11 November 2010



And still they come and go: and this is all I know --
That from the gloom I watch an endless picture-show,
Where wild or listless faces flicker on their way,
With glad or grievous hearts I'll never understand
Because Time spins so fast, and they've no time to stay
Beyond the moment's gesture of a lifted hand.

And still, between the shadow and the blinding flame,
The brave despair of men flings onward, ever the same
As in those doom-lit years that wait them, and have been ...
And life is just the picture dancing on the screen.

-Siegfried Sassoon


  1. BeautifulBurnout

    Re: the students protests.

    Aren't you the mother who's told us that she's taken her son out of the State education system to educate him at home with private tuition? So won't he feel a bit hypocritical standing alongside his fellow marchers protesting about the demise of State education?

    Nevertheless this is an excellent choice you've made and with your guidance, dedication and commitment, one which will enable him to reach the very heights of his chosen profession far more quickly than he might have done with a conventional education in our failing State schools and universities. You are truely a pioneer of Coalition philosophy and practice. Nick Clegg will doubtless reward you appropriately in due course. We look forward to reading the wisdom of BeautifulBurnout OBE.

    We need women like you to give us your advice and guidance to help us through these troubling times.

    So as the epitome of Coalition educational philosophy I think we should have something from you ATL on CiF on how home education for upper middle class families can be a real alternative to the State's very expensive option?

    And if you need any help?

  2. BeautifulBurnout

    I have a feeling that this is just a start, though. I think the frequency and intensity of protests will increase and they will eventually all join hands as they realise that, whatever their own special interest, we are indeed all in this together when it comes to being royally shafted.


    Barristers out on the street?

    Or was this some others you were referring to as We?

  3. BeautifulBurnout

    "Just because rad-fems use the patriarchy as an excuse for not having achieved what they want in their lives doesn't mean that they are not capable of achieving things if they put their minds to it and put some bloody back into it instead of seeking someone/something else to blame. (And, as a successful woman in a "man's world", I am living proof of that, but that's another story)"

    Me I prefer a more generous approach:

    The powerful say, "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps." But they don't really believe that those living on denuded reservations, or on strip-mined hills, or in ghettos that are destinations for drugs from Colombia and Iraq, can somehow pull themselves up. What they're really saying is, "If you can, do, but if you can't, forget it." It's the most pernicious of all acts of segregation, because it is so subtle.

    Maya Angelou


    "A smashed capitalist window today is a socialist revolution tomorrow - long live the home educated revolutionaries"

    Well not an exact quote but good enough to head the Untrusted's flag?

  4. Bitethehand said...

    No double think, no prevarication, no quarter. Either fight now or fuck off.

    And apart from your cheap obscenity, if we fight and you don't like us, what then?

    Do we do as MrsBootstraps does and pay for our own personal salvation and to hell with everyone else?

    Other than posting our hypocritical dedication to the struggle on CiF?

    11 November, 2010 06:47

  5. Hi Bitey, been saving it up have we? Jesus man, lighten up lest you be mistaken for a cyber stalker or troll. Wouldn't want that now would you? On most sites, as you very well know, one can be shitcanned for this sort of behaviour. Not here. Your contributions will live or die on their merit. Think about it. Bye.

  6. Morning Boudican!

    Bitey.... give it a rest.... it must be exhausting waging such a singularly boring personal vendetta. What's your solution to the problems we all face? Ah, yes, Fill our universities with the fat, over-privileged kids of the Honk Kong Chinese and Russian oligarchs waving wads of cash buying degrees?

  7. Your contributions will live or die on their merit
    Looks like they're going to die Boudican, as usual. Is this really the best you can manage bitey on today of all days?

  8. On this day, when we should be remembering those who fought and died to enable us to make free choice, - We get Bitey !!!

    To reiterate the sentiment above:

    Fuck Off Bitey

    By the way the Spanish flag is mine ... 'All mine.. '

  9. Morning all

    They went with songs to the battle, they were young.
    Straight of limb, true of eyes, steady and aglow.
    They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted,
    They fell with their faces to the foe.

    They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
    Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

    At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
    We will remember them.

    I always find the Ode of Remembrance followed by the Last Post quite moving.

  10. tascia's made the point i was going to make - good choice of pic and poem, Montana (and thanks to the photographer, too!), and thanks Paul, too - those closing four lines always give me a shiver. So simple, so moving.

    Here's to Great-Uncle Jack, who didn't make it.


    Bent double, like old beggars under sacks, Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
    Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
    And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
    Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
    But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
    Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
    Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.
    Gas! Gas! Quick, boys! – An ecstasy of fumbling,
    Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
    But someone still was yelling out and stumbling,
    And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime . .

    Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
    As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
    In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
    He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

    If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
    Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
    And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
    His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
    If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
    Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
    Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
    Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,
    My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
    To children ardent for some desperate glory,
    The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
    Pro patria mori.

    2 minute silence (no posting here) at 11am? (GMT)

    In other news, Clegg has cancelled an appointment to speak to students at Oxford union due to "other commitments"!

    Any last respect or hope I had for him died when I heard that on the radio this morning!

  12. 2 minute silence at 11am is the only appropriate sound at that time.

    BTW Our new UT friend - Meerkat in fine voice?

    Pen - the lady is plainly not Monkeyfish or any other than as claimed. She openly provided the link in her own blogger profile, you only needed to look.

  13. Hello 3 visitors from Hong Kong

  14. "Hello 3 visitors from Hong Kong"

    That's Bitey and his two evil dwarf operatives.

  15. BW

    "That's Bitey and his two evil dwarf operatives. "

    That's Ok, it's Dozy and Sneezy: they can't do much damage!

  16. Now there are four! Hello Bashful ;-)

    BTW if any of you aren't abusive or quackers trolls, or their minions, welcome to the UT!

  17. 5.. You know, when there are eight of you (7 plus Bitey) we're going to get even more suspicious..


    Here dead we lie
    Because we did not choose
    To live and shame the land
    From which we sprung.

    Life, to be sure,
    Is nothing much to lose,
    But young men think it is,
    And we were young.

    A E Housman

  19. Apparently this was another chant yesterday:

    Nick Clegg
    I know you
    You're a fucking Tory too.

  20. RedMiner 1.25AM and 1.33PM

    "I lost my father today, a man of a better generation than ours, Mr Clegg, one that believed in social compassion and fairness in its truest sense, that is, not an expedient to power and riches at the expense of honesty and decency, not as the key to high office on the backs of the poor and vulnerable, the scapegoats of your felicitous career move."

    All the best to you RedMiner, proof yourself that social compassion and fairness are not completely extinct , nor fighting spirit :) Condolences also from Atomboy and Bitterweed, who cannot post here any more. Clegg thread

  21. IDS now talking about 'sin'.

    this welfare shake-up is all getting a bit tub-thumping biblical...
    "the rich man in his castle,
    the poor man tidying up his extensive grounds for no feckin' money at all,
    luck made them high and lowly
    and the government keeps them in their estate..."

