28 August 2009

Daily Chat 28/08/09

The Third Siege of Acre began on this day in 1189. A fourteen year-old black boy from Chicago named Emmett Till was murdered in Mississippi for allegedly whistling at a white woman in 1955. His mother insisted on an open casket funeral to show the world the brutality of the attack. The incident helped galvanise the Civil Rights Movement. In 1963, Martin Luther King, Jr. gave his "I Have a Dream" speech on the Mall in Washington, D.C.

Another day of decidedly D-list living celebs. If Goethe were still alive, he'd be turning 260 today. Leo Tolstoy would be celebrating his 181st. It is the feast day of St. Augustine of Hippo.


  1. The Death of Emmett Till

    Does anyone know if it’s a coincidence that MLK gave his great speech exactly eight years later?

    I Have A Dream

    Glad to see you’re up and about and posting on Cif Anne.

    That nursing thread gets my vote for thread of the day.

  2. According to several chroniclers of the civil rights movement and military historians (such as Stephen Ambrose), the post-war impetus for civil rights came from US blacks stationed in Britain during WWII. US censors reported their concerns about the letters home from black soldiers expressing their surprise and delight at being treated like human beings for the first time by white people.

    Emmet Till's death and the farcical trial of his killers was a real watershed no doubt; from that point on, it was clear even in the south, whose side history was on.

  3. And what if scientists declared beyond the shade of any doubt that the whole humankind descended from Africans, from Black people?

    Dentists would have a cascade of income out of replacing dentures because of the generalised roar.

  4. Jose,

    scientists have declared it as much as they're going to: nothings ever 100% in science, we're a cautious bunch!

  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

  6. Whoops..

    Delete Comment From: The Untrusted

    Blogger monkeyfish said...

    Slavishly sychophantic post from Benjine on the WDY...thread, praising Bezdomny's highly subjective notion on the Ted Kennedy thread..

    "It would be an interesting psychological study, for every million people who read the article, 100 will comment, and yet the average attitude expressed tends to be about 1000 standard deviations from the median opinion."

    On what fuckin basis etc?

    Is there anything at all to suggest that posters constitute anything other than a wholly representative sample of views? Maybe, you could argue that posters are more likely to fall into a personality sub-group that could be labelled 'opinionated' or even gobby, but why would that have any bearing on the actual content of that opinion. Poor style and logic all round..

    Benjine goes on to remind us..

    "Posters with a nice fat blue "G" against their names were literally queuing up to buy bezdomny a drink."

    Well surprise fuckin surprise..

    Guardian journos yearning for the good old days when the paucity of their views and writing went unchallenged and they could persist in the delusion that they retained some degree of respect; authority even.

    "Ooooh, mummy... they're being nasty...they don't like me...put the lid back on the box and make them go away" FFS!

    Too late...as long as there's an online Graun, even if they removed comments, sites would spring up to challenge any stupidity, bias and pretension on display. Since we can confidently suppose the "stupidity, bias and pretension" will be around for the foreseeable future, it's a case of...basically: Tough Shit!

    Someone ought to give that Benjine a slap.


    Cheers for the pro-polecat plug. Meerkats...fuckin splitters

  7. Yeah, fish, it was amusing to see how quickly the big blue C's rushed in to praise Bezdomny. It was Jessica Reed's 'best comment of the day'. Why does that not surprise me?

    As to meerkats being splitters, unfortunately it's in their nature. A group of meerkats is called a "mob", "gang" or "clan". They often evict females from the group and are known to kill each others' young.

  8. Meerkats have a 'community' polecats merely an unpleasant pong.


  9. Who's Bezdomny? Means "homeless" in Russian, but what's so special about him?

  10. *opinionated*?



    You're lucky this isn't Cif, Monkeyfish, or I'd be reporting you to the Community Censor for deletion and re-education.

    *Mummy, the nasty boy said a nasty thing... Kill him for me*

  11. Mustela putorius28 August, 2009 10:35

    Don't believe the propaganda, all that "cute" sitting up on their hind legs on nature programmes. Now the ad campaign (pretending to be about car insurance, pah). They want world domination, and we're the only ones who can stop them!

  12. Mustela/Charlie:

    You should go back with that one. I bet no one @ Cif knows what it means

    (I had to confirm my suspicion. Dot would have got it straight away - bloody geek!)

