11 October 2010

11/10/10

Paris, 1889
Those who don't know how to weep with their whole heart, dont' know how to laugh, either.
-Golda Meir

115 comments:

  1. hmmm...quiet on here this morning. Heavy weekends everyone?

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  2. morning!
    quiet weekend trying to shift last of cold. and am on a day off today (bank holiday in USA so little point me being in and trying to ring the states). ao am taking it verrrrrry eeeeeasy.....

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  3. Paul

    It seems to be that it matters where you are, geographically, for how soon IB claimants are called in for reassessment by ESA points, which seems to be have been going on in this area for a while (although without it anywhere saying that that’s what they were doing) – there were some areas which were targeted for starting this – sort of target practise, and then for others to follow.

    Yes, I have come across accounts of people going through the wretchedness of the appeal process, only a few months later to be called in again by Atos, and failed again; so that does seem to be happening, or at least in some places. I would call that outright persecution.

    Going through the worries and stresses of the appeal process when someone isn’t feeling well, helps nobody’s health, so they definitely aren’t going to be in a better condition afterwards.

    While even if someone does have the right amount of points, Atos can just put on the report that they don’t have that problem – no points. It’s enough to push anyone over the brink, along with the way in which it is done – with no warning. How is anyone going to react to receiving a letter saying that as of last week they no longer have an income?

    If they want to crack down on benefit fraud, they only need to focus on all of these fictional medical reports being produced for bonuses. Exposing the way in which this process is only increasing benefit fraud – by the government insiders.

    None of them seem bothered that there are real people at the other end of their malpractice.

    Leni

    It is the overall lack of understanding around benefits displayed by this gvt. that amazes me.

    Well, Freud and Purnell did boast that they knew nothing about benefits – which somehow qualified them for knowing all about it!

    I think it’s something like the Father Brown story where someone is killed by a hammer dropped from a high tower, and Father Brown says he understands how the chap could have done it without fully realising the consequences – because far below the people were like insects, and from that distance could be perceived by the mind as not real people.

    Those in government who make these decisions show no ability to understand the impact of their decisions upon those dots moving around on the horizon – and so can remain wholly detached about the reality of the effects of their oh-so-clever-to-them theory of curing welfare dependency.

    Which is simple (to them) – remove someone’s income and, in desperation, they will sign on at the Job Centre, find that they have imagined their condition all along, or its limitations, and start making lots of money.

    The small details of reality – like at the same time the same government is (very) busy cutting jobs and undermining wages – that there are many applicants for every available job – that the job schemes are completely useless junk – that there is rarely any viable support for the disabled to work, even if they feel that they can - and that the really unwell genuinely aren’t up to it, whatever their invented medical report says... all passes them by.

    I have long observed that real intelligence is nothing to do with paper qualifications – it’s more to do with the better ability to apply common sense and empathy.

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  4. Philippa - afraid the other person doesn't want the book either.

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  5. no probs, thanks for asking around!

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  6. Looks like WADDYA is going to order a pair of wrought-iron gates to keep out the horrible, filthy masses.

    It seems they will close it down/shut the gates at times when they think they might be invaded, which is basically evening and weekends, when they are not using their employers' time to spill their brainz.

    As one international poster with a giddy social life declares: "Yes, why not shut it down evenings and weekends? I don't post then."

    Fortress Waddya

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  7. @AB

    Yes, I've been watching that with a kind of disgusted fascination. Who the fuck do these people think they are? A sodding golf club committee?

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  8. PeterJ

    Absolutely right.

    The problem is, I have wondered why none of them ever sees how grotesque, insular and divisive their behaviour is, let alone the offensive cultural overtones it expresses, but I do not see any of them having the self-analytical skills to see themselves for what they really are.

    WADDYA is a bit like watching an endless loop of edited highlights from Hale and Pace and Alas, Smith and Jones.

    Squirmingly, sphincter-clenchingly embarrassing, with the breathless hope that the participants will see what they have become, with no hope that it will ever happen.

    "It's like a kind of torture, to have to watch this show", as Waldorf and Statler sang.

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  9. AB/Peter

    Just posted on waddya re closing the thread weekends and evenings - just shows how parochial the mindset is.

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  10. I have been having a fairly uninterrupted run as tnetennba and it seems strange that as soon as I post this:

    JessicaReed

    And when we have a seperate chat thread, people who want to post during the week-ends could take it there.

    So, that's all done and dusted, then, other than getting the IT crowd to press the buttons?

    Sounds like the best solution to me.

