16 August 2009

Daily Chat 16/08/09

Seventeen people were killed and 600 were injured when cavalry charged a public meeting at St. Peter's Field, Manchester, in 1819. A tsunami struck the coast of northern Chile and southern Peru in 1868, killing 70,000. The Klondike Gold Rush began in 1896, after gold was found in a tributary of the Klondike River. In 1962, the Beatles replaced drummer Pete Best with Ringo Starr and Elvis Presley died of an overdose in 1977. Celebrating birthdays today: Catwoman Julie Newmar, Trevor McDonald, Madge, Steve Carrell, Ulrike Jonsson, Frankie Boyle and Joleon Lescott. The lucky residents of Palau de Cerdagne, France, will be celebrating Xicolatada today by drinking hot chocolate at 11:00 am.


  1. ‘What is Freedom?—ye can tell
    That which slavery is, too well—
    For its very name has grown
    To an echo of your own.

    ‘’Tis to work and have such pay
    As just keeps life from day to day
    In your limbs, as in a cell
    For the tyrants’ use to dwell,

    ‘So that ye for them are made
    Loom, and plough, and sword, and spade,
    With or without your own will bent
    To their defence and nourishment.

    ‘’Tis to see your children weak
    With their mothers pine and peak,
    When the winter winds are bleak,—
    They are dying whilst I speak.

    ‘’Tis to hunger for such diet
    As the rich man in his riot
    Casts to the fat dogs that lie
    Surfeiting beneath his eye ;

    ‘’Tis to let the Ghost of Gold
    Take from Toil a thousandfold
    More than e’er its substance could
    In the tyrannies of old.

    ‘Paper coin—that forgery
    Of the title-deeds, which ye
    Hold to something from the worth
    Of the inheritance of Earth.

    ‘’Tis to be a slave in soul
    And to hold no strong control
    Over your own wills, but be
    All that others make of ye.

    ‘And at length when ye complain
    With a murmur weak and vain
    ’Tis to see the Tyrant’s crew
    Ride over your wives and you—
    Blood is on the grass like dew.

    From Shelley's Mask of Anarchy

  2. -
    I have seen the people ridden o'er like sand
    By slaves on horseback

    Byron, Don Juan

  3. Michael Crowley's cif piece seems to back up what I was saying about the anti Obama backlash from 'angry white men'.
    And I entirely agree with outragle's comments about 911, you won't be surprised to hear, Montana.
    What an appalling, dangerous mess the US is in.
    Come and join us in Europe, Montana- we have spare bedrooms in Italy and Morocco. But you have to want to do it...

  4. Julie Newmar ... sigh !!

    A video compilation of Julie"

    I'm not sure I will ever forget her guest appearance as the maid hired by Sgt. Bilko to look after Colonel Hall while his wife is away (about 1:14 in)

  5. Crowley's piece is good. Pity about some of the comments that follow, haven't people learned that MoveAnyMountain is immune to such things as the truth and common sense?

    You have to feel sorry for Obama and the Democrats. Bush spends eight years shitting on the porch, Obama volunteers to clean it up but only gets to cop the blame for making the mess in the first place.

  6. 'Opposition to YKW comes from ''angry white men''?'

    posed the troll

    'NOT trying to brand the disparate opposition as irrational and poentially 'racist' by any chance?'

    'NOT that He's a product of the Washington Federal cartel and closely aligned with the big finance'

    posed the free radical

    'and allegedly a 32° Prince Hall Free mason......?'

    'Big government needs to spend even more of your post- bail out taxes on big health'

    posed the second troll

    'bankrupt states with $54 trillion in federal debt obligations by 2030 need to spend MORE don't they?'

  7. LordS - I do feel for Obama although he must have known exactly what he was up for. This latest blow up over healthcare reminds me just how different the world view is there than in Europe - the divisions are so visceral that together with the gun culture it does make me wonder how far some would be prepared to go.

    There are serious vested interests in maintaining the status quo and they are very good at alarming the sheep.

  8. Agreed, SheffP. It's very easy to fall into the trap of thinking that the US and Europe (particularly the UL) must share common ground because of the cultural similarities, but politically neither of us has ever really understood the other.

