11 June 2010


That photo, thats you old folk reeling in shock at the new colour scheme, thats what that is. I was considering volunteering to help out at those "silver surfer" courses teaching old people to use the net but I think I've got my hands full with you lot ;)

I changed it back, then few said "no i like it, easier to read", then others said "harder to read, dont like it". But this is the UT after all so to be expected...

Anyway, perhaps we give it till Monday, so we get a bit used to it, and can make an informed choice. I prefer it because its less obvious when boss walks by, the white that is, and the old colour scheme felt a bit drab to me at times. But we'll have it for a couple of days and then have a vote maybe.

Madison and the financial crisis:

"In fact, our current crisis and power structure were summed up with stunning accuracy by the Founding Fathers themselves. What James Madison called, “the daring depravity of the times.” As he described, “The stock-jobbers will become the praetorian band of the government, at once its tools and its tyrants, bribed by its largesse, and overawing it by clamors and combinations. Substituting the motive of private interest in place of public duty, leading to a real domination of the few under an apparent domination of the many.”

Leave it to Madison, the Father of the Constitution, to give us one of the most prescient quotes on modern-day America you can find. For those of you who have never heard the term “stock-jobbers,” here’s the definition from a dictionary written in 1811:

“Stock Jobbers -

Persons who gamble in Exchange Alley, by pretending to buy and sell the public funds, but in reality only betting that they will be at a certain price, at a particular time; possessing neither the stock pretended to be sold, nor money sufficient to make good the payments for which they contract: these gentlemen are known under the different appellations of bulls, bears, and lame ducks.”


  1. Morning all


    FWIIW i like your new UT style, but then again i am contrary. Thanks for your dilligent work putting the threads up. Keep that boss at bay.

  2. Jay,

    I'm down with this IT lark. I've tippexed my screen to blank out the bits that are making my eyes go funny, I'll be fine.

    That's a great quote and as you say remarkably prescient. One of the best critiques of capitalism I have ever read is the Asterix book Obelix and Co. You should check it out sometime if you get the chance. It's also hilariously funny.


    can't find head nor tail of Dutch women being given money to tart themselves up to get off benefits. Have you got a link?

  3. Your Grice:

    can't find head nor tail of Dutch women being given money to tart themselves up to get off benefits.

    Such a measure would almost certainly be unconstitutional unless it extended to men as well.

  4. Hello Jay


    Morning Medev morning your Dukeness!

    Great quote.

    I sometimes think we are about to enter Bladerunner times....the terrifying pyramid of the Tyrell Corporation dominating everything is almost a reality. We will become Ruger Hauer.

  5. Duke

    I'm sure I could request a copy of the Obelix & Co. book from our Library.

    I'm off for a stomp around the park as it's raining and therefore I'll have the place to myself... my own private garden! I'm also a bit hungover so it will clear the cobwebs a bit.

  6. I was a big Asterix fan in my younger days, Duke, I'll try and get my hands on it. There is a lot of amazing quotes from early US politicians on banking, primarily concerning allowing private banks to issue money and the inevitable injustice that stems from it.

    I saw an interesting google video on it, apparently at one point the fledgling US state started issuing its own currency and controlling the money supply publicly. Britains money men were having none of it and the rest is history. Wilson said the signing of the Federal Reserve Act, 1913, was the worst act of his Presidency, that he had "ruined his country".

  7. Jay - this silver surfer used to teach IT- ran a course for 'The terrified'! (LOL!) I like this layout but iiisome might find a very pale blue(or green) is more restful.

    Got to go and turn off the radio! That greedy basket Stuart Rose is on Desert Island Discs UGH!

  8. Morning Annetan

    There is some pale blue and green templates if people want to try them, theres about 15 templates, most with a couple of colour options, so can play around until we find something agreeable. I quite like the idea of helping at those courses, if i was retired the web would be a lifesaver.

  9. 'if I was retired the web would be a lifesaver'

    It certainly is - especially the shopping and places like this!

  10. Exactly, Amazon, online news, blogs, ebay, can do food shopping online have it delivered, wikipedia, google maps, train times, etc.

  11. Morning folks,

    Jay, count me among the old folks, but I'll try to make some constructive criticisms: Make the background left and right to the text section a very light gray, and it should look better. And as you're at playing around with this site, maybe you could do a link on UT2, again, not just on the most current (or is it?) article over there.

  12. I have a theory; I reckon the new layout looks better on big widescreens, where the main text is dead in the middle.

    And silver surfer, you flibbertigibbet? Silver I may be, but I've been in IT since 1976, when microprocessors were a foot across and you had to load programs a bit at a time.


  13. Rutger Hauer? Count me in!

    It looks good, Jay, though I'm not sure I like the move to the left. Of the links that is...

  14. I'll see if i can tinker with the colour schemes but annoyingly there doesnt seem an option for general background colour.

    "Noob" - the cheek of it.

  15. Morning All.

    Re wine: I only buy European wine from supermarkets. Well, occasionally an Aus one. Oh hell, I do Chilean or Argentine once in a while.

    Never S African though!

  16. Jay:

    Some states treated their own citizens even worse. Seven of them [out of the original thirteen] issued paper money, and the subsequent wild fluctuations in value quickly made princes of speculators and paupers of creditors. America's reputation in Europe plunged, along with its credit. At home, men with heavy debts were set against men of wealth and property.

    One American who was deeply troubled by this state of affairs was James Madison, and during the spring and summer months of 1786 he deliberately took time off from other affairs to attempt to find a way out. At thirty-five, Madison had served in both the Virginia legislature and the Confederation Congress. He had observed the problems at close hand. He knew from experience the difficulties of attempting to resolve them with the inadequate tools of the Articles of Confederation. A graduate of the College of New Jersey (today Princeton) and a scholar with an unquenchable thirst for knowledge, he plunged into a wide-ranging study of the principles of republican government and the problems of federations.

    Isolating himself in his room at Montpelier, his father's plantation house in Orange County, Virginia, Madison daily spent the hours between breakfast and dinner poring over books sent from Paris at his request by his friend Thomas Jefferson, then serving as American Minister to France. Week by week, he worked his way painstakingly through tomes on history, plitics, and commerce, analyzing the experiences of both ancient and modern federations and republics. By the time he was forced to turn to other things, Madison knew as much about confederate government as anyone in America. And he was more than ever convinced that if the barely united states did not strengthen the bonds of their union, they faced potential disaster.

    A MORE PERFECT UNION The Making of the United States Constitution by William Peters 1987, Crown Publishers New York.

    I have to shoot off to a bit of work now, but will type in the next three paragraphs a little later.

  17. Mornin all. For the first time in my life yesterday afternoon, my 'eyes went a bit funny' it was like a small corruscatinjg rainbow, or a section of the gear wheel from a watch, all in twisting light, but only in a little patch in my right eye. Turned off the monitor and did other things for half an hour.. It went away.

