@billp - this place was set up initially as a place to carry on discussing cif threads which had closed. It mutated into a place where some of us just shoot the breeze, talk a load of crap, swap youtube videos.
It then took on a focal point for criticism of the modding policy when a few of the regulars on here were getting pre-modded and/or banned.
A lot of people come on here and will continue to use CiF. It shouldn't have to be an either/or situation.
And generally, we've not bothered much with moderation or rules because we haven't needed them. We've been a happy little commune for the last few months.
The dynamic's changed a little bit in the last couple of days.
Up to you whether you stay or not. Just as it will be up to the majority on here to decide whether we want threaded boards, rules, modding etc.
Makes no odds to me whether you stay or go. But if you want to stick around, I suggest you take a little time to acclimatise to your new surroundings and respect your new neighbours.
You can suggest changing the curtains by all means, but don't try to fucking knock down the whole street because you don't like the view from your porch.
andy, I don't understand the point your making, although I'm sure it is sincere one.
Jay, why is my Cif username listed on the right, then? What is the point of that? Since you're an old hand here - one of the originals - you should be well placed to explain it.
The small club involves only those people who have officially ACCEPTED unfair Cif mod practices. Being hit with a police baton and standing your ground, does not imply acceptance of policing policy. Admitting that your being struck was justified, does.
You have promised Nurse Ratchett that you'll behave and take your medication. I never did. I always made it a point to post whatever I liked, and to inform the PTB on Cif that I was never going to change in that regard, no matter what thet did. they restricted my freddom of speech, not me. Returning there, you are responsible for your own restriction in that regard.
When I was banned before, I waited until I could sign back on under another "bill" username and continue as usual, until I was banned again. I may yet repeat that. Probably not, though.
I admit that I have not succeeded in changing the mod policy regarding censorship, but I never officially notified them that I would accept it as justified. You did.
So, what can we expect from JayReilly when he returns to Cif? A big block capital post calling Tony Blair a C**T? Or a series of lame posts confirming his acceptance that Cif may freely restrict his freedom of expression of opinion in that regard?
As I said before, the decent thing would be to smother the JayReilly username with a pillow. Instead, Billy Bibbet has assumed it.
Hank, I despise your wishy-washy attempts to restrict my freedom of expression. I'll write whatever I please. Isn't that what people have been claiming is optimal? So, why should it not be so in my case?
Because you don't like what I write?
I may become an example of what I was warning you about. Purely for research purposes, you understand.
What's that? I'm sure I heard a few people thinking the word "ban".
Go ahead, write whatever you please. I'm not looking to stop you. I'm telling you that we, ie all of us, will decide whether we need rules. We haven't as yet.
Seems fucking ironic to say the least that you're the one telling the rest of us what's needed round here, how we need structure, rules etc, and then claiming to be the biggest fucking liberal on here.
I'm telling you that you seem to have got the wrong idea of what this site is for. It is, has been, more of a social club, however distasteful that is to you.
What it isn't is a vehicle for your personal crusade, whatever that happens to be.
Or, if it is, if you persuade enough people that's what it should be, good luck to you.
"Isn't is all going to look a little "Hall of Wax - 1950s MPs Room" Can I be Brendan Bracken? He was nuts.
"I did ask, and i got: i'm back May 30th." Shouldn't we do something? Red carpet? 24 gun salute? Hog roast of Andrew? Free felt tips for radfems?
"He flexes like a whore Falls wanking to the floor" No Bowie fan I, but was this not referenced by the immortal headmaster Mr Casilingua in a comedy "skit" of note?
billp, i have to say i find all this quite bizarre, i dont know why you came on here with such attitude.
"Jay, why is my Cif username listed on the right, then?"
Its not rocket science but bear with me (and i hope this doesnt take the wind out of your sails):
When a lot of posters started getting banned someone suggested a Roll of Honour, so it was implemented. You got banned, so your name went on it. But i think you really need a reality check if you think your moniker is some sort of "draw" to the site, you're not a celebrity or renowned scholar.
"The small club involves only those people who have officially ACCEPTED unfair Cif mod practices."
Hmmm.. Surely my complaint to the mods and other staff was that the modding wasnt fair, and hence i should be reinstated, no? How does one "OFFICIALLY" accept modding practices? By complaining of its unfairness? Interesting. Werent you bemoaning the lack of debating quality here a second ago?
If you mean a "small club" by posting on CiF again then this puts me in a rather large club of people who dont think the modding is fair but post regardless and lobby for the modding to change.
Every person who has seen a deleted comment they thought wrong, or been aware of an unfair premodding, or been premodded themselves, or been aware of unfair bannings, etc, every one of those people that posts again is to some degree sacrificing a principle. That is the club and you're very much part of it, despite your delusions of moral grandeur.
"Admitting that your being struck was justified, does."
I didnt though, i said "that wasnt justified, please unstruck me." They unstruck me. Whats your problem?
"You have promised Nurse Ratchett that you'll behave and take your medication. I never did"
I said i wouldnt personally abuse writers - since i virtually never did anyway i dont see what the issue is. Tell me though, Billp, how many times did you get premodded? Presumably none, as to come back after a premodding would be snuggling on Nurse Ratchetts' teat, no?
"When I was banned before, I waited until I could sign back on under another "bill" username and continue as usual, until I was banned again."
So changing your moniker and going back to be "struck again" is what real men do, is it? Thats the principled line? Spare me the snivelry, please, this is laughable.
"I never officially notified them that I would accept it as justified. You did."
No, i didnt. My specific point was that it wasnt justified. The deletion, yes, obviously, the banning - no.
"So, what can we expect from JayReilly when he returns to Cif? A big block capital post calling Tony Blair a C**T? Or a series of lame posts confirming his acceptance that Cif may freely restrict his freedom of expression of opinion in that regard?"
Thats the plan, i will be a BTH type creature who fawns over the Graun hacks, you know me. I wish i had the balls to instead just come back under a slightly different moniker but im just not man enough for that sort of defiance.
Alright, thats rowing out the way, can i just ask why you have stormed in here with this attitude? I dont remember you being this much of a pain in the arse on CIF.
Hank wrote: "Seems fucking ironic to say the least that you're the one telling the rest of us what's needed round here, how we need structure, rules etc, and then claiming to be the biggest fucking liberal on here."
Try to concentrate, Hank. I'll spell it out for you once more.
1. NO MODERATION or RESTRICTION on freedom of expression of personal opinion. NONE. State whatever OPINION you please. Other statements may have to be moderated.
2. Implement rules that will help maintain order, and any "track", real or imagined, that this site is supposed to be on.
"I'm telling you that you seem to have got the wrong idea of what this site is for. It is, has been, more of a social club, however distasteful that is to you."
It's not distateful to me. I like social clubs. I'm just confused as to why that lsit is on the wall of the social club. Take it down and stop referring to this social club as some kind of refuge from Cif moderation, and everything wuill become clearer.
"What it isn't is a vehicle for your personal crusade, whatever that happens to be."
Who says so? Who made that a rule? Did you just make that up, Hank? Perhaps if you drew up a Mission Statement, we could all follow it.
"Or, if it is, if you persuade enough people that's what it should be, good luck to you."
You can try and impose what you like, but as you seem to be in a minority of one here, it's not likely to change the way we do things round here just because you want it to.
That's the way life works. People do what they want. If they don't want to do the same as other people they don't have to. And if they don't like what other people are doing they don't have to put up with it.
Going on about it isn't actually going to change much except, gradually, people will stop reading what you write and just carry on regardless. Doesn't really make much difference in the scheme of things really. :o)
JayReilly: "Hmmm.. Surely my complaint to the mods and other staff was that the modding wasnt fair, and hence i should be reinstated, no? How does one "OFFICIALLY" accept modding practices? By complaining of its unfairness? Interesting. Werent you bemoaning the lack of debating quality here a second ago?"
They didn't take you back because you complained, but because you "reached an accomodation" with them. However, since you claim to have sorted out the unfairness, may we expect a block capital "TONY BLAIR IS A C**T!!!" initial post?
