18 May 2009

Daily Chat 18/05/09

Happy Victoria Day to our Canadian friends!  On this day in 1152, Henry II married Eleanor of Aquitaine.  In 1593, a warrant was issued against that nice Kit Marlowe after accusations of heresy by that bastard Thomas Kyd.  And in 1980, Mt. St. Helens in Washington erupted, killing 57 people and causing around $3,000,000,000 in damage.  Celebrating birthdays today:  Miriam Margolyes, Rick Wakeman, Chow Yun Fat, Yannick Noah, Dario Franchitti (or, Mr. Ashley Judd, as he's better known in the US), and Ricardo Carvalho.


  1. Good mornings all... have been away for a few days... gardening gardening gardening, even when it rained! The silly wind blew all the nice flower leaves away! bugger! :-)

    Working on the wisteria, trying to get her to stand straight... it has been 3 yrs since i planted her but still no flowers... any ideas guy?

    wishing you all a nice, bright and great day


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  3. Monday 18/05/09 – (7.45 am ish)


    A grumpy good morning – that bastard east wind is still there my Acers, are starting to show the signs of battle. We are loosing. The weather is sunny at the minute but a showery and windy few days are in prospect.

    Wow 29 years since a goodly chunk Mt St Helens sought to rejoin the heavens and took to the sky. I remember that news quite clearly. So what would I have been doing at about 8 am on this day in 1980?

    Well (having just looked it up) since it was a Sunday following a Saturday night during which I would have drank far too much as I always did then and still often do now I would have begun the day by shaking my head shivering and growling and howling like a demented wolf - excessive alcohol always made me horny first thing in a morning as it still does these days.

    Never to this day have I understood the link between drinking too much and a rise in libido. But plainly the population would have been somewhat smaller had it not been so. Questions of increasing desire and decreasing performance aside ………………

    It must be because booze, glorious booze, dehydrates the body (10+ pints of beer in always equals at least 11+ pints of piss out) thicker blood must concentrate the available testosterone with inevitable glorious Mt St Helena like result!

    Fucking hallelujah to Sunday Mornings, Sunday Afternoons, and the invention of Chapel so that the Welsh and others could get down to some serious rutting whilst the other kids were occupied!

    North of the Arctic circle is a dangerous place to be on a Sunday in high summer– a combination of Nordic bad behaviour with booze and 24 hours of daylight to hunt down the lass of your desire. Them Vikings sure had fun. It’s no better in the winter ‘ then cos it’s 24 hours of darkness. And women glorious women always look great silhouetted against the snow and a starlit sky.

    On the question of primeval urges I was reminded, when I posted a note somewhere else recently, that the late George Melley ( he of Rum Bum and Concertina fame) said in later years of his declining libido that it was ………(words to the effect) ……..” a fucking blessed release because it was liking being unchained from a fucking lunatic”. Thus there is even happiness to be had from a declining libido and increasing inability to get it up. RIP George – I have happiness to still to look forward!

    Back to this day 29 years ago - since my sometime wife was then carrying our third child for by then the seven and a half month - I think I would have been in serious but sensitive and considerate negotiations about how we should start that particular Sunday!

    Afterwards ……………. - since Thatcher had by then only been at No 10 for short while, I would have resumed the search for an answer to the same question I have asked myself almost every day since. How and why could people be so fucking soft in the head as to vote for a fucking cow like that.

    Was it really preordained that turkeys and Christmas were made for each other?

    I imagine the telly will have re runs of the explosion of Mt St Helena today – If you didn’t see it then or can’t remember it now watch the reruns – that was one fucking big chunk of a mountain skywards. One hell of a firework.

    If I can’t/don’t get to see the Northern Lights before my time is/was up – I should liked to have been placed on the top of said Mountain. What a fucking glorious cremation and final orgasm that would have been.

    Have a good day.

    Regards to all.

  4. room101.d3ox18 May, 2009 09:38

    @ room101.d30

    If only - FU

    Regards to/from deano30

  5. Jesus, I've just read that bizarre contribution from Denis MacShane. What a mealy-mouthed arsehole he is. An utterly shameless and hypocritical piece. "Open letter" indeed.

    And then there's Harriet Harman... well, the less said about her submission, the better, frankly. Her plea for a "chance to renew politics" rings a little hollow, if I was being generous. Court of Public Opinion, anyone?

  6. @ BB

    I confused Mt St Helens with Mt St Helena (above) because I never did get a piece about that bloody Baroness Helena Kennedy and the ECHR and Common Law together for you ATL piece on CiF.

    I have to do other things to day so sorry - it would have been another post to add to an incredible tally for a first published ATL piece.

    Congrats again.

  7. @ SwiftBoy

    I shall ready the hay cart and sharpen Madames blade.

  8. @deano:

    Personally I'm not sure Madame La Guillotine would be able to pierce the collective brass necks of this load of MPs. Might take something a tad more "robust".

  9. A1,

    Planted wisteria 5 years ago, - flowered second year and not since then. Big disappointment.

    Also if anyone knows how to grow Basil outside (in UK) would be grateful for tips. Have no trouble with Marjoram, Oregano, Mint, Sage, Thyme, Coriander, Parsley and Rosemary, but Basil defeats me. It has become a bit of an obsession of mine, along with battling the bastard bindweed. Is there a tougher variety out there somewhere?

