06 May 2009

Daily Chat 06/05/09

Here's the place for random conversation and musing...


  1. Can't believe I'm first.

    Has everyone else been banned?


    Funny echo in here.

  2. Morning campers...

    I was thinking, for the daily chat - some days we might only get say 60 comments, or some days 300, wouuld it not make more sense to start a new thread when its needed? When it gets to the 200 mark, someone from the thread just needs to announce that they are going to start the new chat and then do it, no? Im just thinking if Montana is not free at midnight (her time, i think) for whatever reason then it throws it out a bit.

  3. Bloody hell, you lot have been busy over the last few days! Still trying to catch up on past threads.

    Did see you'd been promised a return, Jay - congratulations!

  4. Thanks Thauma, yeah i did finally wangle a reprieve with the help of principled ciffers from across the spectrum. Quite funny also - ultima, gilda etc who came out in support of the ban have now outed themselves as censorious little ***** and now i am to be allowed to return anyway, so they've done pretty badly out the whole thing. And obviously incurred my eternal wrath, my retribution will be swift and terrible...

    I was going to ask you, happy with the Lions? Your boys have done alright.

  5. Dear JayReilly: As is clearly stated above, this thread is for Daily Chat.

    Your comment clearly relates to a topic which is currently being discussed on another thread. You are welcome to join the discussion there, but please refrain from making off-topic comments here.

    Consulting the Community Moderators database tells me that you have been warned about this sort of thing before. If you persist in flouting the rules, which have been created for your safety and convenience, your comments will be removed and your posting rights revoked.

    Otherwise it’s just fucking anarchy, innit?

  6. Andy-

    Anarchy (no) rules KO!

  7. I have been warned, i continued to flout the rules, i accept my punishment...

    (Has anyone seen the Bindel piece? The old girl had an Avon makeover, the pic shows the results - not too bad Julesy, not too bad...)

  8. Yes, a decent Bindel piece that I actually agree with - and we can't comment on it!

    Am happy with the Lions selection, of course - not sure about the captaincy but there are arguments both ways. Looks like Quinlan will be off the tour, though - idiot.

    Was glad to see Shane Horgan back on the pitch for Leinster t'other day. Mostly because he's HOT. And Cardiff v. Leicester - what can you say about that?

  9. I've just checked out 'Girls World' Bindel and gave a bit of a double take. If I'd have been drinking booze from a brown paper bag, I'd have glanced at it wide-eyed and then thrown it over my shoulder, as if in sudden realisation that I needed to give up.

    Bindel looks pretty good, but then so did Kristanna Loken in 'Terminator 3', but both have been programmed to want me exterminated.

  10. Eugh, Horgan? Thauma im disappointed in you.

    Lions looks good though, us English are deservingly pretty scarce in the squad but i think its gonna be a pretty decent team, mainly because at the minute Ireland and Wales have got a lot of pretty amazing players.

    Couldnt believe that game, im not a huge leicester fan but will of course support english teams against welsh, felt bad for Martyn Williams though, he is such a quality player he didnt really deserve that. And to be kicked out a tournament by a big lumbering 8 like Jordan Crane, gotta hurt... I do love Tom Croft though, prefer him in back row but even so, he's a quality player and still very young, he was unlucky not to make the Lions squad i think.

  11. Morning Caleb,

    "Bindel looks pretty good, but then so did Kristanna Loken in 'Terminator 3', but both have been programmed to want me exterminated."

    Yeah she doesnt look too bad does she, though she still has those same peircing eyes that project frothing contempt...

  12. Hooray! Jay Reilly has been banned from The Untrusted? Well, I can't say I'm surprised and I'm happy about it. I saw some of his posts before they were deleted. He is evil person and a bully. He said anntann was woman and is always stalking billp. He also called me a asparagus! I have never reported before but if they let him back I will flaggggg him many times and also the other haters here -Ally and shefigg, and the womantraitors kizoldboot and yankeemontana and uglyburnout. There is no place here for such lowdown bad language and personal attack. It is mark of bad-educated people who have never spent 12 years in higher education or read Julia Kristeva or Jackie Collins.

    I will raise many glasses with my friend varis (although I am het) if he never comes back. Good riddance!

  13. Whaddaya you know about hot men - you are one of those unreconstructed patriarchs, aren't you? Yes, felt really sorry for Williams. Expect Croft will be in squad for Quinlan, though!

  14. Hi Jay,

    Did you work out who that poster was? Sorry, I can't remember!

    In answer to where I've been, all this summer the answer's pretty much going to be "waist deep in a river" but I'll be around when I can...........


    perhaps you'd feel better if you shared a personal anecdote?

  15. "Ultima" - you had me going there for a while!

  16. annetan42: “I am an antichrist! etc, etc...”

    I am happy to go along with “rules” like those of grammar and spelling and stuff, which actually do help people to communicate.

    I am not happy at all about being expected to confirm to “rules” which I am allowed no part in influencing, and which seek to put arbitrary and unnecessary limits on my behaviour and that of those around me.

    Two examples of this which spring to mind are CiF bods telling me what I’m not allowed to say, and assorted Pol/Les bods telling my loved ones (coming to included you in that category, BTW) who they’re allowed to sleep with.

    Might check out Julie later, if I get a chance.

    Rules eh? One word; many meanings

  17. Hi, I'm Spartacus and I'm an alcoholic.

    {All: Hi Spartacus. We're Spartacus and we're alcoholics}

  18. "Yeah she doesnt look too bad does she, though she still has those same peircing eyes that project frothing contempt..."

    Well since Bindel has done high heels, now make-up maybe next the Graun will get her a job at Hooters and see how much she can make in tips.

