18 May 2010

18/05/10

The Bruges Matins took place in 1302.  The Flemish militia massacred almost the entire French garrison.  The colony of Rhode Island passed the first law in North America which made slavery illegal in 1652.  Bram Stoker's Dracula was published in 1897.  The eruption of Mt. St. Helens in Washington in 1980 killed 57 people and caused $3,000,000,000 damage.

Born today:  Omar Khayyám (1048-1131), Bertrand Russell (1872-1970), Walter Gropius (1883-1969), Frank Capra (1897-1991), Fred Perry (1909-1995), Perry Como (1912-2001), Walter Sisulu (1912-2003), Margot Fonteyn (1919-1991) and Rick Wakeman (1949).

It is Revival, Unity and Poetry of Magtymguly Day in Turkmenistan.

174 comments:

  1. Can I correct it? Happy to do so just don't know how!

    Will try to find out!

    BTW after last nights little 'discussion' not surprised you don't know what day it is. :)

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  2. I'll see if I can fix it....

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  3. Hi Montana,

    After skim reading last night's thread I just wanted to say I appreciate what you do here and thank you!

    Also, think the urine question got answered didn't it?

    As for the lowest form of life, there isn't one: if you accept that all life originated around the same time then it's all equally evolved: think tips of tree branches, rather than a ladder.

    If you're looking for an insult I like: "You're pocket lint, pocket lint in the pockets of lawyers"

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  4. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  5. Just watch the Url tmra...

    Can't post links at wk but Nap's spitting the dummy did put me in mind of Kevin Turvey... ; )

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  6. There a4re so meti



    if only I was sober - I will say I love you Montana and I am sad you are in Cowpat junction and not here in York town

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  7. Georgina Henry's farewell piece has just gone up - so far everyone's being awfully, awfully nice.

    I feel a comment about moderation coming up...

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  8. Fat twat - young Nap


    The art of fucking a wonderful lass is in seeing what is behind her eyes and thus her being.

    Whilst I love the shadow ladies tits cast the fact is its not between a ladies legs that the wonder lies but forever between her sense bits.

    I sometimes wish I were not cuntstruck but mostly I am glad that I am.

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  9. PeterJ - I'm pretty sure that if need be, my spare `62 year old alcohol riddled kidney could be put at you dispose.

    If it would fit - I don't tell part time tales thus it can be yours.

    deano.

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  10. Aw, you old romantic Deanno, you ask her to look over her shoulder do you? ; )

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  11. Morning all

    just want to say a big thanks to montana for creating this site and everyone that contributes here

    napolean
    seriously mate you need to get out and experience life rather than living it through books your perception of reality, from what I can gather from your posts, is fundamentally patronising and very egocentric on your part. It appears that you have learnt to be critical about others of whom you know nothing, how about learning to listening to others, their experiences. Use your capacity to criticise on yourself as well and accept that how you see the world isn't necessarily how others see it because they have experienced and lived a whole lot more than you have.
    Books, yes to a point can be interesting and helpful, but life experiences count a whole lot more.....

    Dott
    "You're pocket lint, pocket lint in the pockets of lawyers"
    nice but lost on berlusco too sophisticated...:)

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  12. My dearest young Miss.... Leni

    "....only connect......"

    The love of my life - my 'sometime' once gave me a Christmas present , a simple bookmark on which were written the immortal words ............."only.....

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  13. Just caught up on the posts from last night and now I am a little bit embarassed that I tried to be conciliatory towards Nap, not because it is wrong to try and reach out to those you have major differences with but because he obviously isn't listening.

    A couple of thoughts Nap, how has Glasgow been solidly socialist for 50 years?

    We have not had anything like a socialist government in Britain for any of the time I have been alive, do you mean socialist in the same way that Republicans say Obama is socialist?

    And you condemn Montana for swearing at you yet you feel totally comfortable telling Deano to STFU.

    One rule for you and one for others then, that's pretty typical of you.

    You haven't worked because of your circumstances and you can't find a job now because of those circumstances and that seems fine to you because you know the details and know that you are not 'feckless' just unlucky.

    But all those other people out of work don't deserve the same consideration because they are 'shameless' and lazy.

    You judge and judge and then judge some more without ever seeing those people you judge as human beings with the same rights and troubles as yourself.

    No excuses from me for youth, you claim great intellect well use it for something other than sneering.

    And running away because people don't agree with you is a bad sign, the attitudes you hold are bearable in a 20 year old but if you continue to only engage with those who agree with you nothing will ever change and you will be an unbearable 40 year old.

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  14. Thanks Thauma!

    Things like that confuse me!

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  15. turm - nice one my young Anglo Indian friend.

    Truth be known I mostly have little recollection of my lovemaking, let alone the orifice of entry................I just like women and all that it is about them..................

    I kinda imagine it starts with a simple construct something akin to ............"I don't suppose...." and it ends with me smiling and panting .....pure bliss.

    I wish I had a better understanding of the business but the fact is I don't.

    I was trying to tell young Nap about the significance of the diff between a belief/understanding based on nature or nurture but he unlike Duke missed the echo.

    Regards young turm.

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  16. Hello friend in the Philippines

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  17. Montana can I also thankyou for starting UT? It really does mean a lot to me.

    I like the fact that we are human and therefore can be trivial sometimes.

    I also believe that its good to have people on here that disagree with us completely - good training for taking up issues with real people in the real world.

    Not that you aren't all real of course...

    Jennifera - don't be sorry you tried to engage always a good plan to try - especially with the young.

    He is young and like many of the young he is arrogant, we can just hope that he will learn something from life.

    You never know what we have said may eventually bear fruit. Opinions are personal things - a comfort zone - its painful to change them.

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  18. Nap - whatever could have been going through the mind of the tosser when he said words to the effect:

    "...if I have seen further it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants.........."

    Discuss - with emphasis on the pygmies who feed and clothed him.

    Personally I think Newton well understood the "Collectivist" nature of real learning.

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  19. Hi guys,

    Just a suggestion, can we leave off the Nap bashing until he's back to defend himself?

    I am...

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  20. Dotterel

    That was my last comment on the subject.

    I liked your pocket lint insult although I fear it would be over the head of a lot of people I know, belly button fluff might work though. ;)

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  21. Dotterel
    fair enough, but yesterday he was posting at midnight and 3 am my time, I'm usually tucked up in bed then and frankly I'm not willing to stay up to post in Napolean real time.... :)

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  22. Afternoon all

    Can i appeal to people to 'hold fire' with regard to
    Napoleon.He,s young and vulnerable and until he finds
    his feet i think he should be treated with 'kid gloves'.

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  23. Dotty - my lovely.............

    no soul of significance here basheth Nap - truth be known the lad has had a disproportionate amount of attention and affection.