Or have you accepted that it was wrong of you to express that opinion?
"Alright, thats rowing out the way, can i just ask why you have stormed in here with this attitude? I dont remember you being this much of a pain in the arse on CIF."
Perhaps my posts were been deleted and premodded. Perhaps you just didn't notice, because I'm usually only a pain in the arse to the powers-that-be, or those who consuider themselves to be such, especially when they attempt to restrict my freedom of expression, by whatever means
***********.
Hank wrote: "He's got a Messiah complex, Jay. Fuck him."
Well, that wasn't very friendly. what kind of a social club is this?
Jeepers though, you guys are easily made to show your true censorious colours. What's it been? 48 hours?
"It's not distateful to me. I like social clubs. I'm just confused as to why that lsit is on the wall of the social club. Take it down and stop referring to this social club as some kind of refuge from Cif moderation, and everything wuill become clearer."
Its been explained to you before but i would suggest you look in your address bar - cifTHREADrefugee. It was setup to continue debate after threads closed. The roll of honour was added and we said anyone banned would be welcome. You seem to have misinterpreted the roll of honour as some sort of marketing ploy.
You lost me at rule 1, bill. How do you reconcile stating whatever opinion you choose with the concept of moderation?
Personal insults are in themselves only opinion after all.
Who says it isn't a vehicle for your own personal crusade? I do. That's my opinion, as opposed to being a rule, as you should be clear from the fact that I went on to say that if you choose to persuade others that the site should be used as your own little ego-trip, there's no rule to say that can't happen.
Keep up!
"Isn't it enough if I persuade myself that it is?"
As I said, Messiah complex.
You're not gonna get banned, bill, much as it would boost your ego if that happened. You're just gonna get ignored, and then get bored and drift away.
BB wrote: "Billp You can try and impose what you like, but as you seem to be in a minority of one here, it's not likely to change the way we do things round here just because you want it to."
1. Things have already changed basedon my input. Daily Chat threads now close at midnight.
2. I make no attempt to impose anything.
"That's the way life works. People do what they want. If they don't want to do the same as other people they don't have to. And if they don't like what other people are doing they don't have to put up with it."
I'm doing what I want. Other people are complaining and getting upset about that. Is the above what you'll be posting on the Cif Moderation thread?
"Going on about it isn't actually going to change much except, gradually, people will stop reading what you write and just carry on regardless."
Is that what you'll be posting on the Cif Moderation thread?
"They didn't take you back because you complained, but because you "reached an accomodation" with them. However, since you claim to have sorted out the unfairness, may we expect a block capital "TONY BLAIR IS A C**T!!!" initial post?"
Dismal stuff.
They took me back partly because the "community" stamped their feet, and partly because i made a pretty good case for the good nature of my overall CIF contribution. I also pointed out Blair was the only writer i had ever "abused".
Your second point is a non sequitur - for it to make sense i would have had to have made the claim that calling Blair wasnt worthy of a deletion - but it was, it just wasnt worthy of a permanent ban. I protested the ban, not the deletion.
"Or have you accepted that it was wrong of you to express that opinion?"
I accept such comments will be deleted, that a newspaper wont carry them, though obviously i still consider the man a cunt.
"I'm usually only a pain in the arse to the powers-that-be, or those who consuider themselves to be such, especially when they attempt to restrict my freedom of expression, by whatever means"
Your tilting at windmills, there are no authority figures here, no one's playing the big man other than you.
"Jeepers though, you guys are easily made to show your true censorious colours. What's it been? 48 hours?"
Says the man who hasnt had a single comment censored... WHo is censoring you? Which post has been removed? Have you been banned? You still seem to be enjoying full posting rights, this is a jolly odd sort of censorship. No, all thats happened is you have marched in here acting like a cock and people have responded - "you're acting like a cock." Dont play the martyr.
Does anybody remember that guy, bill? He hung around here for a couple of days, shouted a lot. Whatever happened to him? He was a funny guy. Ah well, life goes on. Where were we...
I've got no work tomorrow - gone quiet this week - but that means I get to stay up in time for Montana the Time Transcender to show up for a change.
Internet group dynamics are weird. I guess a lot depends on what the common "theme" is that brings you together, but also whether people know each other IRL or not.
Jay, if it is NOW a social club, the list appears anachronistic and misplaced.
Hank: "You lost me at rule 1, bill. How do you reconcile stating whatever opinion you choose with the concept of moderation?"
Moderation is and will be necessary here as soon as someone states something libelous about a real person, especially if that person is a poster here.
"Personal insults are in themselves only opinion after all."
Insults yes. Statements of fact aren't. I know, I know, don't tell me, you expect everyone to avoid making such statements.
"Who says it isn't a vehicle for your own personal crusade? I do. That's my opinion, as opposed to being a rule, as you should be clear from the fact that I went on to say that if you choose to persuade others that the site should be used as your own little ego-trip, there's no rule to say that can't happen."
Yet, I could make it a vehicle for a personal crusade or an ego-trip if I wanted to.
"As I said, Messiah complex."
What does using this as a vehicle for a personal crusade have to do with being a Messiah? are you sure you know what 'Messiah' means?
"You're not gonna get banned, bill, much as it would boost your ego if that happened."
With what authority do you make that claim?
"You're just gonna get ignored, and then get bored and drift away."
You mean you won't be reading my daily articles? What is that anyway, a prediction, or a cloaked direction (call to censorship) to the sheep?
BB: "Nobody's censoring anyone. Otherwise I would have told Hank off for using the F-word."
Censoring, and attempted censoring, can take many forms. Name-calling with a view to marginalisation of the commenter and his opinion is one of those forms.
As you point out "telling off" is a similar form. Am I being "told off" by anyone here regarding my input? If so, according to your own definition, I am suffering attempted censorship.
Bill, why would being a social club preclude a roll of honour? What are you talking about?
"What is that anyway, a prediction, or a cloaked direction (call to censorship) to the sheep?"
You seem to have conjured a strange fantasy for yourself where you are the only brave man of principles amongst a shameless posse of invertebrates. Why would people indulge this pathetic fantasy by banning you?
Jay, whatever you say, I think you went cap in ahnd and promised to be a good boy. And I believe you WILL be a good boy.
Jay: "Says the man who hasnt had a single comment censored... WHo is censoring you? Which post has been removed? Have you been banned? You still seem to be enjoying full posting rights, this is a jolly odd sort of censorship."
Would you class the (suspected) flagging of all your posts on Cif by ultimathule to represent an attempt to censor you, or otherwise restrict your freedom of expression?
If yes, how can you say that I am not undergoing a similar process here?
If no, what's your beef with her doing it?
"No, all thats happened is you have marched in here acting like a cock and people have responded - "you're acting like a cock." Dont play the martyr."
So, it's you don't like to be outcocked, is that it? Is that why you played the Originals" card? You see me as a jumped up newbie who doesn't know his place? Well, get used to it.
Bill, if you choose to use an establised forum as a vehicle for your own agenda, regardless of whether the majority of other forum users want you to, then you are going to get ignored.
Fact of life. We're not interested. We ignore you. Your agenda fails. That's how it works.
If you believe that your agenda is a righteous one and is destined to succeed because of the Truth that you can see and the rest of us have yet to understand, then you are indeed suffering from a Messiah complex.
You also seem to be suffering from a persecution complex.
Nobody's marginalised you here, bill. You were welcomed as all other new posters are. You've chosen to pick fights with other people here. None of us are whiter than white when it comes to doing the same on Cif, but this isn't Cif, this is a happier, self-regulating place.
You don't seem to be very good at picking up signals.
As I've said, you can stay or you can fuck off (sorry BB!), it will make no difference to me as I shall ignore you from now on.
Calm down, like. In a spirit of reconciliation and supreme indifference, for all those out there who are misunderstood and misjudged. (wipes tear from eye)
You mentioned "the administrator" being American (actually you asked a question) and I thought you were referring to the new Chair who is indeed American. Not difficult to understand is it? As some posters have questioned whether CiF is being tailored for the American market, I just mentioned that I very much doubt Amy Fawcett has anything to do with this.
