02 October 2010


When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading.

- Henny Youngman


  1. Exclusive sneak preview pic from tonight.

  2. Morning thauma.

    See ya this afternoon!

  3. Hi guys heading for the Northants thrash - really sorry to say that I won't be able to join yous on this occasion.

    I was really looking forward to all of your excellent company.

    Sadly problems with me car (Mungo's Hotel). I was hoping to borrow me sons but in the event that was not possible.

    If Kraken turns up I hope that he is civilised and that he enjoys your company as much as I did on our meeting.

    Have fun and enjoy the comradeship - there are less civilised folk about than one might hope and it is always a regret to miss the chance to be with some.

    turm sorry to read of your woes our kid. I join with the others in wishing that they are short lived.

  4. Aw, deano. Sorry to hear that you can't get there today.

  5. Damn, Deano!

    MsChin - see ya later on!

  6. Best wishes to all at the meet up. afk for a bit, catch u all monday? p x

  7. I want a pint with the gang. Oh well, Turm, Jenni, Paul and everyone else, we'll meet up one day, inshallah.

  8. Have fun everyone attending....

  9. Gather around, children, and let me tell you my tale of woe, despair and the cruelty of fate...

    A month ago, the display of my desktop computing device turned green and then black, save for the small telltale light blinking red in power save mode. I disengaged the device's supply of energy, jiggled its graphics card module and, when I restored its power, the image returned.

    Then four days ago, the picture disappeared again. All my efforts to bring it back were in vain. I replaced the graphics card device, but to no avail. I therefore concluded that the motherboard, the heart of the machine, had failed. Venturing into the 12th district of Paris, with its quaint, traditional computing machine supply establishments, I purchased a new motherboard and, for good measure, a 1Tb SATA hard disk drive of the Western Digital advanced persuasion.

    Long through the night I laboured by the light of a guttering candle, changing the motherboard, transferring the processor and living memory of the device, juggling IDE and SATA cables and replacing the ATX source of the machine's power.

    Imagine my horror when, at last, in the pale light of dawn I launched the device and the display flashed green and died again! It had been the display all along! I hurried to purchase a replacement and set about the long task of refitting all the device's software parcels, those intangible creations that allow the machine to engage in a semblance of thought. After many hours, my work was mainly complete - but the computational device was moving at a snail's pace, the baleful light of the IDE telltale glowing steadily whenever I attempted the simplest task!

    What must I do, children, what must I do?

    Should I once again wipe clean the memory of the hard disk appliance and recommence my piecing together of the software parcels from the beginning? Or is it rather a hardware dilemma caused by an incorrect configuration, possibly of the hard disk device?

    CPU: AMD Athlon 64x2 3800+
    HDD: WD10EARS 1TB advanced SATA
    MB: ASRock 785G
    OS: Windows XP Pro SP3
    No exclamation marks in the Device Manager
    CPU activity normal for both cores
    Computer running extremely slowly with the activity LED lit for long periods whenever I launch a programme

    Can any of you conversant with mattters computational make some informed suggestion? The will to live is slipping from my grasp...

  10. Enjoy the pissup everyone.And please no repetion of the last meeting.Remember the reputation of the UT is at stake here and Montana expects you all to be on your best behaviour.

  11. If you've already tried giving it a smack and/or randomly blowing it, I'm out of ideas I'm afraid....

    Good luck though!!

  12. Spike, About your computer woes. Could it be that when you re-started it is downloading loads of updates? Or perhaps running a scan of some kind? Look at the task manager and click on the CPU column then click again to see the System Idle Process at the top. The next few names down will jiggle about but you should be able to glean an idea of which process is hogging the disk. Be aware that the name of the exe file (image name) may not bear any relationship to the name you use to launch it, but you might hazard a guess.

    It's up to you of course but anything that looks strange can usually be forced to stop. The worst that will happen is that you will need to reboot.

