26 October 2010


Outside Venice - Joseph Pennell
I cannot say whether things will get better if we change; what I can say is they must change if they are to get better.
-Georg Christoph Lichtenberg


  1. Hank's back. Funny you mention CommanderKeen, i was wondering where he'd got to the other day - he was quality. I dont know if anyone remembers that brutal Paul Sagar thread, but CK dug out some cringing interview Sagar had done when he was a student and he was then savaged relentlessly for it by all and sundry. Funny thread, and almost all the regular old timers are on it, Pikey, Scherf, CK, Wheatie, Metatarsal, etc:


  2. And WinstonRed's gone. What a surprise.

  3. Morning all,

    Our 'brave' soldiers fighting in Iraq.

    After watching Dispatches last night and reading this this morning Blair, Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney should be in the dock.

  4. Some years ago, I bumped into an old friend from school and we had a short, clumsy chat. We had been through school together but afterwards, we went our separate ways and there seemed to be nothing really connecting us any more.

    He suggested we meet for a drink, I suggested we didn't and that was it.

    I no longer wish to return to CiF in any other way than I now do, which is short-lived, sporadic and fun.

    I do not want a persona, a character, a position or a blue sticker or to be a regular, hogging a favourite bar-stool and pretending that my constant presence implies some tacit ownership of the site or particular threads or affiliation with the management team.

    I see many of those who do want these things as embarrassing and quite repugnant in their creeping and toadying, their desperation for preferment, for approval and recognition and their apparent treadmill-mentality, where churning out anything, absolutely anything in order to be seen clearly consumes their waking lives.

    To be banned - my own was requested by me - or to leave is not some journey to Cyberia or any addition to life's manifold burdens.

    It is a type of freedom, an unleashing from the clutches of an addiction to one fairly miserable and mendacious site.

    Like drug or alcohol addictions, it does take an effort and there is a feeling of loss and a niggle in the back of your brain that it would be lovely to just shoot up again, just gulp unhindered from the bottle once more.

    Leni said something along the lines that when we feel a desperation, a need for something, we end up forgiving it everything and refusing to examine it critically, if at all.

    Penileplethysmograph said that CiF gives him an international platform, a stage from which to broadcast his views.

    I would suggest that if you divide the numbers of visitors by the number of articles and then wonder how many eyes see your comment and then how many remember it or think about it, both the audience and the influence are tiny.

    I see CiF as the enemy and I imagine that its readership and the number of people prepared to waste time contributing to it will decline, both as they see alternatives and as they see its weird ideological posturing and its attempts to draw succour from mutual masturbation with a few chosen, tame BTL bubbles.

    I suppose it is like trying to find things which were so hilarious, so uproariously funny that merely watching them necessitated paramedics on standby to deal with organs ruptured through uncontrollable laughter years ago remotely funny now.

    Or like the woman who worked for the vetting and rating agency way back at the beginning of the internet, whose job it was to watch pornography and grade the content.

    After a while, she said, you cease to be bothered or shocked or interested.

    Luckily, though, Natalie Hanman will soon be clearing the moderators of any wrongdoing and declare the site not only fit for purpose, but the best darn news comment site on God's green earth.


  5. Oh, a visitor from Belgium!

    Just a cup of coffee for me, thanks.

  6. Mmm ... soda farls!

    It's impossible to write a feminist treatise on soda farls as they are so delicious as to transcend gender.

  7. Interesting point AB, about influence - I have thought for a while the whole CiF game is about influencing through association rather than through debate.

    Which is pretty fucking sad when you think about it. Because precisely what is - and who are - being influenced ?

    The cohort !

    As the Tory Euro-fan Tristan Garel-Jones used to say "thank fuck it's only a game".

    Right. Coffee. Work.

  8. Atomboy

    Yep. That about sums it up. Natalie Hanman's posts about issues raised re: 'abuse' of above the line writers were so contradictory as to be ridiculous.

    CiF really has become a bit of a farce. Even if you see something interesting you'd like to comment on, it's like being dragged through a sea of treacle with some bastard standing on your chest, it's virtually impossible to have a reasonable 'debate' - the sheer volume of rabid nutjobs attacking from every angle makes it a tedious effort. I frequently think - 'what's the point'?


    Berry fuddy!

    Soda farls n scrambly eggs ..... mmmm... delish ;)

  9. AB - some good points there, I hardly every read CIf these days - its boring and as La Rit says reasoned debate is virtually impossible and whereas taking on the right wing fuckwits was fun for a while it rapidly became very boring.

    As for the blue badge of shame - which indicates we have taken their money !!!!! (although in such vanishingly small amounts it was hardly corrupting)- as its over a since I wrote for them its just an embarassing irrelevance - no more. At the time I suppose that I naively thought there might be some people who were prepared to listen to my pov. It doesn't look like that now.

    However I do sometimes wonder if we should allow the right wing fuckwits to spew their bile unopposed.. AS very many people just read those blogs without contributing, perhaps if we contribute they might be encouraged...

    Just a thought...

