29 August 2009

Daily Chat 29/08/09


The naval forces of Edward III defeated the Castilian fleet in the Battle of Winchelsea in 1350. The Ottoman Turks captured Buda in 1541. Michael Faraday discovered electromagnetic induction in 1831. The Beatles performed their last concert in front of a paying audience at Candlestick Park in San Francisco in 1966 and in 2005, Hurricane Katrina hit the US Gulf Coast, killing 1,836 people and causing $80 billion in damages.

People born on this day: John Locke (1632-1704), Ingrid Bergman (1915-1982), Charlie Parker (1920-1955), Richard Attenborough (1923), Elliott Gould (1938), Lenny Henry (1958) and Michael Jackson (1958-2009). It is the Commemoration of the Beheading of St. John the Baptist.

120 comments:

  1. Off to a beer festival at a cricket club today, folks. Armed with cheese and bread. I won't be around all day and when I get back in the evening, if I post, I'll be making even less sense than usual.

    Please stick one on that poisonous harpy*, Bea Campbell for me.

    *Sexist perhaps, but only in that if she were a man I'd be calling her a lot worse than that.

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  2. Just to tie up a few loose ends from last night:

    Bitterweed – You got there in the end.

    Colin – With you on that, Brother Stoat.

    Sealion – Sounds like the best that could be hoped for.

    Dan – clearly you’re entitled to express your opinion, but I suspect you’re on your own on this one.

    Right, what are we going to blather about today...

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  3. Madam Stoat used to send money in response to the occasional charity mailing. She now gets at least 2 letters every day from different 'causes'. We can only assume that she is on a 'suckers list'.
    I find that such lists can be bought (quite expensive) on the internet.
    So, fuck 'em all, we don't send to any of them now but they are still wearing out the shredder.

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  4. That nice Mrs Campbell did a really good talk- ooh, must've been 25 years back- about how Thatch succeeding in the Tory party by becoming more mannish than the Tory men. And I've not heard hide nor hair of the woman since.

    We're a week into Ramadan now and tempers are short here in Marrakech...

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  5. Dan,
    I'm a bit short myself but I still don't have any time for Campbell.

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  6. Ultima thinks CiF needs a psychologist:
    "But a community can go wrong because of coupla mentally ill people, often because they cannot spot them. Even relatively healthy people can at some situations act in a way that could be described as nothing but sick."
    (WDYWTTA)

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  7. Just watched two movies I thought I'd hate cos I'd read the books (and didn't like them) but i thought the movies were great.
    They were: Watchmen and The Reader
    Anyone else name movies that were better than the book?
    English Patient's one...

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  8. Yeah, I noticed that too, Fence.

    I drafted a response, but plenty of others seem to have got in ahead of me. Short of recommending those who have challenged her, I think I’ll leave it.

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  9. Agreed - some well-thought-out responses there.
    I'm still trying to think of film-better-than-book; I know there's one, but it's eluding me for the mo.

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  10. Currently reading 'Men who stare at goats' and have just watched trailer of movie. Book is only amusing because it's true- movie obviously wacky comedy and looks like a real clunker (like 'Burn after reading')

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  11. Fencewalker - I think its transference - she probably needs one herself.

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  12. Hay guise, what's goin on in this thread? Lolol.

    Hi. I decided to return to CIF. How is everyone?

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  13. *****Trigger warning for 12.44 post on WDYWTTA *****

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  14. So has anyone seen 'Watchmen'?
    Pile of crap or inspired movie thanks to brilliant screenplay and wonderful storyboard?

    Comments please on a postcard...

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  15. sartrecastic: I can’t speak for everyone, but my life continues to be the same tortuous balancing act between Being and Nothingness. Thanks for asking.

    (I’ve tried to achieve an answer appropriate to your excellent name. Hope I’ve succeeded.)

    Welcome back, BTW :-)

    MsChin: Not sure I’d agree.

    Frankly, his suggestion is no worse that some of the other stuff that appears on Cif. It’s a huge taboo he’s suggesting we debate, and rightly so, but doesn’t mean it should be rejected out of hand as eg MsWoman appears to be doing.

