05 June 2009

Daily Chat 05/06/09

5 June has been an eventful date:  In 1257, Kraków received city rights; 1849, Denmark becomes a constitutional monarchy; 1915, Denmark passes women's suffrage; 1963, John Profumo resigns; 1968, Robert Kennedy is assassinated by Sirhan Sirhan in Los Angeles; 1977, Apple II goes on sale as the first practical personal computer; 1981, the weekly Morbidity & Mortality Report of the Centers for Disease Control reports on the first 5 recognised cases of AIDS.  Celebrating birthdays today:  Margaret Drabble, Richard Butler (Psychedelic Furs), and Mark Wahlberg (please don't call him Marky Mark anymore).  I don't normally include anniversaries of deaths, but in this case, I'll make an exception: Ronald Reagan died on this day in 2004.  And, it is both Constitution Day and Father's Day in Denmark.  Lykkelig Farsdag, scherfig!

130 comments:

  1. Just as I finished this, the sprog came and asked if he could get this for his iPod. ???

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  2. Alistair Darling to remain Chancellor in today's Cabinet reshuffle? Unlikely 4 days ago, highly likely now.

    What interesting times we are living in.

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  3. Big day in Denmark.

    Lykkelig Farsdag, scherfig! (I’m assuming Montana’s spelling is correct – can’t find my English/Danish dictionary right now).

    Apparently, today is also "Cabinet Reshuffle Day" in Britain.

    It’s often difficult to predict when this day will fall, certainly by consulting a calendar, or even the phases of the moon, but it often happens when the Prime Minister realises he’s in the shit, and wants to provide the impression of change...

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  4. Morning, Swifty.

    I believe you have a significant pecuniary interest in what Gordon gets up to in the next few days?

    Oh yeah, Angelina says “hi”!

    Better run now, my breakfast is ready.

    I need it after last night...

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  5. @andy:

    Morning mate. Is Ange popping the kettle on while you lounge in bed with the wifi-enabled laptop on, cig burning gently in the ashtray?

    I'm amazed you have the energy to type.

    Doesn't look like a huge reshuffle, although admittedly doesn't have many cards in the pack. Straw to remain in post, Darling likewise. And fuck knows what Surallan was doing at No.10 yesterday, maybe he's coaching Brown in his tiresome little catchphrase - "you're fired".

    Or was he talking to someone else?

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  6. @andy:

    Posts crossed in the ether, great minds and all that...

    Yep, I'm in for £2,600 if he does the decent thing. I feel less confident today, oddly, than I did last night.

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  7. “Thanks Angelina, those bacon and eggs were great. Don’t worry about the washing up, I know you’ve got that important filming thingy to do today. Oh, go on then, if you’ve already started.”

    Sorry Swifty, where was I?

    If you’re relying on Gordon to do the decent thing, your money was wasted.

    He’ll need to be prised out of Number Ten with *insert suitable tool here*.

    Your only chance is if the members of his cabinet can persuade him, with or without violence, that the game’s up.

    I don’t think it will happen myself, but best of luck.

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  8. @andy: "I don’t think it will happen myself, but best of luck."

    Yeah, I know. Bugger. I was delighted last night. Now I'm watching my hundred quid disappearing down a bombproof hatch into Der Bunker as everything is locked down and all dissent is stifled. Zhukov is at the steps of the Reichstag but the cyanide pill still lies in the drawer. Bugger again.

    Ah well.

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  9. And Alan Johnson for Home Sec? That's his career down the toilet as well.

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  10. Don’t tear up your betting slip just yet, Swifty.

    If a week is a long time in politics, four weeks is, er, about four times as long, I guess.

    Signing off now to focus on Sustainable Development, though my heart’s not really in it.

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  11. Cheers for the kind words Andy, you enjoy Sustainably Developing, a subject (among many, obviously) I know little about, to be honest.

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  12. First, introductory, section complete.

    One down, eleven more to go.

    Swifty, do you mean the Army didn’t teach you to reduce your carbon footprint or at least recycle your own piss? I am disappointed.

    The good news is, Sonic Youth have a new disc out today.

