18 September 2009

Daily Chat 18/09/09

The Blackpool Illuminations were switched on for the first time in 1879. Women in the Netherlands received the right to vote in 1919. Actress Peg Entwistle committed suicide by jumping from the Hollywood sign in 1932. Dag Hammarskjöld was killed in a plane crash in 1961. Jimi Hendrix was found dead in a Notting Hill hotel in 1970 and the funeral of Mao Zedong was held on this day in 1976.

Born today: Samuel Johnson (1709-1784), Greta Garbo (1905-1990), Mo Mowlam (1949-2005), Peter Shilton (1949) and DeeDee Ramone (1952-2002).

Rosh Hashanah begins at sundown. Shanah tovah! Let's hope 5770 is a better year than 5769 was.


  1. I've just left this on the WDYWTTA thread and it seems appropriate to put it here, too. Now, I really need to get to bed. Way too late to be up on a school night.

    I'd like someone to explain to me how it is that I can be blamed for comments made by people I've never met, simply because those comments were made on a blog I started? The comments there aren't moderated and people can (and do) even post anonymously. Because I've chosen to leave comments unmoderated, I couldn't possibly ban anyone from commenting there, even if I wanted to.

    There have only been a couple of times when I've deleted comments made by other people, one of them being the situation imogenblack referred to when she and a friend of hers were referred to by name in comments that were, frankly, out of line. It was unfortunate and unfair to them and I think Imogen knows that I feel bad about it. Fortunately for me, she is intelligent and mature enough to realise that I can't control comments that are made by people who live on a different continent from me and doesn't seem to blame me for it.

    Frankly, I regret having deleted comments on one previous occasion, because it did end up making me look like a hypocrite. I'm not losing too much sleep over it, however, because I don't think there are too many people in this world who don't commit the occasional sin of hypocrisy. The only other times that I've deleted comments have been at the specific request of the person who'd made the comments.

    I'm going to have to break my personal policy of not addressing Bitethehand here and say that I'm pretty sure that most people who post on the Untrusted would, quite frankly, be happy to forget your very existence, if only you would let them. Honestly, BTH, if you will insist on continually and deliberately misquoting people and making spurious accusations about them, then you must expect them to dislike you. If you apologised to someone once in awhile, you might earn some respect. You are almost universally despised here because you try to fight dirty and then you try to play the victim card when you're called on your tactics. If you're going to engage in fuckwittery, you will be called a fuckwit at some point in time. Call it Wildhack's Law of Posting.

    If you want people to stop bitching about you on the Untrusted, stop trying to smear people here on Cif. Stop misquoting things that people said five months ago to try to score cheap points. It makes you look worse than it does the person you're trying to smear.

    To others who have made supportive comments here: Thank you

  2. Succinct and to the point...

  3. Yes, although it's a pity that it will most likely make no difference at all to our ever-lurking obsessive.

  4. Wildhack's Law of Posting

    Works for me. Have a good day.

  5. Clear and concise but logic never was the strong point of some posters on CiF many of whom would rather have a good rant.

    Re the Blackpool Illuminations - got dragged there once in November by an aunt when I was sixteen and nearly froze to death. Haven't been back since.

  6. Er - why are our photos coming up? Not a criticism just wondering. I change mine constantly because I'm always fiddling about.

  7. Fine piece from Montana and also a dignified and measured response from imogen - life's too short to get involved in cyberbarney, and the comments directed at imogen have flown over my head thank goodness.

    A wise auld Scottish owl suggested that Holyrood was filling an unexpected barometer function for Westminster with regard to debate and legislation, and I wonder if the Untrusted blog is heading towards a similar relationship with Cif (in the eyes of the Cif overlords anyway - I suspect most posters like me are here for the banter).

    Your house trolls are going to have a field day with all this of course.

    Re Peg Enthwhistle, Dory based her beautiful 'Mary C Brown and the Holywood Sign' song on her suicide. I remember pre-internet days trying to find out about Peg, whom I assumed was an exploited ingenue like Dory Previn's Mary. In fact she was a respected Ibsen actress, and she inspired Bette Davis to take up acting. Poor lass.

