07 May 2010


The dome of the Hagia Sophia collapsed in 558.  Charles University in Prague was founded in 1348.  Joan of Arc lead the final charge of the Siege of Orleans in 1429.

Born today:  David Hume (1711-1776), Robert Browning (1812-1889), Johannes Brahms (1833-1897), Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky (1840-1893), Rabindranath Tagore (1861-1941), Gary Cooper (1901-1961) and Christy Moore (1945).

Today is the feast day of Acacius of Byzantium.


  1. Morning All!

    As I said the other day, now is the time to start fighting.

    There are going to be people from all camps who range from disappointed to outraged.

    The government which results will not last.

    The overall situation will be getting worse from now on.

    There will probably have to be another election in a year or so and it is quite likely that this next government will be the result of a violent swing to the right and will have the magic mandate to show us what it is really made of.

    Does anyone remember the words of the inveterate criminal liar, Jeffrey Archer, when going to run for London Mayor and thinking he was not being filmed?

    Something like (spitting through clenched teeth and with white-knuckled rage): "By Christ I will show them once I am elected."

    We are going to be shown the pigs.

    Just a question of when it happens.

    We will never have the chance to show our own. We are the ones who always have to miss a turn.

    Despite all expectations to the contrary, it was not CiF Wot Won It.

    CiF, actually, made absolutely fuck all difference whatsoever.

    So, will the Official Keeper of Plan B please bring it to the table?

    Hello? Hello...

  2. Morning AB, agree that whatever govt results won't last long. Hope you are wrong about swing to right. (Nick Griffin lost his, hooray!)

    Results for my constituency not due until 1 pm!

  3. Atomboy.

    Looking at the 'election' this morning and the future, I can only quote Charlie Brown in peanuts:

    "It always looks darkest just before it gets totally black"

  4. "We are going to be shown the pigs."

    The worst of it is that it'll be George Osborne's face doing the tour.

    I see Hank's back playing everyone's favourite record. Hi Hank. Its getting too tiresome going over the same old things with so just a few points:

    You havent "left CIF", you post there every day. You probably post on the dreaded waddya more than me these days. I dont think i have ever apologised to JessReed, and have never apologised to anyone for criticisms of either the Graun or any of its writers. I have apologised twice - for "personal abuse", for the purpose of being released from 1 premod and 1 ban.

    In your make believe world you were leading a revolutionary blog poised to transform the country into a new utopia of radicalism and fairness until me and Kiz ruined it by chatting on waddya. I wish you could see how absurd you can be at times.

    Anyway, hope you're well. Maybe it would be better if i phone you next time, this is probably boring everyone to tears.

  5. ""It always looks darkest just before it gets totally black"

    Its looking pretty murky already. Billionaire boy Goldsmith won his seat. The only positives seem to have been Griffin and Smith losing their seats.

  6. Viewing from abroad, it's depressing: the same old faces/shits getting back in, reduced majorities, but still shored up by unthinking tribal/core vote, assisted of course by the ludicrous electoral system (and I would like to see a full and transparent audit trail for both postal votes, for which labour have a track record for 'harvesting'/manipulating and for expat votes for which the Tories have a similarly murky history: such audit trails mysteriously have gone awry or missing in a lot of bye-elections over the last few years.)
    Fuck all change, the neo-liberal,marketise-to-death,outsource and mistrust the populace juggernaut rolls on.
    Of course the big boys don't much care for this supposed instability of a hung parliament, and I think Atomboy has it spot-on: one of the big two, either the clunking fisters, or the moon-faced Bullingdonians will try a 'democratic' power-seize and either way, supercilious,ill-informed (and also plain incompetent)authoritarianism will be our future. Not dictatorship or anything as wild as that, simply a drably British repression, more curtailment of civil liberties and the right to protest or voice opposition to all-encompassing corporatism,cronyism and out-of-touch PPE cliques.

  7. Unless I'm mistaken, Tories now need all remaining 38 seats for a majority - they definitely wont get it. Bad luck Dave.

  8. Ha Jay is Hank Mavis or Melissa?

    God I was a bit drunk and on one last night.

    Sorry that I was nasty to you Nap K but you really do need to reign in that chav stuff.

  9. Oh dear God - I have an illness fallen upon me...........................to my......not very many......fans....................I will........... come heaven or disordered water ..............return.

    It may take some time but I will.

    See all who care to make the effort in Sheffield.

    Nap glad to read that you too have a Yorks connection. Agree with Jenn30 /.....for fucks sake get the difference 'tween feckless and hapless sorted.

    oh dear god that illness is disturbing my eye..........and I haven't been wanking.


  10. I was`writing as Jen posted........Hank could well be both...................when he is not being Kiz.

  11. Fuck me we have had 407 visitors and its not yet time for breakfast.

    I must be away for a walk to the village to lay in the (possibly) last stocks of wine for a while.

    Regards dear comrades - we all hurt that little bit more this day but perhaps it's preparation for things to come.


  12. Deano, hope you feel better!

  13. morning

    God what a night. Guess there will now be days/weeks of horse trading - the best we can hope for from that might be getting some form of PPR if whatever gov we get lasts long enough to get the legislation through.

    What is it with the bloody English? For its mostly them who've given pie face and his brethren the edge.

    I also thought the turnout might be better given how angry everyone was supposed to be. Apparently not angry enough to prise their fat arses off their sofas.

  14. Jennifer

    Hank is many names on CIF. As for linking him directly with "Mavis", if people explicitly link people to new monikers the mods may feel obliged to delete them, so the unwritten rule dictates...

  15. Ah I get it Jay, so who isn't Melissa?

  16. Yay - Tories no chance of outright majority now:

    0946: Labour hold Erith and Thamesmead to ensure a hung parliament.

  17. I am under no illusions our> (UT) dividing issue as we talk this thing through over the next, so very many, days will be.....................inheritance.

    I will go to my grave secure in the knowledge that I did not agree with inheritance beyond a fewbob (no more than a year at average earnings for each kid) to celebrate my passing.

