25 November 2010


Freedom from Want - Norman Rockwell
I feel a very unusual sensation - if it is not indigestion, I think it must be gratitude. 
~Benjamin Disraeli


  1. Thanksgiving Day here, so thanks to each and every one of you for making me think, laugh, cry, and scream, for being here for me through some tough times and just being generally wonderful people.

    You're the best online family a girl ever had.

  2. Have a great day, Montana. All the best to you and Joe.

  3. BeautifulBurnout said...from yesterday:

    All the legal framework is still in place to bang up as many people as they feel like for public order-related offences; all the email and cctv and ANPR tracking is in place, quite lawfully...

    Your problem MrsBootstraps is that you're an armchair observer, not an activist and you know very little about how citizens fight with authority.

    Recently, in the last year, a friend of mine was arrested on leaving a flight into Luton for stealing duty free minatures from the plane's hospitality trolly. He had, but said the flight staff hadn't objected to him taking them. Presumably if he'd consumed the content there'd have been no problem.

    Anyway he was taken to the local police station, put in the cells and told he wouldn't be released until he signed an agreement to something that effectively meant he was agreeing to having committed a criminal offence. They also threatened him with the terrorism legislation, delaying the flight and so on.

    Being of rather more sterner stuff than the wimps in Whitehall yesterday who needed their mum's to get on the blower to rescue them, he sat in the cells for seven hours until they came to tell him to go home. And of course he refused to go until the most senior manager in the place came with a signed statement apologising for detaining him.

    So I think that not for the first time you're constructing scenarios you wish you'd been brave and talented enough to have carried through, but didn't, in order to boost your own credibility.

  4. Re the concern expressed for the welfare of our abused students:

    There was a time when students fought sufficiently hard to prevent themselves being arrested or kettled, adopting different tactics from demo to demo, and recognising that if you were one of the unlucky ones who got caught, the worst that might happen is that your parents might be a bit embarrassed.

    So where are the tactics that would have nullified the kettling the police seem to have chosen as its first choice?

    Perhaps one thousand students chained and locked together in Whitehall, with enough food inside them to last for 24 hours, warm clothing to survive the cold, no drinks for those with weak bladders and some detirmination, might just mean that now as people arrive at work, they'd still be there for the world to see how serious they are.

  5. Boudican said...

    Bitey, please show where 'all' have patronised Paul and told him he deosn't (sic) know what upsets him and what doesn't. Your vast archives and fiendish obsession should bring this about easily. Bring it on.

    It's not for me to show anything; rather it's for those like you, who I suspect, weren't subject to PaulBJ's outburst, to prove that they came to his defence and posted their opposition to him being racially abused, ignored, humiliated and patronised by those against whom he railed.

    If you did let's hear about it and you can join me on the side of those who, like Montana would never, in any circumstances use the word about which Paul complained.

    Your call.

  6. Leni said... yesterday:

    chekhov, As you know I don't get involved in spats....

    Oh you mean like not involved like in this one in which you posted some comments which in hindsight, you might not exactly agree with today.

    In fact there's just a tad of moral equivalence here from a number of posters.

    turminderxuss said...
    Ooh, the n-bomb. wondered about that as i hit post.. And well, sorry if it caused you pain Paul, probably no more than the wince I got when you thought Paki was acceptable, but I wouldn't want to deny your hurt. It was meant in the 'friendly/inclusive/reclaiming' sense, but if you invest so much in what is just a word, well, I'll bin the comment. And yes, in the racist, spit in your face (literally) sense it has been used against me.
    04 May, 2010 22:28

    About which the superbly palidromically named satireveritas responded:

    I notice The Untrusted censors have been active on last night's WDYWTTA.

    Par for the course I guess and rather ironic on the day we're expressing our democratic rights to elect yet another 'mother of parliaments'.

    And just to remind everyone what this was all about - here's the man himself - before once more expressing his contrition:

    04 May, 2010 20:36

    Paul said...


    Don,t want to fall out with you but how can the use of the word NIGGAS -irrespective of context-not be racist?

    Quite right - I even asked the ethnic minority members of my extensive family and they agreed, and were surprised at such open bigotry. Clearly Gordon Brown has set a trend running.

    So just a few days after PaulBJ exploded on the UT for being ignored and patronised, an exchange sadly not even I managed to capture, here you all are patronising him yet again and telling him he deosn't know what upsets him and what doesn't.

  7. Happy Thansgiving Montana (and lad and cat)!

  8. Montana, you say:

    But I'm not lying. I remember my reaction (that's how my memory works -- I remember feelings, not details). Even if my memory is playing tricks on me, it all just seems like such a silly thing for him to have become so enraged about that he's still frothing about it a week later.

    You're right I think it was about MartyninEurope's racist statement which JimPress for reasons only known to him, wouldn't and won't believe. So here is Martyn's post:

    Martyn Richard Jones said...
    Why is paul on my case on WADDYA?

    Fucking UT house nigger.
    25 September, 2010 23:54

  9. Leni

    Leni said...

    "Been reading your posts folks.

    Today is depressing - another nail in the coffin of aspiration for so many young people. That the right to freely demonstrate is quite clearly no longer accessible to us is obvious.

    It will again be kids from poorer families who lose out - many of their parents will fear the debt and encourage them to leave school and find a job - where will the jobs be and just what kind of jobs?

    we are going through a revolution - a top down revolution imposed upon us. It is not a revolution of our making. For how long will we tolerate this - how far does it have to go ?

    Start paying back fees at £21,000 - how much will that be worth in 5-10 years ?"

    It wasn't long ago that income tax was 25p in the Pound, (1995) so that someone earning say £30,000 a year was paying about £1250 more every year than they would today.

    Over their working life they'd have paid more than enough to pay for their own children's university education and those of their unemployed neighbours, whose children would also get a full grant from the local authority.

