17 June 2010


Doubts are more cruel that the worst of truths.


  1. I'm afraid that I forgot to jot down the name of the artist and title of the painting for today's image and frankly, I can't be bothered going through my history to find it again. Please forgive me. I think the title is "The Nightmare" and it seems like the artist was late 18th Century with an Italian surname. Oh well.

    And Chekhov, in answer to your question yesterday -- ESPN stands for Entertainment Sports Network. It's a the cable sports channel that is carrying the World Cup.

  2. 70 years ago today, a French two star general and junior minister of the French Third Republic's last cabinet walked into Broadcasting House and made the following speech:

    "The leaders that have been at the head of the French armies for many years have set up a government. This government considers that our armies are defeated, and has contacted the enemy in order to end the combat. It is true that we have been - and are still being - overtaken by the enemy's mechanical power, both land-based and in the air.

    Even more than their sheer numbers, it is their tanks, their aeroplanes and the tactics of the Germans that have made us retreat. It is the tanks, the aeroplanes, the tactics of the Germans that have surprised our leaders to the point of leading them to where they are today.

    But has the final word been spoken? Must hope disappear? Is defeat final? No! Believe me, I speak to you with full knowledge of the facts, and tell you that nothing is lost for France. The same means that have defeated us may one day bring us victory. Because France is not alone! She is not alone! She is not alone!

    She has a vast Empire behind her. She can join forces with the British Empire, which controls the sea and continues to fight. Like England, France too has unlimited access to the immense industry of the United States.

    This war is not limited to the sad confines of our country. This war will not be decided by the battle taking place in France. This war is a world war. None of the mistakes, none of the delays, none of the suffering shall deny that in this world we can find all the means necessary to crush our enemies one day. Though we may be struck down by mechanical power today, we shall win by a superior mechanical power in the future. Therein lies the world's destiny.

    I, General De Gaulle, now in London, call upon the French officers and soldiers who are or who may find themselves on British soil, with or without their weapons; I call upon the engineers and the skilled workers in the armaments industry, who are or who may find themselves on British soil, to contact me.

    Whatever happens, the flame of French resistance must not and shall not die.

    Tomorrow,as today, I shall speak on the radio from London."

    This broadcast was transmitted as the petainistes were preparing to sue for a humiliating surrender to Nazi Germany.

    Made the day before Churchill's "Finest hour" speech, l'appel de 17 juin was equally significant as it became the cornerstone of the 'myth of the French resistance', recognised de Gaulle as the head of the Free French Government and cemented de Gaulle's haughty regard of himself as France's 'man of destiny'.

  3. Hey, is that a picture of old bitey up there ?

  4. Montana the current layout is brilliant, kudos also to Jay for starting the ball rolling!

    I can read the posts without raising the zoom level - its so clear!

    Duke - interesting quote and interesting how war leaders tend to make very bad peacetime ones.

    It occurs that part of that speech could be applicable to our own situation with regard to left politics its also a warning that those who lead the revolution may not be the best people to lead a post revolution society.

    BW LOL!

    On a personal note I am not posting much busy flat hunting! Some interesting stuff on the market - decisions need to be made and they need to be mine not daughter's. Why do adult children always attempt to take on a parental role? I know its because she loves me but...!

  5. 13thDukeofWybourne
    Thanks for that post, excellent.

  6. annetan,

    Duke - interesting quote and interesting how war leaders tend to make very bad peacetime ones.

    Yeah, the legacy of de Gaulle is always one which gets the Historians going. One one hand there are those who say he was a reactionary traditionalist who implemented strong man Government with his founding of the Fifth Republic.

    Others will tell you that he saved France in 1945 from descending into Civil War, he saved France again in 1958 from descending into Civil War during the Algerian crisis and set France on its way to les trente glorieuses through his economic policy of dirigisme.

    A little known fact is that when he died in 1970, he was virtually penniless. He refused a state funeral and insisted no heads of state attend his funeral at his family home in Colombey-Les-Deux Églises. His simple gravestone simply says 'Charles de Gaulle 1890-1970'.

    He also refused his Presidential pension and a General's pension, only taking a Colonel's pension, his rank of command at the outbreak of WWII. His family subsequently had to sell the family home as he left no inheritance.

    How many world leaders could we say would end their days like this?

    A fascinating and divisive character.

  7. Morning all.

    Montana, that painting is The Nightmare by Henry Fuseli, from about 1800. He was English, I believe.

  8. Morning all,


    Thanks for the picture. It is a very familiar painting to me as my Dad had loads of art books with separate colour plates and this was on the front of one. It fascinated and repelled me when I was a kid - especially the eyeless horse.

    I think it's by Fuseli.

  9. Should clarify, de Gaulle's appeal was recorded 17th June 1940 and broadcast the next day

  10. Well, I had a different remembrance of Füssli's Nightmare, but a quick look at wikipedia confirmed the painter and work. Füssli was born in Switzerland, by the way, but emigrated to England, where he died.

    Gotten back yesterday from a business trip, still a bit droopy (not that my recently become ex-girlfriend would say there are moments when I am not), so I'm trying to catch up a little bit, if I don't fall asleep in my office here.

    BTW, love the new design, it's so full of harmony and tranquility ... just what I need at the moment.

  11. Duke:

    Can I echo Annetan and say thanks for the quote. Indeed fascinating. The matter of de Gaulle's end, the refusal of pomp and circumstance is something unknown to me, you've pricked my interest there. Thank you most kindly sir ;)


    "Why do adult children always attempt to take on a parental role? I know its because she loves me but...!"

    Speaking as an adult daughter of a Mother who needs to move, she is similarly frustrated by mine and my sisters' interference in her affairs, maybe it's the perception of the shift of power in the roles? I know I've had to really back off about her life as she gets very upset when she feels she's being treated like a child. It's a funny one.

  12. 'ello SpeedKermit - how are you?

  13. Great thanks LaRit. Where's the buffet in this place? ;)

  14. Morning all


    I'd no idea that De Gaulle died in such straightened circumstances. Fascinating.


    Welcome back. The new format is restful, but trust me, it can still get lively round here from time to time!


    Hello & welcome.

    Buffet? The sun ain't over the yard arm yet ..

  15. I see Maradona is continuing his one man crusade to keep this tournament interesting. Yesterday he lambasted Platini as being right up himself and that Pele should go back to the museum. Bless him.

    I clipped this comment from 'wooablackbetty' on the football columns last year when Argentina qualified. It's an absolute classic:

    "We're all laughing now at crazy Diego and his madcap antics, but just you wait and see what hapens:

    In the group stages, amid the infighting they squeeze through into second of a group the tabloids call "The Piece Of Piss".