    Weird shit at work this morning, we have a radio controlled clock, the minuite hand started going round like the second hand, Then 1 bay of lights in my shop display started flashing like a disco, I disconnected them. Maybee the ghosts of the old home farm (that this building used to be) dislike our new exhibition?

  18. Dear Montana

    I was very sorry to hear your news and send my condolences. There never seems much to say which makes sense but I am sure everyone here would be happy to try to help in any way they can.


    Without actually bothering to check, there should be something in the admin area which will allow you to change the CSS files. Look for something like "background color: #FFFFFF;" near the top (or bgcolor and you have to keep the American spelling) and change it to something like #D2D2D2 for a light grey or look up hexadecimal colour charts and take your pick.

    With regard to things similar to this, does anyone know how to set up Nginx as a reverse proxy to Apache, with Varnish HTTP cache and maybe using Cherokee instead of Apache?

    I could struggle through it myself, I suppose, but if anyone has done it, please hold up your hand now.

    PS Sorry for being absent lately. I had a sick note but the dog ate it.

  19. OK

    Back from the park! Lots of dogs to keep me happy, watched two Cormorants fishing in one of the ponds, watched the Parakeets have a head fit as the resident Heron flew in for breakfast.... Wrens singing, rain, verdant and fresh... food for the soul ;)

    I'm with Annetan Jay re: the background colour... pale blue or pref. green would be easier on the eyes.


    If you watch the film/doc Mondevino (posted link yesterday) you'll never buy a bottle of the Australian wine again and definitely NEVER Californian wine (vile stuff)

    I don't buy it on principle 1. because it's always too sickly for me (tastes industrialised - if you watch the film you'll know why) and 2. because one of the many Australian's I worked with in restaurents over the years told me.....

    "oh, we send all our shit wine over to the UK market and you suckers pay 6 quid a bottle for it"



    Great comment there and as with the Obelix book, I'll try and get hold of the Peter's book from me local Library.


    Always loved Rutger in that film - I just love the final shots in slow-motion as he lets go of the white dove - thinking about it even now brings a lump to my throat.

  20. @Turminder

    I get those 'gear wheel' things from time to time. We're lucky really; they're generally associated with migraines, and it seems that what we're getting is migraine without the pain.

    They're generally called 'fortification figures', as they look a bit like the plans of old Vauban forts, and there's some stuff about the painless sort if you run a search on that.

    I normally get them in a kind of circular patch across about half-way across the visual field of both eyes (showing it's in the brain rather than the eyes), with a flickering luminous geared edge. Then it slowly shrinks over twenty minutes or so.

    Sorry to ramble on, but it's interested me since I got it the first time and thought it was a brain tumour or haemorrhage in my usual optimistic manner.

    On the watch and disco lights, I suggest UFOs or an Indian burial ground. It's usually one or the other of those.

  21. Turminderxuss:

    "For the first time in my life yesterday afternoon, my 'eyes went a bit funny' it was like a small corruscatinjg rainbow, or a section of the gear wheel from a watch, all in twisting light, but only in a little patch in my right eye"

    That's the start of a migraine... god I've not had one for sometime but when I was very stressed, I went through a phase where I was literally having them every day on my way to work... always as I was walking to the Tube and by the time I got onto a train, I was blind with the flashing lights.

    Stress and some white wines are a trigger for me.

  22. @LaRit

    There is good Australian wine, made properly, but it costs a bloody fortune for fairly obvious reasons given how far it has to come. And to be fair to Australian and NZ winemakers, they have been doing some good work in Europe wineries improving local produce in quality and consistency.

  23. PeterJ:

    I didn't mean to tarnish all Aussie wine with the same brush, but agreed, there are some small producers making some very special wine - but yes, it's prohibitively expensive.

    It's the highly industrialised stuff that makes me gag... also, I think many of the French producers shot themselves in the foot with their terrible snobbery about the 'terroir'.

    I used to have quite an extensive knowledge of wine from all the restaurants I worked in over the years.... discovered the wonderful Albarino (from Galicia) this way and also the ludicrously delicious Ruinart Champagne... unfortunately I forgot a good deal but once you get switched on to really wonderful (not cheap) wine, it's hard when you ain't got the pocket to match your tastes!

  24. Wicked PeterJ! I've had 'floaters' in the eyes since I was a kid and some uncle telling me it was amoebas living in my eyes. But the rainbow cogwheel was new, (haven't had strong hallucinogens for a few years..) good to know I'm not alone!

    The place i work was named for standing stones that used to be on this site, a chap turned up dowsing a while ago, he was drawn to the end cottage in a row of four, near the visitor centre. "Can I help you?" Said the old dear who was pottering in her garden, 'I'm interested in ley lines' sez the boy. "Ah, come in for a cup of tea.."

    The chap is in her kitchen, he says 'I wish I knew where the old standing stones were'

    "I can't tell you where they were son, but I can tell you where they are.. You're on them."

    The stones had been moved and then used as her kitchen floor, funny that's the house his twigs lead him to..

    So is't prolly Druids fucking with our tech : )

  25. @LaRit

    I discovered one of the small Australian producers when one of my local shops started selling it, and for some reason priced it not much above standard Australian stuff. Maybe they just stuck a case in the same container as a gross of Jacob's Creek, or something.

    Then some bastard in the Sunday Times reviewed it, and the price trebled overnight.

  26. @Turminder

    There's a typical image of a Vauban fort here - take a look and see if it's familiar.

  27. PeterJ:

    Ain't it the way? We used to sell an Australian wine in a restaurant I worked in at 250 quid a pop! If you sold one in your section, you got a meal on the house ;)

    If you've not tried Albarino, I can highly recommend it.... truly delish, but around 10 quid a bottle, so I really don't indulge too often - I'm usually limited to the 2.99 Italian stuff that occasionally is proper 'Controllata'

  28. @LaRit

    Will watch out for it.

  29. Just read Ally's post on the Nesrine Malik thread!

    Had to giggle!

    Its a little bit rubbish! You'll have to read it to know why I sid that ;)

  30. Had a look at the Vauban fort... similar to my 'flashing lights' but mine invariably are flashing zig-zags forming a crescent. If I get the headache tablets before the lights stop, I can usually manage it, but hideous things

  31. Morning all

    re wine: here there is little choice to be honest it's all Italian to even suggest drinking other wines is almost a capital offence.

    "I'm usually limited to the 2.99 Italian stuff that occasionally is proper 'Controllata'"

    tell me it's not Frascati........or from Naples...

  32. Right, skiving off work again to continue the little background on Madison and the evils of (paper) money and so on.

    The major problem, as he [Madison] saw it, lay with the state legislatures. It was the legislatures, not the people of the states, that had repeatedly failed to support the Confederation Congress. It was the legislatures, with their paper money, that had destroyed the confidence of many people in popular government. It was the legislatures, deliberately strengthened by the new state constitutions and carefully democratized to provide genuine representation of the people, that in state after state had fallen under the control of small farmers eager to pay off their debts with inflated paper money.