  13. Mustela..
    Your mum was a ferret.

  14. And your father smelt of elderberries.

  15. I see ITV have remade Wuthering Heights and their Heathcliff just dosn't look right. Is it wrong to be angry about it?

    Also, for neither love nor money can I seem to find a chocolate aero in the shops. Have they stopped making them? The more I can't have one, the more I want one of course.....

  16. JaneBasingstoke28 August, 2009 11:03

    Oh goody, more talk about meerkats! Can I join? It's all I can ever talk about, and those fascists at Cif won't play any more. I'll be back later (I can just hear the bunny boiling over on my new Aga).

  17. Mustela putorius furo28 August, 2009 11:05


    And I'm very proud of it! Our crack resistance squad have been biding their time up Northern trouser legs for decades, ready to pounce!

    However thauma:

    Please don't spread that around, Dad's er, afflictions are a source of familial shame....

  18. Don’t do yourself down, Jane. You posted a link to MLK’s speech in a response to my, I mean traneroundthebanned’s link.

    That didn’t have anything to do with meerkats...

  19. @Vari:

    Yeah, stop worrying about Heathcliff's looks, it's the brooding man and his dark dark heart inside which counts.

    You girls are like so-o-o superficial innit?

    Anyway, I've been manfully wading through the WDYWTTA thread, to page 3, at which point I gave up. Did it get more interesting and was there anything I missed?

    And finally, I'm going to lob an error-strewn, incorrectly punctuated, grammatically iffy post into whichever thread Jessica "Doesn't know how to proof-" Reed is currently descending ex machina into, just to make her feel all warm and fuzzy again. Poor little agneau, she copped a bit of flak over her ignorance of Latin.

  20. Misogyny thread is still closed.

  21. I know, I was semi looking forward to a new adaptation purely for potential totty. How bad is that?

    As far as I can see, if you didn't make it that far, Georgina came back to say that they had reopened the thread just long enough for the real Peter Jones who evidently does exist to post a response. He said everyone was ignorant and I think the matter is now closed?

  22. @Vari:

    Is he portrayed as a bit of a dish in the book? I've never read it (not sure if I'm ashamed about that or not).

    Re. Peter Jones - ah, good. His article just made me think of Alan Partridge and his Ukrainian girlfriend Sonia - got me idly wondering if Jonesy's lady liked practical jokes, tourist tat and indulging in "cracking intercourse"?

  23. Swifty: you little lamb...

    thauma: I reckon it’s shut for good.

    Nothing more I felt a desperate need to say, except perhaps to apologise for getting brookthingy’s name wrong yesterday.

    Was that the real JaneBasingstoke, or was it a spoof?

    If it was one of you fucking about, you almost got me. I was about to post a straight response, but alarm bells suddenly went off.

    And if it was you Jane, surely there are better ways of cooking rabbit than boiling it?

  24. Well, on my reading of it, I would.

    WH is my equivalent of your LoTR. Think I read it when I was about 12 or 13 and just have to reread every couple of years.

    'Cracking intercourse' - classic. For years I thought that my husband had come up with 'a crescent of pringles'.....

  25. @andysays:

    ...surely there are better ways of cooking rabbit than boiling it?

    That's pretty much what Sméagol thinks in a book I read 30 times or so.

    Nassty JaneBasingstoke, spoiling rabbitses with nassty hot water, gollum.


    My (now) 94 year old grandmother watched Knowing Me, Knowing You with Alan Partridge and thought it was real, she thought he was "a very rude man, and I've never heard of any of his guests". True story.

  26. She sounds very sweet!

    My mum, who would have been in her fifties at the time (and can't claim old age), rang me to tell me to watch The Office - a good recommendation of course, but she hadn't actually realised it was a spoof.....

  27. What a wanker that benjine is.

  28. "surely there are better ways of cooking rabbit than boiling it"

    Try it with mash !!!

  29. Just had this text;

    The iaaaf has confirmed that the sex test row athlete Caster Semenya can keep her 800m gold medal after her father, Fatima Whitbread, confirmed she is a girl....

