30 September 2009

Daily Chat 30/09/09

First, I'd just like to mention that this is the Untrusted's 200th thread.  That feels like a bit of a milestone, considering I was afraid no one would ever show up here when I started the place.  Thanks, everybody!  Now, on with our regularly scheduled post:

Henry IV was crowned  in 1399.  The world's first commercial hydroelectric power plant was put into operation in Appleton, Wisconsin, in 1882.  Hubert Cecil Booth patented the vacuum cleaner in 1901.  Bastard.  James Dean died in a car crash at the age of 24 in 1955 and Aldwych Underground station was closed in 1994 after 88 years of service.

Born today:  Rumi (1207-1273), Deborah Kerr (1921-2007), Truman Capote (1924-1984), Elie Wiesel (1928), Johnny Mathis (1935), Marc Bolan (1947-1977), Frank Rijkaard (1962) and Martina Hingis (1980).

It is Independence Day in Botswana.


  1. The grass is always greener on the other side, I guess ...

    There is a poll on the guardian whether "BBC period drama is going down-market". There people complaining that the BBC always goes for adapting 19th-century literature instead of going for Shakespeare, Ibsen, Chekov or Mamet, O'Neill, Arthur Miller.

    The only non-obscure writer German television adapts is Rosamunde Pilcher. And this, while our pendant to the BBC gets even *more* money than the BBC does. And while the BBC also produces programs like "Doctor Who" or "Torchwood", pretty much the only thing German television exported was "Derrick" (and the concept of "You Bet!").

    Either the British feel ever so entitled when it comes to culture in the BBC, or the Germans are very complacent in this regard. Well, only 70.8 percent of potential German voters voted on Sunday (historical low), as almost every result of the election was either a historical low or a historical high), so I'll go with the latter.

  2. Just listened to Gordon Brown on R4. Did I mishear, or was he really taking about health visitors in the context of social care for the elderly at home? Is sit a Scottish thing.

    I'm just in despair that my PM doesn't seem to know that health visitors care for women with children under 5, not the elderly, and rarely do home visits these days anyway.

    Perhaps ITV will take up the cause. Ibsen with ad breaks .. Please, BBC, listen.

  3. The Glasgow poet Tom Leonard referred to working-class-hero posing as 'bunnet hustling', and I'm afraid much of the BBC drama output is 'bonnet hustling' for the international market.

    Even when telly fowk do the bonnet stuff pretty well, like Cranford, for example, much is missed. For her original novel, Gaskell was persuaded to leave out some of the grislier aspects of rural life like gangs of youths creating havoc - never a chance of that being dug out for tellyland.

    Even when the gritty stuff is there in the printed original as in Flora Thompson, it gets wafted away in a cloud of Edwardian lady fragrance. The Candleford books have as their background a finely sketched world of rural poverty - Flora herself was an early Labour Party member.

    As for German TV drama, the only one I'm vaguely familiar with is the one with Rex the Police Dog - like Skippy with a wagging tail!

    andy, apologies for not seeing the depression suggestions on waddayawant - I rarely go to Cif, and stay off that patch of grass when I do.

  4. Edwin: Rex is Austrian.

    See, even Austrian (!) television is less obscure than German television.

    At least, german radio ain't that bad when you avoid the usual "greatest hits of the seventies, eighties and today". I've got a nice recording of a radio play of "The Tales of the Thousand and One Nights" (although it covers only ten nights) emphasizing the eroticism of the whole stuff. It's really cool and sexy :-)

  5. Well I'm still looking forward to the BBC's new version of Emma. In some ways I prefer the story to Pride and Prejudice, possibly because I have read the latter so many times and it's been filmed perhaps once too often. I had that burn-out with the opera Carmen at one point.

    Calm at the moment after the mayhem of yesterday. Bet it won't last.

  6. I loved Rex! Totally barking.

    Bru, Reginald Hill calls Emma the first great English detective story - I haven't seen a TV/film version i haven't liked and haven't seen a version of Mansfield Park I did like.

    We regularly watch the BBC's great P&P - it is so, so good.

  7. Bru - love the Domingo film of Carmen....

  8. Edwin - I love the beebs P&P. It is my favourite book (i know what a lack of imagination) so was dubious about watching it. But I could not believe how amzingly they cast it. The cast became the characters for me - to such an extent that now when I read the book I see them.