  10. Morning all. Bloody awfull weather here in the North West but I'm not actually complaining as it has saved me from attending BBQs. I'm not a complete grinch but I really can't see the point of having a garden BBQ, when someones kitchen is approx 10 foot away?

  11. Swifty, i'd gladly disembowel the pair of them. I do look forward to seeing all the little weasels try and wriggle out from the mess and use it to their advantage, they will all be desperate to separate themselves from the group and stand out alongside the public in righteous condemnation.

    But scum like Harman are just finished, she will probably never taste power again.

    On the preceeding debates about feminism, i think the wider issue of identity politics is going to get interesting - the economic drought that is coming and the enormous dent to public funds is going to have a big impact. I dont think there will be the public will nor public money to maintain the divisive identity industry in it current form. People wont want scarce public funds channelled into innately discriminatory and divisive bodies which pitch one group against another to get that extra few pounds of funding. Obviously i'd be devestated to hear that Joe Harker was out of work, but i think it will be an interesting transformation for the whole industry.

  12. Hi Yeractual, just waiting for my basil to germinate...
    I've heard wisteria can be tricky but assured it will eventually flower. Anyway, if it's flowered once it'll flower again. I planted some a month ago.
    And bindweed- Yes, UK variety seems much tougher than this feeble Italian stuff- just gives up after a bit of pulling, thank goodness. The bane of my veg garden is couch grass- horrid stuff!
    Getting quite hot here- lovely!

  13. By the way everybody - that little bastard who was still a large and kicking lump in my my much loved sometime wife all those years ago when Mountain St Helens took off?

    He is ( I very much hope) this very day traveling back to La Paz in Bolivia from a trip to the Amazon with his slightly older brother and friends.(All of them( I know the dads of the others) conceived from inebriated sperm)

    It is nontheless disgraceful how young people aren't down at the pit these days. No wonder the country is to the dogs with working class swanning around the world.

    And if MAM finds his way on to this thread and posts that that is down to Thatcher then god help him I shall seek to put some volcanic up his bum and it won't be bottled water.

    Fuck off MAM (before you even get here you are not wanted here)

  14. @ SwiftBoy

    Oh I should at least have to try with Blunkett.

    I could not resist pulling the leaver whilst whispering in his ear - " It's Sheffield Steel tha 'nows"


  15. @jay:

    I must admit I read that "Lifestyle/gender/women" piece about the unholy struggle for "control of feminism(c)" with a big wide smile. I particularly enjoyed the definitions of the various Judean fronts, popular or otherwise, which rounded the article out.

    Though they did leave out one particularly large group of splitters. The "meh I could care less" faction that most women I know seem to belong to.

    As for our elected representatives... the usual herd mentality seems to be prevailing here, safety in numbers and all that. But I am enjoying watching them rushing around headlong in flight, this way and that, bellowing and raising huge clouds of dust. Won't save them in the end, though.

  16. @ SwiftBoy

    I'm not insensitive to a possible charge of cruel treatment of the disabled. In my defence...........

    I would have also whispered in Blunketts ear -

    "..I know you are blind you bastard would you like me to give you a commentary as she comes........100, 99.......we can stop and have a cup ofg tea at 50 you want and then we can finish it off. Rest of us get a bun you know"

    "Now then Hattersley endpiece about that dog thas been abusing............" No perhaps we'll save him for another day.

    How fucking absurd that Roy is now seen as left wing! I like his writing so I might let him off. And he was kind to Buster who tried to shag one of HM's Swans if I recall correctly.

    That'll learn yer to forget yer dads boiling at the hands of the gas board you fucking bastard!

  17. What article was that Swifty?? You got link?

    I thought Cleggs article quite good actually, and rather than bandwagon jummping the Libdems have at least been trumpeting this stuff for a while.

    Saw a mate of mine at the weekend, he is still planning to vote new labour. I was gobsmacked. He just feels it the lesser of two evils, but shocking all the same.

  18. @Jay:


    The title makes it sound more salacious than it is, sadly.

    BB and Montana were chatting about it here the other night, I think.

    My mate and I were talking about our voting intentions last week. Seems a lot of people have a similar problem - who the hell can you vote for now?

  19. They had flowers when I bought them!! then nothing since... but found this on good google: I never pruned them though, too scared to make things worse!!

    good stuff here:



  20. **And if MAM finds his way**

    He better not as I am waiting for him with a full buccket of ****!!! :-)


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  22. Who's taking bets on the outcome of Speaker Martin's emergency speech to the House?

    "I'm sorry and I'm going now, forgoing all pensions and ongoing perks" 1,000,000 - 1

    "I'm sorry and I'm going at the next election, forgoing etc" 500,000 - 1

    "I'm going at the next election, to the House of Lords, pension etc. intact" 2-1

    "I'm needed to oversee the process of reform until the next election, whereupon I'll head off upstairs to the Lords, pension etc intact" 2-1

    "We must find the person who leaked the expenses files and prosecute them fully under the law" Evens

  23. @ SwiftyBoy
    I'm not insensitive to a possible charge of cruel treatment of the disabled. In my defence...........

