituency home in Hull and in December 2004 a plumber charged him £210.79 for pipework, taps and to "refix WC seat," according to the newspaper. In September 2006, he put a £112.52 repair bill on expenses, which included "refit WC seat". He has not commented so far on the report.

    why is prezza getting through so many wc seats? Oh, the mental images! my eyes, my eyes THEY BURN!

  42. The thread about the new modding rules etc is up!

  43. What an exciting day! Dammit, I have work to do!


    "On June 27th 2007, John Prescott resigned as Depity Prime Minister to spend more time with his pies."

  45. thaumaturge

    Oh... the possibilities !

    Likewise, I have tons to do today, away all weekend and travelling back from West Country on Monday....

    F@ck it. better get cracking tonight then...

  46. Where's Kizbot ?

    And yeah - olching too - haven' seen him for a couple of weeks ...?

  47. Kizbot "So, any of the recently banned can contact the Guardian with a view to regaining their posting rights?"

    Georgina Henry - "Yes, absolutely."

    Hank? Monkeyfish? What you reckon?

  48. Get the torches!!!!!

  49. Also, can someone please post a comment on the open thread for me (i be very grateful)!! I think its quite an important point, well sort of:

    At present there is no way of knowing you have been put on premod until you press the Post button. I was put in premod though i wasnt made aware of it, so my next post was equally vitriolic. When i pressed post only then did i realise i was in premod so stopped being obscene and abusive.

    From the mods point of view, this was continuing to post obscenities despite being in premod, because my first premod post was obscene - so i was banned. The point is the user doesnt know they are in premod until they post that next comment. So you mods need to be aware that when you put someone in premod, they wont know about it until they post their next comment - if their next comment is filthy and obscene please remember that they were not aware of being in premod. So you really need to give them that 1 post breathing space so that they are actually aware of being in premod.

    Alternatively, when someone is put in premod you should alter something on their post function so that they are aware of it before they post that next, and potentially fatal, comment.

    (bitterweed, thauma, someone put this up for me?)

  50. @bitterweed:

    Nice post on the "all new mod rules" thread. They really need to improve the quality of the articles they publish. I'd go so far as to suggest that they reduce the amount they publish daily by half, I think there really is that much rubbish up there.

    If they had half the articles with twice the quality, that site would be improved hugely.

  51. "Frankly, who'd piss on them if they were on fire?"

    ""I would actually - as it wouldn't be as satisfying once they were dead.""

    mr pikebishob

    That made me smile

  52. Swifty - agreed - they use to have much less articles, and much less dross. Whats the score with the old leather and willow?

  53. err. that was on the mps expenses thread

  54. @jay:

    Windies in deep doo doo - it's a "calypso collapso" as Nasser Hussain has helpfully pointed out.

    They're taking lunch, 80-5, following on, trailing by 145 runs.

    I've been enjoying all the Onions gags as well. "Thanks shallot", "Onions brings tear to Windian eyes" etc etc

    Georgina is a fan of Kizbot it seems. Sensible woman.

  55. 80-5?!?! magnifico!!! Reminds me of when they skittled us for 46 and Athers relayed the story of just "sitting in the shower with my head down listening to the cheers as the wickets fell"..

    Everyone likes the tricksy Greek, other than ellymiranda and lenfirewood. If there had to be a ciffers representative it would undoubtedly be her i think (if she could maintain some level of sobriety).

  56. Very anodyne article by Georgina. It just bored me to distraction. In many ways, this whole moderation thing has been a distraction from the key problem of ATL quality. I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of really good Cif articles I've seen in the last few months - and there have been literally thousands of pieces. It really does look like quantity rather than quality is the new policy. I've only really commented on the open threads recently, and this 'new' Cif policy won't change that. I think they've lost the plot, and the site is nowhere near as interesting as it once was. I suppose bunging no-talent writers £70 a time to write shite and push hot-button identity politics might make sense to them when GMG are losing £30 million a year, but it won't attract me. I've more or less given up on Cif. Sad, really - the G used to be a good newspaper.

  57. SwiftyBoy
    cheers - exactly !

    Got to get on with some work now... have agood avo y'all..

  58. @scherfig:

    Well put. In the scramble for eyeballs, and by covering every conceivable angle of every "issue" to fucking death, they've lost sight of what's important - quality.

    No loss to the party I know, but I ain't going back.

  59. Swifty - not even if you say one of those young Turks striding out to the crease, like BREEZE? You wouldnt come and join the slip cordon for an afternoon?

  60. not even if you SAW i mean, not say

  61. Georgina: "We don't edit"....."I repeat, WE DON'T EDIT, we haven't got the technical ability to"

    Ultima: "I was rather sure one post by BB was edited. It had content in it before that is not there now."


    And now she's going to send a "longish" post with "proof" to Georgina. I'm sure she'll be delighted. Keep digging, Ultima, just keep digging...

  62. She's lost it, she really has.

  63. @Jay:

    Tempting as it would be to don the old whites and clatter down the pavillion steps to the sound of an appreciative ripple from the assembled multitudes...

    No. I'll still read it occasionally but as I say it's the poor quality of the stuff they put out that's the bar, really. There is literally no point drawing swords over, say, Cath Elliot's piece today. If you haven't seen it, I'll sum it up for you:

    "Aren't men silly and untrustworthy? And insecure as well. They never ever go the GPs, that's true, that. And they're responsible for all the stories in the press about feckless single mothers.

    P.S. I've already forgotten about Karen Matthews"

  64. Swifty and scherfig - you're right. The latest effort on Dan Brown is really scraping the barrel. When it gets to the stage that I find myself in complete agreement with MaM it's time to leave.....

