06 May 2010


The Eiffel Tower opened to the public in 1889.  The Hindenburg erupted into flames as it attempted to dock in Lakehurst, New Jersey in 1937.  Thirty-six people were killed.  The Channel Tunnel opened in 1994.

Born today:  Sigmund Freud (1856-1939), Rudolph Valentino (1895-1926), Orson Welles (1915-1985), Graeme Souness (1953) and George Clooney (1961).

It is the Day of Bravery in Bulgaria.


  1. Morning Everyone

    Medve was a bit concerned i was having an all-night
    rant.Not so.I was actually trying to converse with
    Montana whilst working.Multi-tasking ain,t my thing
    so any deleted posts in previous thread were dowm
    to me not being happy with what i wrote.Anyways
    glad that,s cleared up and Happy Polling everyone!

  2. Morning all. Just looking in, as am still on holiday (Croatia), and still (this post excepted) not posting ( not posting here as can't be spending time online when on hols, not posting on CiF because it's eating itself and repeating on itself, with election bullshit just to add to its current incoherent sandpit status).

  3. Morning Paul and Alisdair

    Gloomy day here - let's hope it's not even gloomier tomorrow.

    I had a friend come 'round last night for dinner so missed much after about 7.30.

    Will be offering to help the local Labour candidate today - manning the phones trying to get more people out to vote!

    See if I can't turn a few more people around...

  4. General Election Now!
    To paraphrase The West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band,
    “Suppose They Give an Election and No One Comes?”
    Work calls; see you all later…

  5. OK - off out now to deliver some last minute leaflets for the lab our party..... see you later ;)

  6. If the wrong party wins today, and with an eye on the birthdays:

    Now, don't be so gloomy, it isn't as bad as all that. As the fellow said, under the Borgias in Italy, there were thirty years of bloodshed, terror and murder, but it gave the world Michelangelo, Leonardo and the Renaissance. Now, in Switzerland, they had five hundred years of peace, democracy and brotherly love, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long, folks.

  7. Good luck in the polls! I'm praying for SNP/Green parliament here, my seat could be lib dem, might go tory : (

    @Sherf, you said a lot that I'd resisted, and remained calmer than I'd have.

    @Montana, sorry I started all this, hope the things we all learn from it make it less a waste of time. ; )

    @Paul, good luck. No really, I hope you can move on. You don't seem to have taken on any of the substantive points I tried to get across. I know what it's like to hold on to a sense of victimhood, it's not healthy.

  8. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8663742.stm

  9. Nigel Farage nearly died in an air crash!

  10. Jay, watched the video, and for the first time in my life I can say 'Well done the BNP for standing thier ground'. It is totally unaccpetable to attack politcal canditates whatever their repulsive views. Those Asian men wefre after one thing and one thign only, a fight.

  11. @ Jay

    Oh dear! A bit of me says the b*stard had it coming though. One back for all the people their hatred has directly and indirectly killed over the years.

  12. Besides, if they thought it would harm the BNP, it will do the opposite. It is counterproductive because it makes the BNP look legitimate.

  13. Nap I agree its not acceptable behaviour and tbh its counterproductive.

    But I can see where those guys are coming from nevertheless.

  14. Tough one isnt it, even with the BNP it seems wrong to go round spitting on parliamentary candidates. Shabby scene all round.

  15. annetan.

    We are lucky this 'incident happened at the end of the election campaign, not earlier on. If it had happened earlier, then this incident would probably net the BNP several thousand more votes.

    The people who committed the act could have been the BNP's best recruiting sergeants. Violence is counterproductive.

  16. So how is everyone getting on with their contribution to the technical exercise in legitimacy provision for the elite?

  17. I notice The Untrusted censors have been active on last night's WDYWTTA.

    Par for the course I guess and rather ironic on the day we're expressing our democratic rights to elect yet another 'mother of parliaments'.

    And just to remind everyone what this was all about - here's the man himself - before once more expressing his contrition:

    04 May, 2010 20:36
    Paul said...


    Don,t want to fall out with you but how can the use of the word NIGGAS -irrespective of context-not be racist?"

    Quite right - I even asked the ethnic minority members of my extensive family and they agreed, and were surprised at such open bigotry. Clearly Gordon Brown has set a trend running.

  18. Ha. Old Bitey's back. Hello my shit-strirring buddy.

  19. "So how is everyone getting on with their contribution to the technical exercise in legitimacy provision for the elite?"

    Ignoring it. Then going into a polling booth later and going "Ohhh... F@CK it !"

  20. Do you read this site every day, Bitey?

    I dont know whether anything was removed last night except for people deleting their own comments, but even if they were - it is not in the same ballpark as newspaper censorship. The press wield huge power and are very close indeed to Westminster - their censoring of criticism of our elected representatives matters. Deleting drunken insults on a small blog is hardly a national issue.

    Deletions here are not used to protect power from criticism.

  21. Oh and congratulations on getting the palindromic satireveritas banned - but in the words of Mr S, I'll be back.

  22. Jay - that BNP link
    Shit. What a f@cking mess this country is.

  23. Can anyone smell bullshit ? I can smell bullshit.

  24. Bitterweed:

    That cloud of BS is rivalling the volcanic ash: it can be noticed from Britain right through to Central Europe

  25. Can't really blame Iceland though medve...

  26. Probably won't stop commercial aviation either, just the sulphurous stink is a common feature ..

  27. My wife and I went to vote this morning (in Whitechapel, east London) and I can't remember the last time I saw it this busy (probably '97).

    On our way out I said to chirpily to the Tory-boy hanging around at the school gates: "How did Call Me Dave fuck up so badly? From a 20 point lead to level pegging? What a cluck" and my wife looked him up and down scornfully and said "Maybe next time".

    He looked so crestfallen I thought the bastard was going to cry. Good.

  28. misharialadwani
    Thanks for that...

  29. Nap - I agree its counterproductive but if you have spent your life dealing with the disgusting racism of these people I can see why it happened.

    But affray ids affray they should be up before the beak for it. Even though the thouht of defending the BNP really sticks in my throat...

  30. misharialadwani

    Thanks for that bit of cheering news and information.

    I think that it has been so Tory where I am that there is a local by-law which, if you do not park a Volvo, BMW or Porsche 4x4 on your drive, allows other residents to shoot you with impunity.

    In fact, the MP is so sure of his sovereignty over the area that he does not bother to live here at all, but spends his time three counties away and pretends that nothing fills his sails with more pride than to sometimes pop back at weekends and mix with his subjects.

    The funny thing, though, is that the LibDems are close enough to actually steal his throne - and I think they will.

    They have campaigned hard and effectively for months.

    His effort?

    An A5 letter, printed in a script to make nobody believe that he had penned it himself in his best handwriting, which basically said:

    Phew! I'm worn out with all this campaigning! When do I get to put my feet up? Oh, by the way, vote Tory or God will slam the gates of heaven in your face.

