01 June 2010



  1. Mmm... on this day last year, we talked about...

    The smoking ban, D day, and Miley Cyrus.

    Lazy, i know...

  2. morning.

    there's more of last night's thread now than last night (i mean, in amongst the stuff that was there last night)?


    could murder a jaffa cake.

  3. Nice biscuits - cakes - biscuits - oh, bugger it. Morning.

    Philippa, did I see that you start work today? If so - bonne chance

  4. Ye olde Jamiaca Inn Chronicle
    1st June Year of our Lord 1610

    The Government of Cut-throat Island yesterday issued a strong denial that the apprehension of Ottoman vessels and the execution of crew in the medius terra sea amounted to an act of piracy. Standing on a wooden peg leg with a parrot on his shoulder squawking ”Justified action! Justified action!, Cut-throat Island Government spokesman ‘Long John’ Regev said:

    ”Aaaarrrrgggghhhh! Ottoman and Moslem scurvy dogs have for years been trying to land aid on the Cut-throat Island leper colony in direct contravention of Cut-throat Island law. The leper colony founded by the state of Cut-throat Island already enjoys one of the highest standards of living in the olde world with bully beef and hogsheads of wines and spirits available to all. Everyone who disagrees is nothing but a diseased bilge-rat. ha-haaarggh!”

    Taking a swig from a bottle of the finest Caribbean rum and gobbing into a spittoon he continued:

    ”As soon as we knew the Ottoman privateers were going to land aid, doubloons, grog and Nelson’s folly on to the leper colony, a fleet of our bravest salts hoisted the Jolly Roger and sailed to intercept them. After running a shot across their bows, we received no reply from the Ottoman varlets so we landed the dogs boats, and made 10 of ‘em walk the plank to a watery meeting in Davy Jones locker Aaaaaaaaargh!”

    The Prime Minister of Cut-throat Island, Captain Hook can afford to ignore international condemnation as he has since received staunch support from the American Main.

    Refusing to answer any further questions, Long John Regev walked off singing the Cut-throat island National Anthem:

    Avast belay, yo ho, heave to, A-pirating we go And if we're parted by a shot
    We're sure to meet below!" Yo ho, yo ho, the pirate life, The flag o’ the star o’David
    A merry hour, a hempen rope, And hey for Golda Meir."

  5. Hi Guys--Philippa you seem to be more single minded/lucent today. What happened over night? Agree that some strange shit going down on the web.

    A poster from Sweden showing on the counter. Is that you AB? Come on out, you're not fooling anybody.

    All this talk, slander about jaffa cakes. Murder? How dare you.

  6. JayReilly--Hi, we've not really conversed, though I read you fairly often. Like your posts, ( Fucking Hank will kill me )generally, not always. ( No one gets 100% in my classroom. ) Thanks for filling Montana's boots. And not with cowpats.

  7. Later, folks, off to bed. Night.

  8. HI Boudican

    I think we discussed the pompous disposition of Schnauzers, which is as good a starting point as any in my book. Thaumaturgle usually fills in but, frankly, she's gone off the rails lately, a loose canon, so i've stepped in (though failed to upkeep the tradition of giving historic events for the day).

  9. 0193 - The Roman Emperor, Marcus Didius, was murdered in his palace.

    1533 - Anne Boleyn, Henry VIII’s new queen, was crowned.

    1774 - The British government ordered the Port of Boston closed.

    1915 - Germany conducted the first zeppelin air raid over England.

    1938 - Superman, the world's first super hero, appeared in the first issue of Action Comics.

    1944 - Siesta was abolished by the government of Mexico.

    1954 - In the Peanuts comic strip, Linus' security blanket made its debut.

    1970 - Zimbabwe came into existence. It was formerly known as Rhodesia.

    1977 - The Soviet Union formally charged Jewish human rights activist Anatoly Shcharansky with treason. He was imprisoned until 1986.

    1980 - Cable News Network (CNN) made its debut as the first all-news station.

    1998 - A $124 million suit was brought against Goodyear Tire & Rubber that alleged discrimination towards black workers.

    2008 - The Phoenix Mars Lander became the first NASA spacecraft to scoop Martian soil.

  10. Good work Turminder, teamwork!

  11. I liked 'Last year we mostly talked about..' Good idea Mr R!

    Some historical irony from 1774 & 1977

  12. Morning all,

    1970 - Zimbabwe came into existence. It was formerly known as Rhodesia.

    hmm.. i think that was 1980. Lancaster House agreement and all that.

    When i was at university in the late seventies rumour had it that the weed sold locally supported zanu/zapu (which were still allies then).

  13. Well spotted Medve, I just cut & pasted, lazy drone...

  14. ta, shaz, have managed to build a ouple of thingies with the system so am feeling much more confident. i get to talk to the techies today, so they hopefully can help me take more in. not looking forward to lugging laptop over there, though - it's been in situ so long i think it's put down roots...

  15. Morning everyone

    Found the quote below on a blog that also has an interesting take on media coverage of I/P This is the article I'm sick of reading

    Susan Sontag’s principal gifts to our civilization were not that easily packaged, but were a brilliant, non-stop commentary on contemporary art practices and their effects on our emotions. She did get off one sound bite in an interview on television, which was to me a stunning sermon in and of itself. She was asked what she had learned from the Holocaust, and she said that 10 percent of any population is cruel, no matter what, and that 10 percent is merciful, no matter what, and that the remaining 80 percent could be moved in either direction.
    -Kurt Vonnegut

  16. jay

    are you trying to wind up Hank with those jaffa cakes?

  17. Sheff: I think those are biscuits. I'll get me coat.

  18. No in seriousness i just couldnt be bothered to think of a picture, jaffa cakes seemed an easy solution, they've had a few mentions lately.

  19. Ooh Jay how could you? I wake up on day two of a two day hangover and what do I see? Jaffa cakes - now I actually despise Jaffa cakes but just looking at the chocolate bit has set off deep cravings and i have none in.

    Nice to see the US going along with world opinion for once and really giving Israel a telling off - not. Ho hum.

  20. Morning all

    @Jay-you do realize you,re cruisin' for a cyber
    bruisin' from a certain Mr Scorpio when he sees them there jaffa cakes.As if there ain,t enough flashpoints in the world without yet another one on UT.:-)

  21. I thought I was the only one who took two days to get over a night out PCC. ;)

    Guess it means we really are getting old.

    So are Jaffa cakes biscuits or what? (I missed the infamous Cif article about it).