    Now since I am bored and finding the bits between my full stops tedious I must now direct my attention to that unresolved question of your gender.

    Truth be known young Dott I don't give a toss about what lies between your legs. I am confident that if I were to fall down drunk before you and glance up my gaze would only confirm what I know.

    I like you for how you write(and of course what you write) not the shadow your tits may or may not cast.

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  24. I have a fondness for Nap and a conviction that he will return to UT.

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  25. Scherfig - much as I admire the contribution you have made here at UT I think your analysis of the place of late is plain wrong.

    I think when I'm several days sober I'll try and explain why.

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  26. Thanks Anne for realising that I was trying to do the right thing (the swearing thing was a drunken mistake).

    I just keep remembering how when I was 16 and first went to a secular sixth form (having been brought up Catholic) I felt attacked at every side for some of my (I thought sensible ideas).

    I never actually believed in god but I was good and indoctrinated on issues like abortion and homosexuality, I honestly thought it all made sense.

    I was so sheltered about sex it is shocking to me to look back at how idiotic I was.

    In sixth form I finally butted up against people who were actually dealing with it, my best friend at the time had a pregnancy scare and I am totally ashamed of the shit I put her through for considering an abortion.

    When she first told me I basically called her a murderer (that was a total knee jerk reaction) and after I had a sleepless night actually thinking about it rather than just reacting I apologised to her profusely and totally but things were never the same between us.

    So 16 was my wake up call, I went from a person who could condemn an action from an ideological stance to a person who actually thought about consequences.

    Didn't want to mention Nap but I suspect he hasn't had his wake up moment yet.

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  27. Quick comment as I'm getting ready for work (I always read as I'm eating brekkie/putting on make-up -- which I do at my desk -- but don't usually take time to comment, since my mornings are hectic, as it is)

    Thank you for all the kind words -- I honestly didn't say what I did to scherfig to fish for gratitude, but it is nice to know that this place matters to others.

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  28. Jennifer, not my insult unfortunately, it's from a TV program (I think) but my head's full of cold and I can't remember which one!

    Deano, you make me (gender non-specific) blush! (and laugh, I always admire those who can tread the fine line between compliment and insult and always stay on the right side of said line)

    Jennifer (again!) I had one of those epiphanies reading Dawkins aged 17, I've had several more since, if you* think you only ever have one you've never had any.......

    *I mean "one" not you specifically, but using "one" makes one sound awfully pretentious!

    Montana

    "I honestly didn't say what I did to scherfig to fish for gratitude, but it is nice to know that this place matters to others. "

    I know you didn't, that's precisely why I said it!

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  29. Oh and gandolfo, fairy snuff!

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  30. Oh fuck it Dott - if the urine question was resolved,I missed it.

    What the fuck does stale piss smell of??

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  31. deano

    You do realize that all over the world psychology
    students are hanging on our every word.And in student lecture halls in faraway climes they will be debating
    the significance of-

    'What the fuck does stale piss smell of'.

    Obviously they will be trying to work out the
    correct translation as i type.There then will follow
    heated debates all over the world.UT is now truly
    international!!!

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  32. Dott

    I have had many life changing, view changing moments and I look forward to many more.

    That was my first and it stays with me to this day.

    I am terribly indecisive (sp) and I can be persuaded by anyone who is very certain but then I take some time to check on things.

    It is why I don't watch QT anymore.

    You can persuade me that lizards are running the world, until i get a chance to google it.

    Just kidding about the lizards.

    But some big tory/libdems can persuade me they are on my side right up to the point they fuck me over.

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  33. Ammonia, mostly, I believe

    I did do a quick search on web of science (since some else said they'd wikid it) for a more precise answer, but nothing was forthcoming from such titles as:

    "Analysis of human male armpit sweat after fenugreek ingestion: Instrumental and sensory optimisation of the extraction method"

    Or


    "A cross-sectional study of reported symptoms for sexually transmissible infections among female sex workers in Papua New Guinea"

    Or

    "Biochemical, nutritional and genetic effects on boar taint in entire male pigs"

    Or

    "Perceptual masking of boar taint in Swedish fermented sausages"

    Or

    "Scent and the single male: ring-tailed lemurs produce honest signals"

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  34. someone else, obviously!

    Ah but jennifer, lizards are running the world ;-)

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  35. My dearest young Paul and Dott - I do hope that when the date is announced you will be able to make the Sheff drink in.

    The only possible excuse is that you were beyond the distance of a long spit and two quick wanks.

    Dott it was indeed ammonia that my mam warned me about.

    As my most loved woman said "............you'll know if your poor for the rank of old piss will make your eyes water..

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  36. deano

    I,d love too but it,s a long way for me and i,ve got
    heavy work committments for the forseeable future.

    btw-hope you,re now fully recovered from your recent
    health woes.

    ps-a whole lecture hall somewhere in Japan has gone
    completely silent as students scratch their heads
    and wonder whether 'two quick wanks' is some sort
    of British culinary delight !!

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  37. Deano,

    Thank you for the kind offer but I fear a 5hr round trip is longer than your criteria...

    Besides, need to keep you poetically guessing about my gender!

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  38. Morning all,

    Dott - t'was me wot wiki'd it.

    One of the more bizarre 10 minutes of my life, I have to say (and left me wondering who put so much time and effort entering such information into Wiki...)

    Also, while we're on the subject(ish), when stuff like hair dye says it contains urea hydroxide or some such, is that pee related also....?

    Anyway, as you were....

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  39. James,

    I believe the chemicals are the same, whether the origin is the same is a different question.

    Right on the edge of my knowledge here I'm afraid: I'll ask my bro the chemist next time I get a chance!

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  40. Dotterel:

    Re: our previous mini discussion on 7 x 10^9 possible genders

    Besides, need to keep you poetically guessing about my gender!

    I have my money on a specific one out those seven billion, but i am not saying publicly!

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  41. Dott,

    haha - cheers!!!

    (I've even seen face cream with it in...*shudder*)

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  42. James:

    When we live proteins tend to break a bit, which produces ammonia, a deadly poison. We have the knack (or lots of our cells do) to convert the ammonia into urea, which is still toxic, but not as bad as ammonia. Our kidneys enable us to wee out the urea. Simples.

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  43. Yes but medve, does the urea in beauty products come from that source?

    And I'd be interested to know what your money is on, but since I probably won't confirm or deny don't really have a right to ask!

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  44. Medve,

    Cheers.
    But surely, putting it back onto our hair/skin/face isn't such a good idea then, right!?

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  45. Dunno how much truth there is in this article (looks like badly-written rubbish to me), but here you go - What Skin Care Benefits Does Urea Have?

    University of the UT indeed, eh deano?