    I saw him at the school-gate, leaning against the railings with his hands in his pockets, chatting to one of the brainwashed damned.

    Some yards away, a lackey was trying to hand out leaflets, as people brushed past with varieties of loud "No thank you!"

    When do we get to dust of the spits and roast these bastards?

  31. Ah - this fucking thing called language and communication: on a good day a delight, and on others a tedious pain in the arse.

    There I was thinking "This post has been removed by the author." was completely unambiguous and along comes an old 'friend' who still, despite honest reassurances and explanations to the contrary, seems to think the UT site is subject to censorship.

    What can I say? - Brother in my view you is fucking mistaken. Idle repetition of untruths does not make truth.

    Paul - my younger and angered friend I do not share your opinion of Andy/Sheff/turminder/ or Montana.

    Nor do I share Scherf's view of you/Nap/and BB.

    And I share no views/opinions (or willingly even the air space) with slaphead MAM and his/her fans.

    I have already indicated I have no difficulty whatsoever in being considered a lightweight white cunt by any or all and sundry.

    Strangely though I still find myself interested in what all who write here on UT have to say. Which of course is why I spend the time reading here that I do.

    I am, and will likely always be, unhappy at censorship and I am far from keen on sectional groupings thinking they can have exclusive/monopoly use of a bit of the language. Man I just don't buy that crap.

    In my view black people who wish to ban the n-word are misguided. I always take the view that it is better to be able to readily identify one's enemy and those who speak of niggers with a venom and with an arrogant and superior tone are best encouraged into the open.

    That said I would not wish to hurt or offend my black/brown/multi coloured comrades so I rarely use the word nigger or nigga. I find 'friend' sufficiently affectionate and unambigious.

    As best I understand the latest news - the fact is we is all niggers now.

    The latest anthropology/archealogy/DNA evidence is strongly suggesting that all of humanity can be traced back to a few caves on the wild shores of South Africa and a group of about 200 folk who lived there.

    To the best of my knowledge nobody is suggesting our common ancestors were white.

    On this day we surely have more to worry about than our syntax and vocabulary. On that I would think we would all agree.

    Regards to all.

  32. @turminderXuss

    Thankyou for your earlier comment but i,m fine-
    honestly!No need to worry about what you perceive
    to be my 'victim' status.Always think a total lack
    of self awareness is more unhealthy mind.And yes
    i have faults as my one-off car crash moment a few
    weeks ago showed for all and sundry to see.Life
    can be extremely stressful at times and we all have
    our breaking points.But usually we get through them
    and move on.

    Don,t agree with your glowing support for scherfig
    for his imput last night.Can only assume you didn,t
    read the whole thread.But hey if an uncensored UT
    legitimises both his posts to me and my responses
    then this 'Paddy Nigger' as he called me will just
    have to accept it.Mind you it was him that flounced
    off last night and there was little old me simply
    fighting my corner.Something i intend to continue do with gusto.


    Wise words.I suppose this uncensored milarkey is one
    that i should accept,embrace and enjoy.

    Anyway toodle pip everyone and Happy Polling Day.
    Have an uneasy feeling in my stomach about the
    outcome but hope i,m wrong.May see y,all later.

  33. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/antigay-baptist-minister-took-male-prostitute-on-holiday-1964506.html

  34. deano

    meant to say-

    Wise words.I suppose this uncensored milarkey is one
    that i should accept,embrace and enjoy.Just takes a
    bit of getting used to !!

  35. *ahem*

    BOBE on child protection just up....

  36. Paul, the problem with deleting your own posts after they have been read by others (and you deleted quite a few) is that the responses that they provoke then stand alone and totally out of context. When you assume that turminder 'didn't read the whole thread', you're probably right - since you removed half of it. You fly off the handle and abuse people, and then delete it so that the evidence is gone. Convenient. And cowardly.

    Still, whatever. I'm afraid that I can't really take you seriously.

  37. scherfig

    Likewise matey! And for the record the only posts i
    deleted were addressed to Montana not you.I think
    our 'exchanges-starting with yours at 11.38pm-are
    there in all their glory for all to see.

    And for the record i deleted the posts to Montana
    because i was working at the time and made a bit of a dogs breakfast of them.I think you,ll find most people on UT actually delete posts at times.

    With your charge of me flying off the handle then
    deleting the evidence i assume you are -yet again-
    referring to my 'car crash' moment a few weeks ago.
    I think you,ll find that since then i have not
    abused anyone and then deleted the eveidence.

    For someone who says he only occasionally drops in
    to UT you do seem to spend a lot of time 'LURKING'.
    think you need to get a life mate.

    Have a nice day! x

  38. On the subject of diversity, just caught my Indian colleague eating a curry Pot Noodle. I gave him a stern talking to, naturally.

  39. thauma: Say what you want about O Bea E, but you have to admire the chutzpah of still getting articles about that one issue up on CiF.

    Okay, "admire" is probably the totally wrong word, but still ...

  40. Shameless, I call it, Elementary.

  41. scherfig

    I,ve just double-checked and as i thought all our
    exchanges starting with yours at 11.38 are intact!

  42. Anyone wanting any LOLs?

    I am applying for a job, have put on my personal statement. 'I have chosen not to disclose my deatils of ethnicity, sexuality, religion etc becuase I believe this is part of an opressive strutcure which is focused on getting 'quotas' in order to appease target setters. It is an affront to individual liberties.

    I have also explained my moral objection to CVs (on the CV) as I write about them being too narrow and not taking the whole person into account, yet determine everything. I feel they are unethical for various reasons, namely that you are essentially selling yourself.*

    At the end of the day, what is more important, my conscience, or toeing the line and sacrificing my beliefs?

    *second lols. When I told a psychitarist that, about I how I felt socially isolated and on the fringes of society becuase I rejected the nihilistic material world, she told me I had a 'Personality Disorder'. Fuck the World.

  43. Lighten up, guys. No more talk of race, or the N word or whatever.

  44. Shameless beyond Jackass, thauma. Which is, all said and done, quite an achievement, after all. A disgusting achievement, sure, but who bothers with adjectives, anyway?

  45. In the grim and seedy world of work that will be read by employers as "troublemaker" in bold letters, Nap. Its entirely up to you, I know. Just saying.

    As my Marxist friend responded to my charge of hypocrisy once, "you still have to eat whilst plotting the revolution".

  46. deano:

    “In my view black people who wish to ban the n-word are misguided.”

    And in mine too.

    My view of people who wish to ban the n-word for others while reserving for themselves the right to use words like “cunt” and “paki” in an aggressive and insulting manner, and to abuse anyone and everyone who appears to disagree with them is that they are hypocritical wankers, and whilst I hope I’ve always gone on record as being against censorship of any kind, I think this site would be better off without their self-centred infantile whining.