    Beneath the struggles over paper money lurked a more basic contest between men of property and wealth and men with little of either. Animosity between the two groups revealed as never before a class struggle whose existence most Americans had either ignored or denied. The rehabilitation of loyalists and the quick restoration of their former social status was deeply resented by many ordinary citizens. The society of Cincinnati, formed at the end of the war [of independence] by angry, unpaid Revolutionary officers preparing to return to their homes, raised hackles not only among the lower orders of the army but among genuine republicans everywhere. With a charter calling for hereditary membership, the Cincinnati almost immediately came under suspicion as the potential nucleus of a future aristocracy. Four states actually passed resolutions against the exclusive veterans' organization.

    Here endeth my little background as of 1786 before the Convention drafting the U.S. Constitution in Philadelphia 1787. Ref. as in my post above, pp. 7-9.

  33. @LaRit

    Yeah, the zig-zag crescent is what I get. I think the Vauban comparison is to the shape of the edge, which struck some history nut when trying to describe what the crescent looked like.

    Never had a migraine, though. Just the crescents.

  34. I used to get those crescents, don't any more - don't know why

  35. Well, weirdly enough blogger seems to have redesigned its redesign tools since last night, if you see what i mean. Now a lot of templates from yesterday, including our original, dont seem to be available. Nor this one for that matter.

    The new ones are customisable, all colours etc, so could change background colour on a new template, but not this one.

    The new templates are all a little bland, just plain text with different colours really, and a few with weird picture backgrounds. Maybe i'll have a play around tonight...

  36. Excellent Medve. US history (18th & 19th centuries) is a particular fave of mine.

    I was telling Jay a while ago I read a great book called "Measuring America" by Andro Linklater about how America was, erm, measured (using Gunter's Chain, mostly) and parcelled up into blocks.

    It touches on decimalisation, units of weight, volume and measure, key figures in the Revolution like Jefferson, Madison, Adams and others, the Oklahoma Land Rush, and much much more.

  37. Morning all

    @Duke-I,m crap at links but if you log on
    to-EuropeNewsTimesOnline-the story you want
    is headed-''Jobless Women Can Go To Dating


  38. Aye, (eye), Peter Finer teeth on mine, thank Allah theres no pain. I've seen pals knocked out with Migraines..

    NapK gets his 'C'!

  39. Gandolfo:

    ....tell me it's not Frascati........or from Naples...

    Lambrini ;0)

  40. By the way, premiere yesterday went well, thanks for all the wishes of good luck here :-)

    And again thanks to deano for pointing out the review of the Hull Truck adaption; all of my ensemble think it would be extremely cool to have a rubber tentacle dragging screaming actors off stage :-)

  41. I have to say though, I've never, ever been disappointed by a Montepulciano no matter what denominazioni...

  42. LaRit - I go for French or Spanish by preference. Oz is mostly crap, as is Cali (although they do produce some good wines, they also keep the best for themselves - can't even find it elsewhere in the US). Had some excellent wines in Argentina, very reasonable price too. Again hard to find a decent one here.

  43. Elementary:

    I was going to ask how it went.... I did a premiere of some new vocal pieces in January... the fear got to me a bit. am glad it went well though ;)


    You're lucky never to have the headache, it's truly horrific. But yes, the edge of the Vauban is unsettlingly accurate.

    But agree the vauban

  44. Paul et al


    The first sentence is misleading and incomplete:

    Unemployed Dutch women are being offered a €1,400 (£1,150) fashion and beauty makeover and free membership of a dating agency to get them off the dole by finding a solvent husband.

    As i said earlier, it would almost certainly be unconstitutional in this way. However:

    Mr Visser said that the first candidate for the scheme had already enrolled. It is available to men and women, but he said he expected most of his clients to be female. “Social security costs €650 a month and Friesland pays us around €650 once — so when they are able to get someone out of social security, they have made their money back after just one month,” he said.

    More than 600 unemployed people are eligible for the scheme in the three councils. However, after publicity, some of it adverse, in the Dutch media, the scheme has been put on hold in one of the councils and put under review in the second, with a spokesman saying they were “reconsidering their plans”.

    Typical Murdoch crap.

  45. Thauma;

    Me, always the Spanish... unless it's the 2.99 Itlaian jobs detailed above!

    Would love to go to Argentina, met some really lovely Argentinian people in Barcelona.... Also Patagonia.... pretty much anywhere in South America in fact! Bombom el Perro - another favourite film of mine ;0)

  46. Good work, elementary. Bis, bis!

  47. Bombom el Perro, 5* Beaut of a Hound!

  48. "We will become Ruger Hauer."

    Hmm... so many good lines...

    "I want more life, f@cker !"

    And you're right...
    "Time to die" - one hell of a scene. Filme noir sci fi brilliance.

    I still have the Vangelis soundtrack on tape. Also awesome in its own right, but combined with Scott's visuals, stunning. The scene where Dekkerd's at the piano, littered with photographs, on his second large glass of scotch ruminating what a life without memories could mean... to Rachel
    Sodding excellent !

  49. PeterJ:

    And silver surfer, you flibbertigibbet? Silver I may be, but I've been in IT since 1976, when microprocessors were a foot across and you had to load programs a bit at a time.

    I remember that microprocessors (8080, Z80, 6800, 6502) came in 40 pin DIL packages in the late seventies, which puts your hyperbole factor at about six.

  50. Now, medeve, Peter may have been working with punchcards...

    Read excellent short story 'Zima Blue' (Reynolds, A.) at the weekend, about AI.

  51. Turminder:

    That doggie! It's just a beautiful film. Actually saw a Dogo Hound in Bologna (in the anarchist part of town naturally) in the flesh they're like a mythical beast.


    Ah, yes... it stands the test of time... there's something so poignant about that scene in the apartment, yes, I love the soundtrack. I do feel with what we face now, for us little people, we will become obsolete in a way. Memories/dreams of the chance of a better life/time obsolete...

    I also love Sebastian and his automatons.

    If you can get a copy, try reading Edison's Eve - A Magical History of the Quest for Mechanical Life by Gaby Wood, it's a wonderful book.

  52. Hyperbole, medve? You can't get decent hyperbole these days...

  53. @Turminder

    Did you take a look at that Silverberg thing?

  54. Just looked her up and I guess to satisfy the US market the book title has been altered to 'Living Dolls: The Magical History of...' which is a shame - I liked Edison's Eve.

  55. What an eclectic stream of comments to wake up to after .....several bottles of Chile...............woodchip removal,tedious as it is, has it's own reward.