    Personally I'd like to see her do a Nora Vincent and spend a year as a man, although maybe she already is and posts as BTH.

  19. I'm not an alcoholic. I am group, addicted to opiates though. Only the ones my brain releases when I run for more than about 40min though. Yesterday's hillwork the last two reps went much better once that third wind kicked in. I have to watch it though, easy to ignore problems that only seem like insignificant niggles while I'm high.

    Anyway, back to the topic. The Lions haven't a chance against the Boks. Too many ordinary Irishmen, the Irish were good because they operated well as a unit rather than because they had lots of very good players. I'm not sure that is transferrable to a Lions situation. The Boks are going to find those weaknesses. And no Ben Blair, disgraceful.

    Still the All Blacks are looking tasty coming up to the end of S14.

  20. There is really no need for a daily or even a weekly chat blog, make it a monthly one. Is there any way one can see who was the last person posted a comment and where? Wordpress allows you to view this and it makes it easier for all to follow threads; you can still leave a comment on a very old thread and get responds from others because they get alerted and can see someone has left a new comment.

    Close threads only when necessary; it can stay open all month, what's wrong with that? Do not copy CIF way of doing things; shutting and closing down debates is not helpful in any way.

    Give posters freedom and options to edit, delete & update their OWN comments only.

  21. & I am not alcoholic at all! :-)

  22. No Daily Chat threads will be being closed down, only the used pages of the one big, continuous Daily Chat thread.

    Again, on Cif, when they get to the bottom of page 1, they open page 2 (for web efficiency reasons), and you can no longer post on page 1. It'll be the same here, except we'll eventually have a page 1000, then a 1001, and so on. Instead of being numbered and labelled page 1, page 2..., ours will be labelled with the day's date.

    Remember that these are CHAT threads. They should be current. Who ever walked into a pub and said "Regarding that point Harry was making three weeks ago (I have it {fumble, fumble} written down somewhere), I'd like to just say that..."

  23. non-alcoholic anonymous - who are you?

  24. The funny thing is, the "ultima" post could actually quite plausibly be her, she is that ridiculous that satire isnt always easily recognisable.

    Thauma you clearly have poor taste in men, if you had any class you would be raving about the Welsh prop who looks like a sheep, or that stunner Julian White, props are always such pretty boys...

    Hiya Dot - the personal anecdote episode was priceless, absolutely priceless - still no apology for that, still no apology for her comments regarding Cath (though she now claims she was talking about another bout of 'horrendous personal abuse' from me, but obviously no one else saw it), she is just shameless beyond measure. And she def will flag every single comment of mine when im back, she is just the sort to make good on her threat.

  25. D'you mean Adam Jones?

    Front rows are very useful in a match but they don't have the nice arses of wingers. Sorry.

  26. "Personally I'd like to see her do a Nora Vincent and spend a year as a man, although maybe she already is and posts as BTH."

    I dont know who should be more insulted, BTH or Bindel...

    I dont really see what the big deal is with the general chat pages/days etc - if people cant post on old 'pages', then so what? They can post in the new page. If people can paste in old pages but most people have moved on, so what? It will prob be ignored as people have moved on. I really dont think we should fret over this overly.

  27. Yeah Adam Jones, he belongs in a zoo.

  28. Damn rugby players, a certain university team owe me a liver, and a large chunk of my early twenties............

  29. Please also open a thread for "saved CIF comments", for anyone who wishes to save their/others comments before they get deleted! and for future ref. (an-always-open-thread will do, and perhaps archive quarterly)

    I have genuine questions please:

    How safe are IP addresses on these threads? Where are they stored & who has access to them?

    Scherfig, I am an ex-cifer and truly friendly! no need to worry :-)

  30. "but they don't have the nice arses of wingers"

    Arse isn't a word that lends itself well to compliments.

    Fat arse. Hairy arse. Nice ass. Nice bum.

  31. Jay, look into my eyes, look into my eyes, not around my eyes, but in my eyes... You have never even heard of ultimathule or that rightwing git... 321, open your eyes.

  32. Nice try, billp, but that'll never work!

  33. What is our logo, a mouse or a dog?

  34. nice arse, ass is too American.........

  35. scherfig - too right, an ass is an animal!

    Oh, did you mean the hypnotism?

    Just found annetan42's very good comment on the Amnesty thread re "we all have sex with someone we love even if we don't feel like it" & ultima's bizarre reaction to that statement, and also paddybrown's excellent point:

    The thing about ultima's attitude to sex is, if a man were to announce that sex should only be about his pleasure, we'd know what sort of man he was, wouldn't we?Too right!

  36. And oh dear England now 1 down at an absolutely delightful looking Lords. Straussy looks to have caught a touch of the Gowers there, wafting well outside off-stump, taken behind the wicket by Ramdin off Taylor. Taylor's just served up a beauty to Bopara as well.

  37. I think you have a glittering new career in sorcery ahead of you Billp, i now feel a warm glow every time i think of the old girl and feel a desperate urge to poodle at her feet, showering her with snivelling praise and weasel words of flattery, im... im... oh my god, you've turned me into BTH!!!

  38. "too right, an ass is an animal!"

    Exactly, something I shall never forget, since primary school, where I wrote a poem about a lawn mower, containing the line:

    "I can mow grass, faster than any donkey or ass"

    And forgot to read it out to the class in a Northern accent!

  39. Ass - if there's going to be any rules, #1 should be "Arse, thank you, we're British."

  40. No probs, anonymous. :0) A few of us here have occasionally saved our (and sometimes others') deleted comments and posted them here. No reason not to just continue with that? They're highly topical and read in the context of a specific thread anyway, so I think an archive wouldn't necessarily be of any use.