    What I will leave my kids is the pleasure of making their own way and reaching their own conclusions about this thing called life. They will indeed make it, or not, on their own merit but I am confident that they will help others along the way.

  18. oh thank you my lovely thaum


  19. Sheff,

    I also thought the turnout might be better given how angry everyone was supposed to be. Apparently not angry enough to prise their fat arses off their sofas.

    If I may be allowed to paraphrase Bill Hicks "Go back to bed America".

    "Go back to bed Britain, your elite has it all figured out. Go back to bed Britain, Business and banks are in control. Here, here's X-Factor, watch this, shut up, mindlessly consume and go back to bed Britain. Here's strictly come dancing, here's 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary fuckwits dance inanely around your fucking apathy and congratulate yourself that you live in a free democracy. Here you go Britain - you are free to do what well tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!"

  20. Apols where due for drunken twattishness.

    Incumbent New Labour has been sacked round my way. Lookalike Tory is in. Majority < 2000 votes.

    Plenty went out to vote round here though...

  21. Now are you listening young Nap

    .................'tis a strange thing that booze ......I would never ever have believed it ....but it is true.

    I never ever would have thought it possible that I could have fallen in love with a woman who likes horses and doesn't like Kerouac but I have (and I haven't even seen her ankle yet)

    I adore you young missthauma - are you on for Sheffield?

  22. Morning all. Let's look on the bright side: at least 68p butt-plug Smith can move out of the cramped main residence quarters and back into the holiday cottage where her porn-watching hubby and her kids live.

  23. Depends on the date, Deano - lots of weekend working to be done over the summer, unfortunately.

  24. Yr Grace
    Good old BH, how I miss people like him at times like this. Sums it up perfectly.

    Plenty went out to vote round here though...

    They eventually managed it in Sheffield too - but significant numbers left it so late they fucked up - as did the council, who have put an apology up on their website. That's a comfort.

    New campaign for fairer voting system started here:
    take back parliament

  25. "...your elite has it all figured out..."

    As is so often case Duke you be spot on the money. No accident that Mandelson holidays in the vicinity of Rothschild.

    I am no antisemite. Next year it will be Hols with the Indian billionaire Met...(whatever his fucking name is). London is a veritable hotbed of the bastards.

    Enuf of this depression I am away to the off shop.

  26. Sheff: great linky as always!

  27. Sheff - second medve.


  28. medve

    Am trying to find reasons to be cheerful - it's a struggle this morning. My normally sunny disposition has taken a dive lately. At least the bnp seem to have got nowhere, although can't really tell until we have the local council results in.

  29. My normally grumpy disposition is too tired grasp anything at all.

  30. I would like to apologise for my car crash moment, last night I said

    'I hate the fucking plebs'.

    However there are mitigating factoras. I wrote a long and detailed account of my life in a Constituency, which involved me be being physically and verbally attacked for daring to be an independant intellectually minded youth.

    As I maintain, Britain is probably one of the most anti intellectual countires in the world, no doubt die to scum like Murdoch, who want to keep the people stupid and compliant.

    Then Jenifera30 read this and came in with an ad homiem attack 'You hate the Feckless plebs, nap' or something.

    To which I made the above remark as a reply to her, just to spite her for trampling in over my personal experiences, ignoring waht I said, but using it to make an ad homiem.

    I don't blame the plebs. I am not a Marxist, but I do not deny that some theories from the great man are true, and tha sociological theories as to why poverty is endemic and continuing are often true.

    I apologise to Jenifera, as long as you acknowledge your own trolling, which I see you have above. Fair enough.

  31. On a more positive note, at least we got a hung parliament.

  32. I did not ad hom you Nap and I did not recognise that above.

    I called you out for what you said not for what you are (check the definition of ad hom).

    I am sorry that I swore at you and that I was nasty but I am not sorry for getting angry at your bullshit.

  33. Jen, Nap, come on leave it, more important things today, lets not squabble.

  34. Wow. Clegg's just said "first go to the Tories" for forming a government, that they need to prove they can do it "in the national interest".

    That's a turn up, although not necessarily a surprise, on reflection, given his thoughts on the electoral system generally.

  35. morning all

    bloody hell

    you will be pleased to know that the democratic deficit, on current figures, is as large as ever according to the graph

    so bloody cross about libdem vote - how, after all that bounce, did they lose seats? because people were scared, of course - kettle and milne and their 'hung parliament menas we're all going to die' schtick seems to have had an effect. but we have one anyway, just one with fewer 'other' voices in parliament.

    i mean, good for the greens, but the loss of evan harris is a bloody shame.

    not going to miss some of the others though. bye bye jacqui...

  36. Think Cleggy's playing a deep game: Tories try and fail to form a govt - then what?

  37. Quick run down of percentage of vote and percentage of seats at the moment:

    Tories- 36% of total vote. 47% of seats

    Labour- 29% of total vote. 40% of seats

    Lib Dems- 23% of total vote. 8% of seats

    Not so much the 'mother of parliaments' more 'cheating motherfucker of parliaments'.

  38. At least that fat fuck McNulty got the elbow. Reasons to be cheerful No.1...now I'm going to get even drunker than I was last night.

  39. Evan Harris going is just so depressing.

    God this is a horrible day.

  40. @Philippa:

    "because people were scared, of course - kettle and milne and their 'hung parliament menas we're all going to die' schtick seems to have had an effect."

    Not sure I agree with that Pip - there was plenty of left-wing scaremongering about a possible Tory government, too. And urging the electorate to vote tactically against the Tories where it counted. That seems to have come to nothing.

    If it shows anything, it shows that when it comes to a General Election, the British (OK, the English) really do go for a two-party system.

  41. George Galloway lost!

  42. Don't be churlish Nap jennifera30 quite properly called you for being a cunt in your feckless use of the language..

    Proper ladies, like the good miss Jenn, deserve proper apologies. You should attend to it. Jay is, despite his Mick sounding name, a gentleman. I am not.