  65. Ultima's not been taking her meds

    08 May 09, 1:34pm (35 minutes ago)
    Could I maybe e-mail you to give you an example [of "deleting corrections"]? Is there an adress I can E mail to? It's rather long-winded.
    I was rather sure one post by Beautiful Burnout was edited .It had content in it before that is not there now.

  66. Oops, should have refreshed before posting that! I see Pandora got there first.

    Cath is very good at writing controversial pieces that will attract loads of comments (and therefore revenue). I'm sure this is what the Graun really wants and commissions.

    Bindel in the Lifestyle section is much tamer than when she's on Cif - what else could be the explanation? I even remember reading something she wrote that complimented a ... a ... a man!

  67. Old Georgie's dodging the issues like billy-o
    Waste of time. Oh well.

  68. @Bitterweed:

    Good effort there though, old man, enjoyed that. Unfortunately, when she did (ahem) "engage", she came out with that rubbish about contemporary, fast-moving blah blah, though, as you say. Quite a feat - talking rubbish about publishing rubbish.

  69. "just to say, she asked a brilliant and pointed question about moderation, which really threw me, and then we had a very interesting talk afterwards. She's just like her screen persona: funny, friendly, and very tough about things she believes strongly in. She made her case very well. And since it was all so public, we then got interviewed together by a Greek newspaper."

    I see, so the Dark Lady of Mordoration gets to meet Kiz but we dont, typical...

    And also, why has Kiz not been here bursting with news that she was interviewed with a Greek paper with Georgina Henry??!?!?!? I dont know what that drunkard has been up to these last few days but she needs to come and explain herself.

  70. Swifty - i know the feeling mate, its a lot of tiresome shite, but i still think they publish some good stuff - its just much rarer than it used to be, maybe the crunch is tightening their commissioning belts.

    It looks like a bit of a softening on the bannings line to me, from what Georgina said, so would be nice to see MF and Hank back in the game, but if olching and you and other good posters arent going to be around the place will feel a bit empty. Particularly if the strokeplayers come out to play and the rain hold off...

    Thauma - the thule has officially lost it, even the mods are playing tricks on her now, editing posts - completely off her rocker...

  71. pandora, just looked at the Dan Brown thing. Beech has form on this sort of thing - Shakespeare, poetry etc. Another tedious attempt at 'provocation'. He'll get some response, of course, but personally it bores me to tears. I think it's what the Guardian perceives as controversial and cutting edge, and it may well cause a few croissants to go down the wrong way in Islington. Job done!

  72. Swifty,

    Hiya Swifty - think may be overdoing the hyperbole about Cath's blog a bit!

    Re Ultimathule,

    I did post - in response to her increasingly hysterical pleas for vindication - the precise quotes which led to her getting the wrong end of the stick. I was trying kindly to spare her from making more of a tit of herself than she already had. I was deleted.

    I do think (especially following her posting under another name saying people shouldn't be horrid to Ultimathule 'cos she has mental problems, and the fact she now thinks people can edit their posts) that she has a real pathological inability accept critical logic.

    Also, 'dumbass' now gets one deleted.

  73. 'Ultima's not been taking her meds'

    Lay off with the baying hounds guys - you're looking particularly ugly

  74. Beech is the final reason I jacked it in.

    "Hitler actaually was a good painter (gasp!), therefore you can't judge someonne's character from their art (ooh!)."

    What an enormous CUNT.

  75. @Jay: True enough mate, I'm sure there'll still be some truffles amongst all the shite, but taking the time to wade through it all... actually, I may be approaching this wrong. I maybe should just keep a "shit list" of useless and/or "edgy" contributors and avoid them. I submit:

    Afua Hirsch, Rowenna Nice, Inayat Bunglawala, Peter Beech, that dull dull dull young Wimbledon resident, that Polish bint, Salma Yaqoob, Cath Elliot, Julie Bindel, La Grande Toynbee...

    @scherfig: very much enjoyed the image of croissants going down the wrong way in Islington. Except it's lunchtime, so it's probably a nice cold glass of Pinot and some of that lovely bruschetta Luigi sends over from Tuscany, mwah.

    @Yeractual: I know, I know. Call me a bad-tempered old cuss or something, she just winds me up with the dim, limited view of the world she has. It's all men's fault, this oppression of the sisterhood, yet aren't men useless? Puzzles me how the male of the species has been able to connive to keep the female of the species downtrodden, while being utterly rubbish at the same time?

  76. 'What an enormous CUNT'.

    Beech is a Sheelagh na Gig? Blimey, don't tell kiz.

  77. scherfig - yeah, I really should know better than to get involved. I just couldn't resist when Beech posted about the lovely exposition in Brown's opening paragraphs. That one is so easy to tear to shreds on an almost word by word basis, it's ridiculous.

  78. Dan I almost always have to press the Post Comment button twice to get a comment posted. I'm using Vienna RSS reader on a Mac, but I get it using Safari 3x as well. Couple of days ago I scribbled off a last topical reply and hit 'post comment' then went to bed. When I got up it was still waiting. You change nothing and hit it again and it goes, most frustrating.

    First try:
    Your request could not be processed. Please try again.

  79. "and it may well cause a few croissants to go down the wrong way in Islington." Tickled me...

    Beech is a bit of a comedy troll, though fairly harmless.

    Parallax - to be fair ultimathule has been quite spiteful and unpleasant herself this last week, not to mention a whole host of lies for which she has apologised for not one. Even people that were always nice to her, like Kiz and Annetan, she turned on in a flash because of her mistaken reading of Caths blog.

    Swifty - i havent bothered with Beech's latest, but he is a good example of the seeming downward trend the site has taken in terms of writers. Just seems a bit out of his depth. The Graun is also suffering due to Newlabs decline and current shame, they are such a cheerleader it seems to stifle the whole paper when the regime is universally loathed, look at how far Tonybee has fallen...