  30. Here’s one for Jay:

    King of the Swingers (AKA I Wanna Be Like You)

    Whoever posted this on YouTube makes the same speciesist mistake you did. The ALF are after him now...

  31. @Vari:

    She looks quite sweet, in a "little old lady Tweety Pie's owner" kind of way, but she's also quite sharp (mental faculties all 100% intact), doesn't have much time (obviously) for suffering fools gladly...

    Anyway, are you like two of my colleagues in subscribing to the "Gethin Jones is totty" school of thought? If you are, and you're anywhere near Leicester this weekend, you could check his arse out (possibly - it's a subject of debate here today) on his bicycle (should be a big macho Harley probably, but that's not very "eco" I suppose).

    "It’s going to be another action-filled weekend with Skyride Leicester happening this Sunday, 30 August. TV personality and Skyride ambassador Gethin Jones will join thousands of people in Leicester as they cycle through the traffic-free streets. You can also track Gethin’s progress on his blog site as he cycles more than 1000km to link to the four cities hosting Skyride events."

  32. No, he's a bit like a living action man as far as I can make out, not my cup of tea at all.

    And Heathcliff wouldn't get on a bike! He was a dysfunctional bastard.....

  33. andy,

    Thank you, you've just helped me clear up a childhood mystery!

    When I was little I was very jealous of my cousins' pirated VHS of jungle book, but baffled as to why that song was missing, I now realise it's because my uncle is obviously a member of the ALF.

    Of course his excessively hairy legs should also have been a clue.........

  34. @Vari:

    My colleagues Jane and Kirsty reckon you're not really a woman if you're immune to "Geff's" charms.

    I keep pronouncing his name "Jeffin" just to wind them up, it's working.

    And Heathcliff presumably rides a snortin' black stallion while his cape whips in't' moorland gale, sithee?

  35. Dot: glad to be of help.

    But watch it with the hairy legs “joke”. As I told Jay about the ALF yesterday:

    Our arms are long (longer in proportion to our bodies than yours, anyway) and our vengeance will be sweet, just like a mango...

  36. Swifty:

    “My colleagues reckon you’re not a woman if...”

    Maybe the IAAAF should use that as their test in future.

  37. Dot: I just hope your cousin’s tape had these, otherwise it would be totally pointless:

    Bare Necessities

    That's What Friends Are For

  38. @andy:

    Funny you should say that (funny in its own right as well, mate, obviously), they do also happen to have an opinion on Caster Semenya (J told a "dirty joke" about having semen in your name). In fact, they usually both hold the same opinion on everything, we call them the "Twin Towns" (Jane, Hertfordshire twinned with Kirsty, Wimbledon).

    It seems one significant thing divides them - men who drink alcopop WKD. J thinks they're possibly "girls" for doing so, K doesn't mind as long as it means they keep buying drinks for her.

    Youth of today, eh?

  39. Vari - were we blethering in the pub the other day? Cos I was mentioning to someone that I'd just started reading LOTR again, and she said her favourite book was WH (which I also love).

    For a minute there, I thought you were on about Gethin Jenkins. Dunno who this Gethin Jones is.

  40. @andy:

    Great film, the Jungle Book. My favourite Disney, I reckon.

    I think I'm going to keep up the reportage from J&K, by the way, some of it is brilliant. J's expressed an interest in putting in a guest appearance here as well, she is very funny. So I've just asked them - "Jungle Book - best Disney film, or overhyped anthropomorphic nonsense?"

    J: "Saw it when I was little - Imran Khan's very hot ha ha".
    K: "Cinderella is the best Disney ever, or the Lion King. What does anthro-wotsit mean again?"

  41. andy,

    Yes they had those, my cousins were jammy beggars as kids: they were also allowed vimto and skips!

  42. And what if scientists declared beyond the shade of any doubt that the whole humankind descended from Africans, from Black people?

    Sorry, but I'm going to have to take issue with this because it displays an all too familiar misconception about evolution.

    Firstly, we are fairly certain (as far as there is any certainty in science) that mankind emerged from 'Africa', that much is correct.

    But the idea that we are descended from 'Black People' is as wrong as the idea that we are descended from apes. We all share a common ancestor, black, white and every shade in-between. But that ancestor would have looked just as unlike a modern day African as a modern day European. We are not descended from 'Black People' in sense that is meaningful.

