07 October 2010


This must be Thursday.  I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
-Douglas Adams


  1. No to homophobia on the web !


  2. Woohoo!

    Two Jaffa Cakes stuck together!

  3. Bitterweed - thanks - I needed to smile this morning!! Simple but effective tool that ;-)

    Having trouble with my posting.... it might be in the spam ;) (I'm in the spam literally)


  4. Grrrrrr..... keep getting Error: URL request too large page... it's saying my comment was posted but it's not appearing... anyone else having trouble?

  5. @gaylurker (I've no doubt you're hanging around in cyberspace somewhere)

    you wrote: "Laritournelle, I haven't 'vanished', I was just busy. Do you expect me to be available all the time just to respond to your inane comments? I won't be commenting here again, but I'll answer one point.

    try being a woman.

    I have tried that, and am continuing to try. I am a woman, albeit a gay one. I don't expect you to approve, but you could at least try to understand. Fuck you and your homophobic hypocritical mates. Seems like everybody here now is having a laugh at Parris and Glover and talking about dicks. You sad pathetic hypocritical fucks"

    1. Where did I write that I demanded you stick around to respond to my inane comments? (Their inanity only being your opinion btw)

    2. If you can't be arsed to adress what I'd actually written and instead preferred to take an indirect swipe at me, then that speaks volumes - you're being a bully - the mode of choice for all cyber-cowards.

    You've neatly encapsulated what I was saying about identity politics last night - it's all about you, you, you and your injured feelings. Classic troll technique, like the bloody cyber thought police. Who appointed you keeper of moral rectitude anyway? What about offending my feelings with your repeated attacks and your complete abscence of a sense of humour? Or your attack on SheffPixie?

    Do you know what that makes you? A fucking self-righteous hypocrite, that's what.

    I make a lame, inappropriate joke, which I admit was such and you behave as if I'm rounding up gay people and putting them in prison like some kind of cyber facist. Talk about OTT.

    And PS - I couldn't give a shit about your sexuality, I define myself as a human being first - why can't you, or do you only define yourself by your sexuality?

  6. AB
    Actually - it looks like the Geffen logo...

  7. Thanks for the paining btw
    I love Magritte...

  8. I'll have a look in the spam folder....

  9. Thauma:

    Thanks! It was weird ;)

    Did you liberally distribute the alcopops? Is the vid on YOuTUbe yet?

  10. Nah, the wee buggers had vamoosed by then.

  11. No, I didn't watch the Apprentice, just seeing the first few minutes on iPlayer nearly made me upchuck! Honestly, are these people real? Does someone actually say 'I consider myself extremely gifted'. Eughh. However, there are some hilarious comments in the TV section of the G. here is one by Yukio:

    I once had an audition for "The Apprentice"

    It took place in a hotel in Glasgow.

    I stood in a line with other "hopefuls" and listened as one chap actually used the phrase "I like to think outside the box".

    I couldn't stop myself from laughing out loud.

    The producer chappy turned to me and asked me to give my spiel...so I said that I hadn't ever thought outside of the box, only inside it. When he asked me if I could tell him what was inside the box I told him "No, it's very dark and I think someone might have put the lid on".

    I didn't make it through.

    I console myself with the fact that I only applied "for a laugh"...honestly, on my application form when it asked why I would make a good candidate I said "I would make a good candidate because unlike every other candidate I am not a cock".

    Funny old world.

  12. @IanG

    I, too, have never watched The Apprentice. That does not stop me recommending Cassetteboy's version on YouTube, though, which is essential viewing.

  13. Just finished reading yesterdays UT - brilliant so many timely and funny comments that it was a sheer delight to read. Something that that is always welcome in shit times.

    Impossible to pick a winner but this:

    "Sheffpixie said...
    Oh so it was PeterB...strange isn't it chekhov, he's pretty well house trained in the RW as we both know now, but give him a keyboard and he's off, spraying his territory like a demented polecat.

    was a front runner.

    Pissed mesen Sheff - loved it.

    The work on the Incapacity Benefit appeal comes on a pace. I'll tell you all about it in due course. I think/hope we are going to have some fun and inflict a lot of pain on 'them' whether 'we' win or loose or draw.

    Happily me mate is an old comrade and almost a founding member of the awkward squad, and he can stand the loss - provided the fight is entertaining and helps others who are less fortunate.

    He is very motivated and up for making the bastards uncomfortable as they sweat and twist and turn. Even if he loses it will be at the very last fence 'they' will have earned their acorns as they troughed around in their own contradictions and shit.

    LaRit - I'll pick up later on what you saying (t'other day) about the night sweats that come when people find themselves conflicted by authority/employers who insult a their dignity and thus fire their sense of injustice. A powerful motivator that can indeed take you to madness...

    thauma - I have no compunction in taking the piss out of the Blairs bedroom habits.You choose to bed an ugly gurning ghoul you deserve all you get. (I'm talking about him although she's no oil painting) In any event it would seem a little churlish to be delicate about a pair of creeps I would gladly torch.

    laters comrades.

  14. Deano - excellent - Sheff's one reminds me of Michael Foot's description of Norman Tebbit -
    "semi house-trained polecat"

  15. ...they don't make MPs like that any more...

  16. Deano:

    Really looking fwd to the outcome of the IB case ;)and your reflections....

