02 August 2009

Daily Chat 02/08/09


In 1610, Henry Hudson sailed into the body of water now known as Hudson's Bay, believing that he had found the Northwest Passage into the Pacific Ocean. Tower Subway opened in 1870 in London as the world's first underground tube type railway. The Marihuana Tax Act passed on this day in 1937, effectively outlawing marijuana in the United States. Celebrating birthdays today: Alan Whicker, Peter O'Toole, Wes Craven, Isabel Allende and Mary-Louise Parker. It is Republic Day in the Republic of Macedonia.

167 comments:

  1. Here's a classic tune to start the day:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5dgAszVslA

    ReplyDelete
  2. Looks like it's just you and me MsChin. It's either swine flu or Seaton's hired a hitman. Watch your back.

    ReplyDelete
  3. This link is to make the site more accessible:

    Peter_Tosh

    which brings to my mind the old debate about legalisation or not of forbidden drugs.

    In my opinion legalisation would mean considerable decrease of crime, less damaging effects of the drug, stop the illegal laundering of money which is later used for legal businesses. Legal businesses that would belong to honest merchants.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Jose
    Well said, my view exactly.

    Nice Peter Tosh link too people.

    Here's Dillinger. The sun could almost be shining...

    ReplyDelete
  5. Monkeyfish; thanks for your concern.

    I saw a couple of people on the (London) Underground the other day wearing some sort of medical-type face mask - just "ordinary" passengers, I think. Has anyone else seen that? Strikes me as something of an over-reaction.

    Don’t Panic!

    And don’t worry about Seaton’s hitman: my Tottenham homies made him straight away and offed him quickstyle. Safe!

    ReplyDelete
  6. Jose - agree totally about legalisation of drugs, the country would save millions on prisons and policing. Also many of the 'problem' estates would cease to be problems.

    ReplyDelete
  7. andysays
    I heard he got proper shanked, breddrin.

    ReplyDelete
  8. ... agree totally about legalisation of drugs, the country would save millions on prisons and policing.
    I'm not entirely convinced myself. While I agree in principle that drugs should be legalised I think the situation is not so simplistic.

    Firstly, this presupposes that those involved in criminal drug dealing wouldn't simply find alternative crime to be involved with. To think they'd go legal is a touch optimistic, as employment legislation and taxes would mean harder work for fewer profits. Now, as the market for crime has become a shrinking one there would be more criminals looking at fewer opportunities. This usually leads to more violence so there's an argument that legalisation of drugs could lead to greater police expenditure.

    Secondly, when you see Frank Fisher and George Monbiot on the same side of the argument then it's time to take notice. I don't have the link but much sense was talked by many when they pointed out that this would need to be a global thing, otherwise you would just be legalising criminal activity in countries where drug cartel related violence makes ours seem like a couple of kids slapping each other in the playground.

    Great idea in principle, but one that would need much more thought going into it and much more global agreement than is generally recognised. If I were to legalise drugs, I wouldn't want to start from here.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Lord S the drugs could attract tax (after all tobacco and alcohol do) and the proceeds spent on projects designed to help people to abandone a life of crime.

    Rebuilding the very damaged communities needs doing too, it costs money, this could supply it.

    We certainly have to do something, we have left these people to fester for too long already.

    ReplyDelete
  10. When bootlegging become unprofitable in the USA the Kennedy's moved into politics not a further career in violent crime!

    I'm not convinced by the market style analysis you offer LordS. I'm inclined to the view of Annetan on this one.

    You seem to assume that the pushers and dealers (at street level) were born criminals and were simply looking for a criminal source of income.

    At the Mafia Don level I have no doubt that the crooks would continue to seek crooked ways of earning a shilling - but most of those in UK prisons and robbing daily for drug related reasons are not Mafioso.

    Looked at another way - if drugs were cheaper and legal and available at the corner shop users would need to do less robbing to get the required fix.

    I'm astonished that Frank is associated with an idea that would prevent junkies possibly getting the biggest and cheapest fix possible - his position would seem to call for encouraging addicts to overdose as quickly and cheaply as possible. He is, as I understand his position, all in favour of the removal of the underclass by just about any means.

    He believes that this would save the taxpayer and his pocket.

    Label the users or the drugs as "socialist" and he would fall asleep at night dreaming of ways to exterminate them. Perhaps I've misunderstood his position.

    ReplyDelete
  11. annetan

    Here's something to cheer you up. I've got a couple of spare tickets if you're interested...

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/5235358/here-but-for-the-grace-of-god-comes-god.thtml

    And this sentence for me is a thing of wonder. It's both nauseous but simultaneously strangely sublime through its sheer incongruity with accepted facts, logic and traditional notions of rational judgement.