    BTW what the feck is this vaginas stuff? Have been out of touch and I'm sort of interested :)

  10. Doh!!!!'over a YEAR since I wrote for them'

  11. EnglishHalfwit is apparently asking CiF to change his name to:


    The bit between the lines is a quote from JayReilly which the Halfwit then tries to pretend is a good example of popping over to CiF occasionally to post.

    Because posting and pressing the report abuse button are the same for EnglishHalfwit. Spill your brainz and then ask the moderators to delete anyone who spots you are an imbecile and mentions it.

    Still, some good may come of it. Apparently Natalie Hanman is setting up an online kindergarten for people like EnglishHermit who cannot understand simple English or string two thoughts together.

    Apparently, the uptake so far is quite phenomenal amongst the CiF core demographic.

    26 October 2010 9:47AM


    There is probably a small army of "abuse reporters" out there, people who cant stand seeing their beliefs ridiculed or shown up and who genuinely think it is "offensive" that anyone is daring to do so. All too often, the mods are clearly deleting comments because these people are requesting it.

    There's an even smaller army, microscopic in name and deed, that considers it fun.

    From the Untrusted site this morning.

    I no longer wish to return to CiF in any other way than I now do, which is short-lived, sporadic and fun.

    No further comment.

  12. 'ullo all, bin afk for a bit, can't be arsed crawling back, any fireworks? Last few days of browseing at work : (

    Have interview week today...

    Group interview, for super mkt deputy mgr...

    OOh the other thing I wished to consult the hive mind over..

    I've been asked to find out contact details/agent details for Antony Gormley, nothing obvious from a quick google...
    Haven't done that before, thots? Do they want someone who takes charge of the group, or who ballances that with toeing the corp. line?

    Well all good exp if nowt else...

  13. Grr, shuffle the above until it makes some sort of sense...

  14. annetan42

    However I do sometimes wonder if we should allow the right wing fuckwits to spew their bile unopposed..

    Yes, apart from the fact that bringing this confrontational, gladiatorial L v R nonsense to CiF was Seaton's considered plan, along with the ideological deletion of reasonable, considered views and the promotion of those which he thought would generate comments and clicks.

    Obviously, Hanman is a chip off the old block and intends to continue in like manner.

    The point comes when any input simply feeds and perpetuates the monster, so I really now wonder whether I shall ever go back.

    Apart from that, the place is now mind-crunchingly boring and incredibly predictable.

    I think it is better left to the WADDYA pals now.

    After all, their incessant brown-nosing should draw some reward and they seem to have no other purpose or function in life.

    EnglishHermit and SpecialBrut each had little hissy-fits on WADDYA and said they would venture just beyond the playground gate, still in sight and clinging to the fence, but with faces bright red with justified huffiness at their treatment.

    They went unnoticed and returned unseen.

    They showed their desperation to belong was far greater than anyone could reasonably expect.

    "I wouldn't mind being a pawn, if only I might join," said Alice.

    I shall leave them to their play and just pop over and watch occasionally, as you might check on a tea-party for children with learning difficulties, just to make sure they are not choking on worms or forgetting to breathe or something.

    Poor little mites.

    PS Forgot exactly what the vagina thing is about - something quoted a few days ago.

  15. turminderxuss

    Haven't done that before, thots? Do they want someone who takes charge of the group, or who ballances that with toeing the corp. line?

    Their internal name for the job is probably Kapo, if that gives you a clue.

    Good luck, though. I hope you get it, but you may have to, er, lie a bit to do so.

    Anyway, must get on for a bit at least.

    I shall be figuratively blowing floaty pink kisses to those on WADDYA and giving little licks to those on the badlands of CiF beyond.

  16. Aye AB, economy of veracity a must.

    Int: Why do you want this job?

    Me: So I can blow all my disposable income on ganja.

    Int: Thanx, we'll be in touch...

  17. turminderxuss

    Yes, it reminds me of a sign seen stuck inside the window of a bank. It said something like:

    The people asking you for money will probably spend it on drink and drugs

    I think it was meant to scatter anyone thinking of begging for change outside the illustrious banking institutions, without resorting to water-cannon or teargas.

    My thought was:

    What do you think your employees do with their wages?


    I would prefer it if you did not use the quote from EnglishHalfwit above over on the CiF moderation thread.

    It is clearly aimed at me personally, not The Untrusted generally:

    There's an even smaller army, microscopic in name and deed, that considers it fun.


    Oh, how we all lau...wished Halfwit had the other bits of his brain in working order to actually be able to say something funny.

    Anyway, I have never actually said anything against you, which should not be construed as implying approval or otherwise - I have no opinion - so I would prefer not to get tangled up in this byzantine battle without, at least, a formal invitation.

  18. Hmm, a morning's wee google and I'm not sure if I want to go to the interview... But I could always just do 5 months then come back to this job...

    Anyone got anecdotes about working for Lidl? I've read the wiki and a Graun article from 2007... Managers have to agree to sign a waiver from working time directives?!?

  19. Turm

    having spoken to a 'trainee manager' - who usually does 'till duty' I know she works regularly from 8 to 8.

    She is working there as a stop gap as no other jobs available.

  20. turminderxuss

    I have been into Lidl once because they were still doing the old Jordan's muesli which the other shops had changed to the new variety - less nut, seed and fruit content, more oats and wheatflakes, reduced packet size and increased price. (No doubt you will not be asked about this, but I suggest "profiteering bastards" would not be the expected response if you are).

