11 September 2009

11 September 2009

It will probably come as no surprise to most of you that I've been arguing with myself over how to handle the daily thread today. Nearly 3,000 people died eight years ago (more than, if you include the hijackers themselves). Thousands more had gaping holes ripped in their lives. Children are growing up without a parent. Parents had to bury children. Lives were profoundly affected in many ways, including my own, even though I didn't know anyone who died and didn't even know anyone who did know someone who died.

I know that at least one regular here believes the conspiracy theories. I have family members who firmly believe that, at the very least, the Bush Administration knew of the planned attack deliberately did nothing to stop it. I guess my tendency is to fall back on Occam's Razor and believe that it probably was just what it seemed to be. The problem for me in putting up a fairly straightforward thread is not only the way that the Bush Administration used, or rather, abused the tragedy to further their agenda and to demonise those of us who didn't agree with them, but also the jingoist reaction that most of my compatriots had.

"They hate us for our freedom." Bullfuckingshit, they do. They hate us for the way we bully other countries. They hate us for our hypocrisy -- for the fact that we have no compunction about supporting and even helping into power, despots who mistreat their own people to curry favour with us. Eight years on and not a single American has learned a goddamned thing from it. There's been no reflection, no questioning. The only people who understand any of this are people who understood this before the attack. People still want their SUVs and cheap gas, no matter what the cost to funny looking people in countries with hard-to-pronounce names. To me, that's the second tragedy of 9/11 -- that we didn't learn anything from it. We just used it to buttress our own image of ourselves as a wonderful, wonderful place, despised by the enemies of freedom. To that extent, it seems to me like those 2,998 people died in vain.


  1. Well I don't accept the 9/11 conspiracy theories simply because too many people would have had to be involved and keep silent afterwards. If we are going to learn we have plenty of real, incontrovertible points to make.

    For example, what is most remarkable about Tony Blair's beliefs is that he could say, while committing British forces to die needlessly, that

    "My father's generation went through the blitz; they know what it is like to suffer this deep tragedy and attack. . .There was one country and one people which stood by us at that time. That country was America, and those people were the American people."

    a statement completely untrue. The US was conspicuously neutral during the Blitz (I think one poll gave something like 10% approval for Britain's cause).

    The fact that a British prime minister could say this and get away with it - that our real and undisputed history can be so madly denied - is to me scarier than any of the conspiracy theories.

  2. Montana:

    Thanks for (another) wonderfully thoughtful introductory piece.

    If Cif do anything to mark today, I hope you post it there, because I can’t imagine there will be any contribution better than that.

    But I’m sure I speak for many when I express the hope that you’ll find the time to descend among us and join in the BTL discussion which I’m sure your piece will inspire.

    No to aloof ATL contributors in Untrusted ;-)

    Edwin: Positively Orwellian. But as we know,

    *Oceania is at war with Eurasia, and has always been at war with Eurasia...*

  3. Great point andy (the Orwell quote not the Berchie ref!) - and Montana I second andy, post this on a Cif thread, assuming they remember the meaning of the date. I too doubt if there will be anything better

  4. At times like this my thoughts turn to how much I despise those who hide behind their barbaric religious beliefs while creating war and havoc across the world.

    But enough of George W Bush and Tony Blair ...

  5. Brilliant intro Montana. It was a terrible day, it was I suppose the first really, really major news event in my life - and I watched it all unfold as I was off work that day and watching the tv when the news report came on.

    I actually could not believe it when the towers started to collapse. Some of the footage still makes me cry.

    I dont think it was a conspiracy - as EdwinMoore says far too many people would have to have been involved. The only thing I ever found really strange was that fighter jets were not scrambled however I read an account that explained how that was an error because they were but they went the wrong way. I put it down to incompetence.

    What Bush and Blair did after was appalling. Oh I dont want to think about Blair this early in a day he makes me sick. Lying shitbag.

    One thing I have often wondered is why the Democrats did not go after Bush more when the war was exposed as being (as we all knew) built on lies? If the US can try to impeach a president for having sex for God's sake but not starting an illegal war then times are bad.

  6. Excellent piece Montana. Pity we can't get this sort of quality Atl on Cif.

  7. Yes excellent piece, I suspected there would be when I realised the date.

    My parents generation had the moon landing as their defining event, I find it tragic and depressing that ours gets this.

  8. Hi Montana

    You really should propose this piece on CiF.

    People are affected by traumatic events even if they happen to other people.

    For two years I worked with a young lawyer who died in the tsunami of Boxing Day 2004. He drowned alongside his wife of six months who was newly pregnant. I c&n't tell you how deathly the office became after that news. He was Swedish, of Korean origin, and the only good thing was that he and his wife were two of the six bodies who were repatriated immediately (to Stockholm).

    For months every time I passed a certain office and the door was open I would see him standing there.