    Second round they stumble through a 1-0 win over France, after which Domenech announces that his wife is pregnant, so things ain't all that bad. For some reason the French FA still refuse to sack him.

    Quarters they come up against England who, after an insipid start to the tournement start to really play. Unfortunately Crouch's third minute goal is cancelled out in the 92nd minute by a Ferdinand backpass that goes through James' legs to the sound of a Swannee whistle. Agentina win on penalties.

    Semis they put on a good defensive performance against Portugal. Argentina win 1-0 in a game that is remembered for the game in which it is catagorically accepted that Ronaldo 'never performs in the big games'.

    In the final, against a suspension hampered Spain, the Argentinian players decide to ignore Diego's commands and just goes out there to play. Argentina win 3-2 in "The Greatest World Cup Final Ever" TM to much applause and backpeddling from sports journos world wide.

    During the trophy presentation Diego pushes Messi et al out of the way and accepts it himself. He proceeds to ejaculate on it for forty-five minutes, spurting gallons and gallons of 'rage semen' before his head explodes.

    I guarantee it will happen. Put a monkey on it."

  16. Hi speedkermit, buffet is here .

    MsChin: Anger and violence against a serene background? Sounds like "Ran" to me, so it's alright with me :-)

  17. Ooh, lime jelly with butterscotch Angel Delight and a decorative grape. Luvverly

  18. @Duke

    Brilliant stuff, and all too plausible. Did you see this magnificent piece on World Cup punditry from The Hootsmon?

  19. Elementary/Speedy

    ahhhh...the smorgasboard straight out of the 70's!

    I think Montana should provide coffee and pastries to match the soothing new layout!!


    Love Maradonna.... he was guest of honour at Sonar in Barecelona a few years back (Maradonna the whole theme) he came on stage as the nigh time Sonar was ah-hem 'kicking off' and kicked a few footballs into the crowd.... everyone went wild!!

  20. Buffet? I've never got past the bar.

  21. Thauma;

    Sorry, have to do a "LOL" to that one.


    Glad you're well.

  22. Just come across another useful list to go with the free online films one from the other day; this time it's free online audiobooks.

  23. PeterJ:

    That's a great site. Have bookmarked, many thanks ;)

  24. Sweet Holy Moses! How the hell do I unsubscribe from comments? You're all spamming my Hotmail account!!

  25. Thanks PeterJ that is a brilliant site, I love my audiobooks and free is always my favourite price.

  26. speedy - somewhere in 'preferences' there's an option for 'notifications', just turn that off...

    ah, fuseli - bit of a weird one - have printed off one of his called "the debutante" for book purposes, thinking it just showed dress of the times, but it's a bit unsettling...

    hang on - here

    anyway - am not taking on a parental role re my two, but am currently ringing every hotel restaurant in the peak district trying to find out where they are having their anniversary meal this sunday, so i can treat them as a surprise, but am getting nowhere...have a horrible feeling dad has forgotten to make reservation, which as sunday is also father's day, could mean I end up standing them a take-away curry... honestly...

  27. Hello hello,

    we appear to have plod sniffing around the UT. PC Speed Kermit to be precise.

    Can everyone start clearing away the drug paraphernalia ASAP? I've flushed the ketamine down the toilet.


    thanks for that article, it's very good. I get BBC here and the comparison between Dutch (NOS) and the BBC analysis is night and day.

    For example, NOS have a chap called Piet de Visser (a manager of numerous Dutch clubs) as a pundit for the lesser games.

    He's enthusiastic, knowledgeable, witty, explains the tactics of the game he's watching brilliantly and you leave the game with an enhanced knowledge of what's happened.

    Compare that with the arrogant golfing buddy fuckwits sitting on the BBC sofa who clearly can't be arsed when it's not England or a 'big team'. Platitude after platitude after platitude of the bleeding obvious.

    I watch the Dutch commentary.

  28. @Duke

    I've been watching some games online, as you can have the BBC pictures with the Radio 5 commentary. Admittedly, you have to put up with clots of Alan Green and the uncouth Savage from time to time, but the punditry from Pleat, Taylor and - amazingly enough - Waddle is informative and perceptive.

  29. Duke
    Many thanks for that,especially the info on his funeral etc.
    A piece on the Conseil National de la Resistance 1942? programme and the founding of the frog Welfare system would be welcome some time too.(I have too many projects already ...)

  30. your grace - bet365 is so bad as english audio that i am just listening to the french commentary, which is poles apart from BBC/ITV - there was so much sighing during the first algeria match they drowned out the vuvuzelas. then they gave up talking about the football and moved onto the breakup of the former yugoslavia, tennis, and grass seed.

    they seem to get more involved, but in general, rather than home-country bias (although the mood during the first french game was definitely depressed) - lots of 'oh what a shame!', and 'that was brilliant, such a pity it went wide'.

    they were nearly in tears when the SA goalie got sent off yesterday...

    may have to go to the local irish pub for england on friday, however, they have the irish sport channel.

    apparently seedorf on bbc is doing well on the punditry sofa.

  31. Most importantly, De Gaulle set the position for France to retain it's soveregnty. France was in NATO, yes, but with it's own command structure, an independant nuclear deterrant and no foreign troops occupying her soil. This is the legacy of Gaullism.

    Contrast to us, our post war history has largely consisted of licking America's backsides, with a few exceptions.

    There are American military bases on our soil, FFS. Our nuclear deterrant is supplied by the Americans. Our political class is bankrupt and self serving.

  32. Philippa/Peter,

    If you have sound, this is a brilliant clip of Jack van Gelder (bit of an institution here) commentating on Bergkamp's great goal against Argentina in 1998.

    Peter, I always thought Waddle was a decent pundit as is Stan Collymore strangely enough.

    And although I'm too young, the Mexico 70 ITV panel of Crerand, Clough, Dougan, McNab, Allison and Jack Charlton was supposed to be legendary.

    I've seen some clips and boy did they not pull any punches. That's what you want.

    Philippa, what's the mood in France today about the Mexico game?

  33. @Da Duke

    A very interesting character, de Gaulle. To put it in simplistic terms, he had sometimes progressive foreign policies, but was very authoritarian right-wing at home.

    This Gaullist heritage has continued up until today, with Chirac's right-wing domestic policies, but, for instance, support for the Palestinians and opposition to the Iraq War, with de Villepin's speech to the United Nations applauded by all my mates in the PC and me.

    Now we have Sarkozy, I'm almost nostalgic for the often lovable old criminal Chirac. He certainly wouldn't have minced his words over the peace flotilla massacre.