  43. Whoops ...

    We are not descended from 'Black People' in any sense that is meaningful.

    Anyway, sorry to get all Richard Dawkins on you, Jose. I understand and appreciate the sentiment of your post.

  44. @LordS:

    It's a subject that fascinates me, mankind's (and womankind's, sorry sister, erm, brother) spread from Africa to all corners of the globe.

    Are there any good, up-to-date books on the subject, would you know? Preferably not starring Doctor "I'm" Alice Roberts, cute as a button though she undoubtedly is...

  45. Dawkins' The Ancestors Tale is pretty good, though it goes into much more than just what you're asking about.

    If you want one that specifically about man and the African diaspora then I'll take to think on that. It's a bit too specialised a field and falls a little outside my main interests.

  46. Swifty: yeah they sound like a right laugh.

    More fun than a barrel of Hominoidea.

    I agree with LordS on the evolution/spread of humanity thing. We’re all descended from common ancestors, but we’re not all Africans in the everyday sense.

    And Swifty, it’s not quite what you’re asking about, but there’s a pretty good book called Guns Germs and Steel which I read recently about the past 13000 years of human history and why people from some parts of the globe became dominant. I found it fascinating, but also relatively easy to understand.

    And now it’s a video as well.

    Here’s the first part

  47. Thanks for that - although I'll confess I don't find Dawkins a particularly easy read. His books come across to me as the literary equivalent of having a big finger wagged at you.

    I'll order it at the library though next time I'm in town.

  48. @andy:

    And thanks also due to you mate. I guess the title of the book is the answer to the question?

    Oh goody, Jessica Reed's popped in on the Libby Brooks thread. See you in a bit.

  49. I've posted this before, but for anyone who missed it, it's good stuff.


  50. The ALF are nothing short of a terror cell, Andy, harrassing "hard working" humans under the direction of malign clerics like yourself. Awful.

  51. Ultimathule - Madonna fan?

    GO MADONNA! Especially smart and stunning and brave woman! A female genius of our time!
    Always ahead of her time and always ready to say the unpopular thing.Here's a true leader. I only wish the feminist movement had someone like her; someone as able to capture the limelight and to say what is needed.

  52. Jay:

    “hard-working humans”?

    Exploitative and oppressive homo sapianists more like.

    If it takes a little terror to bring about true Hominoidean siblinghood, so be it.

    If you’re not with us, you’re against us, and it’s obvious which side you’ve chosen.

    The rest of you still have a chance, but Reilly’s days are numbered.

    I hope you liked the vid, though...

  53. And just remember, the ALF is everywhere, even on WDYWTTA?...

  54. When I was younger my mother went through a phase of making my brother and I learn and use a new word every day. Thanks to CiF, I'm inadvertently reverting to this tradition, but I'm unsure where I might get opportunity to slip this one into my daily chat....

    one thing i have to criticise fay for is her total heteronormative women are married outlook.

  55. @Vari:

    Yep, agreed - heteronormative is a doozy, right enough. Fair leaps out of the page at you, don't it?

  56. I'm saving it for my next username....

    PhilippaB has made a very funny amend to your 'copter thingie.

  57. @Vari:

    She seems like a good sport. Unfortunately, that thread has just taken a turn for the worse, and will now descend into a thoroughly unpleasant discussion about rape.


  58. Oh dear, no doubt populated by a number of self proclaimed experts on the subject.

    Think I'll give it a miss.

  59. @Vari:

    Me too. Ah well, there's always Bea Campbell, seemingly the Graun's resident expert on child abuse, spouting off about the Jaycee Lee Duggard case.

    Word of warning though - any mention of discredited research into satanic rituals (or OBEs) will no doubt result in moderation.

  60. Swifty:

    “any mention of satanic rituals or OBEs will result in moderation”

    So does it actually say that at the top of the page?

    What else is there if we can’t do that? I can’t believe what she’s written will actually be worth engaging with...

  61. Maybe, but I've less chance of learning any fascinating new words on that thread.....

  62. @andy:

    I'm just guessing, that's all. May try it in a minute.

    @Vari: here's a good word.

    Hypocrite (n.) - person who pretends to be what they are or are not.