  8. Fine piece from Montana and also a dignified and measured response from imogen""

    agreed on both counts,,i thought Imogens attitude was a great example for all posters

    Walt Whitman on hypocrisy "Very well then,,I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes""

  9. Like the photos. Have got spare meekats if anybody wants one.

  10. Very well said, Montana. Except... I don't think of it as hypocrisy but a moment of inconsistency. Is anyone free of that little peccadillo?

  11. "Jimi Hendrix was found dead in a Notting Hill hotel in 1970"

    Damn I used to love that guy's guitar playing.

    He's still a giant of twentieth century music.

  12. Ooh, icons!

    Yet another reason why Untrusted continues to be superior to Cif (I don’t need to list the others, do I?)

    Was it you who enabled them, Montana, or is it something that google have done? Either way, it’s great.

    The only problem is that my icon, which began life as the 12” cover of a vinyl album, becomes an indecipherable black and white blob when reduced to a 2cm square.

    Guess I’ll have to come up with a new one...

  13. @BW:

    Wha? Hendrix is dead? I could have sworn he was telling me to "move over Rover, let Jimi take over" only this very morning.

    I like the new icons - could be lots of fun in the offing with them, though I'll stick with "Oo err Matron" Hattie just at the minute I reckon...

  14. The ADDICTION to "sound superior to those" of many in here...is so evident,that..nobody notice it.
    Idiots using other peoples nics..are obvious idiots...some "obsessed" with hierarchy ranking" in a blog...well..seems only idiots to those able to see the absurdity in it!

  15. @tys:

    I thought you mentioned yesterday you weren't coming back? Just saying... I for one am delighted to see you've thought better of it. The more voices here the better, as far as I'm concerned.

    But one thing bothers me - why do you come here? Is it just to make us sad?

    I'm so sorry, if that's the case.

  16. How does one get an icon?

  17. @Dot:

    Update your "Blogger" profile.

  18. Cool!

    Guess I’ll be listening to the Velvet Underground for the rest of the day now, or at least for as long as I’m Waiting For The Man

  19. to make you "sad"?...I find the perversion of reality "sadening"...

  20. Time for a song ....

    The Rude Song from Snuff Box

    Not safe for work but remarkably catchy.

  21. @andy:

    Top stuff. My fave VU album, that banana one. After "The Best Of...", obviously.

  22. @tys:

    ...I find the perversion of reality "sadening"...

    That's a shame.

  23. Gnomic or incoherent? You be the judge.

  24. i do not say it!who uis using my name??..you see youselfs "superior" but you do not see you are "inferior"!..a fool play silly games and thinks he clever but he remain a fool..think of it fool..tys

  25. @colin:

    Who's to say? But that's me told, obviously.

    I just don't get it, why someone would want to keep coming back here if they thought it was a fool's paradise or something?

    Gah, this internet's cra-a-azy, man.

  26. Oh FFS, Anonymous. That is the oldest whinge in the world.

    You think you're superior to me

    No, you think we think we're superior to you. We don't think that at all. These are your own feelings of inferiority at work here, it's called 'transference'.

    Now stop feeling sorry for yourself and get a grip.

  27. @LordS:

    I'll hazard a guess here, that "tys" will come back and blame an "imposter" again. Seems to be a pattern emerging...

  28. Swifty,
    Didn't mean you. Sorry if I gave that impression.

  29. Here's a very radical suggestion which nevertheless worked for me. If I visit a blog that I find I don't particularly like or that doesn't really interest me, I don't bother posting my anonymous outrage and/or criticism and I don't bother reading it any more. In short, I just fuck right off. And then I'm not 'sad' anymore - I'm happy! :0)

  30. Swifty/LordS

    Of course it would all be solved if tys got a blogger profile........


    You don't have to tell them your real details: I didn't!

  31. elementary_watson18 September, 2009 12:08

    SwiftyBoy: Why do you presume it was tys who posted it? There was no name given. On, the other hand, who's to say that it was tys who afterwards wrote that it was someone else who used her/his name?

