26 May 2010



  1. Sorry, no time to put together daily events. Montana, hope you are OK.

  2. Thanks for putting up a thread today Thauma, is Montana ok?

  3. Born Today

    1966 Helena Bonham Carter
    1964 Lenny Kravitz
    1949 Pam Grier
    1948 Stevie Nicks
    1926 Miles Davis
    1920 Peggy Lee
    1913 Peter Cushing
    1908 Robert Morely
    1907 John Wayne
    1886 Al Jolson

    0017 - Germanicus of Rome celebrated his victory over the Germans.

    1328 - William of Ockham was forced to flee from Avignon by Pope John XXII.

    1736 - The British and Chickasaw Indians defeated the French at the Battle of Ackia.

    1791 - The French Assembly forced King Louis XVI to hand over the crown and state assets.

    1805 - Napoleon Bonaparte was crowned King of Italy in Milan Cathedral

    1896 - The last czar of Russia, Nicholas II, was crowned.

    1908 - In Persia, the first oil strike was made in the Middle East.

    1913 - Actors’ Equity Association was organized in New York City

    1946 - A patent was filed in the United States for an H-bomb.

    1946 - British Prime Minister Winston Churchill signed a military pact with Russian leader Joseph Stalin. Stalin promised a "close collaboration after the war."

    1959 - The word "Frisbee" became a registered trademark of Wham-O.

    1994 - U.S. President Clinton renewed trade privileges for China, and announced that his administration would no longer link China's trade status with its human rights record

  4. Montana:

    As with me the other day, re: abortion - there are certain issues and cases which re-ignite and bring to the fore deep hurt and suffering from a terrible past experience. For you it has been this case and what happened to you. I'm so sorry this happened to you. I have a friend, who against all the odds, survived a terrible attack which nearly killed her.

    For me, the language of violence and threat of intimidation of women who want or who have abortions became abundantly clear - it is the language of the dominant culture which isolates and subjugates women and it is the same dominant culture which makes rape such a common offence.

    Perhaps I should have been clearer. The decision to try the case in an adult court was one which, irrespective of the outcome/prosecution, put inordinate pressure on the little girl and the 2 boys.

    I commented earlier that it was not appropriate for any involved but did not mean this this as a way of excusing the 2 boys and what they did nor having any compassion for the little girl. Adult women have a hard enough time challenging the dominant culture and being believed in cases of rape - christ knows how an 8 year old girl would deal with it after already suffering a sexual attack.

    "he knew what he was doing and how to scare me into silence. The very fact that he was a "model child" was part of what made it so easy for him to intimidate me. He knew damn well he would be believed over me any day"

    This is the crux of all cases of rape, whether it's 10 year old boys or 50 year old men, it is the crux of male on female 'domestic' abuse and continues to be the single issue which permits all societies to place (male) rape and violence so low on the radar.

    Just as the upper classes have a sense of entitlement, I am pretty certain that many boys (your attacker being an example), effectively absorb the knowledge that they represent the dominant culture, if they are dysfunctional and that dysfunction finds expression in sexual violence against women,(an 'entitlement' to violence and domination over women/girls) then they instinctively 'know' (and I assume can know from a young age) that rape is a crime which can be carried out with little fear of reprisal for they recognise that they represent the dominant culture and women, are subordinate.

  5. jennifera: Just to show that there might be
    some perspective about all this open source stuff.

  6. sorry, morning thurminder

  7. Thnks to Thauma and Turminder ;-)

  8. LaRit: should i cross-post the "bullet points" from the dog-end of yesterday's thread?

  9. Morning all ;)

    Medve: those bullet points were really useful. Why not repost them, I've no objections at all.

    On a lighter note,

    As it's Stevie Nicks' bidet I'd like to share a bit of classic Danny Baker on GLR a few years back.

    "...and there we had it, the 'new' Fleetwood Mac track, digitally re-mumbled by stevie Nicks"

    Digitally re-mumbled? That's pure joy!

  10. What are some of the ways good sexuality education (shortened to sex ed) can help prevent and dismantle rape?

    * Good sex ed can help counter rape by letting young people know what consent is and what mutually wanted, shared pleasure can look and feel like.
    * Good sex ed can let young people know they ALWAYS have a right to say both yes and no and a right to complete say-so with their own bodies, and that no one else has a right to take that away.
    * Good sex ed addresses healthy and unhealthy dynamics in sex and relationships so everyone can better understand the difference.
    * Good sex ed doesn't enable gender or sexual roles or stereotypes that enable and perpetuate rape/sexual abuse, it suggests learners strongly question them.
    * Good sex ed teaches and encourages solid and open communication and active and shared decision-making.
    * Good sex ed makes clear we are all wholly responsible for our sexual choices/actions and that if someone chooses to rape THEY are responsible.
    * Good sex ed recognizes ALL people, of all embodiments, as potentially actively sexual: it does not suggest any group is somehow designed for or deserving of victimization or passivity.
    * Good sex ed works to support and empower survivors of sexual abuse or assault: it does not encourage silence, shame or self-blame. Good sex ed holds those who rape solely responsible for raping.
    * Good sex ed also knows and makes clear that rape isn't "unwanted sex." It makes clear that rape is not sex for a victim, even when it is for the perpetrator.
    * Good sex ed recognizes everyone with the right to say no also has the right to say yes; that only empowering no isn't very empowering at all.
    * Rape is and has always been perpetuated by silence, shaming, and denying mutual pleasure and wantedness is VITAL in sex. Good sex ed supports this.
    * Good sex ed also equips learners with knowledge and language (anatomical, interpersonal) to recognize and report abuse with, and support to do so.
    * Good sex ed does not want to teach its learners to accept or perpetuate unhealthy/abusive sexual behavior: it's goal is healthy sexuality.
    * It should stand to mention that many of us who work in sex ed are rape and abuse survivors: we know how critically important good sex ed is in this respect.
    * Good sex educators are aware that some who oppose sound sex ed do because they want to keep personally benefitting from rape-enabling ideas. We're onto you, and we'll keep calling you out.
    * The opposite of rape isn't sex: it's no rape. But really understanding what sex is and can be makes confusing or conflating it with rape very difficult to do.
    * Want to push back against rape, to counter, disable and decrease rape and the all the trauma it creates? Make sure that includes support of good sex ed.



    turminder: sorry about that spurious h that crept into your handle.