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  16. I liked it, Dan. You might also be interested in 'The Watchmen Motion Comic', a semi-animation of the original strip. Google it - lots of torrent sites, iTunes etc.

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  17. MsChin - yep, saw that post. I find it difficult to respond coherently. Andy - I am inclined to think MsWoman's response is along the lines I would take. No platform for Nazis. No platform for paedophiles either. I don't want either to have even the vaguest rehabilitation to even the remotest fringes of social acceptability.

    But that's just me.

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  18. No platform... I'd like to agree but somehow it seems like leaving a festering sore to cure itself. Also, I have to believe it's possible to win over some people.

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  19. BB
    Me too.

    andysays
    I can appreciate the need for some to debate the issues of intergenerational sexual attraction, but I struggle with the legitimacy of this on CiF, fascinating though it may be to engage with someone of that persuasion.

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  20. martillo

    I agree that "no platform" with regards paedophilia seems harsh. I am not suggesting they be left to fester, but I don't believe that there should be any room for paedophile apologists. People have sexual urges of all shapes and forms, some more palatable than others. Between consenting adults I have no issue with them. But when the other sexual partner is a child, unable to understand in real terms what is happening to them, there can be no concept of consent, and thus paedophiles are no more than predators and rapists.

    Of course measures need to be taken to help people with these impulses to manage them - I don't really think you can be "cured" of having those feelings, in the same way that a rapist can't be "cured" - but to me that does not include allowing them a forum to explain to us all how it really isn't all that bad after all, etc. No way.

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  21. I’ve responded to thagrote on WDYWTTA?

    I haven’t suggested he follow the link in my profile.

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  22. What's there to debate? Paedophilia is harmful, violent, damaging, and anti-social. Sure, we can 'psychologise' it, but the upshot is that kids get harmed day in day out at the hands of sick perverts. Frankly, I don't care what desires a sick paedo has, it's not to be accommodated in society, at least not in a society I want to be part of.

    Serial killers probably have 'desires', too, as do sadists, as do bestiality fetishists. Are these up for debate, too?


    You can call it no platform, or simply ask the question: What is there to debate? Paedophilia is wrong, damaging, harmful, and disgusting.

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  23. Responded regarding thagrote on wdy.. convinced he is typing one handed.

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  24. I'm not suggesting we debate whether it's permissable to have sex with children, Olching. You don't have a choice about living in a society with sick desires - it's there somewhere, wherever you go. I want to know how we can stop the desires becoming actions.

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  25. Fair enough, martillo, and I wasn't suggesting that you or anyone else were suggesting that something's up for debate. It's just that I would hate to see this topic be treated as 'another discourse'.

    There are certain issues that stand outside the sphere of debate. I think this is one of them. Leave it to specialists who deal with the questions you raise. Nothing productive or good will come of a thread on the society and paedophilia on a public forum like CiF (at least the way thagrote is framing it).

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  26. From what I can see from the chap's recent responses, it is veering more towards the "why is it illegal/immoral/taboo?" rather than "I have this problem and I need help to manage it.

    That is what I mean by apologists. He doesn't want a debate on how to address the problem, he wants a debate on whether it should actually be categorised as a problem in the first place. No dice.

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  27. "It's just that I would hate to see this topic be treated as 'another discourse'."

    I certainly won't argue with that, Olching.

    Agree with your reading, BB. I've drawn a line on it.

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  28. Hi Scherfig
    Good to hear from you. I look forward to looking at the animated Watchmen, thank you.

    I think Watchmen made a good movie because it was originally a strip. The great classic directors (Hitchcock, John Ford, Wilder, etc) storyboarded their movies which makes for excellent narrative force. So the director (who did 300- movies for morons) simply had to follow the comic.
    The endings didn't really work in book or movie but I'd have gone with the giant octopus...

    I think my depression strip would make a brilliant movie- action drama, a cross between 'Some Like it Hot' and 'Lord of Rings'

    So if anyone here knows someone big in movies, give us a plug, OK? I'll see you right...

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  29. Somebody big in films? I sued to live next door to Hattie Jaques' milkman. Will that do, Dan?