    More atonal space rock is just what the world needs now, I reckon.

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  13. @andy:

    Well, the Army tried to go green and started issuing us with lead-free bullets but it didn't really catch on, they just kept bouncing off innocent women and kids.

    That's very good news about Sonic Youth, though. Saw them at (hmm) the Mean Fiddler(?) in the late 80s(?). I loved EVOL. They are a very fine band.

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  14. Swifty: I guess they’d have to dig all the shrapnel etc out of the bodies for recycling. Not a pleasant job I would imagine.

    I first saw SY on Brighton beach around the time of EVOL. Blew me away.

    Seen them many times since, though not for about ten years now, I guess. Too old for all that stage diving business now.

    See you in Rough Trade off Brick Lane this weekend for a copy of The Eternal.

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  15. @andy:

    If I don't see you there, I'll see you up at Record & Tape Exchange in Camden, I guess.

    PS It'll make you laugh, but the Army does have battlefield clearance specialists. They're not only skilled in dealing with unexploded ordnance and the other debris of war, they also DO recycle whatever militarily-useful hardware they come across. They often work quite closely with the Intelligence branch, unsurprisingly.

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  16. "And as far as I am concerned as feminism means 'someone who believes that men and women are equal '"

    Annetan, hasnt this term dated though at a very basic level? This is my gripe with it:

    There is an implicit assumption in the use of the term that this is not the dominant belief. But these days it is. It shouldnt need a label, what should need a label is people who dont believe in equality as they are in the vast minority.

    People differ wildly on what constitutes equality (and comparing apples and oranges is never that easy), but I dont think very many people at all actually contest the idea that men and women should have equal rights (equal responsibilities seems another kettle of fish altogether, sadly, think Corston).

    We dont bother with labels for people who believe in black equality, for example. Or people who believe in the rule of law. Or the tenets of democracy. Or the merits of modern medicine over traditional alternatives. We instead have labels for people who dont believe in these things. We talk of flat-earthers, not round earthers. Autocrats, not democrats.

    The label feminism was born in a time when majority view was against equality. It has heavily swung the other way but the term hasnt changed. Thats why to me, and i suspect a lot of other people of my generation, the term is largely meaningless in the pure sense of "equal rights" and so instead refers to the sort of "feminism" which gets pushed in the media and government - the sort that is frequently absolutely nothing to do with equality.

    Trying to remove each and every negative in life that disproportionately effects women is not in itself about equality. Equality implies some semblance of balance between the sexes. This has been achieved in law. In practice things are slightly different, yet nowhere in feminist discourse is there an attempt to examine the structural disadvantages men face - so in what sense can they be said to be aiming for an equality between the two?

    Seems to me having largely achieved its initial intention, feminism as a movement has moved on to seeking to remove every possible disadvantage for women, stamp down on every advantage men have, and any notion of parity has become redunant. It is now, in practice, simply a special interest group - a body that lobbies to continually improve the lot of women through whatever means necessary.

    But that said, i can fully understand why older folk would still use the term and label themselves such, as they experienced the movement when equality wasnt the dominant view and it was all still to fight for. So having fought hard for something, i can imagine you would feel the label pretty closely to your heart.

    But that is in a (lengthy) nutshell why the movement as it is today grates me but i am still a big fan of plenty of posters on CIF who label themselves "feminist" (like all our UT fems for example, and Sarka etc).

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  17. @jay:

    I can't speak as an expert on "feminism" (Graun-style), I just like women and men with good old-fashioned practical common sense and the decency to get along.

    The world is far from perfect for ANY of us.

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  18. Incidentally...

    Scotland Yard: “Highly unlikely any MP could be successfully prosecuted for fraud”.

    Discuss.

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  19. "I can't speak as an expert on "feminism" (Graun-style), I just like women and men with good old-fashioned practical common sense and the decency to get along."

    I agree, Swifty, and i think a lot of the fems on CiF fit that bill perfectly (and obviously our UT fems), its just those that move away from common sense and a desire to get along that bug me, the BiBuBiBus of this world.


    "Scotland Yard: “Highly unlikely any MP could be successfully prosecuted for fraud”."

