07 May 2009

Daily Chat 07/05/09

Time for a new thread, I think. As always, no particular topic, but I note that both Eva Peron and Gary Cooper have birthdays today. I wonder what sort of movies they could have made together?


  1. Apologies for my rowing on the last thread folks, i will try to ignore billp from now on to avoid a repeat.

  2. Yeah, we've seen High Noon now, how about a musical next?

  3. I make no apology for civilly debating an issue on an online forum.

  4. And I don't plan to ignore anybody. I expect to read all input, and comment on those parts of it that inspire me to do so.

  5. A musical would be good. I suggest Underworld do the soundtrack.

    "Shouting censor censor censor censor
    "Shouting censor censor censor censor
    "Shouting mega-mega mod thing
    "Mega-mega mod thing
    "Mega-mega mod thing"

    I can hear it already! :o)

  6. billp

    I don't ever ignore posters, but I do gloss over posts that don't interest me.

    Can't say fairer than that really, eh?

  7. BB - you never fail to surprise me - an Underworld musical? Who'd have thought you'd have suggested that? It might have them dancing in the aisles in Rostock, but Mamma Mia it's not!

  8. BeautifulBurnout, we are all free to gloss over. I gloss over all that fireside chat club stuff, for example. I have access to real life humans for that kind of thing. I realise though, that not all do.

  9. Changed my vote to FOR a threaded board.

  10. Montana

    Following my drunken exchange with you and scherfig on Sunday about Irish immigration and so on, thought this Onion piece might give you a laugh.


    On the subject of Gary Cooper, has anyone seen the Sopranos episode: "The strong silent type"? Absolute genius.

  11. F@ck me this didn't take long.

  12. staybryte
    talking of Irish immigration, you been watching The Wire ? McNulty rocks !

  13. Hah! Dissing teh Underworld is akin to dissing teh Tezza for MH. I will hunt you down and cut one leg off all your trousers....

  14. Musicals ?

    I once proposed "Goodfellas - the Musical".

    Killer scene: A chrous line sings in - quick-time

    "What's so fucking funny!”
    “Funny fucking how?”
    “Do I amuse you ?”
    “Like a fucking clown over here”

    While Joe Pesci (Timmy Mallet) tap dances, and shoots passing waiter

  15. Sorry scherfig, just noticed you, not Montana, posted this thread. The Onion link might give you a giggle anyway.

    Bitterweed, no I haven't yet. No real reason, just haven't sat down and got into it. Had mixed reports from people who have. What do you reckon?

    I used to really like "The Shield". Is there any comparison?

  16. Timmy Mallet as Joe Pesci as Tommy?

    Dat's so crazy it might just woik...

  17. been meaning to catch the wire - but its on so flippin late!

    Staybright ????????????????

    Delightfully politically incorrect though!

  18. Annetan

    It's meant as a parody of a stereotype, which should make sense if you're familiar with theonion's content. If not, think a US Daily Mash.

  19. Could never figure out why Darren Emerson left Underworld. He said he wanted to do his own thing...which sounded exactly like Underworld? His Underwater label is pretty good though.

    Is that Underworld/Tomato offshoot still going BB? The only thing of note, I can remember it doing, was the Rez vid.


  20. Mcnulty's English!! So is Stringer Bell actually (never woulda guessed). Gotta love the wire, i only just started season 3 though so no spoilers...

  21. Mendoza

    Yeah, Darren E kind of lost it really after leaving, imo. No-one really knows what brought that about other than "artistic differences". I saw him a couple of times at The End two or three years ago, but have to confess at leaving before the end of his set on the second occasion as it just all seemed so derivative and stuck in the 90s, really.

    Ah well.

    Tomato are still going strong, yeah. The Last Big Thing they did was the title shots for the locations in Quantum of Solace - linky here: http://www.tomato.co.uk/#quantum-of-solace-2

  22. staybryte
    Somewhere in between that and maybe Prime Suspect.. in as much as its writer looks at the deviousness and the corruption operating accross all public institutions, as well as how criminal organisations interract with eachother and the city economy.

    It unfolds more like a novel, there is shit loads of scheming and people behaving appalling ly, but there are hardly any shoot-outs.

    No need. It's effing gripping.

    Series two started this week on terrestrial (the whole thing's already run on Murdoch)I am truly hooked.

    Anyways, talk later, got shedloads to do today, ha ha !


  23. Jay
    English - no shit ! Talk later

  24. Dear oh deary me. There is a thread on CiF by John Bolton.

    I need to count to 10 and think happy thoughts before I post... otherwise I will be in premod too.

  25. Shame about Underworld really, they haven't left much of legacy to speak of unless you count Faithless..


    Oh do f**k off!

    I think McNulty is a Sheffield lad and related to Patrick Stewart..although my mate heard him speak in the plummiest accent ever and she was quite distraught by it.


  26. I heard McNulty was an Eton boy. But i more shocked by Stringer Bell being English, i couldnt believe it.

    John Bolton is writing on the Guardian? That man is right up there with the most unpleasant men on the planet, im glad im banned for this one. Whats the betting on someone biting the dust for this Bolton article?

  27. No. Stop it you lot

    jimmy McNulty is an Irish American He iscanny and tenacious with a disdain for authority and frequent problems involving alimony, alcoholism, child support, relationships, and money.

    Of course he's a f@cking paddy.

  28. Mendoza

    Well, Underworld have changed a lot in recent years. They have been doing film soundtracks and the like, have produce three ambient download-only EPs, and still manage to sell out gigs wherever they go. I'd say that's not too bad for a coupla 50 yr old geezers really.

    I will cut both legs off your trousers and dye your underwear pink too if you're not careful ;)

  29. jay - re Bolton

    I have been remarkably restrained, considering the screaming I do at the telly if ever he is on.

  30. Watch it there, Bitterweed, or you will feel the wrath of the Irish.

    Am very strongly tempted to post "John Bolton is a JayReilly" on the c*nt's thread.

  31. Nice post on there, Mendoza :D

  32. Thauma - you'll upset Ultima with such language. The man is a really unpleasant individual, easily the most sinister of the Bush regime.

  33. " The Standard has much to be sorry for"

    "Simon Fletcher: After years of ignoring London's diversity and vibrancy, the Evening Standard's apology to readers is a positive step forward"

    Quick poll - is capital punishment acceptable for the crime of using the words "vibrancy and diversity" in the above context?

  34. "The place to do any investigation is within the US constitutional and justice system."

    Mmm, yes, and we'll tell that to little tinpot warlords in Africa too - "No no, sire, you carry on, whats a few million people anyway, im sure if you are doing anything untoward then your domestic judiciary will of course put an end to it..."

    I dont know what these clowns think international law is, but i have seen this attitude mirrored by many Americans on CIF - how dare anyone question the legality of the wars, it was legal in the US and thats all that matters... severe hyperpower hubris syndrome.

  35. Oh god, the more i read the more upsetting it is. For those of you still with posting rights, please tear this locust to pieces.

  36. This guy drives me nuts, Jay. And he is a bad-tempered little fucker too when he is crossed. A real spoilt brat spitting the dummy.

    One of my favourite bits of youtube pwnage was when he was given the slap-down on Newsnight by Paxo. Right little hissy-fit it was:


  37. argh. that wasn't the hissy fit one... hang on, will find it.