  9. Have you read Incendiary yet SheffPixie? I finished it last week and found it quite disturbing.

    Can't decide whether I liked it or not.

  10. The UL?

    I meant the UK, d'oh!!!!!

  11. Incendiary- novel by Chris Cleave? What's it about? Do tell, Vari...

    Your post very runic, Anonymous- amongst other things, what is YKW?

    Absolutely agree, Lord S-'Two nations divided by a common language' said Oscar Wilde...

  12. YKW = You Know Who

    AVBP = Anal Violation By Pineapple

  13. Vari

    re Incendiary - am planning to take it on my hols with me in a couple of weeks. Have read he first few pages and it looks interesting although I suspect it's going to be quite grim.

    Dan - Google a synopsis as I don't want to know too much before I've read it...

    Have just finished reading Maps for Lost Lovers (Nadeem Aslam). Couldn't put it down, a gorgeously written, sad, humane and beautiful tale. Am now stuck on his writing and about to plunge into his latest - A Wasted Vigil.

  14. Hi Dan, its a first person narrative about a woman who loses her husband and son. I think that the word I would use would be haunting. Wasn't convinced by the end, but I'd recommend it. It ptobably struck a chord as I have a young son.

    I read the other hand a little while back, and its interesting that he writes in the voice of his female characters.

  15. LordS
    but politically neither of us has ever really understood the other

    Very true. When I went to the states I quickly realised there were things I simply couldn't say because they would be irrevocably misunderstood. Was even thrown out of a bar once for dropping 'socialism' into the conversation - still it was in hicksville so I should have known better. Silly me, teach me to get drunk and be a bit contentious, scary though.

  16. Silly me, teach me to get drunk and be a bit contentious, scary though.

    Thats a lesson that nobody should ever learn....

  17. Mmm- thanks for info re Incendiary, chaps.
    So Our Great Leader Gordo thinks we should honour our commitments and carry on fighting in Afghanistan. What a fucking idiot he is. It is an utterly pointless war and we're only there because the ultimate fucking idiot Bush decided it would be a good idea. Now the Obama fucking idiot messiah has decided to continue the war. We are ruled by fucking idiots.
    200 British soldiers are dead and for what?

  18. LordS - may I just compliment you on your most recent comment to BTH re: measuring the success of a politician. Made me laugh.

  19. Dan

    You'd think the Brits would have more sense than launch into a war in Afghanistan again. After all, our history tells us what major disasters were visited upon us last time we tried it. Not to mention obviously not taking note of the Russian experience there.

  20. Cath Elliott, Summer of Hate....

  21. @Dan/Sheffpixie:

    Let's play a game of "You're The Government".

    Given that it is what it is in the 'Stan, and we none of us wwould have started from here, so to speak, what are the options in the next two years?

  22. Wouldn't it actually make things a lot worse and result in a far higher number of casualties if the UK was to withdraw?

    Its a genuine question BTW, I'm not trolling, its very possible that I've been influenced by propaganda, but can a withdrawal be a real benefit at this time?

  23. Swifty

    Nice easy question for a Sunday afternoon, thanks swifty!

    I'm not a military strategist so would hesitate to tread in that particular arena, although I don't see quite how we can just pull out in the immediate term given where we are now.

    Thinking about the economics - lots of investment with proper safeguards so that it couldn't be siphoned off by this or that warlord/politician/gangster etc. Difficult, I realise, given who you'd have to work with.

    Agree to buy up the opium crop (can be used in medicine world wide etc) so that ordinary farmers got a reasonable living. Few other crops work out there on anything like the same scale and for those that might it will take time to change the culture.

    Beyond that - How do you bring together clans/tribes whose alliances have for centuries shifted with the wind and whatever is expedient at any given moment? What are the incentives that would work for them? Don't really know enough about how things work out there to suggest a particular approach.

    Think i might do a bit more listening and a bit less 'imposing'.

    I recall when we first went in that the plight of women was bandied about - nothing seems to have come of that and things have got worse for women and girls - and now they have just passed this husband's right to sex law which is pretty appalling.

    You got any ideas?