  22. Have emailed Montana to see if she's ok - it's not like her to be absent for so long without explanation.

  23. Off the rails, Jay? Fucking loose cannon? Watch your mouth, southern boy. ;-)

    Am cranky anyway as I've put my back out. It could at least be sunny so I can sit and wince outside, but no, it's raining.

  24. Come off it. The "jaffa" reference nothing but a naked pledge of support to Tel Aviv, you imperialist, murdering bastard/s.

  25. Turgle's charging in again, as i feared, recklessly throwing abuse and racial slurs around...

    "So are Jaffa cakes biscuits or what? (I missed the infamous Cif article about it)."

    Jenn - i think its best this is left unanswered. But if you use the CIF search box and search for Jaffa you can see the threads its discussed on. But we must keep the UT a jaffa free zone.

    Not because of Hank, but because i cant stand them - their sickly orangey rankness has always made me feel ill.

    Has there been any other response than Hague's mumbling yesterday, from the UK i mean? It was only a few months ago Israel sent its assassins off with British passports to murder in a foreign country.

    If this is turns out as business as usual, really what would Israel have to do before the UK/US/EU take action?

  26. "The "jaffa" reference nothing but a naked pledge of support to Tel Aviv, you imperialist, murdering bastard/s."

    Mad me chuckle.

  27. I'm sorry to keep going on about this but in case no one has seen it.

    Michael Gove has no problem with businesses making profits from running schools

    We are truly reaching the end game.

  28. "Michael Gove has no problem with businesses making profits from running schools"

    Of course he wouldnt, thats the whole point of it. The only surprising thing is that its taken him this long to admit it.

    Royal Mail is soon to go, too. No matter how many obscenely expensive, corrupt and exploitative privatisations we have the juggernaut just keeps rolling on. To listen to this shower of petty thieves and amoral parasites, you'd think rail and utility privatisations had never happened.

    I'd have liked to have seen Larry Elliott address this in his Fantasy Island book - the farcical charade of continuing to privatise despite widespread and irrefutable evidence of so much costly failure.

  29. Why wasn't that article open for comment or the IDS one?

    The Guardian almost seems to be protecting the government, or am I imagining things?

  30. Latest from the School Gove-enor...

    Bsc. Burger Flipping and Milkshake technology; Mc Donald Uni (formerly Edin. Napier)

    MBA Call centre control and persuasuion techniques (staff) MORI college of 'what do you want the answer to be..?'

    Phd Gin & Tonic studies (specialism 'Serving our new chinese Masters' Tanquery Academy, Loughborugh)

  31. Your Grace

    I can't utter the words Michael Gove without wanting to throw up. And yes, it does feel like the endgame is approaching fast.

    I've just posted up an ironic little BP advert from the 90's on the photo page. Laughs hollowly...

  32. I work for a local council, we have had a notification that the council is to use TNT rather than RM, and burried in the small print is this gem..

    'The mail collected and sorted by TNT Post is still delivered by Royal Mail' Sick, sick, sick...

  33. "The mail collected and sorted by TNT Post is still delivered by Royal Mail'"

    Absolute disgrace. It used to be similar in telecoms, fixed line telephony and data, BT did the hard work while private firms cherry picked the profits.

    But crucially, data developed that allowed other networks to do the legwork themselves, with BT only putting in the 'last mile' of copper, a complete reversal of the postal situation we have now.

    Thats the only privatisation i can think of that has delivered substantial benefits to the public, and it has done that purely and simply through *genuine* competition - it is the equivalent of having 5 train lines between every stop and people picking their line and provider for each journey.

    That will never work with Mail.

  34. Sheff - Montana posted in the early hours of 1 June and 31st May (on the USA road trip Brooker piece) so at least she was alive and compis as recently as 8hrs ago.

    I'm curious. Given her recent comments here, ( responding to me, but for all to read) perhaps she is pleased to see that in reality UT can be/is a collective and she is not the Queen of the blog.

    Thankfully others have the means to keep UT afloat during her rare resting/holiday/problem times.

    Happen we should all remind her that she is perfectly entitled to tell anyone she likes to *!^+""* and that means no more, nor less, than any other poster on UT. (ie posting here on UT she carries no extra weight or privilege in her punches or caresses). That always was her wish, so I don't think I'm talking altogether out of my arse nor am I putting words in her mouth.

    If I read her last post here correctly she was beginning to feel constrained/frustrated by a possible ambiguity that arises if UT becomes identified as solely Montana's blog.

    She plainly doesn't want anyone to feel extra toasted cos she thinks/says your a cunt, nor especially admired cos she agreed with you on occasion. Seems fair enough to me.

    I imagine therefore that she will be pleased to see others taking on the responsibility of opening the shop.

    (As ever the lady will speak for herself....................if you see her write deano - billp I will be doing the Mexican wave ((Thanks for Mex info Leni)) when my bench time is up)

    Of course the romantic in me likes to think that some suitable unmarried and attractive chap (pref with UK passport) has blown into Cowpat Junction. Who knows, as we write perhaps she is being wined dined and......seduced senseless.

    {Ah dear Montana speculation will always fill the corners of an idle mind - I do of course join with everybody else in hoping that you are well, without intolerable problems, and will be back here soon ...xxx.}

    For the record my understanding is:

    Scherf/thauma/Jay/Dott/martillo all have a key to open the door when Montana is not available.

    Perhaps anybody else with a key would be kind enough to identify themselves???

  35. Your Grace
    "Michael Gove has no problem with businesses making profits from running schools"


    OK, VAT-wonk hat on again - if that's the case then the academy would not be a charity. if that's the case then VAT on build costs is unavoidable. if that's the case, then the government will, what, pay more in capital funding to cover it?

    which they refuse to do for the charities...

    so - be not-for-profit and try to do your community duty - fuck off. find the money yourself.

    want to make a quick buck? here, help yourselves...

    shitehawks, really. shitehawks.

    (jen - i have already sounded off on the vat thing on the leader they put up a few days ago. i would dearly love to have the opportunity to have at that article...)

  36. right, signing off to go be employed or something.


  37. Deano

    Good post. I think Montana will feel constrained if people interpret her disagreement or anger as a sign they should leave the blog, she cant debate openly or enjoy the site in those conditions i dont think.

    So lets try and disagree with her the way we do with each other, disagreement is disagreement - not a reason to leave the blog.

    I'd leave if requested by the majority, but not Montana alone. We've all put a lot of work into this place (though Montana by far the most), so no one has to leave because they disagree with one person in particular.

  38. Actually I'm wrong - Montana's comment was not addressed to me deano it was an open comment addressed to all who read at UT viz:


    3rd: (And then I'm going to drop this)

    There's one other thing that has been bothering me about the recent arguments with NapK and BB. In both instances (and in others in the past), they said that they would leave since I was disagreeing with them.