  38. I cant watch that till i get home, but the thought of Paxo slapping him down is actually pretty exciting, he really is a completely abhorrent man. I wm watching this as soon as i get home, if anyone else has anything on similar lines please do share.

    Good comments BB and Thaum, good work indeed...

    Wheres monkeyfish been lately?

  39. The man sends chills down my spine, but - more sinister than Cheney???

    I wouldn't want to upset Ultima, so I've posted the most restrained (like BB) refutal that I possibly could. Fingers are still twitching from the effort of not telling the slime what I really think of him. Not that I expect he'll be reading it.

  40. "John Bolton - a real See You Next Tuesday..."

    Well said, that JoeMorgan! Took me a couple secs to work it out....

  41. Hmph - can't find it now. Never mind, it will turn up

  42. What happened to gingerwaster ? Anyone ? Bit of a wind-up merchant... but he was a tenacious f@cker and would definitely have been on the Bolton thread. Think he lived in France.

  43. Im not sure if he's a match for Cheney, particularly Cheney in his wheelchair, that is real nasty stuff. But he is exceptionally unpleasant, aggressive and amoral. He's a fascist.

    I will search for the Paxo slap when i get back, i am desperate to see it.

  44. He's an outright sociopath.

  45. "Quick poll - is capital punishment acceptable for the crime of using the words "vibrancy and diversity" in the above context?"

    Hell, yeah.

    Patronising nonsense. I've lived in London all my life and to most people in my position it doesn't seem vibrant or diverse, it just seems like London. Observations such as the above are for tourists and politicians.

  46. I should add though, that for once Fletcher has a point. The Standard has become a pretty grim rag over the last ten years or so. My dad worked for them since he could ride a pushbike until he retired and both my brothers still do, so as it's fed the Summerisle family for years I hate to criticise it, but it's a pretty dreadful read for most of the reasons Fletcher states.

  47. I've been in this hole of a city for 5 years and this talk of Vibrancy is indeed pathetic, its just a big, antisocial casino with awful traffic and shitty transport, and knifings.

  48. gingerwaster07 May, 2009 15:40


    The tenacious ginger fuc@er ;-) is still around, just busy trying to get his work-life back on kilter, after a couple of years as a dole-scrounger, when I had time to blog on CIF. I do pop in from time to time - during the Gaza invasion and also yesterday on two Afghan threads, but I can't do it regularly.

    John Bolton is a joke. He's yesterday's news - the neocon/christian right/zionist/energy&arms raft of the Medusa is a shipwreck. Today, it's the "left-wing" neocons, newlabs, democrats and other spokesmen of the "advanced" or post-industrial corporate lobby that have their hands on the steering wheel.

  49. jay - the link i put on here is the Paxo slap-down of bolton. It just isn't the hissy-fit one I was looking for, which I think was from the beeb coverage of the US Election. That is on the intarwebz too and worth a watch.

  50. Nah I love Underworld!
    They're part of the holy trinity..Orbital, Underworld and Leftfield.
    But...in fairness all of them haven't aged that well.
    The only one, from back in t'day, who still has artistic cred is Andy Weatherall.


  51. Yeah, Weatherall is good. Did you know Orbital have reformed, btw? I was at their farewell gig in Brixton in 04 - doesn't seem like 5 minutes ago. Silly buggers. I guess they have run out of money :D

  52. gingerwaster
    Hah, hah, good stuff. Glad to hear you're doing ok...

  53. "But...in fairness all of them haven't aged that well."

    I thought Underworld's last album had some (dirty) epic moments. The last track ('Best Mambo Ever' iirc) was awesome.

    Orbital together again is good news. Anything has to be better than the cheesefest that was Paul Hartnoll's Ideal Condition.

    From the same era, the new FSOL album is stunning, if you like your hippy techno at the ambient end of the spectrum.

    But if you want to catch up with the natural heir to your holy Trinity, check out Jon Hopkins's new album 'Insides'. Mostly sublime melodic electronica with a few random breakbeats thrown in that are hard enough to break the teeth in your head. It's been soundtracking my week just perfectly.

  54. Whoa! just read jay and bills 'conversation'. But i think thats the whole point and attraction of this place (though i admit i only found it a few days ago) of this place. At cif you couldnt have that conversation. The moderation would prevent it. Here the is nothing (I think).As I said before it is much more like being in a pub here and its a good thing. Bill and Jay know each other, wound each other up, maybe they were even drunk! But sure enough they will go back to agreeing with each other about something else. And it is fun for everyone else to sit in the corner and watch the argument.

    As for something to talk about...

    What do you lot think about all this new world order stuff? I used to think it was all rubbish but having done some research over the last few months now im not so sure. There is definitely something wierd going on. But what?

    Is anyone else at all interested in this? Ive been reading CiF everyday(ish) for well over a year and Ive never seen an serious article discussing it. Most mention of it gets slapped down pretty quick by other posters.

  55. ally - best mamgu ever is beautiful. i love that whole album (obviously) but they have moved along far more than a lot of people from that peer group, imo.

    (bit of a fangirl i'm afraid)

  56. dierobdie

    I have just started reading Vince Cable's book The Storm, and it is really good so far (only a couple of chapters in). But he quoted Marx in the intro, and when I read it, it made me shiver:

    "Owners of capital will stimulate the working class to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and mechanical products, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until their debt becomes unbearable. The unpaid debt will lead to bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalised, and the State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to communism."

    Marx wrote that a century and a half ago... spooky, eh?

  57. Thauma


    Tony Benn slaps down Bolton, its right at the end but the whole thing is worth watching, good old Tony...

  58. Ta, Jay, will have to watch when I get home! Am in middle of horrible systems upgrade & don't have sound card on work puter.

  59. "dierobdie" - new world order

    You should do an article on it and post it here, if you fancy it, i'd certainly be interested.

  60. I'm sure this one won't be up for long:

    07 May 09, 5:11pm (8 minutes ago)
    LMFAO. John Bolton uber-fascist complains about this?

    Fuck right off you right-wing piece of nazi shit. And shave that fucking stupid moustache off you twat. You look ridiculous and no REAL man needs to prove he is a man by growing one.

    Fucking yank piece of shit.

    And hey, believe me, this is the politest version I could type into here. I'd love to meet you and kick the royal fuck out of your nazi head. C**t.

  61. Its a beaut, i prefer it to Paxo's effort actually. Though i cant quite believe Bolton is involved in politics, he is so overtly vile, he has no tact, no subtlety, he's just a despicable human being and quite openly says that the only thing America gives a shit about is Americas national interests.

  62. dierobdie

    I'm undecided. For every well evidenced and coherent article I read about the NWO there are 10 others bringing up alien lizards, the Elders of Zion or the Freemasons. The Bilderbergers seem real enough but just how much influence they really wield, I'm not sure. I think they're probably just like an upmarket masonic lodge who like to collect up and coming politicos to boost their self importance.

    Like I say, I'm undecided. It's something the Left seems to steer away from since the majority of the conspiracy theories seem to emanate from right wing nutters and anyone from the Left indulging in speculation is too wary of guilt by association. That said, I find it inconceivable that the enormously wealthy don't get together to form cartels and associations to further their sordid ends; whether this amounts to a New World Order, I'm not sure.

    However, the clincher for me is that David Icke believes in it. This kinda makes me feel a bit of a dick for even thinking about it.