Hank: "Bill, if you choose to use an establised forum as a vehicle for your own agenda, regardless of whether the majority of other forum users want you to, then you are going to get ignored."
Hank now sounding like a weak mother shouting up the stair at the children. Going to...? Tsk! I plan to begin toeing the line when he reaches fever pitch and actually seems to be coming up.
"Fact of life. We're not interested. We ignore you. Your agenda fails. That's how it works."
I really love it when the old farts start pulling out the "we's" and talking for everyone. Smacks of a knowledge of a weak position, but still raging and fuming.
"If you believe that your agenda is a righteous one and is destined to succeed because of the Truth that you can see and the rest of us have yet to understand, then you are indeed suffering from a Messiah complex."
Messiah noun
1. also Mes·si·as (m-ss) The anticipated savior of the Jews. 2. also Messias Christianity Jesus. 3. messiah One who is anticipated as, regarded as, or professes to be a savior or liberator.
"You also seem to be suffering from a persecution complex."
I'd believe you if I didn't feel I was being persecuted here.
"Nobody's marginalised you here, bill. You were welcomed as all other new posters are. You've chosen to pick fights with other people here."
I didn't pick ANY fights. I offered suggestions and was basically told to either shut it, that I was an idiot, that I was poking my nose in where it wasn't needed or wanted, and that I was a jumped up newbie who ought to know his place. I responded to those accusations and attempts at censorship and marginalisation of my opinion civilly.
That I return a punch well, does not make me a fight-picker.
"None of us are whiter than white when it comes to doing the same on Cif, but this isn't Cif, this is a happier, self-regulating place."
So, why are you and others attempting to regulate me? Why dp you say you will be ignoring me from now on?
"You don't seem to be very good at picking up signals."
What was your signal? "He's got a Messaih complex, Jay. Fuck him!" Was that it? Or did I miss the real signal?
"As I've said, you can stay or you can fuck off (sorry BB!), it will make no difference to me as I shall ignore you from now on."
I know you can't ignore me. I'm far too funny and entertaining and intriguing and interetsing and compelling and controversial to be ignored. In any event, I write to hear myself think, not to receive the approbation of others. May I still comment on you and your lacklustre efforts here?
"You clearly have some serious issues. Good luck!"
The parting armchair-psychiatrist cum benevolent vicar shot. How cliche!
brusselsexpat, we got crossed there. I was reponding to Jay's remarking that "arse" was correct "because we're British". I responded with "Isn't the administrator [of this site] an American?"
Nice name-dropping, though. Eurovision Joneses Keepingupwiv Contest - brusselsexpats: Dee Pwa!
(P.S. You don't suppose you could ask her to look into my... no, I don't suppose you could.)
Dammit, 22 May can't get here fast enough! By the time I get home and get up to speed everyone's gone to bed. Honestly, BB, you have GOT to read Slaughterhouse 5. It's one of my favourite books.
Haven't had time to look at any of the YouTube stuff yet - right now I'm letting my beloved Tezza's dulcet tones wash away some of my stress...
"I'm far too funny and entertaining and intriguing and interetsing and compelling and controversial to be ignored."
Well, one out of six ain't bad.
Hey bill, we don't do moderation or banning on this site. So you're welcome to come back any old time you choose.
But if you choose to come back, in a minority of one, dishing out abuse, telling the rest of us what's wrong with a site we're all happy with, alternating between bully and victim, alienating one and all, it ain't censorship mate, and it ain't us.
"Jay, whatever you say, I think you went cap in ahnd and promised to be a good boy. And I believe you WILL be a good boy."
I went 'cap in hand' and promised not to be "abusive" to writers again, since Blair was the only one i had ever "abused" didnt seem too bad a compromise, and its a rule everyone has to play by anyway. As for me being a good boy, depends what you mean, will i be calling writers cunts? No. Will i be good like BTH? Well lets wait and see shall we billp.
"Would you class the (suspected) flagging of all your posts on Cif by ultimathule to represent an attempt to censor you, or otherwise restrict your freedom of expression?"
Firstly, for a man who claims to be such a master of reason you make some dreadful arguments. She is attempting to censor because she is requesting I be directly censored - she is asking mods to delete my posts. How does that compare to your situation? Who is asking for your posts to be removed? Who is asking for you to be banned? No one, in either case. Get over yourself. You may be ignored, seems others have started ignoring you, but thats part of free speech isnt it, act like a wanker get treated like a wanker. You've been a bolshy wanker.
"If yes, how can you say that I am not undergoing a similar process here?"
As above, no one is attempting to silence you. If they are, please highlight where these attempts are. Ultima tries to silence me by requesting my posts are removed. Who has asked for your posts to be removed? No one. Who has asked for you to be banned? No one.
"If no, what's your beef with her doing it?"
I dont like people who seek to delete others posts or get others banned. If someone here is trying to get your posts here removed or you banned then i will begrudgingly object.
"So, it's you don't like to be outcocked, is that it?"
I may be a cock on cif, i am actually fairly well behaved around here so being 'outcocked' isnt a particular concern. Not that i would even bother competing with someone of your calibre though.
"Is that why you played the Originals" card?"
You have to draw a line somewhere, but bear in mind the context - it was about people posting articles out of turn and ignoring the forum etiquette, not censoring opinion. You are not a victim here, billp, and nor are you challenging an authority figure, you are just being a twat.
"You see me as a jumped up newbie who doesn't know his place? Well, get used to it."
Thats fine, but the way things are going you might need to get used to being ignored, so as long as you're happy with that im fine with you posting your victim fantasies wherever you like.
You also commented to Hank or Scherfig, cant remember which, that you hadnt started any fight, and you had been attacked by others. You keep missing this point - its not your ideas, its not your input, its not your call for rules, its simply your bloody attitude. There hasnt been a row here for months, the first, to my knowledge, is this one. How is it that 20 odd people can get along fine until you arrive, and yet you still cant see that it might be you thats the problem? Grow up and stop being a twat.
here's something to cheer you up on a dreary Thursday morning (holiday here in France tomorrow though)
"Women are the victims of rapists because men cannot and will not control their superior strength, aggression and warped, perverted sexual appetite. They are the the ones we should prevent having access to both alcohol and women."
Anyway, catching up with a bit of Ralph McLean Country on BBC iPlayer afore I head off to central London for a v tedious conference.
@jay: oh dear and it was all going so well, eh? Anyway, keep billp around, I say, he's keeping things interesting. Some of the more egregious outpissings I could live without, but I don't feel obliged to engage, quite happy to watch as he harrumphs and strops around.
Hank in response to my 'I know you can't ignore me.', after promising to ignore me: "Yep, just like a car crash."
I know you couldn't (and won't ever be able to) ignore me, at least while others are responding to me. You sound like a control freak, who has to try to drum up the support of a mob, to support your personal agenda. If you want to ignore me, do so. Just leave everyone else to make their own decision on that score.
"But if you choose to come back, in a minority of one, dishing out abuse..."
What abuse have I dished out? All I did was make some SUGGESTIONS. Then people, in lieu of posting counter-suggestions such as "I don't agree, I don't think we need any control over article submissions", started abusing me. Not that I care. Really though, there is a paper trail of the discussion on this and the "Yeah, I know..." thread. Why don't you go back and read it, and see who "picked the fight" and who abused who? If you won't, I wonder if annetan might, and give us a level-headed appraisal of who the troublemaker(s) really is/are?
I (and you) don't know that I am in the minority in my opinion. Not everyone has made their position clear. Also, the debate isn't over yet.
"telling the rest of us what's wrong with a site we're all happy with"
Again, have you read the OPs of the thread that started this off?
From the "Yeah, I know..." thread's OP:
MW: "Sorry to start yet another new thread, but I feel like the issue of the format of this place or whether we should move is something that needs to be addressed... Honestly, if anyone has suggestions or experience with formatting this stuff, let me know..."
In response, JayReilly: "Im a little scared of a move but if its the only way then we'll have to i guess, as more and more people want to write stuff it is getting a bit messy so we need to think of something."