    Absolute disgrace.

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  20. "I just like women and men with good old-fashioned practical common sense and the decency to get along."

    I think that also applies to the identity industry as a whole, some are interested in getting along, some prefer division, particularly if they can make a few bob from it selling shite articles about mothers days cards.

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  21. Jay: I think there may, as you suggest, be a generational thing there.

    You’re in your late twenties I believe; I’m 43.
    When I was growing up, feminism was not exactly universal. My mum instilled in me or indoctrinated me with the idea of gender equality, including making sure I could take responsibility for my own personal care.

    My daughter, who’s 13, takes the idea of gender equality totally for granted, as I think I’ve mentioned on CiF.

    My dad’s generation (at least some of them anyway), on the other hand, still have a remnant of what my mum used to call Male Chauvinist Piggery in them.

    My dad is a staunch socialist and believer in equality, but he still expects his wife (no longer my mum) to do more than him in the way of household chores etc. I suspect he doesn’t even think about it and, as far as I’m aware, she doesn’t challenge him on it.

    There are still plenty of men like that about. They’re not bad people, their ideas and behaviour were just formed in different times.

    Eventually, I hope and believe, gender equality will be as common place as the belief that the world is round, but we’re not quite there yet.

    “make a few bob selling shite articles about Mother’s Day cards”

    Surely NO ONE would dream of such a thing?

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  22. The irony is, this divisiveness is born of a desire for inclusiveness.

    It's the law of unintended consequences, as usual.

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  23. All right Swifty, you stick to your irony, and let your missus do the ironing.

    You’re both probably best at what you know.

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  24. Andy - yeah i think the generation thing is quite major, for people of my age even to have a debate on whether or not there should be sexual equality would be completely unthinkable, we went through secondary school 1995-2000 - the debate was over, girls were outperforming us in school, most teachers female, all did the same classes, it was just a complete non issue, not even worthy of debate. And our parents were of the 60's/70's generation.

    So maybe thats why the whole thing seems so odd to me, this ridiculous gender war still being fought (by one side only) day after day in the major left wing newspaper.


    "The irony is, this divisiveness is born of a desire for inclusiveness."

    The road to hell...

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  25. Interesting discussion. I've called myself a feminist ever since reading "Female Eunuch" but basically agree with Jay's comment at 12.32. I was largely responsible for being "house father" to my sprogs (they used to call me mum) and we have a very good relationship as a result. But it is depressing how many men still regard their woman as a chattel/sex slave.

    And the statement from Scotland Yard is UTTERLY disgraceful but somehow unsurprising...

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  26. "And the statement from Scotland Yard is UTTERLY disgraceful but somehow unsurprising..."

    I wrote to my MP, Nick Raynsford, about this. He responded in a letter saying that investigations and prosecutions "wouldnt be in the public interest."

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  27. I'd rather die than call myself a feminist. Or any other 'ist' for that matter. I hope I treat women as my equals, although my laziness makes it difficult for me to do my fair share of domestic work. Anyway, who decides how much of it is necessary?

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  28. Very optimistic about Obama's speech in Cairo- the first time I've conceded that he might actually do something useful as POTUS. US/Arab relations have been pure poison since 911 and Iraq/Afghanistan invasion and he's to be applauded for standing up to Israel.
    Makes a change from his disastrous handling of the US financial crisis, dontcha think?

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  29. “Wouldn’t be in the public interest”

    Wasn’t that Lord Denning’s (?) point about the Birmingham Six?

    It would do so much damage for the full truth about what happened to come out, that it would be better if it never did.

    Remind you of anything, Dan?

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  30. martillo: in my experience, any woman you live with, or invite into your living space on anything like a regular basis will be happy to decide.

    I suspect they are just better at noticing dirt and mess than us, as they are at so many other things. Having said that, I’m learning to multi-task.

    I’ve just cooked and eaten a meal whilst contributing to two separate blogs and reading what’s on a third. Don’t think I’ll bother with the washing up for a couple of days though.

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  31. Why, martillo? It shouldn't be necessary, I agree... No "ists" at all, then? Not socialist, masochist, pessimist, recidivist...?