    Regards on this crazed day.

  43. Philippa: On the bright side your extremely scary namesake did not get through in Sutton and Cheam.

  44. Galloway was a crap constituency MP (and I speak as someone who voted for him)...great orator, crap MP.

  45. Deano

    Jay is, despite his Mick sounding name, a gentleman.

    *slap* !!!

  46. Always pleased to see you around again Swifty

  47. I love you all the more thaum I just can't get enuf of you.

    My sometime - the love of my life and my daughters man are all Micks. There is something in the Celts that oh so pleases me.

  48. Oh Monbiot just answered a question of mine BTL and it has made me feel all happy.

    Does that make me a saddo?

  49. @deano:


    Interesting days lie ahead.


    I'm not sure the boy Clegg is playing a deep game, to be honest. I think he's just playing a "consistent" game, if I can put it that way, in that he's on the record as saying previously what he's just confirmed - that in the event of a hung parliament, the party that got the most seats under FPTP has the right to "go first".

  50. Deano, the evil eye isn't off you yet.

  51. swifty - aye, you're right. am too hungover and confused to be totally even-handed about this...

    i think a lot of people were stuck in the same situation - looking at the possibilities and thinking, 'well, shit, I don't fancy any of them'.


    medve - aye, small mercies - presumably demons are to blame. nice demons.

  52. Swifty - true, too tired to get any words right. Using first ones that come to mind.

  53. Yay, LDs have kept Brent Central. 13% +

  54. ..and the hottest chick ever I danced with ( to Fats Waller ..on blueberry hill) was from NI and she had some tiny, but oh so very memorable tits.

    I adored them then as I do now. I wish it were not the case that I like Micks women but I do. I have a similar problem with ladies from, or in, Yorks. But not lawyers (BB excepted)

  55. @thaum, Philippa:

    Not sure I can see how a Lib-Con conversation could begin though.

    "Err, well done, David. After you, as they say."
    "Err, thank you Nicholas, and, err, sorry about your night last night."
    *cough shuffle ahem ahem* etc.

    Probably a bit like waking up after a night on the piss with your sister-in-law starkers in bed next to you, or something.

    Where do you start?

  56. LOL @Swifty.

    Clegg may not support him. But if the Tories are going to have a go at it, I hope to hell Vince ends up as chancellor.

  57. Swifty - great analogy!

    thauma - good point - i just can't believe that the tories would be so limited as to think that they can get away with putting GO in number 11.

    It's just that...he's an idiot...

    Strangely, when he was interviewed last night on the BBC coverage, I said that they'd only let him out now the polls had closed. My mates then informed me that he'd been a regular feature on Sky (post-debate analysis, etc). They'd seen a lot of him.

    So - all over Sky, but kept well away from the BBC? Hmmmm....

  58. "Does that make me a saddo?"

    No, Monbiot's piece was quality.

  59. Swifty "Where do you start?"

    with Frank Harris' immortal starter......"I don't suppose you..............fancy a.."

  60. "But if the Tories are going to have a go at it, I hope to hell Vince ends up as chancellor."

    Hmm... might be better to have Osborne - he's so useless and odious it will help generate anti-Tory feeling, and i dont think another election can be far away. They hid him away in this election with good reason.

  61. Oh irony of ironies. Of course, Hungary has an electoral system that many in the UK who wish for electoral reform would dream of (constituencies combined with lists). And yet, the recent result was that the nazi party got one in every six votes and a very weird neo-peronistic party got about 70%.

    (peron as in dont cry for Argentina or something)

  62. "...10.44am: Now it's Nick Clegg's turn to move the markets, and send the pound back up against the dollar. The Liberal Democrat leader just reiterated that the party with the most support (eg the Tories) has the right to try and govern, and sterling hits $1.465..."

    I also have a passion for non conformist's minister's daughters. I wish it were not the case but it is.

  63. medve - I think only a Dutch national with a class command of our language could come up with....."neo-peronistic"

    I am impressed.

  64. Deano: Thanks. That's the result of having a degree from a Yorkshire university (when we still got grants and all that).

  65. Your a fine friend - I knew there was a Yorkshire connection somewhere in you.

    FYI Swifty is Yorks too.


  66. Small crumb of comfort #3 - Bea OBE getting 1.4% of the vote in H&K...759 votes and a lost deposit, I think...

  67. thauma

    I'll eat my many hats, yours as well, if you've got any, if the tories agree to make Vince Cable chancellor.

  68. Morning all

    I,ts not the end of the world people!

    Jay-agree with your point about how tedious it is
    listening to an LP that seems to have got stuck!

    Habib-thanks for your message.I knew we were still cool!

    LaRit-have just read a great post from you on last
    nights thread.Nice one!

    BB-Wherever you are i hope you,re OK.

  69. PB - I am comforted. xxx.

  70. Tis a strangeday, can't belive Scotland lined up behind NuLab, have we all been asleep the last 13 years? Lib Dem/Tory coalition? Let me out!!!

    Still this might be the one chance in a generation for voting reform, although Montana's prediction of computer ballots, (so much easier to rig)is more likely...

  71. Phillipa
    Small crumb of comfort #3 - Bea OBE getting 1.4% of the vote in H&K...759 votes and a lost deposit, I think...

    I'll take any crumbs of comfort this morning, however small and that one has definitely cheered me up. We'll no doubt get a lengthy piece on the vicissitudes of standing for office and the ingratitude of the electors for failing to snatch her queenly hand off.

  72. Greetings comrade Paul - good to see you.

    Black and Mick - you have a lot to live up to. I think you will make it.

  73. Philippa

    It was no doubt Satanic infuences that prevented Bea taking her rightful place.

    I feel a witch hunt coming on.

  74. jennifer - the demons have been busy, eh? heheheheh.

  75. Yawn, well I can't be around today. Damn application form could not be opened by the recruitment people. Have to reformat it, bah.

