tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post6802554832303319370..comments2023-05-21T15:20:58.352+01:00Comments on The Untrusted: 11/11/10Montana Wildhackhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11409705185204787671noreply@blogger.comBlogger373125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-44206199368395213272010-11-12T11:58:23.316+00:002010-11-12T11:58:23.316+00:00Yes, a nice romantic touch, as opposed to parents ...Yes, a nice romantic touch, as opposed to parents getting their kid a greater education via hard graft.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-59304100345447428472010-11-12T07:24:00.358+00:002010-11-12T07:24:00.358+00:00Chekhov/hevers/Montana - (from late yesterday).......<b>Chekhov/hevers/Montana</b> - (from late yesterday)....<br /><br />I assure you all that I think carpenters are fine, admirable and useful people - I wish I had their skills.<br /><br />Twas indeed as interpreted by Montana and hevers - carpenters are a happy break out from what might be seen as a stereotypical public school career path. <br /><br />Likewise I'm fairly confident that joining the French CP is not that common either ....but still a grand expression of individuals developing and triumphing over expectations<br /><br />No conspiracies either - I just thought it would be a nice romantic touch to find a bank robber plying the trade to get herm kids a wining educationdeano30https://www.blogger.com/profile/12637249297224887297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-69674307153503151392010-11-12T05:11:55.829+00:002010-11-12T05:11:55.829+00:00Yeah, I don't think Deano was dissing carpente...Yeah, I don't think Deano was dissing carpenters. It was more like he was trying to say that just because we went to schools that in his opinion drilled us daily in all the tools of oppression, that this didn't mean that all of us had succumbed to this intense programme to turn us into the Jason Bournes of the establishment, simply waiting for the code word and we would all throw aside our pinstripes and bowler hats and defend the establishment to the last.<br /><br />This training didn't work very well, because quite a few of us just wanted to be in a band. <br /><br />But Deano seems also to seems to cast doubt on the the fact I migrated from state school, or else my parents might be bank robbers. Which is nice.<br /><br />Conspiracies abound.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-56707960591389483172010-11-12T04:39:38.150+00:002010-11-12T04:39:38.150+00:00Nothing's wrong with being a carpenter. Both ...Nothing's wrong with being a carpenter. Both of my grandfathers* and one great-grandfather were carpenters. I don't think Deano meant to imply that anything <i>is</i> wrong with being a carpenter -- merely that public schools tend not to see that as a typical career path for their students?<br /><br />*In case anyone recalls me talking about my maternal grandfather being an engineer for the railroad: on the days when he wasn't on a run, he built houses. The man worked pretty much every waking hour of his life, starting at age 14 when he left school.Montana Wildhackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11409705185204787671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-66389347552288771192010-11-12T04:05:35.581+00:002010-11-12T04:05:35.581+00:00Expectations are of course not always fulfilled Sp...Expectations are of course not always fulfilled Spike joined the French CP and Chekhov became a carpenter <br />What's wrong with becoming a carpenter?chekhovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12579841013364541334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-55940220501761135252010-11-12T02:34:54.682+00:002010-11-12T02:34:54.682+00:00deano30 said...
I look forward, with interest, to ...deano30 said...<br /><i>I look forward, with interest, to learning how you got from a council estate Primary school to a Public one (if you want to tell us that is)<br /><br /><br /><br />dad a bank robber/pools winner by any chance?</i><br /><br />Both my parents worked, and paid for me to go to a prep school for a couple of years to take the Common Entrance Exams. <br /><br />Later, the Public School stepped in to help with the fees.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-46578294481788009892010-11-12T02:31:33.315+00:002010-11-12T02:31:33.315+00:00deano30 said...
