13 August 2009

Daily Chat 13/08/09

Tenochtitlán fell to Hernán Cortés in 1521. Louis XVI was arrested by the National Tribunal and declared an enemy of the people in 1792. Nat Turner led a slave rebellion in 1831. Seventy slaves took part, 55 whites were killed in Southampton County, Virginia. The German Democratic Republic closed the border between the eastern and western sectors of Berlin in 1961. Celebrating birthdays today: Fidel Castro, Feargal Sharkey and Alan Shearer. Party's at Fidel's place. Today is the feast day of St. John Berchmans. Seriously.

115 comments:

  1. Celebrations have always been the main trait of anniversaries. I wonder whether they will celebrate Hernan Cortés in Mexico, whtther the Blacks and the Whites in Virginia will also on each side of their fence, whether the Germans have already forgotten their past differences.

    What I am most sure of is that Alan Shearer's birthday will be one of the most celebrated of them all.

    Perhaps if the Mexicans had had soccer those times, the problem in Mexico might have been solved by "home and away" soccer matches.

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  2. 'Nat Turner led a slave rebellion in 1831. Seventy slaves took part, 55 whites were killed in Southampton County, Virginia. '

    Want to recommend James Silk Buckingham's book about his 1839 travels in the South, A Journey Through the Slave States of North America (1842, nice reprint 2006). Buckingham was an abolitionist and radical MP for Sheffield, and his book is wonderful. One of the many vignettes is of a slave band in Charleston playing the curfew to call blacks (free and unfree) indoors; the tune they play, an astonished Buckingham notes, is 'Scots Wha Hae', and the southern whites are incapable of seeing the irony.

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  3. elementary_watson13 August, 2009 08:06

    Well, Jose, since today a movie about a political party which has "rebuilding the Wall" in their political program (it's satire) starts in Germany, the Germans probably have not forgotten their past differences.

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  4. Elementary Watson.

    Well there exist differences between people in all the countries, wall or not wall. The Germans are sentenced to forget those past differences and worry about the present ones, as everybody else.

    To anchor in the past is not good, albeit the past must at all times be lessons to be learnt.

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  5. Goodness and it is Berchie's feast day.

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  6. St Berchie's? How can we celebrate that? Maybe every post should include an accusation of Islamophobia.

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  7. elementary_watson13 August, 2009 10:45

    martillo, you only made that proposition because you hate muslims!

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  8. an obscure scots postman13 August, 2009 10:47

    No to ridicule of obscure days of religious observance on UT.

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  9. By the way, how come Andy Brown's moderation thread, has been largely ignored?

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  10. All these Nazi taunts directed at Obama reveal the frightening depths of ignorance in red-neck Amerika. I can't imagine why anyone would want to live in such a profoundly dysfunctional country. And yet I have so many friends who do.
    Would YOU live there?

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  11. Dan says

    'All these Nazi taunts directed at Obama reveal the frightening depths of ignorance in red-neck Amerika. I can't imagine why anyone would want to live in such a profoundly dysfunctional country. And yet I have so many friends who do.'

    In the 60s 'Amerika' was often used by leftists to conjure up a kinder US (Trudeau did a good 80s Doonesbury strip on the spelling) but now - as in Dan's usage - you more commonly see it as an indication of a right-wing US.

    As for dysfunctional I'm not sure. As a Scot I am an expert of the homegrown forms (Oh Caledonia!) , but is the US really any more dysfunctional than Pakistan, Belgium, 1960s Ireland or even Sweden?

    No to stereotyping on Untrusted! Let's hear it for the gentle Americans. . .

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  12. "Would YOU live there?" (Whoa! I just cut and pasted that. Well done, Montana!)

    I wouldn't, but only because I'm so in love with Spain. The thing is, we all live in countries which do bad things/are home to mad and/or bad people. If we start moving because they're not up to our moral standards, we're going to be leaving some fairly huge muddy footprints all over the planet.

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  13. Catching up on yesterday's thread....

    Jay

    I would be seriously excited to find a girl with an unhealthy LOTR obssession.

    *waves*

    I'm with Fencewalker in thinking that the films are crap, though. I did like the second one somewhat - it did well at bringing together the chronology of who was doing what when, which is a bit of a weakness in The Two Towers.

    The third one was fucking dire.

    Oh, the name you were searching for was Galadriel.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~

    Second the John Irving recommendations, and I'd add Hotel New Hampshire. Not so keen on his latest offerings though.