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  46. Dotterel, James:

    I am forced to leave the domain of science and enter into that of ancient Dutch peasant folk medicine: bathing the affected part in (diluted) urine is a good cure for chilblains.

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  47. Young twat head of the son of a headmaster .................................plainly of course.

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  48. @medve:

    Soldiers in the First World War used to urinate on their feet in an attempt to ward off trench foot, apparently.

    Can't vouch for its efficacy, but I have pissed on my hands in Norway when very, very cold and it did warm them up a bit, with the added benefit, supposedly, that it "hardens" the hands if you do it enough. A Norwegian soldier swore by it, but they swear all the time anyway, so take it with a pinch of salt, or whatever.

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  49. I think this all adds up to anecdotal evidence that urea may have some beneficial effect on the skin.

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  50. Dunno about urea, but I heard a tale that human placentas were used in Oil of Ulay, could be urban myth tho...

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  51. Cheers for that swifty!! A very interesting read.

    Medve

    I knew that people used to wash clothes and stuff in some sort of pee based formula, although how they first 'discovered' it (and the benefits as a skin care product) raise some 'interesting questions...

    'Excuse me, sir, but your tunic seems to be covered in piss...!'

    'Errrm..., yeah, *cough*, it's a really good, errr... detergent..!

    'Right, but it's on your face and hair also..?'

    'Yup, it's a good moisturiser too, innit!'

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  52. As my much admired freight Swift knows - piss is sterile.


    SwiftyBoy is not.

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  53. Dotterel:

    Yes but medve, does the urea in beauty products come from that source?

    Does it really matter? Does a plant care whether a molecule of CO2 for photosynthesis was belched out by a volcano or whether it comes from the smoke of my spliff?

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  54. A word of warning from SwiftyBoy's excellent linky:

    Extremely Sensitive skin
    People with sensitive skin may experience a stinging sensation while using urea based skin care product and thus are advised against it.

    Infected skin
    Urea based skin care products should not be used on any type of skin irritations, bleeding or reddened skin.

    Young Children
    Children below 3 years should not be given urea based skin care products.

    I think that just about wraps it up.

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  55. Ah, OK.

    Friedrich Wöhler reacted potassium cyanate with ammonium chloride to create urea, way back in 1828.

    These days, it's made in factories, for use in cosmetics as a moisturiser, and as a preservative (in the compound diazolidinyl urea) to stop bacteria spoiling the cosmetics.

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  56. Medve,

    Depends on the likelihood of other things being left in the mix doesn't it? Do you care how your pizza is cooked?

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/burnt-coffins-fuel-naples-pizza-ovens-1975607.html

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  57. Dotterel:

    Every atom in our bodies (apart from hydrogens possibly) was once or even more times in a supernova stellar explosion. compared with that using coffins as fuel is fairly mundane really, i think.

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  58. medve,

    Compared to that everything is fairly mundane!

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  59. Urophagia........drinking your own piss...as yet I have not tried and I think I'll leave that for some time......
    apparently in siberia rich people participating in tribal ceremonies ate a form of magic mushrooms to get their "hit" those that couldn't afford the mushrooms drank the pee of those that could cos the chemicals contained in the mushies aren't broken down and they got the same "buzz".....2 for the price of 1 as it were...obviously life in siberia was a blast.....

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  60. Dotterel: Every breath contains a couple of molecules from the last breath of Socrates, which is pretty cool, but by the same token also a couple of molecules of Hitler's last breath. Should we stop breathing?

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  61. gandolfo: I am all for the more efficient use of sacred mushrooms! (though i might be reluctant to try that second hand experience myself)

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  62. What about man made high protein face masks.Full
    of natural goodness but prone to getting sticky
    should the wearer start sweating!!!

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  63. Dott
    thanks for the link.......so I won't be going to Napoli for pizza in the near future it's the "human remains abandoned in the streets" element that is particularily worrying:§.....
    what was james saying last night about naples?!!??

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  64. That tale is about Fly Agaric gandolfo. It's poisionous, but not to reindeer, the men then drink the reindeer piss, the women the men's, and the kids the women's.. By 10 o'clock the whole tribe are out of the gourd...

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  65. Right 'fraid I'm off, need to go and buy cable ties and bog roll...

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  66. Gandolfo,

    Haha - yeah. Am currently trying to remember if I ate at a pizza restaurant in them there parts...

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  67. turminder:

    It is true that it can kill you, but it depends on the dosage. A complicating factor is that one mushroom can be a million times more potent than its neighbour. Tricky.

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  68. @Dotterel:

    Right 'fraid I'm off, need to go and buy cable ties and bog roll...

    Sounds like you're in for a fun night.

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  69. Hello all! Am back - despite the best efforts of First Capital Connect, that sodding volcano, and Easyjet's check-in "system", which I think Dante left out of his circles of hell because he didn't want to scare people.

    Oh, is nice to be home. Have seen lots of good bands. Will be posting review of the weekend once have had a lie-down, and possibly a drink.

    Hope everyone is well.

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  70. Urea is synthesized in the body by reacting carbondioxide with ammonia.

    In 1828, the German chemist Friedrich Wöhler obtained urea by treating silver isocyanate with ammonium chloride in a failed attempt to prepare ammonium cyanate:

    AgNCO + NH4Cl → (NH2)2CO + AgCl
    sliver isocyanate + ammonium chloride = Urea + silver chloride
    This was the first time an organic compound was artificially synthesized from inorganic starting materials, without the involvement of living organisms. The results of this experiment implicitly discredited vitalism: the theory that the chemicals of living organisms are fundamentally different from inanimate matter.

    More details here

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  71. Nice to have you back Philipps.

    Hope you had a great time back in London.

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  72. I've just lost a post - error 503 ? B*g*e*!!!!

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  73. I meant Philippa. ;)

    Who is Philipps?

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  74. Hey pipster,


    Hope you enjoyed your APB/GPS/SUV whatsit...

    (FTR, I was going to make the same Dante joke about the Brazilian housing market t'other day, so ...... and stronger! ('cause, I thought that, deep, deep down, you might be missing my 'advances'!))

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  75. Hi Philippa

    Hope all,s well with you.

    Is your job sorted out ?

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  76. James & Philippa up a tree,
    K.I.S.S..... ;)

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  77. Turminder,

    haha - I think though, that when Philippa and I are mentioned in a sentence involving trees, it's certainly more likely to be in the context of me barking up the wrong ones.....!!!

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  78. jennifer - philips is the person who gets mentioned in my predictive text a lot...

    paul - hi, job situation has yet to be sorted out - they've gone from offering a 21 hour p/w contract as an employee to 10 hrs p/w for €10 p/h as a freelance, which would be damn-all after all the NI to pay, so will have to consider options...hope to have something sorted by the end of the week though. continuing crossing of things would be appreciated...

    james - i might be slow on the uptake, but I'm not that slow on the uptake, heh heh.