  76. This comment has been removed by the author.

  77. medve- neo-peronistic. Is that not what you get when your appendix bursts?

    turminder. Yes, as usual, Scotland votes the Labour drones. As my father and grandfather always said, "I don't vote Scottish Labour as I'm left wing."

    Scottish Labour are a disgrace to their class. A bunch of small minded, greedy, drunk on guaranteed power, nepotistic spivs.

    I detest Scottish Labour more than I do the Tories.

  78. turm Boudican not likely to be here before 2011 so it may not be this year when you find me on your lawn.

    I shall endeavour to ensure that I still have a shilling to buy you pint

  79. Aye 13th, it was ever thus... Props for the Saint Bill Hicks, "Go to back to sleep Britain, The public schoolboy's are deciding your fate. You've proved you can't do it yourselves."

  80. You're welcome any time Deanno, I have a spare room and bet Mungo would like the borders ; )

  81. "medve- neo-peronistic. Is that not what you get when your appendix bursts?"

    Speaks for it's owner - class Duke

  82. Tory wonk on W@1 claiming it's 'above his pay grade' to speculate on a coalition, but clearly laying the ground for a pact with the LibDems - shared policies, electoral reform, etc...

  83. I wish Bill Hicks was still with us, he would have had a field day with this current election.

    Is there no one who will step up and take his mantle?

  84. Your Grice: It was my feeble attempt to describe a party that is definitely not Adolf, not quite Benito, so i had to flee to South America for my metaphor.

  85. I'm struggling to find any positives out of all this bollocks. However a small crumb of comfort might be that Her Royal Highness, Lady Bea Campbell succeeded in reducing the Green vote in Hampstead and Kilburn from 5.6% to a paltry 1.4%.

    Bea blazed like a comet across the political firmanent for such a brief time, but she is now just a small pile of smoking ash in the back garden of a NW3 two-bedroom semi. The same constituency also claimed the political career of rising star Tamsin Omond, baronet's granddaughter and much beloved denizen of the parish of Plane Stupid and Cif-on-the-Blink. Tamsin polled an impressive 123 votes from her chums and has now reportedly run back to Mummy, scweaming hysterically and stamping her feet.

  86. Stephen Dorell - the deficit is "the elephant in the drawing room"

    Drawing room?

    I hesitate to say that any one phrase sums the Tories up, but...

  87. She got what she deserved Sherfig, I wish Karma actually worked, it would certainly shut most politicians up.

  88. Your Grice: I think the nasty ailment is peritonitis.

  89. We call it the 'front room' no matter it's position.

    As I said to Turminder on Cif I doubt I will ever be middle class. :-(

    Woe is me.

  90. Dammit, huge swing to Tories in my consituency. 84% turnout!

  91. medve,

    just joking with you, it's a good word!

    I love the fact that Bea OBE achieved less votes than the BTL comments she gets after a particularly fuckwitted article.

  92. thaum - I adore the idea that the Shits of Warwick were looking for the toilet paper.

  93. Jenn my lovely young miss - never despair you never know what you might find in a field in Yorks.

  94. Your Grice: Anyone who has read a few of your posts would never suspect you of such a malapropism. Humour is our only option in these dire times when all decent people are threatened by flocks of black swans. I did laugh at your joke, just pretended to take it seriously ;-)

  95. online interview thingy about the start - wish me luck...

  96. Good luck with your interview Philippa, any company would be lucky to have you.

  97. thaumaturge
    My county's gone blue. Phil Hope deselected, shame he was one of the better ones.

    On the up-side I've got a gig out your way in November - will email ya.

  98. Excellent, BW! (On your second point, not first!)

  99. philippa

    Good luck with interview!!

    btw Bea has just announced that she now has proof
    that her defeat in Hampstead and Kilburn is down to the fact that testosterene is being pumped into the water there. More alarmingly she alleges that the victor, Glenda J,is actually a tranvestite and is demanding that the relevant swabs and checks be
    taken to prove it.

  100. Martha:Nobody's asking you to remember every single goddammn Warner Brothers epic....just one! On single epic! Bette Davis gets peritonitis in the end...she's got this big black fright wig she wears all through the picture and she gets peritonitis, ans she'a married to Joseph Cotton or something...

    George:... Somebody....
    Martha: ...somebody...and she wants to go to Chicago all the time, 'cause she's in love with that actor with the scar....But she gets sick, and sits down in front of her dressing table...
    George: What actor ? What scar?
    Martha: I can't remember his name for God's sake. What's the name of the picture? I want to know what the name of the picture is. She sits down in front of her dressing table....and she's got this peritonitis...and she tries to put her lipstick on , but she can't...and she gets it all over her face....but decides to go to Chicago anyway and ...

    (Whose Afraid of Virginia Woolf: Edward Albee)
    This was written as a stage play but there's classic film version circa 1959 with Richard Burton and Liz Taylor at their sizzling best!

  101. Hello all-.......
    good luck phillippa

    Well at least Lembit Opik has found, quote, "spiritual faith" and declared: "In the words of Arnie Schwarzenegger, 'I'll be back'."

    well that's a positive ain't it....???

  102. Hmm, Brown has just said that we need 'immediate' legislation on voting reform. Well, for once I agree with Gordon.

  103. BW - I doubt your wrong. I look forward to our meeting.


    and as for the confusion of language ........I offer you my much adored Sheff's alter image.

    "Think on" ( a Yorks educational phrase) before you dare to speak against Sheff's sister's image.

    I don't give a fuck for what happened next ......insomuch that adored the fact of the matter that the small breasted lady......(admirably breasted lady).... was on a day that mattered =- there BW - I doubt your wrong. I look forward to our meeting.


    and as for the confusion of language ........I offer you my much adored Sheff's alter image.

    "Think on" ( a Yorks educational phrase) before you dare to speak against Sheff's sister's image.

    I don't give a fuck for what happened next ......insomuch that adored the fact of the matter that the small breasted lady......(admirably breasted lady).... was on a day that mattered =- there

    FYI - it is matter of my disorder that I will seek to defend/advance the fine world of ladies who make sense.