In response, scherfig: "Is there any way here to close a thread for comment at some point? And can there be a limit imposed on new threads opening while, say, maximum two are still running? Or a time limit of some sort on opening new ones? At the moment we've got 5 threads running, all within the last 36 hours or so.
Perhaps we could make a self-imposed rule that a new thread can only open when the last two have had at least 48 hours to run? It's dificult, I know, but it seems to me that now things are beginning to fragment and lose focus. And we've got the phonebooth as well!"
Now, does that sound like "a site we're all happy with"?
Would you mind using the pronoun "I" when stating your personal opinion. When you use "we", it makes it sound like you have consulted other people and have been appointed their spokesperson. I guess you haven't.
"alternating between bully and victim, alienating one and all, it ain't censorship mate, and it ain't us."
Am I in a position to bully anyone here? again, all I have done is offer some suggestions in response to a call for them by the admin, and subsequently defend my right to make such suggestions. Isn't it just that you feel bullied when you are not permitted to bully someone else? Please stop crying and stamping that little foot. It's unseemly in a grown man.
I didn't claim to be a victim. I am not a victim, in any sense. I never have been a victim. I do claim that I am being attacked for having had the audacity to offer an opinion and suggestions, then to defend myself when ridiculed and abused for having done so. In order to be a victim, however, you have to lose something. I haven't lost anything.
JayReilly, I've already said that I've said all I want to say on the issue of your return to Cif. You can carry on trying to defend your position, but I won't be responding (on that particular issue).
"I've already said that I've said all I want to say on the issue of your return to Cif. You can carry on trying to defend your position, but I won't be responding (on that particular issue)."
Dont take it to heart, some of your other points have been quite good.
Suggest away mate, I've said before I like the idea of threaded boards because that's what I'm used to, but I'm particularly wishy-washy on how this particular chat forum turns out, because it's the people I come here for.
As to Jay's return to CiF, well good for him if he wants to, why get so het up about it? Personally, I don't have any real interest in commenting over there anymore, the quality of the place has gone downhill and, seemingly thanks to the commissioning process, the discussions are so polarised now there's precious little to talk about sensibly.
SwiftyBoy, you are entitled to be as wishy-washy, or otherwise, as you want. As you know.
"As to Jay's return to CiF, well good for him if he wants to, why get so het up about it?"
I'm not getting all het up about it. I was commenting on it, that's all. Jay doesn't agree with my take. Perhaps others do, perhaps they don't. I noticed it being mentioned, and I stated my opinion on it.
I have little interest in commenting ANYWHERE my freedom of expression is restricted - unless I'm doing some research into the reasons for that, etc., or trying to effect change. One of the main themes that ran through my posts on Cif over the years was the "right" to unlimited freedom of expression of OPINION - FOR ALL.
In all the years, I never reported anyone for abuse - except after my last banning, when I used the abuse button to report a bunch of random posts, and basically continue my letters to the ed campaign.
Many times, my input was diverted onto the FoE track. I believe it to be the most important issue that could ever be discussed or debated. Without it, we can "own" nothing.
So, if I argue that corner forcefully, I make no apology. Someone has to do it. I never tire of doing it.
However, that argument should be seen to be separate and apart from my comments on other issues (even if I get drawn into it, due to the response to my original comments).
What I have (re)discovered here is that many individuals allow themselves (for one reason or another, as a result of one situation or another, or their "strong feelings" on a given issue), to believe that they have more right to an opinion than others.
I only ever feel that about the "right" to absolute freedom of expression of opinion, as I feel it is necessary to own it in order to have a real opinion about anything.
If anyone argues that we should not have such a "right", they argue themselves out of their own argument even as they utter the words. It is an illogical argument. If you have no "right" to absolute freedom of expression, you have no "right" to opine on that issue.
Of course, I don't believe rights exist. But that's another debate.
Billp, if someone had tried to censor you, to take away your "right" to comment, you might have a point. As it is your talking shit, and its getting very boring.
Last night I was having a chat with my lad about old age, and I said to him:
"I never want to live in a vegetative state, dependent on some machine and fluids from a bottle to keep me alive. That would be no quality of life at all. If that ever happens, just pull the plug."
So he got up, unplugged my computer, and threw out my wine.
;o)
Morning All!!
No work today. Meh. I get bored easily so there better be plenty to keep me occupied on the innernetz today otherwise I will end up watching Jeremy Kyle, then hate myself for it.
BB "I never want to live in a vegetative state, dependent on some machine and fluids from a bottle to keep me alive. That would be no quality of life at all. If that ever happens, just pull the plug."
How old is your 'lad'? That's some heavy fucking shit of yours that your thickly trowelling on him. I see him in the playground looking at his shoes thinking 'I don't have an option, it's all about my Mum. Oh, make me grow up so that I can leave soon.'
@billp - this place was set up initially as a place to carry on discussing cif threads which had closed. It mutated into a place where some of us just shoot the breeze, talk a load of crap, swap youtube videos.
ReplyDeleteIt then took on a focal point for criticism of the modding policy when a few of the regulars on here were getting pre-modded and/or banned.
A lot of people come on here and will continue to use CiF. It shouldn't have to be an either/or situation.
And generally, we've not bothered much with moderation or rules because we haven't needed them. We've been a happy little commune for the last few months.
The dynamic's changed a little bit in the last couple of days.
Up to you whether you stay or not. Just as it will be up to the majority on here to decide whether we want threaded boards, rules, modding etc.
Makes no odds to me whether you stay or go. But if you want to stick around, I suggest you take a little time to acclimatise to your new surroundings and respect your new neighbours.
You can suggest changing the curtains by all means, but don't try to fucking knock down the whole street because you don't like the view from your porch.
'La chair est triste, hélas! Et j'ai bu tout le vin.'
ReplyDeleteSmall prize* to first person who recognises the cannibalisation.
*my warmest congratulations
Now I really am off to bed.
andy, I don't understand the point your making, although I'm sure it is sincere one.
ReplyDeleteJay, why is my Cif username listed on the right, then? What is the point of that? Since you're an old hand here - one of the originals - you should be well placed to explain it.
The small club involves only those people who have officially ACCEPTED unfair Cif mod practices. Being hit with a police baton and standing your ground, does not imply acceptance of policing policy. Admitting that your being struck was justified, does.
You have promised Nurse Ratchett that you'll behave and take your medication. I never did. I always made it a point to post whatever I liked, and to inform the PTB on Cif that I was never going to change in that regard, no matter what thet did. they restricted my freddom of speech, not me. Returning there, you are responsible for your own restriction in that regard.
When I was banned before, I waited until I could sign back on under another "bill" username and continue as usual, until I was banned again. I may yet repeat that. Probably not, though.
I admit that I have not succeeded in changing the mod policy regarding censorship, but I never officially notified them that I would accept it as justified. You did.
So, what can we expect from JayReilly when he returns to Cif? A big block capital post calling Tony Blair a C**T? Or a series of lame posts confirming his acceptance that Cif may freely restrict his freedom of expression of opinion in that regard?
As I said before, the decent thing would be to smother the JayReilly username with a pillow. Instead, Billy Bibbet has assumed it.
Hank, I despise your wishy-washy attempts to restrict my freedom of expression. I'll write whatever I please. Isn't that what people have been claiming is optimal? So, why should it not be so in my case?
ReplyDeleteBecause you don't like what I write?
I may become an example of what I was warning you about. Purely for research purposes, you understand.
What's that? I'm sure I heard a few people thinking the word "ban".
@billp - "wishy washy" - yeh, that's me.
ReplyDeleteGo ahead, write whatever you please. I'm not looking to stop you. I'm telling you that we, ie all of us, will decide whether we need rules. We haven't as yet.
Seems fucking ironic to say the least that you're the one telling the rest of us what's needed round here, how we need structure, rules etc, and then claiming to be the biggest fucking liberal on here.
I'm telling you that you seem to have got the wrong idea of what this site is for. It is, has been, more of a social club, however distasteful that is to you.
What it isn't is a vehicle for your personal crusade, whatever that happens to be.