    ATP was grand. Am attempting to get a review in to the music section, but if not, stand by for a slightly more rambling description of the weekend.

    Odd thing overheard #1: "No, if Ryan Giggs has already played for Wales, he can't play for Sierra Leone..."

    Bunny Count - 7.

    Number of The Raincoats who would do little drawings when asked for an autograph - all of them.

    Classy ladies.

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  79. Philippa,

    james - i might be slow on the uptake, but I'm not that slow on the uptake, heh heh.

    Perhaps ironically, I don't get that. You may have to explain.. ;0)

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  80. I did apologise for the Phlipps but it was on Cif.

    Totally sorry Philippa and so glad to have you back. x

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  81. that's just going to have to wait until I get back from the pub, heheh. lovely evening, have newspapers.

    Ah, I like life at the minute.

    Hope that lasts for another couple of days...

    tata for now.

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  82. Montana - just want to add my own thanks for this blog. It is hard work to run a blog like this and at times must be mega stressfull when we have one of our 'rows'. But it is a good place and I would be very sad if it ceased to be.

    Re drinking urine. If it is poisonous waste material then all these people that drink it again thinking it is good for them (I saw someone do it on telly - nearly threw up) are drinking mild poison? Makes common sense to me not to re drink a waste product though!

    Also - bit different but just as icky. There is a hair salon in new york that charges top dollar for an unusual hair conditioning treatment. They pay men to provide them with sperm that they then use on ladies hair - its meant to be really good for it - but just...yuck!!

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  83. Those people in New York who pay for sperm are idiots, sugar and water works just as well as does wallpaper paste, what a bunch of posers.

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  84. PCC

    Are you sure it was a salon, not a saloon..

    ;0)

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  85. pcc and jenn

    what a bunch of tossers.....

    i know.... the door's open....

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  86. I wanted to put me and Frank Black as my avatar but something will not let me.

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  87. Jen,

    I'm not good with computer stuff, but is there a size limit for the avatars, and does yours exceed it?

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  88. I think that might be it James.

    I am having a terrible week though.

    It seems like my new upstairs neighbour is either a drugs baron or a fags baron.

    They are queue ing up outside or banging on my window etc

    I don't want to make a fuss but I am being bothered four or five times a day.

    They keep pressing my buzzer and asking me if lee is in.

    I am not a grass but I am about to lose my temper.

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  89. My Grandma, had a similar problem, believe it or not.

    Turns out it was a prostitute/drug dealer, although if yours is called Lee, you can probably rule the former out.

    I'm not sure what you should do though.

    I don't suppose having a 'quiet word' with him would be a great idea, so maybe reporting him to the authorities anonymously wouldn't be such a bad one.

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  90. AUUUUUURRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!

    I am about to start drinking heavily.

    Fucking users.

    /normal programming may resume

    Welcome back, Philippa!

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  91. Jennifer, that's a tricky one. In my current mood, I'd start gibbering at the bastards and then strangle them all with my bare hands, but I'd probably regret it later.

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  92. Well, this just made me LOL! (Sorry, Montana.)

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  93. thaumatuge

    That was very very cruel and very very funny!

    Montana-i would retaliate by posting todays UT
    'discussion' on body fluids all over the States!

    x

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  94. I’ve been very much a part-timer here for the past few months, so perhaps there are a few things I’ve missed, but having read most of what’s been going on recently, I’d like to comment on some of the “heated discussion” that you’ve all been having. No doubt anyone who feels my comments are out of place will tell me so…

    I sympathise with scherfig’s disappointment that this place isn’t always quite what he would like it to be, even though I also think that sometimes he goes a little over the top in expressing his disappointment.

    Although much of what goes on is obviously fun, it can often be a little insubstantial. I’m not criticising anyone for this, and certainly not Montana, because as I’ve said before, the site is the sum total of what everyone makes it, so anyone who’s unhappy has the remedy in their own hands, to a large extent.

    And fair play to scherfig, he has, as far as I can see, consistently made constructive criticisms and suggestions, rather than simply damn the whole blog as, oh, whatever Hank’s latest outburst was; I really can’t be bothered to go back and look.

    However:

    “I think that the real point here is that nobody actually disagrees with anybody else on UT any more”

    Is a bit of an overstatement, isn’t it scherf?

    Plenty of people have disagreed with Napoleon (and rightly so, in my opinion), but it’s still tenable for them to suggest that he sticks around if they think he might learn something.

    “but also to try and tar me with the same brush as… …etc”

    I don’t think Montana did that, scherf, I agree with the response she made to later as far as that goes, though when she says:

    “Every time you and Hank come around and make blanket statements about how boring the place is, how hypocritical or shallow or whatever -- it hurts me”

    I think she might come across as conflating your criticisms, which I see as generally attempting to be constructive, even if a little aggressive at times, with Hank’s which as far as I can see have now descended into angry, hate-filled rants which have no positive contribution to make (and that is a fucking shame, but not something I really wish to dwell on).

    Recent political events have left many of us in a situation which I feel we could usefully be discussing here (as well as in the real world, obviously), and sharing ideas about what we do and where we go from here.

    I would like to be more a part of that, real-world commitments allowing, and I hope that many of those here will also want to play a serious part.

    And even though scherfig can sometimes be offensive, aggressive or ill-judged (his words not mine), I hope he’ll continue to be a part of it, because I think he’s got a great deal to offer.

    Great response from Anne (as so often):

    “Finally no-one is going bring about the revolution by blogging alone we have to get out on the streets patiently explain the situation and the real socialist solution for it - namely that another world is possible but only if the working class takes power into its own hands. Swearing at people is NOT a revolutionary act”

    But maybe not swearing at people, if it’s the right thing to do, is a counter-revolutionary act…

    And it goes without saying that I’m also grateful to Montana for Untrusted, and that none of the above is a criticism of her and what she continues to oversee, but I’ll say it anyway –

    THANKS MONTANA :-)

    ReplyDelete
  95. MontanaWildhack

    "Every time I see people on Cif making nasty comments about the UT (or "Montana's blog", as some people say), it hurts me. Every time you and Hank come around and make blanket statements about how boring the place is, how hypocritical or shallow or whatever -- it hurts me. I cannot, for the life of me, understand how you could possibly think that it wouldn't."

    And for someone who hosts a site with some of the most foul mouthed attacks on a variety of people maybe you need to ponder your own responsibility when the monster you've created turns and bites back.

    ReplyDelete
  96. Paul - of course the video was very selective (and I'm sure you could find similar examples of stupidity quite easily over here) but from Montana's description of some of her colleagues, I doubt she'll flame me too badly!