  80. Jay - "to be fair" is the prominent part of your response

  81. scherfig - what on earth did you say to get modded on the modding thread? :-D

    Am annoyed that all this good stuff has been posted on Cif on a Friday afternoon cos I won't be able to get to it (probably) until Monday, and that's only if workload permits, which is fairly unlikely.

  82. Parallax - Yes, that was a bit of a nasty comment on my part but, as Jay pointed out, not half as nasty as some of the things that the person in question has posted against others. And I really do think that she's at least giving an excellent impression of someone with a mental disorder. Probably I shouldn't have mocked the afflicted.

  83. "scherfig - what on earth did you say to get modded on the modding thread? :-D"

    I was going to ask yeractual the same thing!

  84. @jay: Beech is but one wretched example of the controversy-seeking contrarian that the Graun seems to be encouraging these days. I can see the editorial meeting now... frapuccinos, pains au chocolat, "now Beechy, what have you got for us this week?" "Well Matt, I was thinking that Tom Cruise is the finest actor Hollywood has ever produced" "Brilliant, I'll have some of that. Now then... Bidisha?"

  85. scherfig - what on earth did you say to get modded on the modding thread? :-D

    What thread was that? Don't think I've had anything deleted. I haven't even commented on today's thread. No point.

  86. pandora, you made me do it as well :0) I had to follow your lead. Ah well, anything (nearly) for a laugh.

  87. "I can see the editorial meeting now... frapuccinos, pains au chocolat, "now Beechy, what have you got for us this week?" "Well Matt, I was thinking that Tom Cruise is the finest actor Hollywood has ever produced" "Brilliant, I'll have some of that. Now then... Bidisha?""

    Hetro wives are "prostitutes"? Nope, sorry, done that one....

  88. 'Magnolia', although, OK, Cruise is bonkers.

  89. scherfig, I just cannot forgive him for making me agree with MaM.

    That must be the first time in the history of CiF that a MaM got recommend 35 times (at the last count). Absolutely unbelievable.

  90. oh hell, they've actually gone and defended their "report abuse" policy and can't see anything wrong with it.

  91. Is see old FightThePoor is strutting his/her stuff... very prim and proper, and absolutely flushed that Georgies' given 'em pat on the head.

    It's all so bless...

  92. @pandora - are you kidding? MaM regularly gets 100+ reccs. There are a lot of sick people out there.

    Well well well. Well. Interesting developments today then people, non? So if I e-mail the mods with the requisite commitment, do I get to be reinstated before Jay?!

    Thanks to all on here and elsewhere who've kicked up a fuss on behalf of me and others. You know who you are. Much appreciated. The virtual drinks are on me tonight.


    Not wishing to look this particular gift horse in the mouth, but I'm undecided about whether to resurrect Hank. Some contemplation needed.

    @Jay - as a follow up to your "who the hell was that poster", was Khartoumi, as the name suggests, based in Sudan? There was another poster from Sudan a year or so who got banned and I can't remember his name. He was a really interesting guy. We had a chat one night and it turned out his dad taught at my school some years before I was there.

    Can't remember his name and it's been bugging me. Good leftie, very bright, was really informed about US foreign policy, strings attached to Western aid to Africa, Islam etc.

    Any ideas?

  93. "So if I e-mail the mods with the requisite commitment, do I get to be reinstated before Jay?!"

    Probably, but im not bitter, not at all, i dont mind missing the mod thread, Bindel on make up, Cath on male contraceptives, Bolton, no no, you folk carry on, i'll just be wandering around here by myself, weeping occasionally...

    "Thanks to all on here and elsewhere who've kicked up a fuss on behalf of me and others. You know who you are. Much appreciated. The virtual drinks are on me tonight."

    Ditto. I have a sneaky feeling the Guardian may have had a rethink on the success of permanent bans, they know people just come back under different monikers, so they may now think it better to tell us naughty kids to go and cool down for a few weeks and then send an apologetic email, though a repeat of the same offence may be different, so if i went back on and called someone a cunt or shitbag fucking cocksucker or something, i dont think there would be much hope of a reprieve. But generally it sounded to me like a bit of a softening of policy.

    Cant remember who you're thinking of though Hank, and im still gutted no one remembered the little jester thats been playing on my mind...

  94. Brilliant comment by NiallStanage

    (im getting quite upset now i cant join in this one...)

  95. Agree about Stanage
    Good stuff.

  96. Cif's latest 'You said it' selection from winthorpe. Strangely, somewhat against the prevalent view, and in support of Beech's views in the Dan Brown article.

    Booker, Whitbread, magic realism is all shit, apparently. Give us Dan Brown, the lad can construct a sentence. Dumbing down is good.

    Why bother, Hank? You're wasted there.


  97. Jay

    But but but... I'm kind of with Hank:

    A pissed off at people I like getting banned, but furthermore

    B fed up with the whole shenanegans. I feel like I'm having my cock pulled every day with some of these articles - and yes I mean the ones about 'weighty issues' (see how Georgina tried to turn that into a chat about their rag-week kids?)

    So... I dunno...

    Wish I could help with the AWOL's names guys.

    Speaking of AWOL, where the fuck's olching ?? Week off ?

  98. I am knackered after a long week and not enough sleep. You lot kept me up late on Weds night and last night, er, someone else kept me up late.

    Result: it's 6.51 on a Friday night and I am already at home from the pub. Disgraceful, I tell you.

    Hope there are enough other sad bastards hanging around for a wee while until I can decently go to bed....

  99. scherfig - apologies if I got it wrong, I thought it wuz u got deleted, but am currently too lazy to go back and look.