    Could be false memory syndrome but (thaum & Chin) I'm sure that I did not take advantage of the young Tesco girl.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again UT really is a shit hot place to ligg around in.

    (man tips hat to his admired friends)

    Mungo is licking me to submission - dog walking calls.

  56. @PeterJ, The linky didn't work at work. I'll check it over the weekend tho. Hope you'll all pop in on the Unemployment panel..

  57. Does anyone know who Snapshackle is on CiF? really good poster - like him/her a lot.

  58. Thanks La Ritournelle I'll try and have a look. Philip K Dick's books often make cracking movies, but Bladerunner's in a class of its own, arguably the finest hour for everyone involved - acting, production, direction. It's in my top ten all time. Real nerd question perhaps - directors cut or original ?

  59. @BW:

    Director's Cut for me. Can't get enough of that movie. Hell, I'd sit and watch the cuttings off the editing room floor if I had them.

    Top 5 all time for me, mate.

  60. super exciting article on Dutch Politics up on UT2 now!

    Possibly the first and last time 'exciting' and 'Dutch Politics' have been used in the same sentence.

    As usual Mr Verbose here has made it a bit longer than expected. There's a bit of History and Geography and analysis of this week.

    What you politics and social democrat fiends may find interesting is parts 2 and 3 which explain how the electoral process and the 'social model' works. In terms of comparisons and contrasts with the UK, I levae it up to your good selves to make.

    I rushed it a bit because the World Cup starts today and there is no way in God's earth I would have got it done during the footballing feast.

    Anyway, hope you like it and any questions, erm ask medve, he's Dutch.....

  61. I like the Directors Cut meself... went special to the cinema to watch it!

    Nothing like seeing that film on a big screen...


    I also have a deep affection for Forbidden Planet, but it's never on the telly, ever.

  62. Turminder. Yes I have earned my stripes.
    I bet Jay is gutted! Banned from going ATL and all that.

    Good piece you made.

    Unfortunately my 'C' means I can no longer make guttery snide comments, from now on in all my posts I will have to write with the air of an elder statesmen, the voice of reason, like Ally Fogg.

  63. @LaRitournelle:

    As boggle-eyed Alex Cox used to say on the Beeb's Moviedrome strand back in the day, "it's a good film... not a great film... but a good film..." Though of course it had Leslie Nielsen doing his "leading man" bit.

    This Island Earth was a bit of belter as well, but Mystery Science Theater 3000: The Movie completely ruined it for me (and improved it immeasurably as well, I feel).

  64. "I bet Jay is gutted! Banned from going ATL and all that."

    It was me who suggested you to Jess, you cheeky little scamp.

  65. Congrats: NapoleonK:

    When you up?


    I've not seen This Island Earth for some reason - have to see if I can donwload it. But agree with Alex Cox about FP. Love Leslie Nielson in it - it's the radiophonics soundtrack that I love - and the Krell .... the monstrous mechanical 'other world' just brilliant.

    If you ever come across it there's an Japanese anime version of Metropolis about... saw it at the ICA about 10 years ago - it's just bloody marvellous.

  66. This Island Earth is much loved by sci-fi film buffs, partly because at face value it's just a ludicrous 50s commie scare movie masquerading as sci fi, complete with lurid poster of scantily-clad maiden being manhandled (alien-handled?) by a big nasty monster... I won't spoil it for you though, if you fancy watching it.

  67. LaRit
    "Lambrini girls just wanna have fun," ;P)

    Montepulciano is a pretty good bet...both red and white.....

    I said naples cos the ground is full of dioxins and other toxic waste best to avoid anything from Campania....


    you'll get a cyber slap if you become a clone of the voice of reason ;0)!!

  68. But yes it is annoying to be officially unouchable for ATL duties (at the Guardian anyway).

  69. La Rit / Swifty

    This is where I get my butt kicked. Although the original lost the ambiguous ending (will they survive, IS Dekkerd a replicant?), I'm just all over that narration.

    I think it's the comic book kid in me that never grew up.

    M. Emmet Walsh for best supporting role by the way.

    I lived in london twenty years ago with some mates; one of them had a girlfriend who looked the spit of Sean Young, and she used to flirt with me outrageously. Her name was Rachel too. Damn that was hard. Her boyfriend was a six foot brickie called Belly, which helped keep things in perspective.

  70. Some great posts by Ragged on the unemployment thread. He should be writing a sitcom on this subject.

  71. @BW:

    Yep, know what you mean. I like narrated films/TV and shit, as a rule. Unless it's the bloody Wonder Years.

    But then my taste in fillums is pretty much all over the shop. Napoleon Dynamite is in the top 5 as well.


  72. ND is a superb film, Swift, comedies that are actually funny seem very rare indeed.

  73. @Jay:

    Just been catching up on a bit of Uncle Rico. "Wanna make a bet I can throw a football over them mountains?"

    That man is the greatest thing in that film. No doubt in mah mind.

  74. Primacy effect? The Marlowe narration? Original 4 me too!

  75. I like ND's brother, mainly cos he reminds me of Bitey.

    Also people, the Duke has just put a piece up on UT2 on Dutch election, having a bit of trouble changing the link on this site to reflect it.

    I missed Sheffs piece too for that reason, just read it, recommend it to all who missed it. Short but very interesting little piece.

  76. Have they told you officially that you are permanently banned from going ATL, Jay?

    If so, they are heartless bastards.

  77. Jay, this is important, this isn't your website, did you have Montana's permission to do this change? I would seriously consider changing it back, straight away.

    When someone goes away because of a hard time, it would be wise to not re-decorate their house in your own interest.

  78. BW/Swifty

    To be fair, I can't remember Bladerunner without it - but did see it when it came out so, it was along, long time ago now ... think we have a copies here on vid both with and without... that's my viewing for the weekend sorted! I'm pathetic though, I used to go to the cinema all the time and now have a real block about it also mainly because I have real difficulty with violence as well as the fact that it's become ridiculously expensive.

    Re: This Island Earth - I know the poster! But can't recall having seen it. Do love the original of the day the Earth Stood Still - Klatu, barada, niktu and all that - I think the Cylons were modelled on Gort .... you see, I am really a sci-fi nerd ;) was obsessed with the Twiglet zone - loved all those b/w 50's b-movie morality tales.

    Not seen Napoleon Dynamite either... ok, got some catching up to do!


    Comedies - ahhh... most of the ones produced these days are crap... although I confess my dirty secret is meet the Fockers - I love Robert de Niro as the grumpy bastard - I bet he's like that in real life - or gay ;)

  79. Thauma:

    Is that the one on spanish unemployment? I'll check it out.

  80. Whoops - just seen it... 'Perspectives on....

  81. La rit, I have been up for ages, under the people's panel... ah I have seen you have seen it. Oh well.

  82. Was there something wrong with the old template?

  83. Montana

    Wasnt anything wrong with the old template, no, i saw the 'template' function in the settings so thought would try a new one and then just change it back as and when required. Didnt think it would be an issue to be honest, but apologies if it is.