    Why? Why should it be any different for me to disagree with someone here than anyone else? Hank can be vile to all and sundry and no one ever says, "I'm going to leave, then." Scherf can state some pretty strong opposition to people and opinions and no one ever threatens to leave. So why do people feel the need to withdraw from the place just because I've expressed disagreement with them?

    To issue such a declaration places me in the position of being unable to voice opposition to anyone, ever.

    As I have said before, I never wanted people to think of this as "Montana's blog". That's precisely why I've tried to get other people involved in running/maintaining things, why anyone who wants will be given author permission on UT2 -- I don't want to be Queen of the Blog.

    BB, especially, has been around long enough to know that I express my opinions rather bluntly, so it was doubly bewildering that, after all this time, she would threaten to leave because I'd expressed irritation with the tone she took in responding to a comment I'd made.


    I don't want to get her wrong by extracting out of context so the full reference is at

    29 May, 2010 16:43

  39. Montana - perhaps you should change the header to something like....

    .. The Untrusted.............."this is a collective" ....things could/do get messy.....

    just a thought.

  40. Nap - good to see you back.

  41. navro

    "..parallaxview Deano? Or something like that..."

    Spot on navro - herm was the poster from Australia that I had in mind. Name came to me when I woke up.

  42. "...... Hank can be vile to all and sundry and no one ever says, "I'm going to leave, then." Scherf can state some pretty strong opposition to people......"

    Take more than a pair of, sometime erudite, cunts like them to ride me out of town.

  43. OED:


    " A. adj.

    1. Of persons and their faculties: a. Trained, well-instructed (obs. or arch.); b. Learned, scholarly. (Now somewhat rare exc. in sarcastic use.)

    1432-50 tr. Higden (Rolls) I. 231 A man callede Nanus, erudite in the arte of nigromancy................................"

    Nigromancy anyone???

    OED is a lot better than kizbot/bitehand think...

  44. I believe I have a key - what I don't have (and can't find!) is the means of using it!

    As my somewhat eratic sleep patterns mean I can sometimes be up very early and could easily start some blogs!

    If only someone could tell me how!

  45. This comment has been removed by the author.

  46. Top of screen, Anne, "New Post" - then you put text in, click on the icon for "add image" if you want pic, then Publish. Very easy to use.

  47. Anne - somewhere on the menu on the top you should find a 'New Post' pick. You'll have to sign in first. (Btw, looking forward to meeting you on Saturday!)

    Have been spending a while catching up on the weekend's threads. Loadsa interesting stuff: schools, Israelis and the breeding question.

  48. "(....Now somewhat rare exc. in sarcastic use.)...

    Rare, but not altogether obsolete/extinct then.....

    It really is hard to get the tone/feel of the posts and posters here chekhov but we all keep trying. (some smart arse out there is probably writing a novel or radio play based on the UT soap.......you perhaps??)

    I still think Montana may be mistaken about BB. I think BB started out with a carless construction, but when later she saw it as such she did just enough to avoid a fully justified charge of patronising cow.

    Didn't mean that she shouldn't have few pellets fired at her arse though.(Montana might say post hoc dont count..).......

    I'll ask again ......is PCC joining us on the 5th?... he said idly talking to himself for the third or was it fourth occasion

    ........God I need that time-out on the bench which I get after the meeting on the 5th.

  49. When I logged onto the Guardian this morning and saw the Steve Bell cartoon of the Isreali flag with the skull and crossbones (the visual equivalent of Duke's riposte)I thought- 'I wonder how long before Cifwatch jumps on this'. I'm disappointed that they took over 5 hours.

    There will always be this problem. Any use of the Israeli flag for anyhing critical can easily be made into charges of sntisemitism becuase the flag of Israel is based on a religious symbol.

    'Nazi analogy', 'Aushwitz' etc-- quite clearly they were not big on pirates at school

  50. Anne

    If only someone could tell me how!

    happy to show you how when I see you.

  51. Sheff - does that make you a key holder or just someone who knows how blogs work??

  52. Hey All,

    Hope Montana's OK, I think she/deano are right about her carrying no more weight than the rest of us as she doesn't want this to be her blog.

    So, how's about first one to notice we're past midnight/6am whatever GMT puts up a new post? If you regularly find yourself being that person and you don't have a key then ask..

    Either do the conscientious research bit or I'm liking Jay's idea of "what we talked about last year" (also birthdays anniversaries etc. can be stolen from there...).

    I've put up one or two threads in the past and I'm happy to again if necessary.

  53. ask for a key, obviously...

  54. I know how blogs work Deano - but no key.

  55. Sheff,

    I've got a key but don't know (very much about) how blogs work! I'm guessing that as I can't delete other people's stuff etc. I don't have the power to grant anyone keys?

  56. Thanks people i thought New Post mwant new comment DOH!

  57. I think only Montana can give keys, but not sure.

  58. Deano

    Seems that a whole extended family of swifts have moved in nearby. Being quite high up I get terrific views of them out for their afternoon feeding sessions - so fast and elegant.

  59. Question to key holders

    Does key ownership bring deletion rights??

    FWIW - own view is that deletions are best avoided and often leave confusing gaps for other readers. Shits tend to pour shite into gaps if they can.

    I know that Scherf has exercised deletion authority on others in the past (he is honest to have said so when he has)- I think he was misguided, imho, albeit that he sometimes did it for decent and kind reasons. I don't know if that facility is available t all key holders?

    I trust the integrity of all the thus far identified key holders, but the issue needs to be addressed. Any and all deletions are in my view best accompanied by an extraneous note of explanation..............

    else we play into the hands of the ill-informed ignorant critics of UT who like our friends bitey/kizbot sometimes seek to maintain a fiction that the UT site is subject to moderation.

    We can all 'see' self deletions for 'double posting' or 'reconsidered my point' so there is no real problem there.

    Perhaps there is no way that we can ever be totally assured.

    If I've seen/read something here that contradicts those who shout 'hypocrisy' down at UT I always try to bear witness to the contrary.

    Second question for UT key holders - if there has been a deletion can you as a key holder see that it happened??

  60. If self admitted novice Dott is right about herm not being able to delete it would suggest that there may be two kinds of key???

  61. Deano,

    I have a key (can put up a new post) but can't delete anything, or see that something's been deleted. That is, any more than you can anyway: my understanding is that if someone deletes their own post it leaves a marker and if someone with full admin rights deletes a post it leaves a marker unless they then delete that too. Perhaps most people should have the sort of key I do, with a few people having a master key, and maybe those people shouldn't delete the "this post was deleted" markers....