    Identity in the internet is a tricky thing.

  32. Dotterel,
    Move with the times pops, get a picture icon like us cool kids have.

  33. elementary_watson18 September, 2009 12:11

    @scherfig: But then again, where do you get to enjoy the pleasures of voicing your moral outrage?

    Ignoring blogs you dislike, where's the fun in that?

  34. watson, I find that the most satisfying way to voice my moral outrage is simply to howl at the moon. Tried and tested, mate - never fails.

  35. @elementary:

    Well, I was just going by a cursory reading of the style..but you are correct...who know who post such stuff?...internet "reality" is not the real reality...a tree fall in the forest,who hear it?...

    Shit, if I can do it, anyone could have a crack at being tys as well, if there was any point in so doing. Which there probably isn't, to be honest.

  36. so...you guys are not violent right now?

  37. I see my paradoxes far more...than you yours..obviously!

  38. Why bother posting somewhere you hate?

    Firstly why would people here think they are superior? I don't get that. Secondly many people on here do not share the same views as one another - it is not some sort of home for those who just sit around nodding in agreement with each other.
    Thirdly they seem a pretty good bunch to me who are willing to make everyone welcome and I say that as a newcomer myself to these pages.

    In fact it seems that the only thing that will not be stood for is nasty abuse of other posters which seems fair enough. I do not get your anger. I think LordS is probably correct and you are doing some transferrence here.

    If you don't like the place you don't have to visit it.
    Respectfully, PrincesCC (cant seem to log in at mo).

  39. Stoat

    Oh the irony of you calling me "pops"!

    Nevertheless, what about this?: at least it's consistent with my username ;-)

  40. Whereas those two posts above definitely don't read like the authentic voice of "tys".

    Unless it's another anonymous poster who coincidentally uses two dots and the ellipsis where others might use more regular punctuation, of course. Who's to say, eh?

  41. Now that I’ve got the really important bit out of the way, I want to agree 100% with what Montana says above about her not being to blame for comments anyone else makes on this blog.

    I’m fully responsible for any comments I’ve made here, and if there’s any “blame” to be attached to any of them, I’m quite happy to shoulder it.

    I’m also happy to respond to any criticism anyone may have of any of my comments, to attempt to explain any misunderstandings, to apologise if I consider it appropriate, and in exceptional cases to remove comments which have caused offence.

    I suspect I’ve done the latter on two or three occasions during the time I’ve been posting here, including when imogen’s friend was rightly upset by something which began as a joke, but which went too far.


    Thanks again for setting this place up, and for continuing to keep it running.

    It means a lot to me that we have a community of grown-ups who are prepared to act responsibly and negotiate the misunderstandings and hurt feelings that free speech and open expression sometimes (occasionally) lead to.

  42. What andysays said...

    (say that 5 times fast..)

  43. Hmm, well maybe. Let's not get into the "self-flagellation overdrive" bit just yet, just because a poster on another part of the internet doesn't like what goes on here.

    Goes back to a lot of the discussion around here back at the beginning of the "Project" really. We define what goes on here, and its tone is defined by us as we go along, not somebody who doesn't take part in it, surely?

    I agree with Montana and Kiz that we should be reasonable, welcoming etc. but I'd rather we all thought that because we were reasonable and welcoming people, and not because someone somewhere else who doesn't take part in the Untrusted didn't like this place and was essentially delivering some kind of Hammurabi code on how to behave on this bit of the internet.

    Hope that makes sense and isn't offensive to anyone, obviously...

  44. Dotterel,
    Yes I am looking at your bird.

  45. stoat,

    That's not my bird, that's me ;-)

  46. Dot: thanks for that.

    Like the icon, BTW.


    I for one am not suggesting any self-flagellation, just that we can and should take responsibilty for our own comments.

    Anyway, that’s enough of navel gazing, at least as far as I’m concerned.

    Anything worth reading on Cif today?

  47. @colin:

    Yes I am looking at your bird

    Well you jolly well shouldn't be, you should be looking at Matron, you naughty little man.