    Why don't you make each of the threads invitation only?

    You could allow access to the regulars and allow them to let in new users, perhaps with an email facility for people to request membership.

    Like getting into a night-club - well, according to films, anyway. I don't go myself.

    _______

    my posting rights get withdrawn and I am banned.

    Of course, you could say it is coincidence and clever Pluck happened to be trawling through banned users and just happened to spot something dodgy.

    However, what is even more fishy is that this has happened about half a dozen times lately and always just after I have posted something which either JessicaReed or NatalieHanman could be assumed to view with a pouty face and a waggy finger of disapproval.

    Are they really so desperately insecure and scared that their little rickety structure could so easily be wobbled and toppled into tiny little smashed pieces?

    Woohoo!

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  11. PeterJ - lol. EnglishKermit is particularly annoying with his supercilious decisions about whose posts should be allowed to stand.

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  12. @Atomboy:

    ”…Are they really so desperately insecure and scared that their little rickety structure could so easily be wobbled and toppled into tiny little smashed pieces?”

    LOL. It is pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things, isn’t it?

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  13. I think unexceptional has just nailed it:

    Blows brains out because internet doesn't do what I want it to

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  14. SwiftyBoy

    Pretty well anything taken in isolation is insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

    That doesn't stop it being fun, though.

    I cannot put it more hysterically than this, though, from EnglishHermit:

    Jessica

    The person in question has already stated that it is his intention to bring down this website. If he can find a means to do it, he will. Maybe a DOS attack. This weekend he said he was going to flood the rest of CIF. I don't know if he did or not, I wasn't prepared to spend the time checking.

    He has already corrupted the recommendations system so much as to render the figures meaningless and if he can do it, you can be sure that others have been doing it as well. What is rather more serious is that the number of users of this site or on a particular thread cannot be accurately known because of his and maybe others multiple logins.

    If I were selling advertising space in a contracting market and with many competitors I would be be concerned that the integrity of the statistics for visitors to this site is inviolable. I am sure that your competitors will be.

    If I were in your position, I would be concerned enough to check with my legal department to see if the interloper has broken the law (Misuse of Computers Act 1990). I'm not a lawyer yet my reading of the Act would indicate the strong possibility that he has. It's not going to cost you anything is it?

    There will no doubt be voices raised in protest, the same voices who thought the prosecution of the airport tweet man was excessive. I would answer that it is necessary to make examples of these idiots to deter others from doing the same.

    Besides, Giyus has declared war upon the Guardian, in his own words. Are you really going to lie down and surrender?

    ____________

    For anyone wondering what "Corrupting the recommendation system" might mean - obviously, the mind reels with images of Jack Bauer with his little satchel containing coloured pencils, protractor, chewing gum, Tipp-Ex and sea-shells - it is simply this:

    Refresh page
    Recommend
    Refresh page
    Recommend

    Repeat.

    How the West was lost when technology overcame the cabbage patch rebellion.

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  15. PS Actually, that above post is so sapping of the will to carry on pretending that you are dealing with credible people, rather than the love-child of Neil and Rick, that even the mighty GIYUS will probably think it not worth bothering any more.

    I have seen toddlers with a tighter grip on reality.

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  16. I see that someone has kindly now rescued my comment of 10.54 from the jaws of the spam folder.

    Really - surely by now it’s possible to design a spam folder – in fact, I know that is - so that once someone’s passed by the blog manager (whoever/whatever), they stay passed.

    If it’s that necessary to have one (which here doesn’t appear to be the case), they should at least put in one which functions with some rationale!

    Saturday evening it let me in twice with no problem, after been excluded earlier; and then I was thrown back into the spam folder, which then also cuts off my connection to the site (I now know that if all I get is blogger can't perform my request, it means it's gone into spam)… and when there’s nobody available to retrieve it, it suddenly, maybe some hours later, appears weirdly in the midst of a former conversation.

    As I like to think that this isn’t entirely personal – do watch out for anyone's earlier comments magically appearing later.

    Why is ‘progress’ so often the opposite?!

    Has anyone been in battle with the new ‘improved’ bbc iplayer?


    Waddya probably isn't that world influencing. In fact, the world is full of billions who've never even heard of it, and get by just fine without knowing its opinions; or at least they're not any worse off for its absence.

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  17. PPS

    Giyus has declared war upon the Guardian

    Is there anything in these seven words which is actually true, taken in isolation or together?