    Bea Campbell "I'm a Marxist".
    Everyone else: "No you're not, you're a fucking hypocrite".

  63. Ach Swifty, you just can't bear to see a strong and intelligent woman justifiably recognised for their contribution to uuummm......

  64. elementary_watson28 August, 2009 15:22

    You didn't know heteronormative, Vari? It's moments like thesethat I realise that my vocabulary is awfully or awesomely progressive. I hope you know at least "hetrosexist" (it's pretty much the same, only stronger).

    This (the realization of my infected vocabulary) brings a scene from yesterday to mind:

    I was talking with an actress (it's all amateur, just to be clear) about a dialogue with her character, which goes pretty much like:

    Male Character: Ah, Miss Johnson. What can I do for you?

    Feminist Character: Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

    I told her that I imagined her character enjoying these words, slinging them at a man to tell him that he is powerless to give her any help, which damages the male gender role for him and turns him symbolically impotent, and that her character delights in doing this.

    she asked me what the heck I was going on about. I said, never mind.

  65. I am aghast to admit it, but it was a new one for me, however I have led a very sheltered and oppressed life - I am, after all, a woman married to a man. (I may have even picked up socks, the shame!)

    Now I am in possession of this fabulous new word, I will be making damn sure that I am heteronormatively conscious in all future communications. Apologies for any unintended insensitivity towards this in the past.

  66. Jeez! That Bea Campbell article is as badly written as most of her stuff is. It'd help if she learned how to write rather than just dump a stream of unconsciousness on the page.

  67. Bea Campbell masquerades as an intellectual, but in truth there's very little below the surface, at least if she's to be judged on the strength of her articles.

    An odious specimen, our Ms Campbell. Truly vile.

  68. Bea Campbell masquerades as an intellectual, but in truth there's very little below the surface, at least if she's to be judged on the strength of her articles.

    You really could replace Bea Campbell with any number of the CiF writer's names, in fairness.

  69. Edwin -
    There was a similar process in the next generation. A lot of soul and jazz stars, when they came to Britain, France and (irony of ironies) Germany to do tours also commented on the vast difference in treatment.

    Re the Bezdomny thing: anyone else not surprised Andrew Brown was the first to say how many Grauniads wanted to buy him a drink?

    @whoever's granny thought Alan Partridge was real. At uni, our flatmate's brother was staying overnight, and they had on BBC2 cut down versions of The Day Today done as newsflashes. He was watching open-mouthed at the Tube Mare story, saying 'I don't believe it' over and over. Joy.
    Andysays: Well said on whaddya about MLK. Has the same affect on me too. He had such a musical voice. Obama seems to be trying to do an impersonation at times.

  70. @Fencewalker:

    I'd take MLK's oratory over BO's any day. At least MLK didn't repeat his sentences in reverse for oratorical effect (as ruthlessly parodied by Craig Brown in the Eye recently).

    The way King delivered that line "sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual: "Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!" raises the hairs on the nape of my neck. It's as powerful as anything you'll hear.

  71. Oh gawd... Lady Bea - The People's Bullshitter

    Right, got off work early to pick Mrs Bitterweed up from the Fracture Clininc (What boss on earth is going to refuse to allow me that in public health eh?) All good with the broken bone, x ray says 'cool bananas'.

    Now for a couple of cold ones sitting in the sun, start of a looong weekend doing f all. Cept maybe a gig Sunday night with me new band

    Brilliant !

  72. FFS - bloody Bea doesn't waste any time does she...she must have been sweating over that obfuscatory text from the minute the story broke.

  73. Now for a couple of cold ones sitting in the sun,

    Where are you? Its pissing it down here!

    Glad to hear the recovery is progressing nicely...

  74. Every time a child is kidnapped, Bea claims her £80. It's pretty sickening.

    I'm getting the right hump with CiF's relentless parade of identical identity politics articles. Now I know you might ask what took me so long, but I think it has gotten worse over the last few weeks. The quality of article has been pretty appalling in that time.

  75. Quite agree Swifty. Obama, or his speechwriters, aren't in the same league (though better than the usual run). However, he does seem to be going for the same sound - Obama trying to imitate the cadences, the lilt and the southern twang quite a bit.