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  14. Thaum too? We really have got the finest selection of females known to man at this place.

    Galadriel, i remembered it shamefaced on my way home from work. Schoolboy...

    I want Caths statues. Cath, if you're around, how big are they? I really want the damn statues. I've emailed Griffin. I politely asked that when they deport you, if they could just confiscate the statues and send them my way. I sent a photo of my beaming white face just to reassure them that i was genetically pure. I'm confident. If not, its ebay I spose. Might have a look now. I really want a poster too, or a painting. Yes, thats what i want. A big painting of those statues. Does anyone know how one goes about getting something like that? I doubt you can buy them but maybe you can pay a lowly art student to do one? Ideas welcome.

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  15. The second film is the best, Thaum, then the first, then the last. I was gutted at what they did to the undead, stupid green rubbish that just wiped everything out. That didnt happen in the books, they fought, they werent invincible, they didnt sweep away all before them. Pissed me off. And Frodo and Sam, the hobbits are supposed to represent the Englishman, as far as i know, yet we had two yank actors, one with a very dodgy west country accent and a boyhood role in the goonies. The other, Elijah Wood, is a stupid, pasty little gimp, I dont like his face at all and he slightly spoilt the films for me.

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  16. @Jay:

    I've got the statues as well, in fact I'm looking at Gollum holding a fish as I type this.

    I'm not as lovely as Cath though.

    I thought the films were just fine, personally. Obviously they couldn't get it all in there, but I think they did a pretty good job (apart from Faramir's "conversion" to good guy from sorely-tempted-by-the-Ring baddie in the cave - that made no sense at all.)

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  17. I thought the films were fine too. I was particularly pleased at the lack of Tom Bombadil.

    He's not so bad on the printed page but he could have got rather annoying if you had to sit through two hours of him rhyming stuff just by suffixing every word with an o.

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  18. By the way, how come Andy Brown's moderation thread, has been largely ignored?

    Because Andy Brown is largely a ....

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  19. @LordS:

    I must confess, I tend to skip over some of Tom's stuff in the book, and unlike many LotR fans, but like you, wasn't overly fussed when it was revealed he wasn't going to be in it.

    I like the creepy forest bit before the hobbits are rescued, and the barrow wights are pretty smart as well. Could have done with them in the film.

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  20. There's a snipe at Andrew Brown winning the Orwell Prize in last week's TLS - haven't read the Spanish book myself.

    He can be extraordinarily irritating though I have to admit I found some of his blogs interesting.

    Re the ongoing LOTR stuff, I love some of the Donald Swann settings.They must be on youtube

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  21. Good call on Hotel New Hampshire, Thauma. There you go Swifty, lots of suggestions for alternatives to the 30th rereading of LotR. Meany should be top though.

    You people are all obsessed, almost dangerously so. Do you go to conventions wearing hobbit feet?

    (Please say no....)

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  22. I did not mourn Bombadil's loss either, but the barrow wights should defo have been in. And they didn't make Strider nearly scary enough.

    Don't have any statues, but I do have a really cool Gollum poster from the 60s (it was my uncle's).

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  23. Vari - no, I usually trim my foot hair first.

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  24. With that sentence Thauma, I fear that you may possibly have undermined your chances with Jay, on one of two levels.

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  25. Yep, the weddings off.

    Dont get me wrong, i love the films, have watched each of them at the very least 25 times, I really dont think they could have been made any better without being perfect. Just a few niggles. Was fine with Bombadils ommission, i skip some bits when reading the book, the endless poems/songs etc, just cant be arsed.

    I really want these statues though, and a painting would be magnificent. I think the lowly art student is the most realistic option. Maybe they'd do it for £200? £100?

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  26. @Jay:

    http://www.artistsuk.co.uk/acatalog/LORD_OF_THE_RINGS_PRINTS_AND_POSTERS.html

    Stick that in your browser and smoke it.

    There must be some risqué ones of elves shagging as well, there usually is. Remember National Lampoon's Bored of the Rings? That had some weird sex in it as I recall.

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  27. Thank god for that; I hate weddings, and being married must be worse!

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  28. Ask Swifty about the joys of being married and living the life of a childless bachelor....or having your cake and eating it.

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  29. Only for 10 days, Vari. I'll be expected to put my shoulder to the wheel once the girls get back.

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  30. Swifty?

    Although - I don't think "joy" and "married" belong in the same sentence.