    I thought if anyone missed it as we're onto soundbites which make you piss yourself laughing... this link was posted (from 2001) re: Iain Duncan Smith and how all the 'quiet man' stuff is complete flannel - he's as rabid as Gove but has managed to prevent the madness from leaking onto his face.

    Duncan Smith, Champion of the Right

    "One tale from 1992 has the pair out canvassing in Chingford. A woman stopped the would-be MP to ask his opinion on fox hunting - before he could answer Lord Tebbit had intervened saying: "Madam, these are the teeth of a killer. This man must have meat or die.

  17. Paul - we are definitely hoping to explore the medical ethics questions/position/complaint with the professional body of the hapless, ill informed, money grubbing shit who fucked me mate over.

    Happily the twat of a nurse involved is a male. That's abit of relief since as well as lady librarians I have a thing about lady nurses too - something to do with the starched aprons I think. But I'm not sexist I'll just as happily have a go at the throat of a women nurse if If I think sheis arrogant, unfair and pretentious.

    Never bothered me getting me eyes scratched in the fray.

    For those who might have missed it last night:

    "Montana Wildhack said...
    Fucking hell. Just reading Waddaya. Emphasis added:


    6 October 2010 1:55PM

    I know herm, I'm almost... but not quite, perfect, and I'm not going anywhere. A rhino is a terribly thin-skinned creature in my opinion. Of course, I realise that there are many who aren't particularly fond of loud opinionated women who refuse to be cowed by anyone or anything. It's a bit scary... so some tend to resort to the snide when they see it... But I don't mind in the slightest, it just slides off my imperious milky but freckled back... and, you know, if it upsets them so.. they could always scroll past my posts!

    Montana added the bold emphasis
    and it made me smile.

    I must say I have a particular like for genuine opinionated women, but of course the real ones ain't loud at all. They are simply and quietly firm, standfast and determined. I should know, my beloved sometime is one and has been for all the 40+ years I've known her. I'm not sure but it could be a genetic disorder, my mother, sisters and daughter all seem to have been silmilarliy disorderd.

    They have plenty of sisters here on UT too who they'd recognise and like if they were ever to have met.

    If I were still drinking I would at this point offer the joyful toast..."to opinionated ladies everywhere" Thank god for them.

  18. @deano

    I'd join you in that toast. Which is ironic, as that pile of kizcrap was aimed specifically at me.

  19. "This must be Thursday. I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
    -Douglas Adams"

    "Is this Thursday or better Friday? - I could never get the hang of Tuesday or Monday"


    But then for the last five years of my working life I wore a wristwatch that had stopped at twenty past two.

  20. PeterJ,

    I meant to ask, what's the latest goings on in Halifax Ziggy's Spice House league?

    Have any of the previous great clubs now floundering been the subject of a buy out by the nearby rounders team?

  21. Hang about, hang about,

    just had a look myself. Junction AFC of Ziggy's Spice House league Division 2 have had to resign from the league due to lack of players.

    Is it just me that sees an opening for AFC Prize Fuckwits here?

    What position can you all play?

  22. @13th Duke:

    Second slip was my usual position – or point/cover point if no second slip employed.

    I do enjoy a good game of cricket!

  23. The Halifax reported today that house prices fell by 3.6% in September. That is a ball crushing hit for homeowners in properties bought during the boom years. An anomaly? Maybe. But one thing is certain: house prices will continue to slide or stagnate for a decade. And that's assuming interest rates remain subdued. Will they? For a year at least, yes, but after that fasten your belts: inflation is coiling as we speak, and it may spring higher in lightening fashion.

    In which case, all bets are off.

  24. Duke/Swifty

    Can't we play Rounders? I was bloody good at that at primary school....

  25. @ Duke:

    I'll play at outside centre if needed, always tried to keep well away from the scrum - it's an ear thing !

  26. @Duke

    I have indeed been remiss in my match summaries. Last weekend saw two 7-3 scores, for Mixenden United against Salem and table-toppers Stainland United against my own beloved Sowerby Bridge. There was also a gritty 1-0 win for Hebden Royd RS Reserves over Brighouse Old Boys, but nobody cares about them.

    However, a closer look at the table shows that Stainland's position is a false one, caused by playing all its matches to date at home. Perhaps its chairman owns the only ball?

    As for AFC Fuckwits, I turned out as a left-sided striker for my college. And centre half. And goalkeeper, actually. We didn't have a lot of players in the squad.

  27. I can play the irate grandfatherly fan on the touchline. I'll start rehearsing.

    I've always wanted to emulate me late mate's grandfather who was banned from watching schoolboy rugby (league) in Leeds in the late 1950's.

    His crime was to rush onto the pitch and threaten the referee with the sharp end of steel tipped corner flag.......but then the referee had awarded the decision against his 12 year old grandson, me now much missed old mate.

    To be fair granddad had had several warnings, over the season, for his frequent immodest very loud outbursts of allegedly foul mouthed advice. That said he was a committed fan who took the business of diversionary and intimidating tactics seriously and elevated it to an art-form.

    We missed him when he was no longer there.

  28. I can be a linesman. I'll probably notice when the ball crosses the goal line, so I'm not actually World Cup standard, but anyway...