  62. and deano, I definitely can't delete, I've been told so by someone (forget who) who knows far more than me!

    (but obviously no offence taken or anything)

  63. For the avoidance of doubt I know that Scherf can delete 'cos I saw him do it when the vacuous Bru was being a vile, vicious and spiteful cow in her attack on Montana several months ago.

    He removed the offensive Bru post, at others prompting, because he/they didn't want to see Montana unnecessarily hurt by malice when she later awoke and joined us.

    Since I had copied the offensive post in question (just in case) I reposted/pasted it back for posterity. I did so with the offer that I would remove it if there was a considered sensitive response from Bru - there never was.

    I didn't repost it 'cos I wanted Mont hurt I did it because I wanted the 'unmoderated' integrity of UT maintained. I'm posting this now because questions might arise whilst I'm on the bench and more recent UT's might become confused.

    Sheff Swifts? - lucky you. 5th asking - is PCC joining us the 5th or don't you know?

  64. Hey - we just passed the 40,000 visitors!! and the counter has only been up since .. ....................(fairly recently - anybody note the date when we satrted?/)

  65. No probs Deano


    Maybe we should change "things could get messy" to "the inmates are running the asylum" ;-)

  66. This comment has been removed by the author.

  67. "...So, how's about first one to notice we're past midnight/6am whatever GMT puts up a new post?..."

    Sound thinking Dott - if that follows I'd suggest the following 6am'ish 'cos sometimes our night friends are at it till dawnish..

  68. I think he was misguided, imho, albeit that he sometimes did it for decent and kind reasons.

    deano, you really are a sanctimonious, patronising prick. FYI - I have only ever deleted a handful of posts here in well over a year. They were all from bitey when he was viciously attacking BB and montana. I can't recall any others except one from brussels (which you then reinstated) and one from hank (when he revealed personal information about me which he had received in confidence). People delete their own posts here all the time, including you (frequently). You seem to want all the entertainment that this site can provide, while contributing very little apart from banalities and repeated declarations of love and admiration and adoration and respect etc etc for any and all female posters. You take no concrete responsibility at all, but constantly tell others how to behave, as if your repetitive, incoherent ramblings represent some kind of 'wisdom'. Get your fucking head out of your arse, and try posting occasionally when you're sober.

    You're a fucking joke, mate, and about as authentic and convincing as a nine-bob note. Unmoderated integrity? Words fail me.

  69. *I think when I come back from my bench rest I might start reposting as inmateD30 - I baggsy and reserve it.

  70. "...I have only ever deleted a handful of posts here in well over a year. They were all from bitey when he was viciously attacking BB and montana. I can't recall any others except one from brussels (which you then reinstated) and one from hank (when he revealed personal information about me which he had received in confidence).."

    I think the above is perfectly true and I would not wish to suggest anything to the contrary and nor do I.

    I do not have a key and never have had one. I was not part of the original grouping who took the initiative to start UT - I'm nonetheless glad they did.

    It's a matter of record that I have posted my 'respect and admiration' for both Hank and Scherf, and I do so again. I'm not going to overdo it though 'cos I'm not soft in the fucking head.

  71. that deserved a recommend turm so I gave you one.

  72. "......I know that Scherf has exercised deletion authority on others in the past (he is honest to have said so when he has)- I think he was misguided, imho, albeit that he sometimes did it for decent and kind reasons. I don't know if that facility is available t all key holders?

    I trust the integrity of all the thus far identified key holders, ......

    I really do need that bench rest....patronising prick that I am.

  73. Here's one for Scherf - it was ever thus...

    It was always a characteristic of the left's "ok coral" that a lot of the gunslingers were wandering around with the hand on the holster always ready to shoot before................. listening or reading the other guy.

    Twenty+ years in endless meetings and encounters in the labour movement taught me that.

    It also taught me never to put my head in my arse while gun law rules. One eyed guys like me need to keep it wide open whilst friends with itchy fingers stalk the place.

    Regards sometime baked.

  74. Jay - man of good taste indeed - Jaffas are vile things. Absolutely vile.

    Jen - I used to be pissed on a regular basis and could recover swiftly - now I hardly drink and the other night was a big one. First time out in ages and I had nearly a bottle of wine. Felt rough as all day yesterday and feel crap today too. But the good news is my mate has come round and she brought me a bar of Diary Milk so all is right in my world (well its not but the Diary milk helps move it along in the right direction.)

    Deano - I think will be there on the 5th. Thought I was free but have a friend coming up to stay (we'd changed the dates and I hadn't changed them on my calendar and only just realised today when got excited text about the weekend) - but she might not be arriving till later. Would have to see what time etc. We would be in town anyway Saturday if she is going to be coming afternoon time - so if okay with everyone else could rock up for a couple of hours with her. She is very nice.

    Or if that not acceptable could tell her to come later and come and meet for a few hours in afternoon. I don't do long sessions anymore anyway - two glasses and I need to rest! And after Sunday's debacle - which I am still paying for - I am realising I really am to ill to push it.

    Would really love to meet all and sundry though even if just for a few hours.

  75. Hooray, Princess! I for one have no objection to any friends of yours. Looking forward to it....

  76. PCC I've no problems with anyone you wish to bring with you.

    I'm only there for a couple and then soft drinks too. I look forward to meeting you and all others who make it.

    I can't have inmateD30 - Gmail don't do caps thus I may have to settle for the rather ambiguous inmated30.

    I might try again as inmate(d30)

  77. Cheers Thauma and Deano. Be nice to put faces to names.

    I feel bad as would have offered my spare room to anyone in need - but now tis taken by said friend. Good job she texted me or she would have turned up and I wouldn't have had a clue she was coming this weekend.

    Very worried re the Israel/Turkey situation. If Turkey sends a military ship with the next aid convoy they say they are going to send does anyone think Israel would be mad enough to attack it. If they did that would be an attack against Nato wouldn't it?

  78. In keeping with the joyful nine bob philosophy of something new everyday.............

    "...In another study, 25 to 35 percent of men who had a PSA level between 4.1 and 9.9 ng/mL and who underwent a prostate biopsy were found to have prostate cancer, meaning that 65 to 75 percent of the remaining men did not have prostate cancer (3)....

    If my doc's receptionist can read accurately (and not be criticised for breaking the rules and giving me a test result over the phone) the news sounds promising a 65-75% chance of not having cock canker sounds good to me.

    I'd nonetheless better prepare my arse for the rectal examination which will still have to come.

    What's a finger up the bum compared to an insult to the brain, I should be so lucky Scherf.

