04 June 2010


Henry III became Holy Roman Emperor in 1039. Sir Walter Raleigh established the first English colony on Roanoke Island in 1584. Suffragette Emily Davison was killed by the king's horse at the 1913 Epsom Derby. The Battle of Midway began in 1942.

Birthdays: King George III (1738); Geoffrey Palmer (1927); Dr Ruth Westheimer (1928); John Barrymore (1932); Michelle Phillips (1944); Val McDermid (1955); Cecilia Bartoli (1966); Angelina Jolie (1975).

It is Independence Day in Tonga.


  1. Anmer, the horse, was uninjured and finished the race riderless. Herbert Jones, the jockey, suffered broken ribs.

  2. No animals were harmed in the making of this photograph.

  3. thaumaturge:

    Thanks for the new thread.... I'll try and get back over the weekend.... ah, but most of yez'll be supping beer and sitting in the sunshine ;)

  4. I hope we will be getting updates over the weekend, not to mention photos, I want to see Bitterweed dance. ;)

  5. Montana - I just wanted to say I am very sorry for your loss.

  6. Yep condolences Montana, hope you're doing ok. We have made a pigs ear of the place in your absence, between me and thaum we have seen comments plunge to about 30 a day :(

  7. Condolences Montana.

    Jay achieved 247 comments from a plate of Jaffa cakes the other day, so not all bad news. Warm sunny weather, and a whiff of summer, drives the boys and girls to play other games...briefly

  8. That's it Jay! Deano has hit the nail on the head. In place of Montana's posts the only way forward until she feels up to posting again is to post pictures of confectionary. Can we have wagon wheels tomorrow?

  9. That female sports commentators article puts me in mind of my favourite piece of sports commentary ever.

    During the female weightlifting competition at the 2000 Olympics (the first time women were allowed to compete in weightlifting I think, I may be wrong), a burly Bulgarian weightlifter walks on to the platform. As she is preparing to lift, the commentator, regarding her chances, says:

    "I saw her snatch in training this morning, and I have to say it was magnificent"

  10. That's brilliant Duke.

    Right off out for some sun me-thinks.

  11. Regarding MAM's posts.

    There seems to be a discussion regarding his posts and banning him etc. Two things for me:

    1. Free speech is free speech. The poster in question is never personally abusive, never makes ad homs etc. To say they should be banned is ludicrous.


    2. Other posters should not engage him. He is an out and out troll. He never, never, never, never accepts any other viewpoint or argument. Ever.

    That is not a debater, that is a troll. I had an argument donkeys ages ago with him about prisoners and rehabilitation.

    As usual, he said that rehabilitation never works, it has never been proven. I retaliated with various evidence and links which showed his view to be a crock of shit. He ever once acknowledged it and just kept on going. Only last week he was talking exactly the same shit again about prisoners and rehabilitation.

    He's like a broken record that keeps on saying the same things again and again and again and again regardless of how many times his views are pounded into dust. That is a troll.

    The only way to deal with him is to completely ignore him.

  12. Look. What happens in Sheffield stays is Sheffield.

  13. Yep ignoring him to death is the way to go.

    I may start stalking him and posting 'don't feed the troll' after everything he says.

  14. Your Grice:

    Please let me apologise for my failure to engage further yesterday re: Wilders. I was called away and could not return. Sorry.

  15. Bitterweed, what a spoilsport. ;)

  16. 13thDukeofWybourne
    I agree. I'm a libertarian on this. MAM ? Bannned ? Ludicrous. Of course it's contemptible crock of shit. Just keep taking the piss out of the lot I say. Ok, it didn't help my posting "priviledges" but who cares ?

    Still chuckling about that Sporting Lesbian team name.

  17. jennifer, you have to be there ok !

  18. Morning all....

    Agree about MaM.
    That said, I do believe that I managed to 'defeat' him once, during one of his 'Pinochet was a diamond geezer' efforts on a Latin American thread.

    (Granted, it was in the shape of him disappearing, rather than admitting he was talking shite, but still, pretty rare anyways.....)

  19. We should set up a version of Cif bingo.

    Me talking sense, Disordered not being offended, Damntheral being serious, Prof Plums being kind and the ultimate prize MAM apologising.

    It could be fun.

