14 September 2009

Daily Chat 14/09/09

One of those days, I'm afraid. Not much happened to be bothered with and Morten Harket and human trainwreck Amy Winehouse are as good as it apparently gets for birthdays. Damn Catholic Church can't even come up with a saint's feast any more interesting than Notberga. Really. In honour of the fact that Tonga, Kiribati and Nauru joined the U.N. in 1999, enjoy the lovely Tongan beach scene and be grateful that I didn't post an A-ha video.


  1. good morning!...To the IP address..I only have to say,that we are several over here at ONE pc..only me and my man did comment on the guard...but...as we tried to argue with them...what to do in that case? same IP address...but at least..2 people!...no answer!
    anyway...I need a holiday from this bunch...I know how to recognise poisonous mutually increasing attitudes in groups.If they need to humiliate people, it must be the hell hidden in their own crowd...I have not the nerve this days to handle their ethical weakness.
    I didn't feel well, reading the post yesterday too...I don't know..even if grandpa was smoking havanas too...the room was somewhere too "boy´s sarcastic" for my bruised flower petals.I wonder if the UK are addicted to the "cool attitude" instead of emotionality. Makes me feel uncomfortable. Out of what heart, may the revolt come,in that case?..I hope you don't get me wrong...I cherish this alternative...solidarity is so precious in such solitary exclusion moments...but, do I make sense to someone? I got no answer after my posts.I get lost...does Bella from the guard...write in here? or is it another one?...maybe.6.26 am...is a bit too early to post...!It might be a sunny Indian summer day...harvest is such a soft bounty here.tys

  2. The "funny"thing..is that I work sometimes with media people. But as we all know...it needs an awareness of the own problems to have the wish to confront oneself or as group with it.The mutually back-tapping crowded "holy pen" sardine can...for sure...has not!

    I doubt that this people had ever a training in group processes.That is one of the reason,they react so insecure control obsessive miss trusting more egalitarian solutions of communication.tys

  3. 'Morten Harket' - never heard of him, but there is a nicely spooneresque Horten Market in Norway

    'Horten Market' is also an anagram for Meerkat North, which sounds like it should be our cyber consitituency -

    Matt Seaton: 'where are andy, BB, BW, and Hank and Bru these days O faithful servants?'

    Jess/Bella: [in unison} 'leafleting in Meerkat North, O great lord'

  4. sounds like insider talk again!...maybe if I try a homoeopathic remedy against seasickness...I´L might hold the boat railing..in confidence!tys

  5. Damn, damn, damn! They put Anne's thread up just after I left work on Friday and I haven't logged in all weekend ... off to read it now!

  6. If you live long enough you get some odd role reversals. Yesterday my kids took me to the zoo on my birthday.

  7. From yesterday: "On reflection I think you are right Hank - the credit for getting the queen-bee off her throne and engaging with proles BTL properly belongs to Comrade MF.#"

    Eh I'm not having that.


    I even beat Tim "pendant" Worstall.

  8. TYS

    Je vais vous parler en francais - aussi bien que je puisse le faire - parce-ce-que je ressens que vous n'etes pas heureuse d'etre ici.

    Ce qui vous est arrive sur CiF est mauvais, mais ce n'est pas necessairement un evenement rare. Il y en a parmi les "Untrusted" ceux qui on eu leurs "identites CiF" aussi bien que leurs postes, disparrus plusieurs fois.

    Mais c'est tres importante de s'en souvenir que, franchement, Le Guardian a le droit de faire exactement ce qu'ils ont envie de faire dans la mesure que ca leur appartient.

    En ce qui concerne ce site ici - Untrusted - vous etes la bienvenue, bien sur, mais, comme tout forum internet, vous ne pouvez pas exiger a ce que les gens vous repondent s'ils n'ont pas envie; de plus, si vous n'aimez pas l'ambiance ici, je dirais que ce n'est pas tres polie de votre part, en arrivant juste, de critiquer ceux qui ont fait partie de ce site depuis sa "naissance".

    Si vous voulez continuer de contribuer, tant mieux. Ca fait toujours plaisir d'avoir des nouvelles sonnes de cloche par ici. Si, par contre, vous etes venues pour nous dire ce que nous faisons de mal a vos yeux, ne soyez pas decues si certains ne soient pas content avec ca.

    Je m'excuse d'eventuelles fautes d'orthographe/grammaire. J'espere que vous prendrez ce que je dis dans l'esprit d'inclusivite que j'ai au coeur quand je le dis.

  9. colin,

    I regularly find myself picking my parents up from parties/the airport whenever I'm at theirs'!

    (My Dad says it's the only reason he put the time into teaching me to drive!)

  10. Colin - happy Birthday for yesterday! As long as they didn't take you to Godstone Park, you're all right... ;o)

  11. BB,
    What's Godstone park?

    That's funny, I always assumed you were older than me. I'm 71 btw.