    A sombre day....


  9. That was a great piece, will you post it on cif?


  10. Bella: I imagine Montana will be pleased at your reaction and your suggestion.

    As you possibly know, she lives in Iowa and is therefore six hours behind us. It will be another couple of hours before she gets up and, in all likelihood, by the time she gets home from work and reads your comment, September 11th will be almost over for most of us.

    Her e-mail, should you wish to attempt to contact her in the meantime, is thewildhack@gmail.com though it’s likely she won’t be checking that until much later today either.

    Obviously I can’t speak for Montana or give you permission to post her piece anywhere on Cif, but maybe you could include it for the time being in your *Best of the web* section.

  11. Adding my voice to the "great piece" chorus.

    Much as I think most of the Troofers are RAVING LOONIES (ahem), you have to admit that it was awfully convenient for Cheney/Bush/Rummy etc. I mean, they'd been trying to work out how to invade Iraq since before Bush even took office.

  12. andysays

    Thanks, we will put it in best of the web right now.


  13. Done - we just added it. Hope it's okay with you Montana, tell us if not.

  14. elementary_watson11 September, 2009 11:55

    Great piece, I agree with everyone else here.

  15. Bella, Jessica: Thanks for that.

    I hope you’ll try to contact Montana direct and maybe get her OK to post the piece on Cif itself.

  16. It's interesting to see how whimsical and random selection for the Best of the Web section is.

    I'm not saying that the article at the top of this page shouldn't be featured- it should. But some of the shite that is touted at the best of the web really shouldn't be.

    Or is an article on feminist country and western signers really the cream of humanity's intellectual output? It is according to someone I guess.

  17. Just here to echo the "great piece" comments.

  18. Greetings everyone.
    I came by here today because I wanted some input on what I consider to be a rather disturbing event in the village I consider my 'home town'. There are some people who visit CiF whose opinions I respect, but a quick glance through the site didn't turn up any of those, so I wandered over here. In some respects, the article to which I link is tied in peripherally to Montana's opening piece - whatwith the after-effects of nine/eleven.
    I find, from the article, the quote, "I can tell you Hardin will be the safest city of the United States," to be rather disconcerting.
    I'm in the process of developing an opinion on the topic(not that it matters much, I'm not a resident so my 'say' is minimal) - so I'm encouraging anyone to comment.


    Please and thank you :)

  19. My apologies for not identifying myself.


  20. In case anyone hasn’t noticed, annetan42’s ATL piece appeared a couple of hours ago.

    Labour has lost its roots

    What’s the form, Cath? Am I supposed to read it, or do I just comment *great piece* straight away?

  21. Just sticking my head round the door again to say well done and well said to both Montana and Anne. Good stuff.

    Oh and also to Jessica - fair play for turning up to explain yourself (last post on previous thread) but sorry to say you're still missing the point. Unless of course you've also volunteered yourself for pre-mod or banning.

  22. Yahay!
    Well deserved congratulations to annetan & Montana!

  23. Hi Hank
    How you doing?

  24. Well said, montana.

    9milerancher - very interesting article about the jail. I, for one, would like to see you posting here more often. We could use more points of view from the US, especially pov's that aren't Cif kneejerk PresidentD or JohnQPublic.

  25. Latest score - annetan 132 - polly toynbee 70.

    Says it all. Nice one, anne.

  26. I'm good thanks, MsChin, and you?

    Oh also got to say belting post on here from MF last night. Shame CiF couldn't go for the Untrusted hat trick today.

    Right, I'm off to see a man about a dog...

  27. Oooh! Just logged on and so exciting to see that Annetan and Montana finally get the recognition they deserve! \o/

    9milerancher - I will take a look at your link too.

    (Evening everyone, btw. IT'S FRIDAY !!!!!)

  28. Some fairly predictable responses to anne's article, but I particularly liked this one from serial fuckwit offender, Auric:

    'Just a question, annetan42 - are you a `working person`? Do the chattering classes qualify?'

    So do tell us, anne - how's the Fairtrade coffee and back-biting gossip at Polly's Tuscany soirees? Does Matt sneak out for a spliff and a line while Monbiot borrows his bike to speed into the village to get more Rizlas for Joan Smith? Do you often chatter about how the working classes simply aren't what they used to be?

    I bet Auric thinks you do. Of course, he is a moron.

  29. LOL Scherf. I saw that post and thought it was bollocks too.

    Annetan... the chatterati? Gimme a break!

  30. Yay great stuff annetan & Montana - I always wanted to be where the cool kids hang out, found it at last!

  31. Izziiiit?

    Down wit da kidz on da Untrust-ed, blud!

  32. BB - alas my familiarity with teen slang runs out at the tail end of the Archie comics c. 1966; but I salute & second your celebration of the Untrusted Swing Factor - groovy baby!