  22. Thanks for the poems - and that link Deano. We studied Dulce et Decorum est when I was 14 or so. Off to Sussex soon. Peaceful day ? No chance !

  23. Thaum nice one.

    I was on googlemap the other day looking at the streetscene view of the home of Nick's Sheffield Political Agent ........didn't seem right to paraquat "SCUM" into the lawn of an eighty+ year old so I let it pass.

    I'm too soft on aged hooligans

    Still I did wonder if the plumbing firm that seem to share the address of his constituency office had thought about their position......

  24. Meanwhile, in other news, Iain Duncan Smith challenges Tony Blair in race to become God.

    Iain Duncan Smith: it's a sin that people fail to take up work

    Work and pensions secretary prepares to introduce the most severe welfare sanctions ever imposed by a British government

    Ian Duncan Smith, the work and pensions secretary, said today it was a "sin" that people failed to take up available jobs as he prepared to announce a tougher-than-expected squeeze on the unemployed.

    This will see the jobless face the threat of losing all benefits for as long as three years if they refuse community work or the offer of a job, or fail to apply for a post if advised to do so.

    In the most severe welfare sanctions ever imposed by a British government, unemployed people will lose benefits for three months if they fail to take up one of the options for the first time, six months if they refuse an offer twice, and three years if they refuse an offer three times.


    So, Broken Britain gets biblical in its demonising of the poor.

    Expect hellfire and brimstone to rain upon your heads - between the rain, obviously.

    Remember, kids:

    Never deny anything three times - ever. You are not fucking St Peter, geddit?

    Start using them idle hands, chil'en, and get makin' them weapons before that boss man come back.

    Get ready for that slave uprisin' that's been a long time comin'.

  25. Bitterweed

    Where is Sussex are you heading?

  26. Sorry, Philippa. Hadn't seen yours on that.

  27. ...
    It can get rough here.

    Fortunately, not for long, and in no small part thanks to the great work of its excellent forum Moderators. After all, this isn't just any spit and sawdust, nickel and dime joint, it's a leader in the business of internet media blogging, opinion and participation, and it has a classy international reputation to uphold - that of The Guardian."

  28. @BW

    Yeah, which bit of our glorious county, currently being lashed by gales and horizontal climate change?

  29. A thought for my great-uncle, who refused to fight in the First World War, but was willing to serve without killing, as a medical orderly, mainly transporting casualties. He was decorated for conspicuous bravery in bringing wounded men off the field under heavy fire.

    He and his wife lived to a ripe old age. Heavily marked by their experiences, they refused to bring any children into the world in which they lived.

  30. AB/Philippa

    My housemate's on jobseekers/housing benefit. When she went to claim they wanted my personal details (how much I got paid, letter from my employers etc etc.). She bless her, only gave them how much I pay her in rent (it's her place) they still docked that as income and only gave her half her jobseekers, then only helped her out for her bit of the mortgage, and things are going to get worse?!?!?!?

    Dave, yep, I saw that, thought about posting "Hear hear MIE I agree" until I got out of pre-mod, then I felt very dirty and scrubbed my brain out with soap!

  31. "...This will see the jobless face the threat of losing all benefits for as long as three years if they refuse community work or the offer of a job, or fail to apply for a post if advised to do so....."

    These people are brain dead WTF do they think people will do if the pathetic benefit is removed?

    Do they really think folk will stop eating for three years?

    "Old man Scratty had a donkey - he'd just trained it to live without eating when it died."

    Fucking cunts. They are going to reduce the prison population too....Have Tesco and M&S and the other food shops heard that shoplifting is the new way to reduce the Welfare bill.

    FFS what do our Public Schools teach these half bakes........still I travel with hope

    "What's for dinner mum? I'm hungry. " - "shurrup yer dad's out hunting for an old Etonian"

  32. Hi Dott- poor M seems incapable of posting without a little snideswipe at UT . Most odd :)

  33. the more the 'merrier', Atomboy - no coincidence we're thinking along the same lines...

  34. deano - "Shurrurp yer dad's out hunting for an old Etonian"
    first actual lol of the day !

  35. Froggie - Thank you for that. Very much appreciated.


    and things are going to get worse?!?!?!?...

    Yes, but not necessarily in the way the ConDems are planning and hope, which is not to minimise or romanticise what will be happening in the very real lives of real people.


  36. Those heroes that shed their blood
    And lost their lives...
    You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country.
    Therefore, rest in peace.
    There is no difference between the Johnnies
    And the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side,
    Here in this country of ours.
    You, the mothers, who sent their sons from far away countries...
    Wipe away your tears.
    Your sons are now lying in our bosom
    And are in peace.
    After having lost their lives on this land, they have
    Become our sons as well.

    - M. Kemal Ataturk

    In memory of Private 1906 James Thomas Jackson, d. 7 August 1915. II.G.5 Skew Bridge Cemetery, Sedd-el-Bahr, Turkey.

  37. Belated welcome to the Lady Meerkat,Timboktutu and JohnCade1


    I saw that post yesterday .What an arselicking toerag!

  38. Bitterweed

    Good luck and enjoy yourself.

    This from WADDYA seems worth putting here:

    11 November 2010 10:24AM

    Broadcasting live from the Church of Latter Day Sociopaths, where the Right Reverend Iain Duncan Smith is leading a service of 'there-is-no-such-thing-as-communion-we`re-all-individuals':

    'I take my reading today from St. Margaret's Epistles to the Apostles, as amended by the First Cameronian Public Relations Council. 'And Margaret smiled and said Buggered are the Meak for they shall inherit crippling debt though it be not their fault. Crack open the champers.' The interpretation of this passage is quite clear. Those of you who we deem capable of work but who cannot because our deeming procedures are run by Atos and friends, you are SINNAHS.

    Dirty sinnahs who will rot in Hell, ah said HAYELL, for all eternity. Oh you might shake at the sound of these words but that is nothing because Satan himself has a place in Hayall just for you for daring to be unproductive.

    But you can be SAVED. Take Conservatism into your hearts and get on your bike. No longer sully the New Jerusalem that we are building in the CIty with the bones of your children, but leave now this paradise and go forth into the North and redeem yourselves through work.

    Be not afraid if the work is not there, for hath not Saint Friedman of Chicago foretold, if one destroys an economic infrastructure the Lord will by His miraculous power turn workfare into jobs?

    And those who dare resist the will of our Lord Mammon shall be subjected to such pestilence, and hellfire and brimstone shall pour forth from the TSG, and their ruin shall be smote.

    Save your souls SINNAHS. Embrace the Tory way. Who will come to me and be saved. Your sir, will you embrace St. Margaret?

    Eh, yes

    What's your name son?


    Are you a Sinnah, Nick?

    Breaks down in tears. I am a sinner. I offered to scrap tuition fees.