    But I agree about the housework- I admit I'm lazy too and do the bare minimum. (hangs head in shame)

    "wouldnt be in the public interest." God, that phrase covers a multitude of sins! But again, are we surprised?

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  32. Do you mean 911, by any chance, Andy?

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  33. Funny thing about MrsSB - she loves seeing washing hanging out on the line on a sunny day. And she doesn't trust anyone to do the ironing as well as she does.

    Now, she's very far from being yer actual stereotypical Hausfrau, and I'm neat and tidy myself, but I can't get fussed up about washing hanging out.

    Vive la différence, I guess.

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  34. "but I can't get fussed up about washing hanging out."

    Not even if it was really neatly hung in a warm spring breeze? Really?

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  35. Dan: 9-11? 9 bloody 11?

    That’s just like you bloody troofers, bringing up 9-11 at the least opportunity, ramming your crazy theories down our throats ;-)

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  36. Well Dan, I've come to the conclusion that those isms are beginning to crush the human spirit and that a lot debate these days is about who has the right to claim membership. I've decided to enjoy life and treat others as decently as I can, without calling myself anything.

    You're right about a woman's eye for disorder, andy. Anyway, why fight destiny?

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  37. Despite everything that's occurred nationally, the wierdest piece of news I've seen this last week is Montana's about Rockwell at the summit of the page.

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  38. martillo: Calamity Jane!

    I’ve never been a big fan of musicals, but that one and On The Town were my favourites when I was a kid.

    Right, now to watch “The Deadwood Stage” and “I Can Do Without You”.

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  39. I am now singing "The Deadwood Stage" thank you.
    A mate of mine fancied Doris Day in the sixth form (clarification: she didn't go to our school).

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  40. Yes, Andy, I was going to ask martillo what his partner's opinion was on the subject. Your comment is spot on. Me and my old lady often exchange fairly strongly worded opinions on the matter. I'm afraid I've got into the habit of asking if she knows where something is even before I've properly looked AND SHE USUALLY KNOWS which really pisses her off. There, I bet there'll be resonances from THAT...

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  41. My Italian server's playing silly buggers- probably nipped out for a cappucino- and keeps throwing my carefully crafted responses away.

    Quite right, Andy, I'll keep shtum about YOU KNOW WHAT in case I upset monkeyfish- don't want to waken the kraken from his slumbers...

    What about "Guys and Dolls"? That's a good one. And I used to be word perfect on "The Boyfriend"

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  42. Dan: I don’t live with my girlfriend, but she’s left me in no doubt about her opinions on my housework skills. Last Christmas, she bought me a mop (not just a mop). I played along and asked if it came with instructions...

    My daughter is also not above making critical comments when she comes to stay.

    Jay: You’re showing your (lack of) age again, mate.

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  43. Bizarrely, my old CO was a musicals man. He could often be heard whistling tunes from, say, Seven Brides for Seven Brothers ("Howard Keel, good man"). He once tried to convince me and a brother officer (over the much-detested whisky) that Les Mis was "art".

    He was a bit of a wanker, though.

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  44. That’s OK, Dan. I just can’t help being a tease.

    Swifty: I doubt the musical would qualify as “art” in my book, high brow elitist (there’s that ist again) snob that I am, but the original book, by some French geezer called Hugh something-or-other is a right page turner.

    Anyway, I’ve just noticed the time, so I’d better get back to my Sustainable Development.

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  45. @andy:

    Hugh Bonneville wrote the book? Blimey, you live and learn, I didn't even know there WAS a book.

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  46. Yeah, but Brown's going to hang on for as long as he can. Somebody stamp on his fingers...

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  47. @DanP:

    It *is* astonishing that hubris seems to be preventing him from recognising that knock on the door as nemesis calling.

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  48. Hubris is right. He must see that the longer he stays the worse it'll be for him. What a prat.

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  49. I'm going to be bold here (couple of pints of Aspalls at lunchtime helps).

    Brown gone by Monday evening.

    Thoughts?

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  50. Never mind Brown, what about Clegg? Surely they ought to have done better than this?