  41. @Jay:

    Indeed. It's "arse" for me all the way. Oh good, just got a "glimpse" of Mike Gatting on the telly, he really is a very round man indeed now. Saw him at Headers last year, tucking into a pie with a wry smile as all around cheered. Good stuff.

  42. No, Jay, I think you've turned into that cunt Tony Blair.

  43. Isn't the administrator American?

  44. SwiftyBoy wrote: Indeed. It's "arse" for me all the way.

  45. @billp:

    Yep, particularly for talking out of... it's arse all the way for this sinner.

  46. Just skimming that nice Mrs Bindel's make up thread (as opposed to "made up thread", presumably) and it looks like the sisters are having a good old catfight about the right to wear make up if you're a) a feminist; b) a lesbian; c) neither; d) both.

    Me and my mate used to regularly get our heads kicked in by nasty skinheads back in the early 80s for our Goth eyeliner. Tough old towne, York.

  47. Swifty, did you ever get your head kicked in by these guys?>

  48. Thauma - that is most unladylike language, Mr Blair is a charming beacon of decency and integrity, i shall never be saying another ill word of him... (his lackies are everywhere, be warned)

    Gatting's always been a fatty, he just cant lay off the pies.

    Swifty - where is the catfight? I didnt think you could comment on Jules make up thread?

  49. Swiftyboy, isn't that a prerequisite for membership here?

  50. Excellent article on heresy corner about sci-fi. A good read if that's your thing.

  51. @scherfig:

    Big fan of sci fi, particularly dystopian (natch). And particularly particularly Gene Wolfe. The man's a legend in my eyes.

    @billp: I'm not a member yet, I'm an associate. I haven't been initiated yet. I think Jay's warming the poker now.

    @jay: tucked away here in the Women's Lifeandstyle section.


    It's a cracker!

  52. They seem to have opened it for comments, although I'm still trying to resist the temptation....

  53. Oh this is cruel, Bindel gets a makeover and i cant comment, vicious bastards...

  54. vicious bastards are not the right words to describe these fookers Jay!!!!

  55. @jay: I know, I know, I'm almost tempted but I've taken the pledge so cannot. But buggeration and damn it to hell.

    The before and after shots particularly appeal. And, as usual, La Bindel's enormously patronising tone about the girls (at the make up party this time) who don't share her world view. She really is quite the schoolmarm, ain't she?

  56. Oops. The 'female rape isn't funny' thread has just vanished from the Graun's gender section.

  57. "vicious bastards are not the right words to describe these fookers Jay!!!!"

    "vicious bastards" - it was an example of my new restraint...

    "And, as usual, La Bindel's enormously patronising tone about the girls (at the make up party this time) who don't share her world view."

    Par for the course, they dont have a different view - they have the wrong view - they need re-educating - if only they would listen to their betters and see how vacuous they are... Try Lesbianism?

  58. @Ca1eb:

    Thank the good Lord I missed that one. Who was the culprit?

  59. @jay: Interesting theory. Do you think Jules is secretly on the pull all the time, looking to turn the straight sisters for her own nefarious "lady golfing" ends?

  60. Absolutely. "Arse" all the way. Especially when said with a proper rhotic accent.

  61. I would marry Julie Bindel at the drop of a hat. Not in church, obviously.

  62. Billplasterer

    This is Brusselsexpats (my sign-in is a shambles)

    The new Chair of the Guardian is Amelia or Amy Fawcett who I met many times when working in an American law firm in Brussels and she was still at Morgan Stanley. I genuinely liked her and don't think she has anything to do with the moderators' actions.


  63. bru, go into blogger dashboard.

    linkSign in and click on 'edit profile'

    Go down to 'Idenity', and enter brusselsexpats in the 'Display Name' field.

    Scroll to the bottom of the page and click 'save profile'

  64. Very sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities, Jay.

    Bindel's article is actually very restrained as compared to her usual. I'm shocked.

  65. Jay:

    ++"vicious bastards" - it was an example of my new restraint... ++


    When are you going to be allowed back to post on CIF again? Have the mods (Adam is the nasty one and Sarah seems to be nice!) given you a date?

    Good luck.

  66. Swifty - i suspect thats why she writes for the Guardian, its like having a high profile ad on a dating site - the Graun is swarming with feisty lesbians and "brave" rad-fems, its prime hunting ground...

    Sadly, after agreeing to go for drinks with her latest CiF admirer she was stunned to arrive at the bar only to find a rather obsequious, charmless young man waiting for her, "Good evening ma'am, it is I, BiteTheHand."

  67. Thanks Scherfig - will try that out this evening when I have more time;


  68. apropos of fuck all: I don't mind, and I have a lot of time for, Bitethehands.


  69. @thauma:

    She still manages to talk disparagingly of every woman in the world who doesn't see it the way she does. And I'm still puzzled why normal women wear make up, so she managed not to shed any light on that either.

    She mentions that "everyone is so sweet and non-judgmental that I start to relax." What a shame she couldn't have taken a leaf out of their book.

    She concedes that "we are so scrutinised by men, and often other women, that it has become unacceptable for us to display naked faces" then goes on to assert it's a way of "making it easier for men to assert their masculinity." What about the "other women" you mentioned, Julie? etc etc.

  70. Thauma, despite occasional appearances I am a deeply sensitive and religiously committed young man, such language grieves me most seriously.

    I'm scheduled for release on May 30th, Anon(?), got a month in the cooler...

    Adam is quite strict, but it was also Adam who agreed to the compromise. But yeah as mods go - tough cookie.