    Re de Gaulle's wartime role, he initially told the French in Occupied France not to resist, but to wait to be liberated. At first, the PC (under orders from the Komintern) did not resist as a party, but when Hitler attacked the Soviet Union, full-scale resistance began and de Gaulle, realising that would make the PC the most powerful party in France, ordered the launch of Gaullist resistance.

  34. haven't ventured out yet, but the coverage after the first game was reflective of a mood of general funk. will have a look and then report back.

    the algerian contingent are much more chipper, oddly. 'ou est egypte?' being a popular chant.

  35. If I can drag you guys away from the footy there is a a very moving piece on assylum seekers over on Cif.

    Comments I have read so far are sympathetic - bet that wont last

  36. @Phil

    Bloody hell, I think BBC/ITV commentaries are a breath of fresh air compared to the French ones.

    All those years of listening to Front National sympathiser Thierry Roland and his sidekick Jean-Michel Larqué! All that jingoism and casual racism!

    I loathe Alan Green, but I'd take him over Roland any time (well, I'd actually switch off the sound, but...).

  37. @Phil

    Well, as a straw poll, my French mates who are seriously into football don't want to see Domenech win anything. They've spent the last few years praying that France would lose each game in the hope of seeing him go.

    The consensus is that Domenech must have compromising photos of all the Federation officials engaged in illegal rumpy-pumpy to have survived this long. ;-)

  38. spike - heheheh - what channel is Roland on? i always miss the names...

    funniest thing thus far is the TF2/3 coverage, with the chap who does the FA cup + emmanuel petit - am fairly sure FA chap uses 'vous' while petit is tutoyering away quite happily. power dynamic nicely established there...

  39. @Phil

    Originally Antenne 2, then TF1 for what seemed like centuries and now - mercifully occasionally - M6.

  40. @Spike, @Philippa

    I remember one World Cup game where France, playing pathetically, were desperate for a goal, and Domenech took off an attacker and replaced him with Jean-Alain Boumsong. Now that's negative enough, but as one pundit put it, it's hard to imagine any problem on a football pitch that would be solved by throwinng Boumsong at it.

    Perhaps Domenech had been reading the wrong horoscopes again.

  41. ah, that would explain why i haven't noticed any casual racism yet...except from the bet365 gimps. the coverage of algeria slovenia did seem rather algeria-leaning (hence the dighing), which seemed a bit more inclusive...

  42. He's responsible for such "gems" as

    Il est inconcevable que la Coupe du Monde ait lieu en Afrique du Nord. Nos ami maghrebins - que nous saluons au passage - seraient incapables de l'organiser correctement.

    He also used to enjoy spreading the juicier gossip about players' private lives, and ending:

    ... mais tout cela ne nous regarde pas. (... but all that's none of our business.)

  43. Just what one needs for a revolution, thauma.

  44. Interesting stuff about de Gaulle. We could speculate about the outcome of ww2 had there been no radio - the impact of communication technology then and now and its use/misuse and influence in geopolitics is crucial.

    Are we sure the picture is Fuselli - not Goya ?

  45. @PeterJ

    Although no worse than Amy Jacket bringing on Zizou's mate Dugarry at the end of the 98 World Cup final. Dugarry found himself in front of an open goal, kicked wildly and almost gave Brazil a throw-in rather than a goal kick.

  46. @Leni

    Yes, it's Fuseli. Similar in conception to something like Goya's The Sleep of Reason, but somehow creepier.

  47. "que nous saluons au passage "


    mind - we've got Freche down here, and he's actually a politician, so casual racism in a football-related sphere (in fact, all spheres, with Freche) is par for the course...

    have found parental venue for SUnday. unfortunately they aren't answering the bloody phone...

  48. Peter

    You are probably right - the picture is used in Jung's "Memories, dreams ..." - will have to look it up again.

    It is very disturbing - medieval .

  49. thaum

    Not quite sure whether I have missed something or if you are either trying to raise the level of debate or have ATS - Acquired Tourettes Syndrome.

    Food panties!


  50. Ah, the revolting Georges Frêche. Supported by Gayssot, a man I used to like a lot in the old days. We'll be charitable and put his association with Frêche down to his drinking problems.

  51. Leni&Peter Oxford Art Onlines has it as:

    Henry Fuseli: The Nightmare, oil on canvas, 755×65 mm, 1790 (Frankfurt am Main, Goethemuseum);

  52. hurray! they've answered the phone...anniversary lunch taken care of...pffffff.....

  53. AB - direct quotation from the muppet from bruppet on waddya

  54. Thanks Deano - now I'll have to find the Goya.

    How are you? I'm escaping from football.

  55. Found the Goya - quite different picture !

    Monsters are created when Reason sleeps - how true.

  56. morning all.....

    "food panties"
    darling we are talking cocktails pleaze don't interrupt mwah

  57. Interesting - the picture attached in the Fuseli's biography has the painting with the Montana's image reversed (woman laying from right to left rather than left to right as shown above)

    reverse image ??

    I wonder which round way she actually lay in the original??

  58. Deano

    You are right - image is reversed - that's what confused me.

    On dreams - last week , after discussion here about rebuilding the Left and your mention of barley fields - I dreamt I was faced with the impossible task of counting the grains in a huge barley field - failure meant death.

  59. Do you think I could get away with justifiable homicide if I kill the bloke upstairs who has just caused me to close my windows on a lovely day by playing the same Kings of Leon song more than 10 times in a row?

    Anne that was a good article and a suprisingly restrained comments section.

  60. @deano

    They might have used the engraving version - that was often done at the time.

  61. Gandolfo - sorry, I really shouldn't get my knickers in a twist.

  62. reversed2

    I think the nag looks more sinister looking to the right than the left

  63. Ah, ok, Fuseli painted it more than once. Another version has the woman lying the other way. Both versions and one of the engravings are shown in the Wiki article here.

  64. Jenni

    In short yes - particularly if the Kings of Leon were played to the jury.

  65. Peter

    The version with the more hobgoblin like beastie is the more familiar one - more threatening I think.

  66. Cheers Peter - I was just begining to think ..."wait a minute that aint the same nag"!!

  67. @Jenn

    1) Wait until he stops
    2) Insert earplugs
    3) Play the Crazy Frog song on a loop
    4) Stand in hall with a dustbin-lid shield and hatchet and wait for him to break down your door
    5) Bask in tabloid approval as a have-a-go heroine defending herself against an attacker in her own home

  68. Thauma

    you need to chill out.... forget that the country's going arse over tit, there are wars everywhere, criminal politicians are bleeding us dry and life's just going to get worse...