    Those who rightly protest about the iniquity of the current government's policies never mention the fact that when we had "free education", those who earned anything, paid far more tax than you and I do today and if we cared, we'd be the people on the street, battling with the police and demanding to pay more tax

    If you paid tax today at the rate that existed in 1995 try to calculate what you'd be paying and then you'll understand why we could have almost free university education then, and had done since the sixties, but find it almost impossible today.

  10. Chekhov perceptively writes about lightacandle:

    As for bullying; where did you get that notion from? Can you cite any examples of people being bullied on "wadya" by anyone on here?

    BTW: if you didn't know already there is no moderation on this site which is why it's streets ahead of CIF.

    The cretins who run CIF have shot themselves in the foot with their trigger happy and arbitrary moderation "policy".

    Over the years most of the best posters (I don't include myself in that category, I'm just a lighweight)have either been banned or just bailed out of their own accord with a "sod this for a game of soldiers" attitude.

    I can only speak for myself but I'm confident there is absolutely no collective vendetta on behalf of the UT members to bully anyone on "wadya".

    However that doesn't mean anyone is exempt from being called to account. So, if you want to have pop, come over here and do it.

    You won't get banned and you won't get censored!

    You're right there's no bullying, well with the exception of the way you treated PaulBJ and NapoleanK, - such as takes place in real life, and that's what the police were doing today, although unlike some of the confrontations in the past, there's been no demonstrators killed (Blair Peach) or even hospitalised. But the idea that the UT founders didn't object to those, like me, who challenged their desired primacy on CiF, is just nonsense. To quote your legal expert, you don't like being "done over like a kipper". And when that happens you react in a way that's as reactionary as anything this and previous Tory governments have done to curb freedom of speech.

    So go back and read the exchanges on last year's CiF commenter of the year and other threads and there you'll find why and how you managed to get MAM elected, while someone like me who in general has a posting history that agrees with much of your political stance, you conspire to get banned.

    Look at yourselves - craving after the company at your social gatherings of people you despise, (Peter Bracken), yet doing all you can to get others banned (JimPress) because he dares to call you out on your inconsistency and hypocrisy.

    As for all this umbrage about a few students being detained in Whitehall for a few hours, so their mums have to get on the phone to find out how they can get their lunch boxes to them, your empathy is pathetic. There was a time not that long ago when such action would be more embarrassing to students and their parents, than them being carted off to Bow Street in a black maria with blood pouring down their faces, to spend the night in a police cell in the company of a blanket that stank of stale urine and an alcoholic who wouldn't go to sleep, before being bailed, released and later fined on some trumped up charge by a beak who had more in common with Judge Jeffries than a modern day magistrate.

  11. Fantastic news:

    A scheme to protect women from domestic abuse by removing violent partners from the family home is to be piloted in three police force areas from next summer, the home secretary, Theresa May, is to announce today.

    The go-ahead for domestic violence protection orders forms part of an updated Home Office strategy to tackle sexual and emotional crimes against women and girls.

    Guardian 25/1/10

    And a poke in the eye with a sharp stick to all those who denigrated Theresa May when she promised this on CiF last year.

  12. Bitterweed

    Anything useful to post?

  13. Bitethehand's post of the day:

    from CiF - July 2006:

    Anyone who disagrees please let me know.

    I could say give the job to Prescott, it seems far more in his line of work, but that would be too easy. As frothwath says, what is it that thirty other countries feel comfortable about that Blair has such difficulties over? Of course there's the paranoia that 'they're all ganging up on us', maybe with some justification. Or 'it'll be bad for the tourist trade', - far more likely than the Home Office excuse that they'll all come flooding in. Think of the effect on the Downing St hospitality budget if the price of services suddenly doubles. But Mr MacShane is seeking to deal with the mote of sex slavery while ignoring the beam of prostitution. In all illegal activities there are those whose abuse and violence goes beyond the pale - children dragooned into shop lifting gangs, crack and heroin dealers who deliberately cultivate addiction, arms dealers who generate intra-communal conflicts and sell to both sides, rogue immigation officers who offer visas as a means to on-going blackmail. It is the illegality of prostitution that enables sex slavery to exist, however large or small a problem this is. If prostitution were legal, those involved would soon police the service, as effectively as other occupational groups police theirs.

  14. Seen Bitey?

    No I haven't, I wish he would post more, I really need a post from someone I have never heard of from 3 years ago in order to get my day started.

    He has so much to offer us that he really shouldn't ration himself.

    Maybe Montana can get him to start every days thread with a comment!

  15. Hm. Person with no posting history, querying my identity. Interesting.

  16. "Person with no posting history, querying my identity. Interesting."

    No posting history? Bitey has been posting on Cif for years. Laneheart is just his latest moniker (about #15 I'd guess.)

    The fact that he is now picking on you now is pure coincidence. He has no history of repeatedly targetting women. Just ask beautifulburnout or montana.

  17. SureCate

    I don't know why but you really seem to have rattled some peoples cages with your, as far as I can see, excellent, rational and sometimes very amusing posts.

    It must be a bit freaky for you but keep up the good work, some of us are really enjoying it. ;)

  18. I'm disinclined to do the whole 'are you really who you say you are' thing with new posters, but this did seem a little odd. I guess it's possible that they're 'I heard her on the radio' thing is true.

  19. Apparently they no longer exist. How interesting.

  20. Nobody new would leap in and the very first question out of the box would be "Are you Julie Sanders?", even a lurker would save that up for at least a few posts!

    I am jealous, I want a cyber stalker of my own!

  21. Happy Thanksgiving to Montana, family and friends.

    This is what Dave 3 was saying just a few short months ago:

    Repeal infringements on freedom:

    So, three steps to new politics. First, sweeping legislation to restore the hard won liberties that have been taken, one by one, from the British people.