    I will try and put it back to the one it was on, i couldnt see it as an option this morning as they seem to have just changed their template section, but i'll dig about and try and put it back.

  84. Congrats to those who contributed.

    Really great stuff.

    And a great thread ;)

  85. Sorry Nap; thought I'd offended you.

  86. Jesus that Professor Plums is an arrogant, sneering shit...

    He just posted this...


    Had it escaped your notice that we are in the worst economic crisis in living memory?

    Can't say as I've noticed really. My mortgage is the lowest it's been for years and I got a fairly healthy pay rise in April.

    What a dickhead.

  87. Jay:

    If you'd run it by me, if anyone had ever voiced any difficulties with the old format, I'd have been open to a change. But, frankly, after being away because my father died, to come back and find the place completely changed -- well, it felt like a bit of a punch in the gut.

  88. I'm sorry Montana, really wouldn't have dreamt of changing it if i thought you would have minded in the slightest, bad call on my part and I should have emailed you. Sorry again.

    I agree no one had ever said anything about the template, i had never given it a second thought either, just saw the template thing and it looked like you could change the template back and forth with 2 clicks, so gave it a go.

    I did change it back to normal last night as few people didnt like it, then someone suggested leaving it for a couple of days to see what people think. So i changed it back.

    I didnt really think about it too much, mistake on my part.

  89. .."....because my father died,...." Montane - my much loved young lass - that ain't fair. In my part of Yorkshire it's called an abuse of the language. I love you wild woman that you are getting back on your feet is a joy for me

  90. There really ain't many fine lasses that I would post half a dozen punctuation marks about.................................save the class girls of last week end and of course the absolute love of my life..........my sometime.

  91. Afternoon all


    Have you developed a stutter?


    So sorry you're going through it right now but I'm certain Jay would never do anything to offend you deliberately - the template change is bad timing for you perhaps but no intent to wound on his part.


    it's my birthday and I just got some really good news from work. All of us middle managers are going to have to re-apply for our jobs! Those who 'fail' will be put into that third circle of hell they call the 're-deployment pool' - which is when you can kiss goodbye to your career plans.

    Not saying the civil service doesn't need pruning - it does, but there are less harsh ways of doing it. And i notice the top brass are not included in the cull - and there's plenty of dead wood up there as i'm sure you can imagine.

    Still off out with family for drinks and a good time tonight so will forget all about it for the weekend. Viva la revolution!

  92. Happy Birthday sheff enjoy yourself......!!!!

    Have a Cuba Libre on me!!!

  93. Sheff - I have babe it disturbs me equilibrium. I know, I like you. I just wish I had more time to convince you you liked me. You and Chin and PCC be fine doleful examples of,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,of great giirls. I am AWOL soon and will try to sort my disorder. I enjoyed being with you.

  94. .......and A42 and thuma too.

  95. Happy Birthday sheff--Enjoy your day.

    Montana--Hope you're okay. Take care.

    The Mundial is under way! First game done and dusted. No classic, but enjoyable just the same. Opening goal was a sweetly taken strike. Probably a just result from my view.

    The new format is OK with me, but as others have said, maybe could be subdued on the edges.

  96. Have a fine one Sheff xxxx

  97. SheffP:

    Have a very Happy birfday from me !

    Just remember, when the hangover's cleared to watch out for the duplicitous bastards behind your back who will do ANYTHING to avoid being the one in the 're-deployment pool'

    Stay 3 steps ahead.

    (PS re: Jay's 're-organisation' not done with malice aforethought in any shape or form, just twiddlin')

  98. Sheff

    Have a great birthday.With regard to the other
    matter i,m sure you know the score.From what i
    think i know about you this is just another
    potential battle.And as far as potential battles
    go this i,m sure is one you can win.

    Enjoy your evening :-)

  99. This comment has been removed by the author.

  100. La Rit

    watch out for the duplicitous bastards behind your back who will do ANYTHING to avoid being the one in the 're-deployment pool'

    The undermining has begun already which is one of the really horrible aspects of it. We're supposed to work as teams that co-operate and support and help each other out - this kind of thing sets people against each other and completely destroys that ethos. Its very bad for everyones morale.

  101. True about that scene, LaRit. Gets me almost as much as 'To Sir with Love'.

    Jessica Reed has flounced off with 'her' waddya ball firmly under her arm. Stand by for an invasion of non-footballing sheeple. Maybe.

  102. Sheff

    Hope you realize what i was trying to say.Came
    out a bit A over T.

  103. Happy birthday Sheff.
    As for Jessica Reed, what else did she expect?
    What with her and Matt and Georgina and the trigger happy mods,Wadya is now a farce.

  104. Happy birthday sheff and good luck with your job.

    My sister in law is in public service and is in the process of reapplying for her job for the third time in five years.

    It defies logic, rationality and sense. It creates fear, suspicion, insecurity and unnecessary competition with each other.

    And I think that is exactly what management at the top wants.....


    they've shut WADDYA for the weekend?? That is hilarious.

    They've now resorted to Pre-emptive modding.........ATOMBOY WE'VE GOT SOMETHING FOR YOUR BLOG!

  105. sheff

    Happy birthday!

    As others have pointed out, watch the backstabbers. In my last job, had the same problem - forced to reapply for own job & everyone else playing the smiling assassin while they shaft you. Meanwhile, top management got huge pay rises out of the "restructure" and several hundred ordinary workers were made redundant. We pointed out that a £35K+ gap between middle & higher management would create a succession problem, as folk would have to go elsewhere to get the experience to make that kind of leap. They took no notice at all, natch.


    Re: Tesco scenario & your reply last night, I never meant for you to feel that way, me old.


    Biggest of hugs for you & yours, my dear friend, and my most sincere condolences for your loss.

  106. Happy Birthday Sheff - enjoy yourself and forget worries for a while X

    so waddya is closed - to keep out the plebs, the trolls or just to let the mods watch the footie? Cif gets dafter by the day.

    Some good posts on the unemployment thread. Well done Naps et al.

    Prof Plums is either a windup merchant or a bastard - can't decide which.

  107. They shut waddya just when it was likely to get interesting. Kizbot posted some old shite about waddya just being a cosy little corner, not to be taken seriously, so why did trolls go on there and get so venomous about the regulars on there. The usual self-justifying crap we've come to expect from the self-appointed Queen of Bland, to which HenryTheThird responded (paraphrasing, from memory):

    "Nobody would have objected to waddya being a cosy little corner for Cif regulars to while away their working days.

    The problem was that waddya became disproportionately important in the eyes of the Cif staffers, who started commissioning the in-crowd to write stuff above the line, even though it should have been clear that the only reason waddya regulars posted their views regularly on waddya was because they would have been exposed as woefully out of their depth elsewhere on Cif."