  63. BB. Very interesting. Do you mean that there is in fact, no NWO, no conspiracy theories, its not being stage managed and that Marx was right all along? And that we are about to enter a new era of pure Marxist communism where the state will wither away and the proletariat shall inherit the earth?! I bloody well hope so! Dont know if thats what you meant but thats what it made me think and I never looked at it quite like that before. Cheers!

  64. HuntKillBuryFin - what an absolute diamond. The fact that there's even the faintest chance that Bolton will read that is magnificent. He is worse than Cheney, definitely, he's a full on fascist.

  65. BB - way back in 1994, me and my better half originally bonded (and that's not a euphemism) over Dubnobass... and Cowgirl in particular.

    So Karl & Co will always have a special place in my heart!

  66. thaum - yeah, that Tony Benn one is excellent. I <3 Tony Benn. Proper politician. None of your namby-pamby spinning rubbish from him.

    monkeyfish - hang on, let me get me tinfoil hat on before I post this, just in case... but...

    I have often wondered the extent to which governments will deliberately seed disinformation around that subject that is so loony-toons that anyone going near the subject will be tarred by the same brush, and thus discredited. Good way to keep the noise down, isn't it?

  67. dierobdie
    Yes, do an article, would be interested to see yr ideas. Haven't there always been "nodes of power" ?

    That was splendid....

  68. NWO? Just read 'The Illuminatus! Trilogy' by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson (1975). It'll tell you everything you ever needed to know.

    Just remember to smoke as much dope when you read it as those guys did when they wrote it. :o) And it's all true!

  69. Ally

    Hahah! Cowgirl was the first UW choon I heard too, in early 94. I was living in France at the time and my sis sent it to me on a mix-tape, and I was hooked. I grew up for a bit and stopped doing the gigs and festivals while my boy was younger, but got back into it all again in 03, in 04 and 05 I followed them half way round Europe (met Karl and Darren Price in a hotel in Tilburg too - lovely ordinary bloke, just as you would imagine.)

    For ultimate UW fanboy geekiness, you can always look in on darktrain.org -


    I'm a mod there but I don't ban people for calling Bliar a c*nt - honest. :D

  70. dierobdie

    Re the proles inheriting the earth. I have no idea. It is all too weird though. Marx isn't exactly Nostradamus is he?

    I have to say I bloody hope so too, because they way things are going the alternatives are more of the same, and an even greater rich/poor divide. God knows where that will lead.

  71. HuntKillBuryFinn- well said that man!
    And yes, dierobdie, The New World Order aka The Bilderburg Group which includes Summers, Bernanke, Geithner, Paulson and all the other banksters (who seem to have Obama by the balls) plus the Clintons plus Blair plus Prince Phillip etc etc are definitely worth discussing. Anyway infowars has a lot of stuff on them- Alex Jones has been following them for years and has published their guest lists. Very sinister indeed...

  72. Well alright, Ill see what I can do. I think its all very interesting. History, as we know it (and we dont know the half), is chockfull of the most powerful people engaging in subterfuge, double dealing, backstabbing, murder, pillage, and unbridled lust for domination of the world and everyone in it. I am mystified as to how anyone can believe that the people who have actively sought and gained great power in the modern age can be assumed to have lost this trait. I suppose the question is not are there conspiracys but how deep and far do they go? Is it, at one end of the scale, all just to get a little bit of extra cash in the Swiss bank account and a trust fund for the grandkids or is it shape shifting reptiles from another dimension?

    Tin foil hats on standby.

    Though I have heard this is disinformation and the tin foil acts as an amplifier, frying your brain from the 'signals'.

  73. Agreed, Illuminatus Trilogy is a great book- haven't read it since the 70s when it didn't make a lot of sense- I should read it again...
    Anyone seen The Obama Deception?
    Or Zeitgeist?
    BTW, one of the aims of the NWO is to reduce the world's population by 80%...

  74. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/07/cp-snow

    Quite an interesting CIF article i thought...

    I swear the cif team are spiting me, knowing i cant comment they ahve had Bindel with a makeover, then today that subhuman Bolton, tomorrow it will probably be Bidisha on the misogyny of Johnny Wilkinson...

  75. dan, i was going to metion Alex Jones. I been listening to his radio show for a while and although he is a shouty Texan if you get past that and actually listen to what he is saying rather that how he is saying it, if even half of what he is talking about is true it is shit your fucking pants scary.

    I like his style, I think hes at times hilarious (both intentionally and unintentionally) but I can really see how it would put a lot of people off. Its still brown trousers time though. His site, infowars.com is well worth a look.

  76. Dan, I see you are on board!

  77. Or, alternatively, onboard.

  78. Yes, on board indeed, dierobdie. I'm afraid we might attract flak by mentioning Alex Jones. He is the ultimate patriotic American as far as I am concerned but I know a lot of people think he's barking. I'd be very interested to know what the others think of him. My wife can't stand him because he is a shouty Texan.
    Is it my imagination or does the room go quiet when I mention 911 being an inside job? My comments to that effect were always being censored on Cif. I can't believe journalists are so chicken shit that they ignore all the evidence, particularly about the thermite...

  79. Jay Reilly

    Yeah not bad but this

    #Science and the humanities are no longer enemies.#

    surprised me. It's like Sokal never happened. His statement might be true if you discount the postmodern faction of the humanities. This is worth a read:


    and this, for anyone who hasn't heard about the 'hoax'.


    Butterflies and wheels is spot on for this kinda thing. It does postmodernism so well. I'm sure I read Bitterweed recommending once or twice. They have a bit of an Islamic obsession. Nothing like Harry's Place but they might seriously think about toning it down a bit. However, on the Sciences/ Humanities thing some of the past articles give the lie to

    "Science and the humanities are no longer enemies"

  80. Dan

    9/11 is one of those untouchable subjects like the Kennedy assassination, I guess. There are all kinds of academics, scientists, pilots etc who are convinced the official story just doesn't ring true either.

  81. dan, for me the thing that really raises question about 911 is wtc7. THAT really looks wrong and is not even mentioned in the 911 commision report. Maybe the other stuff I could just concievably buy if I really, really tried but wtc7 just does not compute.

  82. cheers monkeyfish, i'll have a read of it now i think.

  83. "check out Jon Hopkins's new album 'Insides'."

    Will do, never heard of him before.

    Is it the FSOL/Amorphous-Androgynous album you're on about?
    I heard a mix under that name a while back and it's a great one for late night gatherings, lot like the kinda stuff Andy Votel plays but I do love the early fractured sound they had...I feel like the only person who likes Dead Cities and Cobain was posioned when he made that!

    Quite like listening to B'More/Ghetto Tech stuff recently..big, bouncy and dumb; it reminds me of a over-grown labrador pup..bounding around trying shag everything.


  84. Mendoza - no, the Amorphous Androgynous stuff is an assortment of remixes and off-the-wall oddities that have been floating about for ages.

    I'm talking about Environments II... which is much more like the early FSOL soundscape work.

    Jon Hopkins is definitely worth checking. He's been around a while now but is still stupidly young and stupidly talented. He put his solo work on hold for a couple of years because Brian Eno dragged him in to co-produce the last Coldplay album, but please don't hold that against him.

    If you can cope with the horrors of the MySpace music player, you'll find a selection here

  85. Hello Montana, - just wanted to introduce myself, and thank you for the hospitality of your open-door blog. Nice one.

    Have nothing much to offer at the present, other than a desire to keep contact with lost souls and desperados.