    One thing that highly amused me recently was on a trip to Chatsworth. I was in the gift shop and they had a canvas of an oil painting - of Colin Firth as Mr. Darcy! How random and bizarre. I know the (dreadful) film version with Keira Knightley was shot there but Colin Firth! If it was not ridiculously expensive I would have been tempted to buy it - in an ironic way of course.

    Thauma - I know it was written yesterday but just had to say lol to your dog story. I can picture it.

  9. Sorry to bring this up again and I will not go on about it all day - promise. But my god that Polanski thread has some strange shit happening on it. Moveanymountain has actually been making some good posts in response to some pretty dodgy posters (stops for smelling salts)but now his posts have been removed?

    As have quite a few posts against Polanski. Whereas posts that are quite clearly made by apologists for paedophilia - if not paedophiles themselves are being left to stand.

    So I have posted this (which I expect to be removed):

    Moveanymountain Some good points bloody well made. The whole charade of those posting vile views about the 'lack of innocence' of the girl or of any thirteen year old - is to pretend they are liberals - no you are not you are perverts. In fact I am shocked at some of the comments that have been left to stand on this thread Guardian.

    Some are nothing more than an apology for paedophilia and I doubt I am sticking my neck out too far to say that some paedophiles have clearly wound up here and are trying to spread their views on adults having sex with children - I know comment is meant to be free but it comes as a sad day when a newspaper pre-moderates any discussion of Blair but lets stuff like this pass. Whent that same newspaper wipes out any jokey insults aimed at Purnell. When that newspaper deletes some genuine criticisms of Islam but lets rabid BNP posts stand and finally when that newspaper not only publishes a very dubious article but lets what are clearly views supporting paedophilia stand. Guardian - what the fuck is going on? (I expect this post to be deleted).

    There are a few other posters asking if the Guardian has some sort of 'line' on this - there have been a fair few threads re dropping the age of consent and a few defending Polanski and his vile crime so who knows? I just think it is pretty shit and it has really pissed me off.

  10. Thauma

    Don't get me started on Domingo. When I was in Vienna once for the opera I bumped into him in the newsagents. His hair and beard had been dyed for La Traviata which he was filming in Rome simultaneously with being at the Vienna festival.

    Agree his Carmen was fantastic and Julia Migenes was a great Carmen.

    But his signature role will always be Otello. The passion and magnetism he exuded on stage had all the women in the audience ready to leave their partners.

    Hope the dog is OK and ruling the roost once more.

    Edwin - I agree that Mansfield Park never films well and the heroine was Jane's least favourite. Didn't like the Keira Knightly version of P&P one bit. It looked so dreary.

    Got to go now - suspect there'll be an avalanche shortly.

    Have a good day.

  11. Princess, I think the shop at (or by) the Alamo had pics of John Wayne as Davy Crocket for sale at one time, I wonder fi they still do - and there is a grotesque statue of Mel Gibson as Wallace in Stirling!

    Have looked once at the Polanski thread (I feel I know enough about the case now) and I agree MAM is in very good form - that's a splendid post of yours.

  12. Mel Gibson as a statue! Eugh - that is just a step too far. I just cannot imagine who would have an oil painting of Colin Firth-as Mr. Darcy in their house? The mind boggles. In fact I had to leave the shop because I was overwhelmed with laughter - and the Chatsworth gift shop is a very genteel affair.

    I once saw this really weird dog statue thing in TK Maxx and the same thing happened. I was waiting to pay and I just glanced over and saw a dog. It was about four foot high and looked like a poodle or some such, its body was made out of this hideous faux fur but it had a porcelain head. It was wearing a red hat, blue coat - gloves on its paws, carrying an umbrella and had high heels on (it was stood on its hind legs) but the piece de resistance was the fact that this dog thing was wearing lipstick. I was so overcome I had to get out of the line and leave the shop. I really wish I had bought it - because words cannot describe the sheer weirdness of the thing.

  13. Oh Princess, the Wallace statue is a thing of horror


    TK Maxx is great, I bought a drizabone jacket there for a third of the normal price, but you are right they do also sell some weird things. Incidentally, if that bizarre thing was made in China it may not have been faux fur but real fur, and quite possibly cat or dog fur - it's often cheaper than the faux stuff.

  14. Hi all,

    Sorry, shameless use of the untrusted coming up...

    I know it's Chas but it's a worthy cause, please sign...........




  15. Hi all. I've been tied up with work; my line manager's off at the moment so I'm having to fill in for him at meetings, whilst doing my own work. So it's literally been a case of getting in, having something to eat, a quick check of things on t'interweb & bed.