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  30. Dan: I confess I haven’t checked your strip in the past few weeks, but the last time I did it didn’t strike me as being

    *a cross between Some Like It Hot and Lord Of The Rings*

    It’s obviously taken a new (and imaginative) detour recently.

    Still plenty of good hash in Marrakech, obviously...

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  31. I say, martillo. Suing a chap because he was Hattie Jacques' milkman is taking things a tad far, isn't it, old bean?

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  32. Hi Andy!
    Sorry, don't understand your comment. What is 'hash', please?

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  33. You of all people should know, BB that we live in the age of laitigation.

    Shall I get my coat or will you?

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  34. martillo

    ROFL. No need for coats, that was a corker! :o)

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  35. But you're right about 'depression', andy.
    On reflection, I think a more appropriate combination would 'The Shining' and 'Porridge'with me being played by Bruce Willis.
    Brad Pitt was a likely contender for a while, but 'Barsteurds' sounds so utterly ghastly (LOVED Kill Bill) I wouldn't let him if he pleaded with me. I mean it. Of course, Depp's been pestering me but we'll look carefully at his popularity after this 'Rum Diaries' movie with Bruce ('we've come on holiday by mistake') Robinson on screenplay.
    Anyway, have to go as run out of skins...

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  36. BTW, martillo, can I have the number of Hattie Jaques' milkman's agent, please? Thanks. You never know...

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  37. here you go, dan Includes one of my favourite puns ever.

    Thanks, BB. And thanks for setting it up for me...

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  38. Andy et all -

    The poster over on WTYWT. is plainly seeking to recruit assistance to his cause. If you google "thagrotre" you get:.......

    Topic: Please help me persuade the Guardian to publicly discuss ... 3 posts - 1 author - Last post: 3 hours ago
    ... people who find themselves attracted to minors. I have already posted comments under the name 'thagrote', which you may respond to. ...
    www.anontalk.com/topic/34183 - 3 hours ago

    I can get my google account to work so I cant log on over on the Guard. Perhaps someone else could draw attention to the above.

    deano

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  39. I Can't not can get me google log in to work!!

    d.

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  40. Ta, martillo, you're a real tower.
    Whenever the subject of humour and nationality comes up with yer foreigners, the epitome of brit comedy seems to be Benny Hill. I'm sure he'd win every foreign poll.

    And I simply CANNOT understand why.
    Give me Ronnie Barker any day of the week...

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  41. Sorry for spelling mistake - it's "thagrote" that needs to be entered into google - seem he's got a youtube account too!!

    d

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  42. I chuckled, andysays. (Eventually)

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  43. deano,
    Just took a look, dubious fucker indeed. Wouldn't like to go from that site anywhere.

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  44. Goggling his name seems to bring up a fair few dutch sites. I wonder if he is the dutch nutter of a politician who wants paedophilia legalised?

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  45. 'grote' is Dutch for 'large'

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  46. Ah, cheers for that, Scherf. That explains it.

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  47. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  48. Shit. That scumbag says he thinks his cause is worth dying for. Well, I'd be happy to plunge a knife into his gut a few times. It might approximate how a penis feels in the vagina of a four year old girl.

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  49. The mods finally stepped in to prevent further fantasising by the hebephile, I see. There must be a god after all.

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  50. Complete slackness at the Graun, imho, first the Bea piece then this. I know they're hardened hacks, but do they have no humanity at all?

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  51. BTW, there's summat happening on the WDYWTTA thread - posts are just disappearing!

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  52. Evening everyone

    Have been getting ready to take off to France tomorrow so have missed this thagrote character - all his comments have been deleted from WDYA. Was he trying to defend paedophilia?

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  53. I only asked:
    Where were the mods?
    Why didn't they act sooner?

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  54. Hi Sheff. I just got back and I want to turn round and go straight back out there again. Lucky you!

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  55. MsChin,
    Mine too and I was very restrained.

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  56. Yes, sheff, he's a paedo who was doing the whole 'I'm a misunderstood victim' thing. I hope the cunt doesn't discover this site and others.