    ***Shock in the choir.***

    No, no Nick it is good to confess to the Lord. But now you must embrace Mammon in your heart and commit yourself to the Cameronian creed. Say it - Ah buleeeve.

    I believe

    Say it LOUDER. Say it like the Lord is ripping out your heart and giving you a fat bonus.



    You`re right I don't give a fup about students now.

    ***congregation rejoices***

    Whispers. Meet me in the vestry afterwards for extreme unction.

    This is a government of lunatics and bullies. Resist now.

  39. Private Eye's covering Vodafone tax dodges this issue. More incandescence. VF "chose" the £800m and reverse engineered it; told the HMRC that's the deal they were getting. Plus VF are still "squirelling money away in Luxembourg. Accounts just published in the Grand Duchy show a further 1.2bn Euros stuffed into VIL in 2009/10."

    Suffice to say - how many jobs and services is this worth ?

    NB In case you didn't know (I didn't) their Finance Director Andy Halford is a member of Goerge Osbourne's "Business Forum for Competitiveness and Tax". I bet he fucking is.

    Any comments Hank ?

  40. Atomboy, was just going to paste the same thing! Cracking post.

  41. Spike your relative may have spent some time here:

    Richmond Castle N Yorkshire

    "The castle was used during the First World War as the base of the Non-Combatant Corps made up of conscientious objectors - conscripts who refused to fight. It was also used to imprison some conscientious objectors who refused to accept army discipline and participate in the war in any way. These included 'the Richmond 16' who were taken to France from the castle, charged under Field Regulations and then sentenced to death, these death sentences then being commuted to ten years' hard labour"

    If you visit you can see the bleak cells where the unruly conscies were kept and abused.....some of them scratched their names in the walls as they waited for what they really believed was to be their deaths.....they did not yield.

  42. @deano

    The photo seems to have been removed from wiki.

  43. How ironic that on the day we commemorate and remember the enormous sacrafices of citizen armies of WWI and WWII, we have a reactionary privileged nonentity such as Ian Duncan Smith making an announcement that today is the greatest change in the welfare system since Beveridge.

    How can we forget that the post war settlement of 1945 was only won as a result of the appalling carnage of WWI through the deprivations of great depression to the even deadlier carnage of WWII?

    Ian Duncan Smith’s belief that it is a ‘sin’ not to work is classic Victorian morality and hypocrisy rolled into one. Don’t forget that he has used seriously distorted research to push the agenda that it is parenting and parenting alone regardless of universal factors that affects a child’s upbringing.

    Of course, even the most cursory glance proves this to be bullshit, but it suits the neo-liberal conservative agenda. Like the neo-liberal who believes that we should be at the mercy of the market with only our labour to sell regardless of circumstances, the devout conservative Christian believes that you are answerable to God based on your economic ability regardless of personal circumstances.

    It’s not society, it’s not Government, it’s not community, it’s not school, it’s not socio-economic upbringing, it’s not the effects of poverty etc etc that determine whether you are ‘worthy in the eyes of God’, it’s you, you, you, the individual, regardless of upbringing or opportunity.

    Therefore, the destruction of the welfare state is a natural extension of this ‘christian’ belief. If you are alone facing God, then temporally you must be alone in society, you have to make your own way.

    If poverty is original sin (which Thatcher’s Dad always told her), then those that IDS and the Conservatives have declared war on, are sinners and they are doing the Lords work. The fact that it is millionaires, the wealthy and the privileged lecturing us these Christian values should be of no relevance. We are all on our own facing the judgement of the market and God.

  44. bencaute is a fine poster - also greendragonreprised has some wonderful moments (and staying power).

  45. philippa

    Agree with you about the Deborah Orr article.And on the subject of MH i think Pen may be in the eaarly stages of another breakdown.He's just posted on waddya making a threat to report who i assume is Meerkat for misconduct.The guy clearly isn't well.

  46. @BW:

    Ah Shoreham! Much loved by my wife
    For Marks & Spencer’s superstore
    Alas though! Sadly, for my life
    I cannot go there anymore.

    I cannot stand and queue for cake,
    Nor can I browse the rails,
    For shopping doth the old piss take,
    All sense of humour fails.

    We bicker as we roll around
    With basket, bag and trolley
    And my heart sinks into the ground
    As she spends all my lolly…

    Enjoy the gig mate. Play hard.

  47. ".....these death sentences then being commuted to ten years' hard labour"

    Commuted at the last minute...

  48. Cheers for that AB (both posts!) Gotta scoot.

  49. Try this one Spike

    Richmond Castle

    ...the cells are in the blockhouse on the right.

  50. Spike - better picture in the Wiki article just click on the picture to enlarge it...Richmond Castle

  51. paul - have gone over waddya, haven't seen the odded posts, obv, and he is getting a bit random against meerkatijie, but seems to be largely engaging and on topic (within the continuum, obv) in his other stuff...not sure this is like last time. that was generally weird...

  52. A mass for peace

    a favourite piece by Karl Jenkins from "The Armed Man - A Mass for Peace", commissioned for the opening of the new Royal Armories collection in Leeds.

  53. @deano

    Cheers. Must have been very grim. I'm not sure whether he was interned, since he was willing to serve, although not as a combatant. I'll have to ask my sister.

  54. Spike - I think it was only a comparatively small number that refused all kinds of service and were locked up. But Richmond was, if Wiki is right, evidently a base for the Non Combat Corp which may have included the conscies who did brave work with stretchers in no mans land

    PeterJ may know more about these things?

  55. I hear that much of UK plc didn't even stop for the two minutes ?

    Having a public holiday , like the French, might be sinful too, think of the lost tractor production.

    I'm going to be good, close down computer .... X!

  56. Perhaps more widespread than I thought.....
    Conscientous Objection in WWI

    "....In all, more than 6,312 conscientious objectors were arrested; 5,970 were court-martialled and sent to prison, where they endured privations both mental and physical (819 spent over two years in prison). At least 73 COs died because of the harsh treatment they received; a number suffered long-term physical or mental illness.

    1,330 'absolutists' refused to do any kind of alternative war work, but never won exemption for this principled stand. Some agreed to join the Home Office Scheme, but later changed their minds and went back to prison...."

  57. frog2 - you raise an interesting question.....are we in the UK remembering the right 11am??

  58. @Spike, deano

    I'm afraid COs weren't my particular interest, although I'm sure I have some reference material upstairs. I'll have a look.

    I do know that there were about 16,000 in total in WW1, which is surprisingly few to my mind.

  59. The Sheffield contingent, perhaps especially, might be interested in a combination of Poster Boy Clegg and the new chant for Broken Britain:

    Tory Scum
    Here We Come
    Tory Scum
    Here We Come

    Stick it in your window or Sellotape it to a passing bat.