  20. ""I saw her snatch in training this morning, and I have to say it was magnificent"


    MaM shouldnt be banned, i dont think anyone should be. People need to be careful on this - even if its the most grotesque commenter on the whole board, the principle is a dangerous one - horrible, offensive posters should be banned.

    And the reasons its dangerous is because there is a small army of petty minded cretins out there who sit at their machine all day long hitting the abuse button. The mods put people in premod, then they ban them, then we all complain about it.

    Its for that reason that i never report abuse, and never ask for someone to be banned. Once you set the precedent or add to that climate of censorship, however vile the post or commenter in question, you are contributing to the environment where good posters are banned because virtually every poster is considered abhorrent by someone out there.

  21. medve, geen probleem!

    BW, unfortunately I can't claim credit for that, it's a beauty.


    Granted, it was in the shape of him disappearing, rather than admitting he was talking shite

    And that's the nub of the matter. The next Pinochet thread he will say exactly the same thing as he got a drubbing on all over again to get the same reaction. That's a troll.

    To paraphrase Mao's guerilla maxim:

    "The people are like water and the guerilla army is like fish"

    "Irate retaliations are like water, MAM's posts are like fish"

    Ignore him and his raison d'etre disappears.

  22. Hell yes. Half day for me. Out into the garden now, then round the lakes then off down the pub.

    See some of youse tomorrow.

  23. Jen,

    for the bingo, can I add a Seaton response that doesn't make him look like a c@nt!?


    from the last olympics:

    'now, let's see the jerk. Remember, she already has a record breaking snatch under her belt.....'

    and re MaM. I know what you mean, but I have noticed that if you 'prove' him wrong on one thread, other people sometimes use the same stuff to do it again on another...Sometimes I think it's important to have his shit disputed, lest there's a reader who could believe and perpetuate it...
    Admittedly though, it's fruitless to try and change his mind....

  24. James: We can form a club of MaM-slayers. I managed to shoot him/her/it down in flames once on the legality of the Iraq war. Meanwhile Untrustees were egging me on: quite an experience.

  25. This summer.

    When you can't abide the claptrap...

    When you've had just about enough...

    When you just can't keep your mouth shut any longer, who ya gonna call?

    MAM Slayers!!!

    Cert 18, a xuss production ; )

  26. I am fucked right off by this weather, I can either go and sit out the front (on a main road) or sit out the back with the bins (it is smelly).

    I can buy a tripper ticket (£4.10) which will take me to a nearby park (I can't afford it) or I can walk there which takes 2 hours.

    Even the weather hates me.

    So I will sit here in my concrete box and swelter.

  27. I don't mind MaM. It's polite, at least, however barking mad and bizarre its opinions might be. And it does sometimes disturb groupthink. On the whole, though, I shall continue giving it plenty of the back of my neck.

    And Jay, there are certainly regular posters who set my teeth on edge for various reasons. One in particular has had me shouting words beginning with F and C at the screen earlier today. No desire to hit the abuse button though - besides, I don't think there's a category for sneering arseholeness.

  28. Turm,


    One of the more worrying things to come out of the commenter of the year discussions on CiF, was people saying stuff like:

    'i always though MaM was quite knowledgable/authoritative and was inclined to believe him, until I happened to see him talk about something when I knew was wrong'

    It sort of became a 'thing' for me to challenge him on certain subjects after that.....

  29. Chin up Jen ; ) Are you really 6 miles from the nearest (decent) public space? I had a pal in Nidrie (scheme in south Embra) It was a 2 mile walk for him to the nearest shop that sold green veg, the local shops had spuds and onions, carrots if you were lucky.. ; (

  30. I walk very slowly Turm, one of those things, I am known for my tardy ways.

    However I think I told everyone that I am obese and I waddle very slowly.

    It doesn't stop me wanting to get places, so my walking may not be the same as yours.

    Walking to the local park is well within my reach and having fun is also doable but walking home is torture.

  31. jen, bicycle?

  32. Jen,

    It could be worse, I'm known for my 'tarded ways......

    Right, off out for a bit.


  33. Dott, my fat arse on a bike, I think not (I have tried to cycle but I have problems with steering) also as a fatty I get some vile comments which haunt me still.

    I have just signed on to a local authority version of weight watchers (it's free hooray) and I will stick to it completely, it is great, I also get free tickets to swim and use the gym.