    "Though in many ways Blair echoes Joan of Arc, in that he is alleged to believe God wanted him to go to war to fight evil, he is no religious crank."

    ReplyDelete
  12. MF
    Hmm, sycophantic

    Although he does finish with this:

    "I can’t recall anyone who has married politics and religion quite so effectively for themselves since Alexander Borgia and he became Pope."

    About the size of it.

    ReplyDelete
  13. I agree with LordS that the arguments put forward for legalisation are sometimes rather simplistic.

    Despite what Anonymous (not a very imaginative name, that) says, currently illegal drugs are unlikely ever to be on sale at corner shops – if they’re legalised, they’re only going to be available from pharmacists or through something similar to off-licences, I suggest.

    Although there’s an argument that the tax they will clearly be subjected to could be used for drug-related useful purposes, I doubt much of that would actually materialise. How much of the tax revenue from tobacco and alcohol sales goes to help people with dependencies on these substances? Why should it be any different for cannabis or heroin? It’ll be seen as a government money-spinner, pure and simple.

    In addition, once the government has whacked on a hefty tax surcharge, will newly legalised drugs really be any cheaper than their current illegal equivalents? There is currently a significant illegal trade in smuggled booze and fags on which tax is not paid. This is not just your mate in the pub bringing back a few extra packets of smokes or a bottle of vodka to order – it’s proper organised crime connected to other types of smuggling, including people and guns.

    The dealing of drugs by international networks of organised criminal gangs is not going to disappear just because they are decriminalised, anymore than decriminalising prostitution will remove the criminal exploitation of women.

    I’m uncertain about whether legalisation is, on balance, a good idea. My instinct as a libertarian (socialist variety) is to say it is, but I’m sure there would be some negative consequences too.

    ReplyDelete
  14. OMG pass up on the offer of tickets the mere thought makes me want to throw up!

    Also I have vowed to steer clear of that man else I would be in danger of committing murder or perhaps executing him would be a better phrase. Not because I want to save his life but it would be hypocritical as i don't believe in the death penalty.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Anon: I like your idea of “socialist” drugs though, and maybe “green” drugs as well.

    I can just see my local dealers putting that into their sales patter:

    “Support the revolution with some Trotskyite crack; fair trade skunk grown in 100% organic conditions”

    Sales will rocket...

    (All joking aside, it’s an open secret that the PKK is involved in heroin trafficking and prostitution in many areas of north London. Shooting up and whoring for a free Kurdistan. Nice!)

    ReplyDelete
  16. What about organic Monbiot-approved coke ?
    And porn made only with locally sourced renewable actors ?

    ReplyDelete
  17. MF
    I can’t recall anyone who has married politics and religion quite so effectively for themselves since Alexander Borgia and he became Pope.

    We all know about the Borgia's and popes - if you're up for a bit of torture on the side, machiavellian machinations and the abandonment of the people who most need you, - then yes, I'd say he was in good company.

    I'd have to sit too hard on my bomb throwing arm if I went to see the bastard.

    ReplyDelete
  18. oops - ignore the apostrophe...

    ReplyDelete
  19. I think the problem, anonymous, is that you have assumed that Frank is a bad man and therefore anything he supports must be bad too. I think George Monbiot is someone I would cheerfully shoot if I had to spend more than a day with him, but that doesn't stop him being right a lot of the time.

    If I may also point it out, not every reformed drug dealer can go into politics. I could joke about there already being enough criminals in that profession, but the simple truth is that there are not enough political roles and there would be no public appetite for electing reformed drug dealers.

    Annetan is closer, but I truly wonder how much revenue would be raised through taxing drugs. One study I read suggested it would push the price up well beyond what the average casual consumer would be prepared to pay and it would be the casual consumer you would be looking to for the bulk of your tax revenue.

    Now don't get me wrong, you all. I'm pro the legalisation of drugs (despite being forced to give up smoking dope due to the stomach ulcer) but my concern is that it's never going to be the quite the magic pill that its fans see it as being.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Bitterweed
    And porn made only with locally sourced renewable actors
    You clearly don't live anywhere near me otherwise that's a suggestion you'd never have made with a straight face.

    ReplyDelete
  21. quote
    The dealing of drugs by international networks of organised criminal gangs is not going to disappear just because they are decriminalised, anymore than decriminalising prostitution will remove the criminal exploitation of women.
    unquote

    I think the two issues are not comparable. If prostitutes were dealt with in pharmacies at healthy, low prices - something which never will happen because this is a problem with illegal immigration - then we would be discussing the same thing.

    Making drugs legal will stop the illegal traffic from, say, Afghanistan not profitable.