    Brown could be gone by Mon. When are the Euros results out? On balance, I think he'll last longer.

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  51. Personally, I'm rather enjoying the car crash and desperation, I think if he can squeeze another week out we might see Fern Britton installed as Home Secretary or somesuch.

    Plenty more craziness to come if Brown hangs in there.....

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  52. @Fencewalker:

    Euro results Sunday night. Hence my Monday prediction.

    Good point about Cleggy. Apart from Brizzle, the Tories are sweeping the board.

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  53. And now Brown's called a news conference at 4.30.

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  54. I can't seem him going of his own will on Monday. And I can't see the overtly loyal cabinet suddenly resiling en masse Monday morning.
    At first I was thinking that the Tory lead over Labour wasn't such as the amount to a landslide, especially since a lot of left leaning types might go LibDem come the main election...but the way the LibDems have done it might not matter.
    Good thing seems to be that there's not much sign of the predicted BNP/UKIP breakthroughs, so far as I can see. Maybe all the CiF articles worked (*cough*).

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  55. God he can hardly go today, can he? Halfway through a reshuffle? It'd be typically bad organisation: wait until everyone says you're the right man and I'm not and then pull the rug out.

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  56. @Fencewalker:

    Nah, probably just a news conf to present the results of his "reshuffle".

    Strange days these, though, you never know...

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  57. If I were to find Mad King Ludwig of Bavaria in charge of the DCMS by teatime I'd not be shocked.

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  58. Les Miserables is a fantastic book. Well worth reading.

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  59. #I'd rather die than call myself a feminist. Or any other 'ist'#

    Whoa there matey. Doesn't pay to generalise. Think you mean you don't ascribe to any 'isms', plenty of ists play well with me.

    I'm totally cool with socialist, controversialist, satirist, piss artist and the odd one of the wrist.


    It's fascists, theists and Guardian columnists who give 'ists' a bad name. But the worst 'ist' of the lot is waking up on a sunny morning to find the wife have left a 'to do' list. One mention of a hoover and I'm back in bed with man flu.

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  60. A crowbar, that’s what he’ll have to be prised out of 10 Downing Street with. Or do I mean a jemmy?

    Anyway, Brown’s read about your bet, Swifty, and it’s just made him all the more determined to hang on.

    Don’t mention hubris, as far as he knows that’s the funny beige stuff Sarah brings him from the continental delicatessen to put on bread when she can’t be bothered to cook him a proper meal.

    He doesn’t have the self awareness to realise it might be time for him to pack it in.

    Remember, he’s all about “courage”.

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  61. Becket's stepping down now too!

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  62. In a huff...typical w[sorry, that's just to wind up Bunting].
    Is that Dennis McShane telling us to calm down? Apparently we've all gone silly because of the heat. What a prick.

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  63. Hm, think the Sustainable Development assignment’s out the window for this afternoon.

    Roll on 4.30.

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  64. Anyone wanna play "guess the dogwhistle"? What phrases included in his speech?
    I'm guessing:
    "getting on with the job"
    "politics with a purpose"
    "progressive with a purpose"
    "if you don't vote Labour a fairy will die"
    "hard working families...Westminster village" (vel sim)
    "here is the spinal column of Hazel Blears"
    "learn the lesson"
    "vision"

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  65. If they are going to do him in, presumably they’ll wait until the Euro results are in? So that would be Monday.

    It hardly seems worth making any statements before that. Any cabinet he announces before that might be blown out of the water in a few days.

    Unless he’s trying to tie the hands of potential challengers.

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  66. @Fencewalker:

    "hard working families"
    "Presbyterian"
    "the values of the party I have devoted my life too"
    "social justice"

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  67. James Langdale's just called Peter Hain a "re-entry". That would explain the skin tone..

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  68. Good ones SB.
    What about:
    "courage"
    "convictions"

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  69. The euros will have to be very poor to force him out, the cabinet are too cowardly and most have come out on his side. But some shocking euros combined with the local massacres they're getting, Hoon and Becket also down, well, could be on the cards.