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  18. Sheff

    How do you manage that calm reasonable approach thingy you do?:-)

    Atomboy

    Forgot about Giyus who's a law unto himself.Call me naive but i do think an amnesty for people like MF,Hank,BW-dunno whether you're one of the 'banned'-is part of the solution.Especially with regard to bringing more political balance on the serious threads.Would probably mean a certain degree of 'turning the other cheek' on waddya but IMO that's a small price to pay for getting you guys back as legit posters.

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  19. I must get off waddya....its sapping my soul and its impossible to talk to Bru - as far as she's concerned I'm in some kind of enemy camp and simply responding to her in a reasonable way constitutes provocation and is probably treasonable too. Hey ho, mea culpa - never should have gone there in the first place.

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  20. Hi All

    Will have to look at waddya.

    so suggestions for writers and people panels will now come only from members of the waddya club ?

    Astonishing just how possessive some people have become over waddya - people will often defend something unimportant whilst remaining indifferent to major problems around them.

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  21. Paul

    How do you manage that calm reasonable approach thingy you do?:-)

    Old age and experience Paul - not wisdom....I haven't reached that yet unfortunately. Which is why I really need to get off waddya!

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  22. Its always fairly amusing i think, something pretty trivial has managed to become a serious disaster with all sorts of solutions being proposed, on top of the above there was MIE threatening to call in his lawyer a few days ago. I dont know why they dont just make a chat thread, i dont see why its so complicated.

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  23. It could be argued that those posts constitute a 'personal attack'.

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  24. Giyus the bringer of war will still post I think

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  25. Weekend shut-downs eh ?

    It could work; regulars could then use their employers' Monday morning time to have a catch up thread about weekends spent watching paint dry and generally avoiding the point
    ;-)

    @AB, Lipizanner's in pre-mod too. Weekend cull ?

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  26. @Leni:

    “…so suggestions for writers and people panels will now come only from members of the waddya club?”

    There is possibly a germ of truth in that – eminence beige Jess certainly has her “favourites”, and the Graun editorially certainly has its own “line” which it follows, usually to the point of ridicule – but the majority of the suggestions (and there are some) which get the green light tend not to come from the “usual suspects” but from a slightly wider gene pool, I think.

    @Atomboy:

    Still all sounds utterly trivial to me, mate, your reservation about taking things in “isolation” notwithstanding.

    @BW:

    Hope you're bearing up, mate.

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  27. Skimmed waddya - some still trying to cause friction - why ?

    I won't miss the place at all but some will. They could open a waddya face book thingy and drivel away among themselves.

    Some of the chit chat has been quite amusing but now much of it is vicious.

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  28. Paul

    Yes, I definitely fall within the circle of the banned but I'm afraid if they offered me an amnesty I would have to very politely tell them to shove it up their collective fundament - sideways and big end first.

    Bitterweed

    Cannot speak for anyone else, but my ban happened literally within moments of posting under JessicaReed's nose, so to speak; just as when I posted under another name on Natalie Hanman's thread - not breaking any guidelines, just not shouting myself hoarse with the brilliance of CiF and its staff and cheerleaders.

    Strangely, I do not think it is anything to do with being a banned poster operating in disguise within enemy teritory.

    I think they now just ban anyone who says anything they don't like.

    Many people will then either not post again at all (they have got rid of someone they do not want anyway) or they will sign up again with their tail between their legs and become cowed and obedient.

    I never agreed with the idea of having an online persona or reputation and never wanted the blue "C", so I actually enjoy fizzing and spluttering for awhile before being plunged into the bucket of cold water far more than maintaining a "presence."

    The site has become a joke and it is just more fun this way.

    Anyway, this won't get the baby washed, as my mother used to say.

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  29. SwiftyBoy

    Yes, I was not trying to trip you up or pick holes.

    I just meant, yes, both WADDYA and the process of going there to highlight their idiocies are both trivial and pointless.

    I am, essentially and at a very deep level, trivial.

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  30. @Atomboy:

    ”…both WADDYA and the process of going there to highlight their idiocies are both trivial and pointless…”

    Agreed. And also, I might add, the process of analysing it and discussing it over here. Err… like I am. Bugger.

    ”…I am, essentially and at a very deep level, trivial…”

    *swoons* My kinda guy.

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  31. My repeated suggestions for the promised right of reply article to the anonymous civil service article have been studiously ignored by jessicareed. After the usual pointless posts this morning about lentils and rigorous censorship the waddya thread was closed down and a new one opened. Jessica kicked off with a reference to a 'nice article' about some guy growing up gay. Sir Philip Green's report (although 'topical', 'a peg to hang an article on', 'where's the story? to quote the braindead jessica) was not mentioned.
    Since then it's been a fight to the death on YouTellUs between the luvvies and a few real people.
    Does anybody else doubt that these fucking wankers live in the real world? I've decided to just give up - there is no point in fighting it. These people are morons and Cif is a travesty.