    I would have also whispered in Blunkett's ear -

    "..(heavy breathing)....I know you are blind you bastard would you like me to give you a commentary as she comes........100, 99.......we can stop and have a cup of tea at 50 if you want and then we can finish it off nicely. Rest of us get a bun you know, but we thought it would be daft to give you one - whats that Dave waste not want not a bun for your season ticket - nah they were tossers an all"

    "That'll learn yer to forget yer dads boiling at the hands of the gas board you fucking bastard! Tha knows the rules round here Blunky - yer shag a tory yer finally gets what's coming to yer"

    We in Yorkshire are not insensitive. It is not right that a man should leave this world without a ringing endorsement of his lifetime’s achievements in his ears. The drop on the rope is too short and quick a man need time to digest what is being said to him. For Blunkett the count would start at 100 but for someone more or less creditable it could start at say 150 or 50 as the case warrants

    I don't want BeutifulBurnout and others saying we have simplistic solutions to hard legal problems in Yorkshire. Justice unlike law does not require a slavish following of the same rules of Law for all. The ends may indeed need a degree of consistency but as demonstrated above Madame can cater for diversity including disability and gender.

    Harriet Harman /Kennedy/ and their sisters in arms would for the sake of public decency be allowed to wear rubber knickers. In the case of Jaqui Smith over her head for we must not loose sight of the relatives needs.(I do not suggest that the Home Sec’s husband has a rubber fetish – the Guardian failed in its duty to advise its readers the titles of the DVD’s we had paid for.)

    It’s no good running to Tuscany Polly they do it from lampposts there and woman with their skirts round their heads whilst hanging from the ankles is not a pretty sight. Please make sure you take plenty of clean knickers when you go.

    "Now then Hattersley endpiece about that dog thas been abusing............" No perhaps we'll save him for another day.

    How fucking absurd that Roy is now seen as left wing! I like his writing so I might let him off. And he was kind to Buster who tried to shag one of HM's Swans (or was it a duck in a Royal Park?) if I recall correctly.


    { Again a sorry to Montana I forgot to log on via Gmail above so I couldn't edit after I caught the launch button in error. More importantly I will be unable to pick up my litter later - please to forgive}

  24. My mate and I were talking about our voting intentions last week. Seems a lot of people have a similar problem - who the hell can you vote for now?

    According to CiF last week, the Green Party....

    I think I would be physically and morally unable to vote tory or nulab, so it's probably going to be the lib dems for me.....or perhaps I will just not bother - end result much the same in any case.

  25. I may well be writing just as much rubbish as the non lamented and now departed billp, but because it's below the radar and being said in a noisy smoky room with lots of urgent and interesting news passing about I'm all most invisible. But that don't make me a mole or a troll or anyone with malicious intent.

    Perhaps it’s because I have got one of those ugly shapes that makes things radar deflecting whilst ugly voices are radar attracting. They certainly spotted MAM which is good news for the longer term vitality and health of this place.

    It might be that I have too much time on my hands and/or that I am a sado but that don't make me a sociopath or complete and utter nutter

    A break in the showers and the dogs need a walk.

    Now what do think room101d30

  26. Fuck our sleazy MPs- We need more reaction to Skelton's Bilderberg piece- like, why doesn't The Guardian take Bilderberg's secret meetings seriously? These guys ARE the New World Order and deeply sinister and we must demand to know why they are allowed to get away with it.
    I should be writing this on Cif, I know, but I can't and I'm fucked if I'm going to ask to be let back...
    Sorry, guys, this is a rant but we should all take it very seriously...
    OK, back to the vegetables...

  27. Cheers for that, A1. Good stuff. Will give it a go.

  28. @ room101d30x

    For those who may not know - David Blunkett's father was scalded to death in an accident at work whilst working for the local gas board.

    That is unless I've got my wires completely crossed.

  29. "I think I would be physically and morally unable to vote tory or nulab, so it's probably going to be the lib dems for me.....or perhaps I will just not bother - end result much the same in any case."

    My feelings exactly. I could not physically vote newlab, and would feel dirty and disgusting voting tory, so i feel i only have one option and that is libdem, another neolib bunch of privatising thieves. That is the state of our democracy - risible and insulting.

    Swifty - think you got the odds about right, his response will take the traditional newlab shape - deny any wrongdoing, refuse to apologise, the party does not make mistakes, people do not understand, but there will be no resignation and woe betide whoever it was that leaked the stuff. Shameless vermin.

  30. Can't be bothered with vegetables... I can not afford to kill so many slugs and snails in one season; the buggers all everywhere as soon as it starts to rain!!! I feel terrible when i see them dead after hiding some slug killers under the plants/flower beds for them.. the little ones are worst! I dont bother with their off springs until they have grown to semi-teenagers first!:-)

    Yeractual, I will also have ago this Autumn & Winter too and hopefully some flowers next year! will keep you posted...good luck.


  31. @ JR

    "On the preceeding debates about feminism, i think the wider issue of identity politics is going to get interesting - the economic drought that is coming and the enormous dent to public funds is going to have a big impact. I dont think there will be the public will nor public money to maintain the divisive identity industry in it current form."

    I could'nt agree more Jay!

  32. @ anon (A1)

    "I can not afford to kill so many slugs and snails in one season; the buggers all everywhere as soon as it starts to rain!!! "

    When it stops raining try a saucer of beer ( if you can bear to part with it) it leads to humane end for slugs and slimies.

