07 June 2009

Daily Chat 07/06/09

Slow day for history. In 1628, Charles I granted Royal Assent to the Petition of Right and in 1965, the US Supreme Court rules that married couples may use contraception. Celebrating birthdays: Tom Jones, Liam Neeson, Prince, Dave Navarro and Cafu. It is Sette Giugno in Malta.


  1. annetan, Montana: Thanks for the advice.

    Montana’s seems simpler to me, so let’s give it a go


  2. Very important birthday today - my son's. Happy Birthday Pete! :o)

  3. Happy Birthday Pete.

    Are you the politically inspired arsonist? Nice one!

  4. I was about to break the monotony by saying "felix navidad" but that probably means something like "fortunate waterway" rather than happy birthday.

  5. bah...feliz, even

  6. Anybody else had problems with Cif today or is it my ISP? I'm thinking maybe my ISP doesn't like Sundays or something. Chrome keeps crashing. As I recall, it was last Sunday that I had this same problem, then it worked fine all week. Extremely frustrating situation when you have laundry that needs to be avoided and nothing to avoid doing it with.

  7. Seems to be some sort of re-enactment of Cable Street going on in Manchester...on Sky News now

  8. Last attempt lost in the aether - let's try again!

    Bonne anniversaire, Pierre!

    Tom Jones, eh? Mr. Thaumaturge has a regrettable fondness for TJ and has even been known to have a go at 'Delilah' at karaoke. (Mind you, there was alcohol involved, of course.) Still, he's Welsh - what can you do?

    I'm guessing that Sette Giugno means 'seventh of June' - but what's the significance?

  9. Fencewalker: Anymore on that breaking news?

    I can’t bring myself to check Sky (my dad was a Wapping refusenik), so I’ll have to wait for the news at ten on R4.

  10. Thauma, yes, it means 7th of June. Something about rebelling against your lot back in about 1919 and a bunch of Maltese civilians being killed by British soldiers. It's apparently their national day now.

    Still having weirdenss with Cif and I'm using Explorer right now, even though I hate it and comments on Cif aren't loading. Grrrr.

  11. In fact, R4 has some sort of Euro election special on this evening.

    Does anyone know where Nick Griffin is standing?

  12. Montana - ah, rebelling against the colonialists. Perfectly understandable.

    Hardly ever bother with Cif at home as it generally crashes my system. Am trying to keep up with election liveblog but when I turned it to auto-reload it slowed everything down to a crawl, so I've turned it off.

  13. Andy - this might be a clue:

    Anti-BNP protesters stopped the party's leader Nick Griffin from entering tonight's Euro election count in Manchester.
    Placard waving demonstrators surrounded a number of cars - one of which was thought to be carrying Mr Griffin - when they arrived at Manchester Town Hall.
    The cars, one of which apparently had a window broken, drove away without anyone getting out.


    Although I had the idea he was actually standing somewhere further north.

  14. I just really do seem to have a ghost in my machine today. Even here, I just had problems getting the page to load properly. I'm just about ready to pack it in. Bear in mind that I'm a tech ignoramus, but could weather play a part in all of this? It's a really overcast, humid day here. High pressure, and kinda got that "tornado warnings & thunderstorms any minute now" feel to it.

  15. Hi thauma: that seems to answer both my questions.

    The Euro elections are held by region, aren’t they? The result for the North East has just been on the radio. Lab, Con, and Lib each got one MEP.

    I think Griffin is standing in the North West region, the count for which might well be in Manchester.

  16. andysays
    Griffin's standing in the North West region.

  17. Oh yeah - and good news about the Belgian elections & the goings on in Manchester. Show the racist scum up, folks.

    Really depressing US immigration thread on Cif today that I did actually manage to get one comment on. Unfortunately, the comment I made probably makes me sound like I'm one of the right-wingers. Someone whinged about Americans calling ourselves Americans. I pointed out that it is the name of the country and not a racist plot.

  18. Montana - United Statesians' calling themselves Americans does rather wind up citizens of the rest of the Americas.... ;-)

    But I think they'd be more relaxed about it with different US policies. As it is, it sounds like colonisation of both continents, methinks.

  19. Apparently Griffin HAS got into Manchester Town Hall.

    Which of you is in that North West region?

    Is Griffin reckoned to be in with a chance?

    I’ve been rubbishing the BNPs chances on CiF this afternoon, and I’d hate to end up with egg on my face, quite apart from not wanting the bastard to get in.