  29. I'm shite at cricket Deano - so that's two of us on the sidelines ;)

  30. From Waddya:

    7 October 2010 12:32PM

    DWP are wanting comments for ESA customers.

    I trust a few people here would appreciate the opportunity to tell the DWP about their duty of care to the sick and disabled and the dying, and the disgraceful reneging on that duty that Atos, ESA, and the WCA represent.


  31. Peter Bracken,

    is it just me or is it just a bit too convenient that the Halifax announce house price drops mere weeks after Junction AFC resign from Halifax's most esteemed amatuer football league?

    Can someone get on the batphone to GIYUS about this?


    Here's your beloved Sowerby United's home site.

    A natty kit I must say and it appears that Jaap Stam has found a career in the lower leagues (next to goalie).

    When I was at Uni I used to play sunday league and the fixtures were always a nightmare. I remember we were once 2nd bottom with 19 games in hand. That glorious west of scotland weather.

  32. @Duke

    Don't give me that crap! Sowerby Untited are our bitter local rivals, or would be if we were in the same league. Get a grip, man.

  33. PeterJ,

    what a faux pas, and there's me as a football man. Please accept my abject apologies.

    Getting those two mixed up reminds me of the time I was travelling in the US and in a bar in Chicago. I got talking to these two lads and when I said I was Scottish, one of them piped up:

    "Are you a Celtic rangers supporter?" believing them to be named similar to the Texas rangers baseball team.

  34. ".. inflation is coiling as we speak, and it may spring higher in lightening fashion..."

    It can hardly do anything other, it's been greased by £200bn of QE to help it along its intended way.

    That's two things to agree about Braken! - I agree house prices will fall (they need to).....those little shits in Nulabour having no will or grown up vision have left shit on the blanket and along with their rich beneficiaries all hope the problems can be quietly and gently inflated away. (to the usual and traditional disadvantage of the poor on limited, fixed and declining incomes)

    Interesting times ahead as the inflation snakes and coexists with the deflating of the sacred cows. Houses are for many of the deluded currently prized assets with front door keys, but they easily become yokes/millstones locked around their necks..

    Arguable that the absurdity of the last few years of the bubbling housing market was really yet to be paid for hidden inflation anyway. Bank of England Governor knows in his heart of hearts he should have done something about it years ago and so too does Greenspan - both should be bonfired along with their vanity and their supporters.

    .....and as for those who aided and abetted the uber creep and his tosspot mate Blair et al......Don't get too comfortable in your beds at night.

    Invest in gallows manufacturers...it might yet be the coming thing, that or milk bottle manufacturers.

  35. "...Invest in gallows manufacturers...it might yet be the coming thing, that or milk bottle manufacturers..."

    Christ deano, if you’re advocating violent insurrection with your talk of Molotovs and the rope… check out “Secret Iraq”, part 2 aired on BBC2 last night, if you want to see what happens when tooled-up, organised and opposing ideologies clash on the streets in the modern world… particularly unedifying episode in so many ways, not least in its detailing of the British role in the collapse of law, order, and, near as damn it, civil society in Basra.

  36. SwiftyBoy, I also watched that Secret Iraq and frightening it was too. The honesty of all concerned (of course it was after the event - natch), that story of 'blossoming' for a start. That IT guy was pretty robust to take those mock executions as well as he did and come out sane.

    Unusual for the BBC to have something so compelling. CH4 has had a really good run of documentaries recently, it can't last feel.

  37. Afternoon all

    After yesterdays 'punch up' on waddya anyone participating in any repetition has been threatened with the 'naughty step'.Also they seem to be one step closer to opening up a thread for 'chat' so that waddya can revert to its original purpose-namely a place to submit ideas for posts etc.Seems like a sensible idea to me.

  38. I'm not an advocate Swifty. - more an interested observer in how from time to time the establishment listens to some nutters and ends up with the consequences.

    We live in unstable times - I simply hope that some of those whose careless arrogant indifference and crass encouragement which fueled the mess get singed as the shitted blanket burns.

    ps I am of course an eternal optimist.....

    I'd like it be painless but there has to a change of direction else the future for so many is shite.

    I take the moral responsibility seriously. There is an intergenerational debt to be paid. I have previously said that if/when the cock or lung canker get to me I would like me body to go to a good cause.

    If when that happens just pass me the rapidly expanding belt and I'll try to help by standing next to some of the shits who soiled the blanket.

    Some posh word out there that describes the feeling ...cant recall it.......summat to do with alienated grandfathers...

    It's a rough kind of justice that would see the likes of Paris Hilton locked in her own designer handbag filled with vomit, but such images can help the oppressed get through day.

    You may have missed my early alert t'other day that the idea of a Headingley UT get together has been floated for the Sri Lanka game next July?

    A day on the Western Terraces, followed by a crawl down the Otley Road, before the end of civilisation would be a nice thing though and I hope it comes to pass.

  39. Giyus is on fire today:

    'One ring to rule all the posts'

    posed the cynic

    'and in the darkness moderate them'

  40. @deano:

    Re. the cricket – there’s every chance I’ll be there anyway mate, even if it is only an ODI. I usually make it up to Headers once a year, get to see a couple of very good Yorkshire mates into the bargain, and enjoy a drink in the light drizzle…


    It’d have been better if it scanned though…

    One ring to rule the posts
    And in the darkness ban them…

    Or something.