Or, if it is, if you persuade enough people that's what it should be, good luck to you.
I'll give it a miss.
"Isn't is all going to look a little "Hall of Wax - 1950s MPs Room"
ReplyDeleteCan I be Brendan Bracken? He was nuts.
"I did ask, and i got: i'm back May 30th."
Shouldn't we do something? Red carpet? 24 gun salute? Hog roast of Andrew? Free felt tips for radfems?
"He flexes like a whore
Falls wanking to the floor"
No Bowie fan I, but was this not referenced by the immortal headmaster Mr Casilingua in a comedy "skit" of note?
21 gun salute should be enough, really. Felt tips are a good idea though
ReplyDeletebillp, i have to say i find all this quite bizarre, i dont know why you came on here with such attitude.
ReplyDelete"Jay, why is my Cif username listed on the right, then?"
Its not rocket science but bear with me (and i hope this doesnt take the wind out of your sails):
When a lot of posters started getting banned someone suggested a Roll of Honour, so it was implemented. You got banned, so your name went on it. But i think you really need a reality check if you think your moniker is some sort of "draw" to the site, you're not a celebrity or renowned scholar.
"The small club involves only those people who have officially ACCEPTED unfair Cif mod practices."
Hmmm.. Surely my complaint to the mods and other staff was that the modding wasnt fair, and hence i should be reinstated, no? How does one "OFFICIALLY" accept modding practices? By complaining of its unfairness? Interesting. Werent you bemoaning the lack of debating quality here a second ago?
If you mean a "small club" by posting on CiF again then this puts me in a rather large club of people who dont think the modding is fair but post regardless and lobby for the modding to change.
Every person who has seen a deleted comment they thought wrong, or been aware of an unfair premodding, or been premodded themselves, or been aware of unfair bannings, etc, every one of those people that posts again is to some degree sacrificing a principle. That is the club and you're very much part of it, despite your delusions of moral grandeur.
"Admitting that your being struck was justified, does."
I didnt though, i said "that wasnt justified, please unstruck me." They unstruck me. Whats your problem?
"You have promised Nurse Ratchett that you'll behave and take your medication. I never did"
I said i wouldnt personally abuse writers - since i virtually never did anyway i dont see what the issue is. Tell me though, Billp, how many times did you get premodded? Presumably none, as to come back after a premodding would be snuggling on Nurse Ratchetts' teat, no?
"When I was banned before, I waited until I could sign back on under another "bill" username and continue as usual, until I was banned again."
So changing your moniker and going back to be "struck again" is what real men do, is it? Thats the principled line? Spare me the snivelry, please, this is laughable.
"I never officially notified them that I would accept it as justified. You did."
No, i didnt. My specific point was that it wasnt justified. The deletion, yes, obviously, the banning - no.
"So, what can we expect from JayReilly when he returns to Cif? A big block capital post calling Tony Blair a C**T? Or a series of lame posts confirming his acceptance that Cif may freely restrict his freedom of expression of opinion in that regard?"
Thats the plan, i will be a BTH type creature who fawns over the Graun hacks, you know me. I wish i had the balls to instead just come back under a slightly different moniker but im just not man enough for that sort of defiance.
Alright, thats rowing out the way, can i just ask why you have stormed in here with this attitude? I dont remember you being this much of a pain in the arse on CIF.
"If there are no rules, I'll post until the thing falls apart. And I'll have fun doing it."
ReplyDeleteHe's got a Messiah complex, Jay.
Fuck him.
Hank wrote: "Seems fucking ironic to say the least that you're the one telling the rest of us what's needed round here, how we need structure, rules etc, and then claiming to be the biggest fucking liberal on here."
ReplyDeleteTry to concentrate, Hank. I'll spell it out for you once more.
1. NO MODERATION or RESTRICTION on freedom of expression of personal opinion. NONE. State whatever OPINION you please. Other statements may have to be moderated.
2. Implement rules that will help maintain order, and any "track", real or imagined, that this site is supposed to be on.
"I'm telling you that you seem to have got the wrong idea of what this site is for. It is, has been, more of a social club, however distasteful that is to you."
It's not distateful to me. I like social clubs. I'm just confused as to why that lsit is on the wall of the social club. Take it down and stop referring to this social club as some kind of refuge from Cif moderation, and everything wuill become clearer.
"What it isn't is a vehicle for your personal crusade, whatever that happens to be."
Who says so? Who made that a rule? Did you just make that up, Hank? Perhaps if you drew up a Mission Statement, we could all follow it.
"Or, if it is, if you persuade enough people that's what it should be, good luck to you."
Isn't is enough if I persuade myself that it is?
@thaumaturge - Senor Iniesta doesn't play rugger, which might explain the lamentable gap in your knowledge.
ReplyDeleteAs monkeyfish said, Visca el Barcodes!
Trop du vin? moi aussi. Et des autres ici, non?!
Billp
ReplyDeleteYou can try and impose what you like, but as you seem to be in a minority of one here, it's not likely to change the way we do things round here just because you want it to.
That's the way life works. People do what they want. If they don't want to do the same as other people they don't have to. And if they don't like what other people are doing they don't have to put up with it.
Going on about it isn't actually going to change much except, gradually, people will stop reading what you write and just carry on regardless. Doesn't really make much difference in the scheme of things really. :o)
Moi, c'est du Pimms ce soir. Trop anglais. :D
ReplyDeleteI need to ring for the butler to bring me some cucumber sandwiches now.
JayReilly: "Hmmm.. Surely my complaint to the mods and other staff was that the modding wasnt fair, and hence i should be reinstated, no? How does one "OFFICIALLY" accept modding practices? By complaining of its unfairness? Interesting. Werent you bemoaning the lack of debating quality here a second ago?"
ReplyDeleteThey didn't take you back because you complained, but because you "reached an accomodation" with them. However, since you claim to have sorted out the unfairness, may we expect a block capital "TONY BLAIR IS A C**T!!!" initial post?
Or have you accepted that it was wrong of you to express that opinion?
"Alright, thats rowing out the way, can i just ask why you have stormed in here with this attitude? I dont remember you being this much of a pain in the arse on CIF."
Perhaps my posts were been deleted and premodded. Perhaps you just didn't notice, because I'm usually only a pain in the arse to the powers-that-be, or those who consuider themselves to be such, especially when they attempt to restrict my freedom of expression, by whatever means
***********.
Hank wrote: "He's got a Messiah complex, Jay. Fuck him."
Well, that wasn't very friendly. what kind of a social club is this?
Jeepers though, you guys are easily made to show your true censorious colours. What's it been? 48 hours?
"It's not distateful to me. I like social clubs. I'm just confused as to why that lsit is on the wall of the social club. Take it down and stop referring to this social club as some kind of refuge from Cif moderation, and everything wuill become clearer."
ReplyDeleteIts been explained to you before but i would suggest you look in your address bar - cifTHREADrefugee. It was setup to continue debate after threads closed. The roll of honour was added and we said anyone banned would be welcome. You seem to have misinterpreted the roll of honour as some sort of marketing ploy.
You lost me at rule 1, bill. How do you reconcile stating whatever opinion you choose with the concept of moderation?
ReplyDeletePersonal insults are in themselves only opinion after all.
Who says it isn't a vehicle for your own personal crusade? I do. That's my opinion, as opposed to being a rule, as you should be clear from the fact that I went on to say that if you choose to persuade others that the site should be used as your own little ego-trip, there's no rule to say that can't happen.
Keep up!
"Isn't it enough if I persuade myself that it is?"
As I said, Messiah complex.
You're not gonna get banned, bill, much as it would boost your ego if that happened. You're just gonna get ignored, and then get bored and drift away.
We'll stick around.
BB wrote: "Billp You can try and impose what you like, but as you seem to be in a minority of one here, it's not likely to change the way we do things round here just because you want it to."
ReplyDelete1. Things have already changed basedon my input. Daily Chat threads now close at midnight.
2. I make no attempt to impose anything.
"That's the way life works. People do what they want. If they don't want to do the same as other people they don't have to. And if they don't like what other people are doing they don't have to put up with it."