    Andy - it's good to have differing opinions and heated discussions but I tune out when attacks start getting personal. There's no need for it. Well, except in very rare cases of persistent trolling or cyber-stalking.

    Trouble is, people's ideas of what constitutes 'personal' tend to vary.

    ReplyDelete
  97. ^^ case in point.

    Fuck off, Bitey.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Evening all.

    In the middle of a job app, and just reading here while I eat.

    Bitey

    And for someone who has created a series of on-line personas with some of the most insubstantiated & unnecessary attacks on a variety of people here maybe you need to ponder your own responsibility when the monster you've created gets bitten.

    It's getting boring, BTH.

    ReplyDelete
  99. thaumaturge-Was only jesting!!

    Andy-what i don,t understand is why you,Hank,scherfig
    etc don,t get more involved with this blog.It gets a bit tedious listening to the 'veterans' periodically
    questioning what,s going on here when they don,t seem to contribute much themselves.And unless i,ve been living in some parallel universe over the last couple of months there have been plenty of serious debates going on here .Todays emphasis on body fluids being s the exception rather than the rule.Plus i have no problem with people having a laugh as well as addressing more serious issues!!

    ReplyDelete
  100. "And for someone who hosts a site with some of the most foul mouthed attacks on a variety of people maybe you need to ponder your own responsibility when the monster you've created turns and bites back."

    And right on cue Montana, up pops one of your monsterettes, the delightful Ms Thaumaturge.

    ReplyDelete
  101. Paul, I know you were - my brain is a little short-circuited at the mo so my response probably didn't convey what I meant to say.

    Wine is helping. Don't feel like quite so much of an axe-murdering maniac now.

    ReplyDelete
  102. Monsterettes - ha ha, actually I'm quite chuffed with that! So cutting, so ... dismissive of women by using the diminutive. True to form, Bitey.

    Bet you'd love to know if I have a teenage son so that you can plaster random mythical abuse of my treatment of him all over the shop.

    ReplyDelete
  103. Evenin' all.

    Welcome back Gandolfo and andysays, you have been missed. (I know you've been back for a while, but I only really get to read your words after you've gone to bed).

    Gandolfo, I really hope you can put some pics up of your recent travels on the gallery, I for one, would love to see 'em. And andysays, I still really envy you, it would be great to see what most of us are missing out on, ie: the beauty of your workplace every day.

    Best regards to all on UT.

    I've been scratching my head about Jennifera30's problems, re the dodgy neighbour, since I woke up an hour ago. I've been in that situation many times. I should know what to do, but the trouble with offering advice is, one really should think of all the possible ramifications if that advice is heeded. More thought required, while I get ready for work.

    Thauma, for chrissakes have a pint for me, while I can't, I'll try and mellow out vicariously.

    ReplyDelete
  104. Ah sweet! I see our wee stalker is visiting.

    Evening all

    Thauma - that vid was funny - but more seriously things could get much worse in the US if this lot get their way.

    ReplyDelete
  105. Hiya, Habib, will do! As long as the pints can be in wine. Then I can blame you when I turn up bleary-eyed at work in the morning: "it was the one I had for Habib wot done it, honest guv!"

    ReplyDelete
  106. Now, now thaum, fight not against Bitey, lest a creepy cyber stalking, databasing, indexing, cross referencing, mis {& out of context} quoting, regenerating, Learnean hydra of a sad, alone blog-ghost, ye become.

    ReplyDelete
  107. God, yes, Sheff, that is horrifying. The worst part is that most textbooks in the US are written to be saleable in Texas as it's a huge market, something that's hinted at in the article.

    I went to high school there (not Texas, Michigan) and the propaganda that's pushed is unbelievable.

    ReplyDelete
  108. Turm - I'm far too lazy to do the research! Sticking up two fingers is good enough for me.

    ReplyDelete
  109. Evening one and all!!!
    hey habib...long time no speak how are you? haven't seen you around....nice to hear you!!! don't be a stranger ;) Shall try and post a few photos tonight got to plough through and fnd some decent ones new digital camera was too much fun and weight a ton when I had to carry it on me back through them mountains!!

    ReplyDelete
  110. aigrette
    aiguillette
    andouillette
    anisette
    anticigarette
    ariette
    audiocassette
    bachelorette
    baguette
    bannerette
    banquette
    barbette
    barquette
    barrette
    blanquette
    briolette
    briquette
    brochette
    brunette
    burette
    casette
    cassette
    cellarette
    chemisette
    cigarette
    coquette
    corselette
    corvette
    courgette
    croquette
    curette
    cuvette
    dinette
    diskette
    epaulette
    etiquette
    farmerette
    featurette
    flannelette
    flechette
    flowerette
    fossette
    fouette
    frisette
    frizette
    fumette
    gazette
    genette
    georgette
    grisette
    jockette
    kitchenette
    launderette
    laundrette
    layette
    lazarette
    leatherette
    lorgnette
    luncheonette
    lunette
    maisonette
    majorette
    maquette
    marionette
    marquisette
    microcassette
    micropipette
    mignonette
    mofette
    moffette
    moquette
    mozette
    mozzette
    musette
    navette
    netiquette
    noisette
    novelette
    nymphette
    octette
    omelette
    oubliette
    paillette
    palette
    pallette
    palmette
    paupiette
    pipette
    pirouette
    planchette
    poussette
    proette
    quartette
    quintette
    raclette
    roomette
    rosette
    roulette
    septette
    sermonette
    serviette
    sextette
    silhouette
    soubrette
    spinnerette
    statuette
    stockinette
    strette
    suffragette
    superette
    toilette
    tonette
    towelette
    tricolette
    umbrette
    usherette
    vedette
    videocassette
    vidette
    vignette
    vinaigrette
    wagonette

    ReplyDelete
  111. Oooh, I am wounded to the quick.

    That the best you can do, Bitey? Trolling through the archives hasn't produced anything?

    By the way, you're a bit etymologically illiterate.

    ReplyDelete
  112. Gandolfo, I'm pretty damn good, look forward to your pics!

    Thauma, ahh, thauma... pints of wine...
    Of course, one should only ever do that if the wine is revolting; the first three gulps - "uhhhg!" Next three gulps "hmmm, not so bad". Any further gulps result in subsequent indifference/clouded judgement/a journey of self-discovery (and I have discovered myself - the next morning - in very unfortunate places, sometimes, even at work).

    I love skipping past bitey's posts, it's like a natural add break, where you can check another channel, or make the tea.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Evening all. Another fleeting and late visit from me, as I'm out of the UK again, and t'internet's slow bordering on static where I am. Just to say thanks Montana for the UT: some may not like it, and hey,that's their prerogative, but I'd wonder if they could do better, and just what they get from coming to a place they dislike and weighing in? Takes all sorts and disagreement is fine by me, but I know if there's a pub I've been to and took a dislike to, I tend not to revisit it.