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  32. Betty

    You'll get used to being ignored. I put a suggestion up about having pieces on how the cuts were affecting the poor - rather than just groan journos and stay at home middle class mums. Not their kind of thing it seems.

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  33. SB
    I'm doing alright mate, thanks.

    AB
    "The site has become a joke and it is just more fun this way."
    It has its benefits !

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  34. I like the way they're just arguing amongst themselves now.

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  35. Betty + Sheff

    t has become a fight to the death over something as trivial as a lollipop - while serious issues are ignored and serious posters sidelined.

    I don't think the majority of waddya regulars are interested in the poor Sheff - they're just 'other people ' aren't they ? There is a serious misunderstanding about the nature of society and interaction. The agenda has to be tightly controlled to prevent 'aberrant' voices being heard.

    Does it really matter if waddya bites the dust ?

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  36. I imagine that certain people are strenuously reporting 'abuse' on YouTellUs. This was deleted within a few minutes (although it's a statement of indisputable fact). Perhaps the conjecture is considered ad hom? Anyway, great work from the moderators - gotta protect the vacuous regulars.

    23 comments from brusselsexpats on this thread so far today (and she has already confessed that she is posting from work) - none of these comments suggested an article.

    No wonder she wants it closed on weekends - if her employer is not paying for her time-wasting, she doesn't want to know. She just wants to stop other people posting on their own time.

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  37. I actually saw my comment appear at dinner time – about my comment from this morning having then managed to appear when it was, presumably, rescued by someone – it was there – I saw it – but when I refreshed the page it was gone – so I seem to have been modded after all – maybe the spam folder picked up on my critical remarks about – the spam folder.

    Whoever coded this spam folder should go back to school.

    Bettystanton

    Does anybody else doubt that these fucking wankers live in the real world? I've decided to just give up - there is no point in fighting it. These people are morons and Cif is a travesty.

    I no longer doubt but am sure of it, and gave up on it a while ago.

    Leni

    I don't think the majority of waddya regulars are interested in the poor Sheff - they're just 'other people' aren't they ?

    For The Guarn, they are just other-people-over-there – like another species almost - good to be used for copy, as in whatever minister is at present in favour at Graun HQ is doing to lift 'them' out of poverty (ignoring the details of how it's usually having the opposite effect, and vanishing comments pointing it out too uncomfortably), with a few quiet articles being permitted by the little people to continue the Gaurn's own imagined Liberal ID... BUT, how dare they touch our child benefit, however large our wage.

    our world

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  38. @Atom

    I'm so relieved they haven't given me the blue C, which makes you look like a fucking Conservative candidate IMO. I initially wondered if I should ask them not to give me it, but then I thought that might jog their memories, so I just kept quiet. It's worked so far.

    Now if they'd give me a big red C, that'd be something else entirely. :-)

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  39. I think Swifts right about "regulars", most suggestions taken up dont come from regulars. I get on alright with Jess but still, aside from the CIf brithday special, only ever had one suggestion taken up - and i used to make loads of suggestions. I dont anymore for that reason.

    Its more the nature of the suggestion - anythign fluffy, or identity politics based, or based on some exotic country like Nepal, Tunisia, whatever - you've got a good chance of the suggestion being taken up whoever you are. Ask for an article on PFI - silence, whoever you are.

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  40. Was just going to pass on Pen's condolences Bitters but I see you've been over the water already.

    Gawd knows why I've spent half my day off on waddya...must be bonkers! Possibly its safer than leaving a comment on the Glover thread - which I absolutely must stay away from for fear of being seriously abusive, especially as I suspect MAM will be all over it.

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  41. @Sheffpixie
    Yep, thank you, I took a look to see what the rumpus was, and there was pen's comment. Sweet.

    @JayReilly
    PFI ? Did you read the latest Eye on PFI ? The LibCons who were busy dissing it - moderately to extremely - before the election, are now giving it the "only game in town status".

    There's a good article to be had looking into how PFI-cos are now offering significant repayment "windows" (of up to several years) to NHS and council authorities, to entice them into continuing with projects which got derailed after autumn 08 crash.

    Where's the Lib Dem pressure to make PFI "last resort" only now ? Where's the Tory condenscension about 'discredited' Labour public sector finance strategies now ?