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  57. ms chin, they've only just deleted all his posts, and all replies. It took them about 6 hours, as opposed to about 15 minutes reaction-time on fucking Campbell's offensive nonsense. Some priorities, eh?

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  58. stoaty
    Yes, I noticed - admirable & very wise.
    Surprised there were only one or two threats/abusive comments to him on that thread, tbh. Shows how shocked we were, I guess.

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  59. sherfig
    Absolutely right, disgraceful that it took so long (especially compared to modding of other threads).

    It's made me really angry & I think we should do a collective complaint somewhere. It's first - I'm demanding moderation on CiF!

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  60. Yes, he was, Sheffpixie. Testing the limits of a certain perception of Liberalism, I suppose. Certainly made me question my moral relativism.

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  61. MsChin, it may well be that the couple of mods were thinking of what to do. I wouldn't condemn them outright. After all, this is a case that goes beyond merely 'dodgy political views', but is about a real, tangible threat to society, more precisely: to children.

    So who knows, perhaps they phoned Georgina or someone to ask what to do (delete, report, wait, act etc...)..

    I don't think we can compare it to the usual procedure of deleting comments, or the usual stuff that goes on; even the white supremacist arseholes.

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  62. Sheff,
    Have a nice trip, speed through Kent, nothing to see here.

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  63. If repeated single-topic posting on a totally unrelated thread is not 'trolling', then I don't know what is. The prick must have posted 20-30 times in a matter of hours, and then changed his username and continued - without even attempting to disguise the fact. He was certainly reported many times to no effect.

    I'm afraid that I can't see any excuse for that abysmal standard of moderation. As I said, a higher priority seemed to be protecting Campbell from harsh words.

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  64. In any case I've emailed the Guardian about follow-ups to this lamentable event.

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  65. Glad I missed it on the whole -I find it very difficult to deal with calmly, my response is so visceral...someone I know who works with sex offenders in this particulatr category says they can be very wily and manipulative and are past masters at finding justifications for their predilictions.

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  66. I've blogged about it if any of you can bear to visit my site

    http://toomuchtosayformyself.wordpress.com/2009/08/29/its-only-words/

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  67. Well done, olching - keep us posted.

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  68. Are we allowed to tout for business on here?

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  69. Lol, it was for the benefit of those who missed the debate.

    Olching, I'll also be contacting the Guardian about follow ups - I've kept a complete copy of the discussion.

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  70. Hi BB - from what you said over yon your desire to get back to France must mean you had a good holiday. Glad to hear it.

    Sheff - hope you have a fine one now its your turn.

    Frustrating not to be able to get a log on at the appropriate time. I always dislike a confused agenda and an attempted ambush.

    I have no problems with grown up people wanting to debate the Lolita story again. But that's not simply a storey about sex with children.

    I have no problems with under 16's having sex (the fact is that no matter what I think they do) - but in my view kids (<16)having sex should have it with other kids not grown ups.

    Actually at my time of life kids really means anybody under 21. But I accept that those over 18 should be allowed the benefit of the doubt and freedom of choice and action.

    I kinda suspect that kids under 14 at it, might benefit from a large dose of bromide (or was that an urban myth?) to deal with the excess.

    An unpleasant episode - perhaps those who responded to the sado might not have done so had they seen what looked a lot like a call for support to the cause when you googled his name.

    Fingers crossed this finds my google account before the signal hangs.

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  71. cath
    Thanks, I'll take a look at your place too.

    We need to complain, loudly & collectively.

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  72. I saw one of the Watchmen cartoons - about a bloke on a raft, undead pirates, corpses etc. It was part Pirates of the Caribbean, part gratuitous grossness, part Twilight Zone and part Really Obvious story. Haven't seen the live actioner yet, but if that's the quality, I'm not in a rush.

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  73. Just for your info:

    I've asked them to pass on everything to the relevant authorities. Scherfig is probably right that he wasn't using his home IP address, but still...

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  74. Alan Rusbridger is currently doing his Sat night DJ slot on Classic FM

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  75. Deano:

    Thanks for pointing out what that guy was up to on that other site.

    Naive fool that I am, I was inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt at first, but when I saw that, I started to smell a rat.