    What I know about drus is that there are many people involved in the chain of distribution, many people who don't even realise what damage they are doing to other innocent people.

    Criminals are always criminals, if they don't deal with drugs they will with other things, but they will have to strain their brains to find something that attract kids from schools to take to using it at that early age.

    When they do, we will be there waiting for them.

    A non-stop fight against crime, don't you think?

    ReplyDelete
  22. I'm basically in favour of legalising drugs but acknowledge the problems that others have raised in relation to say, the UK and a few other countries going it more or less alone.

    The social benefits would be enormous, big tax take, reduced street crime and opportunistic burglary, reduction in prison populations and clean, reliable drugs.

    Or if thats not likely, in the shorter term we could make a start by going back to the old British System the US persuaded us to abandon back in the 60s where heroin addicts got their scripts from GPs so didn't have to rob, steal and mug etc when they were desperate and they'd have a much better chance of sorting themselves out. We could buy up the Afghan poppy crop.

    ReplyDelete
  23. LordS

    Where do you live? I'm sure pikey would be keen to know.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Andy if growing weed was legal - I would expect to see it growing on allotments all over the UK.

    For the enthusiasts for strong weed you could always do as the Vietnamese do grow it in your loft. Either way I could see it not only in corner shops but at Farmers Markets and boot sales all over our green and pleasant land.

    If you are paying crooks for your booze you are soft in the head or bone idle - it's a piece of piss to make decent quality alcohol sodden pop which is tax and crime free. It's called DIY and it involves innocent things like yeast and sugar and flavour.

    I've been brainless on very fine ale, stout and lager to say nothing of elderberry and elderflower wines all of which were home made by me or friends.

    If I ruled the world I would start to revitalise our shit sink estates by organising annual weed/liquor growing contests (complete with a cup).I see no reason why the spirit of the annual leek growing contest cannot be transferred to weed/wine contests with the same community building effect.

    I'm not sure of the mechanics of poppy and coca(?) growing but if it were legal I would expect to see instructional material and advice all over the net in a flash.

    Bring it on - deano

    ReplyDelete
  25. LordS - I don't think Frank is a bad man. I think Frank is a confused and mistaken man but I don't go to bed at night wishing him ill.

    And I am of course aware of the notion(s) of sods law and unintended consequence nonetheless I think that there is more hope for all humans, users and non users, if we decriminalise drug taking.

    I'm not soft enough to think that the criminals will be reformed over night but I do take the view that a lot less innocents will suffer at their hands.

    The economics of the drug market are nuts - most serious big time drug criminals are poorly advised. They would probably be better off engaging in VAT fraud - the prison sentences are easier and lighter if you are unfortunate enough to be caught. Banking and other finance scams are still looking a good bet too.

    Regards - deano

    ReplyDelete
  26. Deano

    Unfortunately don't think I could grow Peyote on my allotment but would love to try.

    ReplyDelete
  27. LordS
    Oh dear.

    ALso, maybe this is where I've got CiF all wrong: It's made entirely from renewable articles

    ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  28. And another tune for your delectation:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCQgB9MFTjE&feature=PlayList&p=AE71E41E57452F3B&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=12

    ReplyDelete
  29. @ Sheff - Mescalin didn't have you down as a Huxley fan! The things that South Yorks ladies get up to in their spare time never ceases to amaze.

    You right though far too wet on a Yorks allotment.

    But Fuck - it if they can grow it in Texas we must be able to find a way in Yorkshire. It's all a matter of keeping the water away...and a suitable steady temp. If they would legalise it we could have a small business opportunity together.

    deano

    ps that blu cheese of yours 'looked' from the way it was written down as intriguingly worth a punt. Have you seen it imported into fine cheese shops in the UK?

    ReplyDelete
  30. MsChin

    Studio One

    Now you're talking !!!

    ReplyDelete
  31. deano - I could try in my greenhouse - the grapevine is doing well.

    Bresse Bleu is really tasty cheese and I get it when the French market comes to town (once every three months). Its a mass produced variant on the real thing which i haven't seen over here - Bleu de Bresse. am going to France in early September so will stock up.

    ReplyDelete
  32. MsC

    That was terrific! - reminded me of living in Handsworth in Brum back in the 60's. Great days.

    ReplyDelete
  33. sheff
    103.1 FM - local radio station, plays some good tunes ..

