Our own little corner of Stewart
Today's thread starter courtesy of Joe Wildhack -- he chose the quote and the image.
Thanks for doing that Joe. I always pause for thought when I read these quotes; they are timeless. The images are also enduring. We look forward to a busy thread today.
Thanks to Joe Wildhack for both the picture and the quote.In many ways, I prefer to start the day with "Woohoo! Meerkats!" (whatever the picture) but think that today this would be straining any possible connection too far.However, I notice the picture is by Andrew Ostin and is called Giger’s Twist (Inspired by the Swiss horror artist H.R.Giger. Yes that’s the guy who designed the "Alien"-monster.)He seems to like computer fractals, but follow a Google to his DeviantArt page for other stuff.Which brings us back to meerkats.
Hello visitor from Jordan - all are welcome to comment here.
good call by m. wildhack - was just thinking when i read the quote, that eleanor roosevelt spoke a lot of sense, didn't she?...have been ill all week, and it doesn't look like it's going to lift any time soon. this is veeeeery boring.
my call for today's carcrash thread would be this one."This is a uniquely modern drama, and it is as much a psychical drama as a practical one, in which home is a place governed not by concepts of fairness but by willingness and desire"ermmmmmm.......
Message for fencewalkerMake no mistake..waddaya will be mine..and, like I promised, you will be my bitch-in-chief...worry not. However, you're overdoing it a bit at the moment. You seem to have become ensnared in the mass hysteria gripping the place.You talk about 'abuse' all the time. It may strike some of you as abuse but that's because when an ego has become so bloated and precious, a line like "actually matey, you're not as funny, clever or interesting as you suppose" ceases to constructive criticism and instead is pathologically morphed into an assault on your sense of self (watch this space...). I'm just bringing down waddaya by exposing its internal contradictions through the medium of 'mild ribbing'..the 'calling people cunts' business is actually all one sided..not my side..please, feel free..quote some of my 'abuse' and 'hate-filled bile'..really..do it!See..in my case..if I choose..and I do from time to time..I'm quite happy to call say, Martin a foul mouthed despicable little racist based on the things he's said...not the things I've colluded with others in imagining he's said or assessing his motives through projection. I've actually been witness to it.You've also referred to my 'attack' on hermione. This could be summed in in the sentence "You're getting a bit stale dear"...that's a criticism of style..nothing else. Suppose for a moment you don't actually subscribe to the "she's an institution" trope..what are you left with? A tidal wave of one line comments, about 10% of which are worth reading and about 1 in 50 is genuinely funny; it's the 49 blanks I'm objecting to.ctd
Morning allJoe WidhackNice one young man!MonkeyfishI don't get this problem some people here have with Hermione.I think she's harmless.The rest of what you said is spot on.Seems like Fatboy Sprouts and the Milk Monitor have done a good job in contaminating quite a few others on waddya with their vacuous twisted way of thinking,double standards and total lack of self awareness.Good post.
Morning allLurgified today. Hugs to PhiliBee - we'll share germs! xThe TeaPartyBlog has brought out the usual "Get a job" low-IQ morons. Some of them are just plain thick. Some seem to have a modicum of education and are still spouting shite about the welfare state causing poverty. The article itself is a joke. It can be summarised as "We were poor and lived in a council block, luckily when I was 9 my dad managed to get a job as a fireman and we were able to move into private renting - therefore being self-reliant and clever while all my cousins were just bad tempered and lazy. And it's all the fault of Obama".Makes me seethe.
Then we move onto my 'attack' on penWell sorry mate, but I was brought up to shout "bullshit" when I hear it. I feel like the boy in the emperor's new clothes. Why the fuck you lot encourage his "intellectual on a cloud" persona, I have no idea. His posts are vacuous nonsense wrapped in layers of abstruse jargon and references which signify nothing...ever tried asking him to elaborate?..you get a bit of condescension, plenty of 'duh's and a shitload of links which you're informed you've to read before you can even approach the foothills to his plateau of enlightenment. If you want to indulge such grand imposture, feel free..I'll shout 'fraud' and 'bullshit' at that kinda shite forever.I can understand why he's condoned and endorsed over there. I mean, if it ever became fashionable to closely examine the intellectual pedigree of waddaya posters, we'd have a pandemic on our hands...little numpties collapsing in droves as the essential hollowness of their logic and stances were revealed. I'm pretty sure that's what's behind this manufactured illusion of wild abuse. Take anyone on there to task over something they've written and there's no subsequent 'debate'; there's a wounded little ego running about squealing like a stuck pig who's soon joined by a little gang of squealing playmates.Why it is you've taken it upon yourself to defend the happy little spam valley is beyond me. It's clearly important to CIF to front an image of interactive dialogue and contented user input as, in response to a change of government, they reposition their ethos towards that of the elite school of Victorian philanthropy. I'm just trying to shatter the illusion fencewalker.CIF is fundamentally about taking issue with things people have written. Why should this be any different in a special little thread whose main point seems to be the propagation of droll nonsense is beyond me. Since the tone of the place is one of an assumed wit, style and entitlement, that's what I take issue with..it's what CIF's for..why the special objections?For some time now, especially after deletions, the thread is disjointed, pointless and full of self-righteous idiots getting outraged over having their egos pricked...what the fuck is it for fencewalker?..it has to go..it's an affront to the glorious interweb..a last gasp attempt by CIF to show some affinity with its readership by husbanding a bunch an especially malleable and impressionable herd into a consensus of mutual affection..it's a fuckin abomination fencewalker..dunno why you bother. At least I go there from a sense of duty to destroy the place. You seem motivated by a desire to defend a bunch of helpless goons who can't stick up for themselves.And as for your suggestion that I've ever hit an abuse button on any post ever...fuck offdon't even know where the suggestion comes from say?..projection?..deflection?..distraction? Do you suppose for a minute it suits me to have any posts deleted...dream on.
Then we move onto my 'attack' on penWell sorry mate, but I was brought up to shout "bullshit" when I hear it. I feel like the boy in the emperor's new clothes. Why the fuck you lot encourage his "intellectual on a cloud" persona, I have no idea. His posts are vacuous nonsense wrapped in layers of abstruse jargon and references which signify nothing...ever tried asking him to elaborate?..you get a bit of condescension, plenty of 'duh's and a shitload of links which you're informed you've to read before you can even approach the foothills to his plateau of enlightenment. If you want to indulge such grand imposture, feel free..I'll shout 'fraud' and 'bullshit' at that kinda shite forever.I can understand why he's condoned and endorsed over there. I mean, if it ever became fashionable to closely examine the intellectual pedigree of waddaya posters, we'd have a pandemic on our hands...little numpties collapsing in droves as the essential hollowness of their logic and stances were revealed. I'm pretty sure that's what's behind this manufactured illusion of wild abuse. Take anyone on there to task over something they've written and there's no subsequent 'debate'; there's a wounded little ego running about squealing like a stuck pig who's soon joined by a little gang of squealing playmates.
monkeyfish,Make no mistake..waddaya will be mineHang on, what about Lord GIYUS of Bilderberg, where does he fit in?
PaulI don't have a problem with hermione..I even think she's funny now and again and she sure as hell doesn't seem to ascribe to the "we're being attacked by demons from the darkest recesses of the pit" etc. She's got a sense of proportion which is rare enough over there, I just think her stuff's approaching its sell by date.
"Hang on, what about Lord GIYUS of Bilderberg, where does he fit in?"Information minister and honorary Viceroy of Scunthorpe
Morning comradesAnother thrilling UT/waddya spat is brewing I notice. O tedium! O mores!PhillipaThat Rachel Cusk piece made my eyes cross!
SheffI could barely understand what it was, exactly, that she wanted to say. On the one hand, it seemed to have a feminist "wages for housework" flavour going on, then on the other hand she was suggesting that women who choose to stay at home were subservient anti-feminists. I couldn't really get a handle on it at all.But I stick by my guns - if there is £50k floating about in a household, they don't need £2k a year in hand-outs from the state when so many at the bottom of the heap are suffering. End of.
morning sheff! O tedium! O mores!am having that...have tried four times now to draft something on the child benefit thread (aka middle-class entitlement and theorising based wholly on the writer's personal experience) but have had to give up because my brain keeps disagreeing with itself.mainly disagreeing with the writer. but also with itself.
hey BB! don't suppose you want to take a pre-publication copy of Picarda's Law and Practice relating to charities off my hands for £50 off the list price?payment in kind is all very well but I can't list on amazon.co.uk from a french IP, and i doubt any french lawyers will be interested...
I don't think I ever got around to saying hello and welcome to IanG - if so sorry.I would never mock the afflicted - so those of an oversensitive disposition should look away or think twice before concluding that I am taking the piss out of those unfortunately affected by Tourettes.My drafting work on mew mates IB appeal is giving me a a tic. My sleep last night was much disturbed by my note making and early drafting work.As the years have gone by I find I have developed aversions which now find expression in the way I write. A kind of venom fueled verbal diarrhoea sometimes comes on me. And It would now be a major effort requiring enormous discipline and will power assisted by 240 volts of ac electricity before....I can write the word Mandelson without the accompanying words "uber creep".I now find that in writing about me mates alleged medical assessment, for his Incapacity Benefit appeal, I cannot for the life of me describe his assessor as anything but in terms of " that fucking Nurse Ratched like tosser" which is plainly verbose.I'm not sure that I'm going to be much help so much as get me mate committed. Still he said he was up for itJen/PCC/Paul/Leni - anyone else helping somebody with a IB/ESA matter - I most definitely do not advise that you follow our strategy/style or example. That said...What a fucking shambles the alleged computer medical assessment system is. I'm sure that it could easily fill the asylums as it makes the Kraut sounding copyright holder of the computer programme a fortune.It is almost inevitable that our communications with the Department for Work and Pensions will continue some references like...."...No one is saying the faecally incontinent cannot work at all - the fucking Nazi's proved, beyond argument, that it is possible to make the dispossessed work damn hard whilst sitting in their own (fecal matter) shit. But to incorporate that possibility into a computer programme as a design intention to bring about that situation is a fucking disgrace which the public interest requires being exposed...........Work in these circumstance does not make the individual free, but rather locked into a humiliating public routine of emptying the shit (fecal matter) from their pants as they wait for lunch, or going home, timeIt is not the simply the smell of the shit that other workers find discomforting, it is the human sympathy for the soreness around the rectum (arse) of the victim of your computer programme which distracts from their own productivity that is at issue........................have you considered that either that fucking Nurse Ratched like tosser or alternatively that fucking Kraut may have had a disturbed childhood with problematic toilet training................ It is plainly in the public interest that the actions/conduct of your sub contracted alleged medical adviser, for whom you have full legal contractual responsibility should be referred to his Professional Body by way of serious complaint of Unethical Unprofessional conduct..........it is also in the public interest that the matter should be talked about and in that regard .... the investigative journalists of the BBC and the Guardian newspapers have been invited to cover the story.....
ah - is now published (but not up on amazon so can't pigy-back on the main listing). anyway. ask your friends.