    I suspect that, whether by accident or design, he picked a time when the moderators were short staffed, which might explain why he lasted so long, but I also think too many people went on with him for far too long.

    We can't just rely on moderators, we have to be responsible ourselves as well.

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  76. Andy: re your comment on WDYWTTA - I had the same suspicion.

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  77. ...and still do (if you know what I mean). Think Fawlty.

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  78. ah you seem to have got there before me.

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  79. Hi Deano!

    Yeah, I had a fab time, thanks. So very hard to come back again though when part of me still thinks of France as "home". I have a lot of good friends over there and only get to see them once a year most years.

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  80. Fencewalker, FYI - the raft narrative is an important side-story which doesn't feature at all in the movie. The original comic-book is excellent.

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  81. I suspected as much. Well, we have Watchmen on Love Film order anyway, so one way or another I'll have an opinion on it eventually. Mind you, I didn't think V for Vendetta was as bad as suggested (then again, I've not read the original).

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  82. Well, seems like I've missed quite a bit whilst I've been away; holiday followed by work (you can guess which was the preferable).

    Has anyone else found that Cif is impossible to access over the last month?

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  83. I started watching Watchmen when I was holed up in a hotel before the hols and was actually enjoying it until my cousin turned up for dinner and stopped watching it. I have never read any of the comics, though. But I loved the film of V for Vendetta, which I also never read.

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  84. BB

    Great to see you back...I shall raise my first glass to you when I arrive en France.

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  85. Yeah, V for Vendetta was excellent. It's a bit of a cult film now.

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  86. Alan is talking about Al Bowley - a Dennis Potter fan??

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  87. Thanks, Sheff. Have a fab time!
    *cries into her beer*

    My sis and her bloke are off down there on Monday, just to add insult to injury. Bah.

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  88. Actually Rusbridger's show tonight might be worth a re-listen to on Classic FM's replay facility.

    It won't make him sound any less a plum boy - but you might be interested in the words he chooses to describe musical events.

    I think it's it not like the BBC Montana so if you go to Classic FM website you might be able to get it in the USA. ( I would like to hear what you have to say about Ted Kennedy sometime btw)

    d.

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  89. Sorry, Fence, I don’t know what you’re talking about...

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  90. Sheff - careful to recall them frogs have difficulty with the side of the road on which they drive.

    Enjoy - Where?

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  91. BB *cries into her beer*- what no red stuff from France?

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  92. Deano - I brought back a whole stash of the red stuff, but I know that if I crack into a bottle now I will down the whole lot this evening. And seeing as how I have been a lazy cow all day and done very little except post on the intarwebz, I have lots of stuff to do tomorrow which would be best done without a hangover :o)

    So, good ole Blighty's John Smiths for me tonight!

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  93. Deano: I just tuned in to ClassicFM to check out Rusbridger’s plumy tones.

    I suspect he’s done his bit, but they’ve just played Part’s Cantus (sp?), and now they’re on to some Webern.

    I never knew they played serious stuff. (I don’t just like punk fucking rock, you know). What a find...

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  94. Andy:
    Bah, I was trying to be cryptic in case any mods were hanging around. Your detective work on secret identities on WDYWTTA. Kapisch? (is that how you spell it?)

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  95. Fuck me, Fence, you can be obtuse at times.

    Do I have to put * ;-) * at the end of all my comments?

    Maybe we should go back and delete this exchange in case Special Branch or MI6 are reading this.

    Bloody big ironic ;-)

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  96. Psst.
    It's me.
    Is it safe to talk now?
    I didn't know we were hangin' wiv the MI6 crew. Do I need a code word or owt?

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  97. Hank Scorpio - why no long time say "passing by guys and g's?"

    Not all of us are on the phone although most decent folk, myself included, are invited.

    It's not up for ? be I decent or indecent - me son and his lass took a day out the other to crawl me around a long circle of real and superb ale.

    LordS - hope the hops were Northern Brewer at your real ale do today? Even if not I'm sure it will have been fun.

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  98. Chin - young miss I will vouch for you.

    But truth be known it may be to your disadvantage.