    .....think COCKTAILS and ICECREAM

  69. Jen

    cut the electricity cables....maybe safer than murder... just put your wellies on to be sure though...

  70. Now there is an idea Spike. ;)

  71. That picture is really disturbing, I keep going back to look at it, it's reminding me of something I can't quite put my finger on.

  72. Jenn - you have my sympathy dear lady it would drive me fucking nuts. Living as I do I don't have that problem, and for which every day I give thanks.

    Come the revolution inconsiderate neighbours will be given a choice:

    i) turn it down;

    ii) hold the white hot iron ingot in your hand whilst counting to twenty three and 3/8's in one eighth increments;

    iii) removal of the genitals.

    If it were me I'd save up and get a digital radio with noise excluding earphones. In the dreadful circumsatnces you are in they ought to be available on the NHS (pending the revolution and the solution described above).

    It is a stunningly beautiful day here in E Yorks and you have my sincere sympathy and best wishes.

  73. Cloudy day over here in Southern Germany. Glad to hear the sun is shining *somewhere* for nice people :-)

  74. sun shining ici as well

    your grace - a quick trip out to the bookshop and passed several cafe-based conversations relating to france's chances tonight, mainly involving 'domenech' in close proximity to words I don't know, i suspect because my teacher won't teach me swearwords...

    also much sighing and shrugging.

    so - everybody's feeling very confident

  75. philipa

    your teacher doesn't teach you swear words? Why FFS?
    That's outrageous it's such an important part of language, i think they were some of the first words I learnt in Italian! When I taught english my students always wanted to learn swear words...I always obliged!

  76. Morning all

    @Duke-very interesting post about De Gaulle.The collapse of France in 1940 had an almost 'Carry On' quality to it-as well as being tragic for France.Stories abound of Generals cooped up in chateaus without access to telephones,mistresses
    calling the shots etc.And of course the delusion that the 84 year old Petain would in effect repeat his WW1 feat (Verdun) and become the savior of France.

    You,re absolutely right that De Gaulle was both a difficult and divisive man.But by God without him the French reputation by 1945 would have been well and truly in the karzi.

    @Hi SpeedKermit-good to see you.

  77. my first prof was a bit more scattershot, so i learned lots of things not for polite society - current prof moonlights as a primary school teacher, so there's less of that...

    and, as DB prefers swearing in english, there is certainly a lack in there somewhere. am hoping it won't scupper my chances at the DALF.


  78. and on the de Gaulle thing - the bookshop i just went to (the big sauramps) has got a display in every window relating to dG and particularly the parole 17 Juin.

  79. argentina walking all over s korea - greece must be utter bobbins...

  80. WADDYA looks a bit like an agricultural auction or show, in which men in white coats lead the docile and uninquisitive livestock around by rings through their noses and a bit of rope, parading them before the poker-faced buyers or children with ice-cream smeared across their faces.

    Several of them seem not to have noticed that they have also had posters attached to them with "Thick as pig-shit" painted in bright red letters.

    Apparently, the New "Improved Recipe" Labour leadership web-chats were as awful as could be expected, which has not prevented the increasingly dense JessicaReed from asking how they went.

    It's all a bit like The Guardian's coverage of the global economic meltdown a couple of years ago. When people suggested that maybe CiF was a bit twee and wimpish about the whole thing, they quickly squashed that stupid notion with a sudden and emphatic denial:

    "We gave you a four-page pullout and a pdf file containing some of your comments."

    How far have the mighty fallen since those heady, glory days!

  81. Ha Philipa you are a jinx. ;)

  82. famous last words...

    good game, though. could be a blinding second half

  83. thaumaturge

    Food panties indeed.Am speechless!Surely she didn,t mean parties?Still haven,t got over her advice to those with MH problems.Sad,very sad!!

  84. JayR:

    You've got Jubilation1's knickers in a right old twist with your post.

  85. Paul,
    There’s been some really interesting debate surrounding the Fall of France in 1940 which challenges the notions that a) defeat was inevitable and b) that it was purely France’s fault and c) that the Fall of France was the fulcrum of the 20th Century and its legacy dominated global politics until 1989.

    As far as a) and b) are concerned, there is a tendency to view 1940 as the inevitable result of years of social decay, appeasement and French lack of stomach for the fight . This classic view espoused by William Shirer and posthumously Marc Bloch is the generally accepted view of the Fall of France.

    However, recently works by David Reynolds, Julian Jackson and Ernest May challenge the ‘myth of 1940’ in persuasive fashion. All three make the point that the Allied armies were better equipped with more men on the field and more tanks, only airpower was lacking. It was strategic mistakes (at Ardennes most notably), the burden of Belgian neutrality which forced the Armies to spread themselves thinly and German luck and cunning at key moments which led to the fall. Evidence from German Generals and soldiers diaries are testimony to the ferocious defence the French Army put up.

    The most interesting argument is the thesis that the Fall of France was the ‘fulcrum event of the 20th Century’.

    Reynolds and Jackson argue that the Fall of France drove the British into the arms of the USA through sheer expediency. Anglo-US relations interwar had been extremely frosty. The ‘special relationship’ was sought by Churchill after the Battle of France. Had France not fallen, Britain would undoubtedly have grown closer to France and the continent rather than draw away from the European project as she did post war.

    The Fall of France transformed Hitler from military chancer to military genius. Up until 1940 there had been much criticism in the upper echelons of the Wehrmacht over Hitler’s strategy.

    After ‘the luck’ of 1940, there was no opposition to Hitler and the Wehrmacht as a result would perish on the Russian steppes.

    The US expected France to hold and when she fell, sent the country into sheer panic with policy makers in Washington concluding that should the US fight Germany, the post War USA must take a lead in European affairs as post WWI showed European countries could not be trusted to maintain the balance of power.

    This was the same opinion of the USSR, who had gambled on a long drawn out war between the capitalists and fascists. Stalin prepared to involve himself in European affairs as early as the fall of France as contemporary papers show. Or in other words, the beginnings of the Cold War as a result of the fall of France.

    Mussolini threw his lot in with Hitler as a result of the French capitulation and with the Japanese occupying French Indochina in the aftermath of France’s fall as part of her ‘Pacific sphere of influence’, war with the USA became inevitable and the post war Japanese economic miracle was the future.

    It’s a fascinating topic from the perspective of the fall of France as the 20th Century fulcrum.

  86. @Duke

    Many of the French saw Dunkirk as a betrayal, so "lacking stomach for the fight" was a mutual accusation, as is the norm in Anglo-French relations.