    I always drink mine quickly when I hear that the uber creep Mandelson is heading North - just in case I might be called upon to give it up in the greater interests of the people.

    How I would like to see that bastard with his mate Blair struggling in a lake of Yorkshire ale with their lips sewn together so they could not drink it. After a day or so, to soften the neck tissues as it were.........then to Madame to round of the entertainment right royally.


  33. @ Yeractual

    See my suggestion above for a suitable reward for that greasy ex public schoolboy with Unionist antecedants.

    I don't think "they" were Republicans but again I may have a crossed wire NI politics was always behond me.


  34. room101

    lol! i will try!

    did any of u guys watch *have i got news for you* last friday!?

    classic... on iPlayer



  35. @ anneten42 & Bru & BB et al(who may be having a busy day and have yet to arrive)

    We are not uncivil in the White Rose County - Kizbot would have been allowed to make the tea had Blunkett required it.

    In any event the County's wealth was based on wool so you would be assured of a good choice of shops at which you could stock up on the necessary equipment for the knitting.

    I am so sorry to let myself down in your eyes and to reveal myself as sexist but in Yorkshire executions are mens work.

    Best W & Kind Regards

  36. @ Montana

    You gentler Americans have not yet the history to debate the merits and demerits of the dispatch. But you would be most welcome to come and watch

    Gas? - Electricity? (too expensive in the UK and far far too quick) and they leave an unpleasant smell.

    Bullets - travel quicker than speed of sound and would not meet the requirements of the ECHR - Blunkett would dead before the complete reading of the charges and judgment had been read. That's not fair - it would therefore be unjust.

    I do not wish that Ms Blairy/Booth QC should see another chance for a brief to take to the ECHR. There are so many lawyers in the House that we have t get through it would be quite improper and regrettable were they to be given false hope.

    Best W and regards - I do hope that your Monday with the kids you work was not too stressful. I will send you some Yorkshire chalk for Xmas it can be fashioned into missiles to be thrown at the little bastards, whilst writing on the black board. White boards and pens just don't float my boat in quite the same way.

  37. @deano/101:

    I'm feeling like someone on the train overhearing half of a mobile phone conversation i.e. I'm missing the half of the conversation which you're responding to.

    So what you're saying isn't making a massive amount of sense to me at the minute, mate. Apart from your dislike of D Blunkett (agreed), Mandelson (yep, again) and Blair (yep, again, again).

    Anyway... Windies 167-8, trailing by 92. It can only be a matter of time. Chanderpaul the only fly in the ointment. But still, only a matter of time...

  38. Apropos of nothing, but this is an interesting article, I think.


    Touches on a subject I've thought about before, and brought home to me whenever I've been picking my daughter up from school - the unseen role which grandparents are taking in keeping families afloat by looking after the kid(s) while parent(s) go out to work.

    My missus and I have never been in a position to use our parents in this way (because of geography and mortality). But we have plenty of friends who do. Some do it out of financial necessity, some because they're single, while some do it for career reasons, as if you could somehow have a child in the same way you have a cat, and then just pick up your career where you left off, plonk the kid on granny, and back to the old life you go.

    No one ever said having kids was easy, but there are apparently a lot of people out there who seem to think it's OK that their parents should be left "holding the baby", so to speak.

  39. Did they follow on? Is this their second? If so looks in the bag, weather permitting...

  40. @jay:

    It's all over mate. We've won by an innings and 82 runs. Pretty comprehensive stuff.

    That'll be the Wisden Trophy to us, thanks.

  41. Wisden Trophy? A hastily arranged 2-test series played in May? It's an absolute disgrace to call it that.

  42. What was our total and who made what scores centuries and 50s wise? And who stood out in our bowlers?

  43. @jay:

    In a nutshell...

    Eng 569 for 6 dec (Cook 160, Bopara 108)
    Windies 310 all out, 176 all out following on. Anderson 9 wkts in the match, Bresnan 3, Onions 3, Broad 3.

    Great effort from the lads - against a fairly dejected-looking Windies side, fair to say.

  44. Not a bad result at all...

  45. @ thaumaturge

    I think it was you who was kind enuf to suggest a read of the red and the black the other day ( I will get around to it one day I promise) If so I ought as an act of shared decency give you a recommendation to accompany the Guillotine entertainment

    I think I sense an English Grad (our lass were one so often not only do such ladies walk nicely they turn a niece phrase too and I think I spotted that) so I ought to advise to bring a book or two.

    Don't bring ".........your mam and dad fuck up you up....." We are not much into poetry but that bastard librarian had an interesting private life in Hull

    As it happens the town was Kingstown upon Hull and I am pleased to report that in the Civil War the town was one of the Kings armouries - when his mob arrived to pick up the gear the local Yorkshire lads told em to fuck off we'd joined Cromwell. They shut the town gates on the bastards following a meeting in a local pub. (The pub’s still there and sold fine beer last time I was there)

    I guess you along with sartecastic will have read Simone's efforts (I understand that Jean thought that she had an extraordinary feminine odour about her that could attract some lunatics like me from a county away - and I do mean very strong smell and it wasn't from her feet)

    I danced with a French lass at my nephews wedding down in Basque France a few years ago - well I almost fell in love all over again. I always send her Christmas greetings through my French niece. I am jelly at the sound of a french accent in a fine lass.