    Tell me the NHS view on bromide - if there is one.

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  99. Those of you who like conspiracy theories, and I know some of you do, I can think of one or two people who will have greatly enjoyed the idea of the untrusted calling upon the mods. Night all.

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  100. martillo
    The irony of demanding moderation on CiF from here hadn't escaped me, either.

    Night to all from me too

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  101. deano:

    HankScorpio is too busy toiling in his undersea base, formulating his plan for a takeover of The Guardian by a crack squad of Marxist Notts Forest-supporting Tax Investigators.

    He’s got no time for the likes of us anymore.

    *This message will self-destruct in ten seconds...*

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  102. Well I missed the whole WDYWTTA thread - so missed that charming poster but have just read some of their stuff over at Caths link - and kind of really wish I hadn't.

    I was so shocked that someone would write these things - and the whole 'poor me' tone was nauseating. Suicide would be too good for 'em.

    On a lighter note...I just watched The Watchmen last week and couldn't really get into it - I tried to read the novel too but same there. But I absolutely loved V for Vendetta. Again haven't read it but loved that film.

    SheffPixie - have a lovely time away from grey, wet Sheffield. Jealous!

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  103. Ten seconds - btrave soul.

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  104. @PCC

    I'd best get in first - that bastard stoat is never far away.

    Have paid attention to your writes since you came on here, I have enjoyed them they made me smile and identify lots.

    Stoaty - you's no chance the lass has a man from the stray - (Yorks equiv of Bath more georgian than roman but not far off)

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  105. princessc
    Put it this way, mercifully, the most shocking parts weren't quoted by Cath. At the very least, an editor should have showed up BTL to explain why they did feck all about it for so long, despite complaints.

    deano
    You thought I'd gone off to bed, right?

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  106. so what's the truth about bromide young lady?

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  107. Dunno, never tried it, d.
    And I think I'd get prosecuted if I slipped it in the old fella's tea.

    Really is goodnight this time. A hot water bottle awaits. That's how effing cold it is Yorkshire tonight.

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  108. Must have been a dodgy fuse. Sod it, the prying eyes will have done their evil work by now, let it stand.

    Fence: in case you’re sulking, I was only pulling your leg :-)

    There’s a certain fascination about some of those horrorshow threads. I deliberately didn’t go near the Campbell one yesterday because I was afraid I wouldn’t be able to leave it alone. And similarly, I think some of those who might have known better got drawn into prolonged exchanges with that guy today, and also over-reacted regarding tracing his IP etc. That's just my opinion, of course

    You haven’t missed anything terribly profound, PCC, just a demonstration that most of us have got some rather base instincts inside of us, even if we’re not inclined to find children sexually stimulating.

    And on that cheery note...

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  109. Deano - Ah the stray - lovely at Christmas with all the trees lit up. First time I went to Harrogate could not believe how posh everyone was - me being from Barnsley like and all that. But then I found out they have their very own trailer park - not a holiday one either - a proper one - and I felt better re my own humble background.

    What is bromide and what does it do. Will look it up before I go to sleep.

    MsChin - i sympathise it is brass monkeys - I am tucked up with a cup of herbal tea. Nite all.

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  110. @ PCC

    Bromide - I honestly have no idea what it is but when I was a lad I was told that they put in prisoners tea - it was supposed to stop them wanking and make the POA's life a so much calmer.

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  111. Nice fun little day on the boards then !!!

    Jesus CHRIST.

    Welcome back BB. Hope you didn't nick all their pernod !

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  112. @ BW - me fegging signal failed 4 times !!

    Thank's 4 Foot article.

    Head slipped a while back - heard him dead?

    At wedding of son's mate tommorrow - I expect to be poorly.

    Regards Deano - enjoy your long W/E

    Sleep rattles my..........

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  113. tomorrow looks a better guess at my hoped for spelling.

    Have fun. Sleep calls.

    Deano.

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  114. Nite Deano, have a blistering wedding !

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  115. During training it was said that bromide was put in the tea but I think it was fear that kept it down. The first time someone in our barracks woke with a hard on he ran around waving it and shouting:
    'I'm a man I'm a man'

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