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  70. @Fencewalker:

    "won't be deflected from my main purpose, getting Britain through the recession"
    "I believe in the fairness of the British people"
    "now is not the time..."

    etc etc

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  71. And now McNulty's leaving the government. No loss to the party that, to be honest.

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  72. Swifty, you've excelled yourself. Possible also some reference to avoiding chaos (though that's wearing thin, given that the current situation seems to define "chaos" in any dictionary).
    Appalling thing is I have to go and fetch the bairns, so I might miss it.
    Late already though...wonder why? Are there suits screaming at him to go for fuck's sake. (?)

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  73. Swifty: I’m on The Guardian’s Live from the Press Conference blog.

    Nothing’s happening there yet.

    What are you watching?

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  74. McNulty's been mentioned on the Beeb too.

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  75. @andy:

    Sky News (at work). Nothing happening yet - give it 5 minutes.

    @fencewalker:

    I reckon he's not going to drop the bombshell, to be honest. The reshuffle news is still dripping out (Lord Adonis to Transport).

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  76. Gibson, Beckett, McNulty. And a by-election. Who's next? Swifty, your bet is looking a bit better.
    Speaker election - stick a couple of hundred of your winnings on Hermon.

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  77. Looking like a "everyone else's fault"

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  78. lesson learned = 1 point to me
    Ought to haave thought of "consultation"

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  79. OK, now there’s some action.

    Mandelson is now “First Secretary”, whatever that means.

    Brown's not going to go, is he?

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  80. Doesn't he see that this collection of soundbitery is exactly why he's as inspiring as a letter opener?

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  81. Chutzpah City

    "Talented people who will not shirk difficult decisions" arf!

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  82. Fuck. Missed "best person for the job".

    Bollocks. Better ring MrsSB, tell her to put that holiday on hold.

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  83. Get on with the job!!!

    I guess he fights on, he fights to win.

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  84. Double blether score for "getting on with the job"

    Did anyone see Adam Boulton go slightly postal on Sky last night over the World Financial Forum thing

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  85. Doesn’t look like you’ll be picking up your winnings tonight, Swifty.

    Mrs SB will have to wait a while for her new pink dress.

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  86. Three councils 'will report weekly'. 'We will outline in the coming weeks.' 'responsibilities', 'determination', 'character'. He's dead as a dormouse but 'I will not walk away'.
    What balls. Bye bye Gordon - your money is in the bank, swifty.

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  87. He seems to be trying to speak like Blair - the banter with Bolton, the "look, you know". Is it just me?

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  88. "I will not waver. I will not walk away. I will never surrender.”

    Ooh, PM is coming on now.

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  89. Come on, the press corp. Can someone not just stand up and ask "Prime Minister, you insist you're staying on. Are you fucking bonkers or something?"

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  90. Ainsworth is apparently 'very popular with the army'. Any comments, swifty?

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  91. He's just reshuffling the same statements into slightly different orders. Not. One. Idea.

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  92. Again, he's admitting mistakes have been made and he's accepting full responsibility.

    Err, no you're not old son.

    Damn, andy, I had the hay bail photoshoot all arranged and everything.

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  93. My Father....yeesh

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  94. @scherfers:

    http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=124940.html

    Hmm. Anyway, at least Caroline Flint's "quit the government".

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  95. Wasn't he the one that endorsed the Chinook crash verdict on C4 News? I've always associated him with weaseliness.

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  96. Did he actually know about Flint going? He sounds surprised.

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  97. I've got to catch my train now. Enjoy the party, I'll hope to catch up with you all later.

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  98. Another cabinet resignation - Paul Murphy.

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  99. I like the way he invents new constitutional principles while in the middle of a press conference. You can see fragments of him breaking off in the slipstream.

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  100. He's still not complacent or arrogant. Good to have that confirmed.

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  101. It now appears that Murphy didn't resign. Presumably he was sacked. What a monumental fuckup all round on everything.

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  102. Lord Mandelson, Lord Adonis, Lord Sugar, Lord Kinnock, that’s a lorra lorra lords in the cabinet, isn’t it? Have I missed any?

    Doesn’t Brown have any decent elected junior Ministers he can bring on?