    Night guys and thanks again to Montana for that truly excellent memorial. And thanks to Jessica for taking note of it.

  33. Night night Edwin.

    a) I have a teenage son who delights in his "chav" impersonations. I shouldn't laugh and I try not to encourage him, because it is a form of snobbery with which I have no truck. But it is bloody funny sometimes.

    The other day he and his friend were trying to figure out why there seemed to be fewer "chavs" this year, and went into an Ali G type routine, accents and all, about them not being interested in GCSEs but getting ready for their new careers of being fathers at 16 and getting a wide-screen telly off the council. I ought to have pulled them both by the ear and sent them to bed with no supper...

    b) I sadly have clients in the youth courts who speak like that...

  34. Ah, yes. The lovely time-delay. Maybe someday I'll figure out a way of living in the right time zone, eh?

    Thank you, everyone for appreciating this piece. Bella and Jessica: I'm flattered that you liked it enough to put it on "Best of the Web". Going to have to see if it's still there -- vanity, you know!

  35. My main problem with 'The Troof' is that it presupposes a level of organisational competence not commonly seen in governments.

    The people who were supposedly behind the twin towers attacks are also the people who were unable to get water to the superdome during hurricane Katerina.

  36. @9milerancher:

    So, if I understand that correctly -- they're leasing out the empty jail to a company that will "import" prisoners from California? And that they will eventually be training mercenaries there, too? I wouldn't want that in my town, I can tell you that much. Scary. The whole concept of for-profit prisons and for-profit 'military' forces scares the crap out of me.

  37. I can't help cackling every time I see this advert on tv at the moment.

    Drugs Turn You Into A Mutant!!

    Reefer Madness!!!! ZOMG!

    Da rozzers will be able to see your mutant eyes from 10ft away at night through two car windows!!

    They really must think people are stupid, though, eh?

  38. BeautifulBurnout,
    Love you to bits petal but may I point out that an Ali G impersonation is not that of a chav?
    Ali G is taking off a 'wigger'.
    I speak like a chav. Unless I'm on the phone of course.

  39. Bella and Jess on here yesterday, BB best of the comments yday also, Annetan gets a blog and then Montana gets a "best of the web" citation.

    You guys have put out like Parisian brunettes for chewing gum and nylons...

    Don't get me wrong, folks, I think that you're all well-deserving of a bit of the spotlight, but I can't help feeling that there's something a little bit, well, sordid, incestuous, back-covering about it all.

    Jessica would have been banned if she wasn't above the line. You can't say things like she did and get away with it. She's lucky to have her job still.

    Bella calls someone "mental". Nah, that's wrong. Don't try to defend it. That's a deletion, and a premod.

    And then they're both over here trying to put out the fires, and then, well heh, throwing choccie coins to the carnival goers.

    And still, here I am waiting for an answer as to whether the liberal egalitarian Graun treats posters differently to staff.

    As if we didn't know.

    Asd if we don't all know that any mention of Tuscany will see a post deleted, regardless of its relevance when a bourgeois liberal tells the rest of us how to live.

    Or how posts detailing the educational backgrounds of Graun staffers is deleted, not because it's untrue in anyway, but simply because it makes the Hampstead liberals all look a bit fucking hypocritical.

    Just as Jessica and Bella do when they come on here and justify behaviour which sees the plebs banned, while they get away scot free.

    Nah, I'm sure there's a lot of you on here who find me boring and a tired old class warrior, which is why I don't bother you much anymore, but I really really fucking hate middle class hypocrisy and the expectation of nice bourgeois girls like Jessica that a sweet smile and a mealy mouthed apology will absolve them of anything.

  40. Right, just read that back, loved it, but I'm deffo off now (-;

    It's been fun, but in the morning I'll be sober)-:

    Seriously though, no offence to anyone here who's got a bit of recognition today. I would rather read BB, Anne and Montana above pretty much any Graun writers (Maz, Monbiot, Brooker and Jenkins excepted) but don't you all find it a bit, well, eurggh!!?

  41. BB,
    It would appear that the workers are revolting.
    If it helps with the chav thing have a look at my blog, it's full of 'em.

  42. @ Hank

    Go Hank...

    Go man go - good too see that you still like to call by. I for one quite like old class warriors - even those well disposed to Notts.

    Would be interested to hear why "...Jenkins excepted"

    Regards deano30

  43. Hi deano - if you want to catch some old nonsense...anne's thread around pages 4 and 5, having fun with Furius Camillus and JeremyJames.

    Keep the faith (-;

  44. I suspected it was you you bastard.

  45. This comment has been removed by the author.

  46. @ Montana

    I think that most who post here would have you in the right time zone if we could sort it - 'till then we know you are in the right head zone.

    Your post today was special - in Yorks that means class.