  79. I've been thinking the same - Turkey is in NATO or was last time I looked

  80. afternoon all,


    Technically, there's an argument that Israel's actions yesterday already constitute an attack against Turkey, and therefore NATO.

    (Given that the ship was in International Waters, and flying a Turkish Flag, therefore the sovereign soil of Turkey, and given that the 'boarding' was done by agents of a foreign government, this, I believe, constitutes an act of war, more than piracy per se...)

  81. "that the ship was in International Waters, and flying a Turkish Flag, therefore the sovereign soil of Turkey, and given that the 'boarding' was done by agents of a foreign government, this, I believe, constitutes an act of war"


    PCC - i really dont think there is any act of aggression you could put past Israel, to be honest, and Turkey is nowhere near as close to the US as it used to be.

  82. Afternoon James - expect we are in for a fine display of sophistry...

  83. Jay I may have been asleep but I always thought Turkey's airspace and airfields were seen as very valuable to the US middle east invasion plans and perhaps even Afghan.

    I'm no military expert - we need Swifty

  84. Certainly not my friend James, ...unless you are US plant here on UT.

    ......deano falls off his stool laughing at his own pissed jokes......

  85. I'm sure they are, Deano, i think the "cooling" has come from Turkey's side, for domestic reasons.

  86. Princess

    Be nice to put faces to names.

    You say that now....

    Latest news I've seen is that Israel had apparently already sabotaged two of the ships.

  87. More media/politico sophistry that I had in mind.

  88. evening all

    this is interesting point from the craig murray blog........
    "I was talking overnight to friends in the UK Mission to the United Nations in New York who were personally sickened by the US role in negotiations. The US threatened to veto any statement which named Israel as the attacker. There is not even a mention of Israel in the security council statement. My friend in New York described the attitude of the American negotiators under Obama as even more aggressively and openly pro-Israel than under Bush."

    so doubt that ANYTHING will come out of this just another slapped wrist for Israel from the US...

  89. Thauma

    I have no doubts that the boats also were infiltrated by Israeli secret service personel this is quite usual, the same happened in Genoa G8 they were in the crowds agitating with Black Block...they act as agitators as well as informers, don't want to be too much of a conspiracy theorist but doesn't anyone think that this could be a possibility...?

  90. Gandolfo

    Politics doesn't do integrity and justice.

    Turkey's airspace well have greate vaule tha Israels. I see the attack on a Turkish flagged ship as an attack on Nato.

    However - there will be many voices calling 'cool it' - to the detriment of the Gazans.

    All - US + EU included - should use this as opportunity to open up Gaza by land ans sea. International force to police and Israel backing right off. Pressure should be put on Egypt too.

  91. evening all

    am feeling a bit battered by first 'day' at work. blimey. but seem to be in. more learning tomorrow, then off to try convincing people to buy things.


    self-present bottle of wine chilling in freezer.

  92. What worries me is that another aid ship is on its way - if this sort of thing happens again I don't know if the Turkish government will be able to NOT act faced with the intense anger of their own population.

    Where is the report about them sabotaging the ships Thauma?

  93. James/Jay et al

    An act of war against Turkey is in theory an act of
    war against the whole Nato alliance.For isn,t Nato
    underpinned by the equivalent of the mantra-''all
    for one and one for all'?Interesting times albeit
    potentially dangerous as well.

  94. Turkey still has some geo-political significance to the US, although it is significantly less than it once was.

    However, the bigger issue is it's inclusion in NATO, because effectively, the US could face a very difficult choice in the near future, should this escalate, or indeed be classified as an act of war.

    They can either, support Turkey, upholding the principles and practices of NATO, or they can support Israel as it's most important strategic ally in the Middle East, but in doing so, effectively destroy NATO....

    (Although they've not publicly admonished Israel, I suspect there's a whole lot of swearing going on behind closed doors in Washington right now...)

  95. A Israeli intel have been tracking this convoy from the moment of inception the presence of their agents would not surprise me.

  96. PCC

    there is a Graun front page link for the sabotage story


    NATO's response has been as "cool" as the UNSC...nobody wants trouble with Israel nor with the ME in general...can of worms Gaza, and its people, to them, are a small sacrifice to atain the idea of stabilty....

  97. Sorry,

    (My last post was held up by t'internet difficulties, so apologies for repeating stuff what's been said already).


    "More media/politico sophistry that I had in mind".

    In that case I agree (although wouldn't necessarily disagree if you had meant me anyway...)


    Hope you had a good first day!


    Yeah, the whole NATO thing is 'an attack on one constitutes an attack on all'....

  98. Gandolpho

    The official reports seem to suggest that the current SC statement is the result of compromise between the US and Turkey, although, in reality, I think we all know what 'compromise' means....

    It also means though, that Turkey already know, unofficially, where the US' allegiances lie, the question is whether they decide to push it to a point where they have to become 'official' ones....

  99. @ Philippa - please accept a virtual congratulatory pint from me - and hope the next few days go as well.

    Have been at work so still catching up on the aid flotilla latest - depressed but not surprised to see Gandolfo's clip from Craig Murray's blog re the US reaction.

  100. Turkey could leave NATO and move into a warmer relationship with Russia.

    Turkey no longer cares about joining the EU, but it could profit from it by being a transit route for oil and gas to Europe from the Caucasus and even Iran.

    Russia and Turkey would be equal partners in controlling Europe's energy needs.


  101. Thank you! Wine might be just chilled enough, will check it out...

  102. From Wiki, on NATO:

    "The Parties of NATO agreed that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all. Consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence will assist the Party or Parties being attacked, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area."

    Such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force does not necessarily mean that other member states will respond with military action against the aggressor(s).

    Rather they are obliged to respond, but maintain the freedom to choose how they will respond.....however often assumed that NATO members will aid the attacked member militarily.

    Further, the article limits the organization's scope to Europe and North America, which explains why the Falklands War did not result in NATO involvement.

    Now, I suspect we're probably now going to see an argument in Political/Diplomatic circles, most commonly seen amongst football/Eurovision enthusiasts, namely whether Israel can be legitimately considered to be in Europe or not.....

  103. Glad you survived the trauma PB

    My fegging feet are ringing wet having just got back from a walk after what has been a dank and wet day here.

    Barley heads are starting to turn South, they still look fine, necklaced as they are today in diamonds - the tiny drops of rain hang to their shards and turn them down.

    Magic - I've tried to photo them up close and when I find out how to post my pics I'll load em here.