  12. Sorry, Colin, that should be Godstone Farm

    I took my lad there once when he was about 5 or 6 - it is a really fab place to visit. Such a shame that it has gone shit-shaped, so to speak.

  13. colin,

    That's hilarious, and certainly puts dreading the "big" birthday I've got coming next year into perspective!

    Happy Birthday for yesterday BTW.

  14. Je ne comprends rien de tout de ce discours ce matin - mais pour les francophones il ne faut pas prendre trop au sérieux ce qui se passe ici. CiF n'est qu'un chat forum, pas une raison d'être.

    J'espère quand même de vous voir souvent ici.

    Bien à vous....

    Just thought I'd help you on that one BB. I'm a bit at sea here.


  15. Morning Bru!

    Not being elitist (frenchist?), just thought it would be nice to explain/clarify things.

    I have managed not to be called into work thus far this morning, but it is irritating because it means I really can't do anything else either.

    I have a bit of work I can do at home, though, so I shall get on with that later.

  16. Bonjour tous

    Happy belated birthday to Colin!

  17. Fair comment, BB. Some people are never happy - they find a reasonably welcoming open forum where they can express themselves without deletion, and yet within five minutes, for some reason, they feel the need to criticize the place. I'm sure that we will survive without such valuable input anyway, although it's always nice when someone has their own agenda and is not really interested in anyone else. I think our new chum might be a little bit self-obsessed. :0) Or am I being too harsh?

  18. Thaumaturge,
    Today is the actual day but unlike me some people have to work, so we went yesterday.
    Got some great pics of meerkats. Pity we can't post them on cif.

  19. BB - yes, thanks, and yourself?

    Congrats on the meerkats, Colin.

  20. Happy Birthday Colin.......

    Am at work (still in Bruges in thoughts though) and thinking of buying Georges Rodenbach's novel Bruges-la-Morte, on which Korngold's opera Die Tote Stadt was based. Rodenbach's book also inspired a French detective novel which in turn inspired the great Hitchcock film "Vertigo".

    Very atmospheric.

    Must get these romantic thoughts out of my head and ooncentrate on work....

    It's I Hate Monday Day with a vengeance.

  21. That was a good post, Frank. Shame I can't recommend it.

    Polly, I'd hazard a guess that underlying much of the aggression you note is the feeling that you columnists pronounce on a world that you don't actually live in.

    Pretty much sums it up for me, and my, how things have not changed very much in the last three and a bit years.

    I'm still laughing at Babs' "luverly WAGs" article. The perfect blend of 'phone it in feminism' coupled with a supreme lack of knowledge about the subject on which you're passing judgement.

    I bet she never watched the Women's Euro final either.

  22. merci pour votre francais!

    Let me share back in english.
    I don't think that power legitimates abuse!
    I don't think...that being a young moderator acting out his moods in the guard..has to be accepted without complains as I doubt it repressents the original guard+and the people fighting for it in difficult times.it would be like associating nulabour with the spirit of few century of social fights.
    I thank those welcoming me...I think those being cynical exclusive "we"/"her" are more elitist than me! I tend to have regenerating forces in me to recover from that expirience who is not my first either.I hope simply you understand..i come from another mindset.I think the english are much to willing to accept control instead of fighting for their freedom in general..I suppose the cromwellian spirit has never made it to a real revolt.merci beaucoup pour vos efforts francophiles. c´est trés attentionné! à plus!....tfy

  23. Pretty much sums it up for me, and my, how things have not changed very much in the last three and a bit years.

    Three and a bit millennia I think.

  24. Three and a bit millennia I think.

    No, it only seems like Polly's been talking bollocks for that long.

  25. No, it only seems like Polly's been talking bollocks for that long.

    No LordSummerIsle, the first time I read the "Labour has a narrative to tell and must be bold" article I'm certain it was in hieroglyphs. What are we on now, the 30th version?

  26. Frank,

    330th: you mean you didn't read the cave painting version?

  27. No LordSummerIsle, the first time I read the "Labour has a narrative to tell and must be bold" article I'm certain it was in hieroglyphs. What are we on now, the 30th version?

    Geez Frank, that'd knock it back to at least 5,000 years ago & still nothing new to say.

  28. 5000 years? is an insult to the preliterate. They knew how to tell a good story.


  29. snigger

    I do feel sorry for Polly. Although maybe I shouldn't - to me, credibility is important. If I was writing the same old bollocks every week, and was being called out on it, and to compound the dreary repetition it was, obviously, bollocks, I would feel that my credibility was being hammered. Polly just doesn't seem fussed by that - so maybe her credibility isn't important to her, but if that's the case, why write? She can't think she's persuading anyone can she? She can't think she's going to turn it around? So is it just for the money?

    Only a fool writes *purely* for money.

    Mind you, given the renewed burst of pro-Labour propaganda on the BBC today, maybe they do think they can turn it around.