......I have given my permission for my medical records and experiences to be considered public property.............I have also alerted my MP and asked him to bring the matter of.....to the attention of the Atos contract compliance officer...............you should notify your contractor Atos that as a result of their offensive disgraceful and medically incompetent conduct that both they and you will now be facing numerous FoI requests with all necessary appeals .....starting with this formal request for a copy of the video taken of myself as I entered the alleged medical assessment building........"etc etc etcI can see that the initial letter of complaint cum notice of appeal may run to 15 to 20+ pages. I really do dislike these grubby offensive people...but as I sad above those of you at home watching ...don't try this.
Good to see you back PhilB
PhilSadly, not at the moment, no. I've got to fork out £435 on Archbold Criminal Pleading this month, so I am a bit tight on cashflow,I can ask around for you, though? x
BB - heheheh. the prices of these books bewilders me. i mean, am happy if i can offload the thing, as i need the money, but...if you do know anyone interested, can deliver (by hand if in London area) when I come over w/c 25 oct...hello deano! you give me the impetus to get the painting out of the spare room and start consideringg poppies...
PhillipaI had the same problem with that Cusk piece. There are so many places to start and I end up tripping over myself, so haven't posted. Only the most affluent mothers and the poorest, ie those who are unemployed and on benefits stay at home these days. The rest of us have to graft, like it or not.If HMG want to address the issues then doing it through the tax system is surely the fairest way? I'm also concerned about losing the concept of universality.
Philippa - you're in London in Oct? Is there a drinking session planned?
BB - thank you for saying you would look in the draw for the legal reference I need. I much appreciate it.I do appreciate that you wouldn't want me as a pupil so I won't be applying when you come around to getting one.(Come to think of it PhilB - have you been involved in auditing in the public sector?? - you may have the reference (or a route to it) I seek.)BB - there is interestingly evidence of the traditional aversion to retrospective law in the Incap Benefit rules and procedures - the system now takes account of pension income to make it a means tested benefit but affords a protected position (non means tested) to those on the benefit before a certain date! I also need to ask you how personally you read the current fashion of judicial/legal minds..... with respect to interpretation of statutes/rules/instruments/ SI's etc...............are they/you more literal or purposeful in approach these days? Or still inclined to the approach the produces the result which best favours the judges prejudices
That sounds like an eminently sensible idea, Shaz. A London booze-up. :o)Sheff - I get what you say about the concept of universality and perhaps you are right that it would be better resolved with a few extra percentage points on the income tax. But that will never happen under a Tory government. So this is an alternative that I find quite acceptable.
Shit..seems the final part of my epistle to the church at fencewalker went missing...apologies to anyone who's bored but I'm on a mission..here it is againWhy it is you've taken it upon yourself to defend the happy little spam valley is beyond me. It's clearly important to CIF to front an image of interactive dialogue and contented user input as, in response to a change of government, they reposition their ethos towards that of the elite school of Victorian philanthropy. I'm just trying to shatter the illusion fencewalker.CIF is fundamentally about taking issue with things people have written. Why should this be any different in a special little thread whose main point seems to be the propagation of droll nonsense is beyond me. Since the tone of the place is one of an assumed wit, style and entitlement, that's what I take issue with..it's what CIF's for..why the special objections?For some time now, especially after deletions, the thread is disjointed, pointless and full of self-righteous idiots getting outraged over having their egos pricked...what the fuck is it for fencewalker?..it has to go..it's an affront to the glorious interweb..a last gasp attempt by CIF to show some affinity with its readership by husbanding a bunch an especially malleable and impressionable herd into a consensus of mutual affection..it's a fuckin abomination fencewalker..dunno why you bother. At least I go there from a sense of duty to destroy the place. You seem motivated by a desire to defend a bunch of helpless goons who can't stick up for themselves.And as for your suggestion that I've ever hit an abuse button on any post ever...fuck offdon't even know where the suggestion comes from say?..projection?..deflection?..distraction? Do you suppose for a minute it suits me to have any posts deleted...dream on.
DeanoOne thing the Human Rights Act did was to allow a more purposive, European way of approaching the law, which to my mind is sensible.However, I still can't help thinking that a sizeable minority of judges still decide what the outcome of a case is going to be based on reading the bundles and only pretend to be listening to oral submissions. Which is bloody irritating.
PhilB - I've got lots of different poppy photo's if you fancy a different angle ..Good year this year - even a couple of fields across the way that were awash with em - quite rare to see large swathes of gorgeous red.
BB - that's encouraging.If it were a serious matter of consequence (see my initial ramblings above) I would be helped by a slant towards purpose, especially if I can get a reason to take it beyond the Tribunal stage to the Commissioners (points of law only)
Also fencepostHow d'you feel when your spam colleagues fuck up and reveal themselves as total imposters..Martyn..would-be urbane and sophisticated man of the world gets told he's a bore and launches into a right old rant, trips over his own babble and next thing you know, it's 'hope you get cancer'..'go fuck your mother'..'house nigger' etcEnglishHermit...laid back ageing hippy suddenly turns into an uptight censorious reactionary calling for a ring of steel around his cosy chatathonExpat..where the fuck would you start?All of them fence...I could go on..dodgy bastards posing as things they're just not..least with me you get what it says on the tin.You lot can't come to terms with the fact that Waddaya is now, in effect: The Giyus Show.The rest of you are bit parts, extras and ex-bullfighters..accept it fencewalker..you're his playthings..FFS, you've had long enough to turn it into something different..you couldn't pull it off...at every stage the gravitational pull of back-slapping, preening and "crawling to Miss" was just too strong.Dunno why you do it..as I've said before: you, at least can construct and maintain an argument..why do you argue in the cause of morons whose big gripe is that they're not afforded some kinda undeserved respect?
part 3..epistle to the community of fencewalker...Why it is you've taken it upon yourself to defend the happy little spam valley is beyond me. It's clearly important to CIF to front an image of interactive dialogue and contented user input as, in response to a change of government, they reposition their ethos towards that of the elite school of Victorian philanthropy. I'm just trying to shatter the illusion fencewalker.CIF is fundamentally about taking issue with things people have written. Why should this be any different in a special little thread whose main point seems to be the propagation of droll nonsense is beyond me. Since the tone of the place is one of an assumed wit, style and entitlement, that's what I take issue with..it's what CIF's for..why the special objections?For some time now, especially after deletions, the thread is disjointed, pointless and full of self-righteous idiots getting outraged over having their egos pricked...what the fuck is it for fencewalker?..it has to go..it's an affront to the glorious interweb..a last gasp attempt by CIF to show some affinity with its readership by husbanding a bunch an especially malleable and impressionable herd into a consensus of mutual affection..it's a fuckin abomination fencewalker..dunno why you bother. At least I go there from a sense of duty to destroy the place. You seem motivated by a desire to defend a bunch of helpless goons who can't stick up for themselves.And as for your suggestion that I've ever hit an abuse button on any post ever...fuck offdon't even know where the suggestion comes from say?..projection?..deflection?..distraction? Do you suppose for a minute it suits me to have any posts deleted...dream on.
PhilB - try ebay (with a reserve) for your book?
deano - no public sector experience for me - NAO had the audits sown up and they work by such different rules that consultants had to be specialists - i stayed away from PS rules because i already had a narrow and weird skillset by focussing on the third sector, and didn't much fancy having another one...more pictures would be great! have just added the flower heads. feeling much better.(think legal beagles more likely to go to amazon than ebay - and time-limited listings are a pain. so will continue to tout it aroun, hehehehehe)drinks in london? atcha. 27 or 28 oct? maybe 29? (but flight is at silly o'clock in the morning on the 30th...)
Right..that's it for now..I appreciate some people on waddaya are bored with these spats so I'll stop now and let them resume their usual fare of completely non-boring, vital 'debate'..."got a carrot cake recipe kiz?""reminds me of the time an Italian prince, working for the CIA and dressed up as a carrot for a fundraising fancy-dress ball, became so enamoured of my white stilettos and fishnets that he tried to corner me in an alcove of the ambassador's pantry..had to fight him off with a gravy spoon...LOL..I'll get me tiara" normal service resumed
Why does an obscure corner of a newspaper website matter that much?Most of the people who post on CiF wouldn't touch waddya with a bargepole. I happen to like chatting to the people on there about inconsequential shite, or using it for its declared purpose of making suggestions for new articles. But the rest is so much unmitigated bollocks. What is the point in arguing about it? There are so many more important things to fight about. What does it matter if people want to talk about jaffa cakes or gravy? There are ninety-twelve other articles that can be commented on every day.
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Philippa drinks in london? atcha. 27 or 28 oct? maybe 29? (but flight is at silly o'clock in the morning on the 30th...)Any of those would be fine. Think it's half-term, added bonus!
