23 October 2010


There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
-George Santayana


  1. Morning All. ( well, not here. )

    Montana, ah yes, Santayana. Elitist, materialist and naturalist philosopher.Brilliant man, read much of his stuff. Good quote here. Another is " Only the dead have seen the end of war."

    Those UTs going to the meetup, just remember, our Vaginas are deeper than most. Hopefully another good party for yoos.

    James, the Evil Empire has been rightfully vanquished once again. The NY Yankees are out. Can schadenfreude be joyous? Mine is certainly that. For others info, the Yankees average salary is over 8M, compared to the Texas Rangers at under 2M. No claim to benefits for either side, but it's nice to see that the greenback will not always win. Not only that, but it's good to see teams other than the perennial contenders (read rich, larger cities.) in the hunt.

    OK folks, out with the dog once more. Later.

  2. Oh, yes, Santayana.

    I liked Abraxas.

    And She's Not There.

  3. Hi AB--I liked that too. And also the Mahavishnu Orchestra. But right now it's SRV 'Texas Flood.'

  4. Boudican

    I had forgotten all about the Mahavishnu Orchestra until recently.

    And Bebop Deluxe.

    I'll get the waders out and sift through the floodwater.

  5. Atomboy--You goin to the meetin'? Sorry, I can't remember where you live. And you have many 'selves', as you have said. Remembering the Mahavishnu Orchestra some what dates you, may want to be cautious with this kind of info, it could spoil your chances of CiF glory.

  6. james - I am not Jimmy Carr

    I am, however, pretty convinced that Jimmy Carr listens to PM on R4, as that was where I got it from.


  7. Hi Philippa--Bon jour.

    What do you make of this Rooney thing? Seems to me a ploy of ransom, although I don't see Fergie and Gill normally taking this kind of threat lightly. Hard to figure why they acquiesced to this now.

  8. Boudican

    No, I rarely venture into the wider world, which I see through a mirror Sellotaped to a long stick, to reach the very high windows here.

    Mostly, it seems to be sky out there.

    I meant remember more in the sense of, "Oh, yes, I stumbled across them on the internet and remember my much older siblings and friends mentioning them from their childhood."

    Or like, "Oh, I remember doing the First World War in history at school."

    [And I could have got away with it, too, if it hadn't been for that pesky Boudican].

    Which reminds me, in other news just in, Quisling Clegg has landed the part of Scrappy Doo in the next Scooby Doo film.

  9. PS Is Jimmy Carr the gay one with glasses or is that his brother?

  10. boudican - ave! the rooney saga has been particularly unedifying, even for a story involving the words 'premiership footballer', 'contract negotiations' and 'manchester united'.

    if you wanted to double your money, surely there are better ways to negotiate than actually saying 'i want to leave'. and then backtracking - which makes him look like a numpty. i mean, i can understand he might not be happy, and not very bright, but christ, his agent should have known better.

    i do wonder how the fans will greet him when he plays again - because he looks particularly mercenary now (and that's compared to, well, footballers, so...)

    however - one point in rooney's favour, possible - this could be seen as a successful two fingers up to SAF - being publicly contradicted, having to have emergency meetings, and then shelling out a shitload of money. rooney maybe making it clear that he isn't to be fucked around by SAF or the club. which may have changed things in rooney's favour inside the club structure, but in terms of the wider perception (particularly for the supporters, who didn't need this right now), a bit of an own goal.

  11. Have just been browsing the groans coverage of the 'leaks' - wikileaks own site must be beseiged as can't get their search pages to open. Its here if anyone else wants to try.

  12. Philippa--On the money methinks with the mercenary angle, and I don't see how the supporters will warm to him after this debacle. Unless he pots a double in his first game back.

    As to your second point, I'm not sure players should have much influence on personnel matters. Inmates loose and thinking. Jeesus, can't have that. They absolutely have more clout than they ever did previously.