    Anyway, the staff seemed to have a lovely mixed attitude, which went from an uninterested shrug to an implied whatever, without bothering to cover any of the ground between.

    A refreshing change from the corporate lie-speak of Tesco and the rest. More relaxed and, basically, how you want to be treated.

    Also, a nice absence of the fucking Prince Big Ears fucking Duchy Originals fucking milk, which is the only full-octane organic variety now stocked in Waitrose.

    If I wanted to line that grasping, benefits cheating shitbag's pockets, I would pop over and squeeze some change into his outstretched hand.

  21. Meanwhile, on the moderation thread:

    26 October 2010 1:49PM

    Hello, if anyone is reading. I asked a question on the Waddya thread about how it is that some postings get a massive amount of recommends in nanoseconds. Today's example is the comment by monstera on the Daniel Ellsberg article. It's a genuine question. How does it occur? thanks

    26 October 2010 2:11PM

    goto - your guess is as good as ours on this one. But, er, some people have been known to recommend thenselves using different log ins. That, or their posts are really good!

    Just up the page, I have given this comment 300 recommends:

    26 October 2010 1:38PM

    CiF moderation appears to have no guiding principles. Perfectly reasonable comments are removed. Yet foul language usually let go. It appears to be personally or politically based. Some views even reasonably expressed are not permitted presumably. This is shaming and damming of any site. While this is a privately owned site, unlike the BBC (supposed to be unbiased but fails a bit), so able to be biased, it makes it look bad.

    Would it not be better to be honest and say the Guardian is biased over Israel, immigration etc. Or whatever the issues are, where comments reasonably expressed will still be deleted because we don't like them. Because that seems to be the facts. As you head the section, comment is free, but facts are sacred.

    Seems facts are hidden or denied, and comment not very free because of them.


    If anyone wants to play, I'll tell you how.

  22. Think it's looking like a job of last resort... But I'll let you all know how it goes. I'm just loathe to repeat the experience of a couple of years ago, where with early morning taxis and a night stay over in Embra an interview ended up costing me over £100 quid... I won't see much change from that for this one, and frankly if they are a bunch of shit bags, I'd be better off putting the ton towards the winter leccy...

  23. turminderxuss

    Don't get me wrong. A job is a job. I cannot imagine anyone thinking that a big company has any interest beyond making money, so there is nothing to choose, one from another.

    Not everything I said was flippant. They do seem to be more like real people than the poor sods in Tesco, but it has to be said that many people obviously like working for corporate behemoths.


    26 October 2010 2:39PM


    The poster you refer to was already banned. According to a statement he made this very morning it was he who requested it. So not me guv - honest.

    The reason that I continue to report him to the moderators is that, despite the ban, he returns with a new login making comments that are full of personal abuse. This is fun to him as he freely admits.


    No, EnglishHalfwit, I never actually go in for the personal abuse on CiF. I just go there to post comments.

    However, since you showed the level at which your reasoning operates when you claimed on WADDYA that everyone who made comments you didn't like was GIYUS, even when your mates there kept telling you that, surprise, surprise, it was not GIYUS, it might be better not to keep highlighting the fact that you seem unable to keep up with even the slow ones in the class.

    Dagga, dagga, dagga, eh?

    Pity you keep shooting yourself in the foot, isn't it?

  24. Turminder

    Have you looked at the possibility of a job related to the 2011 Census.Dunno who you'd need to contact although the Electoral Register Dept at your local Council might be able to point you in the right direction.Hope you soon find something.


    Good posts from you here and elsewhere.Dunno if you noticed but Sprouts also referred to us all as being foul-mouthed on the Cif moderation thread.Cheeky mare!Was tempted to press the abuse button :-)

    @If anyone's interested Cherie Blair has been caught selling her husbands signature for a tenner on e-bay.

  25. Cherie Blair has been caught selling her husbands signature for a tenner on e-bay

    Seriously?! Ha ha!

    Sprouts has also voiced her support for cuts on the Montgomerie thread. Much more heinous than desperate attempts to provoke a response over here.

  26. Thanx Paul, I'll see if anythings about, census-wise, hope you are well : )

    Re Cherie, ffs, Mamon, front & centre.

  27. "If anyone wants to play, I'll tell you how."

    Atomboy, good work in identifying that the views of some posters may not be as popular as they appear on CiF. Much respect to you.

    I'll give playing it a miss, but thanks for the offer.

  28. *snort* EnglishKermit is (still) convinced Giyus is behind it.

  29. Turminder, do what you have to do, mate. I only ever used employers more than they used me - once I had discovered what shits they were. (Multinationals only, of course.)

  30. ...Brusselsexpats wants to be an Avenging Angel... avenging what, the darker side of me is curious to know... but not curious enough to actually ask...

  31. With you on that Habib ; )

    Let's all do throw away log-ins and post, 'No I'M Giyus!'

  32. I'm GIYUS and so's my wife!

  33. Has anyone had a look at the blog of the bloke who outed himself of Cif, enemies of reason?

    It's pretty good, he had a brilliant drinking game for the spending review that would have made the whole day more bearable but best of all is a photo of David Miliband being scared of confetti.