I'm doing what I want. Other people are complaining and getting upset about that. Is the above what you'll be posting on the Cif Moderation thread?
"Going on about it isn't actually going to change much except, gradually, people will stop reading what you write and just carry on regardless."
Is that what you'll be posting on the Cif Moderation thread?
LOL Billp :o)
ReplyDeleteNobody's censoring anyone. Otherwise I would have told Hank off for using the F-word.
"They didn't take you back because you complained, but because you "reached an accomodation" with them. However, since you claim to have sorted out the unfairness, may we expect a block capital "TONY BLAIR IS A C**T!!!" initial post?"
ReplyDeleteDismal stuff.
They took me back partly because the "community" stamped their feet, and partly because i made a pretty good case for the good nature of my overall CIF contribution. I also pointed out Blair was the only writer i had ever "abused".
Your second point is a non sequitur - for it to make sense i would have had to have made the claim that calling Blair wasnt worthy of a deletion - but it was, it just wasnt worthy of a permanent ban. I protested the ban, not the deletion.
"Or have you accepted that it was wrong of you to express that opinion?"
I accept such comments will be deleted, that a newspaper wont carry them, though obviously i still consider the man a cunt.
"I'm usually only a pain in the arse to the powers-that-be, or those who consuider themselves to be such, especially when they attempt to restrict my freedom of expression, by whatever means"
Your tilting at windmills, there are no authority figures here, no one's playing the big man other than you.
"Jeepers though, you guys are easily made to show your true censorious colours. What's it been? 48 hours?"
Says the man who hasnt had a single comment censored... WHo is censoring you? Which post has been removed? Have you been banned? You still seem to be enjoying full posting rights, this is a jolly odd sort of censorship. No, all thats happened is you have marched in here acting like a cock and people have responded - "you're acting like a cock." Dont play the martyr.
Old BillPugalist raises some interesting questions about group dynamics here...
ReplyDeleteLike if someone hates the group, won't join it, but feels utter identification with it and fears rejection from it...
Werry intewesting...
Does anybody remember that guy, bill? He hung around here for a couple of days, shouted a lot. Whatever happened to him? He was a funny guy. Ah well, life goes on. Where were we...
ReplyDeleteOh, bill, bless him, scherfig. I heard all was going well until he invaded Russia without shoring up his supply lines.
ReplyDeleteI've got no work tomorrow - gone quiet this week - but that means I get to stay up in time for Montana the Time Transcender to show up for a change.
ReplyDeleteInternet group dynamics are weird. I guess a lot depends on what the common "theme" is that brings you together, but also whether people know each other IRL or not.
Jay, if it is NOW a social club, the list appears anachronistic and misplaced.
ReplyDeleteHank: "You lost me at rule 1, bill. How do you reconcile stating whatever opinion you choose with the concept of moderation?"
Moderation is and will be necessary here as soon as someone states something libelous about a real person, especially if that person is a poster here.
"Personal insults are in themselves only opinion after all."
Insults yes. Statements of fact aren't. I know, I know, don't tell me, you expect everyone to avoid making such statements.
"Who says it isn't a vehicle for your own personal crusade? I do. That's my opinion, as opposed to being a rule, as you should be clear from the fact that I went on to say that if you choose to persuade others that the site should be used as your own little ego-trip, there's no rule to say that can't happen."
Yet, I could make it a vehicle for a personal crusade or an ego-trip if I wanted to.
"As I said, Messiah complex."
What does using this as a vehicle for a personal crusade have to do with being a Messiah? are you sure you know what 'Messiah' means?
"You're not gonna get banned, bill, much as it would boost your ego if that happened."
With what authority do you make that claim?
"You're just gonna get ignored, and then get bored and drift away."
You mean you won't be reading my daily articles? What is that anyway, a prediction, or a cloaked direction (call to censorship) to the sheep?
Has enyone mentioned a sense of fun ?
ReplyDeleteFFS, I don't give a shit if someone's from the ultra far right of Pluto if they can raise a laugh.. it's by no means the be all, but...
BB: "Nobody's censoring anyone. Otherwise I would have told Hank off for using the F-word."
ReplyDeleteCensoring, and attempted censoring, can take many forms. Name-calling with a view to marginalisation of the commenter and his opinion is one of those forms.
As you point out "telling off" is a similar form. Am I being "told off" by anyone here regarding my input? If so, according to your own definition, I am suffering attempted censorship.
Every now and again there is a comment on CiF that literally makes me cry with laughter.
ReplyDeleteThis is today's offering.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/may/06/god-hand-ebay-rock?commentid=a6e06c51-7b87-43dc-ae76-7b97eea1f5b6
FAF!
I mean, let's face it, where else could you read "reminds me of the 'omg its jesus' dogs bum..." ?!
"He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
ReplyDeleteThis is more like an IRC chatroom than a blog, really, all things considered.
ReplyDeleteTalking of supply lines, I have got work tomor row; look forward to the updates in the AM.
ReplyDeleteBill. Do you like Bill Hicks ?
Bill, why would being a social club preclude a roll of honour? What are you talking about?
ReplyDelete"What is that anyway, a prediction, or a cloaked direction (call to censorship) to the sheep?"
You seem to have conjured a strange fantasy for yourself where you are the only brave man of principles amongst a shameless posse of invertebrates. Why would people indulge this pathetic fantasy by banning you?
I'm off to bed folks, fun though this is...
Jay, whatever you say, I think you went cap in ahnd and promised to be a good boy. And I believe you WILL be a good boy.
ReplyDeleteJay: "Says the man who hasnt had a single comment censored... WHo is censoring you? Which post has been removed? Have you been banned? You still seem to be enjoying full posting rights, this is a jolly odd sort of censorship."
Would you class the (suspected) flagging of all your posts on Cif by ultimathule to represent an attempt to censor you, or otherwise restrict your freedom of expression?
If yes, how can you say that I am not undergoing a similar process here?
If no, what's your beef with her doing it?
"No, all thats happened is you have marched in here acting like a cock and people have responded - "you're acting like a cock." Dont play the martyr."
So, it's you don't like to be outcocked, is that it? Is that why you played the Originals" card? You see me as a jumped up newbie who doesn't know his place? Well, get used to it.
Night Jay
ReplyDeleteSlaap lekker
Bitterweed
ReplyDeleteExcellent that photo, innit?
It was the wording of the post that started me off in hysterics first of all though, without even seeing the picture.
Bitterweed, I think you'll find that 'a sense of fun' contravenes rule 17f. Consider this a friendly warning.
ReplyDeleteAnyone see the cricket today?
ReplyDelete(BB dependent on IRL stuff of course)
ReplyDeleteBill, if you choose to use an establised forum as a vehicle for your own agenda, regardless of whether the majority of other forum users want you to, then you are going to get ignored.
ReplyDeleteFact of life. We're not interested. We ignore you. Your agenda fails. That's how it works.
If you believe that your agenda is a righteous one and is destined to succeed because of the Truth that you can see and the rest of us have yet to understand, then you are indeed suffering from a Messiah complex.
You also seem to be suffering from a persecution complex.
Nobody's marginalised you here, bill. You were welcomed as all other new posters are. You've chosen to pick fights with other people here. None of us are whiter than white when it comes to doing the same on Cif, but this isn't Cif, this is a happier, self-regulating place.
You don't seem to be very good at picking up signals.
As I've said, you can stay or you can fuck off (sorry BB!), it will make no difference to me as I shall ignore you from now on.
You clearly have some serious issues. Good luck!
scherfig
ReplyDeleteOnly in the khUnt Quadrant,as well you should know.
'Bout time it kicked off in here. It was getting too unCiF like...
ReplyDeleteMoz you little stirrer! :o)
ReplyDeleteAnon- didn't see the cricket, no. I find it too depressing. I'm tired of cheering the underdog all the time
@MozP - yeh, been missing a good old fashioned virtual scrap since my banning.
ReplyDeleteNow I'll fucking see you outside as well (-:
Anyway, where's kiz, in breathless Kate Adey mode, with her report from the frontline?