    As I say, I'm paraphrasing. I'd have copied and pasted but the post in question has been deleted.

  108. For the weekend or forever? It'll probably be good for everyone involved to take an enforced break. Someone called Harrythethird made a fairly good point about cliquiness shortly before the curtain went down. Wish I'd copied it now but if he turns up maybe he can remember it.

    Still, they'll be dancing in the working men's clubs tonight...

  109. Whoa! That was it, Hank! Sounds almost verbatim.

  110. Public sector cuts for local govt include huge sums for education & housing, as well as funding for deprived areas.

    From the Housing budget, thay are cutting Supporting People funding - money provided for housing support for the most vulnerable or at risk, and for 'move on' support services to help people move to independent living. Refuges are dependent on Supporting People funds.

    Working Neighbourhoods Fund - money to help deprived areas with long-term sick / disabled, to enable them to work, but not Welfare to Work. This money has been hived off by some councils to balance their books, but many are using it properly.

    LEGI - I think this is for business investment for deprived areas.

    So the new shiny coalition is picking on the poorest and / or most fucking vulnerable. Quelle surprise. Bastards. Double bastards.

  111. Meanwhile, Martinineurope has set up a talkboard thread: http://politicstalk.guardian.co.uk/WebX/.776152fc/0?14@291.RBE4kITbkb6@

  112. Yep, Jessica has taken her bat and ball home. How pathetic is that?

  113. well wouldn't expect anything less from Ms reed...she gives the ol' liberal "call me Jess everyone" and then shafts 'em....that'll learn 'em.....!!

  114. I reccomend His Grace's piece over on UT2. Its a really good overview of how the Dutch do their politics, and why.

  115. This comment has been removed by the author.

  116. Some good posts on the unemployment thread.
    Tip hat to you guys and those who don,t have
    jobs i hope you soon get sorted.

    btw-Napoleon-when you,re on holiday you can
    give me your C.If i,m to be posting with a
    bunch of C,s i think it only right that i
    have one meself-albeit temporarily.

    @Montana-good to see you posting.Hope things
    aren,t too bad for you.Take care!And for what
    it,s worth i think if Jay had known changing
    the format would upset you he wouldn,t have done it.Hopefully it can be changed back if
    that,s what you want.

    @Chekhov/gandolfo-methinks Ms Reed don,t like
    me.Me screen has a habit of freezing over the
    few times she replys to me.I think the closing
    down of waddya for the weekend is hilarious.
    Not sure whether the decision was fuelled
    by the mods cos they couldn,t cope or bods
    more senior.

  117. martillo

    I went over to MartininEurope's talkboard and got signed in but couldn't work out how to post a comment which I wanted to do since he was talking about that old bastard Franco

  118. Scorpio - despite your problems with the residence in Notts folk said nice things about you. I was sorry not to be able to buy you a beer. I hope you make the next thrash I would be sad to be dead and not having met you.

  119. Sheesh they closed Waddya down for the weekend, how petulant is that, I hope Giyus spams every other thread for the whole weekend. ;)

    Probably a good thing in the long run, it doesn't take long to get out of the habit of checking on a thread and I suspect a few people won't be back.

  120. Sheff:

    Hope you're on your way out to a nice evening by now, but yep.... just happened to my sister, if you're honest and decent, get wise quick or get ready to get shafted.

    Ms Chin:

    It beggars belief about cutting what are essentially life-line services to the most vulnerable. Like you say - double, quadrulple bastards.
    Fuckers, stealing from the poor so the rich can buy bloody yachts and ponies...

  121. Paul
    she don't like me either...cos I pulled up Bru once....said that i was hateful...:0) since then any suggestion for articles has been dissed by her...she likes the peterBs of the world that fit into her nice white, (preferably) male, middle class liberal view...occasionally she takes on the commenters that fit in nicely with the identity politik of the Graun...to me she is very very transparent.....
    but I'd say it's a "bods more senior" thang...I'm looking at YOU Matt "lycra shorts" Seaton...

  122. Happy Birthday Sheff! And commiserations about the job-crap.

    Great work on the people's panel, all. As someone said "stories that are comic only in the retelling..."

    Am feeling very spoilt. am on sofa, watching footy, with english commentary courtesy of my bookmaker (don't ask), with wine and biscuits.

    my sole problem at present is that biscuits are just out of reach...

    ah well.

  123. Martillo:

    'm going to try and watch it again this weekend. The slow motion makes it even more heartbreaking :(


    Double hello sir.... ;);)

    Just a quick slag off - Kizbot is a bloody pain in the arse, but "Imogen -Pleeeeeze give me job on the Guardian-Black" is worse. Her comments btl on the Unemployment thread are infantile and as for being asked to 'contribute' well, pah, her 'contribution was pretty asinine - I'm sure someone will commission her soon (Jess/Matt) as she's got everything they need - nice white middle class girl, pwetty face (just look at my professional shot avatar) an ex-actress, miles of vacouous vaguely left wing b/s to spout and her contributions below the line read like one long CV.

  124. jen - i used to think of waddya as a sort of holding pen for giyus. now they've shut it, they may reap the whirlwind!

  125. I really hope Uruguay beat France.Love
    the country but always enjoy seeing them
    getting thrashed on the sportsfield.Sadly
    the French are the better side but you
    never know.

    Brilliant save by the Uruguayan goalkeeper
    about ten minutes ago.

  126. They've even managed to list it in 'latest posts' by mistake, despite being shut...

  127. Gandolfo:
    Forgot to mention the heads up re: Sicilian wine... is that because of the huge rubbish problem?

    What about Motta di Livenza?

    Have I been drinking me own body weight in dioxin winr???

  128. Paul - am watching at home so can safely celebrate any uruguayan excelence, heheheh.

  129. Very interesting day. 2 good things, first my piece, then this..

    After reading the thread I decided to go to the volunteer centre and look up things to volunteeer for, as it is quite clear that I won't get a job, and the uncertainty of waiting for hearing back from applications etc puts me on hold, so I wanted the certainty of volunteering.

    Turns out their is a Russian community resource centre nearby who were looking for volunteers in different things. So I went in and saw them. They said I could volunteer to do TEFL to Russian speakers and in exchange they would help me with my Russian. They also suggested that they might take me on as a paid teacher after a few months if I am good enough.

  130. nap

    Good day for you.

    There are lots of volunteer thingies out there - different talents and abilities needed.

    Well done.

  131. nice one, napoleon! sometimes things come out of the unlikeliest places (I found current little job after finding a notice on a pub noticeboard!)

  132. LaRit

    firstly your character analysis of two said posters is spot on.....

    Sicilian wine.....need I say more than mafia infiltration in many vineyards, in fact article today in Italy section of Grauwn

    I imagine the toxic waste might be a prob but the current rubbiish problem is as far as I know (cos they don't talk about it)is mainly in Palermo...they say it's worse than the Naples problem a year or so ago....