  87. Philippa,

    My Quebecois friend assures me that there are no swearwords in French (despite, or perhaps due to, me spending the latter half of our teens try to get her to teach me some).

  88. Dott, surely you have heard the awful phrase zut alors? Chills me to the bone with its obscenity every time.

  89. dot - really? because my coloc, ce conne, a disparu dans sa putain bordel d'une chambre, le sale pute, etc etc....

    ooh. maybe I have learned something.

  90. "£80m loan to Sheffield Forgemasters axed as part of cuts following Treasury review....

    Well good citizens of Sheffield you know what to do when that bastard tory bum boy Clegg next visits town....

  91. Hi there,

    damn, I really am at war with my mobile phone - it just switches itself off for no discernable reason whatever, three quarters of the incoming calls I miss due to the ring tone being too low, ...

    One of these days, I'll have to read the goddamn manual ...

  92. Philippa

    Je ne comprends pas!

  93. far as i can tell, those are the only ones, you just move them around a lot...

  94. @PhilippaB:

    Attention! N'oublie pas merde, merdeux, va te faire foutre, encule ta mere, emmerdeux et toutes les paroles sexuelles...

  95. Tu ne comprends pas? Putain de merde!

  96. I could fight back: I have a French student working with me at the moment, however she's only just come to the UK, very shy, and her English isn't great, I don't want to scare her....

  97. ah, swifty - je m'en fous! forgot that - caused some squeaking from prof when i read it out from my list of 'stuff heard on't telly i don't understand'...

  98. Garn ... you know you want to!

  99. Montana - this format is great. Very easy to read and soothing too! Hope you not feeling too bad.

    Jen - that is bad but at least it is Kings of Leon - it could be worse. Our neighbours a few years back used to get roaring drunk once or twice a week and then play - on repeat for hours - that song that was the theme to Minder. ''I could be so good to you''. They sang along too. It eventually came to blows between one of them and my stepdad - he was just driven mad by it.

  100. Enculé, literally buggered person, equivalent cunt
    Va te faire enculé, lit. go and get buggered, eq. fuck off
    Putain, lit. whore, eq. shit
    Merde, lit. shit
    Salope, slut
    Connard, eq. twat
    Branleur, wanker
    Blaireau, lit. badger, eq. mug, twat
    Trouduc, trou du cul, trou de balle, arsehole
    Baiser, to fuck
    Je suis baisé, I'm fucked
    Niquer, fuck
    Nique ta mère, fuck your mother

    Je m'en fous, I don't give a damn, mild

    Need any more?

  101. This comment has been removed by the author.

  102. @Deano - ''Well good citizens of Sheffield you know what to do when that bastard tory bum boy Clegg next visits town....''

    Fucking, fucking, fucking utter shits! It was a loan! Dumb ass monetarist fools. I suggest that Cleggy doesn't show his face around his constituency for a while. Traitorous little fuckpig!

  103. Morning/Afternoon all,

    RE swearing in foreign, and

    "far as i can tell, those are the only ones, you just move them around a lot..."

    I've actually become rather proud of the wide variety of profanity available for English speakers since living here.

    Whenever I ask how you say, x, y, z in Portuguese, it's always the same expression.
    There's no real gradation, for example, and no way of affording anybody a more particular level of abuse than the standard, 'son of a bitch'.

    I mean, that's just lazy....

  104. PCC - what a fucking outrage I have to share the planet with these:
    absolute tossers

    and not an Admiral's walking out jacket between them. These people have no imagination, Mungo just pissed himself at their childish and ill informed taste.

    Seen the news about Forgemasters? I'm hoping Clegg will need a double Police escort on his next Sheffield visit.

    Prescott may have been a twat but he would have known that had a stunt like that been pulled on Hull he would have been facing deselection and a house stoning. The arrogance of the public schoolboys....

  105. PCC

    With, 'traitorous little fuckpig', you have proved my above point beautifully.

    Brilliantly put.

    (*Stands and salutes!!)

  106. "Blaireau, lit. badger, eq. mug, twat"

    ah, that would explain something else. when i was, for some reason, explaining that i really like badgers.

  107. It's not just Forgemasters in Yorks.

    Outukumpu: £13m (Project to buy and develop a Sheffield site into an industrial park)

    Sheffield Retail Quarter: £12m

    Leeds Holt Park Well-being Centre: £50m

  108. Re Forgemasters - We should assemble every swearing obscenity in as many languages as possible to send to the beast who shall not be named.

    What happened to all the rhetoric about investment and recovery?

  109. This ain't a dog it's cross between:

    an idle Tory woman's cunt licker

    and a Tory WhorehouseKeeper and her slippers

  110. Yes Deano - it is horrendous outrage! The man is a grade a shitebag. He will of course still be loved I expect in many parts of Hallam - particularly new moneyed Ecclesall Road area which is full of tin pot millionairres. But as to the rest of Sheffield - he is a brave man if he shows his face.

  111. Alexander - Scotland hang your head in shame.

    i am speechles - forgemasters wanted (needed) this money to retool to fill orders already on the books.

    see many Quangos are going too - however the good news is that directors bonuses are on the up !!

    Who do we hang from lamposts first ?

  112. What is he playing at though PCC, it is like some kind of scorched earth policy from his point of view (unless his pal Dave gives him a safe Tory seat next time around).

    He could just about get away with the coalition by pretending that he thought the Lib Dems could affect change from within but how is he going to spin this one?

    It is like not liking someone, because you think they are selfish and weak and then finding out that they are actively evil.

    About the music, I agree the theme from Minder wins but I have an irrational hatred of everything Reggae because for the first 16 years of my life our neighbours played it at unbearable volume all the time, I feel like I have been robbed but it sets my teeth on edge in any form.

  113. Well, that's odd. Just tried to post something on Cif and got 'this account's privileges have been restricted' or something like that. Never been in pre-mod, can't remember posting anything inflammatory recently ... haven't been posting much at all! Profile still exists though.

  114. maybe sheffield being shafted will be spun by its most prominent mp as proof that 'cuts can come close to home', a sort of 'here, i even sacrifice myself', any attempt at which will be rightly torn to pieces.

  115. Maybe it's like one of those gang initiations where you have to have the shit kicked out of you before you're a full member.

    'cept this being ConDem, they prefer to 'contract out' the actual kicking to the people of Sheffield!!

  116. jennifera30 and others

    ...unless his pal Dave gives him a safe Tory seat next time around

    Although this is probably the case, the point is to wonder whether there is any likelihood whatsoever that any MP, whatever may happen to their career in years to come, will ever seriously look penury or homelessness or even a competitive jobs market in the face?