  48. I seem to have missed quite a bit. When did Bella and J come over and what was said? And when did this site get a makeover with the little pics etc? What on earth has gone on here! And which newcomers have been badly treated (allegedly) to provoke the current debate? Anyone?

  49. @Jay:

    I'll drop you a line mate if you want the full SP from start to finish.

  50. Jay - Montana wrote a superb piece on 9/11 (or 11/9) which Bella and Jessica put on the Best of the Web.

    I've not seen the pics before today.

    Dunno which newcomers were badly treated - hope I wasn't around that day!

  51. * I seem to have missed quite a bit. When did Bella and J come over and what was said? And when did this site get a makeover with the little pics etc? What on earth has gone on here! And which newcomers have been badly treated (allegedly) to provoke the current debate? Anyone?*

    Fuck off Reilly, we’re not going through all that again.

    Bloody newcomers getting in uninvited and expecting us to explain everything to them...

    (welcome back Jay!)

  52. elementary_watson18 September, 2009 13:10

    @Jay: The eleven users who posted at tys (the original tys excepted) made the real tys feel unwelcome.

    BTW, any new furniture destroyed?

  53. SwiftyBoy, all
    My hope remains that this place is defined by everyone who passes through, whether they stay a day, week, year, and post only once or thirty times a day.

    The unifying theme was originally disatisfaction with how CiF has operated, in its editorial policy, or how it runs its membership (moderation).

    Naturally, the sheer volume of interraction with CiF has generated some passing interest, visits out of curiosity, and there has also been the extending of some pretty hefty arguments/disputes off CiF and onto UT.

    Some posts are rivetting, and some are impenetrable, some are interesting, some just flip or silly (yes, really !), but there is no law that says anyone has to engage with other commenters here. As such it’s still a free for all, and I suggest it’s left down to individuals to choose when to set out their own store or “unengage”.

    Naturally there’s a few stayers here who get on among each-other here and on CiF (at least the ones not banned there). I would imagine the banter here might occasionally be viewed as cliquey to anyone not familiar here; this brings its own problems, but is as unavodiable any other area where people interact.

    I have no problem being courteous enough to anyone taking the trouble to rock up here, even if I think they’re a prick on CIF.

    The reason is because my underlying dislike of CiF is its deliberately controversialist, confrontationalist bent, that buries analysis in favour of hits.

    I bet I’d get more mileage out of a chat here with a few posters, who on CiF are immediately on the defensive/offensive, and me likewise.

    That’s the flexibility built into this place; along with its daft, fun little “renegade” cache, the underlying serious motive is better dialogue; so I’d have thought giving someone room to hang out is fundamental. If they then choose to abuse that basic criteria, fuck em.

    But sporting chances should be a given.

    - Bitterweed’s Third Law of Being Nice
    [ The first and second are under review ]

  54. Andy - The shoe-thrower has a bloody good article.

  55. For the old and confused and those who just generally haven't been paying attention, does tys actually stand for anything?

    The Yellow Snow perhaps?

  56. @elementary:

    And don't forget all those who were posting as "Anon6/Anon 6/A.N Anon/Anonymous/The real anonymous/The real Anon 6" as well.

    That wasn't very nice, either.

  57. Swifty - would be very welcome, good sire.

    Andy - outrageous slander. This is just the sort of malice that has prevented Ultima pouring her heart out over here, im certain of it.

    Furniture all in tact, my dear Watson. Though I havent had the customary post-holiday visit from her yet, so dont want to speak too soon.

    And whats this Thaum speaks of, a UT thread on Best of the Web? Was it an intro to a daily chat, and if so which date? The 11th I suppose, silly question... I shall have a look. Seems a strange move from CiF. If they are looking for more stuff from us I'd happily work something up on MacShane. Four letters should suffice.

  58. Bitterweed: Agree 100%.

    I’ve had a go at a few people (two I can remember) here, but only when (in my opinion) their behaviour here has warranted it.

    And as I said above, I’m prepared to discuss specific instances with and justify my actions to anyone.

    thauma: I noticed that but hadn’t read it yet.