I'd agree with all of that, D...deano30 said...<br /><br />I'd agree with all of that, Deano, although even at the top public schools, the majority still do not make it into Oxbridge and are more liable to wind up in a Russell. <br /><br />And the top school's are very selective in the first place, though some get in anyway for other reasons.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-42604801226050430212010-11-12T02:24:28.824+00:002010-11-12T02:24:28.824+00:00I look forward, with interest, to learning how you...I look forward, with interest, to learning how you got from a council estate Primary school to a Public one (if you want to tell us that is)<br /><br /><br /><br />dad a bank robber/pools winner by any chance?deano30https://www.blogger.com/profile/12637249297224887297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-50552276129182054332010-11-12T02:19:20.207+00:002010-11-12T02:19:20.207+00:00I've enjoyed the exchanges...... lets put it t...I've enjoyed the exchanges...... lets put it this way.....the major Public Schol/Oxbridge model is the one that the minor Public School/Russell Uni's seek to emulate.<br /><br /><br /><br />we have lots to do to make a fairer societydeano30https://www.blogger.com/profile/12637249297224887297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-89301806646990417452010-11-12T02:10:56.944+00:002010-11-12T02:10:56.944+00:00deano30 said...
There is no finer example of them ...deano30 said...<br /><i>There is no finer example of them and us ...than the Bullingdon Club....dining club my arse blood bonding more like</i><br /><br />Yes, but again, that was not typical of most public schools. There were many dining societies, but not usually with one school predominating.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-74327207259985875792010-11-12T02:07:10.752+00:002010-11-12T02:07:10.752+00:00I do not dispute, Deano, that the public schools a...I do not dispute, Deano, that the public schools assist allowing the privileged to maintain their position. <br /><br />The main mechanism by which they do this, is to allow greater prospects for Oxbridge entry.<br /><br />Although to be honest, they can just as easily hamper at times. <br /><br />As far as the Empire test was concerned, there wasn't much training on it. A couple of sessions, then you took the test. You either passed or you didn't. It was more a case of screening, than trying to develop capability. <br /><br />But hey, I can't prove it, one way or the other.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-68650063396193789472010-11-12T02:01:30.538+00:002010-11-12T02:01:30.538+00:00There is no finer example of them and us ...than t...There is no finer example of them and us ...than the Bullingdon Club....dining club my arse blood bonding more likedeano30https://www.blogger.com/profile/12637249297224887297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-83500648299080980402010-11-12T01:58:04.835+00:002010-11-12T01:58:04.835+00:00princesschipchops said...
Hevers - Good points in...princesschipchops said...<br /><br /><i>Hevers - Good points indeed. Especially this; ''Hence, despite considerable GDP growth, wages in real terms have stagnated for agss.''<br /><br />In fact if you look at the Great Depression a similar mechanism happened before that crisis. </i><br /><br />Yeah, they always try to say that "This time it will be different!!" <br /><br />Like with banking. "We have eliminated risk!! So let us do our neoliberal thing, and it will all be wonderful. No intervention is needed!!!"<br /><br />The solution to the workfare is simple: more decent jobs. Point that out and you get a litany of excuses for why we cannot have them. None of them wash.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-75536548433330414782010-11-12T01:56:47.863+00:002010-11-12T01:56:47.863+00:00Hevers - I think we are in broad agreement.... as ...Hevers - I think we are in broad agreement.... as you say all those years of charitable status give the public schools a head start<br /><br />I'd expect the establishment to make it as comfortable and advantageous for its sons as possible - the <i>quid pro quo</i> is come the need to man the barricades you public schoolboys are expected to know which side your shooting at....<br /><br />Expectations are of course not always fulfilled Spike joined the French CP and Chekhov became a carpenterdeano30https://www.blogger.com/profile/12637249297224887297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-29940527440890784882010-11-12T01:46:42.035+00:002010-11-12T01:46:42.035+00:00deano30 said...
Oh sure, the public schools are t...deano30 said...<br /><br />Oh sure, the public schools are the hunting ground for officers, but that doesn't alter the fact that for most schools, there are vastly more pressing things to spend money on than a shooting range.<br /><br />I shall ask my girlfriend, who's a head teacher, how many things she would rather buy for her school before a shooting range, if you like.<br /><br />I mean, I know she did an order for some books recently, and they need some more sockets in the classrooms, and they could do with a new printer, but maybe they can squeeze a shooting range in, not that they have the room in the grounds for one anyway, being an inner city school. <br /><br />At the public school I went to though, the playing fields stretched for a mile and a half. The difference is just fucking ridiculous.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-18190644124099825182010-11-12T01:40:29.191+00:002010-11-12T01:40:29.191+00:00I to the Vizzo said...