    ReplyDelete
  114. Bitey's rhyming dictionary. Yawn... This is DB 101, where's the incisive wit that gave us satireveritas?

    ReplyDelete
  115. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  116. Habib - that be pub wine you're on about. Have a (slightly) better class here.

    and I have discovered myself - the next morning - in very unfortunate places, sometimes, even at work

    The horror!

    ReplyDelete
  117. Have a great Kieslowski film to watch (Dekalog) so will leave you guys with the stalker.

    Lists now...guess he's getting desperate. 'nite all.

    ReplyDelete
  118. Habib et al
    well some photos are now up so I hope you like them.......it was brilliant...apart from the 3000+ stone steps in 2km going up 1000m or something.......that was a killer!!!

    ReplyDelete
  119. Great pics, gandolfo - why not add a comment to each explaining its significance? I'm especially interested in how exactly prayer wheels are used and why Mustang is forbidden.

    ReplyDelete
  120. Thanks, gandolfo, that'll help those of us who are stunningly ignorant of that part of the world.

    Bitey - what, no answer? I am so bitterly disappointed.

    Habib - your pint (and my own) has taken its toll and it's time to go and release my teenage son from his bonds in the garret so that he can piss in the bucket before being reshackled for the night. Children can be so troublesome, but at least I can sell his waste products to beauty companies for a tidy profit.

    ReplyDelete
  121. Paul:

    I can’t speak for Hank, scherfig or anyone else, just myself.

    The reason I don’t get as involved as I used to is two-fold:

    Firstly, I moved from London to Cornwall in January and currently live in a remote house with no internet connection. I can only get internet access by using a computer in a draughty office, so it’s not as convenient as it was when I was at home in London.

    Secondly, and much more importantly, I used to be a little obsessive about CiF and Untrusted, to the detriment of real life relationships, so I’m now much more cautious about being sucked back in and spending too much time here.

    I’m not trying to harken back to some imaginary golden age of Untrusted, before all you bloody newbies turned up and ruined the serious hard-core socialist site we old-timers had striven to create – I think it’s great that more and more people are here than a year or so ago when I first arrived.

    I also have no problem with people having a laugh as well as addressing more serious issues, and if you were to go back over the archives you’d certainly find plenty of evidence to accuse me of lack of true revolutionary vigour, were you inclined to do so.

    But sometimes, I think we all (and I certainly include myself in that) could have a bit more in the way of serious discussion. It was in response to a previous discussion along those lines that Montana set up Untrusted2, and so the opportunity is there. I’m as guilty (if that’s the right word) as anyone in not making the most of it.

    One of the points I was trying to make is that scherfig seems to me to have done more than most in attempting to inspire serious discussions, so I’d be inclined to view his comments and criticisms as constructive rather than otherwise, even if you or I don’t agree with him (and I do, pretty much, but that’s not to say everyone else should).

    Untrusted is a great blog, with loads of interesting people expressing interesting opinions (even when I don’t agree with them), and a few arseholes (though there’s room even for them). I’m just saying I think it could be even better, and it’s up to all of us to attempt to make it so.

    One question that we might want to consider is where the recent election result has left those of us who consider ourselves socialists, and what we can actually do, now and in the coming months, in the real world, which might amount to more than just entertaining chat.

    Anyone…?

    ReplyDelete
  122. Damn it folks, sometimes I get the feeling I'm only dropping in here to join the chorus of gratitude singing the praise of Montana (The much deserved praise, I should say), or posting something which doesn't further revolution at all.

    Things like saying: Hey, Philippa, nice to see you here again; may I say I'm a little jealous if what turminder implied about that tree is actually true?

    Or: Thaumaturge and the Monstrettes would be an awesomely cool name for a goth rock punk sixties swing band.

    Or: What do you think of the English accent Germany's entry for the European Song Contest sports? Its quality is heatedly discussed over here ...

    Which is all just fluff, you know.

    ReplyDelete
  123. Habib:

    “it would be great to see what most of us are missing out on, ie: the beauty of your workplace every day”

    I did try to post a couple of pix when I first arrived down here, but struggled to get them to upload. Maybe I’ll have another go.

    ReplyDelete
  124. thauma:

    I don’t particularly like personal attacks, though I admit I’ve indulged in a few myself. There’s always going to be a risk of them happening when people are discussing things they are passionate about, and I for one would rather have a discussion where people are passionate (and are allowed to be passionate) than one where they’re not.

    “Trouble is, people's ideas of what constitutes 'personal' tend to vary”

    I think most people here can distinguish between gratuitous personal attack and discussion becoming a little over-heated.

    ReplyDelete
  125. For example:

    “aigrette
    aiguillette
    andouillette
    anisette
    anticigarette
    ariette
    audiocassette
    bachelorette
    baguette
    bannerette
    banquette
    barbette
    barquette
    barrette
    blanquette
    briolette
    briquette
    brochette
    brunette
    burette
    casette
    cassette
    cellarette
    chemisette
    cigarette
    coquette
    corselette
    corvette
    courgette
    croquette
    curette
    cuvette
    dinette
    diskette
    epaulette
    etiquette
    farmerette
    featurette
    flannelette
    flechette
    flowerette
    fossette
    fouette
    frisette
    frizette
    fumette
    gazette
    genette
    georgette
    grisette
    jockette
    kitchenette
    launderette
    laundrette
    layette
    lazarette
    leatherette
    lorgnette
    luncheonette
    lunette
    maisonette
    majorette
    maquette
    marionette
    marquisette
    microcassette
    micropipette
    mignonette
    mofette
    moffette
    moquette
    mozette
    mozzette
    musette
    navette
    netiquette
    noisette
    novelette
    nymphette
    octette
    omelette
    oubliette
    paillette
    palette
    pallette
    palmette
    paupiette
    pipette
    pirouette
    planchette
    poussette
    proette
    quartette
    quintette
    raclette
    roomette
    rosette
    roulette
    septette
    sermonette
    serviette
    sextette
    silhouette
    soubrette
    spinnerette
    statuette
    stockinette
    strette
    suffragette
    superette
    toilette
    tonette
    towelette
    tricolette
    umbrette
    usherette
    vedette
    videocassette
    vidette
    vignette
    vinaigrette
    wagonette”

    twat…

    ReplyDelete
  126. OMG Sheff! Next stop handmaid's tale!

    ReplyDelete
  127. Can anyone, per-chance, see a lengthy response to Andysays' earlier question, or have I just lost 30 minutes of my life?

    ReplyDelete
  128. Hi All Just made mistake of going on Walter's immigrant thread. Grr.

    Will try to catch up on all your comments now.