  24. @Vari:

    Re. withdrawal: possibly. It depends how it was done, to be honest, and what was left behind to ensure the Taliban couldn't come back. To most minds, that apparently means an organised, modern, efficient ANA. That's some way off yet.


    It's a problem, isn't it? Watching the utterly useless Ainsworth doing the rounds of TV Land's sofas this morning (which is what got me thinking about it again), it struck me he doesn't have a fucking clue. Nothing new there, but still, this fucktard is in charge of our war effort. As a nation, we deserve better than him.

    For the military, "hearts n minds" is apparently back where it's at. Google "Stanley McChrystal". He wants soldiers living in towns and villages, protecting the civvies from the talibs. That's what this Panther's Claw operation is for - clearing and holding the Helmand River valley. But the soldiers can't stay there forever. Someone else will have to take up the job soon.

    Back in the days of Empire, we'd probably have installed a couple of puppet despots with their own armies, re-drawn the lines on the map to make new statelets (Helmandistan etc) and left them to it.

    But times change. What Afghanistan desperately needs now is a government with the ability and the will to make the lives of its people better. But that is an enormous undertaking, and one that is currently well beyond our (and their) capabilities. We can't deliver the Wirtschaftswunder which will make everyone's lives better until the country is at peace. But we can't pacify it because we don't have enough soldiers, and there are men with guns whose worldview is diametrically opposed to ours who don't want to be pacified anyway.

    So I think we're stuck with it, personally. Doing what we're doing (small, temporary, localised improvements) is currently the least bad option. But only just.

  25. Re. withdrawal: possibly. It depends how it was done, to be honest, and what was left behind to ensure the Taliban couldn't come back.

    But thats the point isn't it? At the moment, there isn't much that can be done to guarantee that, which is where I was coming from when I say that as much as I hate this war and the fact that we are involved, being where we are now, I don't see many options. There was quite an interesting article in the Guardian a little while back where they asked different strategists and analysts what the options were. It made quite grim reading to be honest.

    Anyway, hope that you are enjoying your weekend sans family, right at this moment I am doubly envious as not long ago my 3 year old uttered the words to strike fear into the heart of every parent 'look what I've done mummy'....And now I am off to chop prawns into small pieces for a kiddy fish pie.

    Might open a bottle of wine, actually.

  26. Thanks, Vari.

    BiteTheHand wimply hasn't heard the phrase "when you're in a hole stop digging" has he?

  27. Swifty

    I actually don't think there's any chance at present of a decent government too many competing tribal interests.

    I think you're right when you say they don't want to be pacified - if/when we leave they will be warring among themselves as they always have been for the most part.

  28. @Vari:

    Yep, that is indeed the point. We'd be replacing a squaddie from Solihull with ten from Sangin (or Kabul, or wherever). But that's all we'd be doing - putting proxies in our place to keep on fighting.

    I think McChrystal has a point, though, despite all the baggage which the words "hearts and minds" carry. You need the locals on your side if you're going to take the sting out of an insurgency. He's got to be given time and room to try it. That's why I say doing what we're doing is the least bad option. It's still a shit one, but all the others are worse.


    It's not so much tribal, I think, as basic human greed and indifference to suffering that's the root cause. There's billions of dollars of Western aid money swishing around in Afghanistan, and for a poor official as much as a tribal warlord, their eyes must light up when they see what they could be getting their hands on.

    Anyway, you make some good points - and Vari, I'm away to chill a nice bottle of Pouilly Fumé for later, and possibly have a contemplative smoke in the garden. Enjoy tidying up the latest "art" - my boss' lad drew up the stairs with indelible marker a few weeks ago, I think he still can't bring himself to talk to him...

  29. Swifty

    One thing though - I don't think the British public will put up with many more of 'our boys' dying for much longer - especially not as there is not really much understanding of why we are there or support for the war and the numbers of dead boys seem to be growing fast. It many not be many in comparison with Afghani casualties but the last time it was this bad was back in the Falklands and we're unused to it now.

  30. Oh get stuffed with your showing off about your nice wine and smoking in the garden!

    How will we ever know if the locals are on side though? I've read loads that indicates they are, but again, I know that I am reading a not entirely objective account.