    FYI - it is matter of my disorder that I will seek to defend/advance the fine world of ladies who make sense.

  104. Chekhov,

    from South American politics via a medical emergency to 'Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf."


  105. Thank you everybody - that clearly helped! the IT all worked, the livebox didn't turn itself off, and the car outside waited until I had finished before its alarm went off for three minutes straight...

    I think I may just have been offered a job.

  106. Your Grice: Indeed. We deny all responsibility for any inconvenience caused.

  107. Right, sod the election - am off to see Four Lions - should cheer me up a bit if its any good.

  108. @thaum:

    Hmm. There's wiser heads than me putting the case that you put re. Clegg's "long game", i.e. that he's giving the Tories (on principle) the chance to fail, and will then climb into the sack with Brown.

    He's given himself wriggle-room, if nothing else.

  109. PB - never occurred to me that you wouldn't. You be`class young lass.

    I know about these things.

  110. Cameron is speaking now - I think (hope) he's blown it. He doesn't seem to be offering nearly enough. If the LibDems say yes to Dave's dodgy deal, then they are fucked as a party. (Although it wouldn't surprise me if they turned out to be that stupid.)

  111. Yes, although he too offered quite a lot of wiggle room. We shall see!

  112. Wiggle room? Only an 'enquiry' on electoral reform? I can't see that flying with the LibDem supporters.

  113. Me neither Scherf, "enquiry" is common parlance for "forget it" in political terms. I know Cameron thinks the country is that stupid, but surely he knows Clegg and co would laugh at such an offer (at least i hope they would, or will their yearning for a little taste of power crush their principles?)

    Brown has now said he's open to full PR. God help the Tories if we somehow get an open referendum on electoral reform, though the right wing press will come out against it with such fury that FPTP might be kept (which would be utterly heartbreaking).

  114. scherf / jay - 'enquiry' is only one step up from 'consultation exercise' in the 'well, you can forget about that, sunshine' stakes.

    libdems have sensibly saidthere will be nothing more said (publicly, at least) today, and are having a nap.

    really fancy a nap. in the sleepy sense, napoleon, don't be worried...

  115. Well, no, I doubt the LDs will go for that either. But Cameron hasn't entirely ruled out a referendum; a bit like haggling over a used car, he's starting from a position he might move from. Although can't see the party supporting much movement.

  116. Jay, if I were Clegg I'd insist on immediate legislation to change the FPTP system. Not necessarily to the LibDem's favoured system straightaway, but at least a move in the right direction, with a binding commitment to a referendum in the near future. Brown is the only one who would deliver that (if he could). It's time for the LibDems to go for broke or they'll never be a real political force. If a future minority government fails, then the injustice of the present voting system where the LibDems got very few seats for a large percentage of the vote can only help them in the next election.

  117. "if I were Clegg I'd insist on immediate legislation to change the FPTP system."

    I dont think the Tories would let Cameron do it - they know its the end of rule as they know it. So few of them have even a shred of principle that i just cant see them letting him do that, sadly. They will be fuming as it is that he failed to get a majority.

  118. Hey all,

    Well, fat lot of good my 0.8 of a vote did: it didn't work! No one I work with voted for their winning candidate either (work sits on the border of 3 or 4 constituencies) anyone here actually get what they voted for?

  119. Hello
    Congrats Phillipa.

    So now it's wait and see time - the horror begins.

    For some time now I have been asking myself how we revive the socialist left. Who are the target voters - how do we do it ? Fragmented anger is not the answer.

    Voting reform - only part of the problem.

    Hold tight everybody - a rough ride ahead.

  120. "anyone here actually get what they voted for? "

    Of course not, this is Britain ;)

  121. Not me Dot, although the Tory didn't get in. It is criminal that for just under 20% of the vote the SNP return just 6 MPs...

  122. Someone on CIF lobbed these stats into the mix:
    Tories: 35,087 votes per seat.
    Labour: 33,247 votes per seat.
    Lib Dems: 120,140 votes per seat.
    Democracy? My arse.

  123. Hi Leni

    Good points!

    The Left needs to get it,s act together and come to
    a consensus vis a vis key issues such as health,education,industry,transport.

    I would like a future Government of the Left to be
    committed to things like-

    1)re-nationalising the railway network

    2)a commitment to re-balancing the economy so we
    are less dependant on financial services.

    3)more /streaming in schools so that some kids get
    a more academic education whilst others a more
    vocational training.

    4)much more investment in good quality vocational
    training for British workkers.

    5)a special tax on companies thatgoes solely toward
    the ongoing upgrading of workers skills.Leaving it
    all up to the State isn,t the answer.

    6)more investment in clean coal technologies which
    could ultimately lead to the the re-opening of some
    mines and therefore hopefully the breathing of new
    life into mining commuities.

    7)a committment to the returning of power back to
    the people-eg local level-with the right checks and
    balances to ensure it isn,t abused.

    8)a committment to giving more power back to doctors.
    head teachers,surgeons etc-again with checks and
    balances-and getting rid of all the wasteful bureaucracy that is draining public funds from much
    needed public services

    9)a committment to a 100% elected and fully accountable Second Chamber.And the intro of PR.

    10)a committment to using the tax and benefit system
    to significantly reduce the inequality in this

    These are in no particular order of personal preference and there are many many more to add.
    However the Left needs to stop squabbling and get
    backs to it,s working class roots.And come up with
    a set of policies that will make it electable
    without selling out like New Labour did.

  124. Agree 100% Paul. But what working class? It's all aspiring middle, or underclass now. And what Left? There is no Left left. Look at the implosion of the Socialists in Scotland...

    Allah help us...

  125. Great points Paul - but as Turminder and I point out - there is no Left. We all know this.

    For such policies to be implemented there has to be a desire, a hunger and a determination to fight for them.

    What is lacking - basing my thoughts on discussions here - apart from an impotent anger is a lack of understanding - a sad questioning of 'what went wrong'. Not enough to continually blame Thatcher - and sitting back moaning.