  13. Bed for me. Night/morning All.

  14. Mornin' all ;)

    Got to work today. Just saying hello and waving (not raving)

    Back later. ;)

  15. Good morning.

    Haven't the energy to look at the Iraq evidence yet, and I'm told wikileaks is proving hard to get this morning.

    Is there any good news, anywhere?

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  18. @MsChin
    Yes, I'm still exceedingly handsome annd it Saturday.
    How about that for a double-whammy of unrivalled good news ?

    That was Cheech and Chong, fool

  19. BW

    That does it for me :-)

    And I rather like Cheech & Chong.

  20. God I think I'm still pished.

  21. Haven't the energy to look at the Iraq evidence yet

    I don't think anything will surprise you MsC - depress you yes, but it mostly vindicates what we'd already suspected was going on. Any last tuft of moral high ground being hung on to by the US/UK cheerleaders for the war has finally been wrenched from their sweaty grasp though. Probable war crime territory, although very unlikely anyone will be held accountable.

  22. That's absolutely ace, Bitters! Love it.

  23. Must be off to get me self together, so see you later.

  24. BW - Good find - but what was John Travolta doing on that Tube ?. Didn't look like he was enjoying it either.

    And don't get me started on SHREK.

    Phillipa If he thinks he has got one over on SAF, he really needs to be looking out for the knives - because they will surely come !

  25. Morning, for all those going to the demo, I hope the weather in Sheffield is better than it is here and the turnout is massive.

    I wonder if we will see anything about it on the news.

    I would have thought there would be something big in London, actually wasn't there something planned for the day of the CSR?

  26. Right - off to meet MsC and the Princess and trudge the streets.

    Jenn - weather has been a bit iffy here but looks like it's cheering up a bit now. Demos going on all over the country today.


  27. good luck the marchers!

    can we expect updates?

  28. Enjoy your march! Hope there's a good turnout.

  29. Heheh... Just posted this on Whaddya.

    Very strange...

    The Rowson cartoon is still credited to Steve Bell on the Comments page and on its own page after 12 hours.

    Martin Rowson himself has posted:

    Miss! Miiiiisssss! It's not fair, Miss! Steven's been copying my work, Miss! Make him stop, Miss, make him stop!

    It's just possible that that may get their attention. Otherwise, I'll be reduced to rousing the mods by writing c........

    love and peace

    Martin Rowson (aka Steve Bell)

    Are the Guardian staff on strike? I think we should be told.

  30. @IanG

    Wow, a new concept: being off-topic on UT!

  31. @Spike said Wow, a new concept: being off-topic on UT!

    Glad you liked it. You should try it more often.

  32. Afternoon all

    With you in spirit, Sheffield marchers.

    Only just heard about the Wikileaks thingy on the radio. No surprises, really. the equivalent of 31 civillians being killed per day between the invasion and December 2009...

    Fucking fuckers.

  33. Sorry Chin/Sheffield Comrades clocked the message too late to make the demo. Shame on me.

    Since things are plainly going to get worse I'll have to get some new demo boots and me paint pot and banner poles sorted.. I used to wear safety boots (steel toe protectors) during the Thatcher years (police nags are heavy beasts on your toes) so I'll start thinking about shopping for the gear of protest.

    I hope that folk there understood the need to hold Sheffield LibDems to account. Folk ought to start lobbying the local/regular LibDem political meetings.

    The Nuremberg defence ("..I was only following orders/the official line..") is not acceptable when the weak and innocent are attacked.

    Local people really ought to be encouraged to call Clegg and the bastards responsible for his election to account. Lots of posters/messages around Sheffield, and wherever the shit appears, demanding..... "RECALL CLEGG NOW"... "CLEGG HAS NO MANDATE" might make a good start.

    I have no time for 'Rupert' Prem footy but I did like the idea of the fans turning up outside wanker Rooney's pad and letting their feelings be known..Anybody know where MR C has his constituency house??