  30. Polly may write for the same reason that some post here and there - vanity.

  31. "Polly may write for the same reason that some post here and there - vanity."

    Bet the c£150K helps though

  32. If she ever gets her wish to see tax returns posted on line as public documents we shall know her income for sure - or least what her accounts department consider it to be.

  33. Polly publicly revealed her Guardian salary some time ago - £106,000 pa, she said.

  34. From parliament.uk


    Prentice, Gordon
    That this House applauds Polly Toynbee, the Guardian journalist and co-author of the book Unjust Rewards for volunteering details of her salary to the Public Administration Select Committee in its first evidence session on Executive Pay in the Public Sector; notes that she receives £106,000 per annum; and urges journalists, broadcasters, commentators, politicians and others to follow her example before pronouncing on pay levels in the public sector by first disclosing their own income, earned and unearned.

  35. At an average of one a week that's about 2k per column ... or does she do other stuff at Guardian HQ such as clean the toilets or go out and collect the frappuccino order?

    'Cos that's a nonsense salary for Polly's contribution. It'd be a nonsense salary even if her column was indespensable reading. It'd still be fairly generous if it contained the answer to life, the universe and everything.

  36. Cheers Scherfig - she does have a certain consistency on openness about her. Verges on the admirable if you know what I mean.

    Wonder what Keith Waterhouse used to get paid.

  37. Hmm, a very french flavour over here today, a certain, as the french might say, "I don't know what" :)

    I agree that we shouldn't get too wound up about CiF, it *is* only a newspaper site. Remind me of that next time I get wound up though!

    "Polly may write for the same reason that some post here and there - vanity."

    True, I only post with my top off so I can look at my abs in the mirror... ;)


  38. **** "WORLD MUSIC" ALERT ****
    Got no sleep last night, just couldn't get off, so I had world service on, and caught Charlie Gillet's show at stupid o'clock this morning. Really really glad I did.

    He had a a band on - paraplegic street kids from Kinchasa. I shit you not. They were bloody brilliant.

    Never heard anything like them. http://www.myspace.com/staffbendabilili

    (Posted in full cogniscance that my second paragraph probably wins me "tofu-knitting pseud of the month", but I really don't care. They were awesome)

    The track from another band "The Very Best" off Warm Heart of Africa was great too... but those street kids. Flipping heck.

    You can hear the whole prgramme here.

    Stick it on while you're weaving some tofu or planting some sandals.

    I would.

  39. The answer to life the universe and everything is reputed to be 42.

  40. "Tofu-knitting pseud of the month"


    I feel really embarassed when I have to buy tofu for the brat, so I make sure and chuck a really big, greasy bit of meat into the trolley as well, just so people don't think it's me.....

  41. I dont' begrudge her the money - and that's basic btw, doesn't include appearance fees etc - it's the assumption that this is "normal" that cracks me up. She once described it as a "professional" salary. Now, quite apart from the fact that Ms Toynbee has no professional qualifications and even got into Oxford with a single A level, that's rather telling - she really does assume anyone who has a couple of letters after their name can earn the same. And I guess if you're earning that, you can afford to lose another three or four percent to taxes without it hurting too much. This is where she goes entirely wrong. Polly, your "progressive" taxation is walloping ordinary mortals who *cannot* afford to lose those percentage points. In her world I think losing that dosh equates to skipping a weekend shopping in NY, or buying the nanny a base model MINI - in our world it means you can't go on holiday, or can't send your kids to uni.

    I know she did her book on low income earners... so perhaps she knows what it's like at the bottom, and she knows what it's like at the top, but Poll, it's those of us in the middle who are paying the price of these socialist adventures,a nd we're not prepared to pay any more.

  42. The answer to life the universe and everything is reputed to be 42

    It was 42 under the last Labour government. Under the Conservatives it dropped to 39 but 12 years of New Labour has seen it rise to an unprecedented 48. Experts are predicting it might rise as high as 51 before the next election.

  43. I dont' begrudge her the money

    I do. It's a freaking ridiculous amount of money for her contribution. Paying her that amount makes any comments that the Guardian may have on matters of executive or celebrity pay rather hollow.

  44. Anon

    Trouble is, they were asking the wrong question. I'd ask the mice if I were you...

  45. Yeah, it's not exactly minimum wage. Money for old trope, I suppose.
    I wonder if she's got the same agent as John Terry.

  46. Frank, don't be mean to Polly. She's dreadfully concerned about the phossy-tongued girls in the matchstick factory and their quite dreadful working conditions. She's stopped buying Swan Vestas as a result and now "makes her own fire" from ethically-sourced sticks, which she buys from a charming little man with the horny hands of a true son of toil. Well, the cleaner buys them, but noblesse still oblige and all that...

  47. Well it's a free market SummerIsle - although I agree, the salaries she and Russbridger etc get does rather blow a hole in the Guardian's campaigns against exec pay. Here they are ranting against bonuses against a backdrop of falling profits, yet that's *exactly" what's happening at Guardian Media Group - sales down, salaries and bonuses up.