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  31. elementary_watson13 August, 2009 13:23

    Can understand you, Jay. I myself would never marry a girl who would naturally have feet as hairy as a hobbit but choose to trim that beautiful foot hair.

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  32. @thauma:

    Mrs and Miss are away at Granny's for 10 days (took them to Gatwick earlier today).

    Vari's envious.

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  33. I think its rather more than envy....envy taken up a notch or two lets say.

    Not seen FrankF around here for a while, is he on his holidays?

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  34. Made sure they got on the plane, eh?

    Every day I love the fact that I live alone and no-one but me decides what to do at any moment (not counting w*rk).

    Well, the dog has ideas sometimes....

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  35. Not bad Swifty, I like the first blokes art, cheap too. I'm going to have to invest. I also found this -

    http://www.tolkiensociety.org/news/ted_argonath.html

    Now that is good.

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  36. Opening bid £500 Thaum! Slightly out of my meagre price range...

    I saw a beautiful chess set in Hamleys (i was dragged along, honest), LOTR, beautiful carved figures about 4 inches high and a nice table, cost a fortune though i think.

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  37. @thauma:

    If only Sauron had had an ebay account, he could have saved himself a lot of trouble and got his ring back (lot #5) for $500.

    He could have laid off the Nazgul and the orc armies to pay for it, too. The peace dividend, you might say...

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  38. Ah, Jay, it's only dollars. It's so brilliantly geeky that I think I want it.

    Swifty - yeah, I don't think those palantirs ran the right software version....

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  39. "Certificate of Authenticity" too - so it really is the One Ring! :-D

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  40. @thauma:

    Ah yes, I was forgetting, that was back in the days of dial-up wasn't it? When the Isengard server went down, you couldn't connect to anything.

    I'll admit, I'm slightly disturbed by the way this conversation is drifting towards Comic Book Guy über-nerd-dom.

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  41. 'I'm slightly disturbed by the way this conversation is drifting towards Comic Book Guy über-nerd-dom.'

    I'm quite enjoying it - reminds me of a sandpit c. 1951, everybody too busy gurgling over their new toys to fight!

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  42. "'I'm slightly disturbed by the way this conversation is drifting towards Comic Book Guy über-nerd-dom.'"

    Yeah, I used to think you lot were quite normal folk.

    Funniest bit of the film trilogy has to be Boromir spluttering, "They took the little ones!" There's something so funny about it i crack up every time.

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  43. This is very like most of my conversations with my colleagues.

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  44. "They took the little ones!" There's something so funny about it i crack up every time.

    Yes, very good. Gandalf's arrival in the Shire was also superb. Loved the French and Saunders version with a tellytubby waving at him, and a crowd of angelic hobbit children signing 'Grandalf, we love you'.

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  45. Unfortunately, I was born with hobbit feet.

    Right about Aragorn's lack of scariness (again, the cartoon was a bit better). Viggo Mortensen was totally miscast - and he bloody *mumbles* all the time. The only one coming out totally brilliantly from that is Ian McKellen.
    Don't start me on the New Schmoo version of Gollum!

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  46. Anyone got any views on the mighty Peter Jackson remaking Dambusters (in production since 2008)?

    My immedieate reaction last year on hearing this was, "Oy, Fat Boy, NO!!!"

    Anyone else ??

    **NB Stephen Fry is writing the script of the film. It will be distributed by Universal Pictures and StudioCanal. Filming will commence in early 2009, on a budget of 40 million United States dollars.**

    - Bitterpedia

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  47. Viggo Mortensen was second choice for Aragorn, the first actor pulled out, but I don't know who he was.

    My wife fancied Viggo very much in the films. Very much.

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  48. Fencewalker
    Mrs Bitterweed is besotted with young Viggo. Can't get the bloody remote off her for ten hours when we rewatch it...

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  49. Swifty
    You too eh ??
    Still that bint, daughter of the Aerosmith singer; she's not bad either.

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  50. Ah, Stuart Townsend, apparently. Charlize Theron's squeeze.

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  51. @BW:

    Oh yes. First time in my life I've ever played second fiddle to a dirty-looking hippy with a big sword.

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  52. Bitterpedia - like it.

    "My wife fancied Viggo very much in the films. Very much."

    My brothers girlfriend is also obssessed with him. Not sure why exactly.

    Dambusters? Good god man, there's the hobbit films coming out about the same time!

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  53. @BW:

    Re. Dambusters: Hmm. What are they going to call Guy Gibson's dog? Historically, we all know its name, but might be a tad controversial these days.