    Let us know how you get on.


  13. @IanG

    No, I think it may be an alignment problem between XP and the WD advanced HDD technology. I'm waiting for Lifeguard to finish checking the disk and I'll try running the Align utility (I may have used the wrong one the first time, the WD site information isn't very clear).


    Cheers! But you didn't think of unplugging it and plugging it back in? :-)

  14. Spike: you have my deepest sympathy, speaking as someone whose desktop PC turned up its little motherboard last week, never to restart... I hope yours has better luck.

  15. God above! Cannot seem to get my posts to appear on here at all. Will try again - blooming t'internet gremlins. Disappeared post bascially said:

    Sheff, MsChin, Chekov - fly the flag, Thauma and Bitterweed sorry I won't be able to raise a glass with you. My mind is willing but my body is week so will save my strength and hope to make it to another one. Peter if you turn up take it easy!

    Deano- did you get my apols the other day on here re not being able to meet up when up in your neck of the woods? I couldn't get internet access at all - anywhere - so couldn't let you know we were there. In fact couldn't even get mobile access and there was no land line so did feel a tad scary and cut off. Especially when a sea mist blew in and I kept thinking about John Carpenters The Fog! I hope you are feeling ok?

  16. This comment has been removed by the author.

  17. @Spike

    Yeah, it sounds like the new drive is hitting the Windows XP LBA block alignment problem (which comes after the 137GB 48-bit LBA problem). This screws up the speed of any small-scale data transfers to and from the disk.

    If you're running XP SP2 or SP3, which fixes the 48-bit thing, then the WDAlign utility should sort out the block problem. Let us know how it goes.

    One other possibility occurred to me; is the BIOS reporting the correct RAM size?

    (above post was a version of this one, deleted to correct typing errors)

  18. PCC

    Peter if you turn up take it easy!

    I remember speaking to a chap in a pub years ago. I had never seen him before and it was just idle chatter to pass the time.

    We spoke about food and things we liked and disliked and each time he mentioned something he liked, he said: "But I only ever buy the best."

    After a while, this became both incredibly boring and annoying. I imagined him sending out servants to the four corners of, if not the earth, at least the UK.

    They would go to Arbroath for Arbroath Smokies and the Orkney islands for Orkney crab pate, Eccles for Eccles cakes and Devon for cream.

    I never saw him again - mercifully - and it was only years later that I actually realised what he had been talking about.

    It turned out that "The Best" was some marketing gimmick used by Safeways, the now defunct supermarket. He had obviously swallowed, so to speak, the baloney and ballyhoo hook, line and sinker.

    Which reminds me of Peter Bracken and why, if he turns up, the evening will have to be simply brilliant, sublime and incomparable.

    If P-Brax reads, hears, does or agrees with something which someone else has done or said, it has to be the best thing in the world.

    P-Brax could not put his stamp of approval on anything which was not simply the best.

    Conversely, anything which dos not meet with his seal of approval has to be claptrap, shite and irredeemable.

    Peter Bracken is the ultimate arbiter, the ultimate critic and he can make or break everything in the world with a look of approval or disgust.

    Hope you chaps are up to muster on this.

    It's a bit like being given the Royal Warrant.

  19. Hello all stay at homes

    I await a full report on tonight's doings - unlike Paul I hope all have the courage to misbehave in outlandish and original ways .

  20. Just read the F Maude piece - I am encouraged to see the Tories care for us all - am expecting improvement in the lives of the sick, the homless and impoverished to start tomorrow.

    Made me feel all warm and fuzzy to learn that Dave loves me.

  21. James

    If you've already tried giving it a smack and/or randomly blowing it, I'm out of ideas I'm afraid.

    Is this a form of Brazilian foreplay by any chance? :-)

  22. James and Paul

    Yes, I take it that "blowing" here does actually mean, er, blowing.


    Aww, of course Dave loves you, you silly little thing.