    ReplyDelete
  129. James:

    I can’t see your response, and I’d very much like to, though if you can’t re-draught it within the next ten minutes or so I think I may have to wait until tomorrow :-(

    ReplyDelete
  130. .....twat

    cutwater
    cutwaters
    meltwater
    meltwaters
    outwatch
    outwatched
    outwatches
    outwatching
    saltwater
    twat
    twats
    twattle
    twattled
    twattles
    twattling
    wristwatch
    wristwatches

    ReplyDelete
  131. Andy

    What to do in the real world ? I asked this yesterday - not the first to do so.

    Always easier to point out what is wrong - solutions are the problem.

    ReplyDelete
  132. Well, well, BTH, you never let on before that you were a champion Scrabble player.

    How many points did you get for “wristwatches”? Was it on a triple word score?

    ReplyDelete
  133. Andaysays,

    (Bullet-point version...)

    The country rejected Labour, but couldn't bring themselves to fully back Conservatives - therefore a glimmer of hope, particularly if Labour was rejected because they had abandoned the left. (perhaps too early to tell exactly..)

    Coming Labour contest will probably see another New labour cock-knocker, but it also might not.
    Also, a period in opposition may provide the opportunity for Labour to be taken over by the more left element, or at least group around principles rather than the trappings of power.

    Possible that we may even see a splintering/breaking up of the party, should it's wider membership make themselves heard in a big way. (this could be the key).

    And then some other stuff about a resurgence of the left in other parts of the world....

    But I'll write a proper answer and stick it up tomorrow (If someone like the Duke doesn't say the other stuff I want to say in the meantime, but better, obviously...)

    ReplyDelete
  134. Just to add my own "well done", Montana. I'd ignore the few 'you've betrayed the revolution' comments were I you.

    And that sad, vindictive twat bitey. Obviously.

    ReplyDelete
  135. James

    The Left often realigns and strengthens itself from a sense of coherent anger - passing from a diffused sense of disposession and powerlessness to a determination to organise and oppose.

    If Labour fails to come up with a credible leader new leader well my arise outside the party.

    ReplyDelete
  136. Leni,

    Yeah. I do wonder how it will pan out though.

    I have a funny feeling that the Labour post-mortem will blame this on GB, and conclude that he wasn't New Labour enough!!

    If that does happen, it's pitch-forks a-go-go, I reckon!!

    ReplyDelete
  137. Leni:

    “What to do in the real world? I asked this yesterday - not the first to do so. Always easier to point out what is wrong - solutions are the problem”

    Yeah, you’re right. You and others have already been asking that question.

    It’s a huge subject, and I hope we can continue to address it.

    James:

    Glad you got it back again.

    Even though I have no great faith in the Labour Party, I was disappointed to hear Jon Cruddas announce he won’t be taking part in the leadership contest. Who else is there who has even the slightest claim to be on the left?

    Looking forward to reading more tomorrow.

    Martillo:

    Long time!

    As far as I can see, there’s only one person suggesting that Montana or anyone else has betrayed the revolution, and I’m genuinely sorry to say I find it impossible to take him seriously anymore.

    But there’s always room for discussion about where we want to go, surely.

    I’ve got to get up early and conserve the Cornish coast, so I’ll bid you all goodnight…

    ReplyDelete
  138. andysays, I think your "twat" comment was damn impressive comedy timing. Of course, I know what Cornwall looks like and there are a thousand pics on the web, but it would be really good to see what you see, from your perspective.

    For that reason, Gandolfo, I love the picture postcards of Kagbeni and sunset Jarkot - beautiful, great photos. The other four photos give me another perspective, as if I'm looking through your eyes, very real. Thank you. "One day" I'll see them for myself, I hope.

    ReplyDelete
  139. It's night from me too, actually.

    Have a good one folks!

    ReplyDelete
  140. habib
    thanks for the, IMO, over generous compliment! Nepal is a fascinating and beautiful country also a very troubled one.....definitely worth visiting if you get the chance....

    ReplyDelete
  141. Andysays

    Have just picked up your earlier post to me and your
    final para left me somewhat gobsmacked.Unless i,ve
    imagined the last couple of months there have been
    numerous discussions on UT dealing with the points you raised.You just weren,t involved in them.

    I don,t know you from adam so i have no idea what you
    stand for.And all i know about scherfig is that he,s
    good for an on-line ruck about bollocks basically.
    With regard to Hank i simply wish he,d get more
    involved.I did have a one-off discussion with him
    and i liked him as far as someone can like a person
    after talking to them once on cyber.

    I just get pissed off with people who i don,t know
    periodically jumping in,telling us all we,re somehow
    letting the side down and then buggering off again.
    Which is why i hope you,Hank and Scherfig get more
    involved instead of making either veiled or not so
    veiled criticisms.

    ReplyDelete
  142. Night Andysays, long time indeed.

    "But there’s always room for discussion about where we want to go, surely."

    Of course.

    ReplyDelete
  143. Do you know what? I'm beginning to wonder if all this internet malarky wasn't designed to distract us all from real political debate. The Russians and the French managed revolutionary change in an age where information was shared at snail pace. Now we can click a button and read newspapers from all over the world. Not only that, we can click on links and have them pop up instantly. There is literally nothing we can't get information about at the click of a mouse.
    So if you want to have a serious discussion, maybe we could debate whether the internet has set us free or just enslaved us even further.
    Obviously people flit in and out of here,as I do myself and then toddle of to read their e-mails or whatever and get different links from them also.
    I could be wrong but I was never under the illusion that blogging on a site like this would change anything. To me it's the cyber equivalent of going down the pub but I do love the fact that it is a "global pub"!
    Anyway I have to crash out for the night but I'll join in the chorus of approval for Montana for giving us all the opportunity to have our "two penneth".
    FWIW: I hope Napoleon returns. I think his heart is in the right place and he seems to have some guts at least. He's just a young lad finding his way. Hope that doesn't sound patronizing but we've all been there haven't we? By "we" I mean those of "d'une certain age" as the French euphemisim puts it!

    ReplyDelete
  144. gandolfo

    Really liked your pictures from Nepal.Fascinating country which few people in the UK know much about.
    Despite the role the Gurkhas have historically
    played in the UK army.

    Haven,t been there myself but have heard it is
    stunningly beautiful although as you say troubled
    as well.Would like to see more if you,ve got any.

    ReplyDelete
  145. Leni:"only connect":discuss: you will have to nudge my memory on that one. It's been bugging me all day!
    There is a delicious irony about me pontificating about making connections and then failing to make one myself!

    ReplyDelete
  146. Paul + Gandolfo

    My cousin - another Internationalist Lefty in the family - about 20 years ago was involved in funding and building a school in Nepal. He was heartbroken when it burned down several years later by of all people the Communists ! The group he belonged to had maintained the school for abot 8 years.