  11. Montana

    You are reading things that aren't there. I don't know what your problem is right now, but you are attacking people left, right and centre and it is not pleasant.

    I am sorry you thought I was being patronising. It really wasn't my intention. As I have said before on many a thread on CiF, there is a certain dysfunctionality that comes from doing the job I do. When it says on the news that someone has been stabbed to death in their bedroom by their lover, the first thing that goes through my mind is not "oh, how terrible" but rather "I wonder what defence they are going to run on that one?".

    If that makes me not a very nice person in your eyes then I am sad about that, but there is nothing I can do about it.

    I am very much aware that this is your website, so if you don't want me to post here any more, I won't. But that would also make me very sad.

    J x

  12. Oh stop it BB she would never ask you not to post here.

    And we never want to miss your posts.

    You can disaagree but still be friends

  13. I hope you do stick around, BB, the place has been very tetchy all round lately and everyone has been letting fly (including me), hopefully things will calm down.

    And Montana, hope things are ok your end.

  14. BB:

    Please don't stop posting here.... there surely is more to this than meets the eye?

  15. Good posting gang - we must hope that our much loved Cornish/American Sister is still with us.

    I think she will be. Life would now be difficult without her.

    I'm sure that those with admin access will keep us afloat if she is resting awhile.

  16. Christos - you scared the shit out of me!!

    Just as I was thinking if the above post made any kind of sense at all..... into my van flew two stunningly beautiful Swifts.

    They were chattering loudly and seemingly vexedly each to the other, they flew within six inches of my eye and then to the other end of my van where they perched on an empty glass just above an equally gobsmacked Mungo and Diesel.

    They just sat there, now silently, facing each the other, one on each side of the rim of an empty wine glass.

    They really were fucking stunningly beautiful at such close quarters. As you would expect I could never cage them.

    They did not panic or object as my hand came within two inches as I opened the window to let them continue with their wondrous lives.

    I'm touched and in tears of happiness at their passage through and in my life.

    As I full well know - I should be so fucking lucky.

  17. Hi All,

    I hope Montana's OK too!

    I can post new threads (but not delete people) but I'm really busy at the moment (making and putting mesh boxes full of gravel into rivers!). If there's no one else about who can though it might be worth prompting me at dotterel@live.com

    And wow deano, I'm very, very jealous!

  18. Morning all

    @Montana-as you know childhood abuse can and usually
    does cast a long shadow over someones life.And the
    pain and anger you are left with can leave you feeling so raw it takes little for people to 'push the wrong
    buttons'.I hope you,re OK and will soon be back to
    being the feisty but fair Montana we all hold in high
    regard.Take care of yourself x

  19. Heh Deanno, I had one house martin and a honey bee invade my cottage on friday, managed to shepherd them oot. Then on Sunday 2 housemartins came in thru the skylight and had to be persuaded out of the bathroom velux, after they had shat on the lampshades! My house guest for the weekend pointed out that she was sharing her room with a wasp, who seemed to be building a structure for more permanent residence. Felt a bit guilty about the eviction and demolition... Bloody wildlife! : )

  20. Deano:

    I'm as jealous as Dotterel - really, Swifts, one of my all-time favourite birds.... they defy reason and I love them with an absolute passion.

    Sadly, numbers of them as well as Swallows and Housemartins in decline here... the stupidity of people, smashing their nests to get rid of 'those horrible insect birds' in the words of one neanderthal person I had the displeasure to speak with.

  21. You stupid stupid cunt deano.

    Eighteen inches to the left of my wonderful visitors resting on the wine glass was my new classy digital SLR camera and I didn't think to take their picture before I helped them away!

    Plainly I will only ever be a small bit time photographer just as I am a small bit time guy struggling with the apostrophe.

  22. turminder:

    Obviously, just seen your post and I am in no way equating you with the person in my post above.

  23. Or were you talking about the wasp? ;)

  24. Oh I am so confused at events that I mistook my words.

    They weren't Swifts silly old man they were Swallows the white on their chests was plain enough to see.

  25. I moved the wasp along La Rit, and the nest was a paper sphere about golf ball size, so hopefully not too onerous to replace. I even helped a wee green caterpillar out of the house. I said to my (human) visitor it was still early enough in the year for my patience. Couple of months and flies, midgies, moths, wasps will all get the shoe... Still i like spiders, bees, n butterflies. Can we ever escape our prejudices? ; )

  26. I admit to being prejudicial about wasps meself Turminder.... having been stung in the ear by one as a kid.... but I admire their determination to build fantstical houses entirely from chewed-up wood though, in the right place of course. My Ma has a new one in the same place as she had last year.... she has a couple of velux windows too - is that the lure for them?

    As for midgies - worst ones I encountered were in Sweden - I ended up with 36 raging bites from the evil beasts.

  27. I am though very fond of rescuing all manner of insects and crawlies and showing them the door!

  28. Deano

    swifts - swallows? - all wondrous in their own right ;)

  29. Right. I've had a cup of tea or two and calmed down a bit now.

    I am still annoyed though. Montana started the thread yesterday by suggesting that anyone who thought the little girl might have lied was a view she found "disturbing", then explained her own experience as the reason why it beggared belief to think that.

    I was not playing one-upmanship games by saying that I have been abused as a child as well, and I was certainly not being patronising either by saying that I was commenting based on professional experience of cases involving children, or in any way suggesting that I had dealt with my abuse better than her. I wasn't even saying I was right and she was wrong. I simply said that my view was as valid as hers in the circumstances.