    Best to all.

  86. Oh, and Dead Cities is hard work if you're not in the mood, but We Are Explosive doth still verily kick huge arse! The album still gets played from time to time round these parts.

  87. coldplay *shudders*

    I can't remember who it was that wrote "My mind went blank for a couple of minutes - then I realised I was thinking about a Coldplay song" :)

    I will have a poke about for some Jon Hopkins as he comes so highly recommended

  88. Have just watched both Bolton vids - good stuff! In a frightening sort of way. Benn rocks.

    BB - lol at the Coldplay witticism!

  89. Hi everyone:

    Just got in from a hard day’s whatever, and read all that’s been posted since last night – maybe comment later

    I am going to have to limit my contributions this evening as I’ve got things to do and, eventually, sleep to catch up on

    If I’m still here at 10.00, warn me I’m about to turn into a pumpkin

    So I’m just going to “lurk”. I for one have never heard that before, but I’m relatively new to this blogging/posting business. Maybe it’s a well known concept that’s been around for decades, like Political Lesbianism.

    I’ll try to comment occasionally if I can.

    Hi Yeractual: you’re welcome to join this merry band.

    Might get a bit shouty later, if last night was anything to go by, but don’t worry; we’re all good fun really.

  90. andysays - you've just given me a good laugh, thanks! Do you think political lesbians lurk on hetero pr0n sites?

  91. yeractual, welcome to the boards, please take no notice of the recent 'incident', the place is usually very harmonious...

  92. Yeractual, did you address a post to Woolly on the WDYWTTA thread today? What was that about?

  93. thaumaturge: so I’m the evening’s entertainment two nights in a row – that’s fucking great.

    In answer to your question: after a bad experience discussing Pol.Les. recently, it’s a subject I’d rather avoid. My own fault for bringing it up.

    Glad you’re here actually. Do you still want an explanation of how I made an arse of myself last night? I hope you’ve worked it all out by now, so I don’t have to re-live it.

    Slightly personal question; feel free to bat it away: does your name have any significance? To me it seems an (almost) random collection of letters with no meaning; I’m not even sure how to pronounce it.

    Everyone: Coincidentally, there’s a rather interesting suggestion on WDYWTTA for a discussion on how posters choose their names, with special interest in musical references. Don’t recognise the poster’s own name, but the post itself is worth a look. It was made yesterday at 6.18pm, and someone called BeautifulBurnout responded to it almost straight away.

    Someone apparently didn’t like the comments the same poster made on the same thread at 3.54 and 3.57 though, because they’ve been removed. Can’t imagine why.

    Finally, for now, I see Yeractual’s comment one hour later was also removed. Again, can’t imagine why!

  94. Hi Yeractual! Glad you could join us- thanks for your really nice comment on my strip- it's my first comment and hopefully not my last. (It's a bit like taking your clothes off in public...)
    I'd welcome ANY reaction, guys, as long as you don't call me a cunt or I'll moderate your arse.
    Anyway, check out my strip: Depression, A Beginner's Guide on danpearcecomix.com
    It's only been up a couple of weeks and I need to get some links going but I'm a bit of a novice at all this...

  95. Andysays - I wasn't laughing at you, I was laughing with you, honest! Thought your comment was funny.

    'Thaumaturge' is an actual word - it means 'magician'. I've no idea why I picked it - it was the first word that came into my head (for some strange reason) when I was creating an ID some time ago. It doesn't hold any particular significance to me, nor do I think myself a miracle-worker!

  96. Oh, and no - I never did understand that conversation yesterday. But that could be strongly related to the amount of wine I was drinking.

  97. dan: I want to check your strip out when I can, though not sure when that will be.

    it's a subject I have a personal interest in, shall we say.

    Can't be any worse than "Prozac Nation", or I hope not. That reminds me or Wurtzel's piece on Cif a few months ago. Anyone remember that.

    Late breaking news: someone called Jay has just posted an ATL article on CiF.

    What a sellout you are Reilly, you'd sell your own mother to get back there, wouldn't you? ;-)

  98. God, he's a bloody weasel, Woolas.

    I swear he is going to get a good kicking if I ever see him.


  99. Billplasterer

    This is my final response to you - yes we got our wires crossed - I usually do when I communicate with you. I'm not keeping up with the Joneses and I do realise you have always had an issue with women who exist for other things than to service men's needs but hard luck. You're posting on a European site and have to accept the fact that the powerful executive type of woman does actually exist here. And that's not going to change because it upsets you.

    And as for name-dropping - I have a whole list in my repertory that would have you in psychological meltdown but I've never mentioned them. I only talked about Amy Fawcett because this is a private site not CiF. I was also politely responding to what I thought was a question on your part. It won't happen again.


    Scherfig - I think I got the sign-in right this time - thanks for the tip.

    Kizbot: where are you.....(ghostly voice travelling through space).

  100. The delectable Mr. Thaumaturge will shortly be arriving chez moi so forgive me if I suddenly disappear....

  101. Anyone else heard vernon coker on today? Talking about the DNA database. Unbelievable.

  102. Yeah - where is kizbot? I spotted her briefly today on Cif.

    Oh, and the rest of it was good too, Brusselsexpat!

  103. dierobdie

    Yes, I had the displeasure of listening to Coaker on R4 this morning. Another shouting at the radio moment in the Burnout household. How many times did he say that innocent people "go on to commit further offences"? He just didn't get it when Humphrys was pointing it out to him in plain language that they hadn't committed any offences in the first place, so how could they commit further ones... clearly as thick as shit that one as well.

  104. BB that is the scary bit. He just didnt pick up on what Humphreys was saying. It just didnt occour to him. Frightening.

  105. Brusselsexpats: Or can I call you Bru?

    You go girl!

    Haven’t said hi before, so “Hi”.

    I’ve read your stuff on Cif with interest over the past six months, don’t think I’ve ever commented, so I’ll sum up now:

    Agree with much, disagree with less, don’t understand some (opera’s not my thing). But always witty, well argued and worth reading.

    Glad to see/hear you got your mojo working.

    thaumaturge: “What do you mean funny, funny how... ...do you mean I’m a clown?” I think that’s the quote, but I can’t quite remember.

    Thanks for answering my question, here’s another.

    If your name is a real word, why doesn’t my spell check recognise it?

    Actually I can answer that myself: because it’s shit. I’ve added you to my dictionary now though, so everything’s cool.

    Interestingly, or maybe not, it also doesn’t recognise "mojo".

    Never heard of Jeff Buckley, then.

    Hm, maybe that’s my next CD.

    Back after Hallelujah

  106. Dierobdie- yeah, it was WT7 which first alerted me to the whole 911 thing. And then it was seeing those squibs going off on the videos as the towers fell. Until then I was one of the 'don't be ridiculous' guys. But it is truly horrifying- I had trouble sleeping after that. It really haunted me. Several people have said I should do a comic strip about it to help me get it out of my system but actually I'm OK with it it now- I've come to accept that there are truly evil and powerful people out there who really don't give a shit about mass murder as long as their political objectives are reached. And in that case it meant the American people gave the green light to the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan- because of the biggest lie ever. I mean, can you think of a bigger one?