    Tricky one, that.

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  54. "First time in my life I've ever played second fiddle to a dirty-looking hippy with a big sword."

    She never met me then, wa-hey
    LOL !!!

    Jay
    The Hobbit, surely.

    I mean what's the point of remaking Dambusters ? WHAT is the POINT ?!!

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  55. AAAAGH! I can't BELIEVE you lot are still talking about fucking hobbits...

    Martillo: "The thing is, we all live in countries which do bad things/are home to mad and/or bad people. If we start moving because they're not up to our moral standards, we're going to be leaving some fairly huge muddy footprints all over the planet."
    All I was saying is I wouldn't live in America or even visit it cos it's so fucked up right now. It's a pariah country as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't go to Afghanistan or Pakistan either but that's because they've been fucked up by America. I didn't know that spelling America with a K was an indication of a gentler, kinder America- I thought it was a reference to the Klu Klux Klan.
    And I'm a great believer in moving around the planet- I lived in Andalucia for 7 years and eventually moved out because I was being surrounded by bloody Brits who moved there because of the cheap beer. What part of Spain do you live in, Martillo?

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  56. SwiftyBoy
    I was thinking Paki C@nt asd an opening gambit...

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  57. Hmm. I really am going to have to try to read LotR, aren't I? If it makes any of you guys feel any better -- Viggo Mortensen does nothing for me.

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  58. And DO you hate Muslims?

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  59. Well it won't be as great a work of art as the Carling ad -

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKHc-U2FNHk

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  60. @BW:

    Good guess, but apparently not. "Nigsy" seems to be the current favourite.

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  61. Don't bother, Montana, it'll drive you crazy. Unless you're fifteen years old... The best book I've ever read is Middlemarch.

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  62. @MW/Dan:

    LotR is one of those books which I reckon you need to read as an early teen. Then it stays with you.

    If you read it at age 38, say, you'll be bored shitless, probably.

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  63. Although I liked the bit where they went into the caves and were attacked by orcs after that octopus thing was disturbed by some dickhead hobbit...

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  64. 'AAAAGH! I can't BELIEVE you lot are still talking about fucking hobbits...'

    Or as C S Lewis said when off to hear Tolkein read the latest instalment, 'Not more fucking elves'. Sadly, an apocryphal comment.

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  65. 'The mines of Moria', that's it.
    You've got me started now, you fuckers...

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  66. Re: Spelling America with a 'k' : I don't know about in the 60s, but spelling it that way has been seen by most Americans as rather derogatory since the 80s at least. The implication is definitely of America as a fascist country. Radical blacks tend to spell it with three, i.e., Amerikkka.

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  67. @Dan:

    They're mines, Dan, not caves. And it wasn't an octopus - it was the Watcher in the Water.

    Sheesh.

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  68. Ignore the heretic, Montana, LOTR is a significant milestone in the cultural evolution of man. Between the three of us here, we have read it 36 times. You really should do it once. Just skip the fluffy elven songs.

    Bitterweed - thats a fine opening gambit indeed, also Joe Harker's preferred option, i believe.

    It wont just be The Hobbit because they are making two films, they arent exactly sure how they're going to split it yet.

    Pike Bishop has Minas Tirith pyjamas. Though he calls them PJs, apparently. He also named his dog Shadowfax, attempted to ride it whilst drunk and broke its back. The RSPCA reported him to the police. He was sentenced to a 6 month suspended sentence for cruelty. That is what his mysterious conviction was.

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  69. "They're mines, Dan, not caves."

    And they call this a mine, a mine!

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  70. @Jay:

    Re. PB: pre-coitus, he's often overheard mentioning his fine Glamdring, and opining that his mithril is as hard as anything known to man.

    Post-coitus, I believe he enjoys a pipe or two of Longbottom Leaf.

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  71. He wrote about his "Glamdring" on his blog, he's quite shameless on the subject. Though was it me or was Glamdring severely underplayed in the films? Disappointing.

    Has anyone done the colonial tour of the film locations?

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  72. @Jay:

    Has anyone done the colonial tour of the film locations?

    Nope. Too close to Australia for my liking.

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  73. I must have misheard; I thought he liked leafing through longbottoms.