    If she had read my later posts yesterday, she would realise that I was not even saying I believed the girl did lie, just that there was clear evidence that she could have lied, in which case there was sufficient reasonable doubt. The judge himself said that had this been an adult case he would have thrown it out after her evidence. So there is a lot of uncertainty hanging over it.

    Yes, being abused as a child leaves you with horrendous scabs - I won't even call them scars because that indicates that they have healed, whereas a scab can very easily have the top knocked off it. Everybody deals with it in a different way.

    I was most certainly not saying that I had dealt with it better than Montana, just that I have a different view of things - and Deano is probably right when he says that, had I worded that differently, it would have come across better.

    But what I really didn't expect in return, no matter how annoyed or upset Montana was, was being told "Fuck you." That was totally uncalled-for. Perhaps it is just a case of "two great nations separated by a common language" again, but that really did upset me. I wouldn't say that to a friend IRL and wouldn't expect them to say it to me either. Perhaps the intarwebz makes it different, but I wish it didn't.

    I am - with a bit of luck - off on holiday on Friday so that will force me to take a break for a while, which might be a good thing all round. I shan't leave, though, unless it is made clear to me that I am not wanted.

  30. Hello

    I too hope Montana is ok and has a friend close by her.

    I see BBC has - at last - started to look at the disgraceful treatment of the sick and disabled under the so called benefits systems.

  31. BB I wouldn't take the 'fuck you' to heart if I was you.

    It is such a raw horrible subject for some that they react very badly when it it is brought up.

    Your scabs maybe bearable but some people have a raw gaping wound where that scab should be.

    I hope that no one is dismissing your experience but for some it does take over their lives.

    Not everyone is as strong as you.

  32. BB

    the only thing I want to say on this is that the hurts and wounds of the past stay with us in different ways.

    How they affect us later differs - they can lie dormantfor a while leaving us relatively trouble free. sometimes they are awakened and hit us with a force which surprises even ourselves - and sometimes confuses our friends.

    Enjoy your holiday, hope the sun shines for you.

    I don't want to lose any of the friends I have made here - I think that is the general feeling here. take care.

  33. Have a great holiday but don't leave this place BB we need you.

  34. BB

    I think Montana,s in a 'bad place' right now.I may
    be wrong but the tone of her recent posts suggests
    to me she,s not being herself.Try not to take it to
    heart.And enjoy your holiday.x

  35. BB

    I think it's a feature of the interwebz - together with the kind of misunderstandings/misinterpretations that can arise when people have strong feelings about things.

    I find it quite difficult to talk to people remotely - I'd much rather be sitting across a table (pub or kitchen), especially when talking about serious subjects that affect people deeply.

    We fire off posts and there's no space to say - hang on, what I actually meant to say was....

    By the time we get around to realising that what's been said could be misinterpreted and delete it - someone will have read it and been offended! This is not a subtle medium, - especially if like me, you're better at talking than writing.

    We often do talk about very intimate things here and without access to tonal expression, body language and all the things that go with a conversation IRL - it's quite easy to get the wrong end of the stick.

    Which is why I resolutely refuse to be offended by other peoples posts.

  36. "We often do talk about very intimate things here and without access to tonal expression, body language and all the things that go with a conversation IRL - it's quite easy to get the wrong end of the stick.

    Which is why I resolutely refuse to be offended by other peoples posts."

    True dat.

    Also when you say something in a conversation, even if it might be a bit harsh or tactless, it disappears into the ether. When it is written down it doesn't go away.

    I am a bit on edge myself for a variety of reasons at the moment too, so I am probably taking things far too much to heart.

    I don't want to fall out with anybody, much less Montana.

  37. I am sure you won't fall out with anyone BB have a great holiday, forget about this place and really relax.

  38. BB have a good holiday and come back refreshed.

    Montana take care hope you are OK, thinking of you.

    You both need hugs
    (((((BB))))) (((((Montana)))))

  39. Leni

    ''I see BBC has - at last - started to look at the disgraceful treatment of the sick and disabled under the so called benefits systems.''

    About bloody time as well.So far 40% of people who
    are being turned down by ATOS for disability benefits
    are having their benefits re-instated on appeal.It,s
    a disgrace.God knows how many suicides and other
    premature deaths will occur as a result of these
    appalling medicals.

  40. @Leni
    I see BBC has - at last - started to look at the disgraceful treatment of the sick and disabled under the so called benefits systems.
    Got a link (saw turminder's, ta!)? God knows I've banged on enough and fought long and hard (in the real world) about the privatisation of welfare, a future of indentured labour,exploitation and callous disregard, and the dismal propaganda and scapegoating put into place by the vile neo-liberals (cuntychops Purnell, you are not, and never shall be forgiven).
    Here's hoping Montana and BB are both well, and that things sort out.

  41. Morning/afternoon all,


    (going back to last night), what was the snippet on Brazil on t' news?

    I was going to explain about 'the system' here, generally, but I'm not sure what was mentioned in what you saw!!

  42. I heard that on the radio this morning. What an utter disgrace, and, worse, how humiliating for people to have to keep jumping through decreasingly smaller hoops to prove that they are incapable of working.

    The assessments should be carried out by independent experts, not some government-employed doctor who is working to targets.

  43. Namaste, Sat Siri akal, Sallam malikum, visitor from Hindustan!

  44. BB - you and I and Montana are all lucky to be part of UT.

    The net may not be the easiest of mediums in which to communicate but all here have a desire to try do so. Happily the folk here have good ears and eyes and mostly finely tuned senses and instincts. Most of them instinctively seek to...

    ..."only connect" so I'm fairly sure that no lasting harm will come from the confusion.