    ReplyDelete
  147. chekhov

    EM Forster - Howards End.

    Can't remember it in full
    "...Live in fragments no longer
    Only connect"

    Another one for us all to ponder is this from Goethe (Possibly not totally correct - from memory )

    " Thinking is easy, acting is difficult - to put thinking into action is the hardest thing. "



    Many before us have pondered the great questions - "what to do - and how ?"

    ReplyDelete
  148. Leni

    I heard that when they can the Taliban are burning down re-opened schools in Afghanistan-especially those that educate girls -heartbreaking!!

    Don,t want to be the purveyor of more bad news but
    i,m hearing rumours-to be confirmed-that the LibDems have agreed in principle to Tory plans to introduce Workfare in this country.In the 1930,s there were
    riots at some of the Labour Exchanges when cuts in
    the dole were imposed.And apparently able-bodied
    young men who were long-term unemployed were actually
    forced to work in what were in effect Labour Camps-
    -in this country FFS.

    Let,s be realistic the Labour leadership battle ain,t
    gonna give us any hope.It,s going to be more of the
    same ie New Labour BS.And if they confront the Con/Lib
    Workfare plans it will be for no other reason than
    political expediency.Really feel the only thing that
    is going to bring about change is serious rioting
    in the streets.The democratic process has totally
    let down the working classes of this country.And as
    well as fighting the political classes we can,t ignore
    the potential threat from the extremists as well.
    Could be a bloodbath in the offing.It,s a fcuking
    mess!!

    ReplyDelete
  149. Paul

    attacking schools - or in the case of Britain reducing budgets and opportunity - is a powerful weapon against the poor you wish to control. Keep the uneducated keep them down.


    Workfare could well be the straw that will break the camel - those forced onto it will , for the most part, be concentrated in specific areas - easier to organise.

    Workfare will trap people even more tightly into disadvantage and unemployment - far too convenient for local authorities and low wage employers. Will they want to lose a captive labour force ? I think not.

    Current inflation rates - to say nothing of VAT rise + petrol increase - will reduce value of average incomes quite dramatically. For how long will the serfs stay silent, sullen and obedient ?

    ReplyDelete
  150. Leni

    If someone could give me a convincing argument for
    trying the non-violent path i,d give it a go.But
    although we all pussyfoot round it isn,t it the case
    that most if not all of us still genuinely on the Left know in our hearts that we,ve gone past the point of no return.That mainstream politics offers
    us no solutions.Don,t get me wrong i,m not seeking to
    incite violence but history offers us several
    precedents here.The only way twats like Cameron,Clegg
    and co take the working classes seriously is when
    the working classes scare the fcuk out of them.If
    only we had solidarity in the working classes i,d
    feel more confident about taking the bastards on!!

    ReplyDelete
  151. Leni: thanks for clarifying that! I once went into a cinema to watch "A Room With a View" thinking it was all about "Cold War" espionage and there was Helena Bonhamm Carter and Julian Sands frolicking around in the daffodills!
    Am I right? That was EM Forster too wasn't it?
    Or was it Edith Wharton?
    It was a "Merchant-Ivory" production anyway.

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  152. Leni

    Sorry about poor layout.Think my computers fcuked
    as well.

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  153. chekhov

    Room with a View - yup, Forster.

    You've got me thinking now - The Yellow Room - was that Edith Wharton. About a woman effectively locked away in room with yelloew wallpaper.

    I need to do some re- reading.

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  154. Paul

    I would like to think mass demos might do it.

    To be effective they would have to completely paralyse large commercial and banking areas - bring them to a standstill for days on end.

    How much police violence in response would be the determining factor - angry people may well respond in kind.

    Do you remember in Detroit demonstrators were forbidden to wear helmets and face protection against tear gas ? The steady increase in police powers in the so called 'democracies' is a matter for great concern - so far the resistance against it has been minimal.

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  155. Paul: I'm all for some "solidarity" amongst the working class, I'm just not sure that this forum will "mobilize" it!

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  156. chekhov

    We certainly won't mobilise anything sitting here tapping away.

    I see the tanks are moving in on the protestors in Thailand. Hope the army holds its fire. The outcome there could be a disaster

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  157. @Leni-mass demos can lead to rioting when peoples
    backs are against the wall.Again history has numerous
    precedents-especially when up a heavy handed police
    response.

    @Chekhov-credit me with some intelligence.Who said UT
    was going to be the catalyst in uniting the working
    classes?

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  158. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  159. Paul: I'm all for some "solidarity" amongst the working class, I'm just not sure that this forum will "mobilize" it!

    @Chekhov-smart arse comments like the one you made
    above don,t help the debate.Some of us take what,s
    happening really seriously.You respect me and i,ll
    respect you back.Hope we understand each other!

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  160. Paul

    The riots in the 80s gained no significant improvements for people. The poll tax rebellion - to a small extent perhaps at the time but had very little long last effect with the re-evaluation of houses which followed.

    The inner cities , where so much poverty is concentrated , are still neglected.

    The gap between rich and poor has widened, the poorest pay an inordinate percentage of their income in tax as opposed to the better off.

    It isn't only about trying to reverse bits of legislation - that is a small part of the problem.

    It is about a sociocultural change, a recognition of the value of people. When a secion of any society is seen as second or third class it become easier to deprive them of their rights.

    You only have to read some of the cif comments to see how deeply entrenched this is in Britain. Many of the commenters who are so derisory of the poor and the sick must come from working class families - this is the difficulty - those who are 'getting by' have disowned their own roots and have no sympathy for the less fortunate - be they disabled, unemployed or refugees.

    There is a dog eat dog couldn't care attitude across society - this is why a solution will be difficult to find. It will take more than rioting - riots will harden attitudes, not only in the establishment but in those who fear to lose the precarious grasp on what they have.

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  161. Leni

    I,m fully aware of everything you,ve said.The point
    i am making is what alternatives are there?

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  162. Paul my lovely

    I wish I knew.

    I fear riots are the most probable outcome.

    Nightnight x

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  163. Leni

    We can talk ourselves into a state of inertia.As
    i,ve said on a number of occasions before there
    will be flashpoints and those flashpoints will
    ultimately lead to 'action' on the street.Whether they achieve anything is up for debate but at present mainstream politics offers people no alternatives.
    Don,t know how things will unfold.May well vary from community to community but everyone has their breaking point.And the bottom line is that none of us can predict with any certainty what the outcome
    will be.

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  164. What fine reading to wake up to.

    It was good to see Martillo and Andy's twopennyworth.

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  165. ".....I'm all for some "solidarity" amongst the working class, I'm just not sure that this forum will "mobilize" it!....."

    UT will not impede it and that is good news.

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