  41. posh word recalled as I waited at the plumbers merchants counter....it was Anomie. Don't know why but I always conjur up the picture of a pissed off Samurai warrior when the word comes in me head...

    Right that's me done hanging around son's place whilst plumber did his work, I'm away to walk with Mungo on what is pleasant autumn afternoon here in Yorks - forecast was good for most for the weekend when I last looked.

  42. Afternoon all

    BB in disguise again here.

    What position can I play? Left Back in the changing room, of course....

    Feeling grumpy after a row with my clerk at work, who seems to think it is perfectly reasonable to expect me to go from Gatwick to Chancery Lane and from Chancery Lane to St Albans in time for 9am tomorrow morning. Eeejit.

    I shall go and see if there are any fascists I can take my temper out on...

  43. Stupid me -

    Anomie... "Aujourd’hui, maman est morte. Ou peut-être hier, je ne sais pas" ("Today mother died. Or maybe yesterday, I don't know".). not a Samurai at all. Perhaps an Algerian frog what done it

    I really must stop being starstruck and in awe and actually listen to what lady librarians tell me when I ask them what the story is about.

    I've plainly been the subject of subliminal influences from the past...

    ....mind you it could have been that Durkheim bloke. I did do in 'A' level in sociology 40 some years ago. Actually the lady FE lecturer( an Exeter Uni graduate whose books I shamefully never returned) who taught me was..............a very pleasant lady FE lecturer indeed.

    I sat in awe of her delightful presence for many a daydreamed hour so perhaps she planted the word whilst I was abstracted in my consuming admiration of her.

    Ah the origins of the words that enter our heads

  44. I reckon the UT should get tooled up - blades, baseball bats and all that - and go over to CiF manor to sort out the Waddya crowd. Someone can distract them with all them university 'd' words (dialectic, didactic and dichotomy) - they love that shit so everyone will be waving silk handkerchiefs at each other and shouting 'au contraire' - while I creep up round the blind side and twat 'em round the head with a pool cue. I shall them ask them "Who's the paternalistic figure around this environs now my good fellow?"

    Which one of yew one-bollocked cunts is with me? Let's get it sorted.

  45. afternoon compadres

    Yr Grace
    Halifax Ziggy's Spice House league?

    I want to know whats happened to The Volunteer Arms - they seem to have disappeared from the map.


    re the 'semi house trained polecat' quote of M Foot. Must have had that at the back of my mind when I posted my comment on PB although not aware of it. Is it actually possible to be original any more, or are we always riffing off other people work? I suspect the latter, certainly in my case.

  46. Rapideddie

    Is it that bad today? will tootle over and have a look.

  47. Eddie - dialectice, didactic and dichotomy? Reckon most of 'em don't know what they mean.

    Try cakes and kitten heels.

  48. thauma

    Don't you mean white stilettos?I've heard they're all the rage amongst catering staff in Scunthorpe.Not sure about Andalusia though!

  49. @Rapid

    Er.. I think I might be UT and Whaddya.

    Do I have to wave a silk handkerchief at myself and then twat the back of my own head? Where can I even get a silk handkerchief? Oh, hold on, I've got an old silk shirt somewhere (a misguided purchase in the 90s) so perhaps I can cut one out. Haven't got a pool cue, but I do have a telescopic cosh. Can I use that?

  50. @Sheff

    Volunteer Arms are sixth in the table, and didn't have a match last weekend. You're playing a grudge match away at Mixenden United's Natty Lane fortress on Saturday, so fingers crossed!

  51. Nah Sheff, I think it's relatively sane over there today - although the day is still young - and Jess is doing her best "We're very disappointed in all of you" spiel.

    The obvious thing to do would be excise any and all comments stoking up the personal grudges, plus the non-existant Waddya vs. UT death match that Bru seems intent on constructing (hi Bru!). But no, all the types of comments that Jess complains about at the start of each thread are left to stand, thereby ensuring a response. Meanwhile, anyone who suggests - for example - that Bidisha, aged 13, might not be the foremost authority on anything and everything sees posts slaughtered like a high diver executing a triple-back somersault into a woodchipper.

    Meanwhile, Natalie is trying to put the whole moderation issue on the longest of long fingers in the hope that everyone forgets about. That should work.

  52. BeautifulBurnout

    I think what sickens me more than anything is the number of fairly ordinary people who are in relatively average jobs who bloody support this!

    It’s like those Tea Party idiots – fairly ordinary people protesting against the unamerican activity of attempting to give them universal health care, or any protection if they lose their jobs or health – this is a free country – please feel free to come and take away as many of my rights as a human being as you like – we don’t want any evil socialist ways here - what we need is a lot of Kochs.

    They say that what happens in the US wanders over here in time, so here we have it – working up to jog – protection for ‘the workers’, ‘the sick’, and soforth – please stop it – no more of all of those scroungers taking advantage of our hard work – let the mega-rich scroungers take advantage of us instead please - we’ve had enough of human rights – shouldn’t be allowed.

    Anyway, the lack of jobs is no longer relevant - because now the jobless only need to get going at creating their own jobs – problem solved.

    While there are plenty of jobs available in banking and finance.

    (Taking away benefits only applies to others of course – we’re banksters (and suchlike) – how dare you think of decreasing away our bonuses, and definitely not our child benefit.)