  71. SwiftyBoy - yes, that last bit - I have often been attacked by men, restrained and had make-up forcibly applied so that they could assert their masculinity.

    As Van Morrison said, "all the girls go by / dressed up for each other".

    She did refrain from actually attacking other women (and even, mostly, men) blatantly this time. Make-up women were "sweet and non-judgemental", as you point out!

  72. "apropos of fuck all: I don't mind, and I have a lot of time for, Bitethehands.


    Fair enough, each to their own, i just find him a royal pain in the arse and a bit creepy at times.

  73. Croft was v unlucky...However I wonder if Geech has a cunning plan regarding the maul rule reversal? Croft is decent but light..if we go down there with decent grunt, we might be able to use the maul better than SF do. Armitage had the gas but he's still a bit of an unknown quantity for the high ball ( esp at SF altitudes )

    Read Bindels piece on the train, didn't quite get some of it?
    The male scrutiny bit is a puzzler, as not wearing make-up ( or going for the plain no-frills look ) usually means the exact opposite..males ( generally speaking ) take even less notice?

    I've never heard any male say "look at her, fancy going out without her make-up on!"?
    But we're usualy cupable for something in those articles, so why not scrutineering women on their make-up?

    In for a penny, in for a pound..

    Mendoza ( forgot to sign in )

  74. @thauma:

    Maybe so, maybe so, I think you're giving the most charitable reading to the article but I'm pretty neutral about women wearing make up. Don't feel the need to assert my masculinity much these days, either, come to think of it.

  75. Swifty - well, she does have form, so it's easy to read more into it than is said.

  76. Talking of make up, does anyone know where I can buy clear mascara these days?

  77. @Swiftyboy

    Thank the good Lord I missed that one. Who was the culprit?It's back on the main CiF page! By somebody called Sady Doyle who is an American who's apologising on behalf of her nation for a Canadian.

  78. Clear mascara? What's the point?

    - Puzzled

  79. @Ca1eb:

    Thanks mate, I've just had a quick skim. Well, again, congrats go out to the CiF commissioning team, very clever. Should stir up a good ole hornet's nest, that one.

    That being said, the film doesn't sound all that, to be honest.

  80. Somebody who appears to be implying that Lilly Allen is a talent the US should be thanking us for.....

  81. thauma

    to make your lashes look longer and more defined without turning into a panda........

  82. OK, now I do think Bindel's having a mid-life crisis. She's come below the line and said: "Rebecca and the other women at the party were fabulous. In the piece I write, before it was edited for length, I not only mentioned the brilliant charity work Avon, and in particular Rebecca is involved in for women's refuges and breast cancer aid, I also made clear how non-judgemental everyone was."Aren't these women self-hating collaborators, or something?

  83. elementary_watson06 May, 2009 14:38

    What's wrong with looking like a panda?

  84. thaumaturge : (haven't read the thread - just responding to your general question) no, I reckon people negotiate their lives as they go along - shit, who's gonna set themselves in concrete when they know life is all about sorting stuff out along the way? We all negotiate our positions from experience - that's why we talk to each other - y'know, fuck defending a position without listening to responses - that's the road to fundamentalism.

  85. parallax - I was referring to a previous Bindel (or it might have been Bidisha) thread where the author referred to women who didn't exactly agree with her agenda as "self-hating collaborators".

  86. Thauma

    "Aren't these women self-hating collaborators, or something?"

    Internalised misogynists, clearly.

  87. @@kizbot

    06 May 09, 12:50pm (about 2 hours ago)

    It's amnesty or bust for me... but you can always find me with the other juveniles...@@


    Very sweet of you kizbot! A CIFer with principles; one for all..all for one! x

  88. Ok cool. So what's the problem? Is it that the author (who strangely has no face but is a Bindel/Bidisha merged voice) has adjusted the agenda? But isn't that what you'd prefer? - that there's a different more-to your-liking perspective? I don't understand why, when they move towards something you agree with, you admonish them for adjusting their position.

  89. Parallax - no, I'm pleasantly surprised, that's all! Because Bindel is generally a fundamentalist but is showing a touch of empathy here that's usually missing from her articles.

  90. Norman Hadley


    Given the dangerous level of mortality among the Nigerian plutocracy..."

    Made me laugh. Lets get him over here.

  91. Well, that's tea at Lords. 182-4. Just shading towards the Windies but spirited stuff from Bopara.

    I make that time for a snout and a cup of tea.

  92. ah, thaumaturge, ok now I get your drift - no worries, I'm all for pleasant surprises.

  93. 182-4 eh... not looking sparkling...

  94. Pietersen was out first ball to an absolute beauty, pitched on, good length, he was lucky to get an edge on it to be fair.

    Bit of digging in required in this final session methinks. Bopara 72, Prior 42. A sensible ton from both of them should steady the ship.

    My my, Lords does look lovely.

  95. Phew, Brendan Nash at square leg has just put Bopara down. Should've pouched it, the young man. Seems Edwards is bowling a clever middle & leg line to Bopara to tempt him into just such wrist-flickery away to that part of the field.

  96. Matt Prior is a cock. He's just lobbed one up to Simmons at cover off a long hop. Gone for 42. Just what Doctor Strauss didn't order, I imagine.

  97. Oh, is the cricket on?

    Interesting shit going down regarding moderation and deletion on the “Yeah, I know” thread ATM

    Worth a look if you can tear yourselves away from Lords' over tea.

  98. Hello people

    Right. I went to bed last night and the Untrusted was a stream-of-consciousness place to hang out and be silly in. And now we've got RULEZ?!!

    My whole life is constrained by rules. This was the only place I could let it all hang out the way I wanted to (Oer missus...)