    Wasn't 'art' I'm afraid, I can handle that, I've got loads of paint and can remedy 'art' in minutes. For the third time this year he's given my mobile a 'bath'. I lose all my fucking numbers every time. I will never learn.

    LordS - he's done a great response to Robbo100's suggestion about Dunwoody's imagined response to his post. BTH, if you're lurking, you do provide loads of entertainment, thanks!

  31. Re withdrawal from Afghanistan:
    What is to be achieved by staying? It only makes the Taleban stronger by uniting all anti US feeling. The US has done nothing except alienate Afghanis exactly as the Russians did. Killing civilians indiscriminately doesn't make one popular. The US and British forces can achieve NOTHING except more deaths for everyone.
    The reason US forces are there is because Al Qaida is generally supposed to be responsible for killing 3000 Americans in 911 (the Bush Cheney conspiracy theory) under the command of Osama Bin Laden and the Yanks want revenge. AND because the US wants to control Iraq, Afghanistan and Georgia because it wants the oil. It also wants to control the heroin trade cos it's a nice little earner for the administration.
    British troops are there because the CUNT BLAIR was a craven US arse licker and Brown is now getting his tongue up Obama's arse.
    There is absolutely NO moral or strategic justification for our being there and we should leave forthwith.
    And even if allied forces did prevail, then what?
    The politicians should read their history books and realise the situation is militarily HOPELESS and will simply lead to more death although I don't honestly think Brown and his squalid gang give a shit about that...

  32. """""""when we leave they will be warring among themselves as they always have been for the most part"""""""

    historically carried out by spending all day shouting poetry at each other and perhaps an actual sword fight,,guns changed everything

    if we want peace we take the bucket of clean water (humanity) into which has been stirred a
    dye (weapons that allow one person to kill many and from a distance) and remove the dye,,(cannot be done),,
    if you wanted to kill twenty people two nundred years ago you got pretty bloody tired (!) after the first three or four,,

    (i am aware that gun history goes back further than two hundred years)(pedants caveat)

    i did once see dye unstirred from water on Tomorrows World,,

    „¿ƃuıʇɐɹǝɯoןƃuoɔ pǝʇɹɐʇs ʇsɹıɟ sɹoʇɐɹıdsuoɔ ǝɥʇ ʞuıɥʇ noʎ op ǝɹǝɥʍ puɐ uǝɥʍ''ɹǝʇıɹʍʇdıɹɔs ןɐɔıuʎɔ ɹɯ „

    asked the man without a pineapple

  33. I am touched that you 'untrusted' people find me so entertaining, but that is far from my intention. I strive continuously on Cif to raise consciousness and promote feminism, even when I am in China. Believe me, I take this issue very seriously indeed, and that is why I never publicly demonstrate a sense of humour (although my friend tells me that I am one of the funniest people ever!).

    The misogynism and personal abuse on these threads (and, of course, Cif) is very depressing indeed. Fine and honourable politicians such as Harriet Harman, Hazel Blears, Caroline Flint and Jacqui Smith are constantly smeared and ridiculed just because they happen to be women. And it's not just the testosterone-drunk lads here that squeal about feminists, it's also the female posters who claim to be feminists but in reality are duped by the patriarchy into a false consciousness. I really wish I could help, but it may already be too late.

    I have never, ever disagreed with a single Cif ATL feminist writer, even when they sometimes contradict each other. This requires a feat of intellectual dexterity which you people would do well to emulate. So instead of merely calling decent people names, you could address arguments logically by posting a lot of links to other people's ideas and dubious research. It saves you the bother of having to think for yourself (which in your case would be a desirable thing.)
    I do this often on Cif and it has earned me the respect of all right-thinking readers. Quite often my comments attract up to 5 recommendations.

    Right, I'm off to the gym now, and then a 15km run. I hope I've given you all something to think about.

  34. Dan
    Whats to be achieved by staying?

    You may well ask. Not very much arguably except more death, more destruction of lives and hopes. But given the way that things stand at the moment doesn't seem likely that the US and HMG will want to see the Taleban, al Qaeda and assorted warlords dancing about in triumphant glee, taking pot shots at our retreating arses - to much political face to lose not to mention other interests. Could be wrong of course. Care to put a quid on it?