    Motta di Livenza: Treviso north-east Italy don't worry they transport all their toxic waste to the south......

    dioxins level for LaRit check: OK

  133. Nap

    there are loads of resources on the internet for teaching english...the BBC has good stuff...check whether it's TEFL or TESOL there is quite a difference....

  134. Gandolfo;

    "dioxins level for LaRit check: OK"

    La Rit breathes big sigh of relief... now what about me liver.... ;0)

  135. NapK:

    That's great news. Best of luck with the volunteering matey.

    If your Russian gets good enough, you can help me when I get around to singing Rachmaninov and Tchaikovsky!

  136. LaRit

    Nurse:liver check for MsLaRit

    Dr: has she STILL got one?

  137. Well, I'm havin a row with the missus. I thought this was the new moon, don't all this shit happen in 2 weeks at FULL moon?

    Tunes! People. Tunes!

  138. "Dr: has she STILL got one?"

    I'm beginning to wonder.....

  139. PS

    Glad you agree with my analysis re: Kizbot and Mizz Black...

    The very fact Mizz Black completely refused to engage with me/ignored me on the unemployment thread spoke volumes..... I clocked her as a public school wannabe about 6 months ago - today, it just became even more blatant.

    Me, I didn't start writing on CiF as a contrived 'career' move, I just started because I've got a big gob, alot to say and am basically a frustrated human being!

  140. Philippa:

    sometimes things come out of the unlikeliest places

    Too true. My partner of the past seventeen years is the only woman i've ever picked up in a bar.

  141. Turminder:

    That's mental.... I had an explosion this afternoon in an effort to get my ladry arse in housewerk mode....

    Shake Your Body (Down to the Ground) - the Jacksons

    Dillinger - Cokane my Brain

    The Fall - the North will Rise again (from Grotesque)

    A little bit of LL Cool J

    Max 404 - The Last Days of House Music (Honey)


    Beng, Beng Beng, Ashley Beedle remix of Femi Kuti's fantastic toon....

    amongst some other class tracks!

  142. ooh - nap - Guardian Weekly also does a TEFL section every two weeks or so which teachy-type mate says are pretty good. think they must be on the website somewhere...

    medve - awwwwwwww.....

  143. and this....


    Roy Harper - 1977 - unsurpassable ;0)

    A good fight-buster

    and yet it's only yesterday, dreaming of tomorrow

  144. Of course, the fab Animal on drums - GInger Baker...

    Saw him chuck a brick at Roy Harper when he was on the pyramid stage at Glastonbury in about 1982.... they'd errm... fallen out!

  145. OK, hows this for sneaky.

    am listening to audio commentary through Bet 365, which has background crowd noise, sounds pretty 'crowdy'.

    however, having just inadvertently leant on the tv mute button, and heard the actual crowd at the game...

    clearly not the same thing. how sad is that?

  146. Got the Uruguay France match on R5. Sounds like they got some baddass mosquitos down there.

  147. @deano - yeh, would be good at some stage.

    @LaRit - hi.

    @martillo and chekhov - fair play to Jess for taking the ball home with her. The waddya thread is a fucking joke, and has been for a year or more. It's somewhere for kiz and bru and all the hangers on to bitch and gossip and ultimately say nothing much at all. MavisCoulter and MelissaDarley have seen through all the crap there, and their comments got deleted as a result.

    It's interesting to note, as HenryTheThird said, that the proliferation of posters with "C"s against their names on Cif over the last year or so have almost exclusively come from the ranks of the luvvies who kiss each others' arses on waddya.

    There are a lot of interesting and informed posters on Cif, posting on domestic politics, finance, foreign affairs etc. A vanishingly small number of them get commissioned to write ATL though, because they're not in the waddya gang, and the editorial staff at Cif are too lazy to read those threads or to talent-spot beyond the tea and jaffa cake crowd of time-wasting idiots on waddya.

    Very few of those who have got commissioned by Cif to go above the line in the last year have anything of interest to say, and very few of them post regularly elsewhere on Cif because they would be shot down in flames by those far more informed than they are.

  148. Ah, Ginger Baker.

    Another one of those 60s survivors who technically just shouldn't be alive...

    He's done some fascinating documentaries, actually.

    About drumming, obviously.

    Somewhere in the Masai Mara there's a tribe that can play 'Toad'...

  149. La Rit
    Get thos links up ffs!

    "Saw him chuck a brick at Roy Harper when he was on the pyramid stage at Glastonbury in about 1982.... they'd errm... fallen out!"

    Ha ha. Ginger was always completely, certifiably bonkers.

    Going over UT2 now to see what's what.

  150. LaRit - given the amount of complaining about the trumpets, it may not actually be that bad...

  151. Fuck me that was hard work. Day was once that I could drink 5 bottles of Chile and walk. No longer my friends I really had to concentrate to get one foot in front of the other. I am ageing and starting to feel it. Good news young Nap

  152. Is it trumpets Philippa, not sure how they manage to keep going through the whole match but I am impressed.

    You don't notice it after a while.

  153. "And he's been on the peripheral edges of this game, to be honest..."

    Am suffering. Do I dare risk the French commentary?

  154. And btw, because I'm nothing if not controversial, present company is not excepted. I have to say that PhilippaB writes beautifully. You're a great stylist, PB, but the content is a bit lacking.

    And NapK, well, I defended you on here the other week because you're about the same age as my son, and I felt protective towards you. You're young and you're passionate, as indeed you should be. But you're not yet a coherent thinker, much less a persuasive writer.

  155. Hank - am very aware that last piece bombed horribly, which, with hindsight was exactly it deserved - should have stuck to the music side of things without trying to lever in a political analogy, particular as I'm so longwinded that I would have needed five times the wordcount to approach a decent point. But there you go, live and learn, at the end of the day, etc etc.

    (apols - football commentary seems to be catching)

    speaking of which, audio is now 10 seconds behind the tv. buggeration. will have to risk the french commentary...

  156. ".... But you're not yet a coherent thinker, much less a persuasive writer....."................................................. A fine and generous sentence Hank. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,something wrong with my machine today I can't get it to format me words

  157. This is classic Uruguay.Within sniffing
    distanceof a possible victory and they
    'unravel'.Down to ten men and 9 mins to go.

    Stupid fuckwit!

  158. Love Roy Harper! Have seen him more than 20 times, he oggled my girlfriend, the old letch!

    Yeah LaRit, Linkys... Good tunes tho..

    I thought you were Mavis Hank. I know you hate me as a spam Luvvie. Truth is I'm honoured. X

  159. PB - I didn't read the "last piece". I'm referring to those posts I've seen from you either here or on wadya.

    The fact is that you got invited above the line because you were seen as safe. You were/are a Waddya fixture. Like most on waddya, you've got an opinion on most things but you don't really know much about anything.