    It is no good pretending that by using our votes to change the faces we see on the telly, we have actually taught anyone a lesson or actually told them: "I suggest you think long and hard about your position here."

    The political classes can operate with impunity because they know with absolute certainty that they are insulated and immune from the real world forever more.

    They may have to lurch from quango to token directorship to media pundit to think tank, but they will never have to find a real job in the real world, so why should they care how much they fuck it up?

    So, like the cohorts of the neo-liberals or whatever label you care to choose, there will be no epiphanies, no forehead slaps and cries of, "How could I have been so stupid! I have been behaving appallingly all these years and now I must make amends."

    Now wonder how many people you actually know who you can seriously expect to do anything other than take whatever they are given, both politically and economically, even if that means getting down on their knees.

    Not going to happen, is it?

    Meanwhile, back in the Palace of Wonderland:

    The House of Commons yesterday staged an unusually well-attended debate. What burning issue saw so many MPs packed into Westminster Hall? Not the economy, nor the war in Afghanistan, but their own expenses. Despite the bruising experience of the past year, this subject is once again dominating the time and effort of our elected representatives. Though it had been widely hoped that the general election would draw a line under a scandal that tarnished the final year of the last Parliament, it appears to have marked only a temporary cessation of hostilities. [...]

    Sir Ian Kennedy, the Ipsa chairman, has accused some Members of aggressive behaviour towards his staff, and suggests that a minority are fundamentally opposed to the new external oversight. Yet the way MPs are behaving just a few weeks into the new Parliament only makes the case that they cannot be trusted to organise the system themselves.

    Obviously, if you see that the banks can get away with it totally scot-free and without a murmur, why shouldn't you?

  117. Thaum

    "Just tried to post something on Cif and got 'this account's privileges have been restricted' or something like that. Never been in pre-mod, can't remember posting anything inflammatory recently ... haven't been posting much at all! Profile still exists though."

    Without wanting to descend into complete tinfoilhattery, is it possible people are being 'punished' for stuff wot's bin sed 'ere??

  118. thaum

    I think CiF and Auld Plucky are still plugged into Gordon Brown's brain, which is itself linked to the naughty people's database.

    If you have said or done anything bad anywhere or anywhen, CiF will know about it.

    When Gordon Brown sleeps, Santa takes over.

  119. James


    Or anywhere.

    Even in their own heads.

    Even if they were not listening.

  120. Princess

    Fucking, fucking, fucking utter shits! It was a loan! Dumb ass monetarist fools. I suggest that Cleggy doesn't show his face around his constituency for a while. Traitorous little fuckpig!

    My thoughts exactly. So le grand trou de balle et mega branleur (thanks spike, excellent list) has hocked his soul and is selling Sheffield down the river...

    Well, we weren't the Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire for nothing - we must regain our spirit and resist - show les enculés what we think!!

  121. thaum - drawing attention to msSexpat's cavalier error could yet be the undoing of you.......misguided spite is an awesomely slimy thing, Opera is full of it.

  122. Suspect it may just be a glitch ... will try again later, but if not it's most certainly for things I've said here!

  123. Oh boy, MacShane piece up....

  124. Some good news.

    Talks aimed at a right wing coalition including the revolting Wilders have collapsed. The CDA, one of the prospective coaltions said they could not reconcile themselves with being in Govt with a man who wants 'ethnic registration' and a Muslim headscarf tax (you couldn't make it up).

    The chief negotiator is now investigating a 'purple plus' coalition between the VVD, Labour Party and others without Wilders.

    Additionally, the two provinces which voted overwhelmingly for Wilders have seen home tourist bookings plummet. Both Limburg and Zeeland tourist boards have admitted that record cancellations have been made since the siz eof the vote for Wilders in the provinces were revealed.

  125. Sheff/PCC/Chin - you need to get his Agents name and start writing to the local paper and fly posting around town with an innocent enquiry.......may I suggest a rolling campaign starting with something like....

    "Who brought tosser Clegg to our town?" etc

    "Time to name and shame the Bullindon conspirators....."

    "Ye shall know them by the company they keep...."

    "Shock Horror - Clegg found in Cameron/Osborne Orifce(s). Cable unable to get his oar in"

    "Clegg borrows Bullingdon Boys' clothes to forge a traitor's new career as Tory arsewiper"

    If it weren't so fucking dreadful and serious I could have enjoyed the fightback..

  126. Good news indeed, Duke! Tourist cancellations ... hmm, that's a great tactic.

  127. Deano

    There'll be big job losses at forgemasters - they were depending upon this loan.

    Will get into a huddle with some anarcho street fighters i know and see what they fancy doing.

  128. Perhaps they'll manage to do a back-room deal where one of their mates will loan Forgemasters the money? One can hope.

  129. Atomboy/Thaum

    Well, to be fair to them, WADDYA was closed down for the weekend, and, if you read the CiF talk policy carefully, article 275.6, clearly states that:

    Should CiF ever collapse under the weight of it's own cock-knockery, we reserve the right to co-opt, annexe, or otherwise snatch any other 'website' for our own purposes.
    (Like Eminent Domain, this is entirely consistent with our role as self-appointed spokespeople for the left, downtrodden and otherwise excluded sections of society).

    Should such a situation occur, said website, in the interests of the long-term good of society, shall, immediately and without exception, be subject to the same rules and standards of CiF, and anybody contravening our talk policy, shall receive the same arbitrary and capricious punishment, in order to re-align their (clearly misguided, and quite frankly, silly) worldview, however 'grounded in reality' it may be.

    Once again, this is not something we like doing, but, hey, sometimes you have to help the deluded spazzes and retards out, innit!!

    Also, Seaton rules OK!

    You could be forgiven for not seeing this, (It's mostly hidden behind an advert for an organically produced velvetine wallchart, plotting the history of post-feminist discourse via the medium of interpretative quilling), but, it is there, I'm afraid, and, it seems that we just have to accept it.

    I mean, they do know better than us, don't they!!

  130. ... thereby letting Nick off the hook and proving the wonders of the free market ...

  131. James - it all makes sense now, ta.

  132. Sheff - Good on you.

    "...fly posting around town...".Fegging video cameras make life more difficult for legitimate young protesters these days ....

  133. JessicaReed
    17 Jun 2010, 4:27PM
    Staff. We'll have somehting about the Sheffield cuts tomorrow afternoon

    PCC/Sheff/Chin - well done PCC (your suggestion has prompted a response) even though normally I can't be arsed with CiF these days I'll be commenting tommorrow. Perhaps we all oughty to encourage everyone to make some comment about the bastards.....