    Bit of a sorry mess all round really.

  35. There's a piece by Paul Eedle in Cif America about the new US strategy in Afghanistan. I don't think I've ever read such delusional crap. The guy is clearly off his head. Anyone else read it?

  36. So we should stay because of national pride and not losing political face, Sheffpixie?
    I'm quite sure we'll stay there, probably for those reasons as much as any other but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

  37. Dan

    So we should stay because of national pride and not losing political face, Sheffpixie?

    It's not what I want Dan and no, I don't think it's right either - it's how I read the situation as it presently stands. I wouldn't have gone there in the first place but no one asked me.

    I'll have a look at that Eedle piece - doesn't sound very cheering though.

  38. btw - do you think thats really bth - or a spoof? quite witty in places, so I'm guessing a spoof.

  39. I am the genuine BiteTheHand, and I did not write the last comment. Although I will confess that some of the points made were somewhere in the vicinity of being almost reasonable. It was not, however, in the least bit amusing.

  40. No, I am BiteTheHand!


  42. Monkeyfish? Hank? Jay? come on guys.. someone 'fess up.

  43. I'm laughing so much you've got me crying - weeping into my 16 months big time

  44. He is BiteTheHand!

  45. No, she is BiteTheHand!

  46. It is a great spoof. Come on, who was it?

  47. We are BiteTheHand. We are legion.

  48. Revelation! Several commenters here even realize feminism is good!

    We are ALL BiteTheHand.

  49. No, I'm a feminist and I'm not assimilating wiv no bloke ..

  50. Are you back from that 15km run yet - in all that smog? Come on give us a clue...

  51. BTH isn't a person, its a philosophy, an attitude, BTH is a way of life.

  52. anon
    BTH isn't a person, its a philosophy, an attitude, BTH is a way of life.

    I bow in homage to your obviously superior knowledge. Are you looking for acolytes?

  53. I don't seek acolytes, I've chosen my path and I am aware that it is one which may be lonely. However, I go to bed secure in my skin that I tread upon the moral high ground.

    You might cast aspersions, but I bear with them in the knowledge that you simply do not know what is best for wimminfolk everywhere.

    Scoff on.

  54. I reckon it's the Cif mods fucking with us.

  55. 'BTH isn't a person, its a philosophy, an attitude, BTH is a way of life.'

    How dare you, mr/ms anonymous? I am the real BiteTheHand, and I am a person. I am not any of those other things - just ask my loving, sainted old mother.

  56. but anon...we scoff not...only long for the light you can bestow.

  57. thauma
    Have you met a cif mod whose that funny?

  58. Sheff - good point, but this is incognito. Who knows what depths of humour might lurk in the mod mind.

    And besides - if you were a mod, wouldn't you take pleasure in randomly deleting perfectly good posts in revenge for crap pay (one assumes) for a thankless job?

    No, I am not now, nor have I ever been, a Cif mod.

  59. Thauma
    I thought the expunging of any propensity for humour on mods when they are employed was a mandatory clause in their contracts?

  60. The absolute 100% fucking genuine BTH16 August, 2009 19:56

    'BTH isn't a person, its a philosophy, an attitude, BTH is a way of life.'

    Fools. You've understood nothing. "BTH...a philosophy" pah! There are books of philosophy, professors of philosophy. The very idea that I could be bounded by mere pages, words, text, letters, symbols...sacrilege.

    BTH is a state of mind, a vortex of righteousness.BTH is something you carry in your heart.To quote a wise man..and it's mum's favourite film:

    "How can you hold a moonbeam in your hand?"

    I am the really, really, real BTH. "I baptise you with logic, but one is coming who will baptise you in the feminist spirit".

    From the prophesy of Finn, daughter of the Wind. Ch 14 verse 19:

    "Out of the icy North shalt she approach, her sleigh drawn by a snow white reindeer. And her gaze will bring torment and pestilence on the non-believer. Repenteth now and make the sign of thy contrition. Bow down before me and tremble or the wrath of the ice queen shall be thine inheritance."

  61. Methinks BTH has been overdoing the Narnia books lately. Little Edmund that he is: some Turkish Delight, my son? It will help you unto the course of righteous feminist thinking. Excuse me while I turn a cuddly widdle bunny into stone.