  20. #Sinn Fein is tipped to win in Northern Ireland #


  21. Here's an update from Bru, posted on CiF a few hours ago:

    “Just thought I'd let you be the first to know - great news from Antwerp. It looks as though in the regional elections, that the Vlaams Belang vote has crashed.

    The results still have to be confirmed but in their bastion Antwerp, it seems they have polled around 18% - down from their usual 34%.

    The Wilders success just over the border hasn't had a knock-on effect in Belgium.

    Have a good evening - I'm going to have a great one (always assuming the provisional results are correct of course).”

  22. Thauma, the trouble is Mexico is officially "The United States of Mexico" and Brazil is officially "The United States of Brazil", so sooner or later they'd start taking offence at that, too. Whether anyone else in this hemisphere likes it or not, the name of the fricking country is America and the people who live in it are Americans.

    My connectivity problems continue and I'm probably going to pack it in soon, folks. I hope it will all magically go away soon, just like it did last week.

  23. Fantastic news from the South East.

    England beat Pakistan in the 20/20 at The Oval. Phew.

  24. Andy
    No, mate, I'm not in the NW but given that it's a regional vote & so wider than those areas where the BNP have got a toehold in councils, I wouldn't have thought he stood that much of a chance.
    BTW, Griffin has the right, as a candidate, to be present at the count. Unfortunate, I agree, especially for the poor buggers doing the counting, but he can't be stopped from going in by Manchester council or anyone else if he wants to be there.

  25. Montana - we can just settle on Merkins and everyone can be happy, no? ;-)

    Mexicans also get upset when people refer to them as Central or even South Americans - FFS! Son norteamericanos!

  26. Listening to Radio 5 Euro chat, sounds like conservative consolidations / increases are expeced in Italy, France and Germany, Poland too.

    Meanwhile, there in bligty, the Labour line is that it's all about the expenses.

    They genuinely believe that if it wasn't for that and the economy, they'd be in with a fighting chance.

    What fucking planet are they on ?

  27. Wow
    Nick Griffin right now, Radio 5 absolutely nailed Labour's PFI theivery...

    Can anyone confirm I'm not tripping ?

  28. MsChin: I hope you’re right about his chances.

    I agree that, as a legitimate candidate in a democracy, Griffin has a right to be at the count. I can’t really blame the Mancs for not letting him in without a bit of a tussle though.

    Swifty: wasn’t that match played at the Oval?

    I haven’t been there for a few years, but unless it’s been dismantled, shipped out to somewhere in the Home Counties and reassembled, surely that’s in London, which was a region unto itself when I voted on Thursday.

  29. Bugger, I was hoping people would go left instead of right. Vain hope, I know.

  30. Steady, Bitterweed, next you’ll be telling us the BNP are on the left...

  31. @B/W:

    The Labour line is that it's going to be a "difficult night". Oh yes. Reminds me rather of the Black Knight in Monty Python and The Holy Grail.

    King Arthur: [after Arthur's cut off both of the Black Knight's arms] Look, you stupid bastard. You've got no arms left.
    Black Knight: Yes I have.
    King Arthur: *Look*!
    Black Knight: It's just a flesh wound.

  32. The BNP have developed a following in the old mill towns of Lancashire - Burnley etc that's why Griffin is thought to be in with a shout in the NE region.

    Hope the bastard rots I'm not up to scratch with the news - have been hospital visting today.

  33. @andy:

    Well, London's in the South East isn't it? Last time I looked at a map it was.

  34. Duh - didn't check out the regional maps properly. Yes, of course Griffin would be in NW.

  35. Polly Toynbee is on BBC News. UK MEPs pay up 24% in the next pay round.


  36. andysays
    No he really did say it quite eloquantly. Shame he's the mouthpiece for a gang of white supremacists. Even if they are left wing ;-)

    I did a couple of benefit gigs for the miners in the early eighties, and was astonished how often I'd hear strong Scargil supporters - proud Labour men - being pretty fucking racist...

    Lol, indeed.

    Good news about the cricket

    Right, hitting the sack (mores the pity, looks like tonight's going to be quite something)

  37. "UK MEPs pay up 24% in the next pay round."

    F.... ?!!!!!

  38. Swifty: Don't worry, your map reading skills haven't deserted you.

    London is a separate region to the South East for Euro election purposes, and in my personal opinion is a totally different place.

    I’m a Londoner not a South-Easterner.

    But yes, London is in the south east of Britain as opposed to the north-west. You haven't been holding the map upside down for all those years ;-)

  39. Gelukkig verjaardag Piet..... (Dutch for Happy Birthday)

    Seems in France, Germany and Italy, the ruling parties are doing well in the Euro elections (yes even Sarkozy).