    Too right on the Dan Brown thing - construct a sentence, my arse. He wouldn't know a well-constructed sentence if he fell over it, and to compare him unfavourably with, say, García Márquez, is a crime. (Haven't read the article but that's the interpretation I put on what you've said.)

  100. thaumaturge
    Well I'm staying in, got big day tomorrow, can't get too wankered. Going for a curry now, but back soon. Got any good tunes ?

  101. Gah - I meant favourably/wine intake

    [no, not really]

  102. BitterweedHow about this one?


  103. p.s. Don't watch the vid - just close eyes & listen (at least first time)

  104. Thanks thauma, will check that when I'm back.

  105. p.p.s That seems to be a shortened version. :-(

  106. Bitterweed, I'd like to be a complete wanker here. I too am staying in, and I too am having a 'curry'. It will be home-made lamb rogan josh with home-made rasedar khumbi aloo and home-made peelay chaaval. I bought the nan bread from the supermarket though.

    You'd better find some good tunes.

  107. Ok, see youse in an hour or so !

  108. Im in, out tomorrow and certainly cant afford two nights out. Who's doing jukebox duties then?

    As for olching, there's no mystery, the lazy git is clearly just neglecting his duties.

  109. scherfig - stop showing off!

  110. Well I'm with Hank and Bitterweed. I'm not sure about wanting to go back. I'll even agree to abide by the rules are long as they are interpreted as they were prior to 6 months ago. I still contend that it was not the tone of my posts that changed but the moderation policy. I'm pretty sure my style stayed constant and with the odd deletion, I posted away merrily for...dunno..ages. Next thing you know, I'm forever in premod and suffering an attrition rate of about 75%.

    If there's any intention on cif's part to revert to the previous level of tolerance then I'm happy to return. I'm not imagining this am I? It did get more stringent, didn't it?

    Also, I'm not sure that I can steer clear of the occasional ad hominem. That sanctimonious little fucker BTH, is just begging for it; just cos his mum's the teacher.

    I'm in for the night anyway. Nipping down Morrisons for a carryout in a minute. Probably sink a couple and then think of something contentious to start a row about. I think this place lacks diversity; too similar politically. Got to be something else.

  111. I'll play jukebox for a wee while.

    We wuz discussin Daniel Lanois recently.

    The Maker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBw3S9IAKPc. Album version has Aaron Wotsit on backing vocals - superb - voice of angel - unfortunately my CD destroyed by freak dog-caused flood.

    Jolie Louise http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVNISWXsUq8 - he said, when I saw him, that this was about his parents - very poignant. In franglais, according to his French-Canadian heritage. I like O Marie very much also in this vein but didn't see a recording. It's all about working the tobacco fields. Quite Marxist.

  112. Oh shit. Forgot to say...and I should have done...cheers to anyone who supported my reinstatement and tbh, I probably will try again but I'm not toning anything down. I know it sounds a bit self righteous and everything but there really is something very insidious about self censorship. I can live with the fact that cif might not like what I've got to say but the notion that their disapproval would make me consider changing what I say or even the style is abhorrent to me. Once you are consciously moderating your style of expression it can't be long before your thinking gets infected.

  113. Hiya Jay,

    "im still gutted no one remembered the little jester thats been playing on my mind...Are you sure it wasn't SteveEdwards, or one of his aliases? He was the guy who posted a lot about god's will, why homosexuality is an abomination to God and Society and how you should only ever have sex within wedlock for the strict pupose of having kids. Once people took the piss abit, I'm afraid, and accused him of never having sex. He disappeared from posting for an hour and then came back to announce righteously to the Internet that he'd just had sex with his wife and he hoped she was pregnant.

    One of his posts:

    "It's not entirely their fault if, when a vulnerable and desperate young person, they were misled by the homosexual movement and contemporary culture and co-opted into the gay lifestyle by older predatory homosexuals."And:

    "Furthermore, domestic violence is far higher within homosexual relationships than heterosexual relationships, even cohabiting heterosexual relationships. And yet this government has done all it can to promote and normalise homosexuality."You get the drift. Sure it wasn't him?

  114. Look, can we have no talk of not going back to CiF? Makes me feel like a sell-out leper. Suggest going back and just being as you were. Reckon the mods will be a little less ham-fisted than they were. Don't start getting principles now for fuck's sake.

  115. Hi it's me here... I think you should come back MF and Hank... The Graun actually did make the first move and offered to let people back on with the only proviso that they agree to the Talk policy.. I think that's fair enuf, no? As for self censoring... i don't think they mind robust debate or even stroppy people... They just really aren't keen on abusive ad homs on fellow posters, writers and attacks on the Guardian itself.. as for BTH and Ultima, I really think its time just to ignore them completely... end of... anything else is pointless..

  116. monkeyfish, that's exactly how I feel. I am not sure if I want to go back to cif either, especially if it is going to be under premod for a while. Still it was nice of them to offer options!

  117. monkeyfish - Please do engage again and let's hope the censorship eases after this brouhaha.

    Yeractual - bloody hell, don't remember that one. Also am glad to see that I am not the only person who is finding it impossible to force a paragraph after an italics tag.

    Anyone who's interested - zzz - Just listened to the Me'Shell NdégeOcello clip again with proper speakers plugged in & sounds a bit better but still losing sound quality - the album (Peace Beyond Passion is superb). She is very interesting; sounds to me like Marvin Gaye meets Grace Jones. Bisexual angry woman bass player as the song shows. What would Bindel/Bidisha make of it?

  118. Community Mod:

    "Sometimes there might be an orchestrated campaign to get a post removed out of spite, but this kind of behaviour is pretty transparent, and it will not lead us to remove the "offending" post - unless there is a genuine case for it to be removed."

    "Thank you."

    Once again, irony is lost on BTH.....