  60. Talking about refusing to fight – reminds me we had a nice lad, good soldier, refused point blank to go out on patrol one night. He’d spoken to his mother earlier in the day, apparently she’d had a “bad feeling” about something happening to him, had consulted a “phone psychic” who (as they usually do) told her pretty much what she wanted to hear… caused a good deal of hilarity in the orderly room when he was marched in to explain himself (and very earnest he was too), and it was entertaining enough as we moved out with us all giving it the old Pte Frazer “we’re all do-o-o-omed” routine, him with a face like fizz, effing and jeffing and bemoaning his bad luck, and the RSM, no less, calling out “take care son!” while waving a hankie…

    Often wondered whether his mother got her money back – needless to say, we returned after an uneventful night…

  61. "...The Armistice was agreed at 5 AM on 11 November, to come into effect at 11 AM Paris time, for which reason the occasion is sometimes referred to as "the eleventh (hour) of the eleventh (day) of the eleventh (month)".


  62. Have the French put their clocks back? We could still be right!

  63. Google tells me it's 1:30 in Paris right now..

  64. ....mind you I do like French lady librarians - a trip to France without visiting a library would be quite unacceptable......and Edith Piaf...no no I take it all back.

  65. @deano

    I'm curious now. I've just been trying to find out if Paris and London were on the same time in 1918, and it's surprisingly difficult. They both introduced daylight saving time in 1916, but I'm not sure whether they were synchronised before that.

    But it'll nag at me until I know, so give me a while and I'll dig it out.

  66. Peter/deano/thaum

    Didn't they mess around with the clocks too during the wars, or was that just WWII?

  67. ......what time did our Euro friends observe as the 11am silence today? or do they just ignore it these days?

  68. @deano:

    It's observed at 11h00 local time.

  69. Here's a couple of poems from North of the Border.

    The first by Charles Sorley is an appeal to the common brotherhood of the German soldiers and Allied soldiers.

    The second- a bitter, coruscating attack on 'the cult of the dead' and the bitter aftermath of the war by the always knowingly challenging, contrary and corrosive Hugh MacDiarmid (who fought in Salonika):

    To Germany- Charles Sorley

    You are blind like us. Your hurt no man designed,
    And no man claimed the conquest of your land.
    But gropers both through fields of thought confined
    We stumble and we do not understand.
    You only saw your future bigly planned,
    And we, the tapering paths of our own mind,
    And in each other's dearest ways we stand,
    And hiss and hate. And the blind fight the blind.

    When it is peace, then we may view again
    With new-won eyes each other's truer form
    And wonder. Grown more loving-kind and warm
    We'll grasp firm hands and laugh at the old pain,
    When it is peace. But until peace, the storm
    The darkness and the thunder and the rain.

    At the Cenotaph- Hugh MacDiarmid

    Are the living so much use
    That we need to mourn the dead?
    Or would it yield better results
    To reverse their roles instead?
    The millions slain in the War -
    Untimely, the best of our seed? -
    Would the world be any the better
    If they were still living indeed?
    The achievemenets of such as are
    To the notion lend no support;
    The whole history of life and death
    Yields no scrap of evidence for't. -
    Keep going to your wars, you fools, as of yore;
    I'm the civilization you're fighting for.

  70. Aha! France adopted GMT as its official civil time in 1911, so after daylight saving in 1916 both countries would seem to have been synchronised at 11am in November 1918.

    So when did French civil time move an hour? More digging required.

  71. The treatment of the so-called 'Conchies' was appalling in the Great War.And a number died as a result of their ill treament.

    In WW2 their treatment was better and i understand a number were decorated for bravery whilst under fire in non combatant roles.Nevertheless they were still viewed as pariahs in some sectors of civilian life but interestingly those working as orderlies in the armed services rarely had any problems.

    WW2 also saw this country's first female 'Conchies'.Conscription was introduced for women in December 1941 with all able bodied childless women aged 20-30 having to go into the auxilary armed services whilst those up to 45-excluding those with children under 14-had to do war work in civvy street.Those young women who refused to either go into the forces or do any form of non combatant war work were -like their male counterparts-imprisoned.Although the numbers were very small.

  72. "..The Armistice was agreed at 5 AM on ...

    I would have been fucked off if my loved one got it, as some did, in the hours up to 11 am.

    I think I said on the 11/11 last year it must have been tough for Wilf Owen's (and others) folks who got the knock on the door and telegram on the 11th

  73. @Dotterell

    I know they had double summertime in WW2.Not sure about WW1.

  74. ".... At least 73 COs (conscies.) died because of the harsh treatment they received; a number suffered long-term physical or mental illness...."

  75. And now I discover that France only adopted summer clock changes in the mid-1970s.

  76. @Dott and Paul

    In WW2 the clocks stayed at GMT+1 throughout, and GMT+2 in summer. In WW1 they were at GMT until May 1916, then GMT+1 in summer (changed back to GMT after the war, I think - something else to check!).

  77. @deano

    Nice find. That confirms the adoption of GMT in 1911, and summer time in 1916 at roughly the same time as Britain. So 11am on 11/11/18 was at the same time in both countries.

    Thank Dawkins for that!

  78. Thinking about my Grandad today.

    He lied about his age and signed up with the King's Own Scottish Borderers at the age of 16, and was injured in the Somme.

    Perhaps he knew your Great-Uncle, Spike? He told the tale about how he was injured in no-man's land, with a part of his hip blown off, and how brave the medics were to come ducking under a hail of shell-fire to carry him to safety.

    Dulce et decorum est... Hmm.

    Oh, and fuck off Bitey.

  79. Apologies to Deano. I meant to post a comment crediting him with today's image. I put one up that included the stories of two great uncles who were WW II veterans (in the US we now acknowledge all veterans on this day). Decided that those stories might seem a bit random & self-indulgent, so I deleted that comment. By the time I'd done so, well -- other comments had gone up and I decided to just go to bed for the night.

    Uncle Ron, a Seabee in the Pacific theatre.
    Uncle Buck, a bombardier in the European theatre.

    I'm fairly certain that neither of them would have said it was a "Good War".

  80. AB

    If I download that and it's pr0n, you are a dead man!

  81. Sorry - Should I have put a warning on it or sumfink?

  82. NSFWS - not safe for weak stomachs! :o)

  83. Have now got to go out in what looks like a solid wall of grey water.

    Is it the end of the world and nobody fuggin' told me?

  84. I wouldn't know, AB.

    But I have been a bit worried about that big wooden ship my neighbour has been building in his garden...

  85. "......A Conservative councillor was arrested over a message on his private Twitter account calling for a newspaper columnist to be stoned to death, police said today.

    Gareth Compton, councillor for Erdington, Birmingham, was questioned and released on bail following his arrest last night.

    A spokeswoman for West Midlands Police said: "We can confirm a 38-year-old man from Harborne has been arrested for an offence under section 127 (1a) of the Communications Act of 2003 on suspicion of sending an offensive or indecent message.

    "He has been bailed pending further inquiries."