"Why does an obscure corner of a newspaper website matter that much?Most of the people who post on CiF wouldn't touch waddya with a bargepole."So why do they keep it going?..why do they seem to canvas opinion there from people who congregate there, in the main, because they can't cut it on proper threads?-lets face it..soon as they were criticised they'd be screaming for Jessica Whatsit to save them from the 'bile and hate-speech and abuse'.....and why have a handful of unremarkable, uninformed nobodies been given ATL access as a kinda long-service/ services to obsequiousness award? Please don't tell me it's to do with the quality of their thoughts or writing.CIF have for some reason invested the place with a significance far beyond the essential vacuity of the place..it's important to them..and it's important to me that's it's seem as the sham that it is.That's my reason anyway...I find bathos very entertaining..the sight of jumped up little monkeys getting on their high-horse (donkey in a couple of cases) and falling flat on their faces whenever they've got to defend themselves is manna to me...there ya go.
Come on MF - waddya is a lost cause and I wish the UT wasn't constantly being dragged up over there - it brings the trolls over here. Although I do wonder whether fans of MIE, for example, over there have any idea of the unpleasantness he's capable of when he's not moderated? BBI take your point - and yes, I can live with the rich not getting CB too. My anxiety is that it's setting a precedent we will regret in the future.
PhilB - yeah taker your point about ebay.But the synchronicity of our conversation helps me...it comes back to me where I saw the legal reference I now seek with BB's help.Came across it in a specialist legal text book written by a very senior District Auditor way back n the 1970.s published (unusually) by HMSO. Excellent read (if only I could recall its title) for those interested in obscure quaint notions like the public interest. Could well be out of print these days - certainly will be after the Audit Commission are privatised as per current plansI can see the book in me minds eye in fact I think I may even have an 'improperly acquired' copy of it amongst my books......problem is my books have been in boxes in my daughters cellar in Manchester for the last 10 years...Will try and get some more poppies up for you later
"Come on MF - waddya is a lost cause"but it keeps staggering on..when it collapses and I've tugged the last jaffa cake from it's cold dead hands I'll stop
MFAs far as I can tell, because I don't go over to waddya that often, a lot of the posters there hardly ever bother to comment on anything else.All the best posters on other threads don't seem to post on waddya much either.
Sheff - the universality point you make is important and concerns me too.The aversion to dealing with the deficit by raising income tax drives them and may help undo them too.Glad to read that you can now stomach a glass, or so, of red.
"..when it collapses and I've tugged the last jaffa cake from it's cold dead hands I'll stop"Sheer class!
MFwhen it collapses and I've tugged the last jaffa cake from it's cold dead hands I'll stopWell, ten out of ten for sheer bloody mindedness. But is it worth it? I suppose it could be seen as a perverse kind of sport..
Mornin' all and viva Monkeyfish!Joke of the Week: Sandi Toksvig, News Quiz:"the Tories - the people who put the "n" into cuts".
great stuff shaz - other london-based peeps, 27 or 28 suit? will be nice to meet people so i stop picturing them as (for example) actual wombats...
There are ninety-twelve other articles that can be commented on every day Yes, and many, many of them are shite and appallingly moderated, whence the inequity about CiF BB. As well u no. A *few* - by no means all - stalwarts on Waddya actually like that status quo and have gone on record many a time saying so, like mimsyish little prep school head girls and boys. A lot of people here don't think that's: 1)interesting or 2)a good approach to journalism). The likes of Kiz and Bru positively applaud the cack-handed, inept, witless moderation and editorial choices as long as they can waste entire days at tax-payers expense having hissy fits and stroking eachothers' hair. Fine. But call it what it is. It's a whist night in Bournemouth, a golf club bar, a coffee morning, a day centre, a holding tank for the chronically puffed-up and clueless.See ya later, got things to do.
But MF, aren't there more important things to destroy than Waddya?There are right-wing Alf Garnett idiots all over the place these days, doing real, palpable damage just by their sheer weight of numbers, getting hundreds of recommends from somewhere-or-other and making it look like their misanthropic "starve and sterilise the poor" views are the accepted majority.It would be so much more valuable to take pot-shots at those arseholes, in the scheme of things, than to worry about whether Kiz and Bru are talking about white stilettos, surely?
I would be up for a London meet, Phil. I know I am in chelmsford for the day on 28th though which would make it more difficult.
Sandi Toksvig, News Quiz:"the Tories - the people who put the "n" into cuts". lol! that's cheered me up.
I might be able to do a late October meet up in London if someone was willing to give me a bed for the night, it is the only place you can get to from here relatively cheaply.
27th sounding better?(and I'll have had a big lunch with the APs that day, so that will help)poppies up on the gallery. may need to tweak. may then need to resist urge to tweak more. hmmmm.
It made me laugh too Sheff, Sandi Toksvig may be the poshest woman ever but I used to love the double act she did with Alan Coren on Call My Bluff.As a doley I can tell you the quality of daytime TV has gone right down since those days.
Excellent painting Philippa, I wish I was creative.Is it sad that I know what APs are because I read about it being used as a kind of middle class shibboleth rather than actually having read the book?
i can't even remember if it's from coot club or swallows and amazons. or somewhere else.they've just always been the aged ps. it started as a joke when they weren't and now it's stuck...
News quiz at 12.30 on R4 Jenn - usually good for a few laughs and boy do we need them these days.
I wasn't having a go Philippa just saying that I might read the wrong books. ;)I first came across it in one of the Susan Cooper Rising of the Dark books which are probably as middle class as you can get.Apparently it is from Great Expectations and the Welsh farm boy (in the Cooper book) has to explain to the posho English kids that yes even poor people read Dickens.
ah, that would explain that then - the kids in the coot club would definitely have read dickens (heheheheheh).(unlike me)(heheheheheheeh)(OK, i read one or two but they're just so bloody depressing)....
Too true Philippa, I read Oliver Twist after seeing the film and bloody hell it was miserable.
BeautifulBurnoutI might add - you also seem to be ingoring the issue that MF, Hank and others were banned from CiF. Why do you think they were banned ? The C word ? Random personal abuse ? Trolling ? That's what the diwit concensus is over there, ably propped up by many other regulars - they brought it upon themselves.But that's not the truth is it ?So - if it *is* that rubbish, then yes it's perhaps worth rising above, leaving behind, but it's also certainly ripe for critique, ridicule and exposure for the complacent little pile of spunk it is - as often and as much by anyone who so choses.
I don't have much of an opinion of Waddya and Cif in general, but considering the fact that this website arose from the ashes of some peoples treatment on said site it might be a bit naive to call people out for revisiting it.And lets face it, sometimes it is a bit boring but a lot of the time it is very funny.It is boring at the moment, I think the so called trolls need to raise their games.
A word in edge ways, then I'll get back to cutting the grass.There are reasons why some people achieve distinction as commentors and others don't. Reasons not unconnected with clarity of mind, soundness of judgement, patience, reason, acuity and the wherewithal to express thought.The trouble is, 90% - perhaps more - of would-be scribblers fail to meet these criteria, and it winds up the remaining 10%. Big time. Monkeyfish is despairing of the smug, bitchy and banal mediocrity that, by seeking to pass off as insight, traduces even the good name of meaningless pap. BB's right, though: 'tis best ignored. Rise above it, like me....
BBI'm not looking for a scrap with you but how long did it take for you to 'see the light' as far as your willing participation in your ongoing spat with Bitey went?Certainly in the time i've posted with the UT i've seen you NOT following your own good advice on many occasions and you may well have been perfectly justified.I absolutely understand why some people here have issues with the likes of MIE,Sprouts and KIZ.I for instance can't look at any of MIE'S avatars without wanting to deck the racist bastard.And when i see the three of them using waddya to snipe at the UT and draw in other waddya regulars to back them up it pisses me off big time.Maybe i need to get some proportion here but whilst i choose to post on waddya i have a right to say something.FWIW i think the problem is that because the likes of MIE,Kiz and Sprouts are clearly boxing way out of their league when they take on the likes of MF,Hank etc it looks candy being taken from a baby.And perhaps people lose sight of the fact that these three have largely got away with some pretty unacceptable behavior and hiding behind the guise of victimhood they're actually using waddya to rub peoples noses in it. Anyways as i said i'm not looking to fall out with you over this and i actually have a 'cunning plan' to resolve this problem once and for all:-)
PhilB - I've put you a few more poppies up .There are a good dozen or more in the set to come(if you want them) but they take time to load and you'll have to be patient as Mungo is nagging me to walk not talk...
PBMonkeyfish is despairing of the smug, bitchy and banal mediocrity that, by seeking to pass off as insight, traduces even the good name of meaningless pap. I agree - but also agree it's best ignored.On that note must get off and prepare for a visit from a couple of wmd's that are posing as my grandchildren.
Jesus I have just read the It Gets Better article and I am so disgusted with the BTL comments that I am actually shaking.What about the fat kids,what about the gingers. what about those who have freckles, what about, what about ad infinitum.Those kids who are either killed or choose suicide are being blamed.I fucking hate people.
Actually Peter, I think the whole thing's over-rated; I'd much rather spend time with people in real life - and for various reasons I don't really have time for any of this any more, apart from late at night. Tut it's still anyone's and everyone's right to call CiF for what it is. A failure. Somewhere that could have been a great combination of investigative journalism and satire.Instead, most of the time, one way or another, we get a combination, ATL and below, of nodding agreement with, and truculent defence of, the wider establishment. People really don't want to rock the boat. If they do, they get moderated into submission or banned.How "rude" of them.
oh Jennifer. Really.That's what it's there for. That's what CiF is.