  134. "(It's mostly hidden behind an advert for an organically produced velvetine wallchart, plotting the history of post-feminist discourse via the medium of interpretative quilling)"



  135. I'd send up the flare for a McShane article, but it's the same one he wrote last time.

    and the time before that.

    and before that.

  136. Philippa

    Don't get me wrong, it's a nice wallchart and that, and for people like me, who have trouble with reading and whatnot, it sure does look pretty....


  137. "(It's mostly hidden behind an advert for an organically produced velvetine wallchart, plotting the history of post-feminist discourse via the medium of interpretative quilling)"

    Fuck me, us old timers just don't get it. I thought that the history was to be revealed by enhanced performance quilling (in verse). Plainly I know nowt.

  138. James that really made me laugh, thanks.

  139. If Mexico can at least get a draw tonight i,ll be a happy man.

    Was thinking last night that it would have been interesting if the rules had stated that if someone is sent off no-one is allowed to replace his position.Would have certainly led to some interesting bunfights in the SA penalty area.

    @Atomboy- I liked todays post on your CMW blog.

  140. Thauma did you see the OMG cat video someone posted on Waddya earlier, pretty cute.

  141. Hi Jen, no, I'll have a look....

  142. Just realised that Hank et al may rip me to shreds for mentioning a cat video but what the hell.


    Cruel but funny (don't do me please ;) )

  143. Heh heh. Bet it wasn't only the cat.

  144. Deano

    I don't know if it's so much an age thing per se, rather an 'us being a bit dim and northern, and therefore not appreciating the finer points of interpretive quilling' thing.

    I could be wrong though.


    You're welcome. You made me laugh quite a bit last week, so it's the least I could do.

    (Oh, and *whispering, that cat thing made me laugh too....)

  145. *whispers* I think Hank likes cats.

    Anyway, Cif posting panic over. Think it was the cookiebot what done it.

    (I mean, if I'm going to get banned, I want it to be for a good reason.)

  146. http://liberalconspiracy.org/2010/04/30/is-this-the-best-anti-tory-video-of-the-election/

  147. ee, it were all interpretive dance round 'ere when i were a lass...

    (another cat-based laugh came from this direction)

  148. Interpretive dance Philippa, Interpretive dance!!

    What is dance, if not seduction with music, and what is seduction if not the complete subjugation and objectification of women, and what is the Complete S and O of women, if not the complete and total 'masculinasation' of the meta-narratives of 'post-personal his-story', eh!?

    Schoolboy (sorry, schoolperson) error that Pipster.....

  149. "so I became MP for Whitney"

    pffffffffff heheheheheheheheheheh again

  150. ah, james, james, james...

    you are failing to appreciate the difference between 'dance' and 'interpretive dance', the latter being a subversion of the traditional tropes of the former, to form a vibrant new part of the discourse.

    this is an easy mistake (for a man) to make, admittedly - remember, in the 1970s, there was a move to characterise 'speech' as simply a throwback to previous male-dominated times such that womyn were forced to resort to poetry, ceramics and conceptual art in order to be able to 'speak' without submitting to the outdated concept of 'speech' itself. But as catherine mckinnon once said, 'fuck that, are you lot all totally crazy?'.

    thus, dancing is ok as long as it isn't at all sexy or sensual or even attractive (except towards members of your own gender and other marginalised gender / orientation groups, and then only in a mutually agreed and strictly 'hands-off' sense).

    and please be aware that references to her-'story', while appropriate in the sense of a wider narrative encompassing art and stuff, does hold the unpleasant implication that the subject matter (mater) is 'not true', which, if you see 'truth' as being essentially more valuable than intuition, can be seen as deeply offensive.

    just so you are aware.


  151. James - your probably right, as PeterB said, and Montana now puts it at the top of the page we UT's are plain thuggish and thick .

    Still if we post long enough I'm sure that we will find someone willing to take an internship as UT resident quiller. Could be a smart career move.

    I hope so for I would be sad to go to my grave having never made an improper suggestion to a quiller..ah a life incomplete, perhaps a chapter for Leni's/Chekhov's pending work...

    pensioner deano assaults quiller with a c-scroll and then a spiral

    Come to think of it I might go to night school in the autumn for the learning of a new art.......watch this space

    Beautiful sunny evening here. the North bank pillar of the Humber bridge catching the evening light on my Southern horizon!

    Dog walking calls.

  152. That video gave me the first laugh of the day Jay - so thanks. We're going to need a few laughs round here to offset the bloody shit that's about to descend on our heads.

    The knock on effects of the forgemasters debacle will be very serious. There's a little engineering factory next door to my building (I live in the old industrial heartland now) and another across the road - I just hope they can stagger on.

    I thought the condems were supposed to be encouraging investment in business and industry - it seems not after all.

  153. I want an interpretive dancer with a side line in performance poetry

    "..as long as it isn't at all sexy or sensual or even attractive..."

    What a disappoint PB I was hoping to find one who could talk/dance vulgar if not downright mucky.

  154. Philippa,

    Well played young padawan, well played....


    We actually did a bit of quilling at primary school, but it got stopped when the daft kid ended up glue-gunning himself to the table.
    'Elf and safety and all that...

    Enjoy the dog walking!!

  155. I can do any kind of dance without being sexual, sensual or even attractive (you should see my northen soul dance ;) ) now at least I know I am being interpretive rather than just a rubbish dancer.

  156. "We actually did a bit of quilling at primary school, but it got stopped when the daft kid ended up glue-gunning himself to the table."
    my friend rachel once stapled her thumb to a desk.

    the PSE syllabus was so uninspiring back then, people resorted to desperate lengths...

  157. interpretive dance - is it something like this

  158. "..pensioner deano assaults quiller with a c-scroll and then a spiral..

    Sounds too aggressive - should have read ...assaults quiller with a dazzling c-scroll and then a sublime spiral. I think that's more my natural style

  159. I actually had to google quilling (I thought you said quilting James) I must have gone to a really rubbish school we just did collages.

  160. That's it Sheff - they are dancing "Oh my God someone just farted". I think I saw the premier at Hull Truck quite recently

  161. Thanks for the kind words from various people yesterday and today. They are appreciated.

    I am actually doing something a little more serious, which might interest some people, although I have been waiting for new software to be released (happened this afternoon) so it is not quite beta, as the geeky kids say, but more pre-alpha, which is probably more like "Aaarrrgh!"

    Anyway, I have asked Montana if she minds my pointing to it here, but she has not replied, so I won't.

    I hope that short statement clarifies matters.

    As you were.