    The post on Mr Compton's profile on the micro-blogging site, which has since been removed, reportedly read: "Can someone please stone Yasmin Alibhai-Brown to death? I shan't tell Amnesty if you don't. It would be a blessing, really." ".....

    Source: news in the Indie

  86. Just looked at the thread on yesterday's protest. Some good posts from people who were there. Usual rubbish from the likes of divesandlazarus.

    On the violence, its understandable but not helpful. I call to mind Trotsky's remark about 'mistaking the third month of pregnancy for the last'. A few idiots went on an ultra left binge and of course that what the media concentrate on.

    I've said it before - a riot is not a revolution, riots weaken our side and strengthen the ruling class who can gain the 'sympathy vote' from the ignorant. We need to persuade people that our cause is just this isn't the way to do it.

    I am not arguing against violence as such, but this action simply handed the govt a propaganda tool on a plate. It is the capitalist state that is violent, we should reserve our strength until we are in a position to defeat it.

    But there will be more of this, its inevitable people feel helpless in the face of a government that is determined to make the poor and vulnerable pay for the crisis.

    We need organised opposition it and will have to be outside parliament.

    Cameron is demanding that a 'student' who threw a fire extinguisher be tried for manslaughter.

    We all know that the police killed Blair Peach and Ian Tomlinson. No demands for their deaths to be properly investigated and the perpetrators punished.

    Even handed aren't they? Obvious whose side they are on. They are organised we are not...

    But its building, as others have said we badly need an organisation, a leadership that will unite all those in society that will be hurt by condem policies...



    always worth repeating.

  88. Anne

    "Cameron is demanding that a 'student' who threw a fire extinguisher be tried for manslaughter."


    As far as I am aware, the fire extinguisher didn't hit anyone. Surely the whole purpose of manslaughter legislation is that someone has to be dead? Or is he calling for a charge of Attempt or Conspiracy to Commit?

    Bloody idiot.


    always worth repeating.

    hi Deanno,,here is another contrast

    we are generational,,they are dynastic,,personal history for 'WE' is one or two generations,,personal history for 'THEY' is
    400 years of family estates,,so no matter what kind of badguy they look like today,,personal history will show them as good guys eventually,,which is how they can have such thick skins and closed ears to todays condemnation,,
    any one of you eloquent people who can see the
    (possibly) significant idea here, might please paraphrase it so its legible,,

  90. We know how to treat our heroes:

    Thomas Whitham VC

    "...Feted upon his return home, he received a gold watch from Burnley Borough Council and a clock from Worsthorne Parish Council.

    But his final years were blighted by misfortune. He was refused a job by the former Burnley Corporation and was forced to leave the area to look for work.

    Later he pawned his VC medal and the watch to make ends meet. He died in poverty in Oldham aged just 36.

    His medal and the watch were later bought back by the borough council, which were then placed on display, with the clock, at Towneley Hall..."

    Source:Lancashire Telegraph

    Of course things have changed since WWI:-

    "....Figures from the ministries of Justice and Defence estimate that about 2,500 veterans are in prison – about 3.5 per cent of the total prison population in England and Wales.

    However, the National Association of Probation Officers claims that across the UK there are 8,500 military veterans in custody – about 8 per cent of the prison population. Its figures suggest there are another 12,000 veterans on probation or parole....."

    Source:Indie News

  91. Afternoon all - grey walls of water here to AB - a thoroughly dreich day.

    I've always rather liked this Sassoon poem

    Base Details

    If I were fierce, and bald, and short of breath,
    I'd live with scarlet Majors at the Base,
    And speed glum heroes up the line to death.
    You'd see me with my puffy petulant face,
    Guzzling and gulping in the best hotel,
    Reading the Roll of Honour. "Poor young chap,'
    I'd say - 'I used to know his father well;
    Yes, we've lost heavily in this last scrap.'
    And when the war is done and youth stone dead,
    I'd toddle safely home and die - in bed.


    I know what you're saying and I agree up to a point but you can guarantee that if all had gone off peacefully they would have been lucky to even get a brief mention in the meeja - we'd barely have known it had happened.

    The groan's headline today was "This is just the beginning" - which has a certain ring about it don't you think, the point of which might start concentrating a few minds.

  92. "...his final years were blighted by misfortune..."

    The fucking PR machine of these bastards is amazing ....death in poverty....ah a blight and a mere misfortune.!

    Hi 3P4 - good to see you. I think we are mining the same vein!

  93. This comment has been removed by the author.

  94. Pretty that little Elephant Shrew Dot. What's the funding like for projects like that one and will it be safe do you think?

  95. BB / Anne - attempted murder, is the call, per here

    notably the video footage also makes it clear that the bulk of the protest on the ground were telling those on the roof to pack it in.

  96. deano

    a poem by Ivor Gurney speaks to that

    Strange Hells

    There are strange Hells within the minds War made
    Not so often, not so humiliatingly afraid
    As one would have expected - the racket and fear guns made.

    One Hell the Gloucester soldiers they quite put out;
    Their first bombardment, when in combined black shout
    Of fury, their guns aligned, they ducked low their heads
    And sang with diaphragms fixed beyond all dreads,
    That tin and stretched-wire tinkle, that blither of tune;
    'Apres la guerre fini' till Hell all had come down,
    Twelve-inch, six-inch and eighteen pounders hammering
    Hell's thunders.

    Where are they now on State-doles, or showing shop patterns
    Or walking town to town sore in borrowed tatterns
    Or begged. Some civic routine one never learns.
    The heart burns - but has to keep out of face how heart burns.

  97. Sheff,

    It depends really: mostly that website is to get that funding, and raise awareness, some of the cuter/weirder species are doing ok, but they all need help!

    I was just shamelessly plugging it in the hope you'd all get talking about it!

  98. Sheff

    What's the funding like for projects like that one and will it be safe do you think?

    Don't know about that one particularly, but do remember a schoolkid some years ago approaching various yoof-friendly slebs, asking if they would be willing to be associated with highlighting endangered animals and fundraising for their salvation.

    The nice fluffy, cutesie creatures were over-subscribed with clamouring boy-bands and children's TV presenters.

    When it came to tghe slugs and snails and the poor little things which crawl or slither on their stomachs or stumpy little deformed feet, it was pretty much: "Nah! You're all right, mate."

    Oh, hang on!

    Am I getting this confused with our political masters?

    Shurely shome mishtake!

  99. Sorry, Dotterel.

    Not sure whether my comment will help now.

  100. They're also doing this

    Children's book for politicians: about the right level n'est pas?

  101. You raise an interesting point AB: we've been locked into the "they'll only donate if it's fluffy" cycle for a while now, Jonathan Baillie (the guy in the meeting) was saying people are starting to care more about other species (mostly the weird ones but we can also sell them on "evolutionarily distinct"!

  102. Phil

    Attempted murder would make more sense. I can't see how you can attempt manslaughter. Mens rea and all that.

    All interesting stuff, though. The guy was a complete wassock for doing it no matter what.