    I thought I was a careful reader but whilst I knew (from past posts) that Montana and you had both been abused as kids I hadn't till this morning known that she had been raped in such doubly tormenting circumstances.

    Being raped must be fucking awful but being raped in circumstances in which you feel that no matter what, you will not be believed could have been totally shattering.

    That the cruelly abused girl has grown into the astonishing woman that she has amazes me and fills me with admiration and affection for her.

    I think that, like you, she is special.

    (I don't want anybody thinking I just throw my kisses at any old dolly.)

    xxxxxx. (there that's three each in case your not good with numbers)

    Plenty of time yet but if I'm not around before you holiday have a fine one and don't do anything I wouldn't. (Which really means take your humanity and enjoy the freedom it gives you - all the fun is there just waiting for you to find and enjoy it.)

    I think it is inconceivable that you would ever be asked to leave UT.

  45. James

    Short report only on BBC last night.

    touched on the 'Racial Democracy' which underpins Brazilian society but added that this was in name only. Most gvt jobs and positions being controlled by whites. Poverty levels very high in nonwhite groups.

    Positive discrimination in favour of poor black students at university level. Also mentioned Family Grant - around £8o per per month- rural poverty .

    Skimmed surface really - giving sparse picture of poverty and educational levels and state intervention to assist.

    As I said last night I wonder about positive discrimination - many Brazilians are mixed ethnicity - to benefit from some schemes you have to pick a colour ! I wonder if this will widen gaps.

  46. This is an old man that I great respect for:

    "Dennis Skinner's republican quips during the State Opening of Parliament have become as much of a tradition as the rest of the occasion. Today, as the Yeoman of the Guard (Black Rod is ill) summoned MPs to hear the Queen's Speech in the "other place", the Labour MP joked: "no royal commissions this week", a none-too-subtle reference to Sarah Ferguson's unfortunate offer of access to ex-husband Prince Andrew in exchange for cash.

    So, in tribute to the Beast of Bolsover's verbal agility, here is a selection of his finest Queen's Speech jokes from the past two decades.


    Skinner quipped: "It tolls for thee Maggie", a reference to Margaret Thatcher's imminent departure.


    As pressure grew on the Queen to pay tax on her personal income, Skinner ordered Black Rod: "Tell her to pay her taxes".


    Skinner cried out: "New Labour, New Black Rod", an adaptation of the campaign slogan "New Labour, New Britain".


    Skinner shouted out "Tell her to read the Guardian" after the newspaper launched a new campaign calling for Britain to become a republic.


    Following a series of break-ins at Buckingham Palace, Skinner asked: "Did she lock the door behind her?"


    In reference to the new film The Queen, Skinner asked Black Rod: "Have you got Helen Mirren on standby?"


    After two protected hen harriers were shot dead on the Royal Family's Sandringham estate, Skinner cried out: "Who shot the harriers?" Prince Harry was questioned by the police but no charges were brought.


    Skinner quipped: "any Tory moles at the Palace?", a reference to the recent arrest of Tory MP Damian Green in connection with Home Office leaks.


    As Black Rod arrived in the Commons, Skinner joked: "Royal Expenses are on the way."......"

    (Clipped from New Statesman)

    If you know anything bad about the Beast I don't want to know and in any event you would have to walk on water before I would believe you.

  47. turm - after your last nights post.....................it suddenly came to me that I think that I know that the Titantic's anchor chains were made in Dudley.

    There you go if you didn't know that, you do now. And as they say your learn summat new from reading UT everyday.

  48. Moi name is Bar-eye. and oi cum frm Dudloi.

    Dudley was the nearest town when I was growing up, pukka Black Country lad me! ; )

  49. What,s the betting that once the cost of all the
    Appeals Tribunals etc is taken into consideration
    the bill for disability benefits will be more in
    real terms than if they,d stuck with the old system.

    James Purnell and all the New Labour bods who
    supported him are a bunch of shite eating fcukwits.

    Sadly don,t see that 'humanitarian' IDS making a jot
    of difference now he,s running the show.

  50. Some days you even learn two or more new things by reading UT.

    Cheers bro t.

  51. Leni,

    Thanks for the response.

    If I may be so bold, I'll explain what I know.
    (it's not often I get to be 'the expert'*)

    More generally, Brazil is an example of a country where racism isn't overt, but, like you hinted at yesterday, it exists in the form of lack of opportunity etc.

    It is possible to see non-whites high-up in the professional world, for example, but, at the other end, when it comes to the 'low jobs', it's also very unusual to see 'whites' occupying these positions.

    Consequently, although the vast majority of the time I disagree with 'positive discrimination', I think it's a fairly valid solution in education here (or at least a good start)....
    (although I've had my fair share of 'discussions' with people here who disagree with me on that...)

    The best Universities, for example, are the state, 'free' ones.
    However, to get into one, you have to sit a quite complicated entrance exam, and the highest x number of applicants get a place on a particular course each year.

    Anyone can sit the exam, but, realistically, the best chance of doing well, is by attending a preparation school for as long as it takes to pass.
    These are expensive, and, ironically, the only people who can really afford to get into the free universities, are those with enough money to attend the best of these preparation schools.

    In an attempt to break this cycle, certain places are, I believe, reserved for non-white students, or students from certain geographical areas, or who attended state high schools etc, but again, it's also the top x number of these, if that makes sense...!?

    As for the 'declaration of heritage', this seems to be a grey area.

    It's initially a 'self-declaration', then there's a further stage of superficial, official checks, (and obviously easier to confirm with the high-school/geography thing etc), but there is, like so many things here, a bit of room to play the system (when things get to the 'my great, great Grandmother was x' stage, things get a little harder to prove/disprove).

    It is quite controversial, and has created a bit of resentment, which has perhaps created tension, but I think more generally, this is a relatively small price to pay for a more long-term, and, hopefully successful reduction of gaps.

    Hope that made sense...!!