  104. Interesting observations Nap

  105. Yep - that's what I thought I remembered the NATO charter saying..

  106. BBC World News has just said that NATO commander has condemned Israel....

  107. Nap - course there is the complicated question of the Georgians and the Armenians etc to be considered

  108. Thanks for the link Thauma.

    Can I just say on a totally off topic note how much I deeply despise and detest MAM. If I ever met them in real life I would want to punch their friggin lights out.

    I just wish they would go away and stop putting their vile, dumb, right wing sixth form Tory boy debating society level of bile up on Cif!

    Ah feel better.

  109. Nap - Turkey's position (in general) is interesting - after taking no end of crap from the EU (they first tried to join decades ago and have seen a dozen or so countries pop up and run past them) they seem to have taken a 'sod you then' view, shored up by their strategic position (oil / gas, Russia and the US).

    I mean, they'd make a lot out of EU membership - but they could make a tidy bundle outside too.

  110. PCC

    "Can I just say on a totally off topic note how much I deeply despise and detest MAM. If I ever met them in real life I would want to punch their friggin lights out".

    Amen to that.

    Also, on that sort of note, David Horowitz, editor in Chief of the Jerusalem Post, has just made it on to my 'people I'd like 5 minutes in a windowless room with' list!!

    (I just involuntarily shouted the C-word at the TV, and I don't usually do that....)

  111. "Can I just say on a totally off topic note how much I deeply despise and detest MAM. If I ever met them in real life I would want to punch their friggin lights out" - thirded.

  112. Apologies for being off-topic as well but everytime
    i log-on to discuss this potential world crisis
    the first thing i see is Jay,s plate of jaffa cakes.
    Dunno why but it somehow takes the edge off of things.

    @Princess-am convinced MAM is a computer of some
    sort employed by the Guardian.The Guardian feeds
    each blog into IT and IT churns out a 'controversial' response.And as i,m sure you,ve noticed 'Mams' response is almost always first on the thread.
    My other theory was that MAM was some sort of
    international consortium that was on 24 hour hour
    'lurking' duty.And whoever was on duty at the time
    responded whenever a blog that interested themwas published.

  113. Scherf - for the record:

    ".... and one from hank (when he revealed personal information about me which he had received in confidence)...."

    Nobody could think that you were misguided to remove in those circumstances.

    Montana has by request of those concerned (myself included) removed things that allowed individuals to be identified against their wishes.

  114. Just seen Jon Snow do a Paxman on Regev on C4 news, quite a sight - over what the Israelis will do if the Turks send a warship to accompany the Rachel Corrie. Regev seemed very taken aback.

  115. Pipelines always seem insecure things to me.

    Wild guys have a tendency to drill into pipes in the dark of night and siphon some of the contents. Course some of the poor sods in Nigeria (and other places) are always willing to run the risk it don't explode in their faces. Needs sometimes must.

    The whole idea that the first duty of the Government is to protect/defend and then advance the interests of the people (read realm) always sends me into hysteria. Sophistry of the highest order. That we should be dependant on a pipeline electricity cable is plain nuts.

    Fucking Thatcher sold our North sea oil cheap on open markets as did Brown our gold. You didn't have to have a brain to know that both were going to be worth more tomorrow than when they were sold.

    If your a UK PM and a globalisation free marketeer you are ispo facto guilty of treason.

    No fucking 'ifs' no fucking 'buts', no hiding behind your confused sexuality, or colour of your skin, or your distant relationship to HM Madje.

    I'm justified in hanging you.

  116. Deano.
    The Armenian question will be intersting. Russia and Armenia are long allies, culturally similar, and Russia has a military prescence in Armenia and is really responsible for the defence of that country, contolling all the hardware that matters, radars, SAMs, fighter jets etc. Russian troops even patrol Armenia's borders instead of Armenians.

    Turkey of course refuses to discuss the issue of the Armenian genocide (Israel also does not recognise it, but that was only to keep up good relations with Turkey- now that is kaput I suspect Israel will vote to recongise it in the next few weeks)

    So we may see.
    1) Israel shores up it's relations with Armenia to counteract Turkey.
    2) Turkey accepts it's culpability in the genocide in exchange for greater relations with Armenia, and therefore stronger relations with Russia. Together they would dominate the European energy market.
    3) Turkey thinks, sod Israel, sod NATO, sod Armenia (and by extension Russia) and acts alone. They are in a good position economically to supply Europe with oil and gas, even from places Iran- Europe needs it's resources whatever.

    Saakashvili is held up by Israeli mercnearies, and with NATO aspirations. If Turkey left NATO, I don't think he would last long.

    Other long term facts like the growing power of China . China has no interests in the holy city of Jerusalem as it is culturally not of the Abrhamic faiths, so there will be less religious/ideological motives to defend Israel unlike the rapture believeing Americans.

    Israel is also building relationships with India however. Perhaps they will learn some of Gandhi's teachings. :>

  117. Paul - at the moment, a plate of cakes (cakes, friends, the court system has ruled on this), like hermione's canaletto yesterday, is a reminder of simpler, less horrible things...

    and the conspiracy on MAM used to be that 'he' was a rogue software system escaped from the NSA and roaming wild.

    kind of like a genetically engineered viral weapon, but less cuddly.

    sheff - they've called a boat after rachel corrie? that's good stuff. the kind of testament she'd have liked, you think...

    james - I am normally opposed to the c-bomb but I appreciate that in some circumstances it's unavoidable (thatcher, griffin, moyles, that kind of level of evil)

  118. I watched the ITV news this afternoon and even Alistair Stuart was suprisingly non arse licky towards the ambassador he was interviewing.

    Might there be a change in the air? (Yes I am feeling insanely optimistic tonight).

  119. MAM once said he was a retired public sector worker.

    Emphasis on the retired. That is why he posts so often, (and many elderly people have shorter sleeping patterns). Many elderly people are also computer illiterate though, or only use them sparingly. MAM must live in a one bedroom flat with a bed, a fridge and a computer always plugged in.

    'Public sector worker' is a bit vague as well. That is a very wide field. Quite funny the admirer of Pinochet and free market ideologue worked for the state.

  120. nap - bear in mind a lot of US 'public sector workers' are routinely armed...

  121. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Move_Any_Mountain

    A techno song by the band The Shamen, big in the 1980s apparently.

    The plot thickens.

  122. Philippa,

    It's not often I go all tourettesish. Was quite suprised actually.
    (It was actually an MFing C-bomb, which I think is unprecedented).


    I fear it's probably more a 'riding of public opinion, for the moment', rather than a permanent change.

    (did anybody see Seth Freedman's piece in el Graun today?)

  123. I see US thinks Israel should lead enquiry - Makes me angry. No truth as usual.

    Maintaining Israel and her people in a state of denial will lead inevitably to disaster. Indulging them does no long term favours to anyone.