    Reminds me of that terrible case of the 10 yr olds on the top of a tower block who thought it would be funny to drop a paving slab off the side - which hit and killed a woman.

  103. there's a woman on PM right now, practically apologising for having MS, as she prepares for a 'work-focussed interview'.

  104. BB - thought there was no such thing as attempted manslaughter because manslaught contains no intention. so you can't attempt it, or that would show intention, or something.

  105. Dotterel

    ...but we can also sell them on "evolutionarily distinct"!

    Yes, you certainly don't want to let people draw any connection with these creatures being "evolutionary losers", otherwise they are just going to find gangs lining up to give them a kicking to help them on their way to extinction.

  106. meanwhile, other women being interviewed afterwards - "half of them in there could work". turning on each other. that's how they like it...

  107. Phillipa

    I'm listening to it too - grinding my teeth!!

  108. "the division between working and not working will be eroded - we'll get rid of it" - minister.


    really, what?

  109. "they've given up because it's possible to live on benefits..."

    erm. so your alternative is? make it not possible?

  110. sheff - i have a feeling i'll be posting a lot of what is said, as i can't quite f-ing believe it, and need to check if i'm just being dim...

  111. "we don't believe hardly anyone would actually suffer the third sanction"

    SO WHY DO IT???????

  112. ..."The Third Sanction", featuring Clint Eastwood...

  113. BB and others

    Didn't Cameron, when the hoodie pretended to shoot him from behind some years ago, basically in public say something like: "Yes, isn't he an endearing and boisterous young scamp!" and then tell the police to send him to Guantanamo and throw away the, er, rubber-dinghy?


    ...turning on each other. that's how they like it...

    Yes, quite so.

    The question is, have they got the timing right?

    Have we lost our ability to co-operate and unite in our selfish, slavering to succeed as hard-nosed pioneers in the wilderness?

    I suppose we will find out in due course.

  114. Just clocked his full title(s)

    Welfare Reform Minister

    Lord Freud

    is the 'irony button' switched to 'off' at Millbank or something?

  115. Phillipa
    An awful lot of assumptions being made by L Freud about how these 'agreements' with the unemployed are going to work. Will they actually remove benefits from say a single mother with children if she doesn't actively seek work? - one assumption seemed to be that if they weren't 'actively seeking etc...then they must have an alternative income....

    There seemed to be very little clarity about how it'll all work

  116. Philippa - can't be arsed looking for the exact quotation, but Dave1 today expressed his horror about the students occupying Tory HQ - there were people I know in there!

    None of whom were endangered at all as far as I can tell.

    So it's perfectly all right to shit on millions of people from a great height, but a few people Dave knows who might have had a wee fright (or not): that's terrible!

  117. AB

    About 210 Million years ago there lived a small shrew like creature, distinct from everything else, that might've been called an "evolutionary dead end" at the time, that eventually inherited the earth...

    (Sorry guys I do care about the welfare stuff I'm just speechless about it all!)

  118. Ahh! Lord Fraud! I might have guessed.

    I am not listening but I can well imagine what the buffoon is spouting.

    - and yes, you can't possibly attempt manslaughter. I was having a silly moment earlier. Been busy this afternoon flinging emails about, negotiating with the treasury sols who wanted me to withdraw a JR (listed for oral application tomorrow) on their terms - eventually got it on my terms. Whoohooo! So my mind has not been on the game really.

    I really bloody hate it when real life gets in the way of the internet... :p

  119. sheff - well, if you are turning down jobs (which implies 'actively seeking' to actually get them to write to you) it must be because you are running an international drugs ring out of your bedsit. the kids do the bagging up. obvious, isn't it.

    it's 'thin end of the wedge' - why does "well, we'll only use it if we really have to" sound familiar? they'll put it on the books, say in the press that they won't do it, but the law won't say anything of the kind and they will, they will, end up leaving people penniless.

  120. Thaum - apparently at the first sign of trouble the whole building was evacuated yesterday. I should imagine they were glad of a free afternoon off! It was a lovely day! :o)

  121. it occurred to me earlier on the deb orr thread - this 'big society' bollocks, well, there's a kernel of truth in it. the stuff that churches, community groups, charities, etc etc etc have been doing for f-ing years. they've always been a safety net. but they've previously been the 'last barrier' before the precipice, tha back-up 'chute, if you will.

    now they'll be the only one. that can't hold.

  122. Back at home at last. Just a comment on the student riot yesterday. On Channel4 they had the NUS president (I think) and some government minister. The government bod refused to speak directly to the NUS guy! It had to be done via the reporter. The NUS seemed reasonable, he disowned (in my view too strongly) the rioting, he also pointed out when the reporter was incorrect and had all the facts. But what is this when the government won't even talk to an elected rep from the students? Sounds like fascism to me, something that reeks. I don't know why but I have a chilling shudder up my spine when this happens. I think of that film 'Sophie Scholl' that is factually based on students who distributed leaflets in Munich.

  123. apparently at the first sign of trouble the whole building was evacuated

    Bloody hell - we have regular (but usually quite small) demos outside our building. I'll have to tell them to up their game - I could do with an afternoon off.

  124. Dotterel

    About 210 Million years ago there lived a small shrew like creature, distinct from everything else, that might've been called an "evolutionary dead end" at the time, that eventually inherited the earth...


    If we had been able to send the boot-boys in at the time, we wouldn't have mice scurrying around scaring the poor elephants now, would we?

    [I am on the right track on this one, aren't I?]

  125. "[I am on the right track on this one, aren't I?]"

    Nearly AB......

  126. now they'll be the only one. that can't hold

    no it can't - all the churches and charities that I know round here are already really stretched to breaking. Assist - the asylum charity that I've worked with have seen their funding drop over the last year.

  127. Woohoo!

    Meerkat cheesecake clingfilm Jaffa Cake!

    I am the winner!

    In evolutionary terms, obviously.

  128. Dot

    Having had to clean up an ill and distressed colleagues vomit at work this morning, I feel brave enough to offer support to an uncuddly creepy crawly that needs support. If you can think of one.

  129. IanG

    The government bod refused to speak directly to the NUS guy! It had to be done via the reporter.

    Sounds like - in an attempt to appear aloof and Olympian - the political scum has achieved an unforced PR disaster.

    I think it was Tybo who, over at the other place, has just pointed out that the poll tax riots actually brought an end to an iniquitous tax and the political demise of that bat-shit crazy old evolutionary dead-end.

    Channel 4 News will soon be handing out bicycle-clips to those interviewed.

  130. Just scanned this thread and the other place..which definitely isn't the preserve of a small self-serving clique; no matter how many new and disinterested posters claim it is; no matter how many more ludicrous attempts are made to vet anyone new turning up (why isn't this being cracked down on btw? why are these people allowed to challenge new posters and insist on examining their credentials? why on earth would the mods allow this to continue? just who the fuck do these people think they are..and why is CIF seemingly happy to condone it?)