    ReplyDelete
  34. Sorry to go completely off topic and, hell, I know I'm setting myself up for a cretin of the month for commenting anyway but could someone tell me how to get my full name off of this http://cifthreadrefugee.blogspot.com/2009/07/daily-chat-150709.html? It's not so much that you're calling me ugly but the fact this comes up on google and my family could find it that I find upsetting. Cheers andysays, swiftyboy and scherfig if you could- my fault really I should have had that information deleted from the east15 website ages ago but hopefully they'll do so this week now.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Anonymous @ 19.54:

    I’ve just read back through that page you mention, and I don’t see that I referred to anyone as ugly.

    If you’d like to tell me who you are, which of my comments has upset you and why, I might be prepared to comply with your request.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Another tune:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRMXZEB0AWs&feature=PlayList&p=991A197AF20FADE8&index=13

    ReplyDelete
  37. andy

    I think its Imogenn - check out the East 15 website she refers to (acting school)

    ReplyDelete
  38. sorry lot to dreg through this post-
    "andysays said...
    Given the nature of Imogen’s sexuality, which she found it appropriate to share with all of CiF, it’s tempting to speculate which of her fellow thespians she’s made the beast with two backs with (note witty Shakespearian reference).
    Or perhaps we should speculate which of them she DIDN’T sleep with. Not sure if I’d want to give either K- or F--------- (sorry i dont know how to delete so not reposting my name) one, going solely by appearances. God, I’m so superficial.
    15 July, 2009 13:47 "
    Admittedly not being doable is not directly called me ugly but its not really a compliment either. Do have to admit I'm not a looker anyway but the only reason I hadn't had that photo etc deleted before now was because I honestly thought no-one would ever look at it. Never expected it to get dredged up and disected just because of someone I went to uni with (who's lovely really, just to set myself up for some more ridicule!) Sorry to be so petty but I'm in the process of erasing my real name from the net (ok its not entirely to do with actors only thinking about themselves even though i did google my own name!) and this just really suprised me. :-/

    ReplyDelete
  39. sheff not Imogen, sorry to be so obtuse

    ReplyDelete
  40. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  41. sorry obviously a typo- how did you remove it though?

    ReplyDelete
  42. Anon
    There's a little bin beneath your posts, click on that.

    ReplyDelete
  43. This is one of those awkward moments when the old-fashioned gentleman in me wants to tell Imogen that she's quite doable while the modern new man in me says "just don't go there".

    Modern manners, eh? A feckin' minefield!

    ReplyDelete
  44. Anon - theres a little bin by the date on the comments but you can only remove your own. You can ask Montana to remove comments that others have put up if you're not happy about them but you'll have to argue your case.

    ReplyDelete
  45. lol LordS I'm still not Imogen- I dont think she'd be as petty to take issue with this- but thank you for the sentiment even if pc rules screw it up!

    MsChin- Ah just figured out I'm being stupid- you can't delete if you haven't signed up! Cheers though

    ReplyDelete
  46. Sheff- "You can ask Montana to remove comments that others have put up if you're not happy about them but you'll have to argue your case." Sorry kind of wanted to ask first so I didn't get anyone in trouble- I do understand its all in jest and if I wasn't mentioned I might find it amusing. Thought it would be hypocritical for me to complain- plus it is my fault a little for leaving the info on the net.

    ReplyDelete
  47. If your not I can't think who you might be - don't think anyone else has been mentioned.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Anonymous: OK, I’m assuming you’re either the K or the F referred to in my comment on July 15.

    Whichever you are, I didn’t actually say you weren’t “doable”, merely that I doubted I’d want to, on the basis of the photo. If I were serious, that would make me pretty superficial, but I wasn’t – maybe I’m still superficial.

    I would have thought that in your chosen profession, you can expect to have people saying far less complementary things about you in far more public places than this. After all, despite how much it means to some of us here, it’s a pretty obscure corner of the internet.

    You’re not being petty, I don’t mind you making the request and I’ve no intention of ridiculing you (don’t think my earlier comment does that either), but are you sure you’re not over-reacting a little?

    ReplyDelete
  49. In other news, here's a great song about the working class

    Class.

    ReplyDelete
  50. sheff:

    I’m sure you’re trying to help, but maybe as I’m the one whose comment has caused the trouble, I should deal with our visitor, at least for now.

    ReplyDelete
  51. andy - oops - that's me put in my place - my DI skills not very good obviously

    ReplyDelete
  52. Unfortuately its not my chosen profession- the course we did was a catch all, I'm more into backstage stuff and got forced into the acting melarky (although I'd never say no to TIE) which is beside the point really but thought I should clarify that (still cringing from having someone notice the part I played for Steve Lambert- having it on a website is asking for ridicule especially if people know his work).