    I am going to have it as my screensaver so I can have a good laugh whenever I feel down.

  34. Just doing the two hour comedy bus journey home.. Last shift here Sunday, what a great job this is, just a shame about the winter...

    L8rs all. p x

  35. afternoon all

    More musings from Jo Bageant

    Algorithms and Red Wine

    ...anecdotal evidence is not allowed in the new digital corpocracy. As one poster on Democratic Underground put it, “Anecdotal now has this enforced meaning such that no one is supposed to believe what they experience, what they see, hear, taste, smell, etc. The Powers That Be have basically extinguished the notion of inductive reasoning. Everything has to be replicated in a laboratory and since 90% of all the labs in this nation are operated by Corporate Sponsored monies, not much truth comes out of them.”

  36. @Sheff

    I have to disagree with that, strongly. The Internet has democratised anecdote, so that any bozo who has a friend of a friend who met someone who worked for Big Pharma has a free worldwide soapbox to tell his story and hook up with other bozos to create a campaign.

    Evidence? Can't trust it, it comes from The Man. Trust your heart, Luke.

  37. @sheffpixie

    Anecdotal now has this enforced meaning such that no one is supposed to believe what they experience, what they see, hear, taste, smell, etc.ponsored monies, not much truth comes out of them.

    That's interesting.

    The problem with anecdotal evidence is that you can have a true anecdote to support just about any position you can think of - it all happens in reality, benefit scrounging, pensioners freezing, bogus asylum seeking, anything. If you formulate opinions about society in general based on what you see day to day then you will probably miss the bigger picture - most of us move on known routes within a few-mile-radius every day, so your opinions can be skewed by the dominant reality on your patch, whether that's poverty, crime or outrageous wealth.

    But statistical evidence - even if it is skewed by the interests of whoever sponsors it - still reveals a wider and more significant truth about a society, and so I'd say that it will always be more useful than anecdotal stuff to try to get at the reality of something.

  38. @Atomboy

    have those of us here who have an issue with moderation seriously squeezed everyone else out of that thread and taken it over under various established names from CiF?

    No. My point was that it’s only a small handful of people who make it some sort of crusade to harp endlessly about Cif moderation, others just have a one-off moan about a post getting wiped.

    There’s an unattractive, sanctimonious feel about the whole moderation thing - in your post, you say that those who don’t feel the same as you are ‘abasing’ themselves to slug level. That’s compared to the towering figure carved from pure integrity that you represent, presumably?

    And what is the cast-iron principle that distinguishes you from the slavering, debased masses? You won’t accept that a free-to-use blog site may delete some of the stuff you - unprompted - choose to post there. So you, erm, refuse to accept it, and you keep going back there.

  39. "statistical evidence - even if it is skewed by the interests of whoever sponsors it - still reveals a wider and more significant truth about a society"

    No it doesn't. It just interprets "findings" from a small sub-section, in the way that the researcher wants to.

    Anecdotal evidence is equally untrustworthy.

    But what we can all see is the fucking obvious.

  40. Ivo

    Statistical truth can also submerge and cover up the reality for many in that society - if on average pensioners are warm and cosy how do we bring to general notice those who are freezing to death ?

  41. "My point was that it’s only a small handful of people who make it some sort of crusade to harp endlessly about Cif moderation"

    Oh, I see your motivation, now.

  42. Here's a little anecdotal evidence.

    There is NO WAY IN HELL that any public sector employees could be in any way more fucking obstructive in a box-ticking jobsworthiness kind of stupid, bollixed-up, patronising and unresponsive way than some of my private sector colleagues. Fucking twats.

  43. Statistical truth can also submerge and cover up the reality for many in that society

    I agree, although I suppose stats about numbers of pensioners that freeze to death could be pretty persuasive. But I accept that there's a place for anecdote, I'd just be wary of forming general opinions on that basis.

  44. "What's my motivation?"

    Feel the emotion, Vizzo, believe you are a twat and you will be one, Come on! Take two... and... action!

  45. heyhabib, I don't come here very often so I can't really work out whether you always act like this or just when I visit. Something bothering you?

  46. Vizzio
    "My point was that it’s only a small handful of people who make it some sort of crusade to harp endlessly about Cif moderation"

    Well, even assuming that depiction is accurate (it isn't) they had something to say, got modded, premoderation banned for their efforts, without any real dialogue or engagement from the people making those decisions - while the editorial stabnce is that we have precisely that dialogue.

    What's up ? Haven't you been noticed ? Is that why you're here today ?

  47. Bitterweed,

    Fair enough - even if every criticism of Cif moderation is valid, in the general scheme of things it seems like a completely insignificant issue to get so worked up about. And I doubt (but I don't know) if anyone got banned for 'having something to say', more likely for saying it in an obnoxious way.

  48. "I don't come here very often so I can't really work out whether you always act like this or just when I visit."

    I really don't remember you, but if you posted on here previously to attack anyone, rather than post a thought, an idea, a laugh even, then I might have laughed at you before.