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  103. "I've always associated him with weaseliness."

    Are there any Lab ministers that you wouldnt consider weasely?

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  104. True enough...bunch of mudbloods.

    Bob fucking Ainsworth, though.

    Surprised you're absent from the ongoing biscuit debate, Jay, where I've just traduced you hideously.

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  105. Oh and Flint's had a bash at Gordon, if you've missed it.

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  106. You've been busy Jay. Have a recommend.

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  107. Fencewalker

    Flint was on a Question Time that I was in the audience for a while back. She is a complete NuLab-otomised muppet.

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  108. Thank you Fencwalker, im a hard working Ciffer.

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  109. 'But the worst 'ist' of the lot is waking up on a sunny morning to find the wife have left a 'to do' list. One mention of a hoover and I'm back in bed with man flu.'
    GRRrrr...!

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  110. MonkeyFish...
    Not that I'm a grasser or anything...

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  111. *tweaks monkeyfish's ear very hard*

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  112. monkeyfish is a dadaist. No violence please.

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  113. You allow your missus to write you lists, Monkeyfish? You've only yourself to blame.

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  114. Another humdinger from Marina Hyde has just gone up. One of the few decent writers left on the 'new' Guardian.

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  115. @kiz:

    Grrr... maybe but it's true. I've got 12 things to do (so far) tomorrow while MrsSB is at work (bless her).

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  116. Scherfig - quite right about the Marina article; this bit had me chuckling out loud:
    #It was fashioned from materials including 80 bicycle wheels, a go-cart, a bathtub and a meteorological balloon – your basic MP's expenses list, really#

    Extraordinary how on Newsnight they're basically openly calling the Prime Minister a liar.

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  117. @Fencewalker:

    Adam Boulton on Sky just called him one as well. About Brown's claim during his reshuffle press conference "never to have been planning to replace Darling". Boulton's saying all the journos in Westminster were receiving Brown-sourced briefings that Darling was out, as late as 2 days ago.

    Then magnetic north flipped and he was suddenly Gordy's best mate again.

    Brown is a nasty piece of work, alright.

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  118. Haven't been able to access Cif all week; either loading but unable to access the comments, or just crashing my browser, so I haven't really been able to comment on what's been going on (mind you with the BTH + Ultima plot thickening, I'm not sure that this isn't a good thing), but it does look like everyone's been keeping busy.

    I did manage to fully access the Marina Hyde item, about 5 minutes ago, so maybe things are getting back to normal; good comment Kiz.

    I can't believe that they;re getting so desperate as to be dragging Livingston in to comtribute an ATH piece; doesn't he have others to do this, about once a month?

    Still think your in with a good chance on being able to retire early on your winnings Swifty.

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  119. Was I the only one who saw Bolton nearly blow last night? He said something like "Oh come on, I'm sick of hearing all this Gordon led the world financial meeting stuff..." A real change in levels of respect; almost like the TW3 thing with MacMillan.

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  120. If you win that bet swifty yr to put some of the winnings aside to buy me a drink or several come christmas time...

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  121. @Fencewalker:

    He can be a bit testy can Adam Boulton. I like him.

    @kiz:

    Glad to, but thought disgracy said you weren't over here at Chrimble?

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  122. martillo

    She writes lists. I look at lists. If lists involve power tools or fetching beer, I acknowledge lists. If lists contain the words hoover or windows I figure life's too short for lists.

    However, I would never try to infringe my missus's right to free expression by banning lists any more than I would deny my right to not notice, accidentally burn or misinterpret lists. I write her the odd list too. Nice lists which feature beer, "back late - don't wait up" or chips.

    Dustin Hoffman just told Jonathon Ross the secret of a successful marriage is "being shit-scared of your wife". I'd tend to go instead with a post-structuralist, relativistic interpretation of lists...real or metaphorical.

    Where've you been lately anyway?

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  123. Dog house music:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVaEPx_VyXs

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  124. Well,got in first comment on the D-Day thread.

    Like it BW.

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  125. You can run on for a long time...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxh-FfElY0M

    Nice comment GP01.

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  126. Nice one
    Nite

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