"It would be so much more valuable to take pot-shots at those arseholes, in the scheme of things, than to worry about whether Kiz and Bru are talking about white stilettos, surely?"except that, in a very real sense, since CIF has chosen to engage with its users via its most devalued, degenerate and low brow channel, the likes of kiz and bru and the rest of the cognitively challenged little puppies who mass there do play a part in setting the moral and 'intellectual tone of the place..It's an exercise in consensus formation/ manipulation..government by selected focus group..you're hardly gonna select anyone who's capable of original or independent thought now are ya?..'you told us you wanted X, so here it is...'Now that X might turn out to be a Martyn exclusive on how it turns out that Spanish people speak Spanish or an open thread on fuckin gravy, is beside the point...the very existence of the place allows them to claim interaction...mutuality..or whatever bullshit name they wanna give it...that's why it must die and as for attacking the Alf Garnett types..been there, done that, got the ban..and as BW helpfully points out it wasn't for calling anyone a 'cunt' or an arsehole or a wanker or telling them to fuck their mothers...that kinda thing's the preserve of much loved ancient hippies or European intellectual heavyweights..from Wales
Cheers peopleAnd with that he fucked off
oh, deano, they're beautiful!(am having that last one where they're up against the sky)thank you! enjoy walk...
jen - agreed - it's a good article, and a good comment from you.
and a couple more.I like your work a lot philB - your special friend is in for a joy.must be away now.....And then some more on the drafting of me new psychodrama - "the slaying of that fucking Nurse Pratchrd like tosser" a drama in five vulgar scenes by deano30
Fair dos, BW and MF. It's not that I don't see your point, but rather that none of it will achieve anything, imo. The Graun are not going to change.PaulIt took me a long time realise, as it goes. But that was all about my own ego and insecurities. Having realised, and been able to overcome it, perhaps sharing the way in which I managed to do it with others will help defuse some of the explosions. Letting things go is never easy. Ever. So the answer is - yes I did used to fight with Bitey and now I don't. And I feel better for it, ta. :o)
philippa (I often want to call you Pip,(I blame James)) I generally don't comment on Cif articles because I feel that they are trying to get comments by being massively controversial but the BTL on that article gave me the heave.I think I am going to stop reading their comment bait articles.
Any news from medve? He's in Hungary isn't he? Looks like there might be another breach in the walls of that red sludge reservoir - a catastrophe for Hungary. they get 80% of their drinking water from the Danube.
Medve made one brief post here on UT a few days ago en passant
Paul i actually have a 'cunning plan' to resolve this problem once and for all:-)Want to borrow my grandchildren?
"The Graun are not going to change."Is that ever a reason not to be angry ? And express that anger ? Listen BB, I like you, and am well aware of your phobia about confrontation, but don't make it into a philosophy. It won't wash.
jen - i think i'll stay off that one, now have established something approaching equilibrium...best not take any chances.
Sheff the way that the drinking water of a whole country has been destroyed puts the lie to the global climate change deniers mob. It is so disheartening.So many people are going to die because we had to have our power and convieniences (sp).Toxic sludge (its on my exam) is something we should all be ashamed of, it is all our fault.
"So the answer is - yes I did used to fight with Bitey and now I don't. And I feel better for it, ta. :o)"but we're not all Buddhists
BW and MFTrue. True.
joke from the News quiz to cheer you up Jenn"At least Osborne looks like he's lived - just not in the last 200 years."
I've given up on hoping for anything much from the groan in either its paper or virtual incarnations BW. I used, in my naivety, to think it was a decent leftish newspaper. Silly me. Thats why I think expending energy on challenging its values is probably a waste of time.But hats off to those who keep the faith - whether I think they go about it in the best possible ways, or not.
Strange thing is, Bitterweed, is that though we come at this from different angles - I'm accused of going against the grain, you of pushing out the boat - we encounter the same result: an amorphous centrist grouping that subsumes the meaning of Left and Right politics. My debate with CiF - assuming I can say I've had one - is that real politics is no longer about benefits or taxation or the level and scale of public services, since those issues have largely been settled (give or take a bit of tinkering); it's about defenders and enemies of open societies. That's where the really interesting political football is being played out.
" Listen BB, I like you, and am well aware of your phobia about confrontation..."BW me learned mate BB is steeped in the adversarial system it's the theoretical basis of the fucking legal system.The ECHR even says something about it, and 'equality of arms', being part of the defining charactersitics of a "fair trial" All those bastard thieving pimps (BB excepted) who inhabit the laws murky seedy cloisters are happy experts at throwing shite and muck in your eyes. They do it for a living....not that I'm biased you understand. I once stood beyond a lady barrister on a tube platform and sneezed very loudly...............sadly some bastard saved her from falling under the train. But I did put a hanky over me mouth.Still come the revolution we'll have all the bastards sterilised (BB excepted)Fuck Mungo is chewing me socks with me feet in emlatersWill email you Comrade BW as requested, and you too with a note of appreciation "We the People"
SheffWant to borrow my grandchildren? LOL! You'll probably find this hard to believe but i'm actually quite good with toddlers and stroppy teenagers.Maybe they see a kindred spirit in me.Good luck :-)
Gawd, NoliMeTangerine appears (on waddya) to be inviting people over to the UT.PB real politics is no longer about benefits or taxation or the level and scale of public services, since those issues have largely been settled (give or take a bit of tinkering); it's about defenders and enemies of open societies. That's where the really interesting political football is being played out.A very contentious statement PB that i don't have time to argue with at the moment but wanted to mark it nevertheless.
"... is that real politics is no longer about benefits or taxation or the level and scale of public services.."He says as the bastards slash the benefits and refuse to consider just taxation.Braken our kid - it ain't over till the fat lady changes her knickers.
Hello. Did you know that if you google 'UT' it's mostly University of Texas stuff you get? By eventually googling 'blog untrusted' your site was the first hit, so here I am.It's an interesting discussion about Cif. As a relatively new poster there(but sporadic long time reader), it all seems a bit weird. If anyone is familiar with the excellent TV show 'Caprica' this place seems to be the Taurons while the rest of 'You Tell Us' appear to be the self-obsessed, complacent, deluded denizens of the other eleven colonies of Kobol who are unaware that their worlds are about to be totally destroyed. (Apologies for the nerdish Battlestar Galactica analogy, but you can google it.)monkeyfish's views seem to be sensible regarding YTU, and I've been a bit frustrated myself on that score, so I'd like to reproduce my recent comment there in case it's deleted as it is a criticism of jessicareed and by extension the very silly and stupid people who monopolise that thread and render it unfit for purpose. It is, as monkeyfish, says a more serious issue than just ignoring the time-wasters and egotists and letting them talk about heels and gravy and strenuously call for banning everyone else. My gripe is this. The Guardian commissioned and printed a disgusting article about public servants and now simply refuse to redress the balance although they promised to do so. I can only assume that in the frenzied Cif blur of one inconsequential, poorly-written article after another, they safely assume that people just forget everything. (Where is all the indignation about the Roma now? Some people were breaking their polished fingernails posting their outrage about that a few weeks ago, and now it's all gravy and gingernuts. I guess the Roma problem was solved.)Or perhaps the civil service thing is just their editorial line? Backing the Tory cuts? Anyway, here was my post:Regarding the 'functionality' of You Tell Us, and commissioning articles, I posted this here on Oct 7:Actually, I'm now reminded of this exchange on WDYWTTA on 9 September following the appalling anonymous article "I'm tired of witnessing civil service inefficiency".bettystanton: Can I therefore please suggest that Cif commission another article on Civil Service 'inefficiency and wastage' by someone with some real credentials and a real name? The 'efficiency' and cost of privatisation and outsourcing of Civil Service functions could perhaps also be addressed. Oh, and could we have some facts as well. JessicaReed: bettystanton - we will. bettystanton: JessicaReed, thanks. I'll look forward to it.Whatever became of that article, I wonder? Or did I just totally miss Cif's promised response to the fact-free hatchet-job on the Civil Service that they commissioned from a young temporary agency worker with minimal experience of working in the public sector?Since then JessicaReed has posted 29 times on this thread. She has replied to peterbracken, Paulbj, GoloMannFan, Brusselsexpats, BenCaute, Hotsnail, mediocrity511, Turmiderxusst, lightacandle, MartynInEurope, gigolo, and spambodyguard on topics as diverse as Yoda's voice on GPS, overpopulation and gravy. What she has not done is replied to my two recent comments which very reasonably queried why Cif promised a 'right of reply' article to a hatchet-job on the Civil Service over a month ago, and has not yet done so. Even a simple acknowledgement that no such article would be forthcoming would be preferable to totally ignoring one of the few comments on this thread which actually suggested a concrete article. It really does seem as though inconsequential banter (whether it annoys certain trolls or not) is the real function of this thread.Thanks for the space.
bleah, shopping trip.vibe comprehensively harshed.see you later
bettystanton"I can only assume that in the frenzied Cif blur of one inconsequential, poorly-written article after another, they safely assume that people just forget everything. "Yes.==Sorry for the jibe BB, had some very bad news about a good friend just this lunctime, am perhaps not 100%.
Deano, PB, will come back to that later. Have got to fuck off for a while. Take it easy.
PB eek if what you say is true (and I don't think it is) then we are all doomed.I tend to think we are doomed anyway.20 generations from now, when they unearth our skeletons, they will be laughing at us and our free market gibberish.They will laugh at us worrying about house prices while we are releasing toxic sludge into rivers.We are ridiculous and hopefully our descendants will realise it.Sadly I don't think we will have any.
Sorry Sheff..but I want an answer. No doubt I'll be deleted soon and, let's face it they all nip over anyway...Open Invitation to all those on waddaya who despise my 'abuse'"NoliMeTangerene9 October 2010 1:16PMMartynWhy does nobody recommend your posts?Think it's the fact that you happily mooch about suggesting people enjoin sexual congress with their mothers; wishing malignant tumours on them; showering them with racial pejoratives...and then call others hypocrites because they choose to ignore some hypothetical spam 'ethical code'...hope you get another gig ATL soon..fuck knows.. that's just what the world needs"NoliMeTangerene9 October 2010 1:45PMIncidentally..I'd just like to try and guage opinion here...I'm sure it'll be gone soon enough but could people tell me if my post addressed to Martyn 1:16pm falls into the bracket of "hatred and bile" that I'm so often accused of?I mean, after all..all my accusations are true, he's never bothered to justify or apologise for his actions...and I'd say that it is one of my more robust efforts. Is it really hatred and bile...I confess I'm no longer sure. Maybe KT could venture an opinion...you're a bit of an expert...seriously..what do you think?..you do make the accusation all the timePSany response of the "why should I engage with the likes of you?" variety will tell me all I need to know:ie. "erm..oh shit..what am I going to say now?..I might look a bit silly if I say NO...and even sillier if I say YES"
"Monkeyfish is despairing of the smug, bitchy and banal mediocrity that, by seeking to pass off as insight, traduces even the good name of meaningless pap. Strange thing is, Bitterweed, is that though we come at this from different angles - I'm accused of going against the grain, you of pushing out the boat - we encounter the same result: an amorphous centrist grouping that subsumes the meaning of Left and Right politics. That's where the really interesting political football is being played out."I'm in two minds, what is the most sorrowful thing - that people think Bracken can write well, or that he thinks he can?