  119. kizbot, thank you for all your efforts, and of course everyone else; it made a huge difference to their decision making. So after all JayR, perhaps your banning was a blessing for many banned posters including myself!

  120. Hi kiz, nice to see you mingle with us lesser mortals now you're a Cif star! ;-)

    Agree about obnoxious posters, but hoping only that you are right about change in policy.

    I say this as someone who, to my knowledge, has never had a post deleted. Although I probably will now I've been posting on here!

  121. Evening Ciffers!

    Just trawling my way through the Mod thread at the moment. Interesting comments in there.

  122. Monkeyfish - im 99% certain that what changed was the report abuse function got made 10 times easier, i think they now get flooded with a hgue amount more reports. Unless im going made, one staff member said as much to me once - they get lots more abuse reports since the regrade. If modding is done perfectly then the number of reports shouldnt affect deletions, as it is always down to mod discretion, but nothings perfect.

    I dont mind not abusing writers, most regulars manage to avoid it, i just hope for us returning from a ban we are not expected to behave better than everyone else. And i hope swifty, olching and bitterweed dont desert.

    Yeractual - that sounds very similar to his stuff but the name just isnt ringing the bell, but stuff just like that you quoted, yep. Did he have any other monikers???

    "It's not entirely their fault if, when a vulnerable and desperate young person, they were misled by the homosexual movement and contemporary culture and co-opted into the gay lifestyle by older predatory homosexuals.""

    Do you think they mean to be so comical?

  123. I am perfectly serious about my threat to abandon all things Guardian if they keep this anonymous report abuse button. At the moment their attitude is really getting to me. One thing's for sure wherever I go on the web I shall be sure to incite people to have some fun with it. Also now we have outed the fact that it is completely anonymous i bet they get a shitload.

  124. I'm a bit knackered having had a rough few days... Got into a fight with the Corfiot coz for the past week I've been posting so much and spent 2 nights at my place... with no tinternet! But tomorrow I will endeavour to tell you all about my encounter with Georgina (liked her a lot) and from the things she said in her talk and from our conversation I really think there has been a bit of change in attitude to us rowdy ciffers... and a good one...

  125. I think it may, at the moment, be better to stay and work on the problem MG... i think the guardian does actually see some aspects of moderation as a work in progress...

  126. Jay, - I can't remember his other nicks, but I know he made a laughing stock out of each one.

    Nah, they have no idea what comical is. There's a point when earnestness tips over into high comedy, a bit like when someone farts at a funeral: it's not the fart that starts the hysterical giggles, it's the po-faced expressions of disapproval it gets.

  127. Yeah, like I say, I probably will give it a go but I think I'm getting paranoid now...things did change, they had tightened up hadn't they? It was getting fuckin silly, wasn't it?

    Hopefully, this new openness and engagement is a tacit acknowledgement of that and a signal that normal business has been resumed. Is that right? hmmm...


  128. Music. Never really got the whole van gogh thinng but listening to 'vincent' with this slideshow really moved me. check it out.

  129. georgina explicitly said in her talk in athens and on the mod thread that the guardian doesn't want cif to be us and them... I think they saw it wasn't working that way...

  130. Kiz where you been? Havent seen you for days.

    "So after all JayR, perhaps your banning was a blessing for many banned posters including myself!"

    Seems that way yeah. Fortuna has spun us a favourable cycle...

    Come on then Wino, tell us about the interview with the Greek paper...

  131. That is not the message they are obstinately sending out at the moment Kizbot and unless I see that message change noticeably then I am gone. I perhaps haven't expressed quite how disturbed I have been by the revelations about that button. I have never pressed it, others have never pressed it yet in the Talk threads people happily revealed they are all over it and that is just the registered, logged in ones. It has been a real eye opener. I can handle the necessary self censorship to live within the 'community guidelines' and my experience of being pre-modded was interesting and instructive.

    For the record I had identified what I thought was a serious discrepancy between how comments to ATL articles in bulk CiF were moderated vs those in the Blog sections where the posters build up a relationship with the Blogger because they engage. When I suggested to the mods in the email conversation that I would raised that with the Reader's Editor all of a sudden I had my posting privileges back. I stood four square behind all the words they objected to and never apologised one jot. So bear that in mind, they seem shit scared of the Reader's Editor . . .

  132. Jay Reilly

    Not sure. Haven't ever clicked one. Don't even notice it tbh. I get called worse things at home, work, in the boozer, walking down the street and even by my ma than anything I've ever seen at cif.

    Hear more racist, misogynistic, fascist and plain loonytoon statements all the time. I either argue cogently against or get abusive. Both have their place. I never go running to tell anyone else. You're probably right. There are censorious little twats all over the place and I suppose if you give them a little buzzer to tell teacher, they'll use it.

  133. I agree with Parallax re ultimathule.

    I believe everyone is fair game on a forum for having their ARGUMENT mercilessly ripped to shreds.

    I believe everyone who gets nasty on a forum is fair game for being subject to all sorts of responses (including sarcasm, etc., but not including name-calling, personal insults, etc.)

    I believe that any poster who BELIEVES that another poster is actually going through real life mental health issues, should lay off that poster entirely forthwith, no matter what that poster comes out with.

    That is, you may fairly deny any false accusations, respond as usual to arguments, etc., but it's always unfair to kick a person you believe is already down. Especially, if you're doing the kicking as part of a club, or mob.

    That IS bullying.

    Besides, the subject is beginning to sound like an obsession with some.

  134. Well I've pressed but only for things that i think are really vile abuse.. And i usually tell the offender I've done it. I've also reported myself when I've been deliberately abusive and recently for a fuck up with a double posting that made me look dumb... in neither case was the post instantly removed... But the one that was removed quickest was the double posting...