    Latest bit of “patronising bollocks” (oooh, I’m still reeling from that one) over…

  47. Shameless is far too polite a word for Bea C - she's horrific. The lack of shame and dignity is mindblowing.

  48. Well, Napoleon, "The Great Race" is a really decent movie, worth talking of. That tart fight is EPIC!

  49. Jay: Erst kommt das Fressen, dann die Moral. Brecht, Marxist.

  50. Scherfig, there's one FelixKrull on Waddya getting very upset about Greenland's independence from Denmark.


    Denmark provides state functions to Greenland like cuast guard, defence, hospitals, police, courts of justice and (very importantly) geological surveys. I mentioned the subsidies, yes?

    Greenland, on the other hand, has no obligatins towards Denmark.

    Sounds a lot like the SNP/English anti-UK fights.

  51. Jay,
    Prinzip uber alles, mein guter mann!

    I don't mean to sound like an Ayn Rand whacko, but it is so unfair that the best in society, those with an independant mind, are discriminated against for daring to go against the mainstream. If we all withdrew our labour, society would collapse, or be full of x factor type drones (rather the same thing).

    My beliefs and worldview quite simply, are me. To deprive myself of my conscience is to deprive myself of the jsutification for my existence.

    Fuck Psychiatry too. It was only after being diagnosed with the Orwellian sounding 'Personality Disorder' that I decided to set up my blog, if anything to record and expand on my thoughts and provide my own voice against the tyranny of the mainstream.

  52. Andy

    Oh dear were you referring to MOI.Didn,t realise i
    had spent the last few weeks on UT indulging in
    self-centred whining.I do agree with you such
    people can be a pain.

    With regard to the 'patronising bollocks' thing yes
    in an ideal world could have worded it better.But
    this is the uncensored UT and if i have to accept
    the word NIGGA being used then i,m afraid you,ll
    have to keep 'reeling' at my responses.

    BTW -you didn,t 'witness' my one off car crash
    when i lashed out to all and sundry so you are
    relying on heresay-which as i hope BB would
    agree wouldn,t stand up in court.Plus of course
    there were my own mitigating circumstances,my
    immediate apology etc etc etc.

    Anyway let,s draw a line under this.We don,t know
    each other so no probs with me if we don,t

    And for people who are bored with this going on and
    on and on can i point out that i am simply
    replying to posts directed at me.

  53. Yeah, thauma, I spotted that guy a good while back, always banging on about Greenland, so I had him pegged as a Dane. I'm assuming that his name comes from the Thomas Mann novel, 'Confessions of Felix Krull, Confidence Man: The Early Years'. Dunno what that says about him, but my impression of his posts has always been that he's a bit hatstand. Am I allowed to say that here?

  54. Napoleon K:

    I’ve been following your contributions recently, and have been meaning to address you for a while.

    I’d suggest that for you (for anyone) getting a job, any job, at all costs is not necessarily the best idea.

    Assuming that you’re not financially responsible for anyone else, you might want to think about approaching things from the perspective of “what do I actually want to do?” rather than “how can I make some money”.

    If there’s an area of employment you’d ultimately be interested in, you might find it more satisfying (and ultimately more productive) to consider some combination of training and voluntary work.

    I’ve been combining these two in the area of conservation for the past few years (I’m currently working as a volunteer warden for the National Trust in North Cornwall), and I’m certainly enjoying it far more than if I were working in some minimum wage shit hole.

    I also get the impression that you’re still a bit isolated after your move to Glasgow, and volunteering can be a great way of getting out and meeting new, often like-minded people.

    There are also ways of using the Social Security system to your advantage, especially if you’ve been diagnosed as having a personality disorder. Don’t lose any sleep over that one, BTW, they’re just words and have been applied to the best of us ;-)

  55. Afternoon/Morning/Evening all,

    Let's get ready to rhuuuuum-bahl.........

  56. scherfig:

    “my impression of his posts has always been that he's a bit hatstand. Am I allowed to say that here?”

    As you never tire of reminding us ( ;-) ), you are one of the Original Untrusted, so you should know better than anyone that you are allowed to say whatever the fuck you want.

    I’d prefer it if you didn’t use terms like “hatstand” which seem to me to be make offensive allusions about the mental stability of someone who may just have opinions with which you disagree, but I’m not going to throw my toys out of the pram over it.

  57. Shit.

    I’ve just realised that my previous comment could be interpreted as being offensive to small children or others in prams, or perhaps those with hand/eye co-ordination issues.

    So sorry for any imaginary offence caused.

  58. Hi NapK

    I think that everyone who has been involved in the Mental Health system has been told that they have a personality disorder at some point, as well as being as useful a catch all for a psychiatrist as having a virus is for a GP it means you can be put to the bottom of the list because personality disorders make you resistant to therapy.

    Try finding out what personality disorder you have and what the diagnostic criteria is, that's always a laugh.

  59. 'I’d prefer it if you didn’t use terms like “hatstand” which seem to me to be make offensive allusions about the mental stability of someone who may just have opinions with which you disagree, but I’m not going to throw my toys out of the pram over it.'

    FFS, andy. Has it really come to this? Next time I'll say 'odd' or 'eccentric'. Would that be acceptable to you or would that also 'seem' to you to be an offensive allusion to someone's 'mental stability'?

    I fuckin' give up.

  60. Re-reading your comment, andy, and also your subsequent comment, I'm wondering whether you were serious in the first place? I really don't know. I think that if we find ourselves in a place where we can't even tell the difference, then we're in deep shit.

    btw my imagination is, like, totally offended (in a very real way).

  61. Well,

    I'm left wondering what the poor hatstands have ever done to you lot!

    Sorry, I'll get me coat (removing it very respectfully from the stand, obviously...)

  62. Hello All

    The Great Day is with us ! A brooding silence hangs over us - we will soon know our fate. Ho hum !

    The BNP tussle - I thought the BNP opened hostilities by asking the Asian men which of them was robber ! Not a tactful approach - likely to beget an angry response.

  63. Won't you spare a thought for those of us who don't even have a hatstand?

  64. Dott

    I was once entangled in an overloaded hatstand which tipped over the edge and engulfed me. The free standing type can be very unpredictable.

  65. Scherf - "...I fuckin' give up...."

    You don't and you never will. Thankfully.

  66. 364 visitors today@ 15:24

    Any guesses for the total by midnight?

  67. Deano

    Bit like being in a zoo - I wish more of the watchers would join in.

  68. or something to keep warm beneath a heat.

    I nominate "One flew over the cukoos nest" for best film ever!

    Coffee break over.

  69. The BNP tussle, for me, is quite symbolic (if symbolism's your bag, obviously)

    Started with incitement, went through 'there's more of us than there are of you', then through 'why don't you just fuck off home', and then finished with jumping in, and kicking people in the head when they're already on the ground.