  49. So if you don't know me why the antagonistic tone?

  50. Viz
    Well this is where you are plain ignorant me old chum.

    Cases in point would be plethora of witless ATL contributions over the years - I presume you have been posting long enough to remember Bidisha's 2007/2008 efforts, Martin Jacques, Harry Phibbs, Soumaya Ghanoush, I could go on.

    Many, many well written fiskings of ATL drek got deleted, nary a curse word to be seen - the moderation, frankly just seemed overprotective.

    Many different posters complained about the iniquity displayed.

    Perhaps all this passed you by; indeed it looks like there's there is a good chance of this when you add blithely "in the general scheme of things it seems like a completely insignificant issue to get so worked up about."

    Well fair enough, but by infernece - your reactions above - matter even less. In fact I don't even know why you've hopped over here if it's all so underwhelming and laughable. I hope you don't mind if I repay the gesture and offer you very little attention from now on.

    Cheerio !

  51. "So if you don't know me why the antagonistic tone?"

    Every action, matey has an opposite and equal reaction. You attacked, I laughed.

  52. I to the Vizzo

    I am now busy and in and out, so this might get disjointed.

    No. My point was that it’s only a small handful of people who make it some sort of crusade to harp endlessly about Cif moderation, others just have a one-off moan about a post getting wiped.

    If that's what you meant, that is what you should have said. The thread tends to show that, even if few people comment about it regularly, moderation is a big issue for a lot of people.

    The bit about slugs or whatever was probably poetic licence.

    I meant there are plenty of people who will brown-nose and arse-lick in order to get an article gig that they will happily turn a blind eye to people getting moderated, as long as it is never them.

    And I doubt (but I don't know) if anyone got banned for 'having something to say', more likely for saying it in an obnoxious way.

    Yeah, I think we all get the "We like people to be nice to us and show us a proper level of respect" shit.

    It is not the ideas which are the problem, it is what who thinks of whom and who might be hiding under some implausible disguise.

    Apparently, it's always GIYUS in the wonderful Where's Wally World of WADDYA.

    Anyway, have to go out again now but I should, perhaps, let you know that I really don't give a monkey's what you think.

  53. I to the Vizzo,

    But before getting worked up about the issues that *do* matter, isn't it a good idea to first try and ensure that the goalposts are fixed and secure, that the other team's not bought the referee, and that there's not dog shit all over the pitch....??

  54. So no clue on Antony Gormley's agent then? I only read the first third of the moderation thread, is there much, any, point finishing it?

    Oh Allah, the blessed, the merciful, please don't make me work in Lidl!

  55. Turm - who is Antony Gormley? (Or is that the point of the exercise?)

    Sorry, too lazy to Google.

    Best of luck in finding non-Lidl employment.

  56. OK, done a Google (Angel of the North!) and found this:

    The artist is represented by Xavier Hufkens gallery, Brussels.

    Does that help?

    Somewhere on this site.

  57. Or you can go here and register to find his representative for free, apparently!

  58. "Oh Allah, the blessed, the merciful, please don't make me work in Lidl!"

    Unlucky, Turminder bai! There is no God but God does like to have a chuckle at us. Here's a song that I sang through many bad jobs.

  59. I hope he hears your prayer Turm....!! Not a happy prospect. At least its not a sanitary towel factory, in which I once worked and where I proved my everlasting uselessness when it comes to STs zooming at speed down a conveyer belt.

    Thaum - you don't know who Anthony Gormley is?? He is responsible for the Angel of the North - a great sculpture situated in a spot that gives working class people who live close by the very best views of it.

  60. Sheffpixie
    Like his other stuff but hate that. Looks like a great steel plank strapped in mockery to the back of an innocent.

    I mean, it's hardly going to fly is it ?

    Is it supposed to represent womething good ??

  61. Thanx Thaum, that link seems to be for an exhibition in Belgium some time ago..

    Roy Orbison, you dark horse Habib! ; ) Canna thole him meself, but hey.

    this, would be my equivalent... A song about a shit job! ; )

  62. "something" even... stupid fingers..

  63. Thanks Sheff, I have in fact heard of the Angel of the North but didnae recognise the artist's name! (Shame on me ... should really Google before displaying my ignorance sometimes.)

    Turm - props for using the lovely word 'thole' - have you tried the second link?

  64. Gormley's always struck me as a bit of an egotist (like all yba's?) all the monumental figures are based on his body, did like the room full of wee clay guys tho..

  65. Hey thanx Thaum, I'll look at that tmra!

  66. turminderxuss
    The room full of clay people was hilarious - saw it at the Tate in Cornwall. Came a round a corner and there was a fucking great crowd of wide eyed Morphs gaping at me - it was like being on stage at woodstock, lol !!!

  67. Yeah BW, same at the Dean in Embra, I imagined they were aliens, 'take us to your leader...'

    away for some tv. L8rs all ; )

  68. I miss seeing the Angel of the North.

    Turminder, that last song reminded me of bad cassette recordings in the 80s. Loved it.

    I had this song in my head all of last week, had just about gotten rid of it until Radcliffe and Maconie played it last night.

    The Sundays

  69. BB here, still with an eye on work, ffs. Working at home tomorrow though so a nice lie-in and a cooked breakfast as a reward for my diligence and assiduousness. :o)

    Angel of the North

    Also known locally as The Flasher, or so I am led to believe.