    Is it some kinda new guideline?

    Rule 11 "New posters will be challenged by an unhinged moron who has proved himself a deluded bigot on many many occasions...and...unless said Muppet is happy with your particulars we will allow him and his little clique of fellow dipsticks to abuse you mercilessly"

    Seriously...unless these fuckin idiots are being accorded special privileges, then why on earth are they allowed to get away with it?

    But anyway...I'm reading between the lines here...but it seems I might have been accused by an eminent ex psychologist and all round fuckin genius (who, of course can spot an imposter a mile off...it's all soc rep duh whatevs)of being meerkatjie. I'm not.

    I'm starting to think that lot are some kinda fundamentalist sect...only explanation I can come up with for their completely baffling and disproportionate reactions to any hint of criticism...well...either that or they're just all a bit dumb. Well anyway...next time they decide they've been 'mortally insulted' can't they go down one of the the usual routes...burning a few books or attacking a Danish cartoonist with an axe or some such...rather than boring the shit out of everyone with their ridiculous theories and boasting about their heightened powers of perception and detection...when it turns out they're completely fuckin 180 degrees off course and kilter..*sigh*

  131. Armistice Day - have been thinking about all the dead, maimed and mutilated. Those from long ago wars and all those who's names will be added to the roll call by this time next year.

    We somehow need to get away from the 'cute and cuddly need saving' to showing people the wonders of the complexities of the despised, feared and ignored - be it people or animals. All have the right to live and all have a right to share the planet.

    the beetle feels the sun on his back.

  132. monkeyfish

    My own take is that they are not operating under any approval, but to the shuddering embarrassment and squirming disbelief of those they imagine are their virtual buddies and sponsors.

    It's the online equivalent of visiting Bedlam these days.

  133. Sheff,

    Thank you! You can choose your own from the website, but how about the Bactrian camel Apparently they're underfunded because everyone thinks camels are ten a penny! Or For something really creepy crawly, there's always the Sagalla Caecilian

    AB, your prize is to go and sponsor a small shrew like mammal, and think about what you've done ;-)

  134. Hello everyone; just plonking this from "agreewith" on the IDS thread;

    Ascribing a Fascist ideology might not be too far from the truth (however uncomfortable for you that may be), The Wiki definition is informative:

    Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy

    Well that's fairly accurate.

    Fascism was originally founded by Italian national syndicalists in World War I who combined extreme right-wing political views along with collectivism

    Hence the Big Society?

    Fascists believe that a nation is an organic community that requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong

    I see no substantive difference so far...

    Recommend? (150)
    Report abuse
    | Link

    The irony of the timing of the release of this white paper is truly nauseating.

  135. Dotterel

    ..and think about what you've done ;-)

    Could you just run this thinking lark by me before I get my hopes up?

    I don't mind trying anything once, but we're entering unknown territory here.

  136. Dot

    Wonderful site - I/m spoilt for choice.

  137. "My own take is that they are not operating under any approval, but to the shuddering embarrassment and squirming disbelief of those they imagine are their virtual buddies and sponsors."

    Well yeah..I wouldn't have thought they had approval but now I'm not so sure. I think I once saw GIYUS explain after some furious badgering by fencewalker, or some other upstanding member of the community, exactly what he meant by SPAM. He said that whether or not they were in-house paid ringers, they might as well be. Where else would you get a bunch of saps like that prepared to put themselves through the logistical and moral contortions required to always 'on balance' come down on the side of the Graun?

    Obviously some of them do it cos they like being in a gang..some cos they're desperate to go ATL..."Jess, how about we get an English speaking Spanish resident to write a piece on the renowned poet Manual Something or other?"

    but either way...why do the mods let it stand...and why doesn't Jess weigh in with one of her schoolmarm type admonitions...a mystery to me tbh.

  138. Jenn

    Sit down before you click on this link


  139. dot - i'd guess camels don't get the funding because they look bloody hard and people reckon they can look after themselves...

    remember at school we were looking at insects and there was lots of 'urgh'-ing and squealing and stuff. biology teacher sighed, said to the chief squealer, i thought you liked animals?"
    "yeah, when they're furry"
    a deeper sigh.
    "mould's furry. would that do?"

    funding always affected by the 'cuddly' - animal charities > kids' charities, kids' charities > charities for the elderly, etc etc etc .

  140. Leni,

    "We somehow need to get away from the 'cute and cuddly need saving' to showing people the wonders of the complexities of the despised, feared and ignored - be it people or animals. All have the right to live and all have a right to share the planet"

    Thank you for neatly and poetically linking the thread together!

    AB, it's simple really, you just rub one brain cell against another..........

  141. Sheff - ewwww. Well done.

    MF - think it was the Brussels muppet who assumed that Meerkatjie was you. Pen hinted at a Danish connection, as I recall.

  142. monkeyfish

    I would think the mods are quite happy to just delete whatever is sent to them via the "report abuse" button (without looking or checking, obviously) without volunteering for anything more arduous.

    JezzaBella did say that they will bring in a separate "spill yer brainz" thread for the dribblers, but she promptly banned me under whatever disguise I was then employing when I pointed it out.

    We should remember, though, that Matt Seaton declared WADDYA something like the sacred heart of the internet (it might have been chromium bicycle sprocket - who cares?) so maybe it is inviolable.

    I think it is really there so people can point and stare and, well, be grateful, basically.

    On that level, it succeeds.

  143. Philippa,

    Yup, at work we keep talking about that Devon Donkey Sanctuary that gets 2 million quid a year and doesn't know what to do with it. We were thinking of putting donkey ears on a few endangered species.........

  144. i'm not a violent person but i would quite like to slap nick clegg right now.


  145. dot - ah yes.

    once received a large cheque for a specific donkey.

    colleague had a hell of a time talking the donor out of that one.

  146. Dott

    Suggest that the donkeys adopt another species perhaps - keep the money and the caring in circulation.

  147. Dotterel

    AB, it's simple really, you just rub one brain cell against another..........

    Ha! You won't catch me out that easily.

    I know that's how to make fire.

    I'm not going to risk catching my head alight for anyone.

  148. Right. Mosquitoes. Fuckers can die out as far as I'm concerned. Surely the species that feed on them can find something else?

    Snakes are OK as long as they're either separated by oceans or behind a lot of very thick, escape-proof glass. In which case, they're quite interesting in a creepy way. Sort of like seeing Hannibal Lecter behind bars ... oh wait.

  149. can't you just rename a couple of things? or they could go to the charity commission with a 'scheme' (that's kosher, btw, just what changes to practice are called) - anything sharing 98% of dna with a donkey count.

    that'd cover quite a lot of things, no?

  150. That's the one!

    BTW posted the above links on WADDYA, with "this is what I want to talk about" but of course being in premod it's not there yet. When (and if!) it appears (sometime after Sheff's 5:09) could you all recommend it if you approve please?