    *Obviously, and probably proved by the above, 'expert' is a relative term, innit!?.

  52. Paul

    I wouldn't even give you evens on that bet; it's a dead cert if the Immigration Tribunals are anything to go by.

  53. Plainly,.... more like..... you learn several and a few new things everyday on UT.............interesting and informative post James. Thanks for that.

  54. Montana

    Hope all is ok.

    Yes, I agree with others it has gotten a bit punchy round here lately. But come on folks. There are causes. I know I had a pop at poor hapless Nap the other night, but that was after weeks of rather obnoxious posts declaiming working classes, some had been aimed directly in repsonse to my posts; if a 21 year old kid wandered into a bar and did this randomly over a few weekends he'd have got told to fuck off. By me included.

    NOT beaten up I hasten to add, not a finger, but told, firmly to fuck off and consider who he was busy lazily and charmlessly condemning and why this angered people.

    As for other peoples' fights, that's largely for them to sort out - getting stuck in a mele is pretty pointless, especially when priapic shit-strirring trolls are flitting in and out.

    OK. I like a lot of peple here for a lot of different reasons. I regret anyone leaving.

    I have said for yonks, more well written, incisive articles on UT2, like we have seen recently is the way forward. By a country mile.

  55. it make I larf..

    EdwardNigma Today

    "A good beer or glass of wine or two with dinner, fine, the odd snifter of a single malt at the weekend,fine

    Absolutely, if you replace the word 'good' with 'nasty', 'beer' with 'chemical', 'wine' with 'CK One', 'two' with 'nine', 'dinner' with 'Pringles', 'snifter' with 'pint', 'single malt' with 'meths', and 'weekend' with 'court hearing'."

  56. Cracker by AlllTouttt:

    There is no such *thing* as an "unborn baby"...

    Unless we're willing to call ourselves *undead humans*!!

    ... as well as LaRit up to her very high standard.

  57. afk for a bit atb Montana, happy hols BB

    <3 u all

  58. Just re-read my above post, and just to clarify, my asterisk at t'bottom was intended as a dig at my own lack of expertise, nothing else....

  59. James! FFS! Don't EVER spring horrors like that on us again without a warning.

  60. James

    I,ve just had to reach for my emergency sick bucket.

  61. Haha - sorry guys.

    (worked though, innit!?)

  62. James, blindfold, last cigarette? Any last request at all?

  63. Evening all

    I'm really sorry for what happened to you in the past and I apologise for no being explicit in my previous posts.
    Certainly it's not my belief nor was it my intention to imply the little girl was a liar and the 2 boys were telling the truth. The fact that three children have had to go through an adult criminal court, under adult law, using techniques of cross examination in order to find the "truth" is disturbing to me as is an 8 year old girl being a victim of attempted rape and two 10 year old boys have been found guilty of committing this crime.
    I personally consider all three of these children victims: the little girl is a victim of attempted rape, a victim of the court system and a victim of the society in which she is growing up: a society that sexualises boys and girls in an inappropriate way. It continues to reinforce the role of girls and women as subservient to men and boys. The boys are victims of this society as well and no doubt will be considered by many as evil, monsters, devils etc etc.
    The fact that the little girl had changed her story under cross examination is just an indication of how inept the English justice system is in dealing with serious cases involving children. There is no doubt the little girl was under immense pressure and stress and may have felt compelled to change her story for a number of reasons: we don’t know the reason.

    I mentioned that one of the teachers had said that one of the boys was a model student etc as a response to Swifty's remark that his father, a teacher of 30+ yrs, said some kids are just "bad uns" and should have the book thrown at them. My intention was to point out that it’s not that easy or finite to define a child as good or bad...

  64. Habib,

    Again, apologies.

    (I'd reached the point where a firing squad was looking more attractive to me than another minute 'alone with my thoughts'....)

  65. There is just no excuse for that sort of thing.

  66. This comment has been removed by the author.

  67. As a punishment, I sentence you finding me a decent version of Funkadelic's Chocolate City on-line. A task at which I have failed miserably.

  68. Hi All

    James--Must agree strongly with others. I see too much of that skank already. In Canada, her image pervasive. Think about what you're doing next time. Please. Sarah M or Neil Young would surely be better choices.

    That had to be said. Now, who do you like to win the Mundial? I'm going with Spain. Talented squad with many dangerous and quick forwards.

  69. James

    thanks for reply - not for the screaming harridan.

    will get back later - how is the house hunting ?

  70. Had a read of both your articles, Sheff and Anne, both excellent, thanks for putting those up. I find the Greek situation fascinating - they seem the only people in Europe determined not to take this lying down.

    I still want to know the consequences and likelihood of widespread national defaults Aregentina style - who are most of Greece's liabilities owed to precisely, and the UKs.

  71. This comment has been removed by the author.

  72. thaumaturge

    Dunno if you,ll get this as i keep deleting

    Have you tried looking under Parliament-Funkadelic?
    That i think was their full name.

  73. Hi Paul, yes, I've tried Parliament, Funkadelic and George Clinton. I think he's one of those stingy bastards who doesn't like letting people listen to him for free. Van Morrison's another - cannot be found.

  74. Thauma,

    Sorry, I've failed miserably too.

    (HMV sometimes lets you 'sample' tracks from certain albums though, if you have the right info, might be worth giving that a shot)!!


    Sarah M's always a good choice. As is Neil.
    - I think it's funny that it's almost law in Canada that you support your music artists, yet Celine, not so much.... ;0)

    World cup wise, I'd say the smart money's got to be on Spain. Wouldn't discount Brazil necessarily though, or the Dutch, and for a cheeky long-shot punt, The US might prove interesting.


    Thanks for asking, but, to be honest, I'm not too sure.
    I've been informed that I'm now in the 'playing it cool' phase, which, I'm also told, if I do it right, is a step in the right direction...