    No offence, genuinely, but it's true.

    And let's be honest, if either you or anyone else in the Waddya gang go above the line, the thread is heavily moderated, and most of the comments BTL extend no further than "yeh, great blog, PB/EvaWilt/winthorpe - we're not going to pick your post apart like we would if it was as shite as this but written by someone who's not one of our waddya mates".

  160. @turminder - I'm not Mavis. I've got a good idea who Mavis might be.

    You shouldn't kid yourself on, turminder, that I'm the only person pissed off with the fucking Waddya playpen.

  161. Well Hank, Where's your great plan, your investigative revelation, your plan for a better tomorrow? Oh thats it it must be at the bottom of the next glass, when you'll get nasty and personal about random strangers on the internet. Doctoring your porn with a biro, or Photoshop yet? C'mon it is friday!

  162. Evening Hank/Turminder

    @philippa-am happy with that draw although the
    French weren,t playing much above third gear.
    Kudos to the ref though.He was bloody good.
    Will celebrate Uruguays 'point' the only way
    possible-with a glass of French wine.

  163. My great plan, turminder, is just doing the right thing day to day, being true to myself, doing a decent job, not being a hypocrite.

    I'm easy with the person I am. All things considered, I'm fairly comfortable in my own skin.

    I can live with myself.

  164. Ah - but thing is I do see Waddya as a bit of a chatroom - so I make suggestions, and have a bit of a chat, but don't take it too seriously - the threads I post on are where I try to marshal thoughts more, and make a point. I may have been doing that less, recently, but that's due to a number of factors.

    And here - always interesting to read the more 'debate' posts, but ... don't often have the energy to get involved. Just like to take it all in, have some contact with people.

    I do think there is some reason for different treatment for BTL-ers going ATL, as this isn't a job - but I thnk that comes more from the other posters than the mods. Certainly if the article is shit (my last, peterbracken's 'torture will save the world' thing) then it gets it...

    Anyway - football over. France is sad.

  165. turm - my dear friend, read more slowly.Hank is a sometime cunt but a fine wordsmith to boot.

  166. Paul - from the sighing from the French commentators, I think I can predict what the headlines will be tomorrow.

    Interestingly, first post-match interview is with the secretary of state for sport. a slightly different approach from sticking a microphone in the face of a sweating, shirtless and knackered defender.

  167. They probably deserve a bit of a kicking in the headlines Philippa, they seemed half asleep until the last 10 and they didn't put that much effort in then.

  168. Oh dear - turned tv on for last 5 minutes of France game - I'm already bored.

    I won't mention it again - enjoy the World Cup footie fans. May your favourite team win


  169. philippa

    I don,t pretend to know everything there is to
    know about all the teams playing this year.But
    my lack of knowledge about the Yanks is pitiful.
    Am assuming England will walk it but who knows.

  170. Waddya was developed into its current format shortly after UT rocked up - as a holding tank for potentially unruly account holders, a place where moderators could go and gaze at the wild and uneven outside world, but without having to delete comments on mind-numbed reflex, because they also knew everyone would there act out of aspiration rather than egalitarian exchange of ideas; they would therefore moderate themselves and yet make CiF appear cooler

    The fucking amateurs.

    Hope this helps.

  171. Lucky you Hank, lucky you. Guess what I'm sayin is, other than saying this isn't as good as it used to be & none of you kids know shit, what do you do?

    I'll take Deannos recs, he's someone I respect. Evenin Paul, et al. No Tunes Guys? Tunes!!

  172. Paul - hmmmmmm, am a little worried that bits might start dropping off our boys when they're shoo-ed onto the pitch. but we have to beat the USA. really.

    ho hum.

  173. "..but I do see Waddya as a bit of a chatroom..."

    I do too. But not in a good way. And that's clearly where we disagree.

    I see Cif as a place for bored middle class professionals to get together to pontificate about how the world would be a much better place if only the poor worked a little bit harder, and for less money.

    It fucking annoys me beyond endurance that kizbot and bru get indulged on there, the pair of them posting arrant nonsense on there all day, while Athens and Brussels burns in the background, and neither them or fellow posters question whether middle class jobs could be cut.

    Let's cull the jobs of middle class wasters like kizbot and brussels if efficiency savings need to be made.

    Stick that up as an idea on waddya and see where that gets you.

  174. people do, and get shitloads of recommends. and yet people keep chatting. maybe not everything's part of the struggle, and we just need to chat sometimes.

    someone on the peple's panel thread pointed out that there wasn't a lot of 'pontifying' going on - maybe that's because that was a thread started by real-life experiences with no party-political or thinktank axe to grind. we recognise real people when they're writing - and we recognise paid shills. thing is, of all those btl, there are lots of different types of people. some funny, some interesting, some annoying, some thought-provoking.

    i like reading waddya. it's like sitting in a railway cafe for a really long time and overhearing lots of disparate conversations as the world goes by.

    not world-changing, perhaps, but while it drives you to distraction, funnily enough, it helps to keep me level. there's always something on. if you're lonely, that can be quite comforting.

    anyway. why not stop reading it if it annoys you that much? not meant snarky, just - why let it get to you?

  175. This comment has been removed by the author.

  176. Your kind turm - recall my young friend it's all in the sentence

    and here is one for you........................it was all in the expansion of the meaning.................it was someday like it was spat out before me.

    My sentence, hereafter for evermore your property.

    Regards. deano30

  177. You'll know me better as backtothepoint or SpikeParis. My first time, so be gentle. No nailing me to things or making me eat fox offal.

    I'm really pissed off about whaddya. I pointed out to Jessica that the one major troll from last night would be jumping for joy at having closed down a thread and I think she might have been listening, but then Giyus and M&M suddenly appeared, the three of them in the space of four posts. Ah well.

  178. welcome Spike_ if your as class as Milligan your welcome here./

  179. Hello & welcome, Spike / bttp.

    I'd noticed Giyus on the unemployed thread, which I've just been reading.

    Hi hank. Missed you last weekend. I tell you, man, there was no soul music (sorry BW).

  180. Eh bttp

    I 'know' you.Welcome.

  181. Spike
    Haven't read much of that cif shite for a while, but you're more than welcome here buddy.

  182. 'ello Spike

    How goes it ?

  183. bttp

    What do you prefer to be called?

  184. @HankScorpio

    I think you've missed the point of whaddya. There are plenty of threads for serious discussion, but most of the time, whaddya's simply a chatroom.

    There are some seriously funny and interesting people on there and I personally just enjoy hanging out sometimes and trying to make people laugh or think. It's a way of passing the time. A no-man's-land where it's Christmas every day and you can play football between the trenches (except I draw the line at peterbracken or Jubilation 1 and always carry a concealed weapon).