    IDS also seems to have tamed the Treasury, so this means that there will be some kind of unified benefits scheme pushed through.

    It is only at the early stages, but news on the street is that it consists of a letter to be sent to all claimants, existing or new.

    As part of the austerity drive, it has been reduced to a single line:

    Fuck off and beg.

  23. Evening people

    This is sheff secretly posting from Bitters place whilst he's out buying more swally for the evenings entertainment.

    Respectable turnout - PBrax, Monkeyfish, MsC, Chekhov, Thauma, Bitters and me.

    Will post up some pics if I can work out how to do it on Bitters system.

    No fall outs yet but perhaps we're just not pissed enough - good music though.

  24. Atomboy

    Nice one and if begging don't work its-

    Fuck off and die

    Hi Leni/Sheff

  25. Thanks Sheff.

    Will catch up on the gory details later or tomorrow. Off to watch some telly.

    Have fun and...

    ...in the voice of Father Jack Hackett...


  26. Sheffpixie -- it was also the one-month celebration of the reformed Peter Bracken since his implosion at the end of august :)

    I hope people will crash out on the floor rather than attempt to drive ! XXX

  27. Don't worry Dave MsChin don't drink !

  28. Have a great night everyone, I am joining you in spirit if not in person.

  29. Can't post much - Watching Scarlets v Osprey's, and after 35 mins they're almost dead on they're feet ! Blistering, quick brutal rugby !

  30. Just to help the UTers get down and dirty here's a track from Fred Wesley and the JBs Nice!

  31. Tascia - nice touch, having the ref & touch judges' shirts sponsored by Specsavers...

  32. Shaz how do you think we felt when the Boro got a sat nav system for a sponsor?

    We did get relagated though so it didn't reflect that well on Garmin.

  33. tascia said... Don't worry Dave MsChin don't drink !

    Good ! It's the others Im thinking of though :)
    My own early-morning returns from the pub are on completely empty roads, so I do worry a little about the other Younger People !

  34. Paul/Atomboy


    I did actually mean it in a regular, innocent kind of way.

    It certainly could be a local 'custom' however, although, once again, I'm probably not the best person to ask!!

    Hope everyone at the bash is having a good time, am too looking forward to some photos!!

  35. Jen - ah, the tragedy that is football... having said that, Grimsby won today, so modified rapture... this could be the first step on the long journey back to league football...

  36. Jenni -- the ones who really get me are those in the Vodafone strip :

    Private Eye on that bunch of MegaMammonCorp Tax-Dodgers !

  37. Well we have had Virgin in the past dave so I am saying nothing. ;)

    We managed to throw a two goal lead away for a 2-2 draw against Pompey Shaz, but considering how the season is going it is a decent result for us. :(

  38. My son is mournng Gillingham's 7-4 defeat today by Accrington Stanley - there's always someone worse off!

  39. Shaz The Spec's thing is great ! how Ironic when we have the '4th Ref' in Rugby, but can't get it into foosball...

    Munster head the table, Cardiff 2nd. Useless wankers Leinster, couldn't stop em getting the bonus point. ... Was probably a good home derby though.

  40. that wasn't me...bitters has stolen my avatar..... 'fraid we're pissed and have just emerged from a long discussion about the Balkans so am now slightly mad too.

  41. Not Accrington Stanley said in a scouse accent.... reminiscent of an advert !

  42. Shaz
    That's one hell of a result for the "Who are dey?" "exakhley!" boys.

    Liverpool play Blackpool tomorrow. My brother in law is a Man U fan from Blackpool. I shudder to think of the derision.

  43. You lot stop fuckin about injoyin urselves. Yur Meant to be avin a party !

    I want to hear some choons from u lot !

  44. "a long discussion about the Balkans"
    I wonder if they're all dressed as Victorians.

  45. Evening all. Speaking as the only sober person here tonight, Peter B & I are just reading upthread and thought we'd say that it's simply brilliant, sublime and incomparable here in rainy Northampton.