    BullSHIT. They're hawking for the same the same pimps as ever.

    If the Guardian was actually left wing, Allyson Pollock would have a weekly column on there, instead of the likes of Jenkins... as ani fule no.

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  42. Afternoon, everyone, has Waddya been really nasty over the weekend? Been away for a couple of days.

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  43. Is there a need to shut it down out of hours? What happened?

    Sheff, loved the blinding right hook to Bru. Unlucky, Bru! Totally outclassed!

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  44. Hi Moonwave, rescued your post. We all hate the bloody spam folder but we can't turn it off.

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  45. All very true, Swift, Gideon fast changed his tune from PFi being "discredited" to signing up his first PFI hospital weeks after gaining power. Gutter filth.

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  46. @Sheff

    I was contemplating posting something there, but decided it wasn't worth it. Something along these lines:

    "It seems that I managed to kick off this whole thing a few days ago by addressing a particular poster, and drawing her attention to the fact that her activity on this thread looked like officious bossiness with an unearned sense of entitlement. No abuse, no spite, although perhaps a somewhat pointed question.

    In response, I was called an arsehole, a tosser, and - indirectly, by the person I originally addressed - a misogynist. Interestingly, one of my main abusers was a poster who is now complaining about being singled out by Giyus. I did not respond in kind, apart from a gentle hand-off to Hermione and a sarcastic one-liner to Gigolo.

    I'm not complaining about any of this; it's all part of the give and take of online life."

    I might have gone on and on about hysterical plans for taller barriers to protect a few sensitive but stinging plants, but - as I say - decided against.

    Fuck 'em all.

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  47. @ Bitterweed
    My condolences too. She was obviously a great person.I know you and others will continue supporting her husband. It's a hard time for him,and can be so for longer than one thinks.

    On a lighter note , I wasted some life checking out waddya, but apart from the small handful of good suggestions ( you know who you are) some was very funny --
    " The weekend was dominated by a debate about abusive and possiblly unlawful posts on CiF accompanied by at least forty attacks upon me personally. I don't want to talk about. I want to know what is going to be done about it."

    "We'll send you links to websites on how to get a thicker skin." -- stevejones123

    Hehe !

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  48. Even funnier, these 'nasty personal attacks' consisted of being called EnglishKermit, I think.

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  49. In tonight's London Evening Standars IDS is reported as having said that 25% of people currently claiming IB could start work immediately.This cliam is no doubt based on the results of those new claimants who've been tested for ESA by ATOS since late 2008.And the assumption that those who either withdrew their claim before being tested or didn't appeal after failing their ATOS medical must be 'fit for work'.

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  50. Thaumaturge

    Thank you - I do understand - was just venting my frustrations about it!

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  51. thauma-- I do rather like MuttoninEurope too

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  52. Dave - yes, fits beautifully with the sheeple meme!

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  53. For anyone following the story Hermione has just reported that Peace Musabi is to be allowed to be reunited with her kids here in the UK.Great news.

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  54. Good news indeed, Paul. As I pointed out on here a couple of weeks ago... :-)

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  55. Yo Paul! Great news, indeed.
    Just catching up with UT, we're okay, pal. Sorry if you were on your own against that prick Martyn.

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  56. Suggestion on waddya re. acred Sights - with capital letters.

    how do people here feel about them. My view is that as we have them we should respect those of others.

    It is , in fact, a much more fundamental question than the area these places cover.

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  57. Sacred SITES - obviously - the other suggests some kind of fantasy world - or peeping Toms.

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  58. AB

    Hahaha! I wondered if tnetennba was you!

    "As it, that's a very nice tnetennba you're wearing".

    Awesome. :o)

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  59. And hello everyone, btw. Still at home with the lurg. Actually managed to get up at 5.50, have a bath, then puked when I took a lemsip and decided that handlers of stolen laptops and iPods could find another barrister today.

    So don't expect anything wildly insightful from me this evening, will you?

    x

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  60. Great! So they are fit for work, eh, IDS? And you have, no doubt, a job at the national average wage to offer them? No?

    Well shut the fuck up then...

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  61. Leni, re: Sacred sites.

    Bit of a toughie, Leni - The Dome of the Rock, a very sacred mosque to muslims is built on the site of King Solomon's Temple.

    I, personally, can only argue for its architectural merit, but also understand the permanent insult may Jewish people feel from its existence. There could be grave ramifications in it's demolition.

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  62. V. good news about Peace Musabi.