We're the 6th richest...I to the Vizzo said...<br /><br /><br /><i>We're the 6th richest country in the world.</i><br /><br />So? Many countries have been rich based on circumstance, and then... not been rich any more.<br /><br />And there is lots of wealth, concentrated in a few hands. Fifty percent of the population earn less than the median, around 24k. Ninety percent of the population earn less than 45k. <br /><br />And as for ASSETS, even more concentrated. So yeah, rich as a NATION, but in terms of the distribution...<br /><br /><br /><br /><i>Definitely more should be done, and should have been done, to preserve industry - but realistically we'll never be the workshop of the world again, that ship has long sailed</i><br /><br />We don't need to be the workshop of the world. We just need some more decent-paying jobs.<br /><br />You are trying to make out is some huge, herculean task, which is just a load of old balls.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-2473867554364019052010-11-12T01:39:11.271+00:002010-11-12T01:39:11.271+00:00I know the facilities aren't comparable.....
...I know the facilities aren't comparable.....<br /><br /><br />the OTC is predicated on the assumption that the officers of the grunts will (predominantly)come from the Public Schools that's why there isn't much call for the OTC in Comps<br /><br />good night friend.<br /><br />ps - Comp's don't do <i>'tradition'</i>deano30https://www.blogger.com/profile/12637249297224887297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-85671316044439111612010-11-12T01:35:44.384+00:002010-11-12T01:35:44.384+00:00Hevers - Good points indeed. Especially this; '...Hevers - Good points indeed. Especially this; ''Hence, despite considerable GDP growth, wages in real terms have stagnated for agss.''<br /><br />In fact if you look at the Great Depression a similar mechanism happened before that crisis. <br /><br />Vizzo. Neo-liberalism is a very dangerous ideology because it is based on crude monetarism and ideas of absolutes. It has two basic beliefs that are fundamentally flawed, that the market is always correct (and furthermore self correcting) and that economic events can be predicted and easily managed. Past and much more recent history tells us this is not so but still they cling to these beliefs.<br /><br />Deano - I hope the caravan doesn't rock too much tonight! I am off to try and sleep now but it is really lashing against the windows here (we face the peaks and the wind fair roars off them at times).princesschipchopshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18202815936353393398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-79565187816870844172010-11-12T01:29:58.546+00:002010-11-12T01:29:58.546+00:00deano30 said...
There are some clues .....most of...deano30 said...<br /><br /><i>There are some clues .....most of the army is made up of grunts ....grunts don't go to Public Schools ....grunts go to local Comp's.....local Comp's don't give the grunts access to guns and bullets and......... Empire Tests, well these tests ain't even in the vocabulary of grunts......</i><br /><br />Oh come on Deano, most local schools don't give access to fuck ALL in comparison. <br /><br />A shooting range is WAY down their list of priorities. <br /><br />Whereas at my school, they had hundreds of years of assets to leverage. I mean, never mind the shooting range, for just music we had a block of thirty practice rooms with a piano in each, and we had a thousand-seater concert hall.<br /><br />And that wasn't shared for theatre or gym or anything like that. We had a separate gym, a separate theatre. <br /><br />Whereas at my state primary school, music was a trolley with some tambourines and other things you hit and shake on it, shared thoughout the school. <br /><br />Shooting was a sport too, and our school had a tradition in it and used to win the nationals at Bisley often enough.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-71465673041432928232010-11-12T01:28:38.345+00:002010-11-12T01:28:38.345+00:00nutjobs indeed.