  124. Nap et al - I thought:

    Disturbing read

    was a depressing news from yesterday too.

  125. Jenn
    Might there be a change in the air?

    I hope so - but won't hold my breath.

    Jon Snow just clarified at the end of C4 news that although the Turkish foreign minister had said they might send a warship - they now have no intention of doing so.


    MAM once said he was a retired public sector worker.

    That wouldn't surprise me given some of the people I've met in the civil service - tight arsed, pedantic, jobs worthing tosspots, who have a little knowledge and often quite a lot of power which they wield with impunity.

  126. I think MaM likes to keep his actual experience very vague (that is if he is a real person) so he can claim to know a bit about any subject that catches his nastly little eye.

    From the look of the stuff he was vomiting on the Jobseeker thread he thinks he is Dr House.

  127. Leni,

    Yeah. Gotta love the US haven't you:

    'We call for an impartial and transparent investigation (*whispering - carried out by Israel)'.

    Well, that's f@cking big of you!!

  128. I can't be arsed with CiF these days but tonight I made an exception:

    Was David Laws's resignation necessary?

    Yes,as is his neck in a strong string from a lampost.

    What a damn sill question

  129. This comment has been removed by the author.

  130. MAM is probably a retired cheif of police then. Explains it all. I just fucking hate him. I want to do him violence and it is no good for my karma. I need to go and meditate on love or something or maybe just look at photos of kittens.

    For now I will make do with some more Diary Milk. Logging off now to go and have my tea, might try and pop back later if the insomnia strikes.

  131. James

    I read Seth F's piece - very hawkish for him I thought, I was surprised.


    I see US thinks Israel should lead enquiry

    As the Mavi Mamara went under the flag of the Comoros Islands my understanding is that, in international law its them who should lead any inquiry as the ship is their territory and the attack happened in international waters.

    But the US and Israel will no doubt get what they want whilst the EU bows and scrapes and everyone else fumes in the background and a few plot violent revenge.

  132. philippa

    ''kind of like a genetically engineered viral weapon, but less cuddly.''

    I think a rapidly mutating virus probably sums him up.
    Within a nano-second he manages to 'contaminate'
    every thread known to man.

    Glad the first day at work went well.

  133. International Law = the law of the powerful

    Interesting that Wiki indicates the Comoros Islands is an Islamic African State.

  134. phillipa

    Was going to say a MAMdemic but that really is too

  135. Not sure Paul - I liked MAMdemic

  136. pcc - photos of kittens...

    paul - he does manage to derail threads at a speed calculated by scientists as "F to the MF max", I hear...

  137. MaM is utterly boring. I don't bother reading any of his posts - just scroll past.

  138. Guard won't let me ost on the David Law thread so I'm parking the following here:

    """The man is clearly talented"

    But for the difficulty section 28 the man would have been an open Tory.

    I do not share your view that being a reckless axeman constitutes talent.

    The man is both dishonest and unprincipled, a common trait of many of his political bedfellows. What the so and so wouldn't do for political glory is too painful to contemplate

    If we had the recall/re-election cum by-election provision for corrupt MP's law in place I venture that the good people of Yeovil would tell the 'gentleman' exactly where he gets off.""

  139. Melanie Phillips is in fine form again....

    "The Tories are now in coalition with the Israel-bashing LibDems, who would blame Israel even if jihadis were to sail a flotilla up the Thames and take the entire LibDem leadership hostage."


  140. Re Laws: I am no multi-millionaire, but I can't be arsed claiming for minor expenses in my job. Probably I could get a couple of hundred quid off the taxman at the end of year if I did so, but I'm lucky enough not to need it. (And I'd be a lot happier if I could specify where the money went.)

    My "couple of hundred quid" is undoubtedly exponentially surpassed, in terms of net-worth-to-expenses ratios, by Laws' claims.

    WTF does he need that money for? If his partner needed it (which I also doubt), could he not just have given it to him? 40 grand over a few years for a multi-millionaire is pennies to the rest of us.

  141. Thauma I had a little spat with Steve hill a while ago, nothing serious, but he was defending Dave Camerons expenses claim of £680 to trim the Clematis (sp) in his garden because it could cause structural damage.

    He couldn't quite seem to comprehend that a multimillionaire shouldn't claim such a piddly (to him) amount even though he could.

    The idea that anyone worth that much money would bother with such an amount makes me feel ill but I suppose that is why the rich stay rich.

  142. Stupid idea: voluntary extra tax of, say. .5% of income. But with the provision that the taxpayer is allowed to earmark its disposition.

  143. Exactly, Jennifer, that amount to someone like Cameron is less than buying a coffee to the rest of us.

  144. AND the idea that my employer ought to pay the maintenance on my *cough* estate is a lovely one, but it's never going to happen!

    ... Not to mention my non-existent second home ...

  145. Do we know for certain that, in Cameron's case, 'trim the clematis' isn't some kind of euphemism??

  146. Well, James, no we don't, but as Cameron doesn't exactly look like a fierysexyboy, I'm willing to believe that it actually was all about the climbing plants.

  147. "...Do we know for certain that, in Cameron's case, 'trim the clematis' isn't some kind of euphemism?..

    Class James

  148. At least I hope so. If I have horrible nightmares tonight, I am going to blame you.

  149. Thauma,

    Well, James, no we don't, but as Cameron doesn't exactly look like a fierysexyboy, I'm willing to believe that it actually was all about the climbing plants.

    Never underestimate the 'public school' effect....

  150. Ah thaum too kind by far. What do you know about Bullingdon boys that we don't??

    I thought you were into rugby men not small boys with silly haircuts in silk waistcoats.

  151. thauma
    "voluntary extra tax of, say. .5% of income. But with the provision that the taxpayer is allowed to earmark its disposition"
    well, were i still properly waged, i might go for that. if only to offset the colonel-blimp-splutter-splutter-jan-moir-prurient-pointy-finger-arsewipe constituency by specifying that it should only go to one-legged black lesbian drama groups from croydon...

  152. Ah Deano, don't start me dreaming of rugby men....

    Philippa - heh, it would be fun to do something like that, wouldn't it?

    Congrats on your job, but I am slightly at sea as to the nature of it - can you elaborate? (Completely understand if you don't want to for privacy reasons.)

  153. *shudders* - watch the NoW. That's just what I'm expecting Dave's gardener boy to say he was told to do by Dave.

    Watch out for the lad's kiss and tell expose of Dave, the clematis, and the shudder.

  154. Thauma,

    You can file whatever image you have in your head now along with the one of Andrew Brown in a pink lycra catsuit, with both accompanied by a Celine Dion soundtrack.