    I've been very studious in avoiding the Polanski threads; after seeing the notion that child abuse is okay, if you're a lesbian, promoted (together with the notion that teaching girls to be lesbians would produce fewer teen pregnancies)promoted, over the last couple of weeks, I seriously doubt that my responses to anyone else defending paedophiles would avoid a lifetime ban.

    Is anyone else thoroughly sickened by the excrement in Brighton?

    I know NuLabour is claiming that they don't care about losiing the support of The Sun, but I'm amazed at the way nearly every statement & speech is clearly aimed at the cheap alternative for Andrex's demographic.

    What a complete & utter load of shits!

  16. And just when you think the Polanske story is, like, so over, CiF puts up a new piece by Sady Doyle on him ..

  17. Really should proof read my posts first .. it's been a long day at work.

  18. Yep well the good old Cif mods did delete my comment and also - weirdly - a few others that were saying nothing more than they were concerned at the number of pro-paedophilia comments. The pro-paedophilia comments are still there. Very weird - the Guardian - ultimate liberals and champions of kiddy fiddlers. Great!

    GPo1 - think I am cruising close to one but I am just so angry. Re Brighton - don't even get me started.
    So Gordon Brown thinks the answer is to get tough on law and order and become more Blairite - to help the middle classes! The party is over. Must say as well that I found elements of Mandelsons delivery quite proto fascistic.

    They are such a bunch of creeps.

    Edwin that statue is just...indescribable. It is ten times worse than the the Darcy picture. Truly horrid. In fact I cant quite believe it exists!

    Gotta go dog walking time.

  19. Ahhh Aldwych station. Many happy years spent in a room right above that, often rat-arsed.

    Glad everyone seems to have the same view on the Polanski thing. Some very strange - fuck it, disturbing - characters coming out there. Did anyone notice the guy calling Polanski critics BNP?

    Good to see Andy back.

  20. Bru - Domingo does have a bit of that smouldering sexuality thing as well as a superb voice. Migenes couldn't have been better cast as she actually looks the part and can act too! I imagine to opera purists she might be a bit too rock'n'roll in her delivery but, well, I like rock'n'roll too.

    I saw a version of Carmen once where Carmen was about 300 lbs - not very credible as a gypsy siren - and at one point started dancing on a table where she ripped her hem. The entire audience was fascinated and began tittering and simultaneously worrying that she'd trip over it and fall off the table. Her singing wasn't anything to write home about either.

    I don't see much opera (we don't get a lot in my village) and am very unknowledgeable but I will look for Domingo doing Otello for sure.

    Here's the most gorgeous version of the Flower Duet from Lakmé that I've ever heard, although unfortunately hampered by typical YouTube poor sound quality. I bought a version of the opera based on this track and was frankly disappointed in the rest of it, and even the arrangement of this particular piece.

    Dog has completely bounced back, thanks, and trouble-making in her usual style.

  21. Evening, darlings.

    Too bloody tired to do anything this evening, so just a flying visit.

    Will have a nose round CiF and go to bed, I think.

    J x

  22. This comment has been removed by the author.

  23. Double posts for the lose.

    Bru! Lovely to see you back! :o)

  24. Re Polanski - there's a fifth blog on Cif now, plus Hadley Freeman's related one about John Phillips' 10-year affair with his daughter (and blimey, what a sick, jaw-dropping revelation that one is).

    How many different ways can we say that we're disgusted, unless we're Agnes? It's flogging a dead horse, and it's really cheap and cynical sensationalism from Cif.

    Ooh eck, ManUre 1 down to Wolfsburg. Goooo Wolfsburg!

  25. Spoke too soon, United have equalised.

    And there's no doubt a sixth Polanski blog on the way.

    Only in your Super Soaraway Cif.

  26. Well, a first for me, agreeing with a post by harlequinmod on sady's Polanski thread:

    "What I find amusing is that Switzerland has decided to take the high moral ground by arresting him. The same Country that has provided banking facilities for Gangsters, Nazis, Murderous Dictators, Drug Cartels and Tax Evaders."

    Well bloody said. What an anti-social regime Switzerland is. Bomb them and Luxembourg, the true axis of evil. We'll deal with the Isle of Man later.

  27. Hank - nae doot Man U will get plenty of extra time in which to score extra goals if nec.

  28. "What an anti-social regime Switzerland is. Bomb them and Luxembourg, the true axis of evil. We'll deal with the Isle of Man later."