    Yorkshire men will tell you the end of civilization began with the electric toothbrush
    and it was complete by the time they invented vaginal deodorant.

    You will have read "..............and mother died yesterday or were it day afore...." Albert always seemed a funny name for North African but there you go.

    And "...........only connect.........." If, If only more people would .

    Kerouac many girls find too heavy or confusing- but I am as I have been all my post puberty life a road fan ( its no accident that I still am on the road quite literally) - I have been both metaphorically and literally to Big Sur. The latter the more enjoyable than the former.

    For the life of me I cannot recall the content of Dr Sax the copy I had had been imported from the states (not then published in Uk) I loaned it and it never came back. Might have been suitable reading around the Guillotine but I'm not sure..

    So what to suggest whilst we while away the time as Madame’s basket is emptied from time to time.

    Guess you will have devoured The Ragged Trouser Philan... - but did you know that it is rumoured that the TUC still have the original manuscript?

    So what about that the wonderful Dr Minor... the immortal and most wonderful troubled Surgeon of Crowthorne. {Pay attention Montana he was an American albeit troubled by the Celts Anneten}

    And if you are in private communication with Montana about good reads - I think the title is different in the USA (if she's not already read it)

    If you yourself have read it bring the copy and lend it to a neighbour you can always discuss the story as the blade rises yet again to the top of the mast. It really ought to be more widely read.

    I won’t suggest “ Cod” but Alan Johnson was much impressed with it when I gave him a copy for xmas a few years ago. An understanding of world history politics all by understanding the significance of cod fish – quite a book reall. When he gave copies of it to some ex Hull Trawlermen the next year it made him very welcome here – so no Guillotine for Alan Johnson

    For any one else I have not yet mentioned. It's free to execute in Yorkshire but you take yer own fucking dead home.

    We will look after Blunkett but next time around we are not wasting our coal cremating you fucking foreigners.

    @ room101d30x what you mean it’s a lot of reading - I have to mention it now ‘cos I’m sure to get banned soon.


  46. @ SwiftyBoy

    Worry not my friend - if you have time(one day) take a cut and paste job of today’s complete thread above ( you might have to do it bits) and paste it into a Word document - print it out and you might (you might not) find yourself smiling.

    You might find yer’sen furious but I hope not

    I ought to tell you the story of when I was last at Headingly (the only test I ever went to) a couple of years ago.

    We had my son’s stag weekend back in Leeds to coincide with the Test all the younger men went to Headingly dressed as nurses about 18 of them.

    I was the fucking lunatic standing on my seat entertaining the crowds by necking em in one - that wonderful fucking crowd had some extraordinary wit.

    I wear a full face beard it is white -the Headingly crowd congregated in the lunatics stand (I’m sure you will know where that is) sang as I sank my pints in one, standing on seat facing the massed ranks behind me, surrounded by men dressed as Nurses. They sang in full voice

    "........Shipman.....Shipman....... Shipman give us a song ..."

    First time I ever pissed myself at sporting event - oh what fucking fun. What fucking wits every time thereafter when I went for a piss some young man or other rushed up to me and pressed another pint in my hands

  47. Cor. Cameron's calling for parliament to be dissolved and a general election called. And he means *now*.

  48. Afternoon Ciffers

    Just got back from the seaside - only work unfortunately, no time for Brighton Rock or fish and chips on the pier.

  49. Speaker Martin: "profoundly sorry for letting people of UK down very badly indeed".

    Calling the PM and party leaders to meet with him in the next 48 hours to discuss what should be done about MPs' expenses.

    Oh boy, he sounds very contrite indeed, he's got that "sorry voice" on.

    He's been asked about the possibiliy of the motion of no confidence. He's not getting drawn into it, preferring to cite technicalities to put it off.

    A very bad tempered exchange currently going on in the House of Commons.

  50. Martin's live in the House now. Pitiful performance. And he's not gonna jump, or even allow himself to be pushed. Doesn't even want a debate on the no confidence motion. Although, on the bright side, apparently everything will be sorted out by the House and the party leaders at some later date. Hoorah!

  51. @scherfers:

    They're really sticking the boot in aren't they, those pesky MPs. Looks like they've found in him the fig leaf they need to cover their own shame...

    Most interesting thing I've seen in the HoC for a *long* time.

  52. Yeah, swifty, boot in for party political reasons, but none of them are looking good. Just what the Great British Public needed - the whole fuckin' lot of them looking like the absolute tossers most of them undoubtedly are.

    No quick debate for these guys, they'll hang on til recess and hope it'll all go away. Pathetic.

  53. @scherfers:

    Adam Boulton's scathing about that performance. "Woeful", "playing for time", "low point in our parliament", "shambolic" - Martin was having to refer to the Clerks for guidance on parliamentary procedure etc.

    I reckon he's a goner on the back of that - and soon, too.

  54. Very amusing - he started by saying that it couldn't be debated, then had to ask his clerks why.

  55. There's a queue of MPs lining up now to stick the boot in, Paul Flynn (Lab) calling his performance "abysmal" etc. "Dead speaker walking".