    I will lose weight but in the end I will put it all back on (plus a bit extra).

    I keep trying because I don't want to be a victim of fat hatred but my body and my brain keep fucking me up.

  34. I have more mass than I should too Jen, ken it ain't easy.. I'm trying to cycle to or from work a couple of times a week, 3rd time today, I hope it gets easier!

  35. Turm

    It is hard, I can (and often do) starve myself for a fortnight.

    Eating nothing for two weeks or more can kill you (and it tags you as anorexic).

    But when you are still fat after those two weeks you are seen as attention seeking rather than ill.

    Fuck that diagnosis and fuck those people whe judge me because I am fat.

  36. Well said JayReilly - cut, pasted and saved for posterity.

  37. @ Jen, you probably know all this...

    Starving is not the way, your body will want to lay down more fat in the expectation of more starvation, thats a tough cycle to break..

    Diet and exercise together, eat less move more, simple to say, bloody hard to do!

    Something that seems silly, but really worked for me was smaller plates, it 'fools' you into thinking you've had a good portion, even tho it's less than you're used to...

    Finally, it's up to you. Anyone being 'stoutist' can go and fuck themselves!

    ; )

  38. ...cut, pasted and saved for posterity,

    Seriously bitey, get help!

  39. jen, turm, yep me too....

    Exercise works best, I was at my thinnest when I was cycling 9 miles a day and swimming twice or three times a week. Unfortunately I can't do that any more, but I'm hoping that some outside physical work this summer, and my winter exercise regime (last summer I had to give up the evening swims, not this summer) should sort me out!

    Also, I resist treats (not food though:that makes it worse!) during the day by promising myself something nice in the evenings, doesn't always work, but sometimes I manage it and forget to have what I promised myself, bonus!

  40. How about we all give up crisps or chocolate or whatever for a month and use the money saved to buy Bitey a life?

  41. t'xuss

    I can understand why those UTs who have ventured above the line, BeautifulBurnout and Montana in particular and to a lesser extent Anne Tanner who seems to live in a Labour Party branch marooned for ever in the sixties, objecting to my refusal to offer gushing praise to their efforts and instead enter the spirit of CiF and engage in the cut and thrust that makes it such an interesting place. So when they resort to abusive language it is at least understandable, although when they're reminded about it in polite company, I can understand why they'd rather have been somewhat less intemperate.

    But for you T'xuss all you ever have to offer are bland, rather childish comments:-

    "Seriously bitey, get help!", "piss off bitey", "Not like you to misspell.. Upset? Emotional? You seem to have pissed on your chips pal, aw, diddums..." and more recently, silly racist jokes.

    If anyone needs help I don't think it's me.

  42. Ah, but, bth, people like me... a feeling you can never have known...

  43. Hello bitey,

    (long-time reader, first-time responder here..)

    Just out of interest, how should we respond to what is, at least as far as I've seen, a single issue poster??

  44. James - I don't think bitey wants a response - he's in love with his own rhetoric and archival skills.

    Pleasanter news - Anne has arrived in sheffield and will shortly be coming over to mine for dinner. Can't wait to meet her at last!

    Any other UTers who're over this evening are welcome to join us.

  45. Sheff,

    Am jealous.

    Still, I Hope all UTers involved in the festivities this weekend have a brilliant time....

  46. Have a great time Sheff and Anne. x

  47. Sheff Anne

    enjoy your dinner...start of a crazy weekend me thinks!!!

  48. Annes arrived!! is ensconced on sofa - about to eat....the weekend has begun!!

  49. Evening all. Hope the Sheffield bash goes well. off out soon for a birthday meal, so can't stop long.
    Re: banning posters,nope, never, and even though some really get on my wick, that's a tiny price to pay for freedom of speech and expression. That said, as the Guardian does ban people, it should be consistent in doing so,whereas it seems plain capricious. Still, it's their gaff, so their rules. Shame no-one has a very clear idea of what they are. Ah,well, I'm not going to fret overly about it, since I'd not ban anyone ever.

  50. Welcome to Sheffield Anne!!

    Is it your birthday Alisdair? If so happy birthday.