  76. I be in the northants area. Mind you, looks like those cold ones might move indoors in an hour or so...

  77. I'm in Leics at mo BW and its not looking good...

  78. Lovely day here down in the South East. Bit fresh this morning, mind.

  79. There's been some really shockingly weak stuff on CiF lately. I think the Meerkat business is emblematic of a 'it fits the narrative, publish it' mentality they have. The potential guying by viral marketers is so secondary an issue it's off the map.

  80. Re Bea Campbell OBE, she's not just vacuous - she's fucking barking mad and has proved herself to be dangerous. It's a disgrace that the Guardian publishes her. And she's on the Women's National Commission too. Apparently she 'applied', and was accepted. Go figure.

  81. Would it be better if opinion pieces had to be footnoted? I've often thought this when reading stuff on CiF. Plenty of people have suggested ATLers lose their fees if they turn out to be lying through their teeth. A good idea, I think.

  82. Fencewalker:

    Your “merely catty” comment last night seems to have spawned a monster today. And I for one noticed it, though I didn’t actually press recommend as a result. Maybe I should have...

    Regarding MLK: when Montana (thanks again) brought it up, I had to check out the speech and share it both here and on Cif. It dates from before I was born, but it speaks to me in a way I can’t easily describe.

    It’s not just the words, it’s his delivery of them. Utterly inspired and inspiring. If Obama has tried to find some of that magic, I’m not surprised – who wouldn’t – but the little I’ve heard of him comes nowhere near it.

    You’re right to draw the parallel with music, that’s how it seems to me too. I’m sometimes sceptical about being moved too much by that sort of oratory, but in that case...

    Great speech, great man.

    As far as I can see, The Guardian haven’t thought it appropriate to note the date, which is a great shame.

    At least they’ve agreed with me about the thread of the day though...

  83. I'm certainly feeling over meetkatted today.

    Happy to remain a prophet without honour!

  84. Anybody notice that Bea looks like a meerkat?

  85. Now you mention it, it's simp...

  86. Been thinking about this Dawkins bloke. According to him there must have been a time when the human line diverged from the meerkat one.
    Christ we must have looked good then in our little smoking jackets!
    Much better than the blue arsed apes we became.

  87. Colin:
    Did you notice that Bitterweed has announced himself as the convener of the International Alliance of Voles, Stoats and Polecats on WDYWTTA??

    Does he have any proper right to make this claim?

    With your comment about “blue arsed apes” you may soon be getting a visit from the ALF as well...

  88. Scherfiq

    I think when the story broke some Graun bod thought "must get Bea to do a piece for cif - get those BTLers going." Its worked. Even Cath has quite strong reservations about the piece.

  89. Oh - the International Alliance of Voles, Stoats and Polecats - can anyone join?

  90. andy,
    Actually the weasels, ferrets, and stoats have left the young fool's 'organisation' because voles give us the shits.
    Alf are a bunch of wankers.

  91. Interesting report on R4, about Marianne Hester's research into perpetrators of domestic violence. Seems male perpetrators are arrested for 1:10 incidents, but women are arrested for 1:3 incidents.

    More interesting than BOBEs piece. You'd think CiF would be more sensitive.

  92. Sheff,
    Don't trust myself to do anything more than get the word 'satanic' into a meaningless comment on that evil woman's thread.

  93. MsChin,
    Doesn't surprise me, you should see what happens when Her indoors catches me at this lark.

  94. well at least it provides illusion of escape from real life and you can pretend to be a journalist. and of course its a break from the internet porn when youv wanked too much. x

  95. Been thinking about this Dawkins bloke. According to him there must have been a time when the human line diverged from the meerkat one

    There's no fossil evidence though. It's a mizzing leenk.

  96. Whoo! I've been modded on the Bea Campbell thread! What an honour. I haven't been modded for ages.

  97. Fencewalker:

    Even the thought of checking out the gaping hole where your comment used to be isn’t enough to tempt me on to that thread.

    Nice try though

  98. A little odd the one they chose to excise. It wasn't offensive, just a little mocking. Ach well.

  99. 'the weasels, ferrets, and stoats have left the young fool's 'organisation'. . .'

    What's the difference between a stoat and weasel?
    A. A Weasel is weasily wecognised and a stoat is stoataly different

  100. Sorry Colin, didn't think you'd mind


    Regional Secretary (Midlands)
    The International Alliance of Voles, Stoats and Polecats, and lately, Smokers of Badger Weed.