  75. James--You're right, Canadians are very protective/loyal to most of our artists, with as you say, a few notable exceptions.

    Holland should be a good team to watch, though they don't play the total football now. USA? Can't see them going too far, but they have surprised before.

    Re Parliament Funkadelic; I just found them on MySpaceMusic. May not be accessible for many of you.

  76. gandolpho

    Great post and you are right - all three of the children are victims of one kind or another. and as none of us have seen the evidence we can't know the truth of it and we probably never will.

    Personally, I think it's a pretty fruitless exercise speculating and making assumptions about the case one way or another. What we can say is that It's yet another tragedy that will blight a lot of people's lives.

  77. Deano:

    re: the indomitable Beast of Bolsover:

    "If you know anything bad about the Beast I don't want to know and in any event you would have to walk on water before I would believe you"

    I feel that way about the man.... he does have the most politically educated constituents in the country.

    How bloody sad that we never hear his voice in the media....


    Thanks - thought AlllTout was great - and your good self of course :)

    Dunno who Kenevans is but tips hat... fab post.

  78. "The majority of schools are expected to turn into academies in the near future, the education secretary said today, signalling the biggest change to England's school structure since the 1960s."

    So we are privatising the entire education system, as expected. Weird isnt it, not once in the election campaign did i hear a single utterance of the word "privatisation" from any of the 3 parties. Even changes as fundamental as this can be danced around with euphemism, lies and nonsense, Big Society, Choice, Modernisation, unspeakable scum...

  79. James

    Just made the mistake of clicking on your link. Definite case for punishment!

  80. La Rit & Deano

    I was just talking to my dad about The Beast...spookey....one a the happiest days of his life was when Dennis alighted at Horsham (super tory always will be, god they increased Francis Maudes majority) railway station to join Paul Foot in opening a memorial to Percy Shelley.....

  81. Boudican

    Yeah, my best friend's Canadian, and I've lost count of the number of burned CD's I've received from her in an attempt to broaden said artists fanbase....

    And I realise that USA to win the world cup, on the face of it, obviously seems like crazy talk.
    But they did quite well in the Confederations Cup, and, depending on how things work out, the draw could be quite kind to them....

    (I think they're at 80/1 or something, so a cheeky fiver might not be the worst idea in the world!)

    Finally, if I don't get chance to say it before you go, enjoy the hell out of Fenway.

  82. Sheff

    Sorry. Although, in my defence, I didn't realise Celine was like the 'third rail' of the UT though....


  83. Jay: It's the "New Politics". A bit like "New Improved Persil". In other words business as usual.

  84. La Rit

    I once met the beast...a story I can bore you with if you come up on the 5th. Miners wives meet Greenham women together with himself - it was quite an occasion.

  85. @LaRit Thauma

    some really great posts on the "catholic femminist" abortion thread.......

  86. To anyone who,s remotely interested!!!

    Be interesting to see how the African teams fare
    this time round.My first memory of watching a full
    World Cup match with an African team involved was Cameroon in i think the 1994 Cup.Had never seen a
    style of playing like that in my life before.Can,t
    remeber off hand how far they got but they certainly
    made an impression.

  87. James--Thanks, I'm sure it will be a blast. It helps that they are playing better ball at the moment, but 162 games is a long slog. I don't leave until 12 June.

    Tried the MySpaceMusic for Parliament Funkadelic, and fortunately the free downloads are available here. Hope so for the rest of you.

    James, ignorance is not usually a good defense, but I forgive. Don't let Hank or Bitterweed catch you again, they may not be kind.(-:

  88. Jay,

    Gove would allow cigarettes to be sold in tuck shops if British American tobacco told him to. When a private company starts providing public services, it’s driven by value to the shareholder, therefore the service provision is governed by the need to maximize profits and increase the value of company shares.

    To ensure that the terms of the contract are met whilst turning a profit means, (just like the NHS) that quality will be cut by hiring less and less qualified staff ie more teaching assistants, to take over teaching hours. School buildings will be run down, repairs won’t be carried out, Teachers will have to reapply for their jobs, having to negotiate individual contracts.

    I haven’t read what the NUT’s and other unions response to this absolute outrage is, but to say it will have to be robust is understatement of the year. This is the nation’s future we are talking about here.

    Now we'll be spun that there will be 'robust procedures' in place to ensure that 'community and parents' will be at the forefront, but this is a wall of obfuscating horseshit.

    These swivel eyed ideologue fuckers won’t be happy until every kid’s uniform is emblazoned with “I’m lovin it!” on the back.

  89. Paul, I'm certainly interested in the African teams. Cameroon were, in their day, a highly entertaining side. Don't think they will surprise anyone now, but playing on their own continent could be helpful.

    Away to play golf, see you all later.

  90. Paul,

    Cameroon in Italia 90 were awesome.
    If I remember correctly, it was us that knocked them out, and only just at that....

    I think it was Pele that said an African team would win the world cup before 2000, and he was largely laughed at.
    Fair enough he wasn't spot on, but, essentially his prediction that African teams would develop into a proper footballing force, was for the most part, correct...

    (I think Ghana stand a chance of surprising this time....)

  91. Damn, last post got vapourised. Short version: Canadian radio stations are required to play a certain percentage of Canadian content iirc, which probably accounts for the high percentage of quality music to population. (Celine Dion obviously NOT included.)

    LaRit: thanks, but my one-liner hardly compares to your eloquence, especially as another poster said the same thing much better a few posts later. The thread has been one of the very good ones though: total demolition of the "arguments" made and the author's credibility. One of the reasons Cif is still worth looking at (although of course they shouldn't have published the bloody thing in the first place).

  92. And on to better matters, the World Cup.

    Boudican, over here the Dutch are bemoaning the fact that their defence is shit. They have a midfield and attack that is up there with the best in the world, but their defence is poor. Quarter finals tops I would say.