ReplyDeleteIs she still taking tea with Georgina?
Jacqui Smith wants shooting. Seriously. Retaining DNA for up to 12 years "in accordance with the ruling Marper and S"? Lying cow.
ReplyDeleteGod, I can't wait til this bloody government go.
Ooh! Was that today? Kiz & Georgina, I mean.
ReplyDeleteCalm down, like.
ReplyDeleteIn a spirit of reconciliation and supreme indifference, for all those out there who are misunderstood and misjudged. (wipes tear from eye)
this
Choon, scherfig!
ReplyDeleteTop skills scherfig
ReplyDeletealso this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znjRf1zh2fA
Billplasterer - before I go to bed.
ReplyDeleteYou mentioned "the administrator" being American (actually you asked a question) and I thought you were referring to the new Chair who is indeed American. Not difficult to understand is it? As some posters have questioned whether CiF is being tailored for the American market, I just mentioned that I very much doubt Amy Fawcett has anything to do with this.
Very nice, scherfig. How about this one? Seems like a good anthem for this site.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv-H15IaT10
(Still haven't cracked the clever hyperlinky things on here...)
Ah superb, Hank!
ReplyDeleteDamn, I remember buying that single like it was yesterday!!
Or even.....
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KXlBeziPJ4
Right. Bed !!!
Hank: "Bill, if you choose to use an establised forum as a vehicle for your own agenda, regardless of whether the majority of other forum users want you to, then you are going to get ignored."
ReplyDeleteHank now sounding like a weak mother shouting up the stair at the children. Going to...? Tsk! I plan to begin toeing the line when he reaches fever pitch and actually seems to be coming up.
"Fact of life. We're not interested. We ignore you. Your agenda fails. That's how it works."
I really love it when the old farts start pulling out the "we's" and talking for everyone. Smacks of a knowledge of a weak position, but still raging and fuming.
"If you believe that your agenda is a righteous one and is destined to succeed because of the Truth that you can see and the rest of us have yet to understand, then you are indeed suffering from a Messiah complex."
Messiah noun
1. also Mes·si·as (m-ss) The anticipated savior of the Jews.
2. also Messias Christianity Jesus.
3. messiah One who is anticipated as, regarded as, or professes to be a savior or liberator.
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/Messiah
I deny having such a complex.
"You also seem to be suffering from a persecution complex."
I'd believe you if I didn't feel I was being persecuted here.
"Nobody's marginalised you here, bill. You were welcomed as all other new posters are. You've chosen to pick fights with other people here."
I didn't pick ANY fights. I offered suggestions and was basically told to either shut it, that I was an idiot, that I was poking my nose in where it wasn't needed or wanted, and that I was a jumped up newbie who ought to know his place. I responded to those accusations and attempts at censorship and marginalisation of my opinion civilly.
That I return a punch well, does not make me a fight-picker.
"None of us are whiter than white when it comes to doing the same on Cif, but this isn't Cif, this is a happier, self-regulating place."
So, why are you and others attempting to regulate me? Why dp you say you will be ignoring me from now on?
"You don't seem to be very good at picking up signals."
What was your signal? "He's got a Messaih complex, Jay. Fuck him!" Was that it? Or did I miss the real signal?
"As I've said, you can stay or you can fuck off (sorry BB!), it will make no difference to me as I shall ignore you from now on."
I know you can't ignore me. I'm far too funny and entertaining and intriguing and interetsing and compelling and controversial to be ignored. In any event, I write to hear myself think, not to receive the approbation of others. May I still comment on you and your lacklustre efforts here?
"You clearly have some serious issues. Good luck!"
The parting armchair-psychiatrist cum benevolent vicar shot. How cliche!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGcJX3MHvm0&feature=related
ReplyDelete...
brusselsexpat, we got crossed there. I was reponding to Jay's remarking that "arse" was correct "because we're British". I responded with "Isn't the administrator [of this site] an American?"
ReplyDeleteNice name-dropping, though. Eurovision Joneses Keepingupwiv Contest - brusselsexpats: Dee Pwa!
(P.S. You don't suppose you could ask her to look into my... no, I don't suppose you could.)
Dammit, 22 May can't get here fast enough! By the time I get home and get up to speed everyone's gone to bed. Honestly, BB, you have GOT to read Slaughterhouse 5. It's one of my favourite books.
ReplyDeleteHaven't had time to look at any of the YouTube stuff yet - right now I'm letting my beloved Tezza's dulcet tones wash away some of my stress...
Blimey, Killing Joke. Although he looked a bit like Bindel in make-up with those scary eyes.
ReplyDeleteTezza?
ReplyDelete"By the time I get home and get up to speed everyone's gone to bed."
ReplyDelete[a lttle bell tolls, mingled with cries of "unclean"]
I'm still up, ma'am.
To cute to ignore, innit.
ReplyDelete"I know you can't ignore me."
ReplyDeleteYep, just like a car crash.
"I'm far too funny and entertaining and intriguing and interetsing and compelling and controversial to be ignored."
Well, one out of six ain't bad.
Hey bill, we don't do moderation or banning on this site. So you're welcome to come back any old time you choose.
But if you choose to come back, in a minority of one, dishing out abuse, telling the rest of us what's wrong with a site we're all happy with, alternating between bully and victim, alienating one and all, it ain't censorship mate, and it ain't us.
It's you.
Here's a little song, just for you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLG2jaVdUMo
I'm gonna have to go soon. I was up at the crack of sparrow's fart this morning and I doubt I will get anything remotely resembling a lie in tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteBillp - the bell reminds me of:
"Bring out your dead"
"I'm not dead"
"Well he's not very well"
Night night y'all
ReplyDeleteBB - Terry Hall. I love him. He is my God.
ReplyDeleteGood one, Hank. I'll kick in with a handful of nickels. Night all.
ReplyDeleteBillp
ReplyDelete"Jay, whatever you say, I think you went cap in ahnd and promised to be a good boy. And I believe you WILL be a good boy."
I went 'cap in hand' and promised not to be "abusive" to writers again, since Blair was the only one i had ever "abused" didnt seem too bad a compromise, and its a rule everyone has to play by anyway. As for me being a good boy, depends what you mean, will i be calling writers cunts? No. Will i be good like BTH? Well lets wait and see shall we billp.
"Would you class the (suspected) flagging of all your posts on Cif by ultimathule to represent an attempt to censor you, or otherwise restrict your freedom of expression?"
Firstly, for a man who claims to be such a master of reason you make some dreadful arguments. She is attempting to censor because she is requesting I be directly censored - she is asking mods to delete my posts. How does that compare to your situation? Who is asking for your posts to be removed? Who is asking for you to be banned? No one, in either case. Get over yourself. You may be ignored, seems others have started ignoring you, but thats part of free speech isnt it, act like a wanker get treated like a wanker. You've been a bolshy wanker.
"If yes, how can you say that I am not undergoing a similar process here?"
As above, no one is attempting to silence you. If they are, please highlight where these attempts are. Ultima tries to silence me by requesting my posts are removed. Who has asked for your posts to be removed? No one. Who has asked for you to be banned? No one.
"If no, what's your beef with her doing it?"
I dont like people who seek to delete others posts or get others banned. If someone here is trying to get your posts here removed or you banned then i will begrudgingly object.
"So, it's you don't like to be outcocked, is that it?"
I may be a cock on cif, i am actually fairly well behaved around here so being 'outcocked' isnt a particular concern. Not that i would even bother competing with someone of your calibre though.
"Is that why you played the Originals" card?"
You have to draw a line somewhere, but bear in mind the context - it was about people posting articles out of turn and ignoring the forum etiquette, not censoring opinion. You are not a victim here, billp, and nor are you challenging an authority figure, you are just being a twat.
"You see me as a jumped up newbie who doesn't know his place? Well, get used to it."
Thats fine, but the way things are going you might need to get used to being ignored, so as long as you're happy with that im fine with you posting your victim fantasies wherever you like.