  101. Sheffpixie
    Can anyone join ?

    Of course ! Any one can - except Meerkats and andysays. The splitters.

  102. Often the way, Fence – it’s not the fact that they’ve done it, so much as the seeming randomness of it. Don’t spend too much time pondering the foibles of the Mods, that way lies madness.

    I’m off to rescue a friend from a dead bird she is apparently unable to deal with herself. Great start to the weekend.

  103. Bitterweed,
    Why voles for Gods sake? Fuck diversity. I'd rath have mongooses.

  104. This comment has been removed by the author.

  105. colin
    we area pluralistic organisation who respect diversity, so just do what I ask, ok ?

    Kind Regards,

    Acting Deputy Director,
    Diversity, Equality & Ermine Rights

    The International Alliance of Voles, Stoats and Polecats, Mongeese, Lemmings, Muscrats, and lately, Smokers of Badger Weed.

  106. Bitterweed,
    I'm not a rodentist, some of my best friends are rats, but I can't go along with this travesty.

  107. Got to get off the Bea thread before I explode...who is this clarelondon? anyone been up against her before?

  108. BW - I long for a peaceful evening with the furry alliance. Not sure about Badger weed though. Do you recommend it?

  109. Sheff,
    How you northern ladies love a punch up. I find it strangely alluring.

  110. Excellent !!!
    The entire London Underground Map in Anagrams !!!


  111. Colin
    Sorry, we cannot exclude anyone from this furry rainbow coalition

    Er, works in broadcasting/media - bit of a head girl attitude. I had a chat with her a few months back about the Today programme getting rid of Edward Stourton (She was in agreement that Humphrys is an irksome puffed up welsh nonce, or similar.)

    As for Badger Weed, it's a nick name I heard last month in cornwall for the 'rough stuff'. It's cheap and nasty, so no, I wouldn't recommend it really.

    I like carelondon's opening gambit:

    Bossy little hussy ain't it ?

  112. Bitterweed,
    Thank God you can't do links, I woulda been sucked in to that.

  113. Sealion
    Definitely one for after the pub !!!

  114. Right, Mrs Bitterweed wants to watch Shawn of the Dead now. And who am I to disagree ??
    Catch youse laters. x

  115. Scherfig,

    Thank you for the link, interesting indeed. Kept it in my browser.

  116. You're welcome, Jose. Lots of other great stuff on there - videos, lectures, books etc, so hang on to it.

  117. stoaty

    Remember I am passing through Kent on my way to France on Sunday - so watch your back...

  118. Trane - where are you?
    Murdoch's lad's written a piece just for you

  119. "I’m off to rescue a friend from a dead bird she is apparently unable to deal with herself."
    I'm taking that to be a wren or summat rather than, well, a Jeannine. Or are you living some sort of Tarantino-esque double life as Mr Clean-up?

  120. Bea Campbell - she really is too awful for words.

  121. Jay
    That piece should not have been published, imho.

  122. Ha, another no-posts-allowed Toynbee piece.

  123. Jay - am trying to get myself off the thread - what with B and clarelondon and ready to ignite.

  124. She should never be allowed to write about child abuse ever again.

  125. JR
    What really gets me is that people who are still experiencing abuse might read something like that & think their only hope is some random chance "single serendipitous act of imagination".

    What utter lack of understanding, compassion, care.

    And another thing, I asked a while ago on WDYWTTA for CiF to publish helpline numbers alongside articles like this. But they haven't done it, probably 'cos Rape Crisis can't afford their advertising space.

    I'm so upset here. And I've never been sexually abused, who knows how a survivor might feel.

  126. This comment has been removed by the author.

  127. Fencewalker: I’m back from my clean-up operation.

    I can’t tell you much – it was dark by the time I got the job done – but the "bird" was larger than a wren and smaller than an ostrich. Hope that helps.

    I’m truly glad I didn’t look at that Campbell thread. From the little various people have said of it here, it sounds like a fucking quagmire. Seriously, just leave it; it’s really not worth getting upset over something like that.