    So, I spit on your RULEZ. Anarchy In The UK - OK?




  99. @BB:

    While you were sleeping, I think the general consensus arrived at was we don't really need the rules. Billp was in favour but most of the rest who expressed an opinion weren't.

    I think a daily chat thread and a more focussed thread (making a daily limit of 2) was where it got to.

  100. SwiftyBoy

    Ah OK. I hadn't read everything else, just this thread. So I am going off half-cocked (as usual.)

    (Note to self: no more double-entendres - you are not Frankie Howerd. )

    Julie Bindel does look good with the slap on, though. I don't suppose she would appreciate me saying that one iota, but hey.

    I have the kind of english rose complexion that does alright without makeup, freckly in the summer an all, but I need the mascara otherwise my eyes disappear. Need. Hmm. I guess Julie would have a lot to say to me about that too.

    I blame my mum, who wouldn't have got up to go to the toilet in the night without putting her lippy on. ;o)

  101. http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/6637/

    Here's a good piece on censorship. Seems cif is just taking its line from NL. Basically, we're all impressionable children who need protecting by the grown ups. All this fuss about moderation is just silly. We probably just got cranky cos we stayed up past our bedtime. One day we'll look back and thank Matt for protecting us from all the badness out there. Hope your all thoroughly fuckin ashamed of yourselves.

  102. Language, monkeyfish. Off to your room now!

  103. Just left a comment on the Bindel piece, which I actually really liked. I said:

    "Just for the record Julie, I thought this was a really lovely, honest, humane article.

    I suspect I'm not the only bloke who finds make-up just, well, weird.

    It covers up the lovely smells of human skin, ruins a decent snog and the worst thing is you always end up with lipstick all over your cock."

    But then I thought better of it and changed it, coz I'm like a total coward.

    Did anyone else notice the diametric opposite of total posting cowardice on the rape thread this morning? 'Androoster':

    "Moderator - you are a complete cunt for deleting my post."That's the Cif equivalent of charging into the machine guns with a bayonet.

  104. I used to play with Prior actually, Swifty, typical Saffa...

    Im up for ongoing General Chat + 2 articles at a time + ongoing youtube/music/video thread. I dont see what else we need.

  105. "Moderator - you are a complete cunt for deleting my post."

    Oh jesus. That is Charge of the Light Brigade material. I wonder how many seconds they lasted...

  106. Ally - lol! You should have left it.

  107. I am being modded again, ah well.

    I am feel a bit under the weather too.

    Perhaps when one swine feed kids porkies (and cows we know get BSE) then that sickly meal makes them sick?

    Ring a ring of rosies, pocketful of posies, atishoo atishoo .....?????

    Does anyone actually care?


  108. Ally - saw your post and commented on it. Lipfinity by Max Factor. No lipstick traces on the cock guaranteed! :D

  109. monkeyfish
    I'm cunting distraught mate.

  110. From the Spiked link

    "Smith has said that the blacklisted individuals had ‘clearly overstepped the mark’. Most of us do not care much for those who deny the Holocaust, assault immigrants, demonise medical researchers, preach the virtue of massacring infidels or claim that ‘God hates fags’. But it is in all our interests to defend the freedom to ‘overstep the mark’: the right to say, think and believe anything should be the cornerstone of any civilised society. "

    Sums it up really. On the other hand, though, nobody is prevented from hearing what Savage has to say - I heard his little rant broadcast on Radio 4 about how he wasn't even planning to come to the UK anyway - but it is stupid to whine on about being persona non grata and suing Smith while conveniently forgetting how hard it is for people to get into the States if they even have a similar name to one of the people on their "List".

  111. Bitterweed

    So you should be. In fact when we finally get around to moderating this site and, without wanting to seem presumptuous I think it's fairly clear I'm going to be the 'people's choice' as inquisitor general, you might find yourself in pre-mod for a lengthy spell. Nothing personal; "pour encourager les autres" sorta thing. But, since you're such a potty mouthed, seditious little fucker, I think it only fair.

    Rest assured, I'm a sucker for a bit of flattery and grovelling, so with a few well chosen platitudes you might soon have to move aside for that FatTony geezer.

  112. OK, sorry monkeyfish, you moon-faced pederast, I'll give it some thought.

  113. Bitterweed and Monkeyfish.

    That is enough off to bed witn NO supper!

    Any more and mummy will spank!

  114. For reasons currently known only to himself, andysays has just (06 May 09, 6:18pm) sown a small seed on the WDYWTTA thread.

    He would be grateful if a few kind souls would take the trouble to help him tend it over the next couple of days, with the occasional bit of weeding or watering where necessary. But whatever you do, don’t go trampling all over it with your big heavy boots.

    If the seed does well, the resulting plant may blossom in a little while into a flower which will bring us all great pleasure. Or it may just wither and die; let’s wait and see.

  115. moon-faced pederast.

    Classic insult there, bitterweed :o)

  116. andysays

    I just replied on that thread - were you referring to Nico - the Velvet Underground model foisted on them by Warhol? Or have I got the whole thing round my ear?

  117. I was referring to the Velvet Underground, with whom Nico sang for a while, but they're just an example.

    For now, it might be nice to hear where other posters got their names from.

    I know you, for one, have a nice story.

    Be gentle with my seed; it needs a little time to germinate.

  118. sorry monkeyfish, didn't mean to be rude...

  119. BB - Lipfinity from Max Factor? Is that not expensive? What's wrong with blowjobs from other blokes?

  120. andysays
    Nice idea. Those of us here that can't / won't make it there might like to partake... Strangely enough(some might discover): mines nowt to do with drink or drugs... actually a rather pompous and self-regarding reference to a line in Churchill's "big speach". It was the best I could come up with on a Sunday morning hangover, and after a major
    Any-one else ?