    I hope that people see that new times need new responses. There is no reason that contemporary politics can't now be reasonably personalised and directed at the lack of integrity and conscience shown by the latest shits masquerading as politicians.

    I would personally like to see the organised collection of used continence pads and devices, form sufferers with bowel bladder difficulties, and their tipping on the lawns of MP's supporting the harassment of the sick and disabled benefit claimants. Those without conscience need to be identified and challenged.

    We have a lot of linguistic talent here on UT - UT members here ought to start thinking of catchy/good banner headlines - there will be plenty of protests to come. Post em on the thread and then copy them to the Resources file at the top the page if you please.

    I'm sorry I wasn't there in Sheffield with you comrades. But a sincere thanks from me and my family for raising a note of protest on all of or behalfs and especially for those more unfortunate than ourselves. You are not only three class posters you are three stars and I respect you all.

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  35. Duplicated 14:06 post deleted. System error.

  36. Afternoon all


    Rooney may be feeling smug with himself right know but he's burnt his bridges with his fans,he's set a precadent which the game can't afford to allow to be repeated by anyone,he's made enemies in the media and probably worst of all for him he's made an enemy of Sir Alex
    Ferguson.As the old saying goes he may have won the battle but could well have lost the war.Hope all's well with you.

  37. Hello All

    Wikileaks - further exposing the failed morality we are up against - sickening.

    We need some citizen justice cos there ain't any other kind .

  38. There's no justice. There's just us...

    Good luck Sheff lasses. Safe home.

  39. Boudican - ".. Good quote here. Another is " Only the dead have seen the end of war...."

    I liked that. It stimulated:

    "Only the blind can't see the insincerity of Clegg"

    "Only the deaf can't hear the insincerity of Clegg"

    "Only the brain dead don't want Clegg recalled"

    Personally I want to see Clegg et al on stick or from a rope but I need a strategy to get him/there.

    To all Comrade UT's

    We really ought to think about the value of a collective voice via a UT cut and paste footnote to all of various postings on the Gaurd?/Indy

    If all UT's added footnote/aside ....someting like "{RECALL MANDATELESS CLEGG NOW) (CLEGG IS DISPICABLE AND WITHOUT MANDATE)" to every post on every subject they posted on the Guard you would be doing a public service on behalf of your fellow citizens.

    We really do need a collective response. Our voices alone are lost in the background noise of modern life. United our voices/words may just start to be heard...fine the right set of words and we could see the catch on and take off elsewhere too...

    Perhaps we can post suggestions for a collective protest footnote and then have a monthly vote to establish what we would all agree to add to our posts elsewhere???

  40. "...fine the right set of words and we could see the catch on and take off elsewhere too..."

    Lets try that again:

    ..find the right set of words and we could see them catch on and take off elsewhere....

    If only every face-book message in the UK ended with the words "fuck off Clegg then I think he and his Sheffield political agent would be discomforted.

    Just think of the educative value of "Osbourne is beneficiary/trustee of a tax avoidance scam" repeated in footnotes to thousands and thousands of messages.

    If nothing else we would be helping our neighbours understand the realities of modern life.

    These bastards really do insult the intelligence and they deserve no mercy and no let up. They and those supporting them should be pursued and treated to some of the abuse they cavalierly heap on others. Decent folk are going to have to get off their arses to stop their vile progress.

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  42. Paul,

    I've just been reading this months When Saturday Comes and there's a photo special on the legendary Spurs double side of 1960.

    One of the photos is Cliff Jones and the late, great John White collecting their wage packet of ₤17 6d from a booth manned by Bill Nicholson.

    The contrast with this weeks Rooney shenanigans could not be more extreme.

  43. afternoon

    Back from the demo - not a bad turn out considering the weather. Princess, her partner and stalwart Mum (excellent, take no shit Yorkshirewoman), Ms C and an old comrade, Tom joined the fray. Lots of calls for a general strike - some good speakers, incuding my MP, Paul Blomfield, although will reserve judgement on him until the shit really hits the fan.