    There could be grave ramifications in it's demolition.

    Surely the Israelis aren't planning to do that? Building the new museum of tolerance over the Mamilla cemetery has proved controversial enough - pulling down the Dome of the Rock is unthinkable. It would be absolute madness!

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  63. Paul

    IDS is definitely in some other fantasy country if he imagines that there’s anywhere in this country where 25% of anyone could immediately start work – doesn’t he know that his government is following up the recession by cutting/slashing jobs as fast as they can?

    What about a plan for job recovery? - not a peep. Instead it’s - let’s turn up the victimisation of those not managing to get non-existent jobs – and then let's decide that most of the disabled and sick should also be getting some of those non-existent jobs. What sort of a policy is that?!

    It’s the same as papers like the Sun/Mail/Express trumpeting that as so many people are not getting onto ESA, or losing their IB, that it proves that they were false claims all along – with no regard to the ways many of those failures are being orchestrated – and no reference to all of the successful appeals that follow either.

    I think it was Princesschipchops who pointed out that it was always the case that many withdrew their claim, generally because they got better; and it was never the case that a huge percentage got it – so that proves exactly zilch.

    Moreover, the figure of 2.6 m on Incapacity is quoted as if they are always the same people, when it’s very individually fluid, for obvious reasons; with long-term IB claimants in their thousands, and the biggest percentage amongst the over-50s, just as you’d expect.

    What has changed is that now only such a small percentage are managing to get onto ESA, and we know that’s because they’re fixing the points and the paperwork.

    Okay, maybe they can force 25% to go to the Job Centre (or equivalent), but that's where many will continue to languish, with less money and bully-boy tactics at every turn, and little chance of a real job – only causing many to become more ill.

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  64. Moonwave - it just seems so fucking obvious to anyone with a tiny flicker of imagination or a molecule of heart. But it's like banging your head against a brick wall, trying to make some people understand.

    I fear the only way it will happen is if someone THEY know and love is victimised ... and even then, some of 'em will probably argue that this is some sort of hideous exception.

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  65. Sheff, "pulling down the Dome of the Rock is unthinkable." Just so you know.

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  66. Huh. Just had a phone call (research company - Populace Research, I believe they were called) basically asking my opinion of Jews.

    Haven't googled & about to go and eat, but ... anyone know anything about them?

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  67. abib

    This is what I mean about it going further than the site itself.

    The excavations in J'salem are a case in point - Muslims stand accused of destroying Jewish artifacts whilst there has been a suggestion that the dome of the Rock - and al Asqua - be demolished and rebuilt in Saudi !

    Some archeologists suggest that the Temple was in fact to the South of the supposed site. Very difficult to know the truth - there have been only 3 stones found with David's name on them. Again there is doubt about them - some interpretations suggesting that the @house of David' indicates a tribe rather than an individual.

    When it comes down to it the objective truth is immaterial. It is the identification - the sense of 'belonging' which light the passions.

    Remember the outrage here over the woman weeing on the war memorial ?

    Moving the Dome of the Rock could easily lead to violence - any deaths occurring as a result would be seen as secondary by some.The site itself is what matters.

    Many 'sacred sites' have been over built and rededicated over the centuries.

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  68. Evening all.
    On the 'Waddya closing evenings & weekends' matter - doh (as Pen would say).

    Why not just turn it into an exclusive club? Exclusive as in excluding anyone who can't post 9-5 GMT every Monday-Friday.

    Leni

    Sacred sites thread would be good.

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  69. Slow self-esteem populace uses Facebook, says studyToronto: A Canadian Sutdy revealed that the most popular site Facebook is used mostly by the populace with low self-esteem. The people use the website as a self-promotional tool.

    Mehdizadeh, who extensively examined the online habits and personalities of 100 Facebook users aged 18 to 25 years old, found that individuals higher in selfishness and lower in self-esteem spent more time on the site and filled their pages with more self-promotional content.

    Mehdizadeh sadi, “She was struck by the fact that those with lower self-esteem were more apt to use this social networking tool.”

    Hmmm!

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  70. This is a very sensitive region for a dig. Should it approach the Temple Mount wall, it will certainly elicit angry reactions from the Muslim Waqf (religious trust), which has repeatedly accused Israel of trying to excavate under the holy places on the mount.

    Moreover, most of the excavation site is inhabited by Palestinians, and thus far, no effort has been made to get their permission, as required by law, for digging on and under their property.

    But on top of all that, it recently emerged that the dig violates the terms of the license that the archaeologists received in January 2006, and has not been approved by the INNPPA.