    Ha ha, How can they possibly manage on a mere 80k! Yet this'll be the same lot up on their hind legs braying that £65 a week is a lifestyle choice!

    The very same – it’s wrong to take my benefit – I’ve only – some large wage – take that feckless person’s benefit – they must be no good for becoming unemployed, or unwell, or not having a higher paying job, or ending up being alone with child/children... (even when they’re often exactly the same person who was a good gainfully employed citizen a while ago – or even quiite recently).

    Those articles about people living the high life on benefits – even if its true, and it’s usually exaggerated or taken out of context (and I suspect some of those people are an invention) – the blatant frauds are rare – that’s why they get headlines – but they are used to imply that a few million others are doing the same – when all of those others are only aware of struggling on from week to week.

    There are no lack of people on benefits in my community (scumbags), and I’ve never come across any that appeared to be living it up (that is, if they are, they’re very good at keeping it well hidden).

    So, if there are all of these people with this lifestyle choice of luxurious living on benefit riches – what I’d like to know is – how is it done?

  53. Kitten heels and cobalt jump suits with piping and cream belts.....hmm. Who'll be writing a piece on those?

    A grudge match at Natty Lane Peter? - now you're talking!

  54. sheff

    Kitten heels and jump suits are so last year here in the valleys.

    Have you read MaM on the B lawrence thread ? Best ignored I think.

  55. What are kitten heels? Sounds very cruel.

  56. RapidE:

    berry fuddy!

    But as I've been twatted by the Hand of Mod already this week - if I go over to waddaya and start I fight I'll get banned for sure.

    Actually, I'm quite enjoying it..... that'll confuse 'em ;)

    "Meanwhile, Natalie is trying to put the whole moderation issue on the longest of long fingers in the hope that everyone forgets about. That should work."

    This issue has been going on for so long, I can't believe we've been treated to yet another version of waddayayabbadabbadoo in yet another format, when all the same grudges and gripes come up over and over again. It's really very boring.


    You should know by now, the middles and middle uppers have no idea how to dress themselves - they think wearing white stilettos, is being 'ironic' and 'cool' when they just look like twats.

    In the 80's of course, everyone, of all classes had bad taste (except for me because I'm practically perfect) so they are forgiven ;)

  57. Leni:

    I had the displeasure to read MAM the other day...from madder to madder to complete insanity.....

  58. Hmph. I am still working. And have to be logged back in at 7 tomorrow morning in case the world explodes again.

    Think I'm going to get one of those taxpayer-funded palaces and loll back in luxury watching a 60-in HD telly for the rest of my days. I mean, according to MAM, it's a piece of piss to do.

  59. Shit that's five miuntes of my life I'll never get back.

    Eddie. Save your energy. It'd be more like storming a golf club.

  60. "I am still working."

    Sorry to hear that thauma

  61. P-Brax, are you reading?

    I don't want to take this onto Waddya, but you said this:

    "Which is why brooklynowes finds himself in the timorous position of dancing between Spike-like executioners and trigger-happy moderators."

    Not it isn't. Bitey finds himself in the timourous position of dancing between spike-like executioners and trigger-happy moderators because of posts on CiF accusing Montana and I of being unfit mothers because of the time we spend on the internet, calling me a drunk (which I am not) suggesting that it was no wonder my son had run away from home (when he hadn't) and saying that Montana's son - who I think was 9 at the time - had an underage drink problem (which he doesn't).

    None of these things were true, but were his own personal fantasies based on snippets of conversations he had gleaned on here and extrapolated to the nth degree. And had used them to attack us personally when all we had ever done was to argue his points with him.

    In his current incarnation he has been relatively quite reserved, all things considered. I think he has realised that attacking women on CiF is not a very manly, grown-up, feminist (he calls himself a feminist, not I) thing to do after all, as he gets himself banned for it every time.

    However, he will resort to personal abuse when he feels he is losing an argument, and that side of him is beginning to show through again now. Which is what I meant by "building up to a conflagration".

    On one occasion, he adopted a brand new nick just to post insults addressed to me on Waddya, in the wee small hours of a Saturday morning when I and the mods were asleep.

    You are doing yourself no favours if you are allying yourself with a person for whom freedom of speech is equated with the very worst calomnies of the National Enquirer, to be used as a weapon against people who don't agree with you.


  62. BB - the example below is of a legal idea that I need to get me head around'

    It's called grandfather rights

    The example is about the legal standards for vision attached to different classes of driving licences.

    Put simply one eyed people are (mostly) allowed to drive cars but are not allowed to drive HGV's or large pubic service vehicles buses (class2)

    Plainly after a careful reading of the standards this is an example of a law which is absolute(ish) but permits these special exceptions for a defined group who are given these grandfather rights.

    I've never come across the phrase Gdad rights before. I imagine that it's some kind of device to deal with the law's traditional hostility to retrospective law....?

    Do you know of any other examples of grandad rules?

    I seem to recall that the hostility to retrospective law even finds expression in the EConvHR and thus the Human Rights Act.

    As part of my IB appeal/mischief I want to plant/float some later routes to the notion of bad retro law (via ill considered administrative rule)s in the appeal/communications.

    I always like to try run a little considered hogwash with a reference to the Euro Convention on Human Rights in my communications with Govt officials if I can....it unsettles them.