  135. I agree with your main points there bill... You gonna come back to cif?

  136. jay will tell you all about the georgina episode tomorrow... To Vima just took pics and listened to my and georgina's conversation and asked a couple of questions..

  137. Thaum

    I am too tired to even go to the pub on the way home most Fridays now. How sad is that?

    Trouble with me is I never end up having just the one on the way home once I am with the work colleagues, and end up wobbling my way across Victoria Station at midnight concentrating very hard on trying not to look like I am pissed.

  138. Am well pissed off cos I'd assembled quite a few clips & commentary for dining pleasure & then bloody PC decided to reboot self for no apparent reason. (Except perhaps put too close to fire in order to be able to plug in speakers. Only thing I can think of.)

    Will try to recreate in slightly abbreviated form.

  139. Muscleguy, i agree the reporting abuse from anonymous viewers is quite a serious problem i think. I have a very strong suspicion that there are plenty of people who dont feel it a "safe" enough environment to actually get involved in, and so instead just use that button to get their point across. They are essentially outside the "community", but are clearly having quite a big influence on what goes on inside.

    It also means they cannot track who is using this button, and thats critical. Its probably a fairly small group causing a large amount of deletions. You should definitely have to have an account and login to report.

    The fire analogy is awful, no one cries Fire to further their own ends, and no ones life is in danger from nasty words.

  140. BB - have Friday ritual of walking down with mates and getting taxi back (mile and half or so). Today did first and even did second although it was broad daylight! Usually only get taxi if dark cos walk down lonely country road but was lazy today....

  141. kizbot: "georgina explicitly said in her talk in athens and on the mod thread that the guardian doesn't want cif to be us and them... I think they saw it wasn't working that way..."

    I wrote that speech for her on various WDYWTTA threads.

    I'll go back on one condition: That THEY invite ME back (or reinstate me without my asking). Only then, would I know they were serious about "changing" and honouring my FoE.

  142. ermm.. you weren't there bill... were you?

  143. billp

    I think you are going to be a long time waiting for them to invite you back. The extent to which we, as individuals, are indispensable to CiF is about as big as the hole in the sea when we take a bucket of water out of it.

  144. kizbot, there just wouldn't be any point in my coming back without some kind of assurance that Comment (Opinion) Is Free.

    All that would happen, would be that we'd go through the same dance of deletion, periods of premod of increasing length, then banning again.

  145. Friday night. Music? Have a laugh?

    (FWIW I couldn't be bothered posting on Cif any more. No great principles about freedom of speech, no anger at my pre-mod. Just bored.)

    this is more fun

  146. are you in pre-mod now scherfig?

  147. Hey kiz. we missed you! :o)

    Nice to see you managed to have a chat with Georgina the other night. Good stuff!

  148. No, I wasn't there, kizbot. However, if the gist was that "us and them isn't working", I may have contributed to her speech.

    I posted several times that they were in danger of missing the boat on the inevitable fully pleb-interactive, online journalistic revolution. I also repeatedly called for openings to be made ATL for those below it.

    Seems like they finally woke up. Let's see. Perhaps they're only sleepwalking.


    BB, I don't expect them to invite anybody back, let alone me. That's just my condition. Since they have repeatedly deleted and premodded my posts for nothing more than being annoying and/or TRUE, and without either notice or explanation, and since they banned me for what appears to me as no good reason (I believe I have the right to peaceful protest via civil disobedience, and made no banable regular thread posts immediately prior to beimng banned), and without either notice or explanation, any other kind of gesture towards reconcilliation would appear to me as being insincere on their part.

  149. Another try at posting music links.

    On to my fave guitarists:

    Richard Thompson - if you have never seen him live, stop what you are doing *now* and book something. You will wonder where the other 3 guitarists are hiding in the wings.

    Good version (well, studio) of When the Spell is Broken: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpi0rJzQ-9g.

    love letters
    you wrote
    get pushed back down your throat
    and leave you choking

    Richard and (ex-wife) Linda

    Walking on a Wire (Linda unaccountably has wandered on stage in dressing gown): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=payivmhyrII

    From (without looking it up to make sure I'm not making an arse of myself) the album Shoot Out the Lights, as good a chronicle of a break-up as you will hear.

    Live version of 'Wall of Death' with [someone else] for Linda, but an engaging version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw1ZDzBoUf8&feature=related.

    Again, I exhort you: if you have never seen Richard Thompson live, do so. You will not regret it. The clips don't really do him justice, and artist(e)s such as Eric Clapton will name him as 'fave guitar man'.

  150. No. Not now. Did my eight days a while ago when it seemed to matter to me. God knows why. I've not posted much lately. And won't in the future.

  151. Given the apparent scope of moderation on Cif, the availability of "Abuse" buttons to the posters is entirely redundant.

    Are they saying they might miss some "abuse" if it isn't highlighled for them?

    I've often wondered though, if the mods actually operate on reports of abuse, coupled with some kind of list of "usual suspects", the posts of whom they constantly scan, and who have ended up on the list due to having been reported for abuse?

    Or is it possible that the mods (or each individual mod) read every line of every post every day?


    Perhaps someone should suggest that the plebs write the articles of the Talk Policy (to be later approved by Cif)? Surely, we all know what should be allowed and what shouldn't?

  152. Well scherfig... i think they've made some real concessions and do appear to be trying to make things a bit different.. I think that's positive. I love cif, despite its many imperfections and god knows what I'd do all day without it, especially since this site is blocked from work..
    BB It was quite a chat... a 15-20 minute frank exchange of views... next time someone else can take her on... she's a formidable woman!

  153. Carlos

    Plays summer tours at outdoors venues in N. America - and probably elsewhere; that's where I was at the time - and have been lucky enough to see him on my (early July) birthday at least once.

    Another one who has to be appreciated live.