    And they can't understand why people term them hypocrites.

  48. Exactly, Frank.

    I'd be happier if I could believe there were people out there buying the Guardian because they hang on Polly's every word. That would be fine, a salary commensurate with her value to the business and all that. But somehow I doubt it.

  49. FrankFisher "I know she did her book on low income earners... so perhaps she knows what it's like at the bottom, and she knows what it's like at the top, but Poll, it's those of us in the middle who are paying the price of these socialist adventures,a nd we're not prepared to pay any more."

    The only joy to be had for us (that is me and others like me) who are poor is watching the power being snatched from those power hungry and watching them cry as their toy is taken from them. But it is not enough.
    You deserve the conservatives in power you really do.
    About time the British faced what they supported the last thirty years and woke up to what happens "NEXT". It was those in the middle that administered the shit onto the poor. I laugh at the prospect of the Conservatives trashing your fake jobs and fake aspirations and wealthier than thou snot.

    If you cannot afford to send your children to university it is because the country cannot afford you. Face it. There used to be free education but those in the middle administered it away. It was the middle class which shot itself in the foot these last 30 years. Being loyal to the honey pot did you no good in the long run. Welcome to the bottom. Get used to it.

    It must mean socialism is neoliberalism.

    People only know what it is like at the bottom when they are at the bottom. Anything else is just tourism.


  50. Scherfig

    Money for old trope

    I'm not sure whether to groan or laugh really loudly!

  51. Nice one Lord S.

    Frank - if my sums are any good and you can get a base model MINI for 3-4% of Polly's approximate income let me know where. We might all yet be rich.

    In truth here is no insurmountable obstacle to your kids going to Uni - they can borrow like most students do these days.

    What most of us who post here forget is that average income in the UK is only about £25K and that means a hell of a lot are living on a lot. less.

    Public spending means a lot to these people and that means taxes. I know some would prefer a eugenic solution but that's not my kind of answer to the underclass.

    I would prefer to see the very rich and the non doms properly taxed before we get on to seriously discuss the tax take from the middle classes.

    In any event income tax is only part of the story. I want more talk about tax avoidance/evasion and inheritance taxes. We need to talk about wealth when we talk about tax.

    I'm starting to consider the Land Value Tax arguments that are increasingly been spoken off.

    'Physiocrat' over on the CiF economic threads usually posts links to an interesting website.

    Frank - your kids have a deal in common with my kids, the day they they were all born they were pretty much in hock to the likes of Gerald Grosvenor twat of Westminster. It's the likes of him and his mates tax bills which are more interesting than Polly's for starters.

    I don't somehow think that the Bullingdon Brotherhood are going to deal with these problems.

    Perhaps if they cut your taxes a little you and yours could reside in a gated community and all would be well. But you would still have to venture out from time to time...

  52. I look forward to Comrade Cameron's
    Conservative Party and their communist policies.


  53. Swifty - I thought it was phossy jaw.

  54. And you will know why they were 'mad as a hatter' - mercury to stiffen the fabric.

  55. @deano:

    Yep, you're quite right mate - slip of the pen, but no excuses, you're quite right.

  56. Tofu-eating pseuds? Crikey reminds me of the Daily Mail's pet hate: muesli-eating liberals.

    I eat tofu at times - but then I'm very precious and loathe meat.

    Is it a pre-requisite that we all stuff ourselves with a full English breakfast complete with black-puddin' and fried bread before we can post on here?

    Getting me coat rather quickly......

  57. @ TFY - a belated welcome to the madhouse.

    @ R. - a welcome or hello to you too (my attention span is that of knat so you may have been around for some time and I missed your arrival) - "Anything else is just tourism" I liked it.

  58. Fried white bread Bru. You are allowed to cut it into triangles if you like.

  59. No wonder the entire show is going down the pan.
    I have never been a fascist but I tell you people here. The worst kind of fascist is the one that doesn't know it. "Well done!" You made a Conservative government possible. Sound nice twittering comes from the lizard part of the brain. Avoidance has it's price.


  60. Thank you deano30


  61. eggy bread with maple syrup.............

    (I made it for my breakfast in bed on Saturday, mmmmmmmmmmmmm)

  62. "Is it a pre-requisite that we all stuff ourselves with a full English breakfast complete with black-puddin' and fried bread before we can post on here?"

    No, but I have got some lard going spare... (long story !)

  63. I am just about to eat left over thai beef with sticky rice... mmmm....

  64. BB

    for breakfast ?!?!?!

  65. I have just had a late breakfast early snack of a large portion of bread and butter pudding made with extra eggs. Delicious.

    BW - the lard saga is not a long story it's a sorry one, a simple case of mistaken identity so to speak.

    Time to take the dogs for a walk...

  66. deano30

    Indeed, a very simple case...