    This government will end the culture of spying on it’s citizens. It is outrageous that decent, law-abiding people are regularly treated as if they have something to hide. It has to stop.
    So there will be no ID card scheme. No national identity register, a halt to second generation biometric passports. We won’t hold your internet and email records when there is just no reason to do so. CCTV will be properly regulated, as will the DNA database, with restrictions on the storage of innocent people’s DNA.

    And Britain must not be a country where our children grow up so used to their liberty being infringed that they accept it without question. There will be no ContactPoint children’s database. Schools will not take children’s fingerprints without even asking their parent’s consent.

    This will be a government that is proud when British citizens stand up against illegitimate advances of the state. That values debate, that is unafraid of dissent. That’s why we’ll remove limits on the rights to peaceful protest. It’s why we’ll review libel laws so that we can better protect freedom of speech.

    Obviously, we all know that LibDem and ConDem promises are not made with any intention of actually being honoured and the above does not exactly apply to what may become a pattern of demonstrations against the coalition regime.

    The problem is, how will the government seek to maintain its authority and ensure that it pushes through its plans, against the wishes of the people, when they wake up to the fact that they used their votes in order to experience the loveliness of living through a large-as-life retrospective of Thatcherism, without the cuddly, touchy-feely, wishy-washy bits?

    Surely, the government will have to resort to more severe and brutal tactics and measures in order to maintain law and order and the impression that they are in charge and know what they are doing - won't they?

    The problem is, might this not actually make the situation worse?

    The government, as usual, is being used by the banks and big business as an attack-dog, aiming its sharp, bitey teeth and livid pink slavering jaws at the public.

    It only really works up to the point where people start to give it a kicking from one side and its masters do the same from the other.

    What happens when the royal weddings run out?

    Oh, yeah, that'll be another war, then.

  22. Bitethehand
    No, sorry, busy today. You ?

  23. Timboktutu,

    "I am jealous, I want a cyber stalker of my own!"


    I'm a bit rubbish though, and it might be a bit 'I'll, maybe, make the odd comment, when I remember, or get round to it, or when there's nowt on the telly' rather than, say, a co-ordinated and sustained programme.

    Still, if this whole big society thing's gonna get off the ground, we'll all have to play our part, however small.....

  24. Right then, Dixon! I'm stalking you!!!

  25. Admin Peeps - you have spam.

  26. Aw James I was going to stalk him but since you spoke up first he is all yours. ;)

    I actually reckon that it might seem amusing at first to get a cyberstalker but must quite quicky turn disturbing.

    I am sure you have noticed how the nutters who make their way here are very fond of using peoples real names whenever they can (Montana and Spike have both had this treatment) and it is an easy enough task for the computer literate to find out lots of personal details about someone.

    Small steps from having a grudge to publishing something damaging to someones real life. :(

  27. James Dixon's real name is CybernautSam. He has an uncanny ability to present himself as honest,witty and urbane, when in fact, he is honest witty and urbane. I'd watch out for him... :-)

  28. Nice habib :)

    I needed a chuckle this morning.

  29. For example:

    Timboktutu, you said on [insert date], that [insert something that you said], whereas on [insert another date], you then said [insert something else you said]!!

    Hmmm, seems pretty clear to me that despite saying the first thing, you actually also said the second thing, QED you're a hypocrite, whereas I, on the other hand, am an uber-everythingist (but only good isms), aswell as being the sole defender of free expression in a crazy, mixed up, shook up world where people don't tend to stand for unfounded, patently absurd attacks on their children.

    Also, you inject your parakeet in the eyeballs with a smack/speed cocktail, while livestreaming it on YouTube.....


  30. Jen and Habib,


    I am pretty rubbish at this whole 'stalkers anonymous' thing, aren't I.

    (would this count as one of those #epicfails# that the kids are always on about, d'ya think....??)

  31. I like the epic fail meme James, I have never used it outside of my own head but then again Bracken hasn't been around for a while. ;)

  32. Camilla probably thinks it's 'wicked' James, so I wouldn't worry too much.

  33. See? Honest, witty and urbane - I'm on to you Dixon!

  34. Jen/Surecate,

    As it turns out, I'm the daddy of yoof lingo.

    Only yesterday I was saying that Cameroon was 'cool bananas....not' at PMQ's, that the police were 'being a bit square' for abusing the human rights of children, and then I commented on Sarah Palin's #faceplank# moment on the tweetydoodah!!


  35. Habib,

    *blush* - you've not quite got the hang of this stalker thing have you?


  36. Surecate said...

    I'm disinclined to do the whole 'are you really who you say you are' thing with new posters, but this did seem a little odd. I guess it's possible that they're 'I heard her on the radio' thing is true.

    Well my question to meerkatjie was as always, quite genuine, having read sufficient of her contributions both here and on CiF to appreciate her considerable knowledge of psychology and literature.

    Most people would consider being compared to a professor, especially one as erudite and well read as Julie Sanders, as a compliment, which was exactly what I intended it to be.

    Indeed I'll go further and say that Professor Sanders came across as a prime example of how women, even in higher education need to be twice, even three times better than their male colleagues, to achieve such a rank in their chosen profession. I cannot recall anyone making Melvyn Bragg appear so defensive about his own lack of knowledge of the subject under discussion.

    And the fact that Timsimmons and JimPress felt the need to play the over-protective patriarchal male does them no credit.

  37. 'cool bananas....not'

    Heehee, well it made me laugh (or should I say I larf to be down with da kidz?)

  38. Oh, I did feel complimented Bitethehand. I would love to be a professor, and admire greatly my colleagues in English Literature. I was just puzzled by the sudden interest from an apparent stranger with no posting history.

    You are, of course, quite right. It is extraordinarily difficult for women to move through the ranks in academia, for a range of reasons.