You also commented to Hank or Scherfig, cant remember which, that you hadnt started any fight, and you had been attacked by others. You keep missing this point - its not your ideas, its not your input, its not your call for rules, its simply your bloody attitude. There hasnt been a row here for months, the first, to my knowledge, is this one. How is it that 20 odd people can get along fine until you arrive, and yet you still cant see that it might be you thats the problem? Grow up and stop being a twat.
here's something to cheer you up on a dreary Thursday morning (holiday here in France tomorrow though)
ReplyDelete"Women are the victims of rapists because men cannot and will not control their superior strength, aggression and warped, perverted sexual appetite. They are the the ones we should prevent having access to both alcohol and women."
Guess the author?
IM too impatient to guess! Who is the beast???
ReplyDelete@commanderkeen:
ReplyDeleteGuess the author? Err, Jeremy Clarkson?
Anyway, catching up with a bit of Ralph McLean Country on BBC iPlayer afore I head off to central London for a v tedious conference.
@jay: oh dear and it was all going so well, eh? Anyway, keep billp around, I say, he's keeping things interesting. Some of the more egregious outpissings I could live without, but I don't feel obliged to engage, quite happy to watch as he harrumphs and strops around.
Hank in response to my 'I know you can't ignore me.', after promising to ignore me: "Yep, just like a car crash."
ReplyDeleteI know you couldn't (and won't ever be able to) ignore me, at least while others are responding to me. You sound like a control freak, who has to try to drum up the support of a mob, to support your personal agenda. If you want to ignore me, do so. Just leave everyone else to make their own decision on that score.
"But if you choose to come back, in a minority of one, dishing out abuse..."
What abuse have I dished out? All I did was make some SUGGESTIONS. Then people, in lieu of posting counter-suggestions such as "I don't agree, I don't think we need any control over article submissions", started abusing me. Not that I care. Really though, there is a paper trail of the discussion on this and the "Yeah, I know..." thread. Why don't you go back and read it, and see who "picked the fight" and who abused who? If you won't, I wonder if annetan might, and give us a level-headed appraisal of who the troublemaker(s) really is/are?
I (and you) don't know that I am in the minority in my opinion. Not everyone has made their position clear. Also, the debate isn't over yet.
"telling the rest of us what's wrong with a site we're all happy with"
Again, have you read the OPs of the thread that started this off?
From the "Yeah, I know..." thread's OP:
MW: "Sorry to start yet another new thread, but I feel like the issue of the format of this place or whether we should move is something that needs to be addressed... Honestly, if anyone has suggestions or experience with formatting this stuff, let me know..."
In response, JayReilly: "Im a little scared of a move but if its the only way then we'll have to i guess, as more and more people want to write stuff it is getting a bit messy so we need to think of something."
In response, scherfig: "Is there any way here to close a thread for comment at some point? And can there be a limit imposed on new threads opening while, say, maximum two are still running? Or a time limit of some sort on opening new ones? At the moment we've got 5 threads running, all within the last 36 hours or so.
Perhaps we could make a self-imposed rule that a new thread can only open when the last two have had at least 48 hours to run? It's dificult, I know, but it seems to me that now things are beginning to fragment and lose focus. And we've got the phonebooth as well!"
Now, does that sound like "a site we're all happy with"?
Would you mind using the pronoun "I" when stating your personal opinion. When you use "we", it makes it sound like you have consulted other people and have been appointed their spokesperson. I guess you haven't.
"alternating between bully and victim, alienating one and all, it ain't censorship mate, and it ain't us."
Am I in a position to bully anyone here? again, all I have done is offer some suggestions in response to a call for them by the admin, and subsequently defend my right to make such suggestions. Isn't it just that you feel bullied when you are not permitted to bully someone else? Please stop crying and stamping that little foot. It's unseemly in a grown man.
I didn't claim to be a victim. I am not a victim, in any sense. I never have been a victim. I do claim that I am being attacked for having had the audacity to offer an opinion and suggestions, then to defend myself when ridiculed and abused for having done so. In order to be a victim, however, you have to lose something. I haven't lost anything.
JayReilly, I've already said that I've said all I want to say on the issue of your return to Cif. You can carry on trying to defend your position, but I won't be responding (on that particular issue).
ReplyDelete"I've already said that I've said all I want to say on the issue of your return to Cif. You can carry on trying to defend your position, but I won't be responding (on that particular issue)."
ReplyDeleteDont take it to heart, some of your other points have been quite good.
@billp:
ReplyDeleteSuggest away mate, I've said before I like the idea of threaded boards because that's what I'm used to, but I'm particularly wishy-washy on how this particular chat forum turns out, because it's the people I come here for.
As to Jay's return to CiF, well good for him if he wants to, why get so het up about it? Personally, I don't have any real interest in commenting over there anymore, the quality of the place has gone downhill and, seemingly thanks to the commissioning process, the discussions are so polarised now there's precious little to talk about sensibly.
Plz to type more quietly - I haz a headache.
ReplyDeleteThat goes double for billp.
SwiftyBoy, you are entitled to be as wishy-washy, or otherwise, as you want. As you know.
ReplyDelete"As to Jay's return to CiF, well good for him if he wants to, why get so het up about it?"
I'm not getting all het up about it. I was commenting on it, that's all. Jay doesn't agree with my take. Perhaps others do, perhaps they don't. I noticed it being mentioned, and I stated my opinion on it.
I have little interest in commenting ANYWHERE my freedom of expression is restricted - unless I'm doing some research into the reasons for that, etc., or trying to effect change. One of the main themes that ran through my posts on Cif over the years was the "right" to unlimited freedom of expression of OPINION - FOR ALL.
In all the years, I never reported anyone for abuse - except after my last banning, when I used the abuse button to report a bunch of random posts, and basically continue my letters to the ed campaign.
Many times, my input was diverted onto the FoE track. I believe it to be the most important issue that could ever be discussed or debated. Without it, we can "own" nothing.
So, if I argue that corner forcefully, I make no apology. Someone has to do it. I never tire of doing it.
However, that argument should be seen to be separate and apart from my comments on other issues (even if I get drawn into it, due to the response to my original comments).
What I have (re)discovered here is that many individuals allow themselves (for one reason or another, as a result of one situation or another, or their "strong feelings" on a given issue), to believe that they have more right to an opinion than others.
I only ever feel that about the "right" to absolute freedom of expression of opinion, as I feel it is necessary to own it in order to have a real opinion about anything.
If anyone argues that we should not have such a "right", they argue themselves out of their own argument even as they utter the words. It is an illogical argument. If you have no "right" to absolute freedom of expression, you have no "right" to opine on that issue.
Of course, I don't believe rights exist. But that's another debate.
Billp, if someone had tried to censor you, to take away your "right" to comment, you might have a point. As it is your talking shit, and its getting very boring.
ReplyDeleteChrist...it's all gone to batshit here!
ReplyDeleteMendoza
Last night I was having a chat with my lad about old age, and I said to him:
ReplyDelete"I never want to live in a vegetative state, dependent on some machine and fluids from a bottle to keep me alive. That would be no quality of life at all. If that ever happens, just pull the plug."
So he got up, unplugged my computer, and threw out my wine.
;o)
Morning All!!
No work today. Meh. I get bored easily so there better be plenty to keep me occupied on the innernetz today otherwise I will end up watching Jeremy Kyle, then hate myself for it.
BB - "So he got up, unplugged my computer, and threw out my wine."
ReplyDeleteO noes! That's a cruel one you've raised.
Hihihihi
ReplyDeleteActually, I need to worry more about him stealing my booze than chucking it out. And he isn't even 14 yet!
Teenagers - they seem to mimic our own teenage transgressions at a much younger age now. Sigh.
I don't mind (most) teenagers - it's the little'uns I can't stand.
ReplyDeleteBB "I never want to live in a vegetative state, dependent on some machine and fluids from a bottle to keep me alive. That would be no quality of life at all. If that ever happens, just pull the plug."
ReplyDeleteHow old is your 'lad'? That's some heavy fucking shit of yours that your thickly trowelling on him. I see him in the playground looking at his shoes thinking 'I don't have an option, it's all about my Mum. Oh, make me grow up so that I can leave soon.'