    My heqart sinks at the potential for trouble Habib - together with everything else thats going on in the occupied territories.

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  71. For anyone feeling loved up tonight here's a track from Isaac Hayes

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  72. And for those who are not loved up an old classic from Linda Clifford

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  73. So ... Populace Research. A quick Google doesn't reveal anything as the search terms are so common. No. .co.uk nor .com.

    The first few questions were pretty generic as to religion: how much do you identify with the following groups? Jews/Hindus/Muslims/Sikhs/Protestants/Catholics.

    Then it was something like, how much do you think that each of these groups contribute to the world's ills?

    Most of the rest of the questions were specifically related to Jews: do you think they control the media, do you think they control the government, do you think the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is gospel truth, who is more at fault in the I/P conflict, etc. Oh, and How acceptable is it to attack Jews given their role in the world.

    It was pretty weird, really, and I cannot yet make up my mind who was funding it - a pro-Israeli group or an anti-Israeli group. But it must be one or the other. I'm guessing the former.

    I expect I will have confused them with my answers. ;-)

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  74. Thaum

    Confusion is good!

    Try Googling Populus Research...

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  75. Hello everyone: did anyone hear Andrew Marr having a pop at bloggers on this evenings PM programme (Radio 4)?
    I didn't catch all of it but the general drift was that we are all ignorant,speccy,acne riddled teenagers who should just STFU and leave the serious business of journalism to the pro's.

    And there I was thinking that blogging had proliferated over the last few years precisely because our professional journos had let us down so badly.

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  76. Short list of clients:

    Monsanto
    Cessna
    DeloitteTouche
    CIA
    John McCain 4 Prez
    Reagan/Bush '84
    McDonald's
    Dow

    As evil a list as you could imagine.

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  77. chekhov

    Yes, I did and there I was thinking the same thing! There's a thread on the subject on CiF, by Krishnan Guru Murthy.

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  78. chekhov

    Krishnan Guru Murthy from Channel 4 News has a thing on CiF about it.

    Apparently, Marr is a tosser with scattered love-children (or something, perhaps quite different) and has been "outed" by bloggers...

    You get the drift.

    Another Charles Foster Kane fantasist.

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  79. Thauma

    John McCain is OK, I think.

    I buy his chips sometimes.

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  80. MsChin

    Did I get it right - or just make it all up as I went along?

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  81. OK ... Populus is based in Boise, Idaho and appears to have almost exclusively US clients. So why are they ringing me via someone with a lovely RP accent?

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  82. Thauma

    Did you check their .co.uk site?

    I only glanced, but all the lovely soft-focus piccies were of the Three Daves and that Sainsbury's cook fellah and Simon Cowell.

    If they were asking about people's attitudes to Jews, it's probably Dave testing the water to see if a war would go down OK in the Home Counties.

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  83. I don't get the chips joke. :-( Probably down to my lack of advertising exposure.

    Suspect a new US headline soon: Brits are all anti-semitic shock horror!

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  84. Bugger me, Atomboy, I am slow on the uptake tonight. Checking it now.

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  85. Oh FFS, they've got Rooney on their front page.

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  86. Spud Faced Nipper?!

    Nah, surely not!

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  87. OK, better get on again for a bit.

    You didn't want the buggery this evening, I take it, Thauma?

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  88. Uh-huh, so the they are all shills for the Conservative Party. Otherwise known as the Nasty Bastards.

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  89. What a client list Thauma! Sometimes I wish I had hacking skills...

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  90. Yeah, I'm trying to get the meme going for them to be called the Neo Nasties.

    OK gotta go.

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  91. AB - think I'll pass for now, bit of headache an' all.

    In fact, am just going to post my favourite joke evah on Waddya (supposing I can find a decent version) (yes, I know) and be done with today.

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  92. Mission accomplished.

    Disgusted with Corporate Britain (and even more US).

    Off ta me bed.

    See youse around.

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  93. AB

    Pretty fair approximation, I'd say. Unfortunately, I wasn't aware of Marr's misdemeanours until I read the piece.

    thauma

    You chose to confound their variables, didn't you? My other half does a good line in getting rid of unwanted sales calls:

    Them: ... double glazed windows?
    Other half: ... sorry, there are no windows where I live, they won't let me have them ..

    Or alternatively:

    Them: ... double glazed windows?
    Other half: this is WingWang sauna/money laundering service, what service do you require? May I suggest ... ?

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  94. the CIA want to know what kind of breakfast cereal we eat?

    wouldn't put it past them...