  39. Just got tweeted this via Viz Top Tips.

    Guarantee a white Christmas by suddenly celebrating it today. ;)

  40. Bitey

    Thank you so much for the concern you've expressed for my wellbeing.It's restored my faith in mankind and left me with a warm and tingly feeling..

  41. Guarantee a white Christmas by suddenly celebrating it today, IN NEWCASTLE.

    I am rubbish at jokes.

  42. Morning all

    Have gone down with the first cold of winter and am having a day at home in bed. It'd be bliss if I didn't feel so wrung out.

    Did someone say they'd seen bitey somewhere?

    Gloomy forecasts for 'lower middle classes' according to report from the Resolution foundation.

    The result is that it is likely middle Britain will be exposed to a crisis in the coming years. The group's share of national income has now fallen to 22%, down from 30% in 1977, despite lower middle-class Britain accounting for one third of the working population.

    Measured in real terms, the report says that lower and middle-income household incomes increased by just under one third between 1977 and 2009, compared with a doubling among higher earner households

    The study looks at households earning between £12,000 - £30,000. How can a household on £12,000 be considered middle income? That sounds like the poor to me. As someone points out on the thread - thats "not squeezed middle, it's shat on bottom"
    Triple crunch' will see lower middle class £720 a year worse off

  43. £12,000 is middle class?

    Who the fuck knew that before I got ill I was firmly middle class, pass the breadsticks darling.

  44. Jen

    Don't you mean canapes?:-)

  45. Surecate

    I was just puzzled by the sudden interest from an apparent stranger with no posting history.

    Of course not where you looked, but if you look in the right place you'll see not only does it go back to before October 2006, but I even get mentioned in dispatches:

    Georgina Henry

    But thank you, seasiderock, shellshock and bitethehand: as a result of your comments, the technical team has worked out a way to measure the two together and the most-active list now reflects all content.


  46. Restored Atomboy's 11:18 post.

    How sad that that speech was all a pack of lies.

  47. Fans of 200 year old lesbian vampires will be sorry to learn that Ingrid Pitt has died. Those old Hammer Horrors were wondrously camp and funny as I recall.

    RIP Ingrid Pitt

  48. Ingrid Pitt gone? Has anyone made absolutely sure?
    Homage to her and no disrespect. RIP.

  49. Scary stalking song... whatever happened to Alanis Morissette? Once got tracked down and had that sung at me down a karaoke mic, oh how everybody, but me, laughed.

  50. Oh that's a shame Sheff, I remember being allowed to stay up late to watch those films on a Friday night.

    Daughters of Satan or something is her famous role isn't it, I was very stressed out by the idea that the nice twin might get burned.

  51. habib
    "Has anyone made absolutely sure?"
    [chokes with laughter]

    bad man. bad.

  52. Paul
    Fancy a scrap ? I for one have to keep up appearences.


  53. That was funny habib. :)

  54. Can't open that link Habib, but if it's the one I'm thinking of, I put it up in the UT tunes, and it's about as good as stalking songs get.

    Anyone else assigned it as a theme tune to a particular UTer??

  55. Not that one, but I associated this one a while back...


    The only problem.. the lyrics are far too close for comfort !!

  56. "households" earning between £12,000 - £30,000"

    Agreed, this somewhat distracts from the report, but is this more a failing of Randeep Ramesh, Guardian social affairs editor's interpretation than the actual report ?

    Pretty grim reading, agreed.

    "And a poke in the eye with a sharp stick to all those who denigrated Theresa May when she promised this on CiF last year."

    Although Theresa May has announced this policy extension, to what extent any improvement mitigated against by the coalition's cuts ?

    Eg, ref:



    Deck-chairs and titanic spring to mind, frankly.

    PS please don't assume I'm in any way belittling or "dengrating" her, or attacking May's latest offering. I'm wondering whether a likely increase in DV - due directly or inderectly to the cuts - will outweigh, in terms of real harm and suffering to women, any policy of interdiction. I'm pretty sure it will.

  57. Haha- Creep works too.

    We could do one of those 'mash-ups'!?

  58. Don't be so nice to him BW, Theresa May cares as much about other women as I do about the current state of ballet.

    She would throw every single one of us under a bus (one by one, laughing all the time) if it meant she advanced half a step in her political career.

    Male or female most politicians are self obsessed aliens.

  59. Jen, wasn't being nice just trying to see if I could post anything ever without being a glib or trucculent asshole !


  60. But I like you as a glib truculent arsehole!

  61. apparently the middle classes are going to stop 'breeding' as a result of the welfare cuts.

    meanwhile the poor are fine and will continue popping them out.

    howard flight.

    downing street already backing away in panic.

  62. Philippa I do sometimes think I should 'squeeze one out' to add to the general chaviness of the world but on reflection it never seems worth it.

    It's almost as if reproductive decisions are made independently of class, no that can't possibly be true.

  63. Thanks Jen ! I aim to please. Craven Group-think is where I'm at !

  64. "bad man. bad."
    Jesus Philibee, you didn't have friends in Nottingham in 1995 did you?

    James, it was "You oughta know", but I listened to yours... Someone really upset Alanis, didn't they?

    Tascia, ha ha! Ever thought about going the whole goth way?

    BW, I am a glib and truculent asshole. My last glib comment was made just this second.

  65. "Someone really upset Alanis"

    Good. She was a fucking wanker.

  66. habib - ray! sisters!

    Nottingham, hmmm. Ed? wimpy looking, glasses, studying psychology? probably not...

  67. Actually reproductive decisions are not made indepentally of class, I am talking shite, it is totally class related.

  68. ...haven't listened to that for ages, good

    now. must shop. i'm creative, but there's very little tea-based output that can be managed with only a half-full jar of gherkins and an elderly tortilla.

  69. Oh that is a horrible spelling mistake I did there (fuck grammar). ;)

  70. "'Someone really upset Alanis'
    Good. She was a fucking wanker."

    'Fess up, BW, it was you wasn't it?