    Dambusters: Apparently he's got three full-size Lancaster repros pootling round China for taxiing shots. He's an aeroplane nut - owns several WWI flying replicas in NZ. Might bode well for the film, though knowing him it'll last longer than the bloody war. As for the dog - there's been oodles of controversy over this; easy to avoid, I'd have thought by just saying "send the codeword". Quite a few people taking it as "more PC nonsense", but I don't see that the word itself is particularly needed.

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  74. Talking of Lancasters...

    2007, at Headingley v the Windies - during a slow period of play, there came the roar of 4 x mighty Rolls Royce Merlin engines, and right over the top of the ground flew the Lancaster from the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight.

    An awe-inspiring sight.

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  75. I think you're all drunk...

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  76. "Nope. Too close to Australia for my liking."

    A very fair point. I think I'd manage though. I checked with the Kiwi and the spider situation is tolerable apparently, unlike Oz. And there's far, far fewer Australians. I would consider it a pilgrimage. Bloody expensive though.

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  77. I want to look at the vid but cant, Swifty, though does ring a bell, beautiful planes. I quite fancy going to an airshow at Duxford, havent been since was a kid.

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  78. You lot have me lolling - every one of the last 15 posts or so!

    Viggo was pretty hot in the film but not nearly as hot as I'd actually imagined Aragorn.

    I must've read Lotr ... ooh, lots of times. First time at 9 years old, then every 2 or 3 years since. Someone else can do the maths cos I can't count that high.

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  79. We are not drunk. You want drunk, wait until this evening as I'm planning on having a "quiet night in".

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  80. @Jay:

    Shame we can't post pictures in-thread, I've got quite a lot of old ones my grandad took during the war (he served on Lancs and loved them) which I've scanned.

    He also served on Sunderland Flying Boats in West Africa (long range U-Boat reconnaissance/convoy protection), and took lots of pictures of them too. Especially at the end of the war - it was too expensive to fly them back to Blighty, apparently, and the RAF had no need of so many planes, so he and two other men were detailed to taxi them out into the Atlantic off the coast of Liberia, open the sea sluice, hop into a dinghy and paddle back. He reckoned they sank about 15 that way.

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  81. Take no notice, Thauma, I'm just jealous cos I can't take alcohol any more and I aint got no weed...

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  82. Right, I'm going to go and enjoy my new-found freedom by having a quick (steady...) drink down the pub with my neighbour who's also "working from home" today.

    My boss is now officially on hols, I have a song in my heart and forty quid in my wallet, and! the sun's just come out. Happy happy day.

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  83. Lady S and I saw The Dambusters in the cinema last year. You could have cut the air with a knife when the dog was first addressed by name.

    As a kid growing up (we're talking mid 1960s here) our next door neighbour, an old lady in her seventies, had a black cat. Can you guess what she called it? At approx half past ten the entire neighbourhood could hear her at the kitchen door summoning the cat by name. After a few weeks of this my dad popped next door and had a chat and the cat was renamed Tigger the following day.

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  84. You can post pics but you have to do it as a new article, Swifty. You can do what i did that time, post a new "article" with the pics, then just put in big letters "Pic only, do not comment", otherwise people comment, debate gets dragged across multiple threads and this gets far too confusing for our simple brains. Would be very interested to see the pics. The dinghy malarkey sounds quite good fun actually.

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  85. Tigger - could be the answer to the problem...

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  86. Not for a dog, unless you wanted to give it an identity crisis...........

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  87. ... but it was the bombs that were supposed to be bouncy bouncy bouncy bouncy fun fun fun fun fun.

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  88. Aw, Dan, shame.

    Swifty - enjoy!

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  89. Yes it is a shame. I think it's the yoga wot done it. More than one glass and my head feels like shit the next day. And what's the point of just ONE GLASS?

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  90. I know what you mean about parts of Andalucía, Dan. There are some restaurants which don't have menus in Spanish. A couple of my students told me they were refused entry, which may be a bit of an exaggeration but probably not much.

    On the other hand there are places like Cadiz...
    We're in Vilanova i la Geltrú, just along the coast from Barcelona. We're trying to raise the money to start work on our house in Galicia - a scary move to the middle of nowhere.

    I've only read LOTR 4 times. The films were good but what I'd really love to do is listen to the BBC radio adaptation. Reminds me of when a teacher read us The Hobbit over a term.

    I've posted a photo of my dog...

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  91. lol, he looks an earnest little chappy, martillo, how old is he?

    I met a very sweet pup the other day, boxer crossed with staff, very friendly little thing he was.