    This is the superb recorded version of Black Magic Woman but I assure you that live is even better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymh1o09vRWE.

  154. Why do you suppose they would have kept me in premod for 4 months? I had been in it previously, for periods of a week or two (I think), interspersed with remissions of a week or two.

    But FOUR MONTHS! Surely, I should either have been banned or let out the box earlier?

    I suspected some kind of vindictiveness. Is that a reasonable suspicion?

    And there still remains the little matter of my being banned WHILE in the box.

  155. Thanks scherfig for that
    Had excellent bangladshi fish thing.

    Music? Yes. Staying up... unfortnately no.

    So... here are three for ahem, "later" listening requirements.... three for the price for one.

    Parachutes ready...




    Then this happens...


    Now, no - and I mean absolutely NO - drugs or drink you lot. OK ?

    Going offline shortly til Monday, good luck with the mod thing xxx

  156. Do you not think it might be a good idea to put those very questions to them at the new modding email bill? No need to ask for reinstatement just an explanation?

  157. kizbot, somebody claimed on the new WDYWTTA thread that you were in your early 70s.

  158. Good stuff, bitterweed. Always interesting. Feed the head, the white rabbit said. More educational stuff here in 2 hours than 2 weeks on Cif.

  159. kizbot, in a forum setting that is structured enough to include moderation, premoderation, deletions and bannings, a poster shouldn't have to ask for an explanation.

    That no explanations have been forthcoming has been part of the us and them policy. I would do nothing to help genuinely restructure that policy by allowing them to "answer my queries" at THEIR damage-control session.

    To sincerely break an us and them atmosphere of YOUR making, YOU have to make adequate gestures of reconcilliation and desire to change. Not "them".

  160. dierobdie
    Nice, always liked that song... good stuff


    That was great. And are you kidding ? Seen Thompson loads since i was 16... in a class of his own.

    So sad, so fucking angry, so fucking good


  161. "IT would do nothing..."

  162. scherfig
    ha ha, and yet SUCH reprobates doing it


  163. billp - I think that was scherfig (although I might just be attributing everything bad to him today) - and I think Kiz responded appropriately.

  164. Nah it was yeractual... and i'm 45... for but a few days more...

  165. I missed the response. I've been marvelling at how spry she seemed. Well, now thge truth's out, kizbot, YER NOT THAT SPRY!

    Meanwhile... back at the Guardian Front Page. Main Headline:

    "Police called to Commons to hunt MPs' expenses mole"

    My "ID card introduction to be speeded up" wasn't that far off.

    Adjectives fail me.

  166. I don't think I'm that bad considering the substance abuse issues... :-)

  167. So thauma, where did you get hold of Me'Shell NdegéOcello ?

    Like it.

  168. thauma - 'I think that was scherfig (although I might just be attributing everything bad to him today)'

    Steady on, t, what the fuck did I ever do to you? Not guilty again (although it sounds like me). Rule of thumb -if you read it on Cif, it probably wasn't me. Take this:

    wish I could be like BiteTheHandIf the lyrics fit...

  169. blimey, did anyone see have i got news for you last week? with alan johnson. I just started watching it on you tube and its incredible. What is he on?



  170. Bitterweed - re: RT: and yet so witty and humane too.

    How about some John Renbourn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFGRnUzfOEI. Saw the two of them in some sort of Pentangle incarnation a few years ago - amazing - Jacqui looked quite a bit different from this vid! Was looking for something from a solo album I have of his which features Jacqui on some tracks but a quick search turned nothing up.

  171. And while we're feeling folksy and sorry for ourselves, a little Steeleye Span:

  172. Cif Mod thread...

    "I hope you'll agree that the talk policy is clearer and more direct. It boils down to what we've always tried to say: help make Cif a welcoming, intelligent place for discussion; take some responsibility for the quality of this community; don't be abusive; don't be offensive; don't be unpleasant; keep on topic.

    Don't be unpleasant? Oh, the policy is all as clear as day now.

    I was probably deleted, premodded and banned for being unpleasant.

  173. thaumaturge
    Like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTZSmuiIHPs

    Got to go now, up at fuckkwit o'clock to drive to the west country for the weekend...

    Night all.

  174. kizbot, you're not bad, you just aren't relatively spry.

    Don't worry about it, though. You have to be over 70 to qualify for any kind of spryhood.

    The pensioner the police just shot in Sussex is as spry as he used to be either.

  175. Don't be offensive. I spent many a long hour trying to convince people that offence is in the eye of the beholder. Apparently, Cif wasn't listening.

    How can I know what's offensive to you, and/or each of the hundreds of individual CIf posters and writers?

    One big weasel-worded piece of bollocks disguised as a notice of "new" talk policy.

    Basically, all it says is "We continue to reserve the right to censor you as wee see fit. If you don't like it, sod off."

    Unpleasant? Can we expect a New Labour law to follow. "You are charged with three counts of being unpleasant to people..."

    Or, could that be a typo for "unpeasant"?

  176. kiz - have round-number birthday coming up myself this year - but not as old as you ... :-P

    Bitterweed - got hold of Me'Shell at WDET public radio in Detroit - used to be a superb music station, but they hired a new manager guy a couple of years ago and fired all the great DJs and replaced them with National Public Radio talking head syndicated programmes. Damned shame. I think they still have some original music progs streaming in the middle of the night (early morning our time) but haven't checked for a while. I think Martin Bandyke was the DJ who was responsible originally and I expect you could find him somewhere via Google. Brilliant he was. Played all sorts of eclectic music.

  177. I think bill.. and there's always a chance I'm wrong.. that they're talking about the play the ball not the man thing.. and not getting nasty to 'people'... now I've not had that many encounters with you and to be honest, though i find you sarky, I've never found you abusive... With Woolly, I did get really cross with him once for the way he had a go at brusselsexpat, he was, in my opinion, out of order... But i tend to be of the delete the post not the poster mentality myself...