  62. The absolute 100% fucking genuine BTH16 August, 2009 20:11


    Get ye behind me, back to Endor, demon witch

  63. Thank you, bitey, you're so sweet, but you're being a little bit indiscreet here. My work on Cif is not yet done and I am not yet ready to reveal myself in all my glory to the misogynists who plague the earth. I must continue to post misandrist drivel on feminist threads until all the men are so weary and dispirited that they will fall like ripe wheat beneath the red blades of my chariot-wheels. When that time comes, you alone will be The Chosen Male, and all will rejoice.

  64. Why would you expect to understand a culture unless you were immersed in it? Even then your understanding would only be superficial - and based upon perceptions singular to yourself.

    Aside from quoting Andrew Sullivan, "If you are an American who yearns to finally get beyond the symbolic battles of the boomer generation and face today's actual problems, Obama may be your man," (which indeed explains some of my motivation for voting for Obama), Crowley's article is crap.
    The protests are mostly a generational, not an ethnic, phenomena. Inherent in the American zeitgeist is the Jeffersonian idea that, "The national government is a dangerous necessity to be instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security of the people, nation or community; it should be watched closely and circumscribed in its powers". Expansion of federal governmental powers is viewed suspiciously, especially by those who have inherited, via the dated mentality, that, upon 'winning' the cold war, Americans were due to recline and reap the profits of 'victory' - which don't include succumbing to more governmental mandates.
    I support healthcare reform, but the campaign for such has been mishandled badly. Obama handed the ball to Congressional Dem leadership and they, as is their constant wont, fumbled it. The rush for bill passage without clearly delineating the details was a mistake - it's tough to support legislation which is not yet understood, and the haste smacks of deception.
    The Dems hold both houses of Congress and hold the Executive branch, still they cannot implement passage of a viable product due to their incompetence. They're as beholden to Big Money's lobbyists as the Repubs.
    Generalizing that disagreeing(even vehemently) with Congressional propositions is soley about 'Whitey' is inaccurate, and inflammatory - leading to disruption of the debate instead of enhancing it.
    When I have discussed this issue in person with others, the single conclusion upon which all can agree is that, "Washington will only fuck it up worse". It's not that people want others to suffer, or care so little about the poverty-stricken - it's more in line with the uproar you might expect if Brussels were to mandate Europe-wide health proposals without consulting some of those affected.
    Personally, I'm enjoying the Congressional members receiving some decent tongue-lashings, the sons of bitches oughta face the music.

    While I hope this might enlighten a little, I haven't the time to go into more detail - I have to clean my guns and stock up on ammo.


  65. TA100%FGBTH:

    Minion! The Ice Queen doth not follow anyone, least of all a snivelling sycophant who art a ... a ... male thing! Begone from our sight, or we shall smite thee!


    Thou art a good servant and it is meet that thou shouldst thus entice the phallically-blighted drones. Just be sure that thou dost not fall for thine own drivel.

  66. 9milerancher - nice to see you on here.

    Having been immersed in US culture for many years I think I can say that Sullivan has a certain point.

    On the other hand, the points you raise (particularly party funding) have just as much - probably more - validity, but putting in a balanced point of view wouldn't make nearly as good a newspaper column, would it?

    However, when I was living in the States, I was completely gobsmacked by the "just let the poor starve; they deserve it" attitude. I found it to be nearly universal, even with so-called leftists.

  67. Look here, I am getting a little bit pissed off with this.

    I am a FEMINIST. I deserve some respect and regard, don't you bitches realise the lengths I go to on your behalf? Whilst you're going about your everyday lives raising children, doing jobs and managing the home I AM FIGHTING FOR YOUR RIGHT TO DO IT. True, my selfless efforts have gained me not ONE SHAG. True, I am am ridiculed, but do I BACK DOWN? NO. I will continue to fight the fight and fuck the rest of you.

    Signing off, the REAL BITETHEHAND

  68. Andrea Dworkin16 August, 2009 20:38

    I've seen the light. All you silly little feminists should give it up and get back to cooking in the kitchen and whoring in the bedroom. You know we love it really.