    "Whichever you are, I didn’t actually say you weren’t “doable”, merely that I doubted I’d want to, on the basis of the photo. If I were serious, that would make me pretty superficial, but I wasn’t – maybe I’m still superficial." Completely true I think I reacted so badly because I was singled out with Karl and my full name was used. Unfortunately unlike most actors my silly unusual name was given to me by my parents and so it felt like a bit of entrusion of my privacy (ok its on the web so its not literally true but like you say I thought it was a pretty obscure corner of the net)

    "You’re not being petty, I don’t mind you making the request and I’ve no intention of ridiculing you (don’t think my earlier comment does that either), but are you sure you’re not over-reacting a little?" Thank you for saying as I'm aware I'm as thick as a pair of two short planks and am regularly ridiculed quite legitimately and yes you're right I'm completely over reacting which in itself deserves some mocking. However, being a sensitive soul, it would mean a lot to me if you did remove the comments- appart from anything else the reason I google my name is that I'm aware my rather nosey step-mother (ammount others- disfunctional families got to love them) also does so- it would mean a lot if you just removed my name not even the comment.

    F
    Sorry for the big ramble

    ReplyDelete
  53. its ok sheff I'm being very immature and it was a private group discussion that I happened upon.

    ReplyDelete
  54. F - its not immature to want derogatory references taken down and as it can be done I don't see why it shouldn't be done.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Anonymous/F:

    Really, you don’t need to apologise, and I have no intention of mocking you.

    I’m quite happy to remove the whole comment of mine which mentions your name (it’s not possible to edit them), and I will ask the others who mentioned your name to do the same.

    Whilst I can’t speak for them, I’m pretty sure they’ll be happy to comply with your request.

    I know that at least one is away on holiday at the moment, so it may take a while, but I’ll see to it.

    Just make sure (if you can) that your family don’t google your name for a week or two.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Well I'm aware it was joking and that, like andy says, I'm completely overeacting. just didn't want to be refered to be name! sorry I've hijacked an intellegent discussion with a rambling request which could have been done privately (not that I've figured out how to PM!)

    ReplyDelete
  57. Cheers Andy you're a complete star. sorry to be such a fuss!

    ReplyDelete
  58. F: I’ve removed my comment.

    You haven’t hijacked anything, and asking in the straight-forward way you did was the best way of dealing with it.

    All the best, Andy (not my real name)

    ReplyDelete
  59. MsChin
    Indeed. This one's for all those prodigious kids
    TeenTown

    ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  60. "Andy (not my real name)" lol I've suggested Imogen use another name too even though that wasn't her real name to begin with

    ReplyDelete
  61. F: Imogen has chosen to use her real name (or at least the one by which she is generally known) on The Guardian blog which has a far greater readership than this one.

    I've had a variety of names on that site, though andysays is closest to my real one.

    If you had been Imogen asking me to remove my comment, I would have been rather less sympathetic.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Bless her she's a sweetheart really but she is a bit niave if she's using her legal name. Unless it's not the Imogen I know and then I feel really really stupid!
    I haven't actually seen any of her comments so probably shouldn't comment on her but I doubt she'd have bothered with such a silly request!

    ReplyDelete
  63. Nice to see Studio One mentioned. Can some clever linky type give us a bit of Jackie Mittoo or Boris Gardiner as our vid of the day tomorrow?

    ReplyDelete
  64. I thought Imogen was her nom de stage (or whatever you call it). One of her names isn't real, I'm sure of it.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Bitterweed: Hm...
    I’ve always thought Jaco was a bit too flashy. Triumph of style over substance and all that.

    If you want something from a great bassist and a great composer try some Mingus music.

    ReplyDelete
  66. fencewalker- your right it is her "nom de stage" (ok I know no better either) but I believe it's also her legal name now. Not sure as I haven't spoken to her in a long time.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Anon

    Even though Any has removed the comment it can take weeks before it stops showing up on Google! But that's the way it works and it will still appear on the cached pages for quite some time too even though it no longer exists on the blog here.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Fencewalker: I always find some of her comments unreal.

    Saw your toast post on WDYWTTA? the other day. When I was making toast this morning at my GF’s, I had the exact opposite problem.

    Bread too small/toaster too big – result, had to fish the toast out with a knife. Maybe we should switch toasters/bread suppliers/partners...

    ReplyDelete
  69. Good tune that Sheffpixie; remember when Galliano nicked the intro when I were a lad [mind you, their whole album was unannounced rip-offs of one sort or another].

    Andysays: Quite right on the comments. I've just eaten some sadly underperforming toast, so I may take you up on your offer (in one of its permutations). Mind you, our last toaster came free with Barclaycard points, so that might explain part of it.