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  92. Aah, you should see the squirrel photo in the Guardian- CUTE!
    (I can't believe I'm posting this...)

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  93. WHERE have you posted your dog pic? and how do you know, Jay?

    Martillo: Yeah, well, Barcelona is TOTALLY different from Andalucia- a really great city although ruined by the monstrous Sagrada Familia, the most appalling abortion of a building.
    The costa del sol is utterly horrible tho Malaga's nice. And Seville is FABULOUS...

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  94. He's just 4 months Jay. More or less house-trained too, which is a great relief. Only one of his ears has become erect so far, so he looks even cuter now. (Me too neither, Dan...)

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  95. Dan - he's posted it as a new thread.

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  96. "And what's the point of just ONE GLASS?"

    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/G0OxEeieZrrkIVxwxBK8qw

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  97. fagged out pixie13 August, 2009 17:07

    Dear god - can't go away for a few days without coming back and finding the place awash with bloody hobbits, orcs and elves. See you 'dweebie' guys have been having a good time. Haven't read the books in ages but thought the films were good.

    Talking books though am reading Maps for Lost Lovers by Nadeem Aslam - it's a wonderful book about a Pakistani family living somewhere 'like' Huddersfield and facing life's grim realities - the writing is gorgeous. Like it so much have gone out and bought his latest one - The Wasted Vigil, set in Afghanistan plus another, (good old Waterstones 2 for 3), Incendiary, by Chris Cleave.

    Swifty - I've got some great pics of my great uncle Archie who was killed at Ypres. I inherited what was left of him after an aged aunt died - some wonderful things, his cap badge, war diaries, maps, kit bag, compass etc, even a couple of union flags circa 1914. he also played chess and kept a diary of all the games he played whilst he was in France.

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  98. Yes, he IS a cutepot, Martillo. I'm a sucker for dogs- really miss mine when I'm in M/kech...

    Yes, Pixie, I read that Maps for Lost Lovers too- very good.
    Alo great book is The Illusionist by... forgotten his name- Indian bloke who also wrote The Sorcerer's Apprentice.AMAZING BOOK. No, it's not by the same bloke. Fuck it, I'll have to get back to you on that one...

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  99. No, forget 'Illusionist', got that wrong. Crap film with Edward Norton.

    'Sorcerer's Apprentice' is brilliant book by Tahir Shah. BRILLIANT. About this guy who really does become a sorcerer's apprentice in Calcutta.

    And I'll read ANYTHING by William Dalrymple- He writes like a dream and we're both obsessed by India...

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  100. Funnily enough, I had a cat called Kiko when we lived in Andalucia...

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  101. Pixie

    You've got a lot of damn nerve, complaining about elves and orcs, with a name like yours....

    Nice to see you back!

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  102. I know thauma, the 'pixie' is the nickname my mother and i had when we were kids - smallish and darkish - with very awkward and bloody minded dispositions..

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  103. In non hobbit related news, Les Paul has died :(

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  104. No, thats tragic. My first guitar was an Encore "les paul".

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  105. Oh no! Sad day for guitar fans.

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  106. 94 years old, though..... good innings.

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  107. Although Tolkien always denied it, LOTR is a metaphor for Christianity, the industrial revolution and WW2. And probably other things too. JRR probably just didn't know that when he wrote it.

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  108. Tolkein ?

    You lot know nowt.

    Tolkein wanted to create - re-imagine - an English lore, history and myth that might have been, had the Normans not succesfully destroyed the English oral tradition.

    The Hobit, and then the Lord of the Rings, were exercises in creating a linguistic quasi-reality for this beautiful and bizarre intelectual fugue to be re-enacted under.

    He cited Nordic, Icelandic, German and Finish myth and legend to his publishers, but ultimately pursued, as an English (Emeritus) professor, the mad goal of making something up for us Brits which so many other European peoples took for granted.

    NB He was written to in about 1968, by a student availing him of the correct Elvish word for 'cow'. He wrote back "I'll have to find out"... aqnd wrote back a few weeks later after decoding the elvish language within his books and derived satisfactoraly.

    Hope this helps.

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  109. Interesting stuff BW. And welcome back Scherf - where you been??

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  110. BW Really interested in the effect of the Norman conquest on English culture. It crops up in Digger writings during the commonwealth period although there it is inevitably expressed in somewhat utopian terms.

    Any links you can point me to?

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  111. Sorry for not getting back, Annetan, I don't have any links, this is just stuff I read about Tolkein a few years ago.

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