    Have put a couple of pics up in the gallery.

  44. Good stuff Sheff thanks again.

  45. Excellent stuff, Sheff. Will look at the pix in a min.

  46. PCC & others with interest in nitty gritty economics

    The Socialist Economic Bulletin (Ken Livingstone's Econ Bulletin) is worth a read on the budget proposals:Socialist Economic Bulletin

  47. leni - you have email re the ESA guides.

    Re the recent paypal discussion:

    The following was sent to me from PayPal:

    "Need to send money to someone? It's free to send money to anyone in the UK with PayPal.

    *Personal payments within the UK are free when funded by bank account or PayPal balance. Payments within the UK funded by credit or debit cards incur a fee of 3.4% plus 20p. International payments incur an additional currency conversion and cross border charge."

  48. Sheff,

    great stuff, keep on campaigning and marching. There's a depressing article about the impact of the cuts on Liverpool and the entirely apolitical youth of the city.

    On a cheerier note, today is the 2nd round of the Scottish Cup where some of the Highland league and non-league sides get a crack at the league teams and as ever there's some great names:

    - Spartans
    - Forres Mechanics
    - Wigtown & Bladnoch
    - Golspie Sutherland
    - Threave
    - Bo'ness United
    - Cove Rangers
    - Dalbeattie Star

    and my personal favourite:

    - Keith

  49. BB (my most favourite wigged person in the entire world).......is it possible to lodge a (small) claim for damages/costs against the Dept for Work & Pensions in the Small Claims Court??

    Say a quantum merit or /£5,000/£500 or whichever the least/most for advice/support to an ESA appellant


  50. Duke - interesting to note that Leeds has been identified as a Northern City to watch to see how the cuts start to effect folk.

    FFS - Leeds has an active mini(but still substantial) financial services sector in Insurance etc. Typical of the Guard/BBC types.

  51. BB should have said in the event of a successful IncapBenefit/ESA appeal....

    Awkward squad members always like to be optimistic and to try to think ahead - it's called whistling in the dark and keeping spirits up.

  52. Sheff -your photo "J├╝disches Museum, Berlin"

    What are the collected discs in the trench?? - pained faces?? what material/colours were they??

    Can you do a magnification from your copy of the picture and post it??

  53. BB actually we'd settle for £50 or even a £5 (given to charity) for the precedence.

    Well enough off this talking/rambling to myself

    laters all.

  54. I really ought to share the following before I go:

    "DWP’s multi-billion private sector handouts
    17 October 2010

    The scale of the DWP’s infiltration by the private sector is revealed in a list of the top 100 suppliers to the department in 2009 –10 who, between them, walked away with almost £4.6 billion of public funds.

    At the top of the list is a company few will ever have heard of, property management company Telereal Trillium who received a staggering £783 million of taxpayer’ cash.

    Next in line was American computer giants Hewlett Packard, who took almost £657 million out of the department.

    Further down the list at number six, job brokers A4E walked away with over £150 million of public money, even though the Public Accounts Committee reported last month that A4E had:

    “achieved on average less than half what they promised in the contracts they signed with the Department. Against an average target of 36% of participants into work, A4E has to date found work for 15% of mandatory participants.”

    Equally dismaying for many claimants will be the discovery that Atos Origin also pocketed over £150 million from the public purse In Atos’ case the cash is for carrying out medicals whose findings are overturned in over 50% of appeals relating to incapacity benefit and over 40% of appeals relating to employment and support allowance.

    Sadly, ministers planning to slash public spending are unlikely to be looking here for savings when it is so much easier to simply take cash from sick and disabled claimants instead.

    The full list of companies is available from the www.kable.co.uk"

  55. Deano

    If my memory serves, you can't sue a gov dept for money, it has to be by way of judicial review. Again, it is not really an area I have come across before so I shall have to check.