    They always want to know the score half way through I heard.

  121. Seed update.

    Germination not yet achieved.

    WDYWTTA thread currently slow moving.

    Hoping for more results this evening, maybe once the cricket’s over/ you’ve all had your tea/ the kids are in bed/ the booze starts to kick in (delete as appropriate).

    Give me a little help here, you lot.

  122. Bitterweed: I appreciate that there are some here who are unable to post (how could I forget; they're always going about it).

    I also know there are some who have "taken the pledge", and I'm not asking them to do anything that'll make them feel dirty in the morning.

    But that still leaves a few of you doesn't it?

  123. This comment has been removed by the author.

  124. On a completely different note, did anyone else know it's Teacher Appreciation Week in Nebraska ?

  125. Bitterweed: I've never heard of Teacher Appreciation Week, but it sounds like a good idea.

    Maybe you could tell me a little about it.

  126. Hey andy - here's one for you:


  127. Well
    In reality, all the parents have to give their kids' teachers a card and a little gift.

    It follows The Nebraska State Board of Education adoption of a resolution recognizing Nebraska’s 23,618 teachers and their dedication to students in honor of National Teacher Day, Tues., May 3 2005.

    Most people think it's just a huge pain in the ass/arse.

    I have only one source here. She has three kids, lives in Nebraska, and began divorce procedings last week.

    Hope this helps.

  128. Nice vid pandora, but simultaneously got Five Live commentary on. I presume Didiear Drogba wouldn't last five minutes with those particular fuck-hard voles ?

  129. Bitterweed: I’ve already submitted my homework, but I suspect she hasn’t yet had a chance to look at it.

    I was always led to believe that an apple for a teacher was a good way to get them on your side, but I’m not sure if it’s possible to send one in an e-mail.

    Is there anything you can suggest that might help me to overcome this problem?

  130. Bitterweed - heh,heh I guess not. Nevertheless it looks like Ballack's on his way to collect yet another silver medal....

  131. Yes andy, identify your teachers' weaknesses and exploit them without prejudice.

    Hope this helps too.

  132. pandora
    Ballack... not sure what happenened there...

  133. Pandora: Thanks for that.

    I’m not currently doing much youtubing, because the speakers on my computer have given up the ghost. Music videos lose a little when they turn into silent movies, don’t they.

    But that was... interesting. I hope I don’t run into those two tomorrow. Or ever.

    Bitterweed: I’m afraid that’s all Greek to me mate. Maybe if Kizbot were here she could translate, or whoever was name-checking Plutarch on the other thread.

    Or maybe you find another metaphor that made some sort of sense in English, which is the language I'm most comfortable with.

  134. The only other meaning I can find in your message is that anyone going through a messy divorce might be a bit busy right now. Maybe I can contact her through her lawyer, if anyone knows how.

  135. Bitterweed

    #sorry monkeyfish, didn't mean to be rude...#

    Nada...ya slack-arsed little gibbon

    Anyways, now the footballs reached it's all too monotonous finale...to paraphrase Orwell...

    "If you want a vision of the future, imagine goalless Man U/Chelsea finals stamping on a human face-forever"

    maybe we should turn to the prospects of a Merseyside team lifting any silverware in the foreseeable..only one option..

    The one, the only, the People's club, carriers of the eternal flame...Everton FC.

  136. Sorry andy, your 20:30 was too clever for me. Or something. Didn't get it anyway, so tried the direct approach.

    If I want sarcasm I'll talk to my vole.

  137. Oi. You lot have now got me so addicted that I have even (twice in one week!) logged in from 'ome to see what's going on and now I don't have a clue what you're all on about. I sense that checking Cif might provide some answers but don't want to crash the puter again.

    Clues on a postcard please.

  138. Oh yeah..here's one for ya


    and another..


    Sorry mate, just getting in the mood. Just heard I'm now second in line for a pair of tickets. Face value.

  139. "Oi. You lot have now got me so addicted that I have even (twice in one week!) logged in from 'ome to see what's going on and now I don't have a clue what you're all on about."

    I never use to go near CiF or ciffers after i left work until this damn site.

    I am considering making a new CiF persona just for a swift and brutal attack on certain CiF posters...

  140. monkeyfishJust wasted 10 seconds of my life playing one of your clips. That's one of those footie things, yeah?

    I'm a rugby girl myself and can't bear to watch grown men rolling around in pretended pain.


  141. Bitterweed: I’m not trying to be clever or sarcastic, just discreet.

    Maybe I should just come out and say what I mean. What's your advice?

  142. Jay - I have wine, I have fags, I have wireless and I'm going to regret this in the morning and feel really cheap as well as hung over.

    I think you should follow through on your plan. What would be the list? I can guess a few candidates.

  143. brusselsexpats, can you tell me why you offered me, specifically, that information on Amelia or Amy Fawcett?

  144. Bloody hell. 1-0. What a bummer.

    But on a lighter note, this has cheered me up no end.


  145. andysays
    Heh, about what? Really, I am that thick...

    "I have wine, I have fags, I have wireless and I'm going to regret this in the morning and feel really cheap as well as hung over."

    If *ever* this site neds a modus operandi, there it is.

  146. @BeautifulBurnout

    Ha ha, beauty !

  147. BB - I'm all for protests of that sort but all that crying and traumatisation sounds a bit victim culture to me. If they were 5, OK, but they were a bit old for that imho.

    Back in my day (OK, in Belfast in the 70s) it took a lot more than that from the MPs to make us cry!