  67. Dot - brunch, really. I had a cup of tea when I got up, then forgot to eat...

  68. I wish I could train myself to forget to eat more often, then I wouldn't be so podgy. Sigh...

    As the old joke goes, I'm an amnesiac bulemic - I stuff my face, then I forget to throw up....

  69. Spotted Dick anyone? A British neighbour once insisted I take a whole bowl she had left over. I couldn't get up for a week.

    Soon be Christmas and you can all have turkey leftovers for the entire month of January plus fried Christmas pudding.

  70. Bru

    Please DO NOT mention the C word around here yet please!

  71. Returning to the Polly theme for a mo. Does anyone recall a book she wrote c1970 detailing her time spent working in a clothing factory. I may have mis remembered this but I'm sure I recall that she was working there in order to write about the lot of the lower orders so didn't let on who she was. Doing a sort of rich girls George Orwell without too much hardship. Anyway it ended with her regretting that she couldn't continue the friendship she had struck up with one of the other girls because of the difference in their backgrounds ! I was pretty gobsmacked by this at the time but I suppose it fits the subsequent career.

    THORNAVIS ( cant get the site to accept my URL so had to post anonymously ).

  72. "Anyway it ended with her regretting that she couldn't continue the friendship she had struck up with one of the other girls because of the difference in their backgrounds !"

    That is bloody outrageous!

    Grrr... my blood is boiling now!

  73. Brusselsexpats

    Last Christamas I ate so much I foie-grased my own liver

  74. BW - probably all that lard in the xmas pud.

  75. Bonjour everyone

    Just back from la belle France, car groaning under the weight of much wine, saucisson, and many fags. Wish I could rush straight back to lolling in bars and ambling about in 30% of heat. A n'importe quoi excitant l'incident été ? Have I missed much?

    I see Polly is still exercising everyone - there's a surprise...

  76. Hi Sheff - sounds as though you had the priorities right. Hope you had lots of fun.

    My best ever holiday was at a place that had beaches like those in the Tonga picture above. My son married in a tiny beach resort in Fiji a couple of years ago - bliss. And a round the world trip thrown in.

    Don't forget it's stoat's birthday today!

  77. Welcome back, Sheff!

    I have been slowly working my way through the wine too. I have to keep some for Christmas though..

  78. A toast to the stoat !

    Sheff - fetchez le vin !

  79. Will everyone PLEASE stop talking about ruddy C£r%&^m*s!!!!!!!!!!

  80. elementary_watson14 September, 2009 16:42

    Dotterel, sorry, something must have happened to the last word you wrote, I really cannot decipher it.

    Did you mean Christmas, by any chance?

  81. I'd love to invite you all round to share this wine I got in Baum de Venise in the Ventoux - especially you stoaty, as it's your birthday - but sadly can only make a virtual toast to you all...which I'm doing now...Salut!

    BB - if only I could make it last till Christmas! - 2nd week in October would be good going in my case, especially once the family hoards get their hands on it.

    Haven't seen the Graun in two weeks and am now girding my loins to have a quick squint at cif - anything to recommend?

  82. I think I meant 'hordes' - amazing the effect of a half decent Cotes du Rhone on my spelling....

  83. Sheff - lots of anti-racist/anti-muslim bitchslapping going on. As usual.

    Annetan had a piece ATL - if you look in the You Said It section I think it's still linked - Labour losing its core values is the theme.

  84. Sheff - welcome back! Anne's piece would be a good place to start - it was published on Friday afternoon.

    Merci pour le vin!

  85. elementary

    Yes I did, now can we ban that word until at least 01/12/09 please?

  86. BB - Anne's piece seems to have gone - I'd be really sorry to miss it. anyone got a link to it / or can tell me where to find it?

  87. Hi Sheff - if you click the calendar linky thing on the bottom left of the main Cif page, you should get to it.

  88. elementary_watson14 September, 2009 16:58

    Dotterel: Ah, this just gets me thinking about good old Edmund Blackadder, Esq. and the actors hired to train the Prince of Wales' public speaking. As it is known that actors don't like the word "Macbeth" uttere in their presence, as they are superstitious ...

    BA: So, you want me to call it "The Scottish Play"?

    Actors: YES!

    BA: Instead of "Macbeth"?

    Won't do this game with certain holidays, although I *am* tempted >:-)

  89. Thank you elementary, much appreciated

  90. So it's "the Scottish holidays" now?

  91. The Scottish Holidays?

    Oh ... Christmas.

  92. %&&&$" %&"$%& $%&%^*&^( *&(^&£ $"$^%$!!!!

  93. Actually I'm with Dot here. I fuckin hate the Scottish holidays.

  94. thauma,

    I don't hate them: in their proper place (the end of December)

    It's the overblown, commercialisation, pressure-to-spend-all-your-money-6-month-countdown I can't stand!

  95. Yes, one day of eating and drinking is fine (actually, any day of eating and drinking is fine); it's the intolerable lead-up that starts earlier every bloody year.