    Turm - think of working in Lidl as a way of expiating bad karma so that in the next lifetime you will get a job in Waitrose instead. ;o)

    I have done some really shite jobs in my time. One involved putting a number into a computer screen, bringing up a file, putting a tick in a box, saving and closing. About 150 times a shift.

    I used the time to meditate on why it was I needed to do really well in my exams...

    Just trawling (trolling?) through the Mod thread. Seriously hilarious post from Manuphage the Archivist. I wonder if I should post the one from his "mum" after all his deletions on the Ciffies thread that, I suspect, was part of the build-up to him being banned eventually?

  70. habib/turm if you want a Roy Orbison song about the misery of workin', this is the one:

    california blue

    And I know that it's a bit early for Xmas, but all you atheist scum here should watch this inspirational video. If you're not true believers after these 7 very long minutes, then you're all going to hell. And good riddance.

    nativity story

    PS. Check out Nick's descriptive hand movements - the little tiny baby Jesus appears to be about 3ft long and the huge angel in the sky is correspondingly about 1ft 4ins.

    PPS. The cat seems to be heavily sedated.

  71. If we are going to talk about 80s music on worn out cassettes, I have to post some David Sylvian

    I denuinely did wear this cassette out - twice. Some will say that this is the broken version of it... :p

    Haven't listened to it for year. Amazon beckons...

  72. "denuinely"?!

    I am talking like Milipede Minor now!

  73. I really love Gormleys work. Have you seen his fields - he's the only artist I know of who brings in local communities and gets them involved in the work.

    Bitters - have you been up close to the Angel? its magnificent and very atmospheric and the people who live close to it in terraced streets love it and have fantastic views of it.

  74. @Turminder

    According to what I can find, Gormley's represented by White Cube.

    White Cube
    Web: www.whitecube.com
    Company Email: press@whitecube.com
    Honey Luard
    Tel: 020 7930 5373
    Fax: 020 7749 7470

  75. Scherf - where the fuck did you find the Nick thing? Am laughing at his explanation of what a 'manger' is: 'old-fashioned sort of animal feeding thing', or words to that effect.

  76. Radio 4 has a prog on tax avoidance by companies - loopholes which let big businesses slash their UK tax bills.

    Move your company to a Swiss post office box number, and the world of tax avoidance is your lobster.

  77. Evening all

    Here's a tune fromDONNY HATHAWAY for any UT ers going through tough times.

  78. "I've got a new-born lamb ... an early-born lamb ... we'll give him that".

    Translation: "it's probably going to die anyway".

  79. God, that was revolting. Nick needs a lot of work on his story-telling skills, apart from anything else.

  80. BB, that music brings back some memories. Mostly of being in Eleanor Jones's bedroom many times and being too scared of her.

    Goth chicks! Once you know how, they are the best.

  81. Aw, thanx Peter, Honey Luard? Well I am now...

  82. And the cat is clearly more evil than any white cat because it stays on his revolting lap. You may be right about the sedation, although it does move. I think it's an accomplice.

  83. I couldn't take the Nick Griffin...

    Goth Chicks, either really hot, or 'the Wednesbury starfish' (create your own mental image)

  84. Sheff
    I have only driven past it. Reminds me of those oversized soviet statues. Just the proportions alone - they're wrong - make it ugly. I'm sure I'm alone in this feeling, but can't avoid it. It just feels to me like an experiment in human hope and endeavour gone horribly wrong.

    Like all his other stuff, and the principles involved are well laudable. But there ya go. Looks like it should be in a huge bell jar.

  85. Thanks for the Nick Griffin story scherf.

    Only managed about thirty seconds....

  86. God, I'm on a Ricardo Villalobos binge on youtube at the moment so I haven't looked at Griffin yet.

    Decisions, decisions...

    This one, called Waiworinao (think about it...) is lurvely though, and a lot of his latin roots showing through, which is not half bad for a geezer that usually just does bleeps, squeaks and crunches.

  87. "If we are going to talk about 80s music on worn out cassettes", then I'm off to watch Street Wars.

    Fucking awful decade - best defined as being bookended by 1979 and 1991; years that stand in history like two enormous trafic cones; in the middle a great big open hellhole of tuneless vacuuosity, blatant materialism, shit drugs, general mincing about and synthesised drums.

    On the other hand there were New Order and the Fall and Morissey, who were the biggest bunch of bastards in the history of the North. All should have been disowned by the left years ago, and would readilly have been had they been all that was on offer.

    Fucking eighties. Grr.

  88. Fuck me ... the level of grovelling going on on Cif ... I can't take it.

    Need something with crunchy guitars that reminds us that the future's uncertain and the end is always near.

  89. BW - agree about the Angel of the North's proportions - they do look wrong. Maybe it's a balance thing? Don't like it at all.
    Love the figures on Crosby Beach though.

  90. BW - heh - totally agree about the 80s.

  91. shazthewombat
    Yeh - I *really* like everything else he's done, he's quite possibly my favourite of his "generation". Weird.
    But there ya go.