??? bitterweed has replied to me but my post did not seem to go through and I can't see it myself.
I think a post of mine has been scoffed by the spam folder - it was a question to Hank about taxation so probably eaten because it was so boring. Can anyone get it out?
Bitterweed, regards for your friend, and best hopes.
Ignore above post - i seem to have posted it on waddya by mistake. no doubt bitey will have fun with that!!
Peter BrackenInteresting...strangely I've got a lot of time for Popper myself but.."My debate with CiF - assuming I can say I've had one - is that real politics is no longer about benefits or taxation or the level and scale of public services, since those issues have largely been settled (give or take a bit of tinkering); it's about defenders and enemies of open societies."I really don't think you can separate the two into distinctive spheres..in fact I'm fairly sure that in the type of society you might readily designate open; discussion of alternatives to or opposition the current corporate economic hegemon are to all intents and purposes closed..."There is no alternative" look at cif for instance..mind you in saying that, I'm possibly getting too close to a Chomskian analysis of manufactured consent and I'm guessing Chomsky doesn't exactly sit well with you.Off out anyway..check back alter
@SheffOh, shame, I just answered it there! Anyway, here's a link I found about the separate taxation thing.
Hello BettyWe have a spam folder that periodically eats posts at random - it may be there. When someone with admin rights appears they'll rescue it.
I have a horrible feeling that Bracken will become 'commentor of the year'.If he does then Cif might as well merge with Mail online.sHypatia something or other linked to the mail multiple times to prove that benefits claimants were scroungers and as far as I can see Cif isn't far behind.
I'm having posts gobbled up here like Martyn with a box of doughnuts..I give up
Thanks Peter I know sod all about how the tax system works. Will read it later - must go as family is beating the door down.
Jen - for employment, it really is who you know. I got three excellent jobs through people I met at my local bar. Sometimes you might have to kiss up to wankers, but in this case it was luckily a couple of outstanding blokes.Duke - just decided to find out whence your name/avatar arises this morning. Me? The XIIIth Duke of Wybourne in a blog populated by lonely monkey nuts? With my reputation? :-)Philippa - 'putain difficile à regler' - made I larf! Nice to see you about. Think you need to make it to one of our piss-ups - when are in Blighty?Oh - just seen your post re Oct - are you staying long enough to make it to Leam on Nov 6/7?What's the asking price for the book? Know a couple of people who work for charities - one of them works for a struggling charity, but the other is a rich bastard.Right, posting this before finishing thread....
BW - I didn't take it as a jibe (or from MF either), just as fair comment, and something for me to ponder on. Hope your mate is ok.(I am lurgified and crotchety meself)Deano, come the revolution, you will know me by the copy of Das Kapital tucked under me wig! :o)Actually, very often its the lawyers who foment the revolutions, only to be topped by the proletariat after they have served their purpose. Sigh.
Thauma, you found your job through mixing with people, how do you think you would have got on if you coudn't get on with people, couldn't leave the house?That is me, I very rarely leave my house and it takes me weeks to build up to it.
MF - the sight of jumped up little monkeys getting on their high-horse (donkey in a couple of cases) and falling flat on their faces whenever they've got to defend themselves is manna to me...there ya go.Yeah ... it's a bit like Don Quijote without the noble aims. Must admit it fascinates me in a car-crash sort of way.Habib - "the Tories - the people who put the "n" into cuts". Brilliant!Hmm, London piss-up. May have to work that weekend, but if not could possibly make it for a pissed-up lunch on Sat 27th? Can get train in but wouldn't know what to do after that! (No doubt Google would be my friend.)Btw, Jen, have you noticed that some other bastard has nicked your avatar on Cif?BW - had some very bad news about a good friend just this lunctimeSorry to hear that, mate, best wishes to you and your friend.Just rescued Betty's post and one of MF's from spam folder - few others but they appear to be duplicates ... let me know if anything's missing!
JenThauma, you found your job through mixing with people, how do you think you would have got on if you coudn't get on with people, couldn't leave the house?It would obviously be extremely difficult. :-(I presume that since you *are* looking for a job that things have got better in that regard? Or is it just that you are bloody being forced to, ready or not?You still planning on coming to Leam for the piss-up in Nov? Offer of spare room still stands! We are now thinking of kicking off the partying on Sat 6th, as BW can't stick around late on the Sunday.
Sheff - sorry, don't see any posts of yours in spam folder.Betty - welcome! Funny, I believe the proxyspamavatars have accused you in the past of being Hank, Monkeyfish, Scherfig, BW or someone else on here!Off for a bit....
Thauma I am still planning to come down south for BW gig.I am ashamed of my behaviour recently but believe it or not I am very nice in person.
I don’t look at Guardian Comment much nowadays. If I give my time to making a comment, even if it isn’t a great piece of literature (which would take a few days/weeks longer – in my case), I don’t want to find it’s then been vanished just because it gave too many details (politely) of why the article is based on shifting sands – of at least something very shifty – or (politely) explaining why the ‘f’ should be a ‘t’.My family have read The Guarn for decades (rather unusually for here), as it seemed better than the alternatives, and because there can be good news reporting, with more about overseas – after which, I’ve always found it partly nonsencial – a sort of pretend socialism for the upper middle classes – where they can feel good about caring, without getting too close to the riffraff about whom they profess to care; but I never realised until recently how much of that to which they profess is nothing more than a stance (learning is a lifelong process).My experiences with attempting to become a Cif commentator made me realise that The Guarn only like to make some socialist-sounding noises, without going in for any real substance – so one really wonders why they bother. But sometimes the comments here get me wandering over to see to what they refer - and I've found myself looking at Lloyd Marcus – because I’m thinking – why is there a Teabummer’s Blog being featured in the ‘liberal’ Gaurn? – oh, it was Matt Seatons’ notion – that explains it.Is the right-wing press full of articles giving an equal voice to the ‘liberal’ opinion? No. Why should a so-called ‘liberal’ paper keep leaning over backwards (or other directions) to give voice to the most abhorrent of right-wing views? – surely there are more than enough resources already out there for anyone who wants to read that sort of stuff?Then I shouldn’t have started reading (some of) the comments - my stomach isn’t really strong enough for this – have hardly recovered from seeing Cameron in full spout – so eager to keep all of the wealthy/banksters/pfi-trippers in permanent benefit dependence, to the detriment of everyone else. I often despair of people really – okay, let them find out what happens when they’re just unlucky and lose their job and can’t find another one, or get sick and there’s no assistence – or that it’s not possible for a few thousand people to get into the few jobs going locally – one got lucky (so they could all have become firefighters then) – and immediately condemns everyone else who didn’t make it (who definitely wouldn’t deserve to have their fires put out). But then, in the midst of my despair of all of the vileness; I meet good, ordinary people doing what they can for others in spite of all of the junk - only they tend not to be journalists. The Guarn could, if they chose, write article after article showing up Atos and all the other big benefit fraudsters - really hard-hitting articles – there’s no lack of material after all - but what is produced along those lines is always rather wishy washy and not too noticable – a sort of token gesture – while those involved in its implementation are given lying-about-it, big in-your-face articles – for fairness. They should be ashamed.So, while avoiding real exposures of the Labour-LibCon-con welfare policies, about which they produced many previous articles saying what a good socially equalising thing it was to remove the income of the incapacitated and send them to the Job Centre – well known for their sensitive handling of the problems of the unemployed; or under the tender care of such as A4E, whose increasingly very-weathly chairman Emma Harrison they’ve happily permitted to write much complete dross about how wonderful is her outfit – about which, strangely, the victims – I mean clients – never seem to agree… we get – a Tea Party Blog. Says it all really.
The minnie wmds are parked in front of cbeebies - a few minutes peace and a brew....phew!Jenn - I'm sure you're lovely and look forward to meeting you at BWs gig. All the UTers I've met so far have been charming and good fun irl, so you won't be disappointed.
DeanoDLA recognises that disabled people have a right to a social life - to mix with people and to afford transport and other access costs. All other benefits are assumed to be short term - to tide you over until you start to work again. This second approach suggests the the unemployed - the non contributors do not deserve or merit a social life - for this reason the benefits are seen as indulgent and the recipients as scroungers. This obviously ignores the fact that there are no jobs and the evidence of real illness. Appeals against refusal of benefit question the philosophy and the denial of a limiting condition. The challenging of the Unum model and the integrity of those administering the system become intertwined. The model is wrong - but can only be challenged on individual basis to show that this person is limited in some way. The malice and reward orientated behaviour of the assessors can be challenged by showing they have misused the model. Also have to allow for the fact that the questions themselves have twisted the model in terms of variable conditions and resulting difficulties such as inability to sustain activity over a period of hours. I have accompanied 2 people to appeal - physical conditions. Written several reports for people with MH problems - keep it simple and evidence based. I have found that appeals people are, on the whole, aware of the problems with the model and assessment techniques.
bettystanton I can only assume that in the frenzied Cif blur of one inconsequential, poorly-written article after another, they safely assume that people just forget everything. (Where is all the indignation about the Roma now? Some people were breaking their polished fingernails posting their outrage about that a few weeks ago, and now it's all gravy and gingernuts. I guess the Roma problem was solved.)I would agree with this and say that it is also an inherent problem with any news site which has become ingrained with the idea of the news as a competition of speed, which would mean pretty much all MSM sites.Of course, once you couple this with the recommend button and the idea of people having an online "status" the whole thing starts to become ludicrous.Some people have said that unless their post is within the first few on any thread, they cannot be bothered to post at all, for fear of not being noticed in the scrabbling of the groundlings.People will also abandon any thread, however it is going, in order to spill their brainz on the newest offering.News has become commodified and now the people who post their interpretations of what it means have become click-fodder.When Natalie Hanman made her first outing, she showed how things are viewed by the CiF management team.One of the first comments she picked on was from hermionegingold, which said something like, "Welcome and good luck."Hanman said something like, "Why, thank you Hermione. I would really value anything you have to say about how I should do my job. Perhaps you could point out the things which you think CiF does brilliantly and suggest any areas where we are pretty excellent, but have scope for even the tiniest smidgenette of improvement."To her credit, hermionegingold replied with something like: "Dunno. Can't say I'm really that bothered."Which is, of course, the mindset which CiF seeks to engender: uninquisitive, uncritical, unimaginitive and non-confrontational.Their ideal poster would be Stanley Unwin. Words which seem to be real and have something which seems to be meaning, but really just a stream of connected letters on the screen which say and do nothing.