    ReplyDelete
  70. Ahh, they have what is I think my fave Jackie Mittoo track:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVikMvvvnc4&feature=related

    Still cannae do links, :-(

    ReplyDelete
  71. Fencewalker

    Links are like this - just change the { & } for < & >

    {a href="web address here"}whatever blurb you want in here{/a}

    don't forget the speechmarks

    ReplyDelete
  72. Let's try that
    {a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVikMvvvnc4&feature=related"}Juice Box{/a}

    ReplyDelete
  73. {a"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVikMvvvnc4&feature=related"}Juice Box{/a}

    ReplyDelete
  74. Oooh change the thing...
    Juice Box

    ReplyDelete
  75. Oh god fencewalker - just put in the little sideways < and > where i put in the { & }

    If I did it with the < > 's it would come up as a proper link and you couldn't see how it was done.

    If its not clear it's probably 'cos I'm several sheets to the wind already

    ReplyDelete
  76. sheff: Nice one.

    I see that’s a Soul Jazz reissue. They’ve done some great stuff over the past few years. My fave is “In the Beginning there was Rhythm”, including the Slits track of the same name, stuff by The Pop Group, Gang of Four and A Certain Ratio "Shack Up".

    There’s even the Human League and Cabaret Voltaire from your neck of the woods.

    Fence: There’s no such thing as a free slice of toast – you always pay for it in the end.

    ReplyDelete
  77. andy

    Flashy, maybe sometimes, but only like Hendrix could be.

    Mingus was obviously the master.

    But Jacko... well.. as an acolyte of Zawinul at least.. could be beautiful also.

    ReplyDelete
  78. @Anonymous E15 alum

    I'm sorry if anything here was upsetting/embarrassing for you. It looks like everything's been deleted already. If not, please right-click on the time stamp at the bottom of the offending comment to get a link to the specific comment and then e-mail me that link at: thewildhackATgmailDOTcom.

    Believe it or not, we really don't want to hurt or embarrass any innocent bystanders. And, feel welcome to come back and join us any time. Any former classmate of Imogen's is someone I think we'd all be happy to have around.

    ReplyDelete
  79. andysays
    You really need to get that Maconie book. All of the above-mentioned bands get a look in. I couldn't stand any of that 80s nonsense at the time (noticable exceptions the Cure and The The), but he's engaging to the point where you think it's worth looking at again. His chapter on Postcard records particularly warm.

    ReplyDelete
  80. The The - haven't heard them in decades - liked them a lot.

    The The

    ReplyDelete
  81. Sheffpixie:
    No boozyfault of yours, I just can't follow simple instructions.

    Andysays:
    I only found out fairly recently about ACR's version of Shack Up and its cultyness. It was the original I always knew (legendary breakbeat). Banbarra got totally fucked over by their management and ended up a one hit wonder. Bloody shame that. How the hell ACR got to hear of it I dunno.

    ReplyDelete
  82. Oh and ta

    ReplyDelete
  83. Yeah, Fence is in the “look at me mum, I can do links” club!

    Bitterweed: With Hendrix the pyrotechnics seem to me (most of them) seem to have some point – fucking great feedback and controlled distortion usually. But with Pastorius it just seems to me like showing off.

    Maybe it’s just a blind spot. I love electric Miles, but never quite got Weather Report, though I like Zawinul’s stuff with Cannonball Adderley.

    74 Miles Away is great.

    That book’s on Amazon for £5.99. Maybe I’ll give it a go...

    ReplyDelete
  84. Sheff
    Cool, wehn we were proper mashed, it was pretty infectuous

    %-)

    ReplyDelete
  85. Andy
    Nice, Canonball was great. I kind of know what you mean, but Jaco's work with Joni (Shadows and Light, live) was equal to Mingus IMHO. At least for a coupe of years he had the measure of that greatness anyway. He needed a strong bandleader to be in awe of to function properly, and like so many of that - genius ? - this wasn't always enough for him. Shame.

    Zawinul; got his biography, some great stuff in there. Love Joe Zawinul.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Oh and andysays, you'll do that book in a day. Worth it though. Pretty lightweight, fun and refreshing.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Oh and while we're at it. Greatest jazz pianist ever?
    I don't know, but this will get my vote for top three any day.

    Oscar Peterson

    Blimey !

    ReplyDelete
  88. Bitterweed: I’m pretty sure all the bands I mentioned were actually late 70’s – immediate post punk explosion – although some of them went on to greater commercial success in the 80’s.

    Fence: Funnily enough, when I first heard ACR’s Shack Up (probably on John Peel) I had no idea it was a cover. I wasn’t very keen on “disco shit” at that stage.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Sheff
    Indeed...
    My bifta's kicked in now... have this...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljVVFKjN0Dc

    ReplyDelete
  90. BW

    That's making me cry....and no bifta to shore me up.