    But if you win a case against them in the Tribunal, I am pretty sure that the Tribunal would be able to direct them to make the payments backdated...

  56. Next week I'm going to sign on under some new names than I can talk to myself without the fear/risk of frightening the horses or scaring away UT's international following.

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  58. BB - Yea I understand that payments are backdated.

    Can we charge the bastards interest - the law usually favours that?

    Ok if not he DWP how about Atos??

    We would aim to make a claim just on the brink of the legal costs of defending. I'd love to think that thousands of claimants lucky enough to win could take a few shillings off the bastards on behalf of those who lost.

  59. Deano

    I've stuck a more detailed pic up in the gallery for you. They are faces cut out of metal discs. I heard that sometimes you're allowed to walk on them but not sure if thats accurate - anyway I didn't - couldn't have, even if I'd been allowed to.

  60. Cheers Sheff - really moving Art.

  61. For Information - I don't recall the Guard covering this story:

    "Bodyguard and deportation firm bids for back-to-work contracts
    17 October 2010

    A company which specialise in, amongst other things, detaining and deporting illegal immigrants and providing bodyguards to the rich and famous is bidding for contracts to get claimants back to work.

    With almost 600,000 employees worldwide G4S claims to be the second largest private employer in the world. It provides security for a massive range of different areas, from protection for wealthy people and their property to delivering cash to banks. They also provide ‘secure detention and escorting of people who are not lawfully entitled to remain in a country’.

    In the UK, G4S has over 40,000 employees and boasts that it provides services to 59 FTSE 100 companies and most government departments.

    G4S is currently bidding to provide the new Work Programme which is to replace a wide range of current Back to Work projects, including Pathways to Work. The multinational is looking for partners to join it in its bid and assures potential collaborators that ‘we guarantee access for jobseekers to tens of thousands of meaningful, suitable jobs both through our own vacancies and those of our corporate partners.’

    Whether those jobs will involve working in detention centres, deporting asylum seekers or acting as bodyguards or multi-millionaires is not made clear

  62. BB

    Have just read your 6:53 pm post on Waddya yesterday about cooking veggie meals for your lad.

    Couple of thoughts.

    1) If he's not eating the same food as everyone else, I'd make him cook his own damn food. And do the washing up. (Yes, I am bitter as this was the way I was raised: you'll eat what you're given, and you'll like it.) ;-)

    2) Quorn is going to turn out to be Soylent Green.

    3) You sound like a great mum.

  63. Deano - G4S is the "security" company who have just killed that poor bloke, yes?

    I can't believe it's come down to governments hiring private security companies, not just for this sort of thing but also the bastard mercenaries in AfPak and Iraq.


  64. Paul/leni/Jen/PCC/Moonshine/IanG/ et al - small comfort but better than nothing:

    "Atos docs condemn their own work
    15 October 2010

    Prospect, a trade union for professionals including 135 Atos doctors, has condemned as ‘wholly unrealistic’ the target of 10 claimants a day that medics are expected to assess for eligibility for employment and support allowance (ESA).

    The claim was made by the union in evidence to the independent Harrington review of the work capability assessment, the test used to decide whether a claimant qualifies for ESA and, if so, which group they should be placed in.

    According to the union each claimant should be treated as an individual “not just a checklist exercise to be undertaken in a standard set time”. But at present, health professionals consider that “the 10 or more claimants they are expected to see in a day is wholly unrealistic.”

    The statement from the union also claims that “there is little flexibility to increase the time for more complex cases such as stroke victims with combined physical and cognitive sequelae or claimants with multiple sclerosis or Parkinson's disease.”

    Benefits and Work will be asking for a full copy of the evidence given by Prospect to Professor Harrington once his review is complete. Members with complex conditions or combined mental and physical health conditions may wish to use it as evidence at their appeal hearing if they consider that their WCA was too short to gain an accurate picture of their condition"

  65. thauma - share your concerns.