  151. Atomboy

    Matt Seaton declared WADDYA something like the sacred heart of the internet (it might have been chromium bicycle sprocket - who cares?)

    Ha ha ha!

    Dot - perhaps the donkey sanctuary could pass the money on to those "sponsor a donkey" charities in various third world countries where they not only help the donkeys, but the humans who rely on them for income? Or are they also over-funded?

  152. (Sorry "That's the one" was to Philippa's 18:14!)

    Leni/Philippa (18.15) not bad shouts, thauma don't get me started on mosquitoes and AB wrap a fire blanket around you head and then try it if you like!

  153. thauma - would guess not to the extent of nice local donkeys (mostly rescued from the beastly spanish. or blackpool). but probably still doing quite well, like that goat fuck-up from a couple of years back.

  154. Dot

    My son being such a hippy child and all, in recent years at christmas he always asked for - and gets - a "present" that is actually some sort of donation to a useful charity. In the past it has been Save the Children, but given his love of all critters, perhaps I could get him to look at that EDGE site.

  155. Thauma, Philippa's right and BB yes please!

    (Watch Bitey accuse us of taking money from starving children now!)

    All: I'm off home for my tea, but through the wonders of a fixed home internet connection, will be back in an hour or so!

  156. Dot

    Think I'll take the Bactrian Camel - I've always liked camels. Although they're shit to ride and their breath smells - they do have real character. On the other hand - no one will love that worm...so maybe I'll take him on as well.

  157. Anyone got a Save the Hedgehogs fund? Cos the dog is disembowelling one as we speak.

    OK, it's only a stuffed hedgehog.

  158. @Dott

    I've always been fond of frogs. That little purple one looks promising to me.

  159. Dot - have sent website link to a friend who may be in a position to get a bit of publicity to animal lovers (SPCA members) in the state of New York.

  160. sheff - was just thinking of going for the elephant shrew, mostly because of it's full title.

    the golden-rumped elephant shrew.

    now that's a title.

  161. Interesting link from HelenWilsonMK on Waddya, demonstrating how a dramatic news photo might not be as spontaneous as it looks:

    Is it real or is it Banksy?

  162. Dot - I'll mention Edge to our class at school: they had to choose a category of charity to support in PSHE recently, and they chose animal - but we're doing South America as a topic & I noticed there are a few S. American frogs etc needing help on the list...

  163. Phillipa

    The golden rumped elephant shrew sounds to me like the description of some sloany apparatchik at tory central office which slightly put me off!

  164. Just made donation - couldn't really avoid it, having seen that they had a wombat on the list.

  165. Evening!

    "golden rumped elephant shrew" sounds like Vince!

    How does one do links, bolds and italics here, is it html code or some thing else?


  166. oops I really should have hit that preview button before the paste one!

  167. hello timboktu!
    (different handle at the other place? just trying to keep up)

    aye, <

    and >

    (let's see if the red warning message pops up...)

  168. no, no, hang on, i know this one - joy division album cover....is....


    dreadful memory for names

  169. Habit - I've posted as Timboktutu for years, the other place I registered as me - must have had a brain fart or something, still I'm not important for anything to come up on Google - I do get asked if I am the artist a lot, to which I reply "maybe" ~chortles~

  170. but i do recall i was going to complement you on it the other day, then got sidetracked.

    it's not bencaute, he's a photo.
    argh, it's a real name.
    no, come on, tell, tell.


    had to bloody go and check. which means I am now aware that bencaute is a flower.

    have that. vinyl. lovely.

  172. ah, yes, that's what I meant - visual mind. so everyone 'is' their avatar.

    which led to confusion in the pub recently when it turned out shaz doesn't have paws. anyway.

  173. am just listening to football weekly, which reminds me that i didn't go online after the match, due to fringe being on (according to dvd extras, they try to make sure everything is - best sit down, dot - 'based on actual science').

    have we seen peterj today or did he die of boredom?
    i was only saved by having a chocolate waffle stashed in my bag.

  174. ...of course we have on this very thread, duh...

    sorry. bit 'up' tonight, get easily distracted.

    ooh, squirrel!


  175. Philippa - being the veteran of a few meet-ups now, I answer as easily to 'Thauma' in real life as I do to my own name. ;-)

  176. @Philippa

    Didn't watch it in the end. I had a premonition of boredom, and besides, there was a bloody storm going on outside. As Gary Lineker once said, it was more exciting on Teletext (read BBC live blog plus radio).

  177. A word to the wise from working-class intelllectual NapK on Cif:

    Sometimes a little bit of inebriation is nice, I never get hammered mind, but a nice class of wine before reading a novel, watching an arthouse film, socialising with friends etc is is conducive to having a relaxed time.

    Some of you horrible drunken chavs could learn a lot from this admirable young chap.

  178. peterj - fortunately we were joined by a group of mates, several of whom have absolutely no interest in football at all, but it was still rather a downbeat experience.

    FWE intro "police search started for nation's will to live" pretty accurate.

    then had problems when met oisette in another bar because she was pissed and got cuddly and some people don't like that kind of thing...


  179. Some people are bastards, Philippa. Hope it wasn't too bad.

    Cannot for the life of me understand why some people are so interested in other people's private lives.

    My next-door neighbour is yer classic net curtain twitcher but somehow he never seems to see any good out of his windows, only bad.

  180. lol

    The posting by the local car crash on Cif where he makes real threats - and going through all the post I think he might have been called a bunny boiler, no real diagnosis is depressing - why is that comment still there? Are their mods really that bad?

  181. thauma - was too tired to bother speaking french, but think they got the general effect from the nice anglo-saxon plosive 'ck' sounds and my general demeanour.

    (you've met me - i ent little, heheheheh. just glad it was me and not her who walked out of the bar alone - she is little - and then more mates turned up and then she got walked home.)

  182. Welcome newbies, the marmalade, feathers and ball gags (for your initiation rites) should arrive by courier tmra. ; )

    Students, the first crack in the dam/own goal?


    Get it right round 'em!
    "It's not a big thing. It's a small thing, what people think!" : )

    Love the poems, what better today? 2p'orth;

    Undivided Loyalty

    Nothing is worth dying for.
    Some people would rather
    Be dead than Red.
    But I would simply rather
    Not be dead.

    I would not die for Britain
    Or any land. Why should I?
    I only happened to be born there.
    Emigré, banished, why should I defend
    A land I never chose, that never wanted me?

    I might have been born anywhere-
    In mid-Pacific or in Ecuador.
    I would not die for the world.
    Jesus was wrong.
    Only nothing is worth dying for.


  183. Phil

    Re: you and oisette and people not liking that kind of thing - what the fuck is wrong with people? Grrrr.

    Also seen you Grrrr-ing about the Operation Sapphire fiasco. After spending an evening saying inter alia "women must report rape, it's the only way" on a thread the other night, I am now feeling a bit sick...