    Fuck off and be envious then.

  46. Sheff/ Bitters 22.12 -- remember the "Balkans" meaning "Kosovo", is still for most people one of Tony Blair's 'Good Wars'.

    I'd have enjoyed being there for the debate .

  47. Haha habib, that did kind of take me aback too.

    Probably just because I hang about with thickos like myself but the Balkans very rarely come up on a night out. ;)

  48. Ha Ha, For one moment I thought - Thauma's got hold of ur Avatar - Sheff.

  49. Sheff- maybe Peter could do a piece for CiF on Humanitarian Interventions ?

  50. "Peter B & I are just reading upthread"
    As pissed as you get, Sheff mate, just don't honestly don't.

  51. Montana et al (including our friends in Northants)

    Yesterday when I logged on briefly I noticed we had a visitor from Aurba.

    And the question is (without google) for twenty points............where the fuck is Aurba?

    Glad you guys in Northants are having joy.

  52. Jenni - you're having a net-night-out with some different thickos, that's all ?

  53. Aruba -- Netherlands Antilles ?

    centre for the Drugs Trade an Offshore Finance ?

  54. If Brax says he knows 'cos he owns Aurba ....he is.......not telling the truth.

    And for a further twenty points which Euro country is Aurba associated with?

  55. frog2 - retired money-launderer...

  56. Shit - your fast frog2 - You is correct and I didn't have a clue till I googled it.

    UT really does attract an audience from all over the world.

  57. Aruba should be kept in the Netherlands in case they close those 'maybe to come' suspicious Coffee shops

  58. dave

    I was visiting my sister today and I told her that if I hadn't had my exam coming up that I would have gone to meet some internet friends in Northampton this weekend and she was absolutely horrified by the idea.

    Despite the fact that last year I visited an internet friend in Portsmouth for a few days and then travelled round the country with another one (from America) for a week without getting axe murdered she thinks it is dangerous and weird.

    She is a lovely woman but very typical of my (small) circle of family and friends, you know the people you know (probably went to school with them) and sometimes they will introduce you to people they know and that is all.

    I may not get out much but at least I don't live in a mental village.

  59. I think Aruba would make a nice surname for me. But I'm just silly.

  60. I didn't mean village did I? Villages are nice.

    I meant ghetto.

    Thats what two drinks will do to you after a week off the booze.

  61. jen

    You're definitely coming to the next get together in Sheffield in the new year. MsChin & I are looking forward to meeting you.

    And plans are afoot for a UT trip to France next year (Sept) complete with minibus & yurt.

  62. My name is Aruba, Habib Aruba.

  63. Aruba the lowdown according to Wiki

    Actually on a technicality I may have to rule you incorrect Frog2

    Wiki says:"Aruba, which has no administrative subdivisions, is one of the three countries that form the Kingdom of the Netherlands, together with the Netherlands and the Netherlands Antilles


    The island of Aruba was part of the Netherlands Antilles until 1986, when it was granted status aparte, becoming yet another part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands as a separate country within the kingdom."

    Now then what was that about specsavers....

  64. You're right Jen

    As long as you are sure who you are talking to people you can trust. I would hopefully like to think we are all good people on here !!!

    Hope to meet u at Bitters do in Leam in Nov. I think there may be a good turn-owt for that one !

  65. Sheff

    I will turn up on day, I promise, although I am not sure if my working class credentials will survive any trip that includes a yurt!

    The minibus will probably be ok. ;)

  66. Jenni -- there are plenty of 'lovely women' , and people who just ain't got a clue .

    My own sister is one of the warmest-hearted people imaginable, now Agency-caring for Alzheimers and obviously brilliant at it, but she may well read the Mail, and really loves the fact that one daughter has just re-married ( £30,000 ?) and said daughter is now honeymooning with a safari in Africa and a stay on some offshore touristy Island .