    Same in Belgium. However turnout has been on average a meagre 43% which is even lower than last time round.

    Next time I see Valkeniers, the head of the Vlaams Belang, I shall permit myself a little smirk.

    Cocoa and bed now.....

  40. @B/W:

    "astonished how often I'd hear strong Scargil supporters - proud Labour men - being pretty fucking racist..."

    I'm astonished you were astonished, mate, to be honest. Lots of working class people are racist. For the most part, though, their racism plays second fiddle to the rest of their politics. However...

    In the absence of left wing politics in their party of choice, who knows what takes priority?

  41. Bru - oh god, even Berlusconi?

  42. If I’d known they were in line for a pay rise like that, I might have stood myself.

    R4 seem to be suggesting the BNP might get an MEP in Yorkshire & Humberside.

    Hi m-w-n-n.

    Are you new here? You’ve picked a fun time to look us up, if so.

  43. Eric Pickles is getting a bit of a kicking from erstwhile (Question Time) sparring partner Dimbleby.

    Akways good to see the fat smug twat getting his cock end tweaked by Dimbleby.

  44. A BNP MEP for Yorkshire - perish the thought ...

  45. Speaking of Caroline Flint (which they just were on the Guardian blog) - if any male politician posed for photos with, say, his shirt unbuttoned to reveal his manly chest, and sporting a pair of tight trousers with an interesting bulge - would anyone take him seriously as a politician?

  46. @thauma:

    Poor Flinty. She's really coppping it from the Brown machine now, isn't she?

  47. Swifty

    *putting my feminist hat on*

    I don't have much sympathy since she's betrayed the sisterhood.

    Seriously, if she had a point to make about sexism in the govt, it would have been better made if she'd pushed up her policies in public instead of her tits.

  48. Michael Meacher's pissing in the wind on BBC News, err, I mean, he's hopeful that bad election results will result in a change of policy in the high echelons of the Labour Party.

    Keep pissing, Meachers old son.

    Tessa Jowell's on the studio panel. She's a fucking horror. Slippery as an eel. Shame about her estranged hubby getting fingered over in Silvio's fiefdom.

  49. @thauma:

    She's betrayed the sisterhood because she appeared in the Observer Women's section wearing "look good on a shoestring" dresses?

  50. Hmm, I don't read Women's sections, so it sounds like I missed the context. Nobody mentioned that in the storis of the last couple of days!

    Will have to go and think about that for a while, but there's no doubt the pics have been used against her.

    Initial reaction is still "politicians shouldn't have 'looking good' as a major concern". Of course they are all concerned about image but reclining on a sofa with a come-hither look takes it too far IMHO.

  51. @thauma:

    I don't like Caroline Flint. However... here's a bit of your context:


    She's being assassinated by Brown's briefing machine.

    Does she deserve it? You decide.

  52. Well the BNP have got 6% of the regional vote in the East, so not exactly a landslide for them there.

    I'm with thauma, Flint could have modelled the frocks without the chaise & the come-hither bit.

  53. Andy Burnham's saying the BNP are a "protest vote" against Westminster.

    Hmm. In which case, at the sleazy fag end of John Major's government, where were the BNP then?

    What's changed in the last 12 years?

  54. On R4, Simon Hughes is talking, briefly, about resisting the BNP and their arguments, and making some good points.

    Unfortunately we’re whisked off to the count at Manchester, to be told there’s no result yet.

    Hughes usually strikes me as pretty sound, for a Lib-Dem, which is something of a qualification.

  55. @MsChin:

    "Flint could have modelled the frocks without the chaise & the come-hither bit."

    Remind me why the photoshoot props make a difference?

  56. Their tactics, swifty. They cut lawns for old ladies and find housing for local black people these days, apparently.

  57. Jessica Morley wotsit manages to model clothes in the Guardian every week without props & without looking like a 30s vamp, swifty.

  58. @MsChin:

    Ah I see. Nothing to do with (takes a deep breath) the lack of a party standing up for the woking man, alongside a perceived rise in immigration?

  59. Just going by what I'm told, swifty, they're active in the area where I work!

  60. @MsChin:

    Uh huh. Flint was never really popular with women either, if I recall.

    Seems the anti-Flint arguments are well advanced and gaining traction. Guess we'll be reading more about her in the Graun from Mad "Mad" Bunting or her ilk tomorrow.

  61. @MsChin:

    Indeed she is. And apparently resentment of immigration is a factor in the rise of the BNP.