    Re MAM - I don't think he should be banned and said as such on Wadya (a thread I don't often go on but been bit dragged into). What does piss me right off is that many other posters ARE banned and they are not fascist arse wipes. They should be bloody re-instated whilst it is trolling its bile un harrassed. I don't think anyone should be banned. It makes the whole 'comment is free' bit a bit ridiculous really.

    I have decided I will ignore him from now on as others have suggested.

    Have apologised to Disordered again just now who still seems to be upset - they are going to look at my posts and see if I am their ''defender''. I have never claimed to defend anyone. Think I might possibly have to start avoiding Disordered too actually.

    Am stressed out enough as it is. In fact I may avoid Cif for a while who knows (its so like crack - bad for a person but seriously addictive).

    Who is coming to Sheff tomorrow?

  51. Anne's about to eat the sofa!

  52. Take care PCC, don't let Cif get you down.

    Have a great weekend, meet new people and have a laugh.

    You are greatly respected on Cif (deservedly) and I really hope to meet you one day. x

  53. PCC

    try to forget about disordered one apology is enough. I think she is now really exagerating the whole thing and it's her that is coming back again and again to this...it's her problem now not yours....enjoy tomorrow!

  54. Have a good weekend in Sheffield all.


    As far as I'm concerned, Rednorth's post on WADYYA nailed it last night. I doff my cap in admiration at the way you post with such conviction, passion and eloquence.

    Make no doubt about it, the internet is the domain of the nihilist, right wing nutcase and there's times when I look at the threads and wonder how you do it. But please, don't let it ruin your health or spirit, it's not worth it and certainly don't let MAM or disordered get you down.

    And for what it's worth, in my opinion, you're poster of the year on there.

    Right, I've got a darts tournament on in my local. I have to keep the spirit of Jocky Wilson alive in this den of Raymond van Barneveld lovers.

    Fijn avond allemaal

  55. Jenn - hope to meet you too one day as well.

    Read your comment a bit ago as I read through the thread about people saying vile things to you. It makes me so mad. What gives people the idea that they have the right to comment on another person? Fuck em indeed!

  56. Hi All

    PCC--You've apologised enough for what was really an unintended slight. I think Disordered is a bit oversensitive and should see by now that you were battling other demons. (In MaM's head) Keep posting, as others have said, you are good to read.

    Duke, if I'm not mistaken, didn't Jocky Wilson inhale 7 vodkas before competition? Good on you to honor that tradition.

    Happy bithday Alisdair, have a great one.

    To all going to the meetup, have a blast and send pictures. I'll forward them the the National Enquirer.

  57. Jen - your post made me think about annoying people who think they can comment on other people and it reminded me of what my boss once said to me in front of the whole office.

    She kept staring at me and saying I reminded her of someone. then she said ''Oh I know you're like Geri Halliwell - only her fat lookalike!'' Well firstly I don't think I look anything like Geri Halliwell and secondly I was more than a bit horrified that the whole office had heard the remark.

    Right off to clean the house for arrival of friend. It is covered in so much dog hair I reckon I could make a living from weaving it into fine jumpers and such.

    P.s Boudican - ooh I would LOVE to be in the National Enquirer - only the World Weekly News is a finer publication in my eyes.

  58. Welcome to Sheffield, anne!

    I'll be there, princess, so see you at the Rutland. btw, MAM once accused me of being rude, which I was miffed about. Terse, yes, but not rude & offensive like wot herm is.

    Very much looking forward to meeting up with t'others from our last get-together.

    Wish others could join us too. We'll no doubt raise a glass & a Jaffa cake (de rigeur at these do's - see UT photos for evidence) to absent friends.

  59. PCC
    "It is covered in so much dog hair I reckon I could make a living from weaving it into fine jumpers and such."

    well this sprang to mind........

    on a doggy note I spend most of my time removing wild barley seeds from my mutt who seems to have magnetic fur last year cost me a fortune in vet bills after he ate loads......also have considered making something out of the hair he leaves.....maybe a co-operative when times get really hard.....!

  60. Very good gandolfo. I'd be lucky to get a pair of mittens from my wee hound. OK, off to walk said hound. Bye for now.

  61. All those heading for (or already in) Sheffield - hope you have a great time.

  62. Well, I hear that anne & sheff have enjoyed their time together!

  63. Right - Anne's gone off to sleep and prepare for the fun tomorrow.

    MeC - We had a great time going over political battles we'd been involved in - won, lost and drawn.