    Gotta dash now - have finally cleared me email!


  66. No comments on it yet --

    comments will be held in a queue until they have been approved by our moderators

    in red at the top.

    Gee, how much do you suppose will make it through?

  67. Montana - my dear young miss, I am having enough difficulty sleeping as it is!

    Tell the cunt - it is possible to get a blind man up Mount Everest or to run a major Department of State. They've even bicycled (on a tandem) from John O'Groats to Lands End. All have been done by the totally blind.

    But both required considerable support cunt Grayling!

    Mungo is hiding under me bed - all the ranting these half baked evil cunts invoke!!

  68. Hiya Montana

    I absolutely don't have the stomach for that.

    And how many mods do you think they have working on a Saturday night anyway?

  69. I'm sorry about hogging UT for the last few hours.

    It's guilt. I should have been out on the demo and not ranting on here.

    Sorry folks - there may be some useful info amongst the rants though and don't forget the scroll on by finger if you found it tedious.

    Right that's definetly me last post of the day. Fucking bastards.

  70. Montana,

    you said it on the Grayling thread. I genuinely do not know how these pricks can live with themselves.

  71. ".....G4S is currently bidding to provide the new Work Programme which is to replace a wide range of current Back to Work projects, including Pathways to Work. The multinational is looking for partners to join it in its bid and assures potential collaborators that ‘we guarantee access for jobseekers to tens of thousands of meaningful, suitable jobs both through our own vacancies and those of our corporate partners.’

    That's an evil - you can be sure that if these animals ever link some of you UT people to your real life identies you will be blacklisted and may never work again

    FFS everybody wake up!

  72. evening all......

    I'm really sick and tired and fucking angry with these bastards that control our lives to fill their pockets, they don't give a shit...whether it's cuts to services, criminalising people because they're disabled, single, young, old, wotever....and if making people more desperate than they already are the bastard berlusconi remains unmoved and yet again demonstrates that he and his cohorts don't give a shit that there is an 80% higher risk of cancer in the Naples area because of the dumping of toxic waste he just friggin laughs while babies drink their mother's milk and get poisoned with dioxin.....
    the state is so violent towards people why are they so surprised when the people start to rebel...don't want to encourage violence but it seems that is the only answer to these bastards.....

  73. Evening gandolfo.

    Can I start the evening's music selection with Riot Squad's Fuck the Tories

    A more apt start I cannot think of.

  74. They're pre-modding all the comments on Graylings piece....I wonder why?

  75. evening duke.....

    nice bit of jam.......I mean as far as the governments we live under are concerned we can all eat cake.......I say Jam is better!

  76. sheff

    i got a couple of posts through...of course I had to scrap my original which was f@uck off tosser...I can't even bothered to argue with the bastards any more cos they don't give a shit what people think, all they are interested in is creating more money for themselves and their mates....I mean the tories (and certain Nulabs) are really desperate for a few extra quid aren't they....not........

  77. Gandolfo

    My immediate feelings about Graylings piece would be unprintable - even on the UT. He and the rest of the sorry crew are so completely without shame it's actually quite hard to grasp.

  78. I am amazed by the comments they are letting through, the mood is ugly and I would love to see those comments that didn't make it.

  79. hi jen...

    if i was a mod I'd let them all through.......

  80. sheff, jen et al
    mods have deserted the ship it's a free for all....be careful out there.....

  81. hi gandolfo

    Me too, I might even add a few of my own but the comments I am suprised got through are those that boldly state that he is a liar (which he is) I would expect them to be modded on a normal thread.

    Good on the mods, for once.