  71. I bet you never put the toilet seat down...

  72. Sorry, can someone send the above idea to Bella. Cheers.

  73. Habib
    I asked her where the clitoris is and she broke a chair over my head.

    Chicks eh ?

  74. Not only am I glib trucculent fuck but according to lightmyfarts, "not really fitting in with any of the the popular, academic, trendy, sporting".
    Aw, please let me in your gang !

  75. "Oh for God's sake!!! Have you looked properly???"

  76. Sheff

    The study looks at households earning between £12,000 - £30,000. How can a household on £12,000 be considered middle income? That sounds like the poor to me.

    No time to follow your link but this is another area which will have to have a lovely make-over during the coming years in order to ensure that we are all in this together.

    Obviously, when people kept hearing that £25 000 per annum or so was the average-ish type of income, it made a lot of people feel both poor and hard done by.

    If you then say that this is the income of the middle-classes, people who know that however hard they screw their eyes tight shut and clench their fists and wish like the wind with all orifices and sphincters in lock-down mode, they will never be middle-class or rich suddenly think that trying to feed yourself on £6 000 a year and living in your car is probably as good as it will ever get.

    Meanwhile, of course, the lovely, inimitable, superhuman wealth creators see their salaries soaring ever further into the heavens like shooting-stars and all their wishes forever come true.

    We should be both comforted and heartened that we are all in this together, attached to each other like criminals with balls and chains.

    We are forever poor in order to ensure that the rich become forever richer.

    Fair's fair, after all.

  77. Spam - filtered , maybe because linky came first . New Disability Thread up at 12.07 .XX

  78. "what the hell are you doing down there???!"

  79. Respect to bitethehand! He got a little pat on the back from Georgina Henry four years ago. He must be so proud! If I had ever received such praise from the gods at Cif Towers, I would save it in my personal archive in the off-chance that I might be able to refer to it many years later on an obscure blog in order to impress someone on the internet that I'd never ever met in the vain hope that they would give a flying fuck about it.

    But that's just me - I doubt that anybody else would be so self-obsesed or anal. Oh, wait.........

  80. Ha Georgina Henry responded to me once, can't remember why or what she said but I had no idea that meant I was special.

    What is she doing now by the way?

    Editing Horse and Hounds?

  81. Bloody hell, Atomboy! Here were Bitterweed and I, enjoying our afternoon glib and truculent sandwiches, served with a side order of irony, when you come along and make a serious point.

    Honestly, some people!

    "Meanwhile, of course, the lovely, inimitable, superhuman wealth creators see their salaries soaring ever further into the heavens like shooting-stars and all their wishes forever come true."

    Well said.

    See ya's in a bit. "Whatthe hellareyoudoingdownthere" ha ha ha.

  82. heyhabib and Bitterweed

    Sorry. It was just a bit of idle typing to keep my fingers in practice.

    Good luck with the clit-hunt.

    Slippery little things, aren't they?

  83. I think The Brackster might be on that dinner date whatsit on ITV at the moment....

  84. I guess Howard Flight doesn't care what the fuck he says now he's a lord. All a bit reminiscent of Keith Joseph and his 'condoms for the poor' speech thirty years ago.

    Still, he did get fired once for saying that the Tories had secret plans for cutting spending more than they were saying during the 2005 election campaign, so he's clearly unreliable.

  85. Anyone who has posting rights over at Dribbly might want to ask whether they could approach the Kavli Trust to write about a business which gives its profits to charity and whether this could be a model for the future and given tax advantages over the normal "siphon off the money into the directors' back pockets" model we are used to hearing praised as the highest possible human achievement.

    Kavli makes the - Mmm-mmm - squeezy-cheesy product called, er, I forget, which is nice spread on bread with cucumber and pepper.

    They say this:

    The Kavli Trust owns the Bergen-based Kavli food group, and this ownership provides the basis for its financial support of good causes. Part of Kavli’s profits are reinvested to strengthen and develop group’s operations, while the remainder benefits research, cultural activities and humanitarian work through the trust. Although the overall amount can vary from year to year, donations from the trust have recently increased substantially.

    It sounds a bit Big Society, (but probably without quite so many lies as Dave's version) so it should appeal to CiF - assuming it is still under the ConDem con...I mean spell...er...

    Oh, Primula is the name of the stuff.

    [OK - heads back down now]

  86. Primula! Haven't heard that name since I was a nipper, and my mum used to buy it to put on her Ryvita. Never knew who made it, but I feel better about them now I know their MO.

  87. Jesus, if I was responsible for Primula then I would feel compelled to make the world a better place as well.

  88. PeterJ and jennifera30

    It may be good or bad, depending on your viewpoint, that Gordon Ramsay said something like: "Primula? Nothing wrong with Primula, it's good stuff."

    I like it, too, but I am incredibly easily pleased and completely unsophisticated.

    OK - back to the lumpy real world again.

  89. Just out of interest has anyone seen anything of the new Waddya 'host' whose name i can't remember.When i asked MsReed whether she'd done a runner after her baptism of fire she replied with a very curt 'Non'.Yet i haven't seen her- although i do tend to dip in and out of waddya as reading the full thread would probably be the death of me.

  90. No way Atomboy, my palate is totally unsophisticated and I take what Gordon Ramsey says with a WTF but Primula is gross.

    I like melty cheese slices but I turn my nose up at Primula for being half made of plastic.

  91. Paul
    Maybe she's covering Alanis Morissette's pregnancy ?

  92. I wasn't slagging it off, AB; I vaguely remember liking it quite a lot. It's just that I hadn't seen it, heard of it or thought about it for roughly 45 years. Didn't it have a picture of some kind of milkmaid on the packet? Maybe it still does...

    Ah. No it doesn't.