    Bravo BNP.

  70. Try that again Lenni ..Cuckoo's ..

    Saw a fantastic stoat dashing across the field whilst out this am! Wish I had had me new camera with mre

  71. Anyone fancy a pint ? I sure as shit do.

  72. Try that again Lenni - "beneath a hat" &..Cuckoo's ..

    Saw a fantastic stoat dashing across the field whilst out this am! Wish I had had me new camera with me.

  73. scherfig:

    Sorry, I was (sort of) taking the piss. I often rely too heavily on irony, and it obviously doesn’t always come across.

    The point I was attempting to make, which I was continuing in a now redundant response to your comment @ 15.00, is that language is full of words and expressions which are derogatory towards one group or another, and which often cause offence where none is actually intended.

    I just find it rather frustrating when some people (and although Paul is the immediate example, he’s far from the only one; I’m probably “guilty” of it myself from time-to-time) express outrage at a word they perceive as being offence to them but are happy to use words which are similarly offensive to others.


    I wasn’t trying to have a go at you in my original comment, though your “patronising bollocks” response did wind me up.

    The point I was trying to make is that, in my opinion, attempting to censor other people’s words or expression of their opinions is never a good thing, especially if you don’t have the awareness or control to choose your own words rather more carefully than you did the other night.

    I don’t want to have a major falling out with you over this, but from this example, which is all I’ve really got to go on, I suspect that you and I will not have much of value to say to each other.

    Only time will tell though, and I’m sure we can both co-exist here if that does turn out to be the case.

  74. Gagging for several and a few BW

  75. Deano

    Stoats are amazing - dancing and dashing their specialities.

    Speaking of cuckoos - we seem to be having fewer and fewer each year.

  76. Leni,

    I think you'll find that was the fault of the oppressive human users who over (and possibly unevenly) loaded the poor innocent hatstand!

  77. Habib

    It has been bought to my attention that on the
    night of my one off car crash on UT a few weeks agoi called you PAKI on several occasions.I do remember saying to you something along the lines of 'These White people call you Paki bwoi'.And i do remember immediatelyapologising to you.Even though i was ranting and raving CYBER style i don,t honestly remember using the term several times as has been alleged.

    It has also been said that not only were you deeply
    offended but was also suggested that it is because
    of me that you don,t post so regularly anymore .
    I hope that isn,t the case because i thought we were
    cool.Just wanted to say to you once again that
    i am genuinely sorry for the pain and hurt i
    caused you in my 'mad moment' a few weeks ago.

    Obviously as a Black man i am in no position to
    complain about being called a NIGGA if i use
    the 'P' word.Thing is i genuinely don,t remeber
    using the term several times in the way others
    have said.But i do remember apologising to you
    in particular several times -even for saying
    These White people call you Paki Bwoi '-unacceptable
    on my part.

    Again i,m sorry for the pain i caused you a few
    weeks ago and if my presence on UT is inhibitig
    your enjoyment here then let me know and i,ll
    gladly stop posting.

  78. I always park my hat on the floor. It's easier to find when I join it at the end of the day.

  79. Whato Deano. Unfortunately I have to be at a meeting and know what the f@ck I'm doing tomorrow 9.00 am. I will have a beer, but early finish. Feck !

    Am I allowed to say "feck" ?

  80. Afternoon all.....

    BW:Anyone fancy a pint ?

    are you joking!! I'd love a pint....your round or mine?

  81. Gotcha, andy. On reflection, I thought that it was irony. Nicely done ;0)

    A bit of 'popular culture' for the hatstand-challenged. And please don't shoot the messenger here, I'm not claiming this is big or clever, or even funny. It's just completely hatstand

    Ain't the English language wonderful? A constant source of pleasure and offence.

  82. Gandalfo

    Your pic of small dog with camel is one my favourites.

  83. gandolfo
    My shout - what's your poison ?

    Bugger. Now I really do fancy a pint... hmm... I feeel an early finish coming on...

  84. BW - noooo! Not the early finish!

  85. scherfig:

    As we’re both in irony mode now, here’s my response to your comment @15.00, written before I read the one @ 15.13.

    “Next time I'll say 'odd' or 'eccentric'. Would that be acceptable to you or would that also 'seem' to you to be an offensive allusion to someone's 'mental stability'?”
    You’re digging yourself ever deeper, mate. Can’t see why you should use either of those words in a semi-derogatory fashion.
    Nothing wrong with being odd - 50% of whole numbers are odd, I believe, though we’ve been subtly brainwashed into thinking that odd is bad and even is good. Equal rights for the odd!
    As an Irishman living in Denmark, you may be unaware of the proud tradition of English eccentricity, or, more likely, this is a subconscious example of your innate anti-English bias.
    Why not simply say:
    “I disagree with many of this person’s opinions, and I find his method of arguing them unconvincing”
    There, no need to resort to personal attacks, is there?
    I’m about to read your piece on Untrusted 2. Goodness only knows what vile and scurrilous nonsense I’ll find there…

    And now I’m off for a while. Back in a few hours for the Election Night Special…

  86. Hee hee, Roger Irrelavent, I used to love Viz especially the top tips and letters.

    I can remember laughing for ages over a letter from Patrick Thistle from Partick Thistle, why I found that especially amusing I can't remember but I did.

    I wonder what it is like now, it is still running isn't it?

  87. Sherfig

    How do we describe completely irrational ideas - I have come up with some in my time. Sometimes the ideas themselves are not so daft simply impracticable in a given situation.

    How can we legitimately describe the Rapturists ? Can we call them mad or dangerous - do we have to respect and give credence to their beliefs?

  88. "Won't you spare a thought for those of us who don't even have a hatstand?"

    I dont even own A hat, let alone many hats that would necessitate a hatstand.

  89. Thx, andy. I'm a bit concerned about your somewhat casual use of the often pejorative word 'Irishman', but I find your method totally 'convincing', so that's cool.

    See you later, alligator.

    (Disclaimer: please note that this phrase is not intended to be in any way anti-reptilian, but has anybody seen 'V'?)

  90. I might buy some wine for tonight - it does unpredictable things to my brain but I suspect I am not going to be happy with the world of reality as the results start to come in.

    Hi Jenni

  91. Andysays, thank oyu. Yes I am consideirng volunteering for something, but I would prefer paid work, at least then I would earn something. Sounds very nice in Cornwall. I do like that kind of outdoorsy type stuff, I volunteered as a voluntary ranger for a bit when I was 18. Where I live now, there is a lot of urban blight et, but it would atill be rewarding volunteering with people.