  96. Thanks for all good wishes. I was persuaded to drink proper beer instead of the usual lager and have a hangover you could photograph. Don't know how you sandal wearers do it.

    Roll on Christmas lets have some nuts!

  97. When your name is Mungo every day is a Scottish Holiday.

    Came across a bad case of what looked like myxomatosis whilst out with the dogs.I was able to help the poor rabbit meet its maker a little more quickly but it really is a vile disease.

    Dotterel/anyone - have you ever heard of dogs contracting myxomatosis? I thought it was exclusively rabbits but I just read elsewhere that someone had dogs that became infected??

  98. Deano

    According to wiki answers, dogs can't get myxo.

  99. 'dogs can't get myxo.'


    Well as long as you don't give them a cheese toastie followed by a ham toastie - as any fule know, dogs get ill from mixing their toasties.

  100. Cheers BB - that was always my understanding.

    Talking of understanding, I put your french passage above into one the translation gadgets - erm stern lady BB.

    The translation offered required a little head scratching and even then it didn't sound like you at all!

  101. Edwin what you on friend? - I'll have one of what he's drinking.

  102. Deano!
    That's the problem with online translators. They don't translate properly!

    I don't think I was being stern - just explaining things, and quite compassionately I thought. Ah well.


  103. hmmm...just found this...

    #This is Orwell’s entry for June 10, 1942:

    The only time when one hears people singing in the BBC is in the early morning, between 6 and 8. That is the time when the charwomen are at work. A huge army of them arrives all at the same time, they sit in the reception hall waiting for their brooms to be issued to them and making as much noise as a parrot house, and then they have wonderful choruses, all singing together as they sweep the passages. The place has a quite different atmosphere at this time from what it has later in the day.

    I couldn’t help thinking of the singing washerwoman in Nineteen Eighty-Four, perhaps the personification of the ‘Spirit of Man’ that Winston claims will ultimately defeat the Party:

    The birds sang, the proles sang, the Party did not sing… #


  104. Come on Bro - what is the secret?

    How come you still have so many brain cells left functioning.

    I am only 62 and I've already lost more than you. Life is sometimes not fair. Enjoy the next 71 my friend.

  105. Wonder if anyone sings at cif...

  106. BB - bless you I could sense the compassion.

    It was, however, the case that the translation offered to me made me want to run and hide under an armoured tank. I really did feel welcome - but then I have skin as thck as rhino.

    MF - a great start to the evenings entertainment. Cheers.

  107. deano, BB, this is babelfish's garbled version of BB's fine admonition :

    'TYS I will speak to you in French - as well as I can make it - parce-EC-that I feel that you n' summers not happy d' to be here. What you east arrives on CiF is bad, but this n' is not necessarily a rare event. There is among the " Untrusted" those which one have their " CiF" identities; as well as their stations, disparrus several times. But c' is very important of s' in remembering that, frankly, Guardian has the right to make this qu' exactly; they want to make in measurement that Ca belongs to them. With regard to this site here - Untrusted - you summers the welcome, of course, but, like any forum Internet, you cannot require has what people answer you s' they n' do not want; moreover, if you n' do not like l' environment here, I would say that this n' is not very polished of your share, while arriving just, to criticize those which belonged to this site since its " naissance". If you want to continue to contribute, so much better. Ca always gives pleasure d' to have news sound bell by here. If, on the other hand, you summers come to say to us what we do of evil has your eyes, be not disappointed so some are not content with Ca I m' excuse d' possible faults d' orthography/grammar. J' hope that you will take what I say in l' d' spirit; inclusivite that j' have in the middle when I say it.

    I raise my glass to 'd'spirit, inclusivite'!!!

  108. Dearest BB

    Any woman who ever said 'moreover' to me found me as putty in her kind and wise world.

  109. MF - I'm sure cif management would insist on a risk assessment before anyone was permitted to sing - could undermine good order and concentration on deleting insubordinate comments.

  110. Deano

    That translation is hilarious :D

    MF - I doubt they would be allowed to sing.

    Olching. Agreed.

    Although part of me says that perhaps we should deregulate banking and allow them their laissez-faire if that's what they want. Except it should be backdated a couple of years and include allowing the invisible hand of the market to push them all out of business, instead of coming with their begging bowls to the government. Then we could, say, invest in the National Savings Bank and in public services instead!

  111. Good Lord, Olching. That thread truly is a box of shite and no mistake. One has to seriously question the sanity of the bloke who wrote it, and the motives of those who published it.

  112. olching

    Have just started reading Sebastian Faulks's A week in December. One of the major characters is a hedge fund manager by the name of Veals. Faulks describes him as follows:

    "Somewhere in the passageways of John Veals's mind, beyond the thoughts of wife, children, daily living, carnal urges, beyond the scar tissue of experience and loss, there was a creature whose heart beat only to market movements. He couldn't be happy as a man if his positions weren't making money. For John Veals, the analysis of a potential position was therefore more than a business or a mathematical problem; it involved something painfully close to self knonwledge. His life depended upon it."