    ReplyDelete
  91. Jazz pianists: not competent to talk about technical ability, but on composition Herbie Hancock and Ramsey Lewis would be in there for me. I don't go for overblown fingerwork much. Ooh and Ray Bryant -

    Ooh I'm a clever bastard now (unless it's gone wrong)
    ...but I love all that late 60s Cadet stuff. Good chunk of my pay gets converted into vinyl.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Bitterweed: Peterson is obviously brilliant, though I can’t say I’m a “fan”.

    I go more for Cecil Taylor, and McCoy Tyner especially his work with Trane (no surprise there, then). An excellent contemporary pianist in a similar tradition is Matthew Shipp.

    Herbie gets an honourable mention too, Fence.

    But the greatest jazz pianist of all time, in terms of ability and imagination? One word:

    Thelonious

    ReplyDelete
  93. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  94. Sheff
    It really is good isn't it ?

    In other news.

    Thelonius
    Hanckock
    Tyner

    Nice one people...

    Although he died last year and will never reach those hallowed halls, here's Esbjorn Svensonn, in his wonderfully titled From Gagarin's Point of View.

    Nice... ;-)

    Going to bed soon, Mrs Weed's got Keith Jarret on. And a bifta.

    ReplyDelete
  95. try again with this link

    bathing in nostalgia now

    Steve Forbert

    ReplyDelete
  96. Keith Jarrett! Mortgage on my Soul - that's a monster.

    ReplyDelete
  97. And as it’s approaching Round About Midnight, I’m going to bed now...

    ReplyDelete
  98. Gene Harris is good too, but he's more from the soul jazz/funk end of it. And as much keyboards as piano. But still, it's good.

    ReplyDelete
  99. Nice one Sheff, hadn't seen that before... you sweetie !

    ;-)

    Evening All.

    ReplyDelete
  100. dizzy and bird - stunning !

    Thanks !

    ReplyDelete
  101. Fence
    You like Keith J ? Good. Gets a bad rap I reckon.

    Meanwhile, here's this. Miles says... this.

    ReplyDelete
  102. I like some of his stuff. Got three or four albums in the crates..Birth, El Juicio..can't rem the rest (sleepy!). Some of it can be, well just noise, but there's some absolute gems in there.

    ReplyDelete
  103. I used to go to the jazz things in UCL bar when I was a student. Always used to end with So What. Magic.

    ReplyDelete
  104. Good stuff, FW. Also great: Pat Metheney

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avwXET5ippQ

    ReplyDelete
  105. was going to leave it with Billy then i remembered the boys

    Amazing Rhythmn Aces

    ReplyDelete
  106. Bubba Fencewalker02 August, 2009 23:37

    Well, I'm congenitally unable to like country-ish stuff much (tho' Boy Named Sue was my fave when I was a kid), but I offer you this in the knowledge that it's fuckin' brilliant:
    Gary Atkinson, Wandering Soul

    ReplyDelete
  107. Great stuff both

    Here's some more airborn deviance:
    Brilliant.

    ReplyDelete
  108. enjoyed that fence

    ok no country but try this

    Mao Tse Tung says

    ReplyDelete
  109. BW - that sounds like Flight of the Conchords' Inner City Pressure; you can't really hear it on the vid version, but check this:
    I hope this doesn't cause a Men at Work style lawsuit, cos I love those Conchords

    ReplyDelete
  110. Is the singer's day job being Mickey Rourke?

    ReplyDelete
  111. Finally

    Back to Studio 1...

    Here's the Gaylads singing about where it all started from

    Africa.

    ReplyDelete
  112. Wow, just done a whistlestop tour of the tunes - brilliant!

    ReplyDelete
  113. Like that Gaylads' tune. Wish I had more Jamaican vinyl. Most of what I have is on CD, and the compilations are usually pretty shoddy.

    ReplyDelete
  114. fencewalker
    You always get a shorter version on those compliation thingys, they're never quite the same somehow

    ReplyDelete
  115. Top tune - lurve it!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9xruh1JEpY

    ReplyDelete
  116. Yeah. And I like to get really anal and know all the release years and stuff; Jamaican comps are the worst for that (you hear me Soul Jazz?).

    ReplyDelete
  117. Fence, cracker ain't it ? I found that on a Mojo compilation, pretty good one.

    Heh, nice one MsChin. Praise be to Sheff BTW, never heard of Phylis Dillon before.

    Magic.