    Going on benefits is not an option, as I have savings over the threshhold, from an inheritence, tied away in shares. I am not going to waste on frivolites

    Right now I feel absolutely awful thugh, I need a lie down and later I will go out for some fresh air and exercise

  92. @BW, Deanno, Gandolfo. Well you guy's are playing catch up, cos I've had three. Nae Green candidate here, so I went with the fish party, (Salmond & Sturgeon), If the tory gets in by 1 vote I'll be kicking my self...

    @ Bitey, what's your address so i can invoice you for posting my UT jokes on Cif?

  93. Scherfig - wot you on about? 'Irishman' is obviously the highest compliment one can make - next to 'Irishwoman', of course.

  94. BW Cheers!! frankly after 4 months on the wagon I'm up for anything!.....howabout a pint of your "best" followed by a whiskey chaser.......and then it's my round......

    Leni thanks....the beast is barking at me as I type..not the camel I hasten to add.....!

  95. Jay Reilly,

    Waynes World.

    Do I win a prize?

  96. Yeah, you're right, thauma. I just felt really offended for a bit. I'm over it now.

  97. Hi guys

    hope you are enjoying the election haha like you know you make a difference not.

    Do keep advocating some basic psychology as a good thing, does help you know. Own that madness is what I say. Anyway may pop in an out.

  98. turminderxuss
    Good man. Salmond's grown on me in the last five years...

    After yr four months on the wagon I'll gladly get you that whiskey chaser.

    "Own that madness is what I say." Damn right.

  99. Scherf "...Ain't the English language wonderful? A constant source of pleasure and offence...."

    As must always one day happen - I couldn't agree more.

    I keep wanting to say to our hungry new young friend Nap .....that favoured word or yours 'feckless'........


    feckless- Of a thing: valueless, futile, feeble. In later use chiefly of a person (or a person's actions or attributes): lacking vigour, energy, or capacity; weak, helpless; (now more usually) irresponsible, shiftless.

    hapless: - Destitute of ‘hap’ or good fortune; unfortunate, unlucky, luckless.

    The difference between feckless and hapless is, perhaps, the grace of god - discuss.

    The overuse of the word feckless, when the word hapless might equally have been slotted into the sentence, requires careful thought, if one is to avoid sounding pretentious - discuss.

    But what the fuck do I know Nap

    However, I would respectfully ask you to note how... the weak and feeble so easily became, with the passage of time and ill considered usage, the irresponsible and shiftless. This is the University of the Untrusted after all.

  100. Oh the whiskeys on me, have Lagavullins all round, with a wee drap o water, compliments the pint o Stella perfectly!

  101. Deano

    Agree about feckless - bad word.

    Feck (should we be lucky enough to own it ) originally meant having the power to effect change.

  102. Turminder

    Too much of the spirit can rob you of feck and ultimately, possibly, of hap.

    How much does a National drink determine National character I wonder .

  103. I am determined to be disciplined.

    Gandolfo got me off to an early and lengthy Christmas with a link showing a trailer for one of my favourite films - " The Vikings"

    Get thee behind me turm

  104. Catch u all in a bit, round 2 in the other village pub for me!

  105. turminder
    Lagavullin ? - cool as feck !

    Laters hombres.

  106. scherfig

    Was you a likkle bit offended earlier in a possible
    misunderstanding with another poster?

    After everything you,ve said on the issue of freedom
    of speech?And your personal right to exercise it as
    and when you please?And fuck anyone who doesn,t like

    The irony!

    LOL !!!!!

  107. Afternoon all

    Lovefilm have just sent me Breaking and Entering and am sorely tempted to watch that and ignore the bloody election. turnout seems to have been quite high round here. Don't know whether that will be reflected nationally - hope so as it reduces the chances of the bnp getting a seat.

    Have we used up our weekly quota of offence yet? Or can we drop a bit in from time to time to liven things up a bit.

    Anyone know anything about Alan Moore of Watchmen and V for Vendetta fame? He seems to have some curious and interesting ideas.

    Right - time for the first drink...

  108. Paul, you don't seem to get irony, do you? Have you read the current piece on Untrusted Too, btw?

    Napoleon, I'd be interested in your response to the UT2 piece. It's got the lot - Muslims, immigrants, the health service (Danish), politics etc.

    sheff, an offence quota? Nobody told me!
    Re Alan Moore and 'Watchmen', try this I think you can download the whole lot from amazon.com. It's interesting stuff. Moore's 'V For Vendetta' is also a fairly decent movie.

  109. scherfig

    Oh i do get irony mate!

    You do make me laugh!

    btw I,m glad you,ve stopped lurking and are posting
    again! Seriously!

  110. Evening all - where you been James? Good breakdown of the BNP thing...

    Re plane-crash, I've always felt like 'farage' is the termm a posh bloke would use for a cock-up. You know. "oh, and he made a total farage of the landing..."

    Atomboy - what constituency you in? will keep an eye out for it...

    Did Moore do the original From Hell? And then disown the filmed result? Watched it last night, quite liked it, but was a bit limited because they didn't have the VO option, so was trying to understand it in French.

    Still, meant I didn't have to deal with Depp and Graham's accents, suppose...

  111. Fucksocks. With all those applications I got from the JC, I did not realise that for many to go further with applying you have to phone the special JC phone number which is an 0845 number. Bloody insane. Anyway, I've wasted another day today. Do we live in the age of the internet or what. Fuck.

  112. scherfig, I have not read the UT2 piece. If I have free time I will read it. Now though, I need to get out of the house, it is driving me mad.

  113. Scherfig
    Like the UT2 thing. Got a question on there for you.

    Nah, save it for another day... crack open the vino and join the shouting.

  114. scherf

    an offence quota? Nobody told me!

    Given the amount of angst that is evident round here I took it as read. Your piece on UT2 cheered me up no end. She sounds like a great woman. We need more people like her.

  115. Philippa, Alan Moore has loudly, angrily, and very publicly disowned every film project that involved his comic books ((From Hell, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, V for Vendetta, and Watchmen). But he keeps giving permission for film versions of his work. Funny, that.

  116. scherf - so it was him, thought so.

    Mind you, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was feckin' horrible.

    And I'm a big fan of Jason Flemyng.

  117. deano
    I'll do another link......behave.....;)

    whiskey chasers....oh yessssssss!!!!

    right I'm off to eat with friends I'll be back later no doubt pissed......

  118. Interesting piece on UT2 Scherf - thanks for that.

    Seems a long time since women like Barbara Castle were held in high regard only for it all to fall to the benefit of that red haired arrogant dwarfess from Salford.

    I hope that Ozlem manages to keep distance between herself and such shit role models.

  119. Advice

    What time do things start getting interesting tonight? I have to be at work at 7.45 tomorrow morning and dont fancy an all nighter so was thinking of getting a few hours sleep at some point.

    1am? 2? 3?