    (On a scale of 1 to 10, how glad are you that I joined the UT now, eh!?)

  155. "..Ah Deano, don't start me dreaming of rugby men...."

    You don't need any encouragement from me.

  156. Arrrgggghhhh, James, nooooooo!

    I've eaten cheese. I am doomed tonight.

  157. haha, apologies Thaum.

    On a slightly more serious note, apart from a little thingy from the book festival doodah, all flotilla stuff seems to have disappeared from The Guardian's front page.

    So that's that then....

  158. Deano

    You don't need any encouragement from me.

    True dat.

    News of World - am no wiser. Tabloid, I think?

  159. James, have just refreshed Graun main page and got "Pressure build on Israel for inquiry into flotilla deaths" along with a load of related articles. Trick of timing?

  160. "Pressure builds on Israel for inquiry into flotilla deaths"

    James - I'm still reading the above as the current lead story???

  161. Ah, my mistake,

    Just refreshed and got that too.

    As you were...

  162. NoW - is the home of legendary headlines viz:

    - NoW

    and if I recall correctly

    NUT SCREWS WASHER AND BOLTS FROM ASYLUM - the story of the rape of an unfortunate inmate in a mental hospital by another patient who then ran away.......

  163. Disgusting lack of responsibility by the US.

    Off to bed with a book to (hopefully) dispel horrid images.

  164. NoW - is Murdoch owned and I think that the above headlines were pre his ownership else I wouldn't have quoted them.

  165. thaumaturge

    My commiserations if your top rugby fantasy figure
    was Gareth Thomas.

  166. ladies - well, everyone, but specially the ladies - give a listen to tonight's 'in living memory' on R4

    awesome quantities of respect

    even if Mary kelly's turned right round now...

    thauma - job is with saas BI data visualisation thingy - french team, english-speaking client base, let's see if I can't start a war, eh? heh heh.

    makes pretty pictures. will be able to update moddy excelt graphs on the UT2 soon...

  167. Thauma and others,

    On a slightly more positive note, I just checked the NY Times website, expecting to find quite a lot of Neo-Con cock-knockery in the comments section, but the bit I read actually seems quite restrained, and, if anything, more measured than some of the Guardian threads have been.

    I know it's one of the papers that FOX likes to call 'pinko-libral-crypto-socialist' (or whatever phrase the kids are using nowadays), but maybe it's possible we'll see some internal pressure on the US to get off of the (de)fence on this one.....

  168. well, hillary's been politely requesting access to the dead, so I don't think the US has changed it's solicitous tune much...

  169. And, as that's about as positive as I can be today, probably a good idea to call it a night.

    In the words of Edward R. Murrow,

    'Goodnight, and Good luck'.

  170. Philippa,

    It's interesting though, cause if the left/democrats come out against Israel, and the administration bottle their response, it puts them in a hell of a tough position with elections coming up....

  171. (The US don't have too much political capital to play with Internationally at the moment, either....But I'll leave that for tomorrow)

    Godspeed folks.

  172. james - aye, but, sadly, it's never going to happen. there's been opposition for years, but it's never made a difference. the US appears to be holding a similar line - less unequivocal than Bush, but the same line...

    former german mp interviewed on the wolrd tonight - being nudged by interviewer into speculating that people on the ship who he couldn't see might have been violent. the con is on. can't see it changing.


  173. @PhilippaB What's all this mean then?


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    Come off it Deanno, Inmate d30 sounds like a Dr Who villain!

  174. Deano - haha, it's working.

    Philippa - Yeah, you're probably right.

    Change we can believe in my f@cking arse....

    Right, definitely off now!!

  175. turm - think it's got a nice ring to it.

    I was only trying to be collegiate and fit in with Dotts' earlier suggestion.

  176. It's not inmated30 or inmate d30 I had to struggle to get a cap D into my identity.

    Techno art I call it.

  177. scherfig you say "I have only ever deleted a handful of posts here in well over a year. They were all from bitey when he was viciously attacking BB and montana."

    Well quite the protective gent at heart aren't you. And what was it you said about MrsB the other day? Something about a huge ego, (as big as mine?), like a school kid being stroppy, incredibly naive politically?

    Would it surprise you scherfig that the piece of satire I posted here which was later removed by you because it so upset your sensitive disposition, was later posted on CiF by MrsB herself, where it remains to this day. (What do you want to talk about? 08 Dec 09, 12:11pm).

    And if that's your idea of a vicious attack, how does it compare with the Israeli attack on the peace boaters or indeed their attack on the Israeli military?

    And before you repeat that tired accusation of stalking, the record is that of 160 or so posts on CiF, 97 were initiated by me and 63 by Mrs B. And given that she's had two articles ATL, one her notorious defence of the CPS whose negligence resulted in the death of a woman at the hands of her violent husband, that probably evens things up. And for Montana the score is 19 to 27. So hardly the evidence of stalking, yes?

  178. deano

    As you often seem to be the first to welcome newcomers
    i,m not sure inmateD30 is actually that welcoming.

    Perhaps Montana should change the UT logo to --


  179. turminder - dunno, but i think one of my first taks may be to take them out...

    oh, and piss off bitey.

    as nobody else is around...

  180. Quite enjoying watching Regev spluttering every time his prepared speech is interrupted (Newsnight)

    Regev is one of my least favourite people - ever.

  181. Sorry to be late with this but I can delete posts. THere is a dustbin by all the posts, unless someone asks me to delete a post containingpersonsl info, I can't see myself using it - don't believe in deleting posts just because they offend - we are big girls and boys and shoul be able to deal with this.

    I can delete posts and leave no trace - have done this to my own and I can't see any sign of them afterwards. If anyone wants me to try with someone elses then please post a test post and I'll see what happens ;)

    Going to bed now - late for me!

  182. Somedays life just ain't funny.

  183. heyhabib

    Tell me about it!

  184. But it can be romantic habib

    I just heard (newsnight)that Liz Taylor goes to sleep with a letter from Richard Burton, by her bed, dated three days before his death....indicating that he wanted a reconciliation.

    A42 - thanks for that. I still trust the integrity of all those with keys.

    Regards - inmateD30 aka deano30.

  185. Perhaps he wanted his diamonds back - nah I've more faith in the Welsh than that.

    It could have been his favourite lead crystal drinking glass or maybe the bottle/decanter thing.

  186. akaDeano

    Sorry - i will find it very difficult to address you as anything other than deano.

  187. ...My dear young miss..............you may call me anything you like...

  188. @deano

    I agree with Leni .Deano you are and deano you will
    remain as far as i,m concerned.