  92. BW

    We will never be friends

    *flounces off in her electric blue tube dress with matching neon accessories and legwarmers*

  93. Like it thaum!
    I'm off, see y'all.

  94. But always lovers, ma cherie !

    I will never forget Redcar...

  95. Hah! Substitute!

    My first 12" single evah.


  96. BW

    You promised you'd never talk about that on here...

  97. Oops- Sorry !!!

    Heh. Right. missus is home. got stuff to sort. cya soon.

  98. I'm back on me minimal.

    This is a Canadian bloke called Mathew Johnson, and I have always thought that this would make a great soundtrack to a psycho thriller.


    I will drag you kicking and screaming into the 21st century if it's the last thing I do!!! :D

  99. Yeah, sorry about the Griffin folks, but it's actually worth watching just to see what a totally mental fucking clown he is. I thought it was funny - this is the man that NewLabour and Cif were totally panicking about a year or so ago. Remember all those articles by Labour party apparatchiks about how the BNP could become a force in politics and all those hundreds of BNP trolls invading the numerous Cif threads and people manning the barricades, and Labour trying to get an apathetic vote out to save their own sorry asses in case the UK went fascist? Well, that's what all the fuss was about - a fat guy sitting by the fireside babbling about baby Jesus with a drugged mixed-race cat on his lap. I'm just amused by the absurdity of it all.
    Might be time for another scaremongering article on Cif about the danger of the BNP. Or not.

  100. scherf

    I will look at it right now!

    There was a moment there, though, at the Euros, when I was seriously worried (what with the nascent EDL and all) that the wanker would get a parliamentary seat. So yeah, I hold my hands up as one of those wetting my knickers at the time.

    Those geezers do scare me though.

  101. Scherfig, what do you mean, 'clown'? He has just completely converted me to his cause with his heart-warming video. And I have ten pussy-cats who are all for the baby Jesus.

  102. ... And they all hate Muslims. It's a strange thing, but you have to trust your cats' instinct.

  103. Christ I can't watch much more of that - only just had me tea!

    Is the punchline "just because a dog is born in a stable, it doesn't make it a horse" by any chance?

  104. BB - you're going to have to classify me with BW in the 'not into the 21st century' league. Listened to (part of) your Waiworinao link. Erm....

    Now here's one from an album that proudly proclaimed NO SYNTHESISERS! (Although I think they went back on that in later albums.)

    A man who cried for a love gone stale and ice-cold hearts of chartiy bare.

  105. Knew I recognised those lyrics - thanks thaumaturge, great song.

  106. This track from Ian Drury could have been named after successive UK Governments between 1997-2010.

  107. Y'know, I think my disaffection with the current music scene is that so few of them are willing to piss off their corporate masters. No doubt there are plenty available on t'web (in fact, I've seen some very good live bands round these parts), but the stuff available for mass consumption is fucking dire.

    No-one writes protest songs any more.

    Here's another song with the direction TO BE PLAYED AT MAXIMUM VOLUME.

  108. Paul and Shaz - thanks for the tunes (good ones) - am floating off to bed on effervescence.... :-)

  109. Still listening to the Queen choon as I work my way down the list. It must be decades since I listened to it! Crikey!

    Commercial stuff is shite at the moment, for sure Thaum.

    Onto Ian Dury next, Paul...

  110. @thauma et al

    I'm not a Bowie fan but i liked this soundtrack from a film he starred in called Merry Xmas Mr Lawrence


  111. An Effervescing Elephant
    with tiny eyes and great big trunk
    once whispered to the tiny ear
    the ear of one inferior
    that by next June he'd die, oh yeah!
    because the tiger would roam.

    I think I was about 17 the last time I heard that, Shaz! I had the album. And I coloured it in with felt tips... :o)

  112. Mmmm... Riyuchi Sakamoto.

    Nice and chilled. Lurvely.

  113. And this one is especially for HANK ii he's around.

  114. Let's eat the rich


  115. @ Paul Good choon from the 70's, It should be for everyone - not just Hank !!! Boy that Jimmy B rocks !

    @ BW What can you say to that ? Spoof gone mad or the future ?

    Currently watching 'The Insider' whilst smoking a fag, love that Ammonia !!

  116. I see the wheels have already well and truly come off that moderation thread.

    Complete waste of space by the looks of it - anyone care to differ ?

  117. OK, just to finish the day as it began and then to at least attempt to ignore the imbecilities of CiF.

    (Please feel free to skip over this).

    26 October 2010 8:49PM

    A useful and timely thread. Thanks Guardian.

    One of the issues that was raised ATL was the legal issues involved and that is something really interests me having studied industrial law at college.

    I'm not so interested about defamation but about the legal issues regarding system security and cyber attacks. As many of you will know from the recent Defence Spending Review, massive investment in countering network attacks is planned and that means attacks upon the government, national institutions and businesses. The Guardian is not only a business but one of our national institutions. I don't think I need to explain why.

    I don't know too much about the ins and outs of anti terrorism and civil contingency legislation except that it is draconian. Once fallen foul of these laws, the forces of hell will be unleashed upon you. That's what we do when we are being threatened in this country.

    My specific interest is the Misuse of Computers Act which makes it an offence to access a computer system without authorisation from the owner of the system. It is also an offence to modify data on that system without authorisation.