  93. I once saw a friend suck a whole tube of Primula (for a bet) and I don't think I will ever stop being mentally sick.

  94. Bitterweed

    Lol! Or maybe she's the surrogate for Alanis Morissettes baby .

  95. I'm about as open to anything that vaguely resembles cheese as anyone, but I seem to remember 'having a word' with my mum when she once put that stuff in my thundercats lunchbox....

  96. @jen
    That wasn't primula !



  97. BW

    That wouldn't have made me sick. ;)

    The pretend cheese lips and the pretend cheese burps were enough to put me off sucking for years.

    It made me very unpopular with my partner.

  98. I can't believe I just said that.

    I'm off to read a bible or something. ;)

  99. @Jen

    I think you should try this instead; the complete organ works of J.S. Bach on the baroque organs of Leipzig. Featuring the keyboard talents of Dr James Kibble, Professor of Organ at the University of Michigan! For free!

    (via Open Culture)

  100. Thank you Peter, I know nothing of organ (stop it) music but I will give it a go.

  101. I have to admit i had no idea what Primula is and sadly had to google to give me an idea of what you're all talking about.Now i know it sounds disgusting and not fit for human consumption. A bit like squirty cream!

  102. Peterj

    thats a fantastic site - I will spend a happy hour or two downloading the music - so thanks v much!!

  103. Thanks PeterJ ! My antique speakers and ears enjoying a blast of the D minor Toccata and Fugue .

    A welcome change from the Black Mondays Tuesdays Wednesdays etc of november 2010...

    I don't know how much traffic there is on newsnetscotland but a worthwhile site. Golem on it too.

    jenni -- nice to see you in such lewd good form !


  104. Paul,

    I once made squirty cream come out of my nose!!

    Am still bitter that the judges went with the cutesy annie lookalike instead though.

    Fuck you Butlins, Fuck you...!!

  105. frog

    Lewd? Me? Oh yeah. ;)

  106. Blimey!

    I didn't think Primula was quite up there with Al Qaeda for public vilification - crazy name, crazy shit - but you live and learn.

    PeterJ - I did not think you were being Primula-ist at all.

    I sometimes ask Atomgirl to buy things which I remember from childhood and never fail to be disappointed.

    Just to prove that I am not a complete cheese-free zone, I also like pretty well all real cheeses, from Edam and Emmental on the mild end of the spectrum to delighting in holding as much mould from a really ripe blue cheese in my mouth as I can and just letting it melt away.

    What's the blue cheese which is a lovely orangey-gold colour, with a blue-green mould?

    Cor! I've just had a corker of an idea!

    Why don't we publish a recipe book?


  107. James

    once made squirty cream come out of my nose!!

    Am still bitter that the judges went with the cutesy annie lookalike instead though.

    Fuck you Butlins, Fuck you...!!

    LOL! Well we all have our crosses to bear and i suppose Butlins were worried your next party trick would be to consume the squirty cream one end and wait for it to come out of the other.Not quite what they had in mind for Annie :-)

  108. "Fuck you Butlins, Fuck you...!! "

    Splendid work!

  109. Atomboy
    Great - What Kind of Cheese Are You ?

  110. Bitterweed

    Yeah, we could go all the way from feta to Ferrero Rocher. [Ferrero Rocher is not a cheese - it's a drink, I think - Ed]

  111. My recipe for cheese on toast.

    Put some cheese on bread and then put it under the grill.

    You can quote me.

  112. Just been browsing through Golem - he is not optimistic

    This is crisis time and no mistake. If Wall Street could get America to invade Europe it would because what is boiling up here could burn them all down. Think I might go back to bed..

    Bitters - I am a firm, hard Gruyère - best eaten with a Baguette straight out of the oven and lots of butter. Although a ripe Rouquefort could also be a contender.

  113. Paul/Bitterweed,

    I'd expand on the story a bit, but fear I may have already said too much.
    (For legal reasons, I am prohibited from discussing the Skegness talent show '89 'incident'!)

  114. Venezuelan beaver cheese anyone?

  115. Not really a cheese lover meself.Me mum used to make this thing called Welsh Rarebit which for years i thought was really pronounced Welsh Rabbit.Could just about stomach that.And it's cooked just like Jen said.(Duh!)Atomboy you can stick that in the UT recipe book if you like.

  116. Jennifera30

    Could you break that down into, er, bite-sized chunks for the non-foodies here?


    I am quite prepared to think I may have dreamt/nightmared this or it may have been something on a strange cult film, but I have a vague and unpleasant - not so much memory as smear of the mind - that some company somewhere makes cheese from, er, human milk.

    For weirdos, obviously.

  117. Sheff

    It is like I have said in the past, something really bad is about to happen.

    My 'conspiracy Grandma' sister has started making an end of the civilised world cupboard.

    Just because she has been diagnosed as mental doesn't mean she is wrong.

    She has 3 children, she is stocking up on candles, water and food.

    She might have the right idea, :(

  118. Personally, I find that if one cubes the cheese, and places it, artfully, on a (fairtrade, organic) cocktail stick, followed by a chunk of tinned pineapple, and finished off with a pickled onion, it makes an absolutely exquisite amuse bouche, which, if I do say so myself, has positively wowed any number of ambassadors and dignitaries, round my, erm, gaff.

  119. That sounded wrong, she wasn't actually diagnoses as MENTAL.

    She was fine when she had the kids, it is only lately that she has been trawling survivalist websites looking for tips and sharpening all her knives.

  120. Paul

    I was hoping to keep it fairly simple, so that nobody would feel excluded for reasons of lack of technical expertise or general food knowledge.

    More along the lines of:

    Buy some cheese - yellow is good - eat it.

  121. @Atomboy:


  122. For legal reasons, I am prohibited from discussing the Skegness talent show '89 'incident'! Were you there to celebrate your drunken 47th birthday party or have I got you confused with someone ?

    Ripe roquefort eh ? A good claret would sort that out.