  126. Fuck fuck fuck. HAd to resend my job application as it was not in the right format, so back to square one. So, three days and one application sent. 119 left to go.

    And many it is not even simply a case of emailing or finding their adress to get the application form, you can't jsut go off mailing your CV. You have to phone an 0845 number and they will send or email you an application form, filling it out on a computer is a nightmare, especially on a laptop, accidental erasings, deletions, crashes erc. I much prefer pen and paper

    Why do all jobs require previous expereince, even ones for low level, quite un-intellectual level challenigng. In this Orwellian/Huxleyan dystopia, people have been reudced to being assumed of base idiocy. My dad, of Sheffield mining and steelworking stock, has not got a single qualifiaction, yet he knows lots of practical things round the house, plumbing, diy, builidng etc. He is also a very big reader. In his day, qualifications and certificates were not fetishised and worshipped as they are today. I'm mad with this Kafkaesque situation

    That said, I am thinking of quitting cif, quitting here and quitting my blog. My voice has no right to be heard, I have nothing to say

  127. Its a good checklist Paul, and hardly outrageous demands either.

    (I'd also like to second Turminder's call for Allah to intervene on our side)

  128. "Why do all jobs require previous expereince, even ones for low level, quite un-intellectual level challenigng."

    Apparently only graduates, with a 2.1, are capable of doing recruitment. Which, judging by the recruitment consultants I've endured, is quite astonishing.

  129. Nap

    That is part of the problem - the 'nobody's listening to me ' - so we just shut up and allow them to walk on us.

  130. Leni

    To say there is no Left is right on one level however
    politics isn,t a fixed phenomenon.It changes/evolves
    over time.We both agree that tough times are ahead.
    But hopefully what will emerge from the ashes is a
    new model of social democracy in this country.Not
    saying it will be easy and as we know a lot of people
    -mainly working class- are going to suffer in the

  131. I'm so pissed off the only thing that can calm me down is the Greek protest dog.

    Fucksakes, I might as well go and be a barge hauler on the Volga or something, or live like a peasant in a Tolstoy novel. At least then I will be free from the madness of society.

  132. Leni.

    Maybe. The good news. That electoral reform protest George Monbiot was talking on about, there is one in Glasgow tomorrow and I will attend. At least then I will meet some people of hte same persuaion

  133. Jay

    The old learning the job by 'sitting next to Nellie' has long gone. This method was based on the assumption of common sense, ability and the concept of transference of learning, transferable skills.

    We have somehow moved to a position where everybody has to be taught, lectured and trained by a certain section of society. A big part of the disempowerment culture.

  134. You'll need a city and guilds for barge hauling Nap, and a site card. The advantage of onlin apps is after you've done a few youhave all the typing done so it speed up and you can Ctrl-c Ctrl-v.

    In fact as I had applied for so many jobs with my current employer before landing this one, I often only had to change the Ref.# and tweak the statement. Remember;

    100 apps = 1 interview

    1-10 interviews = Job offer.

    Take heart from PBs good luck. Also lighten up a bit, be less serious, less 'conciously intelectual' you might like it... ; )

    Right all, afk for a bit. l8rs mateys.

  135. Nap - I know the situation is shit, but are you OK? Latest posts sound a bit despairing - I mean, I know that new town / job hunt etc can drive you to despair, just - sounds like you might be not in a good place in yourself, if you see what I mean. Hope that's not out of place to say...

    Please don't quit - CIF, here or your blog - they might not seem important when you're dealing with the big stuff, but the outlet - and maybe the community feeling - could be a good thing as you do. Sounding board, suggestions box, whatever.

  136. Nap

    No - no - no. That is where soi many have gone wrong - don't accept this lowly assessment of your place in society. Make them listen - there is a huge amount of talent and ability in the working people, we are as intelligent and resourceful as anybody. We have lost our spirit - don't you go that way too.

    Remember - the Volga bargeman is as capable of thought and analysis as any oxbridge type.

  137. Hi guys

    Would suggest that learning some fluid social dynamics as it were would help. The ideologies that are commonplace are way old and outdated (allowing them some validity). We're living in the 21st C not the 19th.

    NapK maybe lay off all that russian nihilism? You're a person you have as much right to have a say as any. We're all just the same like that duh. That's why I find it all so funny (sigh)

    Hi Leni, identity, interest and group it's a dynamic. But you gotta add a touch of magic or it's soulless.

  138. Nap,

    I've done some recruiting, it's always worth applying even if you miss one or two of the essential criteria: generally it's a list of what the ideal candidate will have, and actually the ideal candidate doesn't always apply!

    Always make sure you use their keywords as near as possible to the top of your application. For the first read through of applications they'll probably only be skim reading it: relevant stuff first, otherwise they'll get bored and move on to the next application before they get to it!

    I had to read 50 odd applications and the number of people who went on about their knitting skills (or whatever) instead of their biology skills was depressing!

  139. And the problem of course is CVs applciation forms.

    You are essentially selling yourself and I have an objection to that.

    There is usually a Bindel/Bea/Bidi/Cath article every week talking about the objectification of women. I admit that they are sometimes right.

    But how many articles do we have about the objectification of society at large, of the my and deference to the 'rulebook'. This is objectifying us all, 100% of us, not the 50% wdevaluing of independant autonoho are female. Where are the articles?

    Thanks to the Guardian middle class leftist worldviw (Human Resources junkies, diversity quotas) we are in this situation.

  140. Pen

    the magic (internal) is to recognise that self as defined by others is not static - self is mobile, ever changing once we free it.

    We cannot recreate the old left - its time has passed. We are no longer up against L/R thinking - the base has changed, the game has changed. We have to change ours.

  141. Thanks for all the comments. Welcome back Pen- I love my Russian Nihilism, altohugh I would prefer to style myself as a Chekhovian humanist than a Dostoevskian style Nihilist or a Tolsoyan fool. Gogol is although worht a laugh for his grotesque cynicism and satire.