    The eyesight rules for driving are described in a government publication/guide in the following terms:

    (includes the use of one eye only for driving)
    Complete loss of vision in one eye (ie. If there is any light perception, driver is not considered monocular). Must notify DVLA but may drive when clinically advised that
    driver has adapted to the disability and
    the prescribed eyesight standard in the remaining eye can be satisfied
    there is a normal monocular visual field in the remaining eye, i.e. there is no area of defect which is caused by pathology.
    Complete loss of vision in one eye or corrected acuity of less than 3/60 in one eye. Applicants are barred in law from holding a Group 2 licence.

    **/*** Grandfather Rights below.

    * Must have held the Group 2 licence on either BOTH 01.01.1983 and 01.04.1991 OR on 01.03.1992 and be able to complete a satisfactory certificate of experience to be eligible. If obtained first Group 2 licence between 02.03.1992 and 31.12.1996 uncorrected visual acuity may be worse than 3/60 in one eye.
    ** Group 2 licence must have been issued prior to 01.01.1991 in knowledge of monocularity.
    *** Monocularity is acceptable for C1 applicants who passed the ordinary driving test prior to 01.01.1997 if they satisfy the number-plate test and the visual field requirement for the remaining eye.

  63. The Untrusted... where bad mothers become Badass Muthas.


  64. I haven't seen MaM for a while, but I did come across a certain Mr Tim Worstall this morning.

    Which is always a pleasure!

  65. BB - the above is poorly expressed.

    The law is in effect saying that HGV/PSV drivers must have two eyes except for a few specially identified and defined drivers who are given Grandfather rights and allowed to drive with one eye.

    Hope that makes a bit more sense.

    xx thanks.

  66. BB - well said.

    Deano - in the US, a 'grandfather clause' is a common term, although I'm not sure it means the same thing. For example, if your company gets bought out by another company with inferior pension or holiday pay or whatever, the 'grandfather clause' would allow the existing employees of the original company to maintain their higher rate of benefits.

    *Still* fuckin working ... will check out your link later, Bitters, ta!

  67. Cheers thaum there are/were 'Transfer' regulations in the UK which did the same thing in respect of employment matters but I've never seen the phrase grandfather rights explicitly used in a UK legal context before.

    I'm wondering if there's a whole class of laws/precedents that I know nothing about.

  68. Waddya has been invaded by a giyus gestalt being

  69. *sob*

    No food in house ... have unearthed a few lonely monkey nuts. Could make batch of chips if feel desperate.

  70. "have unearthed a few lonely monkey nuts"

    UT Strapline ahoy...

  71. Hehe BW ... wouldn't mind a change in strapline, although I'm sure there's a better one.

    When logging in at work, it's bad enough that it's clearly not a work-related site, but 'prize fuckwits', 'cuddled' and 'stroked' in very large, readable letters don't help! I always cover the window up with something else immediately.

  72. Btw, Montana, that wasn't meant as a criticism by any means! It was/is a good 'un. It's just a bit difficult to access the dashboard and so on since I have to go to the top of the page.... Luckily the people who sit behind me are in a completely different department and don't know who I am or what I do.

    Shit, run out of monkey nuts. Not full. Can't be arsed to make chips. Wine it is.

    Am still compressing database copy. *sigh*

  73. Deano

    The concept of no retroactive force of law is an ancient one, although we don't formally use the term Grandfather Rights. Art 7 of the ECHR is the one that prevents retrospective criminalisation of acts or omissions. But sadly it doesn't apply to non-criminal procedings. I know this because I come up against it a lot at the moment in Immigration Law.

    There is an Immigration Rule that gives someone who has been here continuously and lawfully for 10 years the right to apply for indefinite leave to remain. But where people are getting tripped up is that maybe once in 2000 they were a fortnight late in getting their Visa extended, for example; while at the time the Home Office were much more relaxed about things like that, and would grant the visa extension anyway, now under the 10-year rule, such a gap is considered to be a gap in lawful residence.

    "Aha," you cry, "They just have to wait until the 10-year point after that gap then!" Nope. Won't work, cos once an application has been refused the clock stops ticking.

    Sucks, eh? There is a let-out if you can prove extenuating circumstances at the time, but if you can't, a miss is as good as a mile.

  74. Thaum

    I feel your pain. I was working til about 10 last night in the end. Grrr..

    Not working tomorrow though. Got lots of paperwork that needs doing, so that is just as well.

    BW - Badass Muthas 4tw!

  75. Database compression failed. Give up. Bah.


    Not working tomorrow though. Got lots of paperwork that needs doing, so that is just as well.

    That fucking sounds like working to me!

  76. BW - you bastard - have just looked at your link!

  77. Thaum

    Well, yeah, it is work. Just not going to court to work. I'ze a bit daft tonight.

    Which link? Need to scroll back...

  78. Arse. Can't find it and too tired to look any more. If anyone can point me in the general direction of the time it was posted, I might make a bit more of an effort...

  79. Yeah, BB, it was BW directed at me. As I thought, sympathy for working late. But no. (19.16 post.)

    Have just checked out Waddya. Masses of deletions of Kizbot, Bru and Fencewalker. And then I saw the gravy argument and felt forced to point out how wrong people are about gravy-making. FFS. I'm one now.