    Chekhov - you have mail buddy (sorry, I can't check from here if you replied already).

  123. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  124. Sorry to spill it all over the place but I needed to vent.

  125. Hello Bitters; message received. will get back to you in next couple of days.

  126. Love and thoughts for you and the kids, Jenni.

  127. jen

    No need to be sorry at all.

    I imagine everyone here would offer whatever help they can, even if that is just listening.

    Take care x

  128. Bitters,

    I think you may have me confused with someone else. (I do recall that there were two separate talent show 'incidents' up Skeggy that year though...)


    That sounds pretty rough. Hugs.

  129. @jennifera30
    Jesus Jen. Listen, you have email addresses if you want to be more explicit / don't want to cover stuff here. Mine included, I think, if not let me know. OK.

  130. So... Tory scum and their apologists are out re the guy who talked about teh 'breeding'.

    'But it's the natural order of things', 'Darwinism', 'survival of the fittest'

    Lower than vermin. If that rabble got their way then I probably wouldn't have been born.

    Contrary to my perceived reputation on here, I have never advocated some kind of hard right eugenics policy. All I ever said was that people are conscious human beings and thus able to exert some control over their lives and have responsibility for their actions. To deny that is to deny humanity.

  131. Thanks everyone, it so shocking though, I (and my sister) had no fucking idea.

    I felt bad for the kids because they had a shite but love filled childhood.

    The fact that their dad was also fucking them has just destroyed any faith I had in humankind.

    Those poor babies

  132. jennifera30
    Meant to say, don't be afraid to let it hang out here - just saying you can get in touch too. OK

  133. Jenni

    Mail me if I can help - or just to vent.

    lots of hugs xx

  134. @Charles
    Not trying to divert the conversation, but potentially bad timing there mate if you read around the posts.

  135. Oh Jen really sorry to hear that.That's really tough to deal with.

    Might be an idea not to say too much on this public blog cos of the twisted lurkers we have to deal with here.And that includes the former UT posters who are currently holding court on waddya.Best email/phone the people here you feel most comfortable with and talk privately.

    Take care of yourself x

  136. Quick scan of comments has left me amazed at the cheese erudition displayed here.

    I have tried making soft cheese - the result was unedifying - more yuck than nutrition.

  137. Charley

    Some people - for many reasons - have no control over their lives whatsoever.

  138. Jesus, Jen - that is the worst. Best to you, your sister and the kids. xx

  139. You are probably right Paul.

    I expect to see my oh so personal disater used as Cif fodder soon.

    Bollocks to that, I can cope.

  140. Yes, sorry to butt into your conversation bitters. The sad thing though is that so many misanthropes agree with the Tories.

    Jen- all the best.

  141. ouch jen

    hope that resolves for the better, but yes I agree with Atomboy, there is no need to be sorry at all!

  142. as to the cheese posts, I think I need some therapy now!

  143. Gee thanks Tim, the sympathy is oozing through your post.

    Sorry for getting all upset.

  144. Jen (and anyone else),

    I tend to agree with Paul, but it's your call, obviously.



    if you need!

  145. Now I am going to say sorry for saying sorry, sorry Tim, I am not in my right mind.

  146. Jen - that really is shit. A real nightmare into a chilling horror show

    At least the poor kids have a fine aunt in you -I hope you and your sister, and the rest of your family, can help them get through the hell that it must be for them.

    Very best wishes to you all.


  147. The worst bit is imagining what my sis and the kids are going through, I am one step removed and it is killing me.

    They must just be tortured.

  148. {{Jen}} I did not know your family went through such strife.

  149. Ian

    Why would you know, I didn't know.

    I didn't fucking know anything about it.

  150. Jenni more hugs from frog2@live.fr XX

  151. I would get in touch Thauma but that is all I have to say.

    I didn't know and I let them down.

  152. Jenn

    This is a really terrible thing to find out about. Are you on your own at home? Is there anyone you can get round for a bit of support?

    Agree with bitters about emailing if you'd prefer to talk more privately - or even phoning if you need to.

    Take care xx

  153. Jen, you didn't let them down - how could you have known? Sounds like you have given them loads of love and that is the best thing you could have done (and, of course, will continue to do).

  154. "....To deny that is to deny humanity."

    Sometimes the harshness of your tone seems to escape you nap

    The wider truth might also be that some folk do (for whatever reason or misfortune) find themselves between the rock and the hardplace and with scalding acid eating at their genitals (or brains) to boot............in which case the denial of humanity is in failing to pause and to recognise the plight of some fellow humans.

    The phrase that springs to mind - "there but for the grace of god go I"........ etc

    "All I ever said was that people are conscious human beings and thus able to exert some control over their lives and have responsibility for their actions. To deny that is to deny humanity." - there are a hell of a lot of heroic and questionable and simplistic assumptions lurking in these sentences.

    From your account of your Glasgow experiences I would have hoped that you were starting to recognise that it is easier to talk of getting control of one's life than it is to actually do so ....... seems to me that very large numbers of people go through an entire lifetime without quite ever getting control despite hard endevour.


  155. thauma I was glad when they moved away, I was too cool for school when they moved.

    I am hating myself for letting them go without comment.

    No excuses, I am partly to blame.

    I had a lot on, what kind of excuse is that.

  156. Jen it's ok !

    My guess is this is the one single place where one never needs to say sorry for feeling strong emotions.

  157. "I didn't know and I let them down."
    No - back later.

  158. Charley
    No worries, simultaneous posting is all.

  159. Jen - the one that let them down was the one that abused them - not you or your sister.

  160. Deano. I'll have a long (and civil) argument with you later tonight or tomorrow. Now is obviously not really the time, plus I've got to go out.

    My Glasgow experiences have changed me, yes.

  161. Ah no Jen, as Deano says, the one to blame is the bastard who abused them. You are in no way responsible for what he did.