  69. Emily Pankhurst16 August, 2009 20:39

    What's more, we should never have been given the vote either.

  70. 9milerancher (if it is indeed you)
    Greetings - you'll have to forgive us we're having some identity probs at the moment.

    The Dems hold both houses of Congress and hold the Executive branch, still they cannot implement passage of a viable product due to their incompetence. They're as beholden to Big Money's lobbyists as the Repubs.

    Isn't this a major issue - people are screaming about big 'government' but seemingly quite accepting of being screwed by the corporations, for example, in healthcare.

    phallically-blighted dronesThats hilarious - do you mind if I pinch it?

  71. To our humble slave sheffpixie:

    As thy superior discernment clearly marks you out as a Woman, thou mayst appropriate our phrase so long as thou dost follow it with the proper acknowledgement: "courtesy of our dread, omnipotent yet overwhelmingly beauteous Queen, Jadis, Empress of All".

  72. What in the blue FUCK is going on around here ?!!!

    Heh heh.

  73. Look at me. I soon tired of a life of feminism and lesbians on Amazon Island so I flew to America in my invisible plane to find myself a man and I've never once regretted it.

  74. I flew to Lesbos and all I got was this lousy tee shirt.....

  75. Hiya BW - please get over to Bowie thread and answer burning questions!

  76. Yeah oh beauteous Queen Jadis, Empress of All, I kneel at your feet...humble, doubly humble penitent that I am.

    anon; Mykinos is the place these days, so I'm told.

  77. Bitterweed

    Don't ask me - haven't a clue, just going with the flow.

  78. Woman must write herself; must write about women to writing, from which they have been driven away as violently as from their bodies - for the same reasons, by the same law, with the same fatal goal. So fuck off and mind your business, BiteTheHand.

  79. Sheffpixie: thy place is assuréd in the Feminist pantheon of humble servants. Unless thou pissest us off between now and then.

    Anonymous who signest itself as the real BITETHEHAND:

    Surely thou canst not be a Feminist. Thy language be foul, such as my Great Auntie Lily White wouldst never have put up with. The honoured lady would have bestowed thee with a right clip around the ears and a mouth full of soap.

    Furthermore, whilst we do not entirely understand the meaning of the word SHAG, we are given to understand that it is a base act of infamy perpetrated by the male unto the holy Female. As such we cannot countenance any sort of disgusting action of that kind.

    Thou'rt banned from the Feminist Sisterhood.

  80. Right. Listen up Philistine UT scum

    It really is me this time.

    You mock me, but your feeble attempts expose you for the impotent misogynist heathens that you are.

    Ulthima revealed to me long ago, in the time of the first Patriarchal dynasty, that I must bide my time and wait for the coming of She who must not be named. Now the moment is at hand and still you mock me. You shall soon laugh no longer.

    Once I'm revealed in all my majesty to prepare for her coming, you shall bow down before me; body of a Greek god and hung like a cart horse. Women shall throw themselves at me and offer all the riches of the world just to touch the elastic of my divine Y fronts. But I will cast them away. I have saved myself for the one.

    I will not waste my seed on those impure sluts whose minds have been polluted by the menz. Mum always said I should wait for a nice girl but even she could never imagine the perfect paradigm of womanhood that would finally taste the power of her only son's powerful loins. In that moment my life shall find its purpose and once the vicelike grip of those Finnish jaws grip my eager neck and send me to paradise, there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth around here, as the feminist spirit fills the righteous and sends you lot into the firey furnace of Dworkin.

  81. BTH - does this paradigm of womanhood resemble your mum, by any chance?

  82. Stop, please stop!...am wetting myself here...which means more scourgings to keep myself pure for service to Queen Jadis.

  83. Loyal slave Sheffpixie: 'tis only right that thou shouldst anoint thyself in contemplation of thy Feminist Overlady.

    Scourging is a recommended practice also and one that the heretic BiteTheHand shouldst be well advised to follow in order to drive out the evil that is his worship of far lesser deities.

  84. You're so cruel. Poor BTH. I hope you're all ashamed...

  85. damagedoor
    You're so cruel. Poor BTH. I hope you're all ashamed...

    We are DD, we are...what do you think all the scourging and penitence is about.