  120. Right. I've done it. I've been up the street and voted for the other lot. Been wracked with indecision for a few weeks. What won it:

    Incumbent = parachuted in on all-women shortlist in from Central London union/press-relations job in '96, upper middle class and knew nothing about my factory town. Still doesn't. I don't like her as a constiuency MP, all middle ground platitudes and wearing veils to important Mosques. No obvious feel for local history or many local needs.

    The guy I voted for is local and has campaigned successfully as a councillor for some issues I strongly agreed with - against a very fucking venal and inept Tory council.

    To boot, my incumbent has voted 99% in favour of government. Her profile
    Voted very strongly for replacing Trident. votes
    Voted very strongly for more EU integration.
    Voted strongly for introducing student top-up fees.
    Voted moderately for a transparent Parliament.
    Voted very strongly for Labour's anti-terrorism laws.
    Voted very strongly for introducing ID cards.
    Voted very strongly for a stricter asylum system.
    Voted very strongly for introducing foundation hospitals.
    Voted very strongly for the Iraq war.
    Voted very strongly against an investigation into the Iraq war.
    Voted very strongly for equal gay rights.
    Voted moderately against laws to stop climate change.
    Voted moderately for introducing a smoking ban.
    Voted very strongly for the hunting ban.

    Final decider: Lab majority only 4000 votes in 2005, DECREASED by boundary change. Lib Dem came third last time, but scalped both other big ones by 1.5% each on boundary change.

    Not to mention a vote for them keeops the Tories out.

    Using the formula that if I don't vote I increase the Tories chances, and if I do vote for her, I vote for an unprincipled shitbag who's type has ruined Labour for a generatuion, I am going against the plea of today's Socialist Worker: Vote Labour. #

    Fuck it. Wat's done is done. Fact is, if a green vote hadn't equated to Tory one I'd have done that.

    Guilty as charged then. I so hope I haven't fucked up... I know there's little real difference between the big three, but my logic says if I don't vote it may as well be a thumbs up to the BNP. And fuck them.

    ---- Epilogue
    Farage crashed thirty miles from here. Half my office cheered when they heard...

  121. there's a blog up with estimated reporting times here which suggests that 2-3am is when things really kick off (although my constituency isn't expected until 6am, boo).

    my proxy has just informed me that my vote has now been cast (hurrah!) after a twenty minute search for my name, which turned up all by itself on a separate section of the list...

    am on second G&T. this could get messy.

  122. Philippa

    (Bless you for noticing)

    I have spent the last week house hunting, and, if anyone is interested in the workings of the Brazilian housing market, I can honestly say that it's about as close to hell on earth as anything I have yet experienced.

    I am therefore taking a well earned break to enjoy this evenings festivities....

    (although BBC world seem to have put the kibosh on that somewhat, by apparently only having two hours of election night coverage...)

  123. PhilippaB
    Get stuck in.

    "this could get messy"

    Should be a temporary UT banner ?

  124. really? I've got BBC World News kicking off at 22.45 (CEST) all through the night. Is BBC World different?

    House hunting! fun. try the french system next time you're getting disheartened - new flatmate is 'temporary' while searching for a flat to buy. can see this becoming rather permanent rather quickly...

  125. bitterweed - I've got to pace myself an hour ahead of normal, and be in a fit state to research job op tomorrow before an interview at 2, so am reconciled to navigating an online demo with a hangover and zero tech skills.

    and once i start making punch, things are only going to get worse....

  126. BBC World is shite. I've tried watching it in India and Egypt and all they seem to do is fetishise the markets. Seems to be aimed at business travellers; and starved of analysis.

  127. "so am reconciled to navigating an online demo with a hangover and zero tech skills."

    Huh. OK. But in fairness That's when some of my best moves have come out. Use the force....

  128. James I noticed you AWOL too but hoped you might have had a hot encounter.

  129. ..Use the force....

    BW - good on you Bro.

  130. James, if you download TVUPlayer you might be able to get the ITV coverage. Failing that, BBC 5Live are doing radio coverage from 10pm.

  131. No offence but you can stick the Brazilian housing nmarket up you complacent arse..

  132. Oh fuck the antibotics they've done their good work - I am off to lay in stocks.

  133. For no other reason than someone's just sent me it and I like it, here's this

  134. Or Radio 4 through your 'puter kicking off coverage at 10pm BST...

  135. Philippa

    (Without wanting to get into a pissing contest), the Brazilian market is so, so bizarre, that I've spent most of the last week walking around in a state of total bewilderment.

    Houses are valued by their owners to start with, which means that I've literally looked at sheds that are on the market for £500k (which is a lot here), because that's what the owner thinks it's worth, and is unwilling to negotiate, despite gentle hints by the estate agent that they're out of their fucking minds.

    As a result, the agent explained to me that I'm effectively looking for houses that I can buy in three years, when the owners figure this out and drop their prices.

    'Are there any houses that are in that position now?', I asked...

    'Yes, but they're already sold' he answered.

    It's like Location, Location, Location meets Kafka.

    Absolutely mental.


    BBC World is shite. I've tried watching it in India and Egypt and all they seem to do is fetishise the markets. Seems to be aimed at business travellers; and starved of analysis.

    Absolutely. And golf too. Starved of analysis and golf!!

  136. misharialadwani
    Nice comment, although I don't know James and am not sure how he may feel. What else can be stuck up arses tonight ?

    I'm starting with the entire BBC and their ubiquitous assumption that theirs, ITV's and Murdochs's coverage of the "big debates" has brought peace and understanding to the world. Oh, and democracy.

  137. Bloody hell. that does indeed make the french system look, well, sane.

    and that takes some bloody work.

  138. James Dixon
    Speaking of golf, I played a round with Stephen Hawking last week. Bastard lied about his handicap...

  139. scherfig

    Cheers, I'll give it a listen if it's not just a scheduling error on BBC world.


    (Bless you too). You'd been absent for a few days last time I was here also, so it's nice to 'hear' from you again.


    No offence taken, (although I am a little confused)!!!

  140. Alan Moore is a god! for xmas I got a signed (Moore & GIbbons) 1st ed UK Watchmen. Ya Dancer!

    He doesn't give permission for the films as that is the purview of the publisher. He gives all his royalties to the artists (of the comics). I'd love to check his "Lost Girls" he wrote it and his wife drew it, but is mucho ££.

  141. "... The BBC journalist Martha Kearney, who is presenting tonight's election results programme on Radio 4, could be in trouble.

    My colleague Matt Wells points out that she appears to have broken the BBC's election rules by tweeting the following:

    Senior Tory tells me they have small overall majority.

    and this:

    Lab campaign source tells they think 310-320 for Cons; 280 for Lab. 71% turnout..."

  142. Could yet be Nick the lads night!

  143. Evenin' all

    Three for Leni from Will, on this suspicious night:

    Tis the times' plague, when madmen lead the blind

    The lamentable change is from the best;
    the worst returns to laughter.