  107. Come on, andysays, spellchecks are shit- mine wants me to put zeds in instead of esses. (maybe cos it's set for US spelling?) Thaumaturge is correct but I guess you know that by now.
    You can keep your Jeff Buckley- don't waste your money. Droopy hippy stuff as far as I'm concerned.
    But having said that, it's streets ahead of Queen which was being praised by some geezer with a tin ear on a recent thread. My wife likes them, though. Also Meatloaf, Abba and Cher. Can you believe it? I LIVE with the woman...

  108. thaumaturge/thaumaturgy - found loads of places from James Joyce's 'Ulysses' to Terry Pratchett's 'Discworld'. It's magic, mate!

  109. dan, yeah ive had some bad dreams too! Like I said, that alex jones show makes my skin crawl. Well im glad I dont live in the US right now. The UK is also lurching towards an authoritarian system and its really quite alarming. And fascinating as well. I could go on about it for hours...

  110. Careful with the Queen dissing, dan. That geezer with the tin ear (not me) is still around these parts. He might kick your righteous ass. Be afraid, be very afraid. :o)

  111. Hah! Redneck alert on the Bolton thread.

    God I love those "America is the bestest most wonderfullest place in the world, far better than heaven or the garden of Eden even and we will kick yo sorry asses" guys :D

  112. dan WHATS WRONG WITH MEAT LOAF? (or at least bat out of hell) The finest rock album bar none.

  113. @Dan - "can you think of a bigger (lie)?"

    Gulf of Tonkin. Kept the MIC in business for years and led to even more deaths, on both sides, than the War for Oil and Gas (WOG for short).

    And the geezer with the tin ear was olching. Where's he been this week? You out there, mate, didn't mean to diss the Frockrockers!

    And, fwiw, dan, I like Meatloaf. Guy's got a great sense of humour above all, and Bat Out Of Hell's got some terrific songs. Seriously. And I'm a proper musical snob (-;

    Agree with you about Jeff Buckley though. Bought it, played it, binned it.

  114. Brusselsexpats wrote:

    "This is my final response to you..."

    Can you be sure of that? If so, why?

    "I'm not keeping up with the Joneses..."

    Boy, I think I'm getting too good at this finding sore spots, for my own good. I was just joking, too.

    "...and I do realise you have always had an issue with women who exist for other things than to service men's needs but hard luck."

    The only issue I have had with any woman are turning out really well. Intelligent, and good-looking, too.

    "You're posting on a European site and have to accept the fact that the powerful executive type of woman does actually exist here. And that's not going to change because it upsets you."

    First, this is not a "European site", it's an Internet site. The administrator and founder is an American. That the preponderance of posters are European plays no part, and will play no part in what I express here.

    Where do you get this stuff from? The "powerful executive type of woman"? Only exists in Europe? I know you didn't actually write that, but you sound like that's what you were saying.

    Where do you get that their existence, in Europe or anywhere else, upsets me? And why should that upset me? What do strange (unmet) women have to do with me?

    "And as for name-dropping - I have a whole list in my repertory that would have you in psychological meltdown but I've never mentioned them."

    Nice that you're all into stage-acting. That probably helps to relieve the stress of being powerful executives. Again, it was just a joke. I'm guessing your present amateur production isn't a comedy.

    "I only talked about Amy Fawcett because this is a private site not CiF."

    So, why did you feel the need to tell me how you know her? What do I care how you know here? Name-dropping by any other name...

    "I was also politely responding to what I thought was a question on your part. It won't happen again."

    I get the feeling you've been dying to broadcast that you know this Amy personally. I also get the feeling that you like telling people you're a powerful executive. For all I know you're a slatternly housewife who enjoys watching afternoon TV game shows in her night clothes. In fact, that's how I'm going to picture you from now on. Curlers and fag, too.

  115. dierobdie, New World Order? Is there an Old World Order? If so, who's running it, what does it entail, and why do you suppose the present leaders would hand over their power to the NWO upstarts?

  116. Good ol' Southern rock'n'roll with very bad lyrics. Play loud, tap your foot, have a laugh.

    Dan Baird

  117. Is there some kind of award we can give HuntKillBuryFin ?

    That's still making me chuckle...

  118. Dan, continuing from the other thread, what was it you contributed of inestimable value that I may have missed? I'm thinking that it was you who may have missed my comment showing that I didn't miss it. In any event, I received no response to that comment.

  119. Ha! Sorry, bit of a wind up with the Queen thing- Meatloaf himself I quite like- he was in some movie- right? That one with Brad Pitt and Ed Norton? Jeez, my brain's going... Also think Cher great actress (Moonstruck, Silkwood etc) but HATE her singing. Also the guy that runs the Badabing club in the Sopranos- he plays in Bruce Springsteen's band but I guess everybody knows that.

    Andysays- you have an interest in depression, do you? You're not alone. Google depression and you get about 25 million sites. But I'm an expert. I've had to give up all the drugs and booze except for the very occasional weak gin and tonic. For kicks I do meditation and yoga- actually very helpful.
    OK, now there's a topic for us...

  120. Ah Bill! The present leaders are the mentors fathers and patrons of the future ones. The power will be in the same hands it always has been. The NWO is the world being restructured into a one world government run by the elite for their own benefit. It is the network of people and organisations that work hard, very much behind the scenes in places you would not even begin to guess. Got to infowars.com for a look. Id do a link thing but I dont know how, sry!

  121. Meatloaf in '51st State' is a good laugh. Robert Carlyle, Samuel L Jackson, Ricky Tomlinson. Entertaing movie.

  122. monkeyfish
    Yes B&W - Ophelia Benson's place (Jeremy Stangroom is involved but it's her gig really). It regularly has some pretty high calibre - and funny - fiskings of CiF articles. They love Theo Hobson and Maddy Bunting etc. Good contributions too. I tend to just lurk there these days, heh heh. Probably the first blog I read regularly - pre cif I think (about 2003).
    In the early days, I made the mistake of going head to head with her on something I just hadn't read properly. She kicked my white ass all over town. Do not enter a scrap with her unarmed... lol.

    Oh, and you lot. Keep the noise down after 11 please. It's a school night. Not even Queen.

  123. Dan

    Meatloaf was also in the Rocky Horror Picture Show and got horrible pick-axed to death

  124. @dan - no, I'm with you on the Queen thing. Most overrated band in the history of pomp-rock.

    But The Meat? Nah, he's a ledge, mate. And he was great in Fight Club.

    Steve van Zandt, from Bruce's E Street Band, was Silvio in the Sopranos. Nobody dons the wig and sports jacket better.

    @Bitterweed - I'm still chuckling at HildyJohnson's pithy response to Bolton. And at Iniesta's goal...

  125. Back in the late 70s, I heard a BBC Radio (2?4?) inerview with Meatloaf. Throughout the interview, the BBC rentagob kept calling ML 'Mr. Loaf'. Rock 'n Roll at the Beeb...

  126. @mish - I alternate between The Meat or Mr Loaf. It's a simple matter of respect. And he's earned it.

  127. Hank, no wig, no jacket, no Sopranos - a bit of socialist rock:

    little steven and the disciples of soul

  128. Isnt it technically Meat Loaf? Im pretty sure theres a space.

  129. Hank
    HildyJohnson, missed it, haven't been cifing.

    Hmm... it's easy to see why people hate Queen. My case is that for original, cleverly crafted, brilliantly realised three minute hard rock songs, Sheer Heart Attack is hard to beat.

    They probably did have armadillos down their trousers sometimes though. I will coincede that.