    You don't say, Poll.

  62. OH NO!!!!!
    We have a BNP MEP for Yorkshire. Ras, me can't belive it.

  63. Well my vote was certainly pissed windward.

    I took a break out to start watching the final series of Battlestar Galactica on DVD (don't ANYBODY tell me how it goes!) with a bottle or two of wine - hence no reply Andy ('pologies). Griffin went round the back door it seems (not the first time, if the rumours be true). Seems like the BNP breakthrough hasn't quite happened, thank fuck (though they seem to have won a seat - is that right?). Perhaps it was the David Lammy article. Pirate Party seems to have done well in Sweden.
    Agree with what Swifty says on the BNP. I know it gets rubbished on CiF, but as I understand it (and I'm damned if I'm going to their site to check) parts of their policy are kinda left wing, and I can see how some people might think it was a kind of surrogate for the Labour of their youth.
    BNP have two strongholds locally (though allegedly at least one of those is composed of cadres from Raynham - immigrants, eh?). You ought to hear what some of the local kids think, even the cleverish ones.

  64. Are you watching this BNP bloke speaking in Leeds? Mildest mannered of fascisti, inne? And yet listen to what Nick Robinson's saying about him. Appearances are damned deceptive.

  65. Brons, the new BNP MEP for Yorks, has just been talking on the bbc about the demise of the old Labour Party ...

  66. Yep, fencewalker, & the man has not a trace of a Yorkshire accent

  67. @Fencewalker:

    Yep, just heard that.

    Who's the toothy blonde with the pearl necklace doing the Euro analysis on the Beeb, by the way? She's "fontashtic".

  68. Mmm..I didn't buy the "Brown Bounce" and I don't buy "death of Labour" either. There'll be some bloodletting, but they'll come back. By gum, though, Tories first in Wales.
    Jury Team seem to have come nowhere.

    Jeez 13,000 people voted for the Christian party.

  69. I think she's some sort of politics lecturer.

  70. Fuck. A BNP MEP.

    If I wanted to make a regionalist quip I could say something derogatory about Yorkshire, but it won’t make me feel any better.

    It’s grim news just before I go to bed.

    Anyone got anything to cheer me up?

  71. I was born in Yorkshire, so I feel for you.

  72. Ooops. Labour down 12% in Wales boyo.

    Gak. Very glad I'm not in Downing St tonight.

  73. Andy: Swedish results may make music reissues cheaper.

    Er...that's it

  74. @andy:

    I'm from Yorkshire. Proud of it too.

  75. Brons reputed ex Nat Front!

  76. Should wake up to interesting headlines.

    Danny Finkelstein: "a massive personal victory for Michael Foot" arf.

    I was in a bookshop with Michael Foot once. And Sunny Jim Callaghan once held a door open for me in the Commons. Anyone beat that (I expect everybody).

  77. Sorry to all those with Yorkshire connections.

    It was uncalled for and unworthy of me.

    Maybe I should resign to spend more time with my family.

  78. Isn't #resign...family2 now an official translation for "I think Labour are going to lose"?

  79. Did anyone else think Griffin looked nervous in his interview?

  80. Probably.

    I'm too tired to care right now, to be honest.


  81. Yep. fence, didn't look quite at ease did he?

  82. Sorry, that was my answer to your comment @ 00.05.

    I didn't see the Griffin interview.

    Maybe he thought he was going to be bottled off...

  83. Naw andy, I imagine he's nervous cos' he's not sure of winning. And he must be well pissed off that Brons beat him in the race to be first!

  84. S'arlgith Andy, realised that. Might have been amusing to see Griffin clonked by a bottle on a live feed to Dimblebum.

  85. S'arlgith?
    Bloody hell:
    "S'alright". Not some Anglo-Saxon guy.

  86. MsChin: Yeah you're probably right.

    My brain has turned to mush with a combination of tiredness and disappointment.


  87. Likewise, so night all

  88. That leaves me as a lonely sentinel for democracy.
    Or summat.
    I shall whistle to keep myself company.
    (how do you spell whistling? A topic for WDYWTTA I think)

  89. Oh fuck Denis McShane's on, and I'm all on my Larry.

  90. "Seriously, if she had a point to make about sexism in the govt, it would have been better made if she'd pushed up her policies in public instead of her tits."

    Very true Thaum, very true.

    a BNP MEP.....

  91. Overall LibDem vote seems to be down again. If Clegg can't manage it in these circumstances...

    Caroline Flint...yeeeees. Glass houses, stones.