    Paul, Cameroon will always have a place in my heart for this magnificent tackle on Cannigia in the 1990 World Cup. Doubly so as Cannigia went on later to play for Rangers ;)

    James, how's the World Cup fever brewing in Brazil?

  93. This comment has been removed by the author.

  94. Duke - what's wrong with fags being sold in tuck shops? ;-)

    Other than that, good sense.

  95. Jay & Jenn - OU fees and Tesco vouchers.

    Came across this:

    TESCO/OU deal

    and wondewred if you knew about it, sounds like a very good deal.

  96. Above post of mine deleted because of failed hyper link.

  97. Footie World Cup: am largely uninformed on the subject but I fervently hope that an obscure team knocks France out. Algeria would be really poetic justice, except I have no idea whether Algeria are actually obscure or if they have even made it into the Cup.

  98. Please please please god or whoever don't let Italy win...imagine how Berlusconi would manipulate it into his victory and convince him further that he IS the New Emperor....

  99. Honduras are going to win. I know this because I picked them in the staff sweepstake.

  100. Duke

    I don't think I'd be exaggerating if I said it's gone absolutely bloody mental.

    Every advert, every shop, every drink has gone yellow, green and blue.
    (I bought some shaving gel the other day, and it came with a free Brazil T-shirt)!

    (I'm currently watching the Holland/Mexico match, for example, and coverage was interrupted for 10 freaking minutes to watch the Brazilian squad get on a plane.....)

  101. Thaum,

    Algeria are there, in England's group.

    The chances of them getting far enough to play France, are I would say, somewhat minimal (and if they do, something's likely to have gone wrong for England!)


    Amen to that!


    LOL. If only it could be that easy...

  102. If not England for the cup, then go on Greece - they need all the good news they can get. As do Honduras, but shazthewombat, I think you should resign yourself to having lost your wager.

  103. All

    So many replies needed and now I am being ordered to watch "sex n drugs n rock n roll" if I don't conk out, will get back in the wee smalls hours ;0)

  104. Is ther a team to ethically support?

  105. habib - Honduras! Who cares about ethics, they clearly need all the support they can get...

  106. I forgot to say that at the pub the other day I came across one of these:

    Mungo's Envy

    Fantastic beast. Mungo was in awe of his new friend as he weighed about 10 stone and towered above him. As I explained to Mungo you don't get dogs like that from the dogs home.

    Fucking amazing animal. You could get absolutely ratted and if you had a stout lead attached this is a dog who could drag you, for 10 or more miles, on your back to home while you dozed. Or if you trained one well you could ride him home since they are the size of a small donkey.

    The pups are about £1,000 and the dog I saw was plainly a gift/toy for an obviously wealthy young lass.

  107. Habib,

    Good question. If in doubt though, shouldn't we all be supporting Switzerland?

    Yup, I'm getting me coat....

  108. Deano,

    Coincidentally enough, my friend from Canada had one of them.
    First time we were 'introduced', I ended up flat on my backside, with a decidedly damp and well licked face!!

  109. Them or Argentina, if you like your Nazi escapees, James.

    I am getting my coat and am off to work. See yas later! :-)

  110. Deano

    I have two friends with those beasts......they are bloody massive. In Italy they use them as lifeguards....bloody good at that webbed feet..jump out of helicopters as well....

    could be useful to get you home deano a wise investment

  111. If the NHS were to give/loan dogs like the Newfoundland to folk with depression I'm sure that many would be helped to recovery more quickly.

    How's that for a nutters point of view?

    LaRit/Sheff/gando - I was prompted to post about the 'Beast' cos I left the telly on the BBC 24hr News last night and when I awoke I heard his distinctive voice quipping on the news item dealing with the opening of Parliament.

    He really is a gem with a distinctive voice.

  112. James

    'First time we were 'introduced', I ended up flat on my backside, with a decidedly damp and well licked face!!'

    I,m sure like a lot of people i don,t always read the
    whole of a thread before posting.And after logging-in i 'reversed'into the thread and was met
    by the above quote.Now i,m as tolerant as the next
    man James and what you do is your business.
    Nevertheless when reading the above my first thought
    was that this must be some Brazilian mating ritual
    that i,d never heard of before.!

  113. Paul,

    Hahah - I was going to say that I usually have to pay for that kind of stuff.

  114. Talking of mating rituals .............had our young friend Nap stayed around and asked my advice on how to deal with a lonely heart.........

    I would have advised that should he wish to invest some of his inheritance on a Newfoundland dog and a copy of something less Dostoevsky .............then he would have found it hard not attract female company from the student bars of old Glasgow.

    I'm still looking forward to hearing from BB that her son has liberated the rats and got a Red Setter.

    A suitable dog does more for a man than finely polished shoes - I know about these things.

  115. Aww ... you know I'm with you on the dog thing. Met a St. Bernard bitch down t'pub a couple of weeks ago - lovely dog, if you can put up with loads of slabber. Dog's "mum" significantly underweighed dog, which is something that would worry me personally - not in terms of attack with a well-adjusted dog, but in terms of control.

    Mine is a fairly big girl, but I still outweigh her and can pull her back from oncoming traffic if I have to. Which I had to do fairly recently as she'd spotted another dog, who needed greeting, across the road and was oblivious to the car coming.

    Bedtime now, 'night all!

  116. Any Firefly fans? Serenity's on ITV 4, now...

  117. I love his shows Shaz but I won't get involved in Firefly since I know it was cancelled after two series, the premature ending of Angel caused me real pain so I won't be fooled again. ;)

  118. Shaz,

    I watched an episode of the Big Bang theory last night which, being a 'back in time' episode, had the following line in it:

    'Tuesday nights at 9pm, the TV is reserved for the new Joss Whedon series, Firefly.
    It might be a good idea to keep that slot free indefinitely, as I predict a long, multi-season run....'

    made me chuckle...