  162. Looking forward to a link Atomboy, is it TV news related?

  163. Of course the OKEY COKEY and the POGA are the two dances that most represent the sheer majesty of Interpretive English Dancing.

  164. Atomboy,

    is that your 'opencopynews' site? I saw it when looking at your moderation website. It looks good.

  165. Philippa

    Yeah, I know, I switched off for a few minutes, once, and I still get teased mercilessly about it....



  166. Paul

    Indeed, the Okey Cokey is what it's all about!!

    I'll get my coat....



    A (very) belated Happy Birthday from me!


  167. I have just had how much I see myself as a victim thrown in my face and it was a big wake up call.

    I was just talking to my sister about meeting up to watch the match tomorrow and she is already going to a barbie/party, I was just about to say ok never mind and she asked me what time I wanted picking up (it never occured to me that I could go with her).

    Then I was whinging about being stuck in the house studying when it is hot with no garden to sit out in and she just said bring your stuff over here and study in our garden.

    She is out all day and she has a nice secluded garden with both shade and sun to enjoy.

    Fucking hell I need a change of attitude.

  168. Come on France. Play some sodding football. you know you want to.

  169. According to C4 news - Delroy Smellie, the large plod who hit a (small) woman with a metal baton at the G20 protests will not be disciplined/prosecuted.

    He was just ticked off for not wearing his ID number.

    So thats ok then - plod can whack us with impunity - as long as they're wearing their IDs.

  170. Jen and Wybourne

    I will quickly say - with my head slightly ducked in anticipation that Montana might throw something - that OpenCopyNews is half or perhaps one third of it.

    I strongly think that unless people grasp and grab a better hold of how news happens and is distributed, we will forever be bludgeoned and manipulated by the likes of Murdoch or lied to and drowned with syrupy kindness by the likes of the Guardian.

    We have to stop being the courtiers and supplicants of the established news media and generate and share our own versions of events, which are unlikely to be the same as the "narrative" which Polly & Co have tried to foist on us.

    This is not new. There is the IndyMedia network and there is NowPublic, each of which do fine jobs.

    So, a brief rundown there. Obviously, it would be ideal for Sheff and others to say what is happening in Sheffield and not just have to read what a fuckwit from London thinks is happening, after receiving a briefing from a minister and spending ten minutes on Google.

    The other bit is CivilActivism.com

    That is to provide a platform and focal-point for people who want to take action, which might be something like local food and allotment groups. It does not have to involve violence, but obviously we need to keep an open mind on that.

    The other one - I will keep under wraps until I know whether Montana is flexing her saucepan-throwing arm.

    I will be happy to hear from anyone about these, but keep in mind there is a bit of work to get them functioning properly.


    atomboy -(at)- atomboy -(dot)- org

    Many thanks and best wishes.

  171. Paul - I've been told that they still teach morse code in Irish schools so that the kids get the finer messages from Interpretive Irish clog jigging.

    It's rumoured that one nun tap danced 'fuck the Pope' but it may be just a rumour, although the next thing morse was on the national curriculum of Eire.

    I guess yuou knew that anyway.

  172. OpenCopy thing sounds good if that is indeed what we're on about Atomboy.

  173. PS Atomboy's tip of the day (which might be an old one recycled):

    If you post a comment and get an error page here, check whether you have closed you tags - the things in angle brackets like this < and this >

  174. Jenn - that's good news girl. It's what sisters are for.

    Sheff Happy birthday from me too. Call it early for next year if too late for this.

  175. Bitterweed

    Yes, I think it is.

    In seeking to be polite, I seem to have become sufficiently obscure to confuse myself.

    Once Montana gives permission, I will expand and clarify.

  176. Jen

    For what it's worth, I had 'one of them weeks' last week, and like I said earlier, when I got chance to pop in here, some of your posts cheered me right up.

    I think you'd be a great addition to any BBQ/football match (there might even be an opening in goal soon).


    Sounds interesting, and am definitely looking forward to it.

    (I'm shite at computer type stuff, and six thousand miles away from 'what's happening', but I'd be happy to contribute anyway, you know, if it'd help...)

  177. James you can be a foreign correspondant. ;)

    I am not feeling bad by the way it is just an example of how the depression (that I am kind of coming out of) has isolated me.

    Simple problems become overwhelming and you get used to living inside your own head.

    Feck all that I am going out. ;)

  178. Atomboy - I didn't see Montana objecting when we picked up on her wish to see UT as more of a collective than a sole proprietorship.

    I posted you the link to CP Scott's famous essay which includes the famous 'CiF but facts are sacred'....followed the need to respect your opponents views. Perhaps you should 'cannibalise' it as a header (rationale) for your new venture when it is launched.

    I too saw your notes and look forward to the next steps.


  179. Is it just me or does every shot on goal seem to go sky high?

    Is it the ball that they have been going on about or is it something else?

  180. jen

    "Simple problems become overwhelming and you get used to living inside your own head".

    Beautifully put. Enjoy your evening.

  181. Oh I am not going out this evening Ms Chin that will take a bit of building up to. ;)

  182. Things are getting very dirty in Kyrgystan. I hope its not going to turn into another Balkans - a lot of Uzbeks are being murdered - more than we're being told about.

  183. James

    I'll take you up on that in due course. Thank you.


    I saw your comments, thanks. Sorry for not responding at the time.

    At which point, I have to do things but hope to be back later.

  184. Sheffpixie
    2,000 slaughtered and counting. It will appear on the news after the World Cup. Do we have the (global) leadership or resource. More realistically - is there the political will in Russia ?..

  185. I meant after the tournament's over. It's going to be all about BP/US oil abroad, white papers at home, and gormless despondency over England's performance everywhere until then.

  186. I couldn't believe how little coverage the original revolution in Kyrgystan got, in all forms of media I had to search to try and find what was going on (I never really got the full story).

    I expect this to get as much coverage (ie nothing much) unless they are fighting on a gas pipeline.

  187. Ah well BW - the footie tournament - much more important than 2,000 dead Uzbeks. Who are we to argue with these priorities!!

  188. Has anyone read Orangehearts comment on waddya?

  189. Evening all!

    Jenn - depression does strange things to you. Going out and doing things, if you can get up the courage and energy to do it, is a great remedy.

    Did I spot speedkermit in here earlier? Haven't seen him about for yonks!

    I guess now that Henry Porter has thrown in the organic egyptian cotton towel he is bereft of sparring partners on CiF :p

  190. Bloody hell - haven't seen the news. Just nipping over to the beeb website.

  191. I used to read liberty central, that is where I know Speed Kermit from, funny guy.