    Some people, well most people, just can't join up the dots !

  67. Ahh France = They all talk foreign over there - and the food is merde.

  68. Time to fess up - I've been posting as sheff but I did say I was the sober one here ..

    Match of the Day and the blokes have taken over. So the women have migrated to bitters' den to annoy you lot. I'm think I'm going to sneak down to the kitchen in minute and hide the beer ;)

  69. Annoy away. As long as there is footy on TV there ain't going to be anything remotely resembling a Revolution, so better to lie back and ...

  70. "I think Aruba would make a nice surname for me"

    habib - does have a nice ring to as you gargle the word around the mouth.

    It has a nice universality about it as in:

    any hobbies - yea I'm quite into Aurba.

    anything with the chips sir? - yes I'd like a medium rare Aurba.

    is your partner a goer? - you bet, pure aurba or wow just like aurba off a shovel...

  71. tascia

    I have an idea that my sis thinks that 'meeting friends off the internet' is some kind of euphemism for away day sex.


    I don't think my sister reads any paper at all and I have never seen her watch the news but she is very savvy about real life, she is sometimes a bit 'aspirational' for her daughter but all in all her working class credentials are solid, it might be to do with her working with some very damaged people.

  72. Spelling Aruba wrong four times out five says it all really!

    Chin I guessed it was you.

  73. Right - thaumaturge here, having also appropriated Sheff's ID.

    The blokes are fucking disgusting. They are watching Match of the Day or similar fucking shite. Losers.

    Couldn't even get them to put on the rugby highlights.

    So, obviously, there are a load of overpaid prima donnas clutching their ankles and weeping in the other room.

  74. Psst . On friday I noticed that One Lady was looking for a flame-thing, perhaps the other too, and Martyn has been rather desperately tickling for the same for days .

    Most frustrating if the fish don't bite ?

  75. Thauma it might be worth watching it to see Fergusons face when they fail to win again (they did draw didn't they?).

  76. Deano - you're imagination is once again running wild.

    Luv it !

  77. "..away day sex..." - Jen I am shocked.

    Never occurred to me to ask Hank what he did after he removed his trousers in Leamington or in Sheffield.

    As the saying goes...what happens in X stays in X. I mean just think we might one day have a UT get together in Clekhuddersfax.

    And to the best of my knowledge nobody who went to said place ever returned with the same underwear they went with..

  78. Jen - who is this Ferguson of whom you speak?

    Dave - it is even so. Gratifying.

    - t

  79. Thaum Manchester United !!! speww !!

  80. Tascia - that's some sort of second-rate football team, no?

  81. Thaum - u got a good sound system over there for tracks offa u-tube ?

  82. Nahhh ... unfortunately not! Big speakers are downstairs with the bloody footie.

  83. Footies over in 15 mins !! on the beeb.

  84. Do you know I have noticed that on here people (unless they are being 'ironic') only post the kind of music that casts them in a good light.

    Are any of you willing to admit your guilty pleasures?

  85. jenni 22.57 - I rather think that my sister would suspect any net-friendship too, being totally outside her experience . As for working-class credentials, I haven't got any myself !

    That one is a trap, particularly so in the UK.

    Nobody should be judged on how privileged their parents were, and themselves by that continuity .

    Just judge them by who they are, and what they do .

  86. I know dave I was trying to be funny (it never works) working class credentials are a joke.

  87. That's what my kestral says too....

  88. Jenni - me being slow ! I have seen someone else being dead serious here on WCC tho .

  89. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  90. We have a visitor from Belgium.Wave everybody!

  91. dave, Like that

    Just judge them by who they are, and what they do .

    Jen We will probably be a bunch of middle aged pricks to you - or old aged pricks - but don't forget..... we we're young once, and still feel like we're 21 !!

  92. And whilst everyone's waving here's a current favourite tune of mine from Will Downing Hope everyone's having a good time down at BW's.