    Only up to a bit after 5.00 too!

  80. Waddya, biggest pile of shite ever, don't waste your optics on it. Sad sacks.

    Like Waiting for Godot, but with cunts.

  81. LOL, that was harsh, BW!

    Harsh but funny.

    Was chatting with some colleagues at Wandsworth County Court the other day about how shite our clients were at actually telling the truth about - well - anything really, and wondering what would happen if we just pointed at them and did a Nelson "Ha Ha!" at them each time they were caught out in the witness box...

    We were also thinking of making Fridays official barristers tourettes days so we could actually tell them we didn't give a fuck about their stinking turd of a case if they couldn't be arsed to even fucking try and tell a credible story themselves....

    Dunno if it would go down very well with the Torygraph though.

  82. Heh... changing the subject, but sitting watching the ratty do "housework" - my beloved has just changed his bedding and given him some new fluffy stuff that he hasn't had before. So the ratty is pulling bits of it about and rearranging it all like a little old man fussing about the place and tidying up. Really cute. :o)

  83. Now Tourettes is a very misunderstood thing. Know someone with it - it's mostly about involuntary twitching; profanity comes into it in a minor way.

    Read about it here.

  84. Crikey, that's really interesting, thaum.

    I didn't realise how complex it was. I knew it could involve physical tics as well, but not the full extent of it all.

  85. I used to work in a place where one of our regulars had Tourettes, his manifested itself as head jerks and involuntary leg movements that meant he was continually shifting about to keep his balance, no verbal tics though.

    I imagine it is an horrific thing to live with just from seeing how he was treated by the other shop customers.

    He was sometimes treated like a dangerous freak despite the fact he was a perfectly polite and nice man.

    It amazes me how some people cope with life when they are handed such shitty conditions.

  86. Yep, it's a crap condition to have. Like many others. But I cringe a bit when I hear people refer to it light-heartedly in my mate's presence as if it was all about involuntary swearing.

    He's a good bloke and takes it in the spirit in which it was intended - well, he ignores it, really.

  87. Soz - didn't mean to be so crass, Thaum.

  88. Thauma

    I know that the people I know well that have real physical disabilities tend to deal with random comments by either ignoring them or making a joke of them.

    My Uncle, who I haven't seen for years, who had polio as a child which left him with a a twisted spine and legs did and my next door neighbour, who has cerebal palsy does but I wonder why people are so quick to make those kind of comments.

    To my detriment I used to do it myself, I was overfond of using the word 'mong' as an insult until one day my sister actually had a proper go at me for it.

    I was mortified but it really made me look at myself and change.

  89. Nah, no problem, BB. I did the same thing before I found out what it was really like.

    Must be off now. :-( NN all.

  90. There's this guy on youtube who documents his tourettes, and he's brilliant.

    The comment section (unusually for youtube) is all pretty supportive, and he engages with anyone who has any questions etc.

    He also does poetry, and a 'tourettes karaoke' when he feels his tics getting quite bad....

    He's actually pretty good

  91. Evening all !

    Leni -- something you were researching, on Corexit -

    National Commission on the BP Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill and Offshore Drilling


    Since deepwater drilling is coming soon near us , must be worth watching . I extracted the 'interesting' bits to the end of thread on Gulf oil spill article today: White House blocked and put spin on scientists' warnings

  92. Hello James, where are you, is it Brazil ?

  93. Silly question, must fill in that profile one day, I see you are a Golemite, too :)

  94. Hi Leni

    Thanks for your supportive post earlier on waddya.TBH Ms Reed's response left me speechless.The fact she clearly doesn't like me doesn't bother me but the fact she seemingly has no understanding of the demographic changes taking place in this country and the possible consequences of at very least not planning for the projected growth in population i find quite depressing.Plus her seeming regret at doing the first cousin article because it attracted btl racists-i mean WTF is that all about?.Racism is a fact of life and it needs to be confronted head on.And the issue of population growth isn't only about immigration it also calls into question whether it is responsible for British people like Joseph Harker to have 5 children if they can't afford them.

    I don't think Ms Reed is going to go for this because it's a contentious topic .However i do a wicked spag bol so if i submit the recipe for that tomorrow i'll no doubt be commissioned to write an ATL article about it.

  95. Dave

    Yup, Brazil. Somehow.

    I do follow Golem, although I have to admit that I haven't properly read it for a while now - keep meaning to check back in!
    He is a pretty good read though.



    (But unless it's some sort of fancy organic,--made from the milk of Tibetan Llama-- Spag Bol, I fear that it may be bit below the Guardian crowd!!)

  96. Paul

    he census early next year will throw up some interesting demographic changes I suspect - very soon after it happen local demographics will change as families losing HB and jobs start trying to move to cheaper areas.

    There are issues around food production too - services of course and importantly the country even more divided between rich and poor communities.

    I somehow doubt if the discussions will be subtle or nuanced !

    Safer to stick to gravy.

  97. Good evening, UT bloggers. Just a quick polite response to LaRitournelle, who considers me a 'fucking self-righteous hypocrite', and then I'll be off.

    I make a lame, inappropriate joke, which I admit was such

    My question is just that if your homophobic lame, inappropriate jokes (two of them in fact) were deleted on Cif, why did you feel the need to reproduce them here? Presumably it was to get a laugh, and you were proud of them? 'funny as fuck', they were, apparently. And why did some people here support you?