    Too true. There is no justice in the world for 13 year old paedo victims or indeed Samoa. That Tsunami had the Cayman Islands name written all over it.

  29. Forest 2 up sports fans (-: and I've missed it, having spent far too much of the day in sunny Manchester )-:

  30. @thauma - no need, bastards are 2-1 up now, ref realised he'd been facing the wrong way.

    @monkeyfish - a sight for sore eyes, campadre.

  31. Yeah, thought I'd stop by. See how the old place was doing. Like what you've done with the kitchen but those curtains have gotta go. Anyway, I'm off to put up the missus. see ya later.

  32. Well, Hank, what football needs is a video ref like what rugby has.

    I know what a rugby fan you are, and I shall now retire to bed....

  33. MF
    Anyway, I'm off to put up the missus. see ya later.

    ??? The mind boggles ..

    Haven't seen the Freeman thread. I'll take a look.

  34. Bloodgate, thauma. I was shaken to the core!

    MsChin, be sure to take your strongest stomach with you. I wouldn't wish to diminish Polanski's crime, but this shocked me more. Truly nauseating.

  35. put up the missus MF What can you mean...?

  36. "put up the missus"

    He meant "blow up", as in "inflate" (-;

    Jeez, this place has really gone to the dogs since MF returned. I promise to raise the tone with a piece on tax havens over at U2 soon, once Montana's let her lawyers give it the once-over.

  37. hank
    Pass the sick bucket, please. What the hell is wrong with these showbiz people?

    Tax havens. Now that sounds a much healthier topic than the sexual proclivities of the rich & famous, that's for sure.

  38. Just read the Hadley Freeman piece. Am speechless.

  39. sheff

    Time for a little light relief. Over on page 3 of the Doncaster mayor thread, rednorth's posted a link to the fab radio interview with said mayor.

  40. msChin and sheff - if it's true, and bearing in mind that dad's dead now so he can't deny it, what did she think there was to be gained from this, other than selling a lot of books?

    It doesn't do either of them any favours.

    Like I said above, I wouldn't wish to minimise Polanski's crime, but I'm not wholly surprised by his abusive behaviour of a stranger, surrounded as he would have been by sycophants who indulged all kinds of bad behaviour by the rich and influential.

    It's sick, but it's predictable. We're aware that sort of thing happens so it becomes within the parameters of our comprehension, if not our understanding or tolerance.

    But I am absolutely fucking gob-smacked that the hippie values extended to shagging your own daughter for ten years. Not having read the book or having done any research on it, I'm assuming that at some point she was old enough to give consent, rather than simply being yet another victim of abuse.

    And they look quite comfortable with each other in the photo adorning Hadley's blog.

    Yeh, I'm not often shocked but...

  41. "But I am absolutely fucking gob-smacked that the hippie values extended to shagging your own daughter for ten years"

    I'm not sure they did generally, Hank. Or not any more than any other set of values.

  42. I just read somewhere else (where?) that Philips' daughter was to be married, but her dad didn't like her intended. He turned up the night before her wedding absolutely wasted; she was wasted & woke up to find her dad erm, well you can guess the rest.

    Quite how that then progressed into a 10 year affair, I don't plan to find out.

    Pass me that bucket again, please ..

  43. Good point, martillo. I'm generalising from the particular again. You are the voice of reason(-;

    Still waiting for your response to my Cloughie post on your U2 thread btw, mart. I've already burned my Alan Devonshire effigy, Bonzo will be next...

  44. Must away to bed, folks.

  45. "You are the voice of reason"

    Gah! I hate being the grown-up. I'll post an unreasonable response to your Clough comment tomorrow.

  46. Sayonara all.

    Btw, if any of the Yorkshire Massive (you know who you are) are out and about tomorrow, can you pop round to deano's? Would hate to think he's still struggling with his trousers. Or that he's been eaten by Mungo.

  47. #put up the missus#

    yeah, that does sound a bit odd. should have been: 'pick up'..from her mate's house

    'pick up the missus from where I'd put her..'

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  49. The post by:

    ptel said...

    Hey, you have a great blog here! I'm definitely going to bookmark you!
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    07 October, 2009 03:21

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  50. I am the servant of the Qur'an as long as I have life.
    I am dust on the path of Muhammad, the chosen one.
    If anyone quotes anything exept this from my sayings,
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    Hz.Mevlana Jalaluddin Muhammad Rumi