    It's so horrible ... you must be in pieces. Take care. xxx

  162. Evening all

    Happy Thanksgiving Montana and all deserving Americans! xx

    I had the irritating experience of reading this thread this morning on my CrackBerry while I was bored shitless waiting to get my case called on, yet unable to comment.

    So I would just like to take this opportunity, before I read anything else today, to give thanks on this auspicious day for Bitey, without whose wit, intelligence and praise my live would not be worth living...


    OK then.

    I lied

    Fuck off Bitey you sad git!

    Off to read the rest of the thread now :o)

    BB x

  163. jenI hope that you and your sister can get some solid support and help to get you through it.

    I feel inadequate about the quality of my advice in such awful circumstances I have no knowledge or expertise to fall back on to help and would hate to offer inept advice by mistake.

    Sadly you won't be the first family member to find themselves in such an awful place and I hope that others with experience will be able to give you all solid help.

    I guess that Chin, of our regulars, will know as much as anyone and probably be a fine source of extra support for you. I am sure that she will add to that coming from your other sisters and comrades here on UT

  164. Ah ha ha ha, my neice has apparently called her son Keegan, fucking stupidity apparently breeds true.

  165. Hello people.


    deano is right - you can get in touch with me if you want. You can also speak to Victim Support, they support families as well as those who are victims of crime and have a local office in most areas:

    My Sisters Place (local to you) should be able to point you towards support:

    And there is a Rape Crisis centre in Darlington who might be able to advise you. Here's a link to a webpage on child abuse:

    And be strong, because the family needs you, but be kind to yourself.

  166. sheff

    More bad news. I just heard that we have lost Gill Booth, one of the Sheffield Women's Film Co-op, who produced 'Diamonds in Brown Paper' (film about the buffer girls in the cutlery industry.

    My other half & me loved Gill to bits.

  167. Jen

    Really sorry to hear your news. My email is beautifulburnoutbirdchrome@gmail.com if there is anything I can do to help - even someone to go "bleuugh" over.

    Big hugs xx


  168. Asking for help?

    That would make me weak.

    Not a chance.

  169. Asking for help is a sign of strength, not weakness. Knowing when you need someone else there, and having the strength of character to ask for that - that's a brave thing to do.

    I'm really sorry to hear about your family's troubles Jennifer. It really does sound like it's turned your world upside down. Realistically, you've done the best you can by your sister's children, from what you've said, and I'm sure you'll continue to do so. Try to ease up on yourself a bit. Men like him play power games, and they fuck with your head. Sitting there feeling guilty about what *he* did - well that gives him all the power, and takes away all his blame. He's the one who did wrong, lovely, not you.

  170. MsChin, sorry to hear about your filmmaker friend too.

    God, it's just been a bit of a poo day all round, hasn't it?

  171. Hi Jen,

    Not sure if you are joking or not but I can empathise with the sentiment as I am stubborn as fuck myself.

    MsChin said: And be strong, because the family needs you, but be kind to yourself.

    It's just possible that some of the resources she provided can help with both counts. ;-)

    But of course you will find your own path.

  172. Jen,

    exactly what surecate just said, from me too...


  173. Jen, you've got mail. And all the support I can give you.

  174. This comment has been removed by the author.

  175. This comment has been removed by the author.

  176. Oh, thanks dave. I just am clearly rubbish. I always thought I was reasonably technically competent, but apparently not....

  177. At one time I thought I'd never need html again, so forgot it ... I wish that G would accept html linkies tho, my ActiveX screws all up . frog

  178. Jen so sorry to hear your news - e-mail me if you want...


    Sending you loads of positive vibes anyway. You, and especially your sister and the kids need all the support you can get. I do hope that you get it.

    You are all in my thoughts.

    (((((Jen)))) ((((Sister & kids))))

  179. jen The strongest trees can bend in the wind. As others have said you must choose your own path through this but accepting, help, even its only someone you can talk to is not a sign of weakness.

    WE are strongest when we help each other,

    Take care of yourself.

  180. Sorry to hear about your news, Jen.

    I know it isn't the same because it isn't family but I have missed some serious abuse (of older people) in my work over the last ten years.

    I know it is easy to miss but hard not to blame yourself for when you find out that you missed it.

    All I would say is that it is the sort of thing you get better at spotting with time and experience. That might not be much comfort as it has happened.

    But the point is that you had not had that experience and so there was no reason why you should have been alerted to the signs.

    It really is not your fault.

  181. I'm sure you'll be fine in the long run Jen, and your sister and her kids too. We all have our moments, me included, several times this year in fact and no doubt even Peter Bracken does behind his hard man facade.

    Keep studying- we should be on the next OU course together also.

  182. Napoleon

    I'm sure you'll be fine in the long run Jen, and your sister and her kids too. We all have our moments, me included, several times this year in fact and no doubt even Peter Bracken does behind his hard man facade.

    You what? I mean seriously, are you suggesting that childhood sexual abuse is just a little blip in life that will be shortly got over?

  183. "Asking for help?
    That would make me weak.
    Not a chance."

    I'm with you there, sis. Being weak serves for nothing.

    You do have an extraordinary number of friends, though. Love and best regards. x

  184. Thauma.. spare the faux outrage please, I was only trying to help. Of course it is not.

  185. Charles - well, if I misread what you were trying to say, I'm sorry. It just struck me that way.

  186. Charles - "faux outrage"?

    I'm really sorry, but have you ever posted anything on here that wasn't faux?

  187. Except for your dislike of the plebs, of course.

  188. no probs Thauma.
    That is the way of the internets, one quick post, just one or two little words and someone can totally misunderstand.

  189. WTF are you on about Habib?

  190. Charles, I always liked you, even when you were being nasty about "uneducated" people that you couldn't understand, I just thought you were a bit young. But your words about UT from your CiF playground made me lose any sympathy for you.