  130. Not following, dierobdie. The Old World Order leaders are the fathers/mentors of the New World Order leaders, soon to be known as the elite (not to be confused with the present elite).

    The difference will be that instead of the (old) elite running things via, or fronted by, many national governments, the (new) elite will run things via a One World Government, or World Government (the "One" being entirely redundant, and probaby used soley for effect).

    This new elite will be running the World Government for their own benefit, as opposed to, I suppose, the old elite having run the many national governments for somebody else's benefit. The super elite's benefit, say.

    Now, you appear to say that the World governmment IS "a network of people and organisations that work hard, very much behind the scenes in places you would not even begin to guess". That would suggest that the NWO is already operating, according to you. If so, isn't it too late to do anything about it?

    And, if I would not even begin to guess where these people are operating, why would anyone else begin to guess it? And why are you talking about guessing, anyway? Are there any hard facts?

    Anyway, let's begin my education. I have a few questions, as usual.

    1. Why do you refer to the new government as the One World Government, instead of just the World Government.

    2. Why did the old elite feel the need to set a process in motion whereby their offspring or proteges would inherit a New World Order? What was wrong with them just taking over the Old World Order?

    3. Supposing a NWO is set in place, and the new elite wield power via a World Government, how will that materially affect me? That is, why should I care? That is, in effect, why should I want to ensure the continuance of the Old World Order?

  131. Changed my vote to AGAINST moving to a threaded board. Say no to the new world order!

  132. Bitterweed

    HildyJohnson's post on the Bolton thread was very succinct and to the point. She simply said "fuck you"


  133. Dear Bill, I'm not sure if the comment you missed preceeded my later comment which was in response to an earlier comment of yours in which you enquired about a comment I might have made some time after your initial comment with regard to my original comment of inestimable value. I hope that clears it up satisfactorily.

    HuntKillBuryFin's comment has been removed...

  134. BillP

    I'm guessing the term "New World Order" has been around so long it is in reality an old world order. The name just stuck: as it would. Newcastle, Newgate, New York and Newmarket have yet to change their names. Why the fuck should the New World Order?

    Why are you getting hung up on a label? Anyway, you're making a ridiculous assumption in assuming anything deemed new has to follow an older version.

    Why not...

    Joy Division >>>>>New Order

    Joy World Division >>>>New World Order?

    This derivation is just as likely as your supposed version. You're confusing meaning and naming. (assuming you admit 'meaning')

  135. @scherfig - watched the vid, heart's in the right place but not my sort of thing, sounded like Kid Creole meets Blue Rondo meets Ugly Rumours.

    Plus I misread the title of the song and was disappointed that it wasn't a remake of this..


    Subversive art at its finest...

  136. 4. Why are conspiracy theories (not saying they're crazy or wrong), whether the "official story" or the theory itself, always liberally sprinkled with three-word names and titles.

    Lee Harvey Oswald.

    John Fitzgerald Kennedy

    Osama Bin Laden

    George Walker Bush

    World Trade Centre

    New World Order

    One World Government

    Unidentified Flying Object

  137. @monkeyfish - didn't you get the meemo?!

  138. BillP

    4 Rhetorical considerations

  139. Yeah, Hank, great song - written by a Jewish schoolteacher from New York, I believe.

  140. monkeyfish, it's not my theory. I'm asking for clarification.

    A band chanaging it's name from one piece of Nazi language to another is not a relevant example.

    The Nazi "New Order" obviously superceded an old order.

    I'm not saying there had to be a named "Old Order", just that any new global political/economic order must necessary supercede some kind of old political/economic order.

    Otherwise, it would be better off being called the "World Order".

  141. monkeyfish, No. I want answers.

  142. Basically, I don't believe in the NWO theory, because I don't believe things could get any worse and the elite make as much out of it as they do now.

    That is, if it got any worse, people would just pack it all in. And then where would the elite be?

    Also, how much money can you possibly need? What benefit, for example, would Bill Gates or Warren Buffet get from the formation of a NWO?

    And what is the Lizard Queen looking to get out of it, more hendbegs?

  143. Vote for threads! TWO HOURS TO GO!

  144. Billp. I wonder if you are being deliberately obtuse.

    1. Call it the world governmaent if you like. Makes no difference.

    2. New in new world order refers really to this latest phase. The consolidation of power etc etc. The scions are inheriting the old. world order. but there will be changes.

    3 how will it effect you? What if a fascist state with total access to you and you records decides you are no longer worth having around? What then?

  145. Probably Dan. I was thinking that perhaps your contribution of inestimable value was your post pointing us to your Comix site. I went there and posted my thoughts on it. So, if it WAS that, I DIDN'T miss it. If it was something else, I did.

  146. Fuck, it’s well gone ten. Final post before I turn into a pumpkin. Lots to squeeze in.

    Dan: Jeff Buckley dismissed as hippy shock!

    I suspect I would have done so in earlier years myself.

    My musical tastes get more “catholic” as I get older.

    Thirty years ago it was 100% PUNK FUCKING ROCK
    (One song I still remember is Penetration’s “Don’t Dictate”, funnily enough, still a sentiment I’d endorse. But as we all know, sentiment is shit and rationality is the only true way).

    Now variety is the spice of life. Buckley was followed by The Stooges, who will be followed by Ornette, I think.

    Meatloaf, Abba and Cher will be tomorrow night. Not

    I’ve done yoga and meditation too; helpful for me too. As was a form of CBT, though only after fucking years; it’s not an instant miracle cure. But the best thing for me is my allotment. Keep taking the Venlafaxine – where’s it gone? Stay well, mate

    scherfig: I don’t remember it from Ulysses, but I’m happy to take your word for it. Like I’m going to check now! Can’t comment on Terry Pratchett other than: doesn’t appeal, may be a blind spot.

    thaumaturge: The basic story from my POV is this:
    I sent Montana an e-mail yesterday morning and was (impatiently) waiting for a reply. I knew she was “stateside” but wasn’t sure where and therefore didn’t know what time zone she was/is in. I asked a question on one thread about that (there were two running at the time, if you remember). Very soon afterwards bitterweed (sorry again, mate) made an unrelated announcement on the other thread, which I stupidly took as a cryptic response to my question.

    We then entered into a surreal conversation, or rather two parallel conversations. His/hers? (not sure, probably not paying attention BW, not relevant to story) conversation was about Teachers’ Awareness Week in Nebraska (as I now recall); mine was about how to contact Montana, but with dialogue from a dodgy cold war spy thriller.

    Go on, laugh, you bastards. See if I care.

    I’m going to bed anyway.

  147. billp you say
    "That is, if it got any worse, people would just pack it all in. And then where would the elite be?"

    EXACTLY. You have the answer. The power they have relies on everybody agreeing to believe. If nobody believes then they are lost. However there are ways to keep everyone believing. Fear is the biggest motivator for humans. You may not kill for love or money or sex. But you will kill for fear. You will do anything for fear. Notice that at the peak of the financial crisis such a fuss was made out of the flu pandemic. KILLER FLU AAARGH! All of a sudden instead of the government being the peoples enemy it was the saviour. Instead of questioning the authorities people now await their orders.

  148. billp

    As for not believing things can get worse? I wonder if they said that in russia or china or cambodia or germany or any of the other places the governments have slaughtered their own people. Im not saying thats necessarily the plan but its happened before, is happening now, and will happen again. We should be keeping a very close eye indeed on who is doing what and why they are doing it when there is such a massive potential for destruction in these peoples hands.