  119. And on that note, I'm definitely getting my coat.

    Night all!!

  120. Jenn left you a post @ 20:26 above.

  121. Thanks Deano I hadn't seen that before, very interesting.

  122. Jen - take your point, but I always end up thinking it's worth it because it's so good - same with Carnivale, also cancelled early, but fearsomely good...

  123. James - :) famous last words!

  124. Jenn if there's a Tesco near you and your funnel your spending thro the Tesco family of goods you can make considerable savings on your OU fees .....if you didn't already know.

    Might help you get to next years UT meeting in the North/Yorkshire.


  125. Once I have bought myself a new laptop and been to my residential school I will be saving up for the next UT meeting Deano.

    I look forward to meeting you. x

  126. Jenn If there is a Tesco near you think not only about your grocery bills

    If you can deal with the discipline of credit cards ((paid off every month and no interest incurred etc) take a Tesco credit card and use it for everything - doubles your Tesco cash vouchers.

    The Tesco mobile phone/ insurance range of products are reasonably competitive...etc

    Point is that for every £1 Tesco voucher you get it's worth £4 in OU fee reduction.

    Since you've worked in a bookies and are good with numbers you'll know how to work it.

    Best W

  127. Very true, Duke, i'm sure we'll see all sorts of imaginative things for kids to spend money on at these new academies.

    Its the casual dishonesty that gets me, election campaigns have all the morals of a used car salesman. Its become so standard now its almost surreal, a 5 yearly offering of lies and half truths all acted out with faux earnestness and sincerity of the highest order. I think the proverbial Martian would find it hilarious.

    Deano - interesting stuff on OU, hadnt seen anything about that.

  128. "Point is that for every £1 Tesco voucher you get it's worth £4 in OU fee reduction."

    Im not sure thats right Deano, tho i dont have a tesco clubcard. The ratio from tesco vouchers to OU value is 4:1, but the ratio of spending to vouchers cant be 1:1 or else Tesco would be reimbursing 100% of their revenue. Presumably you get £1 voucher for every £10 you spend or something.

    Still a good scheme though.

  129. Tesco sometimes have special deals on laptops etc......it's all on the internet to keep an eye open for.

    If it makes a tiny contribution to you joining us all next time I'll be pleased.

    UT is something of a cooperative too.

  130. Ignore me deano, i thought you had said for every £1 you SPEND you get £4 to OU, me being a retard, as you were...

  131. That's "As you were...", not "being a retard as you were". I think i need to go to bed...

  132. Deano

    I don't have a credit card (I deal strictly in cash ;) )

    I have such a bad credit history I had to use my sister to get a phone line and broadband.

  133. Jay yes it's a ratio usually 1% at minute 2%

    I'm a single tramp with a Tesco Credit card which I use for everything food booze.......petrol...........etc

    the result is about £40/£50 worth of Tesco vouchers a year.

    That would convert to £160-£200 savings on OU fees as I understand it??

  134. Jen - that can be a real problem, have a friend who had to declare herself bankrupt, has caused her no end of hassles in everyday stuff

  135. Sounds about right, Deano.

  136. It is a nightmare Shaz it really buggers me up in a lot of ways.

    On the plus side I can't get into any more debt and most of it is paid off now.

  137. Jenn you can still make it make a useful contribution to your OU .................think it said something on the OU site about grants to some folks too

    Get your sister/partner/friends on the same points card as you and you will still get extra benefit when they shop at Tesco

  138. So the neo-liberalist ideology is back on the rails again in spite of it having failed so spectacularly. The "Corporatocracy" has won yet again. Who'd have thunk it?
    What do I think?
    Well for what it's worth, it's not sustainable. How long it will take to realize that fact, I don't know; or maybe it's just "Ground Hog" day forever!

  139. Leni

    responded to your questions on the Berlusconi thread.....

  140. "So the neo-liberalist ideology is back on the rails again in spite of it having failed so spectacularly."

    I think we're still at the stage where they pretend nothing's happened.

  141. http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/26/iain-duncan-smith-interview-welfare

    Idios in Guardian - not open for comment. it's frightening. All about 'getting them off benefit' - as yet no talk at all about the actual jobs people are going to get .

    No talk of reviving industry, of development investment, house building etc. People will presumably 'come off benefit' and eat air. the private agencies will benefit- nobody else.

  142. Leni

    You beat me to it!.Have just read the IDS article.It
    confirms our worst fears.The Tories are going to start
    laying into the sick and disabled.Why aren,t the Medical profession speaking out about this.This
    shouldn,t be happening in a supposedly civilised
    society.They really are Bastards.Purnell is guilty
    of starting this and i,d like to ram a red hot poker
    up his arse.Bastard!!

  143. Paul - you are fine civilised young man.

    I'd ram the white hot poker up his dick, a slow fraction of an inch at a time. And when he stopped weeping I'd withdraw it and reheat the poker.

    Regards bro - an early night for me.

  144. Montana - I look forwarding to waking in the morning and seeing your imprint.

    If sometime the road there should ever be problems you have my, and so many of your friends emails. You only have to ask if you want others to share some the work of UT .

    I don't know if I have told you recently lass - but fact is your ok.

    As best I understand these things I think that means you is a class lass.

    lots of my affection


  145. Paul

    ome at least of the medical profession will be earning extra cash conducting the 'assessments' of the sick and disabled.

    the BMA - if it has any honour or guts - needs to come out against this very heavily.

    Reading Ids he sounds as though he has classic Napoleon syndrme. i find his grandiose certainty very frightening. Who the hell decided this man was fit to hold power ?

  146. shall we say if sometime 'down' the road

    night all

  147. leni - best regards young miss.

  148. Night Deano and doggies x

  149. I have to say Nighty-Nighty all :(

  150. Leni: thanks for your reply to my e-mail. Much appreciated. My response was a bit too perfunctuary. I'll try to elaborate at a later date.