    Incidentally, I'm relieved to hear that you aren't going to round my type up and put us all in prison. As long as you just stick to taking the piss out of gays and laughing at them, I'll sleep relatively easily. Thanks for your tolerance.

  98. @gaylurker - I missed the jokes.

    I'm sure they were objectionable enough to justify lurking here and presenting yourself as self-righteous.

    "Incidentally, I'm relieved to hear that you aren't going to round my type up and put us all in prison."

    Oh purleeze.

    I'll just speak for myself here, gaylurker, and say that I like this site as far as it represents Old Labour, the old left, those working class people I grew up with who believed in equality but not positive discrimination, the people who were happy to support inclusive carnivals but not Gay Pride.

    I'm a racist and a homophobe anyway, so my views aren't representative of anyone on here, but I think you're full of shit anyway.

    I am so fucking bored of grabby middle class special interest groups like you.

  99. Right, clocking off time.

    Have a good one folks!!

  100. 'grabby middle class special interest groups like you.'

    Why do you just assume that i am middle-class, you fucking brain-dead moron? My father was a miner and my mother was a factory worker. I haven't been to university (have you?) and I don't have a 'middle class' job (do you?). You really are a knee-jerk neanderthal, aren't you?

  101. @gaylurker - I just assumed you were middle class because you were whining when you really didn't have anything much to whine about.

  102. I think gaylurker is not confident in her identity !
    Maybe she ought to get out more.
    Beliefs like hers are really objectionable to my gay friends.
    Get a fucking life, oh and try to lighten up - just a little. As said before you are a prissie self righteous twat !

  103. gaylurker,

    'Brain dead moron'??

    Not exactly the most tolerant and compassionate of phrases is it??

    So, just to clarify, making jokes about sexuality - offensive, calling someone a brain dead moron - ticketyboo!!??

  104. "PBracken - if people want free speech, they can set up their own unmoderated forums for that."
    (Jessica Reed)on "wadya".

    Was that a "Freudian slip"?

    In other words: "we know that CIF is a sham and that our moderation policy is totally arbitrary and if you don't like it, piss off"

    Why don't they be up front and honest about the "guidelines" when inviting new people to join in?

    "comment is free"...my arse!

  105. Ah but gaylurker you do have something to whine about:

    Being gay and being perceived to be persecuted. Is it because being gay in a working class environment makes coming out impossible? Ahh fucking pleeease. Grow a fucking backbone !

  106. Having said that, "wadya" isn't completely useless: "Killing Time" came up with this link of some awesome images.


  107. "Having said that, "wadya" isn't completely useless."

    Come the revolution, kamerad chekhov....

  108. btw: I know that "Comment is Free" is different from this site in that they don't want money grubbing lawyers crawling all over it. But that is just a convenient smokescreen to delete any comment that isn't toeing their line.
    What that line is, I've no idea but it certainly ain't sticking up for the working class.

  109. Ohhrr come on Chekhov, it's been written on here, many times, just how "Comment is Free" is no such ideal.
    I think even the the guardian are getting pissed off with the banal drivel that comes from certain posters who contribute nothing substantial.

  110. Anyway - we won our pool match tonight, so going to bed in a euphoric mood !

    NN all

  111. Evening chekhov and any other nightshifters.

    Just a quick visit with my mate STEVIE

  112. @tascia: you are quite right, the sham of Cif was exposed a long time ago but it's worth repeating surely for the sake of driving another nail into its well deserved coffin.

  113. BB:

    Bitey sounds like an incarnation of my own personal cyberstalkers..... now, not only am I apparently a rabid 'anti-semite' but according to one of our dear ScheissWatch friends, I'ma 'homophobe' too!

    God, ain't the internet a lovely place ;)

    And these liccle bully-types do like to go after women in particular I've noticed.

    My weakness is my rage and honesty, yours and Monatana's are you rage, honesty and having a child.

    Fucking fucked up fuckers is all I can say.


    I hate the empty fridge realisation ;(

  114. This comment has been removed by the author.

  115. Hank: :-) Hello.

    Gaydar..whoops, sorry, Gaylurker who is a woman apparently, has just popped out of the Candy Bar for a spot of cyber-bullying and is really a very obedient little troll, do you need a new pet from ScheissWatch by any chance?

    They come in all sorts of trendy perpetually offended colours shapes and sizes, but generally bark in a very monotone fashion. I have three already, that's enough for me, but if you have no room at your place I can accommodate one more if necessary ;)

  116. @Gaylurker:

    My father was a miner and my mother was a factory worker

    Well, we only have your word for it, but I think you've been watching too much Little Britain sweetheart. You are a girl, right?

    What is your problem?

  117. Hello to anyone who's about. La Rit, I don't think I've seen you that pissed off before. I'll read back.

  118. Hey Habib.

    Yes, I am pissed off.

    I am mighty pissed off with the ridiculous slander of my good name being dragged through the mud by someone who is being a twat basically.

    Anyway, I'm off away for the weekend in about an hour and I haven't even packed my bag.... just about to jump in the bath and wake up.... ;-)

  119. Habib:

    What's your excuse for being awake?

  120. K off now... the taxi's here ;)

    Laters all....