  149. dierodbie: "Billp. I wonder if you are being deliberately obtuse."

    I wasn't. I must have been being accidentally obtuse.

    "1. Call it the world governmaent if you like. Makes no difference."

    I didn't ask for your permission to use my own terminology. I asked why YOU refer to it as the One World Government? What's the "One" about? How many worlds are there? And why don't they say "Sole" or "Lone" anyway. OWG is grammatically incorrect. Now, I ask you, is that any way to begin a counter-insurgency?

    "2. New in new world order refers really to this latest phase. The consolidation of power etc etc. The scions are inheriting the old. world order. but there will be changes."

    So, it's really the RWO, or Revamped World Order. That doesn't sound so spooky. I'm glad they are keeping the World Order up-to-date. There would be nothing worse, to my way of thinking, than a delapidated world order. It'd be an eyesore.

    Wasn't power consolidated before? Did you mean the further consolidation of power. Not being powerful at all, how should that affect me, negatively or otherwise? I mean, if I'm junior janitor No 13, in one tower block of a major multinational company, and that multinational decides to, say, merge the positions of CEO and CFO, why should I worry about that?

    Isn't it always the scions who inherit the old order? I was just telling my own scions over breakfast, "One day, all this will be yours." My scions weren't that impressed. Scions, eh? Tsk! Who can understand them, nowadays? And yet, we love them, and care for them ,a nd work our fingers to the bone for them. What else we gonna do? Eh? You tell me. What else we gonna do?

    Now, you say there will be changes. Should I worry about that? Aren't there always changes? Does anything really ever stay the same for long?

    "3 how will it effect you? What if a fascist state with total access to you and you records decides you are no longer worth having around? What then?"

    I get the feeling they think that already (I wonder if this blog is fascist state? Perhaps that's why they got irked over my Freedom of Expression speeches). I just can't see though, how I'll ever be considered important enough to waste gas on. Suppose they set me to sweeping up, instead? Surely, places can never be too clean and tidy?

    Anyway, I look around me, here in the Old World Order, and I see various kinds of people being kept around for no apparent reason. I'm guessing I'll make it okay in the NWO.

  150. Just got home & caught up. Haven't looked at Cif yet to see the ugliness that must be the Bolton thread. Why the fuck does the Graun give shitbags like him & Richard Perle a place to air their crap? The sad thing (and the reason why I'm hoping to eventually get the hell out of here for good) is that even most Americans on the 'left' end of the political spectrum buy into the "America is the freest, bestest, wonderfullest country ever!" horsecrap and even when they acknowledge that the US has done some shitty things around the world, even most US lefties tend to see the place as being more good than evil.

  151. dierobdie: "EXACTLY. You have the answer. The power they have relies on everybody agreeing to believe."

    Agreeing to believe? So, there's no forcing of any kind? Well, we're safe then. I'll never agree to believe anything.

    "If nobody believes then they are lost."

    Believes what?

    What if 5 believe?

    "However there are ways to keep everyone believing."

    No, there aren't. Belief is internal. You can't MAKE anyone believe anything.

    "Fear is the biggest motivator for humans. You may not kill for love or money or sex. But you will kill for fear. You will do anything for fear."

    And the new elite will benefit by a society of people who would do anything for fear how? Why not just get rid of the people altogether? Perhaps keeping, say, 10 as servants, gardeners, etc?

    Notice that at the peak of the financial crisis such a fuss was made out of the flu pandemic. KILLER FLU AAARGH! All of a sudden instead of the government being the peoples enemy it was the saviour.

    I wasn't aware the government was held to be the people's enemy. Do your refer to the OWO governments? IF they ARE the people's enemy, why do you want to ensure their continuance by halting plans for a NWO?

    "Instead of questioning the authorities people now await their orders."

    See, that's what you're SUPPOSED to do with authorities. Await their orders. I say we scrap the authorities. I say we create a New World Order!! [Note to my revolutionary adjutant: Get down to the relevant office and register the NWO trademark for us. I'm guessing it's still available].

    Ha ha! The game's afoot, dierobdie! We'll beat the elite scions at their own game yet!

  152. Montana

    Heheh - the Bolton thread is .. icky. I amazed myself at my ability not to tell him I hoped he dies in a fire, frankly. He is such a toad. Scroll back up here and you will see the brilliant post from Huntkill whatever the rest of his nick is. It was awesome :o)

  153. hullo billp

    call it what you like. sole lone. dont bother me. its as long as you understand the principle behind it.

    ""a nd work our fingers to the bone for them. What else we gonna do? Eh? You tell me. What else we gonna do?""

    How about not working our fingers to the bone? Is it really necessary for OUR benefit. How much of your labour actually gets into your pocket? How much of what gets into your pocket do you actually need? There is a vast surplus of wealth in the west and everybody is working forty plus hour weeks simply because not enough people have realised it isnt necessary.

  154. (Still up, though only for ten more minutes)

    Montana: Regarding your comment about America.

    Quite obviously, BRITAIN is the freest, bestest, wonderfullest country ever.

    Bloody ungrateful colonials!

  155. dierobdie: "As for not believing things can get worse? I wonder if they said that in russia or china or cambodia or germany or any of the other places the governments have slaughtered their own people."

    Yes, but those regimes did that in order to consolidate power, in face of competition (in the form of intellectuals who aspired to copying or instituting other regimes). That is, the people had an alternative. Once a NWO is in place, run by an OWG, there will be no alternative. So, why would they want to slaughter us?

    "Im not saying thats necessarily the plan but its happened before, is happening now, and will happen again."

    Yes, but it's to be a NEW WORLD ORDER. You can't fairly state that there are plans for a NWO, then suppose that its schemes will be a selected from a portfolio of OWO schemes. Don't tell me it's going to be a New Improved World Order? I just couldn't take a New World Order that is nothing more than the Old World Order repackaged and remarketed. If it is, however, wouldn't it be great if it could be called something that forms the acronym OMO?

    "We should be keeping a very close eye indeed on who is doing what and why they are doing it when there is such a massive potential for destruction in these peoples hands."

    There's a band of what amounts to temporary desert nomads daily getting closer to taking control of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal. Is that the kind of thing we should be keeping an eye on? Are the Taliban the scions of the old elite?

  156. @andy - hey, as long as Brenda & her bunch are still around, you're just a two-bit monarchy! Get rid of the Windsors -- then we'll talk!

    @BB - couldn't do it. Just couldn't. I can't respond to that fucktard without foul language. I want to see him, Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft, Rumsfuck -er, feld, Condy & John Yoo (at least) thrown into Abu Ghraib and have the place opened to the Iraqi public to do with those shitbags however they see fit. But death is too good for them.

  157. dierobdie: "call it what you like. sole lone. dont bother me. its as long as you understand the principle behind it."

    I don't understand the principle behind it. It sounds made up.

    "How about not working our fingers to the bone?"

    Actually, I've rather an embarrassing admission to make on that score...

    "There is a vast surplus of wealth in the west and everybody is working forty plus hour weeks simply because not enough people have realised it isnt necessary."

    So, people are greedy and stupid and can't think critically. I knew that much. However, lots of what you say only adds to my confusion. If it's so bad now, under the OWO, why should we want to block the NWO? It's because they're lizards, isn't it? Always swore I'd never work for lizards. Money-grabbing scum!