  128. MsChin:

    I for one don’t quite understand your post @ 20.53, but I have just noticed that someone called traneroundthebanned (crazy name, crazy guy, I’m guessing) has just posted the following on the thread I assume you’re referring to:

    *Yeah, right.

    It will be a cold day in hell before I take anything the Chair of News International and son of Rupert Murdoch has to say about quality news journalism seriously.*

    Hope this means more to you than it does to me...

  129. andysays
    You've been round for roast chicken haven't you, you old roister-doister you !

  130. Sheff,
    I fear your threats only serve to inflame me.

  131. MsChin:

    Totally agree.

    Something I read on a blog a while ago started me remembering something that happened a few years ago, basically my social circle slowly realised that one of our number was beating the shit out of his girlfriend so everyone got involved and did what we could to stop it. I then started thinking about all the articles I'd read on the guardian about DV, all the feminist blogs I'd visited and realised that there wasn't a single piece or article that I'd seen which would have been the slightest bit of use to any of us at the time.
    So, I went and had a further look with that in mind, did some light googling etc, and found an absolute shedload of ideology, finger pointing and sad stories, but very little with any practical help (and what there is often comes with some serious ideological baggage).
    I'm not saying its not the fault of the patriarchy, I'm saying that when it comes down to individual cases, its utterley irrelevant to someone who is trying to so something, yet the guardian is absolutely world class at generating masses of heat on the issue and very little light (I guess I'd make some of Ally's stuff the honourable exception), and some of the stuff I've seen strikes me as quite counter productive.
    Its sad that there must be so many people out there who are working in this field who have helpful things to say, people who can and do save lives, but to read the guardian you could be forgiven for thinking that the only people with an opinion were those with an axe to grind. Sometimes it even seems that none of these 'writers' care as much about the victims as they do scoring points off their intellectual opponents.
    Its really fucking sad, and I wish they'd stop it.

  132. Bitterweed: If only the explanation were that simple (and that tasty).

    No, I’m afraid that Fencewalker is nearer to the truth than you, and that no one would have wished to eat what I have been disposing of, unless they were very hungry.

    Your Alliance, Organisation or whatever you’re calling it seems to be split by feuding factions, by the way. Can’t say that I’m surprised. I’m afraid anyone who associates with rodents and other lower mammals tends to get what they deserve.

    Try sticking to animals with opposable thumbs, shoulder blades and a y-shaped pattern on their molars in future. A bit of diversity is OK, but don’t overdo it.

  133. Sealion,
    Agreed. Was the situation resolved?

  134. Sealion: sadly, I fear you are absolutely right.

  135. Heard the California kidnapper on the news, he sounds demented enough to write for the Guardian.

  136. colin
    Missed that, unfortunately.

  137. Stoaty
    A memorable romp it was indeed.

    Some good pubs round my way, if you're in the vicinity for the long haul. Mere miles away no doubt. Let me know

    Er, each member of my communitarian anarcho-syndicalist group is perfectly capable of better writting than Beatrix Potter Campbell, opposable thumbs or not.
    So 'ner'. Sorry about the pigeon though. Sounds rough.


    Anyone else been watching the history of Island Records tonight on BBC4 ? Great stuff !!

  138. Goodnight all, especially the various animal collectives. May we unite to make the world a better place.

    Can't get BBC4.

  139. "Can't get BBC4"
    Where are you at furry dude ???

  140. BW & stoaty
    Will watch it on the iplayer later. It's there for 7 days.

  141. But I have to confess to hating 'All right Now' (which is on the tracklist).

  142. Mschin
    Nah, it's the reggae and ska stuff that really does it... all the rest is academic. Great documentary.

  143. I think you're all being absulutely HORRID about that poor Bea Campbell- I think she's alright.
    So pooh.

  144. Colin:

    It depends on what you mean by resolved. The abuser married someone else (he did a short while inside, but got off fairly lightly, legally speaking), and as far as we know never hit her, and the abused moved to an undisclosed location with a court order barring him from seeing her. Whether or not she was able to move on, I don't know, but I doubt it. They have a link through their children, so she will never be entirely free of him.
    I would like to think that one day he will appreciate the damage he has done, but thats because I'm an optimist.
    Under the circumstances, I think thats as resolved as you're going to get.

  145. How about some VERY old school rok?


    Surely !!