    ReplyDelete
  118. Same riddim:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9vIDuhfuZU

    ReplyDelete
  119. BW, cop a listen of this then. Up there with Marlena's:
    Phyllis Dillon, Woman of the Ghetto

    ReplyDelete
  120. One for the hooligans:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwMImIo1R0Y

    ReplyDelete
  121. More Phyllis - from my other half:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEQTH6kYCRE&feature=related

    ReplyDelete
  122. Ahh we like John Holt here. Didn't he die last year?

    ReplyDelete
  123. She's got a good voice that Phyllis. Never really looked for her stuff, mainly because her name was a background one when I was a kid and I'd assumed she was some kinda battlewagonthat would have been a guest on Russell Harty singing some Lloyd-Webberish guff. Then I heard that Woman of the Ghetto cover. Phoof.

    ReplyDelete
  124. Yep. Got a double vinyl downstairs of Holt, Trojan thing. Bought it for fifteen quid, soft touch me.

    Got Mr Bojangles on it tho ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  125. Hah. That can't end well.
    I was gonna try and post The Chosen Few/Don't break your promise as a toodle-pipper but YouTube has let me down at last. Anyway, I'm entering the Wind Down Zone.

    ReplyDelete
  126. Fencewalker
    "Then I heard that Woman of the Ghetto cover"
    Heh, can't win them all eh ?

    My old man, almost a constant arbiter of tatse for me formitavley - whether it be jazz, rock or pop, once told me he could never respect a pretentious twat who had "quasi" as his middle 'name'. Then I heard him on Peel. Lynton Kwesi Johnson

    Heh.

    ReplyDelete
  127. More Mr Holt:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQhrbW9FlQQ

    and back to where I started upthread this morning:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFEvdWHK7GA&feature=related

    ReplyDelete
  128. Love Ali Baba. Couldn't get it out of my head for ages when I first heard it. Rocksteady trumps the other styles for me; never had much time for Dancehall, with a few exceptions.

    ReplyDelete
  129. .. never had much time for Dancehall, with a few exceptions..

    Likewise, but then there's this, which I do like a lot:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvAMaN_GtHw

    ReplyDelete
  130. Might be the first version I've heard that isn't just cheese. Trying hard not to go to the record quaffing sites now.

    ReplyDelete
  131. MsChin
    S'alright that. Nice riddim. And he can sing!
    That is one of the good things about the Soul Jazz comps lack of info - I find myself liking things I'd have been snobby about if I knew what they were.

    ReplyDelete
  132. In other news, here's a Barbadian crooner who shoud be given some sort of posthumous thingy.

    Jackie Opel... and what a great, unexpected rendition. Fly me to the moon

    ReplyDelete
  133. Yep, I like eclectic, it's good for the soul! Mind you, can't stand C&W stuff.

    ReplyDelete
  134. MsChin
    There's C&W, and there's Country... v different !

    ReplyDelete
  135. BW
    Yeaaaghhhh, either way -
    Remember Slim Smith?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD0Mv5tQF-8&feature=related

    ReplyDelete
  136. MsChin

    Here's country...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBDEX_DKWaA

    ReplyDelete
  137. BW
    OK, might have to listen to that tomorrow, don't want to get all maudlin here!
    Hic.

    ReplyDelete
  138. OK, MsC.
    Here's this then
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PscAZyOMGiA

    Hell yes... ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  139. Looks like we've lost fencewalker to the online record sites ..

    Been a long day, in fact, I might have to wimp out now & say goodnight.

    ReplyDelete
  140. Damn thassnice too. I'm already browsing two music sites...this could get expensive!
    As for covers, I've got a reggae one of Staying Alive somewhere, and it's surprisingly brilliant, but I can't find it on yer tube to post.
    Anyway, before I splurge my cash, I'll wrap it up. Tomorrow I suggest an evening of Afro-Rock and Afrobeat.
    Ner-night.

    ReplyDelete
  141. Fencewalker is leaving the building03 August, 2009 00:57

    Blargh. I'm forced to come back like Gandalf - here's a more soulful piece from the South - from a damn hard to get album. Over 9 mins, but keep with it, swells up and gets gorgeous.
    Eric Mercury

    ReplyDelete
  142. Dude yer link don't work fer somer reason

    Listening to Electric Black Man right now though... fuckin great !!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGj8oshYzOU

    ReplyDelete
  143. You're right about Electric Black Man. Not heard that before.

    ReplyDelete
  144. Got it. Soulful.
    Agreed about the Africa thing BTW, would be good. Hopefully will be around tomorrow evening for that.

    ReplyDelete
  145. Now I've got to pay for these 'ere 45s I'm buying.

    ReplyDelete
  146. If anyone's still here, I'm not.

    ReplyDelete
  147. http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=cIFeq4x_2Xc

    Oh Lordy !

    Heh.

    ReplyDelete