  82. "Chomskyfan:
    So, the "better off" will have their sickness benefits time limited. By better off, you mean a couple that have more than £90 a week to live off including mortgage payments. People who have paid NI contributions up to falling too ill to work. Now thrown to the the wolves. Fuck off Grayling you tory tosser along with the neoliberal Nu Labour scum like Hutton, Purnell and Field."

    nice....brief and to the point

  83. Hello everyone: my word, you have been busy today
    both on CIF and on the streets.
    A bloody good show all round as ambassadors for our humble site. Well done. I feel like a bit of a shirker in comparison.
    In my defense, our boiler is on the blink and the freezer door stubbornly refuses to remain shut despite the persuasion of many yards of gaffer tape!

    Btw: did anyone catch "Golem's" latest?

    These banking shits make the Mafia look positively ethical.

    As for the Grayling drivel, I was almost tempted to go back and post on CIF and offer to hand out the sick buckets.

  84. oh.......it's been deleted........surprise surprise

  85. Useful and good stuff on redminers ESA related link:Redminers ESA link

  86. Look for Elizagregory's post on that thread. She(?) said this quoting CG...."
    @CG And this time-limiting will only apply to the better off who have the potential, with the right help and support, to make the journey back to work.

    @EG This is an out and out lie. The limit will only apply to those in the "work-related" group,....
    " and so on. Well argued as are a lot of the responses that demolish their case.

  87. Now we see why they have taken the Grayling article off pre mod, they have started removing comments that had been pre approved, someone at Tory HQ must have had a word.

    The fucking Guardian has just reached an all time low.

  88. ""..Since the millennium the bill for incapacity benefit alone has cost almost £135bn.."

    Mr Grayling it was the post 1979 destruction of the manufacturing base of the UK by Mrs Thatcher that started and fueled the rise in Incapacity among the people .

    Worse still, she and the mad monk started a drain on our all of our futures that is inestimable in the thousands if not billions of £billions we have had to pay. £135bn is the tip of the Thatcher iceberg.

    The worst kind of sickness that exists in the UK today is in the minds of people like yourself, and your colleagues who assume that everybody is like yourself, and on the make.

    You do not seem able to understand that there is something simply sordid about Chancellor Bullingdon Osborne, himself a beneficiary of a tax avoidance trust fund, leading a baying mob of disability deniers intent on targeting the weak and disabled in order to further line the pockets of their bankster friends.

    Shame on you sir, may you one day suffer an infirmity which will cause you to reflect on the evil you peddle".

  89. to sum up, so far then, it seems nobody believes grayling.

    he'll be out of job next year anyway, this attempt to cut the structural deficit over four years is completely bonkers, i reckon it will actually cost more than it saves, as the economy shrinks and tax revenues fall, and benefits payments increase with growing unemployment, and we'll be in the absurd situation where this load of idiots are borrowing more than they were before they started the cuts.

    the term "ship of fools" comes to mind.

    (From the Grayling thread on CIF)

    I've mentioned this before but at the risk of repeating myself; our politicians maybe complete bastards but they are not stupid and they must have cottoned on to the fact that the internet works in their favour.

    The logic is not "Rocket Science": The reason people aren't out on the streets is 'cos they are all furiously tapping away on their laptops and exercising their freedom of speech on whatever blog will listen.

    BTW, I'm as guilty of this insanity as anyone else but I was never under any illusion that CIF or The Untrusted was going to change the World or any other website for that matter.

    The divide and rule principle applies to cyberspace just as much as it did before the arrival of the internet, if not more so.

    Anyway, that's my take; feel free to take a pop!

  90. Well some of us UTers have done both today Chekhov - taken to the streets and vented our spleen in cyberspace. There's room for both. Little acorns and all that...

  91. @Sheff: I know and I take my hat off to you. I wasn't saying your efforts were pointless. You know me better than that!

  92. @chekhov you make a good point but in France they have the internet yet they still take to the streets. But I take your point, the internet cuts both ways - we can now communicate/connect to raise a campaign but we also think we are doing something when unless it transforms into direct action it pretty useless. I count myself firmly in that 'useless' group btw.