    So here's one for the lawyers to answer as best they consider wise if they would be gracious enough to do so. How would you judge if a cyber attack as defined by law had taken place against your computer system and at what point would you consider reporting it to the authorities?

    So, any chance of a legal opinion? :)


    Thauma now offers you some good advice, Halfwit:

    26 October 2010 8:59PM

    Erm, I doubt if the 'authorities' would be particularly interested in a few people exploiting a software loophole in order to recommend posts on a comment webiste. Hardly seems high on the National Immediate Danger list.


    Now, EH, I want you to stop worrying your empty little head about all this cyber-attack nonsense.

    I'm going to let you into a secret, which you can pass onto the authorities, whether that is MI5 or The Sweeney or Jack Bauer or the bloke from the local allotments who knows someone.

    It'll put you in the clear and put them on the tracks of the terrrrrrrsts.

    I did post in somewhere else - perhaps WADDYA - but you probably got it deleted in a frenzied panic-button pressing episode.

    Don't worry.

    Here is the code.

    Here is the secret key to how you can set the numbers spinning on any comment you choose and feel the universe shuddering under your power.

    Use the power wisely, Halfwit.

    This is it:

    Hit Recommend
    Refresh the page
    Hit Recommend
    Refresh the page


    If you want to see the numbers really spin, hit Recommend really fast repeatedly and....


    Carry the secret in your heart forever, Halfwit.

    The safety of the universe is now in your hands.

  118. Thinking of James now !!

    So here is a choon [look away vagina's] with Pavaroty This is a man's world

  119. Aww AB

    Now you've gone and spoilt it.

    (Besides which it doesn't work for me, anyhoo...)

  120. BB

    You have to be logged out, so this makes it less suitable for some who are afflicted with addiction and cannot quite manage to unplug themselves.

    If you have two browsers and refresh them alternately and click like a daemon, you can probably knock up a couple of hundred "recs" (as we say in the trade) in about 5-10 minutes.

    However, different browsers behave differently and some may limit you to just one or two recs at a time.

    Others, though, spin like the wheels in a one-armed bandit.

    Dagga, dagga, dagga!

  121. U have to be logged out tho, whispered conspiracy Grand-nephew.

  122. ORrr damn AB - give it away again why don't you !!!

  123. Lol, AB Nytol, as a wise and entertaining spam luvvie would say ; )

  124. Who says:

    Posed the cynic

  125. Hello Ireland !

    I'll have a 1608 at this time of night please !

    Are you looking for the best way to entertain a 'Soda Farl' ?

  126. tascia

    It has not so much been given away, as passed on to the one who has shown himself to be the true keeper of such knowledge.

    Otherwise, the strain of maintaining the purity of CiF would have driven the Wit of One Half quite insane.

    However, there are other secrets he must earn and learn.

    He has just begun the journey of true knowledge which will one day allow him to be, first CiF Sentinel, then CiF Protector.

    However, he is still a novice and we are still the Keepers of the WADDYA Protocols.

    His journey will be long and we have the patience to wait and watch.

    And laugh.

  127. Now to sleep, to plot and plan.

    We will soon have to meet to choose...

    The Overthrower.

  128. My name's BB and I'm a CiFaholic...

  129. As if the "mod" thread would make any difference!
    It's business as usual over on CIF.

  130. Gosh, AB, you must have got that from the Chinese Government!!

  131. BB

    Noooo . . you don't have to go down that path..

    But then again.. You are bloody good over there BB..

    Maybe I should say "stick to your chosen path" ?
    You fight a good corner !!

  132. PeterJ

    It is an ancient ritual, its details passed on through special ear-wiggles by Shaolin monks when used for the good.

    Unfortunately, parts of it have fallen into the hands of the Chinese government, which they use to bring western military and government computers and networks to their knees.

    The Magic Numbers Method (to which Halfwit and those here are now privy) is sometimes all that keeps the world from shattering with the loss of all the sacred CiF records.

    Needless to say, CiF and the sanctum of WADDYA must be protected at all costs.

  133. OK, fuck it.

    It's tomorrow now, so I'm off.

  134. tascia

    I try me best. Sometimes I post utter arse-gravy though. Depends on whether I am in a fighting mood or not.

    AB - no it isn't, it's today, silly...

    And on that note, I am off to bed and looking forward to my lie-in tomorrow. NN xx

  135. Hi shellshock

    Good to see you.Always like reading your posts on cif.Glad you've joined us.I've got an early start tomorrow so i'm signing off now.Catch up with you another time :-)

  136. Just one possible future...

    Astronomy of Ancient Egypt

    Written and Researched by:

    Babel Gay Ax - FP author x2
    Edited by: Atlantic_Cable

    Referenced Entries: Beer

    Total Solar Eclipses....

    from here. Right off to bed nn.. ; P

  137. hi Pauul

    thanks, I've been a lost soul on CIF for some time now. People were disappearing left right and centre, and I was getting banned and deleted more often than I was posting, so I seem to have missed out on a lot! I love CIf for the way you can exchange opinions/debate with, but the quality of posters has gone down, because so many of them are over here!!!!!!!