    Seems there's a counter-briefing going on at the same time though - 2 supportive MPs have both said Martin wasn't forcing the MPs to fill in the expenses forms with claims for *insert Tory (not Labour) dodgy claim here* Clever in one way, I suppose, highlighting "moats" and omitting to mention "porn", but utterly nauseating in most other ways.

  56. I say again - Michael Martin is a goner on the back of that woeful performance.

    And he will be gone in a week.

  57. Point Of Order18 May, 2009 16:45

    BBurnout said...
    Afternoon Ciffers

    actually thats Unts

  58. Greetings mod watchers!

    Do any of you lot have any plausible conspiracy theories as to why the Mary Midgley article on CiF got closed to comments? It was hardly as if the debate was getting heated or anything (on the contrary it could have done with being spiced up a bit!). I asked the same question on the "What do you want ..." thread but .. NO ANSWER!

    .. doo-doo-doo-doo doo-doo-doo-doo....

  59. room101.d30x18 May, 2009 17:30

    What we see here and above and throughout the thread these last few days is that we who call in on this thread, see what we want to see hear what we want to hear - and precious little else.

    Twas ever thus for that in truth is how that once fine party the Labour Party came unraveled at the seams.


  60. sartrecastic18 May, 2009 17:50

    Just had a rather unpleasant exchange with my mother about the nature of sexual identity.

    She doesn't much like "the gays". While she usually complains that I do not talk to her enough today the complaint was that I was argumentative, when I was, y'know, just saying. I mean if one is going to bring up sexual identity in the ranty way one usually shouts at the television when something disdainful has appeared on it, there really are only three things one can do -

    i) say nothing, which will get you grief and which you don't really have the self-control for
    ii) agree, but you have more integrity than that
    iii) disagree, which will probably result in the violent dispossession of the objects you prize most for the duration of the week.

    now I am sorry to bring my juvenile grievances to the table here but I really do wish sometimes I was politically apathetic so my mum wouldn't give me dirty looks every time I expressed my disapproval of the institution of marriage or lack of contempt for "the gays".

    what i'd like to know is why so many people seem to have a problem with their views being challenged... ever. it's like dining with a creationist every evening. which reminds me of the time i expressed doubt as to the veracity of the christian religion and the legitimacy of the state over a pizza hut with my aunt. unfortunate to say the least.

    i mean, it's not as if i'm dangerous or anything, is it? is it really that much of a threat to discuss things? why so scared of a little debate? never mix politics and family i suppose.

    Anyway, I believe someone mentioned me not a long way up the thread; what should I be reading?

  61. @ point of order - so she did.

    @ BB - So its good evening BB I a m so sorry you had no time for the rock - but did you ever read Brighton Rock?

    I have a feeling I did but I would be damned if I had to tell you what it was about.

    I hope you have had calls of congratulations from your colleagues and friends for your week ends stupendous achievement ATL this week end.

    You have already had my applause and several shouts of encore and I dislike repeating myself so you will forgive me if say no more on the subject.

  62. @ BB - I change mind you deserve it in triplicate (since I gather you only get about £80 - small reward for so much effort)

    Regards deano30,room101d30,room101d30x

    Added to a Gold Star+ and a 10 out 10 already given I have no higher praise to award.

    It's not quite a double 1st from Oxbridge but then I never got one of those either.

  63. Thunder and lightening in the area - a dongle on a mast outside a caravan not a good idea so its over and out from me and from him till the storm passes.

  64. Hi there - signing in.

    Had a busy time - had dental appointment to make sure I hadn't damaged the roots of my teeth in last week's fall. X-rays all fine - teeth OK.

    Then had to have my new mobile phone checked out as it had also gone on the blink since accident. That's OK as well.

    Think I'm going to see Angels & Demons tomorrow evening. It opened last week and I am so curious...

    If not tomorrow then Wednesday. Thursday is a public holiday over here and a lot of people make the bridge by taking Friday off as well. I may mosey off to Cologne. Been a while since I was there. Love the Romano-German museum and the shops.

    Over and out - going to have a plate of pasta....


    PS - York is originally a Viking city isn't it? Thought so - explains a lot. I'll get me coat.

  65. @ sartecastic

    ( I left you a note of appreciation somewhere above but its easy lost in the noise and the smoke)

    "what i'd like to know is why so many people seem to have a problem with their views being challenged... ever. it's like dining with a creationist every evening. which reminds me of the time i expressed doubt as to the veracity of the christian religion and the legitimacy of the state over a pizza hut with my aunt. unfortunate to say the least."

    If I may humbly say enjoyed your post suspect another Eng Grad with such well crafted constructions.

    May I ask was it you that posted a link to Mozart's theft from the Vatican recentlty - thats an obscure way of saying I can't spell "The Missi......" but I do think possiblyit is the most beutifull noise since the creation of the world.

    I had forgotten just how haunting it was. I am glad I was never a Catholic (for all sorts of reasons) that music may have persuaded me to stay - but I would for ever have been brassed off with Popes for trying to keep it under wraps.

    And that mum? buy her some Alan Bennett for Christmas and remind her there is always a cracker under the settee.

    And start talking in a loud voice on the telephone to a non existent listner - this might be a good start

    "...........and how many pairs of clean knickers do they have to bring to your hostel.........really................whats that? There not are they I thought they weren't allowed to work with old people"

    Kind regards and best wishes deano30

  66. @ Bru - York is indeed a Viking town the men with horns came up the Humber and then the Ouse.