  93. Jenni-- you have to be pretty effete to have central heating, I agree . I'm not 100% convinced about my indoor loo either .

    I'm thinking of doing away with it , and do wonder what change that would make to my rates .

    With serious composting humanure is useful in the veg patch rather than being 'disappeared' .

  94. tascia

    I am going to be 40 next year (which still fucking amazes me, 40? are you sure?) and I am not one to start casting the middle aged label about (unless I feel like it).

    I simultaneously feel both too old for and too young for everything.

  95. tascia -- definitely an 'old-aged' one here , but the brain is still working.

    I think . . . for now !

  96. Jen

    Age is immaterial IMO.Ihave a neighbour in her 70,s who insists old age starts at 80.Gets really shirty with anyone who says she's old.And i read recently that apparently 54 is the ideal age to be.Anyways back to the music.

  97. Dave

    i read an account of a visit to Korea during the 19 century. They used human ezcrement as manure - the writer said you could smell it from the sea as you approached.

    The offering from the royal palace was treated with formal respect but no pre treatment.

  98. I simultaneously feel both too old for and too young for everything.

    Much love to you Jenn.

  99. Leni

    That's like walking into work for me ! (We have a drain problem that nobody seems to be able to fix !!)/

  100. Paul

    54 is ideal for what ? Bit depressing that a single 12 month period is the ideal to be either hoped for or regreted - depending which side of it you happen to be .

  101. Leni -- " night soil" was not just Korea . Or China .

    Before the evil invention of the flush loo, where it hygienically 'disappeared' downriver or out to sea, whatever happened to it ?

  102. Leni

    My favourite area of study is microbiology, it is only a small part of the course I am doing but if I was younger it would be my ultimate aim to become a microbiologist.

    I don't like the smell any more than anyone else but in general we have no idea how microbes have made our lives bearable (not to mention longer).

  103. Jenni

    There are many things you can be too young for but very few for which you are too old.

  104. It's too late for some things, but there are plenty of others to stimulate amuse and fascinate...

  105. Dave

    i think it was left to rot - or buried. Not something I have really thought about. I will do so.

    Castles had outside loos - you sort of sat on the wall and let everything fall into space.

  106. I wish that were true Leni, no one will take me on as an acrobat. ;)

  107. Leni


    54 is ideal for what ? Bit depressing that a single 12 month period is the ideal to be either hoped for or regreted - depending which side of it you happen to be .

    It's only depressing if you take seriously everything you read..As i said in my post i think age is actually immaterial.You're as old/young as you feel.And with the population rapidly ageing over the next 20 years 80 will probably soon become the new 40.

  108. Jenni -- re microbiology , have you checked out the Deepwater Horizon microbiological fallout story at georgewashington2 blog ?

  109. This comment has been removed by the author.

  110. Jenni

    Do you write failed acrobat on your cv?

    also interesting things about Dead Sea and micro organisms. A plan to top it up with water from the Red Sea is causing consternation. Different constituents in the water - also fears that the lower salinity in the Dead water will cause it to float on top rather than mixing - creating a changed water column.

    Isn't the world full of interesting things ?

  111. Deano

    is it the books or the lady librarians?

  112. Deano -- at 63 last week, SNAP, and all the rest !

    It's great fun to be younger in spirit than many who are 20 or 40 years 'technically' younger , despite the creaky knees and a few other little details .

  113. Deano, I have no doubt that sexual feelings persist throughout a lot of peoples lives, that isn't a problem to most people.

    dave, when I am not (pointlessly studying) I am trying to keep up with the whole Deepwater mess.

    I don't know a lot about the situation (nobody does) but from what I have read it will keep microbiologists in jobs for years to come, shame it will decimate the area. :(

  114. Sewage farms do sell treated sewage for fertiliser use.

    I had a mate who was a sewage engineer his favourite saying was......"it might be shit to you but it's bread and butter to me...".