bdd time for me too - good night ...<i>nutjobs indeed.</i><br /><br />bdd time for me too - good night all.deano30https://www.blogger.com/profile/12637249297224887297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-39450631723422113932010-11-12T01:27:45.896+00:002010-11-12T01:27:45.896+00:00"Sure it does - sometimes, it also destroys w..."Sure it does - sometimes, it also destroys wealth. And a couple of years ago it managed to destroy wealth on a scale never seen before"<br />Hi Princess: it didn't destroy the wealth of the rich. On the contrary the reason we are now in such deep shit is 'coz we've allowed a minority of scum to commit daylight robbery. <br />The reason there is no money anymore is because the plutocrats have took the tax payers largesse and stashed it away in their dodgy but legal havens.<br />It's called a "stitch up" and bears all the hallmarks of a Mafia protection racket, as does IDS's welfare reform.<br /><br />Could someone remind me why we went to all the trouble of fighting the second world war to defeat the forces of fascism only to adopt them again on the anniversary of the armistice?chekhovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12579841013364541334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-49029644041786022502010-11-12T01:22:51.963+00:002010-11-12T01:22:51.963+00:00@Deano,
What worries me is the unquestioning acce...@Deano,<br /><br /><i>What worries me is the unquestioning acceptance of the Thatcher creed of TINA - especially by younger people like yourself.</i><br /><br />Dunno about Vizzo, but on the economics threads in tends to boil down to....<br /><br />- neoliberalism is easy to get your head around, because doing fuck all is easy to get your head around. Intervention and its knock-on effects is hard to get your head around<br /><br />- some of them imagine they will prevail gloriously in the survival of the fittest<br /><br />- quite a lot of them, having tried it, did not do so well is the survival race, and are looking for something else to blame, the public sector etc.<br /><br />- there are quite a lot of them retired or nearing it who think of themselves as benefiting from pulling up the ladder further<br /><br />- some have chosen your typical well-remunerated but vulture-like careers, and want to convince themselves it's all OK because nothing better is possible<br /><br />- they are nutjobs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-50806133407444810862010-11-12T01:21:35.538+00:002010-11-12T01:21:35.538+00:00"....but realistically we'll never be the...<i>"....but realistically we'll never be the workshop of the world again...."</i><br /><br />Obviously not - but we do need to recognise that when our jobs are taken overseas with your globalisation we start to loose our national skill base. And then all too quickly our national interest and possibility of self sufficiency is fatally compromised.<br /><br />A government that argues its first duty is defence of the people and then presides over the exporting of the national capital and skill base is talking out of its arsedeano30https://www.blogger.com/profile/12637249297224887297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-3515191345709977672010-11-12T01:02:26.156+00:002010-11-12T01:02:26.156+00:00I know the ship long sailed - did you know that t...I know the ship long sailed - did you know that the Japanese used to send students to Blackburn Technical College in the 1920's .....all for the stealing of the secrets of the textile industry....the great economies of the East did well out of our free exports of knowledge and know how.<br /><br />What worries me is the unquestioning acceptance of the Thatcher creed of TINA - especially by younger people like yourself.<br /><br />You cannot build a future on parochial service industries. As Kinnock wisely put it... we can't make a living out of taking in each others washingdeano30https://www.blogger.com/profile/12637249297224887297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-62333002956132227962010-11-12T01:01:52.957+00:002010-11-12T01:01:52.957+00:00@Vizzo
Our success historically came not from &qu...@Vizzo<br /><br />Our success historically came not from "economic liberalism" but from being a sea power, having an empire and being rich in resources.<br /><br />Such a situation can SUSTAIN the inefficiency of neoliberalism, just as the USA's huge internal market sustains neoliberalism. <br /><br />But in GDP-per-capita terms, the USA are nothing to shout about, which shows how well liberalism works when you consider their advantages and they weren't occupied in the wars or bombed to fuck.<br /><br />We are running out of the last of our resources that are being exploited, oil, have lost our Empire, so we cannot just let the market do its thing any more.<br /><br />And the idea that intervention leads to higher taxes is another neolib error. <br /><br />The whole point is for government investment to create more growth, and hence to allow either more tax revenue for the same rate, or to be able to cut taxation while maintaining revenue.<br /><br />I'm not particularly advocating a "controlled" economy. I'm more for government investment to provide seeding, or support in downturns. <br /><br />The only control, would be more restrictions on destroying companies or their contribution via asset-stripping and offshoring etc.<br /><br />You don't need to tax more to fund government investment, indeed it is rather counterproductive to do so. It is better to BORROW to do it, so that you do not remove money from the economy. <br /><br />Like most businesses borrow to expand.<br /><br />As for inequality, the idea was that people would accept it, so long as everyone wound up better off. Trickle-down would see people benefit.<br /><br />This was always a crock of shite, as I pointed out to you a few days ago with the Alan Budd quote. THEY. DO. NOT. WANT. TRICKLE. DOWN. <br /><br />They want the fucker to flood up. By means of big unemployment depressing wages. So there is more and more growth, but few benefit. Hence, despite considerable GDP growth, wages in real terms have stagnated for agss. <br /><br />It's koolaid, gallons, barrels, indeed great big VATS of the stuff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com