    /end scarily tory-ish rant

    On a more serious note, any limitation to police powers these days is a good thing.

  148. Bitterweed - modus operandi: is that Latin for 'mission statement'?

  149. Bitterweed: No, you're not being thick.

    I interpreted your post at 19.49 as being directed to me, and having some connection to a question I asked on the other thread at 19.48.

    Now I look more closely at the times, I see that this is so unlikely as to be impossible. I’ve also checked google and seen that Teacher Appreciation Week is not a figment of your over-active imagination, but really exists.

    I’m sorry to have wasted the past one and a half hours of your life. I’m obviously being a bit TOO cloak and dagger.

    My question in plain English is this:

    I sent Montana an e-mail this morning. Can anyone suggest when she’s likely to have a chance to read and respond to it?

  150. On a completely different topic, someone(s) was talking about Emmylou Harris recently. As one of those who subscribes to the 'I hate country and bluegrass' movement, I must say that Wrecking Ball is a superb album (I thank Lanois). I also like Lyle Lovett and kd lang, FWIW, if they really count as country.

  151. thaumaturge

    It's the JR aspect that I am pleased about. The Kingsnorth operation was a complete farce. I was prosecuting in the mags court in Kent yesterday and chatting to some of the CPS bods there (incidentally, compared to the Met area, the rozzers and CPS in Kent are decent sorts) and they were taking the piss out of the Kingsnorth business themselves.

    They were saying that they got this "important" email in the lead up to it, asking for people to volunteer for overtime, and saying something like "fortunately, as the protesters are posting their intentions on the internet, we have advanced intelligence" - so of course everyone clicked on the site and it was all about face painting and clowns for the children and workshops and stuff. It was a running joke even before it happened. :o)

    I think it is a good thing to have a judicial review because it will, hopefully, make them look st00p1d enough that they will think twice before harassing little hippies for no reason in the future. I know they are "only following orders", but still...

  152. I believe it's also Greek for "potential sicky".

  153. Andy, your question was answered in plain English on the other thread ages ago. US FUCKING CENTRAL TIME! Capisce? Don't make me send for Fat Tony.

  154. thaumaturge
    Great album, Wrecking Ball, best track for me Sweet Old World.

    Here's the original, by the writer:


    Lo-fi but pretty nice nonetheless...

  155. Barcelona !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Yes !!!!!

  156. Very interesting, BB. I have a couple of friends who work for the county polis here and they are generally right-thinking - or rather, left-thinking - people (they aren't actually coppers) but was disturbed to discover that they consider that CCTV is a good thing.

    One of them admitted with a sort of wry disgust that of course all statistics etc are manipulated to placate a) the govt and b) the punters.

  157. scherfig: Thanks for that. I'm being a little too clever this evening, but I can rely on you to put me straight.

    I'll try being a little more patient.

  158. andysays
    Fuck me, no worries, thought I was having a relapse.

    Thanks for the clarification.

  159. You bastard, bitterweed - I'm on sopcast - 3 minute lag.

  160. ha, fuck the kings road pooves.

  161. andy, Montana said that she is usually in front of her computer at 6 pm Central time (London minus 6 hours). I don't know if she gets there at 6, or is there at 6, further to having arrived before 6.

    I think she is a teacher, so she might not be allowed (or have) access to personal email, etc., during work hours (speculation).

    She should be here around midnight London time, if not before.

  162. Whoahh! That was Bayern vs. ManU reloaded! Barca!

  163. andy
    indeed, the other thing:
    Montana is in Montana
    My mate is in Nebraska

    Those states all sound and look alike huh? Heh heh... no sweat bruv.

  164. Bitterweed - 'potential sickie' - not me, I'm a contractor! I just suffer through.

    I think I knew that was a Lucinda Williams song but nice to hear it - don't think I've ever heard her do it, so ta for that.

    I had the honour to meet Daniel Lanois once. I love his own music as well as the sound he creates for others, and very sadly my Acadie has now bitten the dust so I must replace it. He is one of the most intense people I've ever met. In a good but slightly scary way. In the way it would be if you met a god who could smite you with a single glance but who chooses not to.

  165. Does this place really have any connection to the list of banned/deceased posters on the right?

    That is, can someone or some people tell me what this place is "for" or "all about"?

    I ask, because it seems like a social club. That's fine, but I was given the impression earlier that it actually had a firm raison d'etre, based in overcoming or ameliorating heavy-handed Cif moderation and banning policies.

  166. Bitterweed: it's me that's having the relapse, or rather the extended flashback.

    I thought I was back in Berlin in the sixties trying to meet up with my contact.

    Teacher Appreciation Week, eh? That's such nonsense it had to be real. Even you couldn't make it up.

    I'm off to bed soon. If anyone "sees" Montana, please let her know I'd appreciate an answer to my e-mail, but I guess the combination of real life and time differences make patience even more of a virtue than normally.

    (Hangs head in shame and slinks of to bed)

  167. I don't think Montana's in Montana... her nick is a character from a Kurt Vonnegut novel. (I haven't read it though. )

  168. thaumaturge
    Sounds interesting. His production values were pretty influential in the 80s/90s. Williams strikes me as a loose cannon. And that particular song is about her brother's suicide... it really does ring particularly truly.

    For a "Raison d'etre", initially yes, for disaffected or banned CiF users, to moan about CiF moderation, etc... but as some people pointed out very early on... that ultimately has limited mileage...

  169. Awww... I get what you are talking about now andy. Simple mistake.

    Night night.

  170. I've been to Nebraska. Lincoln. People are very nice in a robotic midwestern sort of way, but you wouldn't want to mention the war, I suspect.