  158. Billlp

    Im tired, but if youre not why not go to infowars.com and have a nose around. Go in with an inquisitive mind and and see if anything clicks for you. Like I said i abit new to this NWO stuff myself and its very late here so maybe im not presenting the most cogent argument at the moment. Let me know if you think the guy is a fraud or if he is just misinterpreting the facts.


  159. Montana: how can I answer an argument like that?

    If only everyone here had your way with words.

    Some of them just seem to drone on and on don’t they, just to hear the sound of their own voices.

    Almost makes me wish I’d persevered with BTH.

    I said almost...

  160. Okay thanks, dierobdie. I might hold off visiting that site, though, until someone can tell me why we'd want to block a NWO (and, obviously, hang on to the not very desirable OWO) anyway.

    For me the whole thing is akin to the "bricks without straw" story. If you were currently working as a slave in a mud brick pit for 12 hours a day, on meagre rations, and being whipped and otherwise abused regularly, would you really have the energy to get outraged about a new "no straw" rule?

    And who'd suffer most from the implementation of such a rule? The Pharoah, right? Even if the slaves continued to make their daily quota (by going out at night to collect the straw), how long would it be before the workforce started dwindling? Either way, production would suffer.

    You can only push the workers so far, one way or another, before production suffers, for one reason or another. It seems to me we're already on the brink of collapse. Any NWO would necessarily have to make work interesting and truly rewarding again. Or there would be no point in making the change.

  161. Hahahahaha. Never thought I'd utter these words, but I think I love the Daily Telegraph


    A scandal at the heart of our democracy.

    There can be no doubt the current system is rotten and cannot survive.

    Telegraph View
    Last Updated: 9:48PM BST 07 May 2009

    The systematic misappropriation by MPs of the allowance paid to defray the expense of keeping a second home is one of the great scandals of modern public life. It is a story that our readers, indeed the whole country, need to be told. Now, for the first time, it can be.

    As The Daily Telegraph discloses today, it goes far beyond the now familiar tales of barbecue equipment, bath plugs or adult movies bought at the taxpayer's expense. Many honourable members (of all parties, because this is, explicitly, not a party political matter) have been complicit in what amounts to an officially sanctioned and sustained abuse of public funds perpetrated against their own constituents over many years.


    Well fuck me sideways and call me Susan.

    Night all. Happy dreams.

  162. Here's the NWO.

    "May 6, 2009. About 21.8 percent of all owners were underwater as of March 31, the Seattle-based real estate data service said in a report today."


    1. Begin the industrial age.

    2. Have a couple of World Wars. To kick the discipline out of people, and to open the door to women working.

    3. Invent marketing.

    4. Develop TV.

    5. Invent easy credit.

    6. Deregulate lending institutions.

    Wait for it...

    Pop all the bubbles.

    Instant slaves, ready to serve.

  163. Night, Susan, and thanks btw, you were great xx


  164. But was it as good for Susan as it was for you, Hank?

  165. Yeah he's not bad at all, is John Hopkins! Some of it reminds me of Sabres of Paradise.


  166. Cheers Jay, thaumaturge and Dan;

    Thaumaturge - yes I was bored, and looking to clothe the ghost, as it were. Does woolly drop in here? I haven't mined all the threads yet . . .

  167. BB - I hope you're sitting comfortably, i have some rather distressing news (Scherfig, also, im sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news):

    "Beatutiful Burnout is a proven liar and has spread proven lies about me. Ihave confronted her lies onthe what do youwantot talk aboutthread that reached more than 1000 comments) I am disgusted that you are giving above the line status to a person who cannot stick to truth in her comments.
    She inserted words into her claimed analysis of (claimed) my post and claimed that expressions quoted from annetan were mine.
    It is also disgusting that The Guardian moderators have prevented me repeatedly form telling the truth by deleting my correction on the subject. I feel she should apologize to me in public. As well as should Scherfig who posted a deliberately misleading post, where I was feely referring to Annetan's expression in the intention of painting me up as liar.(Her comment can be seen on May the 2nd 7.49) Moreover I think it is disgusting that such a purveor of deliberate, mendacious personal abuse will now be above the line. I will challenge her every article, as I'm sure they willbe as lacking in principles as her posts."

    Guess who?

  168. Jay, was it maybe, could it be, possibly, and its just a guess, Sarka? It was the *purveor of deliberate, mendacious personal abuse" that gave it away!

  169. Damn, you got it first time...

    (Sarka will be exceptionally offended)

  170. Terrible weather here today. you got a bank holiday in england too?

  171. Sadly not, we had one monday just gone, and a couple few weeks ago, but i thinks thats all of them for a while, but it is grey and shitty here - we expect nothing less of our summers.

  172. Well its very traditional bank holiday weather here. Yesterday fine and sunny, open the curtains today. Pissing down. Oh well, a good excuse to continue to be idle!

  173. That sounds familiar - its a pain in the arse, sunny in the morning so go to work in just a shirt then it pisses down in the afternoon for the walk home, massively irritating...

    Where is "here" by the way? Whereabouts you live? Not in sunny blighty i presume?

  174. I live in Denmark now. Long story. You would recognise the weather instantly though.Im orginally from england but i spent alot of time here and there. Im starting to talk funny when i speak english to english people now!

  175. Gee, Jay that's really wrecked my day :0) I see it's been deleted already. It seems that her constant attempts to drone on and on about this on thread after thread have been noted by the moderators, who might have realized that she's short in the picnic department department by about 200 sandwiches. Maybe they'll ban her prior to your return. What irony.

  176. "I feel she should apologize to me in public."

    Is there any finer example of hypocrisy? The woman that steadfastly refused to respond despite being caught out repeatedly telling a whopper (about Cath Elliott and me) and now she's demanding apologies off others.

    If you're feeling distraught, Scherf, just remember wwe're all here for you.

    She's a whole picnic short of a picnic, and really is developing this "projection" stuff to quite an artform.

    If she was banned i would have to begrudgingly lobby for her release, and that really would piss her off.

  177. Telling lies about you and Cath, eh, Jay? wink wink, nudge nudge - I'd always suspected it.

    We're having a bit of sun here, although it's windy as fuck and not terribly warm.

    Ah look, there's a new thread. I'm going on there.

  178. Well its an open secret Cath finds me rather irresistable, she always says to me, "If i wasnt married..."

  179. scherfig: 'drone on and on'

    well, you know, not to stop the party fizz of little england ... but I'm prepared to support the lone voice of ulitmathingo

    btw billp, good to *see* you again. How's the dog walking going? I know this is a leap in the face of nationalism, but do you have a chihuahua?

  180. parallax - you may feel differently when she starts to post lies about you. Maybe not. Little England is not a club I'd ever be allowed into btw. You may be luckier in that respect.

  181. "you may feel differently when she starts to post lies about you."

    Yep, i used to be slightly fond of her in a sort of eccentric old lady kind of way, but things to tend to change a bit when someone continually lies about you, personally abuses you on the basis of experiences you had when you were 19, talks about your 'sexual problems' and continually demands that you be banned for things you never said. I may be wrong but i think that would test anyone's patience, so forgive me if im less than glowing about her.

  182. parallax, I support ultima's right to an opinion also. Perhaps lies for them, are not lies for her.

    No, I don't have a chihuahua, although I do continue to walk what I have.