    Sing along folks.

    эй ухнем, эй ухнем.
    ещо разик, ещо раз.

    Damn, I need a fucking outlet. Might I be permitted to write on the UT2 about my reflections on Russian literature?

  142. Afternoon all,

    (Philippa, el pipsterinha, parabens para voce!!)

    So it did turn out to be a sham of a mockery, of a sham, of a mockery in the end then, and in my opinion, it's about time that our system/racket was shown to be so.

    Here's my best case scenario, if anyone's interested:

    Cameron and Clegg fail to reach an 'agreement', and then Clegg, Brown and some of the 'others', agree to push through electoral reform (given that Labour have nothing to lose, and the others have a lot to gain), and given that the non-votes cast thing will continue to overshadow whatever result can be said to have been achieved.

    Then, once this is agreed on, everything else pretty much falls apart, and we go back to the polls in about two or three months, and for the first time in the history of British politics, we have a fair(er) crack at choosing a representative assembly, and escape the shite of the two party system of circle-jerks and back room blow-jobs, and finally have something that at least resembles a democracy.

  143. Fucksakes, my spelling errors, two posts above. My computer jumps the mouse cursor sometimes.

    But how many articles do we have about the objectification of society at large, of the devaluing of independant autonomy and deference to the 'rulebook'. This is objectifying us all, 100% of us, male and female not the 50% who are female. Where are the Guradian articles?

  144. James
    Now we watch the haggling - it will not be an edifying spectacle. Already murmurings of going for Brown's head - who might replace him @

  145. napoleon - that's a common complaint when certain issues (such as working culture) are see through a gender prism rather than as something that impact everybody (and where class is often mentioned as an alternative approach) - there are certainly to my mind issues that warrant a feminist approach but also very many where that polarises and divides the constituency actually affected, and a much more balanced systemic view would be welcome...

  146. Hi NapK I mean, you know, I'm not saying denounce it but it is a bit soul destroying and probably wrong as a guiding light. We do matter, all of us, each of us, and I'm not religious (just mad, snigger).

    Hi Leni, sure I know that, it's all the people who act as though they and their selves are static and linear. They turn themselves into robots and I am not a robot (smirk).

    Since my view was a plague on both houses (labour and tory, not that I am libdem) I don't think it was a bad result and if it brings electoral reform maybe even a relatively good one.

  147. What has been the main feature of this election? "Cleggmania". Cleggmania has focused entirely on electoral reform.

    Where were the fundamental questions being answered? What economic solutions for the benefit of all were offered by all three? What radical change in foreign policy was being offered by all three? What genuine promises were given that the banks and big business would no longer have a stranglehold on the country?

    None. None whatsoever. In its place we have the technical horse trading between an Etonian whose party is completely in thrall to big business, a bureucratic professional politician who adheres to the market and probably Milliband or Balls, two other technocrats.

    When the dust clears what will the country have? A government that still represents the interests of the financial and political elite.

    Inequalities will continue to increase, the pressure on the poor, unemployed and those employed will increase. Public services will be slashed, the deficit will be cut by cutting down hard socio-economically on the population.

    To paraphrase Karl Liebknecht’s observation of Bismarck’s first German constitution- Electoral reform is a fig leaf for neo-liberal absolutism.

    It won't change a thing. Not a damn thing.

    I need a drink.

  148. Leni,

    Yeah it probably won't be pretty, but I think we'll actually see a relatively quick breakdown of negotiations.

    Cameron has pretty much said that he's not moving on certain issues, and Clegg would be stupid to go down the Tory route for a number of reasons, and I think the best he can hope to gain from this situation is electoral reform.

    Not only would he gain from it as things stand now, but, should we adopt a better system, I suspect we'd see less tactical voting, and the Lib Dems, plus some smaller parties (perhaps even a truly leftist party, (although perhaps also the BNP too!?)) would stand to gain too.

    Here's hoping anyways....

  149. Electoral reform will change the decision rules by which representatives are chosen. It is not a panacea duh. But it would help shake up the UK political scene which is no bad thing and might make a bit of difference like kicking a faulty machine.

    Nihilism tends to be destructive of effort at both the personal and the collective level.

  150. Leni,

    Also, replacement wise, I'd say it'd be either Balls, or a Milipede, so, you know, it aint looking good!!!

  151. James

    millepedes have an instinct for hiding in dark places.

    I cannot think of any body in Nulab I wouls support as leader. Balls is a frightening prospect - cannot understand what it is about him that suggest 'leadership' qualities. Desperate situation of being in a place of no choice perhaps.

  152. Pen,

    I agree that it's by no means a panacea, but I think it's fair to say it's a good start....



    I despise Balls and the Milipedes.
    Ultimately, it's going to come down to a decision at Labour HQ of whether yesterday constitutes a total rejection of New Labour, or whether it's merely a rejection of Gordon Brown.

    I think they'll decide on the latter, and it'll be a case of shuffling an even more New Labour reptile into his place.

    (My money's on Milipede the elder, for what it's worth!)

  153. Catching up with what's been said further up.

    Philippa. Fingers and toes crossed for your job. I really hope you get it.

    Napoleon. Something to make you chuckle from this month's Viz Profanisaurus:

    Glasgow marathon n. A walk to the chip shop, tobacconist or off licence in your pyjamas, slippers and coat.

  154. Leni + James

    Ed Balls and his missus Yvette would be potentially
    even worse than Tony and Cherie.The good thing is
    they and their ilk would sound the final death knell
    for the Labour Party-and using the forest fire analogy
    this could set the seed for something better.As i said
    before though a lot of vulnerable people are going to
    get hurt in the process.

  155. Just back from seeing Four Lions. Its incredibly funny, warm and humane and I loved it. It's also mainly set in Sheffield so it felt very local. If you want cheering up I really recommend it.

  156. This comment has been removed by the author.

  157. This comment has been removed by the author.

  158. Paul,

    It's possible that this will provide a catalyst for a political forest fire, but unfortunately I don't see it happening.