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  95. It seems we're being bombarded by people supposedly wanting to know our opinions.Not only those ringing us up at home and stopping us in the street but also in-store researchers as well.In my local Sainsburys they seem to pop up in every other aisle and in my local Barclays there's an over friendly woman who comes on to you like she's yer best friend asking for a few minutes of yer time to tell her how good or otherwise the service has been.I just ignore them.

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  96. @Paul: yeah they all want our opinions if they are of the "tick box" variety but not if they stray into the "blogosphere" where people are allowed to actually string a few sentences together which expose the whole insidious process for the scam that it really is.

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  97. Jews/Hindus/Muslims/Sikhs/Protestants/Catholics.

    Then it was something like, how much do you think that each of these groups contribute to the world's ills?


    Protestants, Catholics and Jews the most, because they're in the best position to contribute to the world's ills.

    The others would probably do just as well given the same amount of power. And why don't Buddhists get a mention?

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  98. BTW: does anyone have experience of filling in a tax return on-line? (short variety).
    I only ask 'cos the snail mail option has to be submitted by the end of this month but for some reason(that doesn't really matter) if you choose to do it online, the deadline is Jan 31st 2011.

    Given that if procrastination (at least as far as tax goes) were an Olympic sport I would be a gold medallist, I'm just weighing up the pros and cons of either biting the bullet and doing it now or shoving it all back in the filing cabinet and opening another bottle of red wine!

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  99. checkhov - if you haven't filed online before, you'll need a special online tax reference (a UTR, I think) which you have to apply for first. possibly by post. it definitely gets sent out by post. and then you can do the online filey thing.

    if you're properly on the short form, and aren't too complicated, it's pretty easy and if they owe you, they tend to pay quicker than the paper version (mine just took 4.5 months to get processed and it's wrong) as it is automated.

    but don't leave it until the last minute as the servers tend to get overwhelmed the last couple of days (they've had to keep the window open in the past, I think, as it was impossible to access). but if you apply for the UTR this week and then get the return done before Christmas, should be fine...

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  100. @chekhov

    There's apparently a really good piece on procrastination in the New Yorker, here. I haven't got around to reading it myself.

    I've done a bit of tax returning online, and it's easy enough as long as the server's not overloaded.

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  101. @PhillipaB and PeterJ: thanks for the tips.

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  102. Here's some Milestones for any UT jazz lovers.

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  103. Paul

    Just looked at the Glover thing - 25% 'illiterate' is an exaggeration but the figures across Britain for semi-literacy or lacking 'functional literacy' are around 22 - 25%.

    Research on one run down estate with a poor school, high truancy and accompanying social ills found the reading age of most adults to be around 7.

    Leaving school only semi literate discourages reading - skills diminish rapidly . Interestingly some 'illiterates' can read football scores. They are interested in this and learn to recognise and understand the team names. This is often a starting point for adult literacy teachers - or indeed any area which interests the learner.

    Leearning about anything starts with being interested in the subject. Reading - in places of high unemployment and destroyed aspiration is not seen as a priority.

    We Welsh are no thicker than the rest of the world's population. I'll get Glover next time round !

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  104. Hi Leni and Chekhov

    Glover is like Harker,Bindel,Bidisha,Ellen and god knows how many other Guardian journos. I only respond to them BTL when i'm bored.And tbh it's like taking candy from a baby.I think their function is to provoke as much btl response as possible by coming out with any contentious garbage.And they probably get paid commission for the number of btl hits they get.I'm seriously thinking of posting with the Telegraph cos i'm getting bored with CIF.And whilst i don't expect to win the battle of hearts and minds with many Telegraph readers i might just get through to some people with regard to single issues like ATOS.Who knows!

    Anyways i earlier heard this cover of the Beatles song Eleanor Rigby by the Crusaders. See what you both think.

    Habib

    Thanks for your earlier post.MIE got under my skin a bit but i'm OK now.The guy's a waste of space and not worth bothering about.

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  105. Paul

    There is nothing on Cof I feel like responding to at the moment. something about 'fairness' I might tackle but not feeling inspired by any of it.

    Not a Beatles fan - but will have a listen.

    Chekhov - Tax returns - how much are you off shoring then ?

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  106. Chekhov - Tax returns - how much are you off shoring then ?
    Chance would be a fine thing if I had any money to "off shore"; there ain't no money to "off shore " where I come from when you've been taken to the cleaners already!
    You knew that anyway!

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  107. Cheeky Monkey: :Leni...Good night!

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