    They left DNA but not strong enough for us to lay claim to the Icelandic's fish or the Norwegians oil and gas but we are working on it.

    We must have a source of wealth to maintain our Sons and daughters in the future. We can keep the rest of the barbarian hordes in the UK away from our borders by chucking lumps of coal at them. Scargill always knew it would come to our aid.

    The rest? well they may just have to become the *1st State. At least that would give Montana easy access no pasport required.

  67. @ Sartrecastic

    I suppose it might be thought irresponsible of me to suggest talking on the phone as I did without inquiring of your mum's general health blood pressure/ heart etc.

    I do hope you don't think me reckless - please note I did not suggest you played the "Missi...." loudly while talking to your imagined conspirator on the phone.

    I think that that might just be OTT and I would not wish anyone to consider me indifferent to the needs of pensioners I am one myself.

  68. Anyone got any ideas as to why comments are now closed on Frank Fisher's article? It wasn't up that long and as far as I can tell from a quick glance, was hardly causing a cyber punch-up?

    I thought it was rather pertinent at the moment.

  69. Great - rain stopped at last may be chance between the clouds to allow the dogs to stretch their legs.


  70. bru, it'll take a lot of clicks at a penny a time to cover GMG's £83,000 a day losses.

  71. sartrecastic18 May, 2009 19:16


    haha i am flattered but i'm sadly not an english graduate. in fact i hate english. i'll be starting university in september though. should i be excited?

    i will have to try that phonecall, I think i have a person in mind I can have that actual conversation with in all earnesty; it will at least reduce the weirdness and increase the probability of mirth.

    and yes miserere mei deus was me. i feel the same about religion or at least catholicism when i hear it. if i'd been exposed to a few renditions of that as a child instead of dry evangelical hymns perhaps i would have been less inclined to the heretical. (reading the content of the psalm almost ruined it for me though)

  72. Scherfig

    Is that how much they're losing? I wonder eventually if the news will be accessed just by going onto the Reuters or BBC websites. I had heard the Guardian was due to lose hundreds of journalists but they are probably not the only paper with problems.

  73. bru, that figure is from Guido quite recently, and it's probably not too far off. Mind you, I believe their annual tax bill is somewhat smaller than mine, so that must help a bit :o)

  74. York was originally Roman, Then known as Eboracum Then the angles came and called it Eoforwic, after that came the Vikings and called it Jórvík(pr Yaarvic). 'York' evolved from this.

    Even today They pronounce it Yaark in Yorkshire( S Yorks anyway!).

    This comes from visiting the city every year for five years. We didn't just go shopping!

  75. sartrecastic18 May, 2009 19:43

    @room101, you're right (and i haven't refreshed the page since my last comment so i'm just going to go out on a limb here), she is due an operation soon after all, and i would like to keep all my limbs intact and so on.

    perhaps simply leave humorous fortune cookies in various nooks around the home containing brief jokes mocking, in subtle ways, assorted reactionary opinions.

  76. The Vikings were quite active here is S Wales. The two islands in the middle of the bristol channel are called steep holm and flat holm.

    Since the Dark Ages, Flat Holm has been a retreat for monks and since then has acted as a sanctuary for Vikings, Anglo-Saxons, silver miners, smugglers and cholera victims. Fortified in Victorian times and again in World War II it is perhaps most famous for receiving the first ever radio message across water by Marconi in 1897.

    Its very small only 45 ha (86 acres)

  77. Thats two wet and smelly dogs and two very wet feet - time to buy some new walking boots.

  78. Well, I see you have all been very busy since I last checked in. Probably too much to catch up with quickly.

    Had eye surgery this morning, and have had a houseguest, so no time to catch up last few days. Am very bored with recovering-from-surgery bit, so went down pub for a while this evening. Against all orders, of course.

    Beat men at pool. :-) (Well, man.)

  79. General question - what are Acers? They keep coming up in conversation.

    Could not bring myself to read Harman's piece today.

    Yeractual - can't help you with the wisteria or bindweed, but have you used the marjoram for coq au vin? Bloody fucking amazingly superb.

    And also - your linked article re Blair & the prize money - read that in the waiting room before surgery and almost puked before the whole thing had started! Started shouting at nurses & surrounding fellow patients....

    Will post now and carry on wading through ... stamina is fading though.

  80. This comment has been removed by the author.

  81. @room101d30 - sorry, am too tired to respond at length. Have read most your list (including a research paper on de Beauvoir), but Kerouac: I didn't find him "too heavy or confusing", just a misogynist. And I don't throw the term around lightly.

    Have the same visceral "ugh" against Cat Stevens, or whatever he's calling himself these days.

  82. Thaumaturge

    We seem to be couple of crocks here - you with your eye surgery and me with my choppers.

    Hope it isn't too sore - treat yourself to something nice when you get the patch off.


    P - I reckon Yorkshire should declare independence.

  83. This comment has been removed by the author.


    “haha i am flattered but i'm sadly not an english graduate. in fact i hate english. i'll be starting university in september though. should i be excited?”


    I am too old to be offended or in any way personally upset. But I am now going to take a little time to prepare what I hope you will read as a mature and considered response that is not intended to be in any way patronising.