  64. Night folks.

    Have a great time everyone involved in the weekend's shananigans.....

  65. Good article in today's "Independent", by Johann Hari, regarding the I/P issue for those who like to comment (or,like me, just try to make sense of it!)

  66. Hope you all get absolutely rat-arsed in Sheffied
    tomorrow.Have a great time everyone.

    Nite all.

  67. I think I may have made a mistake. For the last ten years I have lived with a 9" television, quite happily. A few days ago it reaached the end of it's life when the tube went.

    What the fuck possesed me to buy a 32" flat thing.

    That Kirsty Sark on Newsnight Review, in closeup, will probably give me nightmares.

    Plainly a monumental error.

  68. thanks for the pointer chekhov - very good article. Basically what it boils down to is 'solidarity' - if we have nothing else we can try and resurrect that.

  69. Alisdair Cameron: you were quite right to flag up the inconsistency of the moderation/ censorship on CIF.
    Georgina Henry said that Lord Summerisle was banned, "not because of what he said, but the way he said it"!
    When I pointed out to her that what she was saying was absurd, I got "modded" obviously.
    Anyway her and Matt Seaton are off to peddle their bollocks elsewhere. I'm not sure if the new boys and girls will do any better but I'm not holding my breath!

  70. @chekhov, @Sheff

    I've read the piece, which has some gaps in it that Hari skates round...

    But picking up one thing; solidarity is great, put you have to pick and choose who you are solid with and why based on principle. Otherwise, it's too easy to slip into a Pilgeresque 'you can't be too choosy' attitude to allies.

    Individual human solidarity, absolutely wonderful.

  71. Sheffpixie: if we can resurrect "solidarity" in Sheffield tomorrow my trip down from Newcastle Upon Tyne will have been worthwhile!

  72. Peter: you are quite right. I don't know all the facts which is why I don't comment on I/p issues. But surely there is no reason why I shouldn't point people who do in the direction of information that might enlighten them.

  73. Sorry I should have said "people who do want to know the facts" rather than people who know them!

  74. Mind you - the Bon Jovi gig in Central Park in black and white on a 32" ain't bad.

  75. Hope things get easier soon Montana - Regards.

    Right that's me taking a break for a while guys.

  76. Has anyone been watching "The Genius of Britain" on channel 4 this week?
    How many American children are taught that Thomas Edison invented the light bulb when in fact it was invented by someone in Northumberland in the North East of England!
    The first house in the world to be powered by hydro electricity was "Cragside" (also in Northumberland)
    The Internet was instigated by someone called Turing (can't remember is first name, Brian I think).
    The www was invented by Tim Berners Lee who was British and furthermore gave up his invention without patent for the good of all mankind.
    I hope the American kids get taught all this sort of stuff!
    The jet engine was invented by Frank Whittle but no doubt the Americans choose "Boeing" to have done it.
    Antibotics were discovered by Alex Flemming.
    The Telephone, by Alexander Graham Bell.
    The television by John Logie Baird.
    None of this stuff was "invented" by Americans.
    They just worked how to exploit it!

  77. Name me one thing the Americans invented other than their own self importance?

  78. Sorry, Turmninderxuus: You are quite right: "Alan Turing" was the person I was refering to. Thanks for putting me right on that.

  79. The Americans used all the wisdom of the science of their forebears to make a bomb. How fucking stupid does it get?

  80. chekhov--What have the Americans ever done for us? In a worldly view, some fine achievements. They do, however, claim many innovations and inventions that are clearly not American. I find many other countries, notably the Chinese, will claim to have come up with things that are not generally credited to them. Revisionism is a huge industry these days and it pisses me off. Nationalism is the end result of this stuff and benefits no one really. What to do? Just keep talking about it as we are now doing.

    deano--Concerts on the bigger screen are pretty cool too. Not to mention old Ann Margaret films. Not all bad buddy, believe me. Knock em dead tommorrow, have a blast. Wanting to be with you lot, but no can do. One day maybe.


  81. have a good time, all sheffield types!

    (pictures, we want pictures...)

  82. Morning, Philippa.

    I'm sure there will be pictures if people agree to posting them, but respect for privacy rules if that's what individuals want.

    Nice day for a meet, though.