  86. Someone bottle this please...

  87. Thanks for the welcome thauma and sheffpixie.

    I live near the Crow Indian Reservation - where unemployment is around 60%. The largest city in Montana(Billings, pop. 90.000) lies within a neighboring county and recently had the lowest unemployment rate in the US. I think we can extrapolate from that situation that some will choose to live beneath the poverty level instead of taking the initiative to travel less than an hour to secure employment. I don't choose to condemn those that prefer to remain on the Rez; the culture is different and expectations for men to be the breadwinner or even contribute financially are not the same, yet my compassion is limited. Why? They have the same equality of opportunity as do I - or better even, such as: no state income or property taxes, positive discrimination for school admission and job opportunities(from a link off CiF mainpage for a job in Crow Agency, "INDIAN PREFERENCE: Preference in filling vacancies is given to qualified Indian candidates in accordance with the Indian Preference Act of 1934"), free healthcare via the IHS(indian health service), etc. I could go on, but I don't want to appear as if I'm offering a diatribe about NA's, for pete's sake I married one and my biological children are of mixed ethnicity, and my adopted children are enrolled tribal members and they have/will take advantage of their tribal affiliations.
    My point is that not all those who are poor or are on the dole are there because they are less fortunate - in fact it's their good fortune that enables their lower economic status. And contrary to what you may read, no-one's going hungry - for crying out loud the Foodstamp Program pays for Pepsi and Frito Lays, so it's not they're without luxuries either. The same sentiment holds for many of those in this country who are now facing foreclosure - they climbed on the property ladder with little to no down payment expecting to reap a huge profit through a resale but the market went to hell - leaving those of us who acted responsibly and didn't stick our neck out with the expectation we should bail out the mortgage bankers.
    I'm not a Hobbesian, but I expect that when people make poor decisions they may well have to face the consequences.
    Much of the outrage expressed by the people at these townhall meetings of ill-repute is generated by sentiments such as this. The leadership of this country with their removal of the Glass-Steagal act and their robbing Social Security to pay for Medicare, etc. and ad infinitum should have their toes held to the fire. Our leaders have failed us, and by extension all those who have become dependent on the American economy for their wellbeing.
    The answer isn't giving these same assholes more power over our personal lives, but instead holding them to account for their mismanagement of the economy and foreign policy for so damned long.
    Anyway, I just dropped by because I was bored, killing time until dinner was ready. Thanks for the hospitality.


  88. I thought that was part of the piss-take? Because, in all sincerity, I imagine BTH - when not at the computer - sits whipping himself like the monk in The Name of the Rose.

  89. 9milerancher

    There is masses to discuss in your post. Unfortunately you picked a night when everyone has gone all Monty Python.

    Please do come back and talk again when people are sober and not in such a surreal mood.

  90. 9mile: tired and off to bed in a minute, but I can understand frustration at people living off the state: I feel it myself sometimes, but again, what are you going to do? Cut them off and let them die?

    My anger is much more directed against bankers and politicians who are also taking huge amounts of money off the taxpayer, but who don't have any mitigating reasons for doing so.

  91. I see BTH978s been busy


  92. 9mile: welcome to the UT.
    And forgive my ignorance, but what are Frito Lays?

  93. Wecome, 9mile. I've always enjoyed your posts; even those I disagree with.

    Whoever did the BTH spoof: you were a little unfair about the sense of humour. (S)he came up with a gem on the Rafael Behr thread:

    And I thought that Alton Towers was where you could get the best ride in the country.


  94. BiteTheHand (the real one this time)16 August, 2009 23:12

    Right that's it. I'm sick of you all pretending to be me. I'm changing my name....to Susan.

  95. *Sigh* I was banging my head on the desk because of a bunch of right-wingers on Cif and you lot were having fun over here. Serves me right, I guess.

    Hey 9mile! Good to see you 'round these parts.

  96. Is it over now - have the various bth's and queens gone to bed? is it safe to come back - I laughed so hard I now ache all over.

    Poor old 9miler - choosing tonight of all nights - I hope we haven't frightened him off.

  97. OMG!

    I have two questions-

    1) what are you all on?
    2) Can I have some? ;)