    I very much hope that people with the experience of Annten42 and BB etc will see this note of mine and read your comments above and recognize that my concern is going to be about (if you are truly a young person or even if a fully mature person ( but perhaps still inexperienced in the dangers of "thread communications between strangers")

    At this junction suffice it to say that I have a granddaughter of 20 yrs - had she posted what you did above I would have been pointing out to her the dangers. It would have been the same if I had a grandson of 20 so do not consider that I am guessing your gender or that I am in way sexist.

    I am going to remove myself from the thread have something to eat and think about how best to reply to your, what I respectfully consider, inappropriate post content. .

    When I make my FINAL post to you - I hope you will see a kind concern, some funny angle, and perhaps some knowledge that you may not already have in your possession.

    I can tell you now that if you are still at school in the 6th Form take a print of my reply and take it and discuss it with your tutors and advisers. You and they may both learn something from it.

    My next comment when I post will start with

    I AM NOT..."Christopher Anthony Woodhead (born 1946, Edmonton, London)"

    If you DO NOT KNOW WHO THIS PERSON IS and have no essays t write tonight you can start to google the history and standing of this individual.

    You may/may not know that this man was once Chief Inspector of Schools and (if memory serves me well) an English Grad of exceptional talent

    However, as a human being and as a man, his conduct left a lot to be desired. In particular his alleged private relationships with a female 6th Form Student.

    I say this because stalking/phising/grooming etc are constant dangers on threads like this. That it attracts the articulate and worldly wise does not make 100% safe. It also attracts some very sophisticated and cunning minds.

    I make my reputation safer by this public posting. If as result I offend you please forgive me but there is an ill considered aspect to your above post. You should understand that my reputation is less important to me than my personal integrity.



  85. @ thaumaturge said

    Worry not of no significance

    I hope you will see my reply to Sartrecastic above and keep an eye on the matter.

    Be assured I have almost completed my learning experience on this thread which I found wonderful and lots of fun.

    But within the next couple of days I will be finished here and gone. I have a high regard for many who post here but I am not entirely comfortable. No big deal.

    All of us have only so many anecdotes worth even considering telling my stock is nearly complete.

    My silly sense of humour not to everyone's taste. The Yorkshire bit not really serious _ I have more in common with many from S Wales etc than many in Yorkshire.

    I like all peoples but I struggle with folk from Nott's but only the miners and that's because of 1926 and 1984

    Acers are really graceful shrubs - often known as Japanese Maples the finest ones are known as lace leafs. They are often most spectacular in the autumn I'll find picture link before I finally leave this thread in a couple of days or so.

    Very best wishes to you and all your close friends here if we do not come across each other again. Deano 30

  86. Swifty - could you please e-mail me? Go to my profile. Thanks!

  87. sartrecastic18 May, 2009 22:39

    Ahhhhh don't worry; I'm much too sensible to be taken in by some undoubtedly balding lonely old man scratching the dead, flaked skin that is the result of his untreated psoriasis into the grooves of his stylish Macintosh keyboard as he tries to regale me with his extensive knowledge of 21st-century post-punk revival bands and love of Jay And Silent Bob Strike Back.

    I am sure if SwiftyBoy or Hank or JayReilly have any inclinations to that end (all apologies if you are offended by my mentioning you personally but it is merely for hypothetical illustration) that it will become very obvious to all involved, and hopefully any sort of unfortunate entering-into of any kind of indecent relationship can be avoided.

    Of course being of age all of this matters little. After all, I can vote and drink and everything now. And being that I am far more liable to choke on vodka-vomit or die in a car crash I think we can all sleep easily in our beds tonight. Separate beds, that is.


  88. sartrecastic18 May, 2009 22:40

    In fact I think the danger of me voting Tory in the next general election is actually quite a significant one by which we should all be extremely perturbed.

  89. The reply at 22.39 is perfectly weighted and acceptable to me and indicates that no further concern is necessary.

    It is very clear that I don't really need to be further concerned or alarmed.

    Thank god the confusing style (lower case throughout the sort of experimental style a young person might use) has been dropped.

    I don't mind being portrayed as a lunatic version of Dennis Potter's Singing Detective. I just thank God that even if my finger nails were forcibly removed I could not under any circumstances engage in any discussion about 21st C post punk revival bands - cos I know feg all about them. I wouldn't recognise one if it ran me over with six wheels on it.

    I am simple R4 Classic FM person more of the latter than the former.

    Whoever/Whatever you are if indeed you start Uni soon - Good luck

    Differentiate between the Russell Group and the others if you can. Look at the tables make your own mind up.

    The idea that 50% of the population needs a degree and should therefore involve themselves in taking on enormous debt seem questionable to some.

    I was given a grant to go to Lancaster and I am ashamed that my babyboomer generation have left younger people with such difficult choices to make about their continuing education.

    In the end you do your reserach make your decsion - yer pays your money you takes your choice.

    Just as we all do with our votes.

    Best wishes for you future and goodbye I shall not communicate personally with you again.

  90. Cheers thaumaturge,

    Will look forward to giving it a go.

    (I seem to have lost the ability to comprehend a lot of what's going on here.)

  91. confusedofTunbridgeW19 May, 2009 01:26

    (I seem to have lost the ability to comprehend a lot of what's going on here.)

    safety in niumbers YC,, i'm with you,,new thread soon