  178. thauma- I've found the older you get, the more you like it... Can't wait to get full on hag status!

  179. kiz, here's someone else who 'had a go' at brusselsexpats, yesterday on this thread. No censorship here, we all stand by what we say, right? This from billp yesterday:

    Brusselsexpats wrote:

    "This is my final response to you..."

    Can you be sure of that? If so, why?

    "I'm not keeping up with the Joneses..."

    Boy, I think I'm getting too good at this finding sore spots, for my own good. I was just joking, too.

    "...and I do realise you have always had an issue with women who exist for other things than to service men's needs but hard luck."

    The only issue I have had with any woman are turning out really well. Intelligent, and good-looking, too.

    "You're posting on a European site and have to accept the fact that the powerful executive type of woman does actually exist here. And that's not going to change because it upsets you."

    First, this is not a "European site", it's an Internet site. The administrator and founder is an American. That the preponderance of posters are European plays no part, and will play no part in what I express here.

    Where do you get this stuff from? The "powerful executive type of woman"? Only exists in Europe? I know you didn't actually write that, but you sound like that's what you were saying.

    Where do you get that their existence, in Europe or anywhere else, upsets me? And why should that upset me? What do strange (unmet) women have to do with me?

    "And as for name-dropping - I have a whole list in my repertory that would have you in psychological meltdown but I've never mentioned them."

    Nice that you're all into stage-acting. That probably helps to relieve the stress of being powerful executives. Again, it was just a joke. I'm guessing your present amateur production isn't a comedy.

    "I only talked about Amy Fawcett because this is a private site not CiF."

    So, why did you feel the need to tell me how you know her? What do I care how you know here? Name-dropping by any other name...

    "I was also politely responding to what I thought was a question on your part. It won't happen again."

    I get the feeling you've been dying to broadcast that you know this Amy personally. I also get the feeling that you like telling people you're a powerful executive. For all I know you're a slatternly housewife who enjoys watching afternoon TV game shows in her night clothes. In fact, that's how I'm going to picture you from now on. Curlers and fag, too.

    I really enjoyed seeing a polite, pleasant woman getting subjected to that, what do you think? I don't know what bru thinks about it, she hasn't been back since.

  180. Offence is in the eye of the beholder. Agreed. But if every beholder can see that somoeone is being offensive for the sake of being offensive, then the question is no longer a philosophical one.

    Unpleasant? Yep, that too.

    A twat? Tick.

    You really do have a lot of issues don't you?

    You'll be hugging yourself as you read this, reaching a climax as you tell yourself over and over again that we miss you, we love you, oh yeh big bill we really love you, tell us again big bill how much we need you, and only you, big bill.

    You're a fucking clown.

    Sad thing is you posted something the other day about how you were superior to some of us because you had real people to talk to.

    I doubt that, tbh. But if you do have a family, send them my sympathies.

    Must be hell living with a nasty piece of work like you.

  181. Hi.

    Just been on the mod thread...
    Is it just me or is it the same old shit in a different box?

    Nothings changed, has it?

  182. Wow, billp's gonna be sucking his own dick tonight. We've all responded to the attention-seeking sociopath.


  183. Yeah, hank, if bru responds and tells him he upset her, he disappear in one big orgasm and there'll be nothing left but a stain in his bedsit. Cue laughable rant from superintelligent billp 3,2,1 ....

  184. Bitterweed - superb selection - love Latin music - didn't recognise Ms. Baez until she started singing!

    kiz - agreed, life just seems to be getting better all the time.

    And Woolly seriously pissed me off not too long ago by calling me a bad driver (biking thread) but you came to my defence and thanks for that. Still and all, don't want to see him banned as he had some interesting opinions despite being a lycra-clad terrorist....

  185. And I still say we don't go for a modding policy on here btw. Bill remains the only irritant, and he's best ignored.

    I might change my view if the blog gets ruined as bill brings his mates over. But that presupposes that bill has any mates.

    I think we'll be ok.

  186. Hank - lol.

    Off to bed now, all - sweet dreams!

  187. I haven't had time to read all the threads since i came on tonight.. loads has happened on here since i was last on on tuesday night... I've no idea why anyone would get in a strop with bru... she's as funny as fuck for one thing... I do know, though, that I'm a bit sick of abusive oneupmanship... sometimes I can really really see where it comes from... and I've had a fair few goes at people myself from time to time... but am having a bit of trouble with coping with all out nasty jibes on a regular basis... a bit of pisstaking? well up for it! it's often fun... but abusive pointscoring does sicken me a wee bit...

  188. class comment from yeractual..


    MrPikeBishop writes above the line as Ally Fogg.'
    made me laugh....

  189. 'Ultima's not been taking her meds'

    Ouch. Below the belt, remember some of us DO have to take meds to stay sane.

    As a matter of fact I rather went off on one about a year ago (stopped taking the meds) and did post when I was unwell. I'm not sure anyone else noticed luckily, but I would have been mortified if people had and I wouldn't have come back with the same name.

  190. kiz, I suggest you read the threads here before you say any more, and that's just a bit of friendly advice. We're not talking about pisstaking here, it's rather more like mental illness.

  191. I'll take your word for it scherfig coz way too tired to do any sustained reading...
    yep biskie... I think that comment is not on... Lord knows, she's driven me potty but I just don't see the point in that kind of comment

  192. "kiz, I suggest you read the threads here before you say any more,"

    Oh dear, i'm gonna be in for another telling off here...

  193. Agree with kiz, biskie. No place for that here.
    Try this to lighten the mood (song title a bit ironic in many ways) :o)

    crazy dreams