    I was looking at the tabloid sites to see if there were any benfit scrounger items. Only IDS on the Express site. I was wondering if we could make a formal complaint to the PCC or some overseeing body when newspapers disparage certain groups without evidence.

  93. While I'm about it can we make life 'uncomfortable' for the LibDems in some way? The astounding U turns in many policies must make their rank and file ashamed to be connected. Like NuLabour I now want these slimeballs turfed out at the first opportunity. Local or nation elections will do for a start.

  94. I wasn't demonstrating last week because I'm in the sticks and had no bloody fuel ! Got 25l today at last . Pop to see Graything ...

  95. btw: I wasn't suggesting that the internet had castrated itself. On the contrary, you only have to witness stuff that goes "viral" on Youtube to know how influential messages can take hold.
    I just don't think we have worked out how subversive the messages can be and how to phrase them.

  96. @chekhov you make a good point but in France they have the internet yet they still take to the streets.
    Good point. The French had the guts to chop the heads off their aristocrats and good for them.
    If only we could summon the cojones to do the same on this side of the Channel!

  97. I can't understand why Ciffers are not more upset by the shenanigans on the Grayling thread.

    Your comment is scrutinised by the mods and passes all the 'Community Guidelines' and therefore gets printed.

    10 minutes later the guidelines are out the window and you get randomly deleted.

    It is a fucking disgrace.

  98. Hi All

    Just come in after spending day with foster son and wife. Wifey is OBE - for services to Inland Revenue. Wifey quite a lot older than son - comes from Manchester - now both living in Sussex. Interesting story but unable to post coherently having had 2 glasses of wine - I am alcohol intolerant.

    Thanks Deano Stiff coffee on table - try to communicate later ! xx

  99. chekhov

    Read analysis recently claiming on line fora allow us to protest without commitment to action - all mouth and trousers type thing.

  100. Reflections on the Iraqi war logs from Layla Anwar

    I love you Wikileak, maybe now I can sleep with a little peace.

  101. Hello Leni; Re - your last post...sorry but I don't have clue what you are on about...must have missed something!

  102. jennifera30 said...
    I can't understand why Ciffers are not more upset by the shenanigans on the Grayling thread.

    Your comment is scrutinised by the mods and passes all the 'Community Guidelines' and therefore gets printed.

    10 minutes later the guidelines are out the window and you get randomly deleted.

    It is a fucking disgrace.

    That's why we are all over here!

  103. Evening all

    Heard this brilliant track earlier from Lori Williams.Here is the link and click on the track called LITTLE SUNFLOWER

  104. chekhov

    now coffeed up. I was thinking about the French - do they post less on internet fora and so retain energy for real protest ?

    Read the Grayling thing - have to admit I have abandoned reasoned argument and resorted to scoffing. These people in charge are blind and ignorant of the reality of much of modern Britain.

  105. @Leni: err..ok I think I get the gist!

  106. @Leni:

    In Texas, the expression is, "He's all hat, no cattle."

  107. Holy shit! Another bit of verbal sputum from Grayling on Cif???

  108. I don't know what "verbal sputum" means, Montana but even without that knowledge it seems a pretty accurate assessment of the drivel the lower pond life the likes of Grayling expect us to swallow!

  109. Sputum is that stuff that you cough up when you have bronchitis, Chekhov.

    It's actually a slightly different draft of the same article. It's still obscene, though.

  110. @Montana: "Obscene" is an appropriate adjective.
    I fear you are preaching to the converted.
    Did you see "Golem's" last post?

  111. In http://golemxiv-credo.blogspot.com/case anyone missed it:

  112. Sorry if I made a pigs ear of the link. Let me know if it didn't work and I'll have another go!

  113. What's the betting that a third version of Graylings propaganda will appear on CIF at around 6.00am UK time.In the meantime here's some Barry White for anyone who's still awake.

  114. Hello Paul, are you doing the "grave yard" shift yet again?