    It's a really good read - I think Faulks has got this type off to a tee.

  113. I noticed an article in the graun today that suggests Britain may be forced to bail out one or more of its offshore tax havens next. These are tax havens that lose about £25 billion in tax to the UK - but they appear to be running to HMG for help now.

    Think I'll have another drink before I implode...

  114. Excellent quote, sheff...more worryingly, though, is the fact that Anthony Evans teaches at a higher education institute, and I think PeterG is absolutely right in calling for dissenting voices (which must and do exist) from said departments and schools.

    It's funny - we often disagree on various issues, but when a free market extremist comes along, we all agree that it's utter shite...

    Hi to the Lord and BB....

  115. Sheff - there was review of the batch of new post-crash literature including (Birdsong?) Faulks whilst you were away.

    I'm most impressed with the notion that we are in the shit we are 'cos the NASSA budget was cut and what then would you expect unemployed rocket scientist mathematicians to do?

  116. BB,

    That wouldn't be fair. Come on, we can't not state-sponsor total free-market bolloxism...surely you can see the, er, paradox, or not, or yes...I give up...

  117. Olching

    When it comes to these bastards I rather hoped you'd join me in the firing squad if ever we get the opportunity.

  118. Yes, sheff, I would...by the way, Questionnaire has put the boot in...Anthony whatshisface is being mauled...the least he deserves...

  119. The point is that these bastards aren't merely putting forward a point of view, they have had and are continuing to have a real impact on people's lives. They are criminals. It's not merely a discourse, but a real, tangible violence. Wankers.

    We often debate No Platform ideas re the BNP. I certainly think these wankers ought to be no-platformed.

  120. Olching - "..free market extremist.........utter shite"

    You don't perchance have a reference for Adam Smith's observation in Wealth of Nations to the effect that....

    "......men of the same trade seldom but come together but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public interest....."

    do you?

    And whilst I'm at it Bertrand Russel's ten(ish) commandments/principles for a liberal education?

    All of my books have been in my daughter's cellar for the last ten years and my memory starts to fade.

  121. Oh Kizbot - you class lass. Can you do mine?

  122. Christ, you lot have been busy today - 129 comments and counting.

    Happy Birthday colin.

    Welcome back sheff.

    And hi to everyone else.

  123. Ah cool.

    The Kizbot and the Pixie both back! \o/

  124. Andy - a proper welcome for R. is due.

    You are so much warmer at it than BB or me.

  125. Deano, sadly I don't...not to hand...

  126. Olching

    yes, lovely comment from questionnaire - about sums them up.

  127. Oh, alright then deano:

    Welcome to The Untrusted, R.

    (I’ve apparently been appointed by deano as the semi-official welcomer of new visitors. Can’t imagine why)

    I hope you’ll excuse me for not noticing you in the forest of comments that greeted me on my return home.

    Are you RexMundie who first arrived last night?

    If so, who is the

    *self styled 'conscience of the left'*

    you were interested in fucking, and did you manage to do so?

  128. sorry Deano... can't help! I had to phone a nice chap who gave me instructions on what to do... far too complicated to remember...

  129. Jesus H Chris!

    Polly's got her 3rd thread since Friday up. This time she's got the gall to claim that CRB checks for anyone coming into regular contact with kids would have saved Baby P.

  130. Yes, that was a very warm welcome there andy...

  131. Lovely or brutal...whichever way you see it sheff...in any case, a joy to read...

    Off now...

  132. Just a question kiz.

    Our new visitor can answer it or not, as they choose.
    I’ve definitely seen the RexMundie name before, but there isn’t one on Cif (I’ve just checked) and I wouldn’t have spotted it in The Telegraph, as deano suggests, because I never go there.

    Maybe I’ve seen it on one of my occasional visits to Heresy Corner. Does it ring any bells with you, Edwin?

    I’m just curious.

    Today’s R may not even be RexMundie from last night, but whoever it is, my welcome is genuine.

  133. Andy - we don't have semi officials here.

    In the absence of Montana - you is Vice Roy (of the rovers)

  134. deano
    No, not dogs, not mixy, but they *can* get fox-mange. So can people.

    So be careful...

  135. what does fo mange do to people...? I've seen dogs and cats with the mange... but never a person..

  136. Rings no bells andy - just googled the name (I am having an extremely slow slow day) -


    and 'RexMundie' crops up a few places notably the Torygraph.

  137. Andy I don't read the Tele - I just googled the name and there is an unpleasant one over there.

    That don't mean R. is the same.

    Montana's new and deserved fame and accolade over on CiF should mean we have new and welcome readers and writers here.

    Let's be wise children - when we have more than a couple of hundred comments here on Annetan42's great article there - dem pigs will sweat.