    Heard a probably highly exaggerated story from a long-distance truck driver that he fell asleep at the wheel upon entering the state of Nebraska and woke up at the far end when his truck hit the rumble strip due to some very slight deviation in the straightness of the road.

  171. Billp

    Yeah, that as well


    You should read it. Everyone should read it.

  172. thaumaturge
    also a contractor...
    but have to watch last night's The Wire now before this evening's episode...

  173. Thanks to everyone for their explanations and clarifications.

    I'm almost as embarrassed as I was when I realised I'd fallen for BTH’s smooth patter.

    Hope you're not all laughing at me :-(

  174. BB - which Vonnegut novel is that? I have the memory of a geriatric goldfish so it may even be one I've read. It's always seemed to ring a faint bell. I do like Vonnegut - one of the few US writers I enjoy!

    No damn cat - no damn cradle.

  175. nooooo! Well, I'm not laughing anyway. As well as being the Queen of Cod Psychology I am also the Queen of Opening My Mouth and Putting My Foot In It. (Not when I'm working though, thank f00k - mainly online. My forehead is so flat now I could balance a pint on it no problem).


  176. Bitterweed - don't have that problem as I don't have a telly. But people whose opinion on things I respect seem to like The Wire, so enjoy!

  177. Slaughterhouse Five I think. I know I should read Vonnegut, I have just never got round to it.

  178. Bitterweed, supposing you utter what most are thinking, why then the clinging to the list and other trappings associated with Cif and those banned?

    Isn't is all going to look a little "Hall of Wax - 1950s MPs Room" in a few more months?

    Shouldn't the thing be overhauled now, and renamed, say, British Social Club With No Distinguishing Features Whatsoever"?

    However, I disagree that the original idea has limited mileage. As long as Cif is censoring opinion, there is a market for a site that allows uncensored parallel dialogue.

    There just doesn't seem to be any demand HERE. I can only assume that the posters here don't really mind being censored on Cif. JayReilly obviously doesn't. Or he would have asked to get back.

  179. Ah yes, I have read that one!

    Start with Cat's Cradle though. My fave.

  180. andy, no see: scherfig

    I'm the numpty.

    I Vonnegut out of here...

  181. Montana is in the Mountain Time Zone, while Montana is in the Central Time Zone.

  182. billp - do you mean that Montana transcends time?

  183. Oh, Ashely Cole's face was a picture of dejection, what a marvellous marvellous sight.

  184. billp
    Fair comment. Can it exist withour CiF ? Don't know. I've given up going there, because the main problem is in wasting an inordinate amount of time - really I mean wasting time - responding angily to their poor quality articles.

    Here, there are enough shared references to continue passing the time of day without necessarily having to read the scads of insultingly dimwitted shite over there.

    Admitted, it's a bit rudderless without CiF's patronisng steer.

    But so what ?

  185. Thauma

    My list is quite small actually, but considering the targets' obssession with rummaging around the internet for evidence of my evil designs they shall remain nameless...

    "I'm almost as embarrassed as I was when I realised I'd fallen for BTH’s smooth patter."

    Im sorry but you'll take this one to the grave.

  186. "I can only assume that the posters here don't really mind being censored on Cif. JayReilly obviously doesn't. Or he would have asked to get back."

    I did ask, and i got: i'm back May 30th.

  187. Visca el Barcode

    God's in his heaven...


    You should read it, really. Don't get me wrong, when I think SciFi, I think fat IT consultants in lycra at a Trekkie weekend but he's not really SciFi and, anyway, he's to SciFi what Gram or Johnny Cash are to country etc. Get a copy before the libraries evaporate.

    Ask AllyF...he'll tell ya.

  188. Sitting here now in my pyjamas with a cup of cocoa.

    All I know about Nebraska is the album by Springsteen. Not usually a fan, but that sends shivers up my spine.

    The REAL Montana Wildhack is a character in Slaughterhouse 5, I think. She gets abducted by aliens, flown to their planet and put in a zoo with Billy Pilgrim, the novel’s hero, who’s a version of Vonnegut. The aliens want to watch them fucking. So it goes.

    Maybe someone brave should ask our Montana just why she chose that name. Let me know tomorrow.

  189. Bitterweed ... Vonnegut out of here ... *groan*

    Jay - it's OK, understand you might not want to publish yr list but we can guess who the top few candidates might be!

    From the great song named Candidate:

    I'm having so much fun with the poisonous people
    Spreading rumours and lies and stories they made up

    Some make you sing and some make you scream
    One makes you wish that you'd never been seen

  190. thaumaturge, no, I mean Montana transcends space. Time is unchanged, only the clock faces are different.

  191. Thaumaturge, very apt indeed...

  192. billpWhile I'm on my Bowie kick:

    He flexes like a whore
    Falls wanking to the floor
    His trick is you and me - boy

  193. Bitterweed, I don't know what. I'm only asking, because one of my own pet dislikes is illogical shite; misnomers and the like. I always suspect some kind of hypocrisy or "using".

    Apparently, my cif username (among the others listed) is being used as some kind of draw or justification for this site.

    I'm not worried about that. I'm just interested to know what that's all about.

    JayReilly, you did ask to get back, and you will be allowed back, and that makes you what? A person who has officially accepted the censorship and unfair moderation of Cif (it's a very small club). You've actually kissed the ring.

    Perhaps you should start a blog with like-minded people.

  194. Billy Pilgrim invents porn star Montana Wildhack to be his lovely wife because he's traumatised by his real war experiences as a POW in Dresden and his real wife Valencia's not much cop. I believe. Weird book, that.