    Oh gods! Who is't can say "I am at the worst"?
    I am worse than e'er I was
    And worse I may be yet: the worst is not
    So long as we can say "this is the worst".

    Glad I'll be in great company tonight. Next can is for all of us here.

  144. BB - time to sack your fegging accountant. Where are you?

    We know your having problems with your netbook but you accountant should have explained a lady of your profession and stature is entitled to have a spare.

    Think of all that VAT to be recovered and tax to be avoided no off to the shops on the morrow I tell you. If things go to form tonight your pension will be worthless and should be cashed in and spent forthwith.


    Stoaty Drop in if, as expected, you fly by.

  145. Cheers Bro habib - I will happily raise a glass and join you

  146. Deano
    Hope yr feeling better mate
    I see a caravan has been used as a polling station in Notts.

    I think you missed a trick there

  147. This comment has been removed by the author.

  148. Paul, mate, stick around we'll talk properly, later.

    Right, off to get ready for a drunken night of work (I'm so irresponsible, but I do have a tory boss and she is a ManU fan, at that! Could be a double whammy in the next few days... the bloody revolution might start here in Manchester... )

  149. hey heyhabib!

    G&T#3. possibly silly...

    Always used to assume that "oh what a tangled web" was ol'Will as well. does fit, though...

  150. BW What you mean I could have consulted Hank before setting fire to the votes I was unhappy with? By the time he'd had his pennyworth too it would have been nil return.

    Any news of him joining us all in Sheffield?

  151. PB Good on you young miss. I like serious pundits like your good-self.

    No one of note ever said anything, worth a recall, on less than 3GT.

    In my book it matters not who said it or, even within a millennium or two, when - if it has owt to do with evil or black art - it was Thatcher what done and said it.

  152. Right, it took me all day, but I finally managed to submit my job application, which I am 99% sure I will not get.

    Now, relax a bit, study a bit. I have some more of that Belgian cherry beer. It is slighly expensive, but then I am a light drinker.

  153. deano
    Ha ha,
    and no,not yet, will consult the man when dates start firming up. - I'm out gigging a bit in June July Aug - also my mum's 70th early aug - so hope my free dates fit in with the others'.

    It will be grand !

  154. this could get messy"

    Should be a temporary UT banner ?


    Philippa, thanks for the link. My constituency: midnight. The chances of my managing to stay awake until then are very small, but I shall try!

    Tory bastard was inside the polling station trying to get people's card numbers off them.

    Habib: As flies are to wanton boys, are we to the gods: they kill us for their sport.

  155. An interesting thought from the Guard:

    "...All eyes will be on the exit polls from 10pm, so a couple of interesting posts on polling to leave you with.

    The FT has cast doubt on the accuracy of exit polls. I'm not sure if you'll be able to read it behind the FT's paywall, but some of the reasons it gives for saying we shouldn't put too much faith in exit polls are:

    • One in six voters refuse to respond to an opinion poll
    • Up to one in five votes will be cast by post
    • The exit polling sample barely covers Lib-Lab marginals
    • Boundary changes muck up what historic data is available
    • It's a mad rush to manage the data and make a prediction

    And finally, Political Betting's Mike Smithson asks whether the "golden rule" will survive the night.

    He defines the rule, making his case with a number of examples, as: "This is that whenever polls have been tested against real election results it's been the survey with Labour in the least favourable position that has been the most accurate."

    He goes on to add: "That Angus Reid 24% Labour share looks pretty low...."

    The FT reports:

    "Seven reasons to be wary of the exit poll tonight
    May 6, 2010 4:40pmby Alex Barker | Share
    Exit polling is tricky at the best of times. Attempting it in Britain is a nightmare. The joint BBC/ITV exit poll correctly predicted the 66 seat majority in 2005. Don’t expect it to be as accurate tonight.

    The experts have to work around duff information There’s no data on voting at individual polling stations. The census is nine years out of date. Local election ward returns are a flawed guide to voting patterns for a general election.

    One in six voters refuse to respond to an exit poll It’s a mind your own business answer. And no one knows if these people disproportionately vote for one party.

    Up to one in five votes will be cast by post These voters cunningly by-pass the exit pollsters. Around 12 per cent voted this way last time, and the proportion is rising. Most of them sent in their ballots around the peak of Cleggmania.

    The traditional swingometer may be obsolete Even if they get the vote share correct, there’s a good chance the seat prediction will be flawed. See more on this here and here.

    The exit polling sample barely covers Lib-Lab marginals Because there is no data from on individual polling stations, the wonks calculate the change from the 2001 and 2005 exit polls. It covers around 120 polling stations. But there’s only data on three Lib-Lab marginals. That’s why the Lib Dem vote share prediction was too low in 2005. The problem will be even greater this year.

    Boundary changes muck up what historic data is available Since 2001, many boundaries have been revised. Some polling stations in the sample have been split in half, so how do you calculate the change in voting? On top of that, people move, meaning many polling stations serving very different communities.

    It’s a mad rush to manage the data and make a prediction It’s a Thursday. Most people vote after they’ve been to work. That gives the boffins very little time to make the calculations. They’re working to a 10pm deadline and data is still streaming through until 7pm.

    There are some seriously big brains deployed to build models that iron out these wrinkles. (One of their more basic forecasting equations is below.) You can read about their 2005 experience in this excellent paper, or Chris Giles’ astute take on the work of the exit poll boffins and the future of the swingometer.

    John Curtice and Colin Firth, who led the team in 2005, have said that they “fully acknowledge that getting the headline forecast exactly right owed much to luck”. They’ll need bags of it this evening."

    I always tend to give the FT a little extra weighting in my reading. We shall of course see.

  156. Exit polls are always shady, and keeping that in mind will save us from being the US, where the networks 'call' the election on the basis of them.

    Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer to wait for the vote to be called.

  157. Nap My dear young friend...
    "...I have some more of that Belgian cherry beer. It is slighly expensive, but then I am a light drinker...£"
    every pisshead I know started out with those very famous words of yours.

    Ask Aunt thuuma if you don't believe me.

    thauma standard practice to ask for the card number - its' so you can work out if all your declared supporters have turned out/fallen asleep etc.

    Many's the car I have driven with urgency to get ours out before the poll finally closed.

  158. I know you know thaum - it's just the sort of nonsense commentary I used to give to my kids when they were helping me lure the ladies out (old habits die hard() - sorry I'll be damned for patronising you if I'm not careful.

    ps - you should have asked the Police to eject the bastard from inside the Polling Station though - it would have made good local news!

  159. Thanks for the exit polls stuff Deano.

    The Tories at my church hall wanted my number and told them no. I know it's only for them to tick off their own people who have committed so they can 3-line whip latecomers and offer lifts Christ knows my family's dining room was used often enough over the forty years to keep tabs on all this for the Labour Party.