  138. GP01 - on Polly's Guardian salary (see previous posts), three threads a week works out at £666 per article. Coincidence? Or Armageddon? You decide.

  139. Don't know Kiz, but one of my colleages is a former District Nurse, who also happens to have gronw up on a farm... I don't think she was kidding me... can find out...

  140. Rex Mundi - Latin for 'king of the world'. Maybe it's Leonardo Di Caprio from 'Titanic'.

  141. Kiz: good to see you’ve got your electronic mojo working again (should have said that before, but there’s too much going on).

    deano: *you is Vice Roy (of the rovers)*

    Thanks for the compliment (I think), but it’s really not a role or a title I’m seeking.

    I remember how I was made welcome when I first turned up here (by BB and kiz, I think it was), and that was great, so I try to do the same for new arrivals.

    Edwin: thanks for that.

    Maybe RexMundie can enlighten us, if he (wild guess) is still around and feels like doing so.

    Otherwise my curiosity will lead me to The Telegraph, and I’ll end up feeling dirty for the rest of the week ;-)

  142. deano - my Collins Quotations gives the quote thus from The Wealth of Nations

    "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices. It is impossible indeed to prevent such meetings by any law which either could be executed, or would be consistent with liberty and justice." (vol. I, bk. I, ch. 10.)

  143. @ BW - will look that one up Bro we oft walk by by a fox den.

    No sweat about poorly dogs at mo - both sound as York Minster's Bells.

    Mx is fegging deliberate nasty introduced from Uruguay in 189? - Fucking poor animals if I had my way I would bury the tosser who brought it to UK alive with a myx rabbit stuffed in his gob in a coffin with a battery that would light it for several days. The light would fall on a handwrit message that said 'infinity minus one infinty mius two .......fucking cruel bastard'

    But then I am a dog lover.

  144. Ah ha. My detective training is paying off.

    There is a RexMundie at The Telegraph (ugh, feel unclean) but there is also a rexmundi on Cif, so that must be why the name was familiar.

    So welcome RexMundie or R or rexmundi or however you’re spelling your name.


    *Rex Mundi - Latin for 'king of the world'.*

    I suspect many of us would have got that without your help. Bloody show off ;-)

    *Maybe it's Leonardo Di Caprio from 'Titanic'.*

    But I for one would not have drawn that conclusion...

  145. Isn't "Free Market" becoming a bit of an oxymoron now it seems to be costing us so fuckin much? We seem to have a heavily subsisdised "free market"..fuck knows what a half price market would cost or a knocked off one you got cheap down the pub.

    Makes you wonder what the 'free' refers to...free of regulation?..free of basic morality?...free of any objective justification?...free of logic?...free of chins?

  146. Sheff - embaressed to say this but if you look me up on contributers you can find it there!

    Still trying to get used to the blue C - silly bit of elitism really.

    Getting to second most commented was quite satisfying though!

  147. *Maybe it's Leonardo Di Caprio from 'Titanic'.*

    Nah..he sounds more like the captain or the guy looking out for icebergs...bet he'd be first in the lifeboat, mind, dressed up in a frock with a revolver down his knickers...'survival of the fittest' in a situation like that...basic instinct of the economic determinist type.

  148. Talking of foxes, I found a dead one at my allotment at the weekend.

    There’s quite a few in the area, and I often see one in particular which looks old and mangy, but seems to have survived for quite a while.

    This dead fox is at least the third that’s been found in the past year, and it looked relatively healthy (apart from being dead, of course). I’m wondering if someone is poisoning them.

    Fox shit smells horrible and this corpse stank as well – worse than a dead rat or a dead bird, which I occasionally find. Might be something to do with their diet, though even country foxes with a more natural diet stink, so who knows.

    Is there anything worth reading on Cif today?

    I’ve just read Polly’s latest, and found it so utterly nonsensical that I can’t summon up the energy to comment.

    Maybe an early night is called for...

  149. Easy, andy - it's not showing off. I suspect that very few people nowadays have Latin. Was it patronising to explain it, or should I just have made the Titanic joke and assumed that since we're all Oxford dons with a love of blockbuster Hollywood movies, that we would all chuckle? Tough call! :0)

  150. monkeyfish:

    *'survival of the fittest' in a situation like that...basic instinct of the economic determinist type.*

    That would be my guess after reading one of the comments he posted at The Telegraph.

    *Capitalism will not work* (that’s the title of the thread)

    *until the wilfully unproductive are permitted to starve* (that’s his comment)

    Nice one Rex.

    I wouldn’t dream of styling myself 'conscience of the left', but if that’s a typical example of your comments I don’t think I’ll be engaging with you too much.

    I think I need a bath...

  151. This comment has been removed by the author.

  152. Right, I’ve washed the dirt of the day and the dirt of The Telegraph away, so I’m going to bed.

    Goodnight all.

  153. This comment has been removed by the author.

  154. You is forgived birthday guy - night.