I'm in England at the end of October, so I'd be well up for a drink in London.@bbBut I stick by my guns - if there is £50k floating about in a household, they don't need £2k a year in hand-outs from the state when so many at the bottom of the heap are suffering. End of. We have to keep our eye on the ball, though, and remember that the real enemy is those on £500k, who are frankly delighted to see those on 20 and 50 at each others' throats. It's always a great achievement when you convince a household with 50k, which isn't exactly an obscene amount of money these days, that they have more community of interest with the poor than with the rich.It's so difficult because they like to delude themselves that they're actually winners in the system, rather than losers, although less so than others.
Good post @ 15:36 Atomboy.
Atomlode Boyitude, with deep deep joy we read of the spundlyudinous opines of one and sundry. Woth a grandiness of the common perbold, and a nod of the bat to the mouse spam avaloder, we can in much marckle, marple and manifold say in all comfidence that you have bit the snail on the nose!
Whaddya's just this thread, you know.@turmExcellent. But can you do that in real time? I miss the Professor.
"Waddya's just this thread, you know?"Made I LOL. Turm - you beat me to it! I was just about to try and do the exact same thing with my post, but I would never have managed it as well as you did. Or it would have taken me about half an hour. Brilliant.Oh, and Spike again - yes, you are right about the £500k-ers. We need to find another way to fix their wagon...
Just a bit of fun : )Nah Spike about half speed, I've been giggling at Unwin since I was about 5, happy memories...
turmImpressed!Israeli settlers really don't help their cause do they, or perhaps driving over small boys - evening stone throwing ones is acceptable to them.Settler runs down towo small boys - in picsStory here
BiterweedSorry to hear you've had some bad news.Chin up mate:-)Betty StantonBig welcome to you!
LOLIt get's really daft this PC stuff.On the SciFi channel they have just announced "Warning - this programme contains mild language".Mild language?!Oh I say, this is jolly spiffing. One wonders how mild the language might be, that it frightens the old horses, what?
Leni - good advice thanks.Yea we have a number of simple (but sting in the tail) procedural points to make (plain breach of rules of natural justice for example)some possible legalChallenges about inconsistencies arising from duties under Disability Discrimination Acts (and after Oct Equality Act) Failure to give consideration to Ministerially endorsed guides/good practice etcMate had registered disability under old 1944 Disabled Persons... Act legal status carried forward under 1995 and 2005 DDActs and and failures to give cognizance to advice thereinbut as you wisely say to start with much comes down to (opinion masquerading as) alleged evidence.Happily mate can afford to stand the loss and happy to make a big fuss and have a little mischief in return.We are talking about £6k after tax adjustments - since he is eligible for OAP in about 18 months and thus ceases IB anyway.We are betting that "they" will end up spending tens of thousands to try to save six...It will be easy to pull the central threads of the case out in simple words for the formal appeal documents and then wrap it up in thousands of words of supplementary requests for information they will obliged to consider and respond to.Causing them a headache or two along the way is part of the quid pro that the awkward squad always seek to inflict.Me and mate are of that post war generation for whom the holocaust was a mind boggling shock which informed our political awakening as young men.I started out as a young man with the view that the bastards might well get and beat me but whatever, whenever I would never ever go quietly and me mate is of the same school.But as I said above for anybody else reading here don't try this at home and don't contemplate following our style of attack unless you can stand close encounters with the asylum.When we loose we might start a business Headbangers Anon Inc.Your advice and observations on the subject are good Leni.
PhilB - all the poppy photos are up.I'll try to remember to delete them when they've contributed to your inspiration/ideas.Ought to take some pictures of Me best Acers as they develop their autumn colours (coming on well at the minute).Hope the news about your mate BW is not too grim.
A middle class Mama's wail of pain
pmslthe first line of that article Sheff...>>It isn't often that even>>George Osborne feels me>>with despair.Oh Grauniad, my Groiniard!
The IB or ESA Appeals Tribunal people are (so far) independent, and they usually just ask someone about ‘their normal day’ and the way their problem affects them. The DWP mostly don’t bother to show, so it’s a lawyer and a medical person there, for whom whether the DWP win their case or not is irrelevant. For the written appeal that’s sent in, it’s best carefully to go through every detail of the Atos medical report and refute it with details – as many details as possible; and back it up with medical evidence, especially a doctor’s letter.It is, of course, daft that no medical evidence is permitted for the assessment, but then it is for the appeal. A doctor is unduly influenced by his patient it seems – but an Atos doctor is deemed independent of influence – even knowing that Atos require as many failures as possible. The high number of successful appeals shows that they are trying to be objective. They must know – seeing so many cases - that Atos are often producing pieces of fiction, so it’s a matter of finding out as much as possible about how to present a case.The WCA however is being set up in a way that very few will have a case to win – in fact, being able to respond at all will show that someone isn't incapacitated - and thereby (it is said) everyone in the land, whatever their condition, will have gained equal opportunities for wealth creation.
"A kidnapped British aid worker in Afghanistan has been murdered by her captors during an attempted rescue by Nato troops."So leads the Guardian. I don't blame the Taliban. I blame Blair and Bush. They effectively pulled the trigger. This stupid woman was a legitimate casualty of war.
MoonwaveIf the Government do try an nobble the Appeals Process for people who have failed their WCA assessement with ATOS i'm hoping that will be the straw that breaks the camels back as far as the GMC are concerned.For i can't beleive that things have sunk so low even in this country that GP's and other medical professionals will continue to stand by passively whilst their patients suffer.
That article has really pissed me off, Sheff.Fucking ordering online groceries from Ocado and having a cleaner in twice a week when she is a full-time mum-at-home with a car and only two kids. And now she moans about losing 30 quid a week.FFS.
"Which is, of course, the mindset which CiF seeks to engender: uninquisitive, uncritical, unimaginitive and non-confrontational."Don't be fatuous and stupid at the same time, AtomBoy.Cif's output might sometimes resemble a tosser's heaven, but some of the comment is top notch. I write for it, FFS.
peter brackenThanks for the recent attempts at humour but don't give up the day (trading) job just yet.
PS Is your ATL career still on hold now that Natalie Hanman is in the seat of power and - what was it you said? - loathes you?Even you get lost in the noise below the line.At least, I assume you do, since I haven't noticed you for weeks.
PeterBCif's output might sometimes resemble a tosser's heaven, but some of the comment is top notch. I write for it, FFSI find it strangely reassuring that as the world crumbles around us your ego remains intact rather like StPauls after the blitz.:-)
"At least, I assume you do, since I haven't noticed you for weeks."But it matters more that you've missed me., AB.
OH MY GOD.I'm about halfway through the article Sheff linked to, and my head is about to explode.
I am sure you are being simply honest, Peter, although, of course, that is not quite what I said.How is the good behaviour regime going?Have you had to place yourself on the naughty step?
Actually, AB I think PeterB's humorous asides and modest attempts at self deprecation should be encouraged - he could be become quite good at it!
Sheff, BB, thaumaturge: yeah, sinking so low as to have to have her groceries delivered from Sainsbury's rather than Waitrose must really hurt. What next - having to go to the shop and do it herself? What will the neighbours think?
SheffI agree completely.I just think it should be encouraged by sneering.
Before I have to go, did the large-as-life P-Brax look as much like Peter Hain as he did in the picture posted from Bitterweed's revels?
No AB, I'm free to post at will. But Cif spins like a gyroscope and just now it needs to find a new orbit: it's present trajectory is so dull not even I can find a fresh foothold.It's true that Hannan despises me, but she won't get in my way. Just watch.
peter brackenYes, I now begin to see how serious things have become.If CiF has sunk to lower spheres than even you inhabit, things are looking pretty grim.If you get another gig, drop a note over here. I will miss it on the other place, for sure.
PSIt's true that Hannan despises me, but she won't get in my way.Simply getting her name right might show a measure of goodwill on your part.You might even get another 85 squid.Woohoo!
"Simply getting her name right might show a measure of goodwill on your part."Not really, AB, it just exposes you for what you are: an illiterate, inattentive and painfully irrelevant blag merchant.No hard feelins, mind.
Casualty's on at the same time as the BBC4 World Cinema Awards tonight. Why do I feel as if the Beeb is saying to me, "Of course, if you're the sort of person who watches Casualty, you couldn't possibly be interested in world cinema".Anyway, BBC4 programmes are repeated, unlike BBC1's, so I'll catch it later.Must sort out the IP networking thing so I can watch IPlayer in France.* * *So what about this London bash at the end of the month? Any suggestions as to the day/time/place?If I'm staying with my mates near Brighton, I'd probably have to get the last train at about 11. I don't think driving would be an option. :-)
Dammit, I really can't afford (y'know ... lifestylewise) another weekend on the piss! But now I'm getting all tempted. By the fucking Smoke!That fucking article really wound me up. I expect my comment to be deleted.