    I just didn't want my number to even be an infinitessimal tory opportunity to focus their last couple of hours...

  160. Damn my ward is so fucking marginal. Can't we just flamethrower the lot and say "None of the Above" ? Works in Athens.

  161. turminder

    My son showed me some footage from a film made about Alan Moore. (my son's a fan apparently) Moore was talking about 'information' in a very interesting and unusual way.

    Its here if you're interested.

  162. This comment has been removed by the author.

  163. Meanwhile, here are the New Seekers. All their lives are circles

    Aren't they all, arent they all...

  164. Right, am round the mister's (as he has a telly) and currently in process of rolling up. Wine is poured.

  165. Deano

    you should have asked the Police to eject the bastard from inside the Polling Station though - it would have made good local news!

    Don't make me laugh. We don't have police in the village.

  166. Philibee, carry on with G&T's, but I'd switch to pints of bitter if the glorious rev' happens...

    Thauma, tis true, sticking with Lear:
    Gordon Brown: Dost thou call me fool, boy?
    Fool: All thy other titles thou hast given away.

  167. Off for the bus to work, have a few for me?

  168. Alan Moore has, I think, made up his own religion where he worships a giant snake. Sounds like a sound bloke, is all I can say...

    Fine work by habib...

    Have made up the Tory and LibDem punches, as we're mostly out of tonic, for some reason, so can't make the Labour one...ahem.

  169. I'd worship a giant snake too.

  170. Deano:

    Interesting to read that piece from the FT about exit polls.

    The ”experts” having been saying this is likely to be the closest election for years, which, with all the other reasons mentioned, suggests to me that exit polls are even less likely to be accurate than previously.

    Talking of the FT, I hear that they’re predicting the most likely outcome is that the Tories will be able to form a coalition with the Unionist parties from Northern Ireland.

    Can anyone remind me of how many seats there are up for grabs in NI, and how many of them are likely to go to the Unionists?

  171. last election result for NI seats
    DUP 9
    SF 5
    UU 1
    SDLP 3

    so 18 seats unless one of the 4 added seats is over there, which I doubt.

  172. PB "...There are some seriously big brains deployed to build models that iron out these wrinkles. (One of their more basic forecasting equations is below.)..."

    Formula won't copy and paste so here's the link to the article complete with formula if you want to slow down you GT intake for a minute or so:

     Forecast formula

    Right that's more than enough rambling from me. i must get on and cook me dinner.


  173. Andy
    Talking of the FT, I hear that they’re predicting the most likely outcome is that the Tories will be able to form a coalition with the Unionist parties from Northern Ireland.

    god...what an appalling thought. Andy...I think you've just ruined my evening.

  174. Philippa:

    Thanks for that. Quick work – are you tapped into the Newsnight database?

    If they need 326 seats for an overall majority, then the ten the Unionists can expect would still leave them needing 316, so as I thought, not that much difference. Maybe I didn’t get the thrust of what the FT was saying.

    Also, “Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer to wait for the vote to be called.”

    Unfortunately, it sometimes seems that the actual votes cast by the actual voters are viewed by the parties and the pundits as a bit of an inconvenience, a distraction from the real business at hand which is the media merry-go-round.

  175. andy - no, just anal enough to have checked the current position a couple of hours ago, which I have written on a notepad nearby...

    all available rumours seem to be for a small Tory majority.

  176. According to my revised BBC world schedule, we kick off in 15 minutes.

    Should the worst happen, I'd just like to take this opportunity to say that it's been a pleasure 'knowing' you all.....

  177. Sheff:

    “what an appalling thought. Andy...I think you've just ruined my evening”

    Sorry, that was not my intention.

    I mentioned it because it seemed a little off the wall, and I didn’t think that the NI Unionists would have enough seats to make that much difference except in a very close result. And Philippa’s figures seem to confirm that.

    Maybe I should refrain from attempting to predict the future and go back to attempts at irony…

  178. andy - thing is that a 'minority' has been seen as very difficult - fall way short and yes, they would need a coalition partner - but given the DUP, a small majority might not actually prevent governing alone (they'd have to hand over devon, or something, but it could work...)

    james - I've moved onto the punch, and hope to be anaesthetised beore the Barking result comes in (cops out in force - clearly no trouble expected at all)

  179. damnit - small minority...

  180. Sheff: Great linky to Alan Moore about information!

  181. Philippa:

    Majority/minority, don't worry - it's only a couple of letters difference.

    I think I’m getting the gist of the idea now though, which is that the Tories could depend on the tacit support of the Unionists, and so wouldn’t need an overall majority to govern. Maybe, maybe not.

    And I hope that handing over Devon (handing it over to who?) isn’t part of any post-election deal, because then I’ll be stranded here in Cornwall and unable to return to London for my GF’s birthday in a few weeks…

  182. "Alan Moore has, I think, made up his own religion where he worships a giant snake."

    Here's David Coverdale. It ain't easy being a 'snake

  183. Philippa,

    Yeah, tonight might just be the night that I start drinking again...

  184. andysays
    That's probably a trip you need to make.

    BTW when *didn't* Unionists seal a Tory victory ? Am I being thick... ?

  185. Thanx Sheff, loved th AM link. Good luck 1 n all, I'm off to bed. Cu all on the other side!

  186. BBC1 call conservatives 307 seats??

  187. BW:

    Train tickets already booked.

    I think the point sheff was making (and if it was I agree with her) is that the one thing worse than a Tory majority would be a minority Tory govt. dependant on the backing of the Unionists and hence actually driven to some extent by Paisleyites.

    Have we ever literally had that? I don’t remember if we have.

    News just in from BBC World Service exit poll:

    Tories 20 short of overall majority, which makes the Unionist nightmare scenario more likely…

  188. I may be gone some little time.........

  189. Not actual news obviously, prediction, but still not cause for celebration.

  190. I'm losing the will to live

  191. andysays: I seem to remember that it was Conservative and Unionist Party under Ted Heath.

  192. Indy article:

    "...Northern Ireland: Ulster's Unionists claim cash pledge from Brown
    DUP reveals letter from PM promising no public spending cuts in the face of a possible hung parliament

    By David McKittrick
    DUP leader Peter Robinson meets residents of east Belfast yesterday while on the election campaign trail

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    The Democratic Unionist party in Belfast last night triumphantly produced a letter from Gordon Brown which they claimed shows that they are being wooed for their support in a hung parliament.

    In the text Mr Brown explicitly agrees to the DUP demand that public spending in Northern Ireland will not be cut in the current financial year. This has been the party's primary stipulation for lending its support to a government without a majority in the new parliament. It had been expected that any new government would make cuts in the money provided from London to Belfast

  193. Have we already heard the crack of doom ? I refuse to believe the exit poll. No-no - no.