    I gather that if you are going in for home composting you do need to be careful and follow a prescribed procedure so as to render some nasty pathogens harmless. Pissing on the garden compost heap is good... shitting in it not good.

  115. Lady librarians, plus patchouli ... ?

  116. Jenni - gw2 recommended ; He has ace links .

  117. Hehe Leni

    I might put failed acrobatic microbiologist on a t shirt.

    But you are absolutely right, the world is full of interesting phenomenon and the fact that the outcomes may be bad is no reason not to be fascinated by it.

  118. Jenni

    That should have read lower sainity in the Red Sea.


    Ben thinkg about Banks. Suppose we hadn't bailed them out - let them fail like other businesses.

    The people who held mortgages from them would have been lsted as debtors - with no means of enforcing payment immediately.

    As the banks had sold on many of the mortgages anyway - what would have happened ? Certainly the true nature of the incompetence and mishandling of their businesses would have been exposed but would it really have matered if the banks failed ?

    The bailout could have covered deposits leaving money in circulation and people with capital to transfer to smaller, safer institutions. Or is that too simple?

  119. "..is it the books or the lady librarians? .."

    It's the juxtaposition Leni.

    Might be a bit of alliteration in there too - learned lady librarians, sounds so smashingly smart smooth and seductive. What sensible chap wouldn't want one or two. One for the fiction and one for the non.

  120. the outcomes may be bad is no reason not to be fascinated by it.

    jenni -- that sums up the interest we all have here on wherever the world is going .

    NN now, I'm going to buy some onions today and make a LOT of chutney .

    XX !

  121. Leni

    If the banks had been allowed to fail the knock on effects could have been potentially devastating .For it would have led to panic and in such an atmosphere the herd instinct usually takes over and consequently people often stop thinking rationally.

  122. Deano

    i only asked cos I am a qualified children's librarian.

    This means I not only understand the Dewey Decimal system but have an interests in children and literature.

    Love the alliteration.

  123. Leni - I knew I liked you and that you were a class act.


    Good night friends. As ever I enjoyed your company.

  124. I was reading the clocking in thread about smoking the other day and it made me realise that we are completely doomed as a society.

    I have never seen anything like it, it was like being in a nursery.

    The popular choice was, they are getting something I'm not getting and so they must be made to suffer both by denying them what they want and by making them admit that they are wrong.

  125. Leni -- 2am here ! Yes indeed, what might have been, AND what still could be the right solution, but much has already disappeared down the drain .

    I think it would have been POSSIBLE, but hairy.

    There was a moment when they knew the game was up, and the bankers were running shit-scared , but ABSOLUTELY NOBODY had the intellectual grasp on it to sort the situation .

    It was so vast and so complex .

    The other question is whether those in power and influence EVER looked for the fair and decent solution which WE would have desired , and would have benefited 98% of people .

    I think NOT.

    Finally, NNNNNN !

  126. And Montana I saw your post, but instead of asking why you should have to do without, when your colleagues go for a smoke, you should be asking why we all don't have the choice to take a few minutes off.

    Divide and conquer FTW.

  127. Reading Mam's posts makes me doubt we are all descended from a common ancestor.

  128. Leni

    Have you ever read the Dr Gerry Mander stuff?

    It is so very poor.

  129. Jenni Will look at it now. I usually avoid it as it is so trashy.

  130. Sorry Leni I did'nt mean you should read it.

    Don't read it, it's shit.

    I just wondered if I was the only one who had noticed it.

  131. Jenni

    I looked - it is trash.

  132. Sorry, I was just upset about Montana saying that all smokers are scum (my interpretation) and that she shouldn't have to take up their slack.

  133. Ha - they have closed the Hattersley thread after an hour and a half !

  134. This comment has been removed by the author.

  135. I came home last night, found my best friend in bed with my wife. I said

    "Larry - I have to. But you ???"