Spike - think my last train would be about 11 too. Philippa suggested 27th Oct. No ideas about where - but a Fuller's pub would be nice :o)
Not really, AB, it just exposes you for what you are: an illiterate, inattentive and painfully irrelevant blag merchant.Righty ho, matey boy.
MartynInEurope suggests some sensible measures to make waddya a lot more luvvie and nice:1. (As mentioned previously) only allow signed on users access to the recommend feature2. Audit trail recommends then recalculate recommends when the thread has clsoed3. When a thread closes then switch off the recommend buttonAnd for casual flaming or trolls?4. Restrictions on where users can post in the first 24 hours5. Out of hours restrictions for certain threads for new users e.g. WDYWTTA, I/P threads6. Restrictions on new users using certain threads (e.g. WDYWTTA) as the first port of call i.e. a blogosphere form of KYC, in this case, Know Your CommenterHe forgot to add: 7. No niggers! 8. People who never ever get recommended for their fatuous empty comments should write at least twelve articles a week for Cif about Spain and socialism and fascism and wibble, wibble, wibble ....I'm an intellectual you know.9. Free speech is not for the little people. It's only for me and my pretentious vacuous cyberfriends. Ban everybody else!
Jen - Montana has my e-mail address - shall we sort out arrangements?
27th October sounds fine to me. Unless other people would prefer a weekend night? How long's Philippa staying? I should be arriving at Newhaven late on the 24th. Not sure what I'm doing yet, since it depends on whether my republicdaughter's coming with me. She loves England, but she's moving into her first flat at some point soon and we still don't know when. If she isn't with me, I'll probably stay a couple of weeks and catch up with the family, mainly in Kent now. I'll have to remember the names of all my great-nephews and nieces (eleven of them now!).
Jesus Spike, no wonder your politics are pre-Cambrian.
Oh ... think I was looking at December ... certainly couldn't do a weeknight. But I'm not likely to make it anyway, so carry on...!
moonwave your knowledge/experience is very much consistent with what I'm learning.The statistics of success on appeal are greatly improved for those who are strong/capable enough of attending the appeal in person rather than putting the case in writing. The odds on IB appeals have been put at in excess of 50% if the appellant can attend.Have no info of the rates at the second (and much rarer) appeal to the Commissioners though.Does seem the ESA situation is more difficult though. All be academic with the intended one benefit approach of the future.
PeterBJesus Spike, no wonder your politics are pre-Cambrian.Not really, AB, it just exposes you for what you are: an illiterate, inattentive and painfully irrelevant blag merchant.What was that you said about AllyF making a lot of sense ?COUGH! SPLUTTER! CHOKE!
I can see why Bracken lost his job as a trader. His numeracy is as underwhelming as his writing skills. He seems to think there's something extraordinary about 11 great-nieces and nephews.3 siblings respectively have 3, 5 and 1 children.Those children have 2, 3, 3, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0 and 0 children. Making 11. So in total, an average of 1.66 recurring children for each of the 12 people in the first two generations.Of course, for the really big families here in France, you can't beat the bourgeois Catholics, who have vast numbers of children and politics as right-wing and retrograde as Bracken's.
X Factor comin up...can't waitWaddaya on its knees I see...uber "liberals" that they are..first sign of trouble...ratchet up security and surveillance...next week: Martyn and the Hermit suggest a neighbourhood watch scheme, CCTV and the right (as respected pillars of the community) to issue summary ASBOs and on the spot fines...oh the horror...the irony!!The Soap Opera continues...Next month Waddaya adopts Blairism as its official spam doctrine...kiz calls for a pre-emptive strike on Tehran and bru wonders whether aquamarine guided missiles are quite the thing the season...GIYUS calls them spam Neo-Con stooges and Constable Fencepost arrests him under newly drafted hate-speech legislation...after assuring us that GIYUS has gone too far this time with his vicious slurs...it's got nothing to do with stifling free expression..it's a matter of "common decency"Right..I'll give it a rest now. I've a date with Simon Cowell and the fragrant Cheryl
PaulI’m not aware of any indications that the GMC have any concerns about the activities of Atos doctors, or are about to do so.I have come across implications that the next move would be to try to restrict the appeals process in some way, but the reality is that the WCA to be implemented from April 2011 will in many ways effectively do that even without interference, as an appeal board will have to be confined by it in their decisions. Those being reassessed from IB were being given the usual IB form and its points to fill in, and then quietly assessed by the new stricter ESA form – not realising the criteria had changed - going in like lambs to the slaughter (as it were) – every step a piece of trickery. At least if they win their appeal, they get all monies owing returned (although someone can get into a lot of problems meanwhile). If someone appealing against being refused ESA wins their appeal – months later - they don’t get it backdated. It’s intended that the hardship involved should keep increasing. So much so that I’ve seen it commented that only those fit enough to keep going through these processes will still manage to stay on it. Saying it’ll get rid of fraud is nonsensical, as if someone is that good, they’ll hang in there. It’s the most vulnerable and needy who won’t stand a chance.Good luck with anyone getting the message through to the GMC that all of this is actually harmful to the individual – after all, this is being done to promote the well being of the sick and disabled – who are only imagining they’re not fit.DeanoYes, an appeal in person has a much better chance of succeeding, because the Tribunal can see the person and talk with them properly – only a representative from the DWP has any issue with the claimant, and it’s not generally worth their while to send someone. If possible, it’s best to get formal advice and have someone with experience fill in their forms.Also, the person appealing can take anyone with them for support and/or assistance. But those who act as representatives are now often not able to manage to accompany the person they advise, as they have so much bigger a work load; and those organisations offering advice for those on benefits are about to have their funding decreased.
Just been down to my local Tesco Metro for a bottle of red to tide me over the evening. In front of me in the queue for the self service checkout was a sight to behold - a young man - all youthful, grimey rebellion covered, in anarchist iconography - scanning his club card!I despair I really do - if youthful rebels need to make sure they've got their Tesco points before they take to the barricades what hope is there? I give up.
@SheffWe used to shoplift in my day. Don't know what the kids are coming to.We had a report on French TV the other night about a new thing in the UK where people can watch security camera footage and get a reward if they spot a crime. People really do love spying on each other over there these days, don't they? Is everyone actually happy to have their every move watched so that the odd youth half-inching a bottle of cider can be prosecuted?Fortunately, in France, there's still the memory of people denouncing Jews and Resistants during the Occupation, so that sort of délation is still a no-no, even if Sarko's lot do want to fill France with CCTV cameras, despite experience in the UK and other countries showing that they're extremely cost-ineffective in fighting crime, even if you don't give a monkey's about individual privacy.
Sheff, I refuse to shop at Tesco's, they treat their suppliers badly, their staff and their customers badly. I have been ripped off so many times in various ways and this area is a 'Tesco Town'. When the local One-Stop-Shop went up for sale it became a Tesco Express. How they allow this is beyond me as they have exactly the same stock in all shops (there are about 6 in this town). So there is no competition.As to the lady in dire straights - I too did a 65 miles each way commute as it happens to the other side of Cambridge so I know all about that aspect. Even after 40 years of working life mainly in the same sector in my recent incarnation as a public sector worker I earn all of 26k. That is after a higher degree and professional institutions membership. Not trying to blow my trumpet here but these folk who earn in excess of 44k and think they deserve every penny and therefore those that earn less must be dumb in some way really gets my goat.deano30 thanks for the welcome. To all those knowledgeable on the IB/ESA things, can I ask please how you think DLA will pan out? Will present recipients be re-assessed? Or will the rules apply only to new entries? You know of course that DLA is not an out of work benefit and in fact helps keep people in work. SO stopping it may in fact reduce the number of people in work who are deemed disabled. Strange but true.
I don't know about these days, but Tesco were also known for funding Israel, which is why I've never shopped there.
Coo. Here's something I hadn't heard before - the original version of a classic song, performed by its author. (Via Mick Hartley.)
BTW: if anyone wants to take their bank to court and expose them for the scum they really are, here's the link to a website that has all the information you need.http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/
IanG - you can sign up for some basic free info by email on this site:DLA - Information/Advice Site The more detailed information/advice/guides are available on subscription if you think it worth it about £19 a year. If you decide to take the subscription service you can get a £1.50 reduction if you type esa4278 in the coupon box which appears when taking the subscription. (I personally found a lot of info in the free emails which are offered as a bait. A hell of a lot of valuable information/advice on Incap/ESA/DLA which can take a lot of time to assemble yourself if you are starting from scratch is available if you need it and can afford the subscription) Personally I have no knowledge of DLA matters so I can't help.May be worth signing for the free stuff and then take it from there?
IanAs far as I have so far understood the published material around DLA - people claiming lower rate mobility due to anxiety about being in unfamiliar places alone will be withdrawn. Some will then also lose their disability premium. People lokely to be targetted areThose with walking difficulties who fear falling.Those with bladder control problems - may need help to reach loo etc. MH patients who include anxiety as a symptom in their claim. The visually impaired.I think the new medical test will look at their ability to walk - if they can walk about at home, in familiar surroundings etc. they will lose this component of DLA. The situation is not clear as yet but seems to depend upon the claimant being able to 'take advantage' of additional payment, the suggestion being that they need to be able to do this on their own. This is an odd definition of 'needing care' We need more clarification on this. This will apply initially to new claimants.
IanGNormally try and stay away from Tesco but was being lazy tonight. I hate giving my money to Lady Porter - not particularly because of her Israeli connections but mostly because of the way she gerrymandered Westminster council and sold off masses of the local council housing back in the 80s, then tried to wriggle out of her responsibility when it was discovered.Eventually she was caught for about 12m but the original figure was more like 40m. At one point she pled poverty I believe.Its true - Tesco is a blight.