    Labour has been so infected and infested with the 'new', that I just can't see them rejecting it.
    As I said above, I think GB will be used as a scapegoat (perhaps because he's not new labour enough?), and we'll see someone more Milibandish(/Tony Blairish/David Cameronish) chosen to take the project forward.

    And I agree that this will see alot of people f@cked, disenfranchised and forgotten, but we already know that this prospect isn't nearly enough to stop it happening....

  159. Above post deleted because blogger's gone daft!!

  160. Apparently the bnp have lost all their (12) council seats in Dagenham and Barking.

  161. James

    Fair point but if we see an increase in social and industrial unrest it could just trigger off demands
    for change which will reflected-hopefully-in shifts
    in the political process.Creation of a new political
    party perhaps.Tne intro of PR + more power devolved
    back to local level etc

    It may not be the best of analogies but by 1945 a
    combination of the trauma,s of depression followed
    by world war drove a sea change in opinion in this
    country.And as you know this saw a Labour Party elected to government with a mandate from the people for radical change.

  162. Paul,

    It is possible that this creates a grassroots movement for something, more representative parties maybe, but I suspect, unless the voting system changes, they'll suffer the same 'wasted vote' fate that they do now.

    The problem, I think, is that we've been so consistently kicked and trodden on, that we've developed some kind of f@cked up stockholm syndrome/battered spouse complex, and we're willing to accept the beatings because we convince ourselves that we do mean something to them, or that they're less worse than the other lot, who are really mean.

    I've said this before on my blog, but one of the greatest coups of Tony 'cock-knocker' Blair and the New Labour project was the realisation that they could do what the f@ck they liked with the bottom lot, because, nine times out of ten, they'd never vote Tory, and who, ultimately, had very few other ways to make themselves heard....

    The job was, as they say, from their point of view, a good 'un!!

    Bunch of bastards....

    Anyway, have a good night everyone,

    and don't have nightmares!

  163. NuLab:
    more deaths in war than any other government since 1945

    assaults on civil liberties and continuation of punitive policies introduced by the previous tory governments

    economic policies that favoured the banks and sustained what Major had done, sacrificing the idea of a solid economic base for one that was fragile and dependent on shallow non sustainable growth.

    Greater inequalities of income than ever before

    Historical cuts in public spending

    could go on.......nulab don't deserve to govern they are immoral, corrupt, tories in disguise

    with Cameron at the helm expect more of the same....

  164. My brain is trying to escape my very drunk skull.

    954 visitors to day.

    Montana - things could indeed get messy but I still adore your wit, your site and the people it attracts. A little in a dark place is always welcome. Thank you for being............my love.

    Nap Don't leave us.

  165. A little light in a dark place............I did say my brain was drunk!

  166. Evenig. Had a lie down and went for a walk round the city, now I feel somewhat calmer. Friday night, of course, plenty of people on the town.

  167. Oh dear christos (and Nap) it is a cold dark field in which I live the latter part of my life. And now it has tarted raining for the I hear the rain on the roof of my'van.

    Now I ,must rise from bed and find out what is left to drink - will it be wine or will it be tea or water..............

  168. Oh thank you dear god - I find one last bottle of wine in my shopping - you are much kinder than I deserve.

    Nap I awoke to find no warm woman in my bed sadly only a breadcake. Methinks I ought to attend the important

  169. Heyhabib

    You about mate!

  170. Deano. Are you alright?

  171. 971 visitors - will we make a thousand before midnight?

    I have attended the important and sent my sometime a text which reads "Love you". She is an intelligent lass and will know what I mean.

  172. I am well young Nap. Thank you for your enquiry it is much appreciated.

    Good to see you Paul.

  173. evening All

    I.ve settled into spectator mode for the moment. How long before we know anything beyond speculation is unclear.


    One day you life sounds idyllic and the next likesomething approaching a dark, damp cave. Are you doing cave paintings tonight - Mungo rampant perhaps?

  174. Deano

    Take three shots from the best with me:





  175. Deano

    Are you ok?You take it easy!

  176. Here also this:


    Daft. Like it

  177. Iwas locked out for most of last night - now the counter isn't visible.

  178. Lenni - my life is good young miss. As the saying goes I should complain. I have said how much I adore you? Recently? - well I should if I have'nt


    Miss Diesel dog has signalled her views on life by eating the breadcake I found in my bed.

    Cheers BW &Paul

  179. Ride a pony.

    So right.


  180. And to Gordon Brown...


  181. Here's "the message"


    From about 1971


  182. It's easy.

    Just take my links and paste them into you url

    the bit that says http://

    Do it

    Do. It.

  183. Early and sober night for me I think.


  184. Paul - I like you a lot. Spunky young men are something to be admired. By the way I adore my two sons, almost as much their sister, for the same reason.

    That said I think you are wrong in your opinion of Sheff. I have never (yet) met her but I have read her for over a year now.

    Did you know her closest sister was.........

    Sheff's best mate


  185. That Tory Pink Vote in fulll


  186. Lenni - that should have been ..Have I said
    not I have said................thank heavens you are an understanding woman.

  187. Evening all - drive-by posting as I have a bit of time on the intarwebz.

    Blimey, what a bizarre and incredible 24 hours.

    I am happy with the idea of a hung parliament for now, although a good deal less happy about Clegg getting into bed with Cameron. I reckon if there is a Lib-Lab coalition, Brown will have to go.

    But it might just be enough of a kick up the bum to actually get something approaching electoral reform on the table finally.

    Strange and exciting times ahead, perhaps...

    My Portillo moment was naturally when Griffin got a right pasting in Barking. I was also pleased to see the back of Jacqui Smith though.

    Hope everyone is well - will try and read some of the comments if I don't get ousted by me laddo.

    Hugs x

  188. For Hank.


    A tower of a gent.

  189. And here are the Gaylads.

    For Paul.


  190. How lovely to see you BB - I am all the warmer for your welcome hug.

    I am still pissed off with your accountant.