Evening allMoonwaveYou touched on a point that a number of us here have talked about before.Namely that a combination of greater means testing and inability to either progress with the appeals process or attend the appeal in person is going to simply make large numbers of genuinely sick and disabled people 'disappear'.They won't be eligible for JSA and genuinely couldn't work even if they were offerred a job on a plate.So unless they have partners and families able to support them how will they live?I think it's right we should acknowlege that a small minority of people claiming disability benefits are clearly pulling a fast one.Whilst others who are genuinely sick/disabled may find work with the right level of support and in a fully employed economy.But as we've said here time and time again the Government's priority is to drive down the spending on disability benefits.And they clearly don't give a damn how many genuinely sick and disabled people sufferin the process.
Thanks guys for the info. The DLA aspect I claim is not about mobility as such and in fact it is hard for the problem I have make a successful claim, but by reading up beforehand it can be done. My wife also claims at a higher rate, again it is not strictly mobility and not mental health but is in fact to do with the old brain box.I gather that new claimants will be put through the mill first, then when they get round to it the existing claimants. I am hoping (expecting?) that with the gross disregard for applicant's actual problems and blatant trickery as detailed in an earlier post (thanks - was that deano30?), also the way a lot of appeals are won, that the whole sorry mess will collapse due to it's own inconsistencies. I also fail to see how even now when you are fit and well but over a certain age employment is almost impossible. I took to the Job centre a list of over 200 (or was it 300?) applications I made over a couple of months. I had around 3 or 4 interviews I think out of that. My big mistake was to launch my CV 'mission statement' with something like this'..having over 20 years experience developing...' etc. Putting my degree award year as 1994 also marked me out as 'old' but the biggest laugh was that even then I was over 40!Anyway, enough of my ramblings..
Ian You 'ramblings' are interesting.i am currently looking at the following issues. the rise in DLA and attendance allowance for pensioners is in a big part due to the increased numbers of peope living in their own homes rather than care facilities. Withdrawing part of their benefit may mean they need to give up living at home. How will this play into suggested policies for council tenancies no longer being for life and the closing of local authority care homes - they are being handed over to the private sector.This brings us back to the questions around impact on individuals and their families (carers) and the overall impact on social policy and dynamics. Many possible enforced changes which need careful scrutiny and observations to show exactly where the main stressors lie. Certainly on the poor - the wider context is yet unknown.
Hello, everyone. Frustrating afternoon here. About 1/2 of Cowpat Junction just went 2 hours without electricity -- the half that I live in. No access to all the distractions that keep me from getting things done around here, but no ability to use the things I need to use to get things done, either. Had to try to amuse myself with my son's Nintendo DS. My hand-eye coordination is terrible.
@IanG, @LeniI discovered last week that my local hospital has a policy of self-dialysis at home for kidney patients if it is at all possible. It's better for the patients, more efficient for the unit's time management, and has better outcomes. But it's clearly the more expensive option, and can require home help for those less able to manage the process. The unit has a counsellor of its own to help patients get any benefits assistance they may need.I have a bad feeling about what's going to happen to this policy after the cuts are implemented, both in terms of patient outcomes and in benefits support.
MontanaWe take our services so much for granted don't we - I get really angry when we lose water or electricity. Happens a lot here. Whole area needs infrastructure upgrading. Not too bad during day - can do other things but a nuisance after dark. Makes me wonder how man progressed at all in pre-electric days. Perhaps we should try living without it for perhaps three months and see if we become different people and rediscover older ways of living and forgotten pleasures.
Paul I don’t see how you can ever entirely eliminate fraud – look how much of it there is higher up – although, true, there nobody’s trying too hard to do anything about it.Sure, look out for it, but, as you say, this isn’t at all what it’s about – its just about decreasing benefits, and each time they fail, even with all of their trickery, to get rid of enough, they raise the bar again. With no concern at all what will happen to all of those who aren’t up to all of the jumping through the hoops, or don’t understand it all well enough. Those who haven’t got backup are indeed all too often going to be lost.So, yes, a part of our population is being vanished. What is happening to them? And what I say about it – repeatedly – is – this is real wickedness. IanGDLA was named in George Osbourne’s Emergency Budget as a benefit where savings could be made, and it is proposed that it also be assessed and reassesed in a way similar to ESA/WCA. For those on DLA, the reform will start in 2013, with only those with the highest medical need then qualifying. Hopefully, everyone here does understand that it is a positive benefit that often helps the disabled stay in work and live more independently - but it’s not certain that the government understand it! While for the right-wing press it will be more of getting the idle off of benefit and into work – the idle of intellect not being able to grasp that it will have the opposite effect.It can also effect carers, who may at the same time lose their benefit if the person for whom they care ceases to qualify for their disability benefit - even though they will still need the same level of care. All to be swallowed up in IDS’s proposed Universal Credit, having two parts :1. Universal Work Credit – for those out of work and those on very low wages. This would combine jobseekers allowance, income support, incapacity benefit and employment and support allowance.2. Universal Life Credit – which would cover ‘additional living expenses’ for those on low incomes. This would combine housing benefit, council tax benefit, disability living allowance, working tax credit and child tax credit.What all of this is going to mean in reality is not as yet clear – the rhetoric can always be made to sound good, but this is the ConLib-con party, so it probably won’t be at all good in reality.I also refuse, on principle, to use Tescos, or any other super-supermarket.I see my mid-afternoon comment has eventually been freed from the spam folder (blogger really doesn’t like me) - isn’t technology wonderful?Have to go now.
Moonwaveit is the overall lack of understanding around benefits displayed by this gvt. that amazes me. The cabinet seems to consist of people who lack the basic ingredient for policy design - that of social intelligence. This is something not in any way allied to intelligence as measured by IQ tests. IQ tests assume that high ability in language and arithmetic skills indicate a good general intelligence - the ability to understand, to react and interact in all situations. Total fallacy - but is the tool we all too often to measure people and their worth. One of the things that make me say "Grrrr" - and sometimes invokes a strong desire to bite people.
Paul3potato4 is 3p4 on UT. I have never considered him a troublemaker at all. Let the whole thing go - it just goes round and round with no resolution. x
@Paul: at the risk of getting involved (which I don't want to) just leave it mate. Really just let it go. You are tying yourself in knots and so is everyone else into the bargain.It is inevitable that there will be dis-agreements but sometimes it's best just to walk away. It doesn't mean you are wrong or that your adversery is right, it's just an acceptance that you agree to differ!
LeniI think for my own sanity it's better i if i don't post on waddya anymore.The level of stupidity there seems to go from bad to worse.No disrespect to you but if you were Black you perhaps would have a little bit more understanding.What Martyn has done is convince people on waddya that he called me the UT House Nigger in the context of a discussion about Malcolmn X.That he apologized but it was all a bit of misunderstanding.And the waddya regulars have swallowed that hook,line and sinker.You were there that night and you know he racially abused me after i responded to a post of his about WALES.And that he posted his clip of Malcolm X on waddya the day after to cover his back and rub my nose in it.Well i,m sorry Leni it would be nice for once if people gave me a bit of support rather than tell me to let things go all the time.I realize now why Habib was so angry with me for ages after my meltdown.But that night i was off my head and i'm genuinely not 100% sure what was said.And when i apologized to Habib it was heartfelt and it was important to me that he eventually accepted it.With Martyn it's a different ball game and if you and people can't see that then there's no point in me trying to explain.
HabibIf you're aound mate i hope that when you did eventually accept my apology you knew it was genuine.Everytime the night of my meltdown gets thrown back at me by someone on waddya i get these pangs of guilt.I know we disagreed about what was said but i really can;t be 100% sure and you've never told me.Sorry to bring it up again but as i said to you after the incident with Martyn i do now know exactly why you were so angry and i really hope you have forgiven and forgotten.Because tbh i don't think i can forgive Martyn now.He's just a non person as far as i'm concerned.
PaulI don't have to be black to understand the comment - or how it hurt you. don't make the mistake of thinking that your colour makes you more likely to be distressed by racist comments - that is not true. The problem with this - and other arguments is - that unless everyone has read all comments, both here and on waddya, and in the order in which they were posted they need to do a Bitey and trawl the archives, discussion becomes confused as people believe what is in fact hearsay. Some people on waddya do not read UT - I don't read all waddya comments. The ongoing feuds are like Chinese whispers - the whole 'He said, she said' thing gets more and more distorted as more people join in and take sides.Imagine I am beside you , taking your arm and encouraging you to walk away while standing with you.
Imagine I am beside you , taking your arm and encouraging you to walk away while standing with you. That's a lovely sentiment Leni and well put. I'm overcome all lachrymosal!
Leni and chekhov I,m not sure a White person can truly feel how a racist comment can affect someone Black or Asian in a country which is still 90% White and where White people control everything.But i'm not going to fall out with anyone here over that.And contrary to what Hank said i don't actually make a big deal here about my ethnicity.As far as i'm concerned i'm as British as everyone else here.Anyways heres a tune from Quincy Jones
And another tune for you both from Alice Clarke
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/oct/10/john-cruddas-english-defence-leagueworth a read - and possibly a comment. Hi Chekhov racism angers me - it is so irrational but quite heartlessly cruel. I was once , as a woman, treated to a very dismissive response from a gun carrying Kuwaiti male - until he realised that I was the one with with the agreement with his boss - the ruler of Kuwait. He visibly wilted - but you could tell he hated me.
And a final one from Prince Phillip MitchellNite Leni and Chekhov x(you know i've got a lot of time for you both )
Night Paul x
@Paul: I don't give a shit about the colour of your skin. You seem like a quite reasonable person to me. No doubt your "ethnicity" has caused you some problems with some fuckwits but you are not alone in that dilemma. I was sent to a boarding school the like of which spawned the idiots who now run the scam that masquerades as our government! They are just taking the piss and skin colour isn't in the equation!
It's fucking shite.She died....Come on cocks. Come on. I'm fucking ready for you.Come on.I'm ready to fucking roll.Where are you."anonymous" cock cunt snide fucko, ambassador of the fucking world wide webWhere the fuck are YOU.I'm waiting.Just fucking come on here and let's do it.Come ON.