    I’ll have to check it out.

    LordS: tys was thinkyourself on Cif.

    When they first arrived, they were talking about how they’d just been banned.

  59. Four letters should suffice.

    Steady on, Jay. we don't like to use the 'Joan' word around here. You'll offend an anonymous drive-by, and then you'll have to issue a grovelling apology. I would have thought you'd learnt your lesson by now.

  60. Morning (well, afternoon for most of you) all! Quick pop in before work (I seem to be getting up earlier than absolutely necessary these days...).

    I wish I could take credit for the appearance of the photos, but it was as much a surprise to me as anyone else. I guess I'll need to change mine. Poor Valerie Perrine doesn't need to take the blame for anything I said.

  61. Hi Jay

    See you got a rousing welcome back from CiF ...this commented has been deleted.....
    before you managed to get a foot through the door.

    Aah I bet you were lying on a sun-drenched beach, sipping cocktails, just wishing you could get back to CiF so they could tell you to naff off before you'd even unpacked.

    Welcome back by the way.

  62. elementary_watson18 September, 2009 13:42

    I think I should be more thorough when searching for interesting stuff on the guardian. Like the sushi thread I pretty much missed. And just now, I found a thread from last friday about a man addicted to prostitutes with a sensible (no kidding) comment by ultimathule(!)

    That comment stated among other things about conventionally thinking men: 'They would scream: "What the hell are you wearing!" if she put on something adventurous."

    And I missed the opportunity to claim that my girlfriend always screams the same whenever *I* do this, damn it!

  63. Sometimes 'Jo*n' is the only word suitable, scherf, however much i hate being so uncouth and vulgar...

    It was charming, Bru, I agree, they're a soppy bunch these mods, constant hugs and games...

    No beaches im afraid, just lots of Parissian food, galleries and churches, was brilliant, fantastic city. The continent is so much nicer than the UK its a little grim coming home though. At least theres been a lot of CIF/UT action to read over though.

  64. I found a thread from last friday about a man addicted to prostitutes

    Interesting. Got a link? A little while ago one of the Guardian staff was saying how they'd never host such a thread and I suggested it might be interesting if they did.

    Typically, I missed it. Just as I always manage to do when they publish something I'd earlier expressed an interest in.

  65. elementary_watson18 September, 2009 14:00

    Lords: Here it is.

  66. Probably just me, but I reckon the Graun "buries" the more contentious, non-right on stuff like that, unless I just haven't been paying attention.

  67. Cheers, Watson.

    Not quite what I was expecting though, it's the Agony column rather than CiF, but good lord above if Ultima doesn't come across as human and compassionate there. Good for her!

    I still think CiF should blog someone who is shameless in their use of prostitutes. They should do so in the interests of balance for a start, but I think once the first ten pages of deletions have passed there'd be a distinct possibility that we'd all learn something. By all I mean everyone, not just the radfems.

    Fat chance of it happening though.

  68. elementary_watson18 September, 2009 14:17

    I only found it because of this comment by BREEZE in the sushi thread, whom I didn't recognize and so took a look at his profile.

    Maybe it would be worthwhile to regularly check the threads where the more colorful commenters comment, *they* know where the good stuff is.

  69. This comment has been removed by the author.

  70. Though having just read it, I see I've made the usual mistake of "assuming" before "reading".

  71. If you're going to engage in fuckwittery, you will be called a fuckwit at some point in time. Call it Wildhack's Law of Posting.

    I like it. A veritable competitor to John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory - http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19


  72. elementary_watson18 September, 2009 14:26

    Phazer: I complain against the linked picture as it assumes the normal person to be male, rendering women not normal, i.e. othering them.

    Stop misogyny! NOW!

  73. 'I still think CiF should blog someone who is shameless in their use of prostitutes.'

    Maybe, but the customer would have to be a woman of course.

  74. hi chaps,

    just read the first comments on this thread and the one before it - posted by the webmistress - so, no disparity there then?

    post one: oooh let's be nice. post two: fuck off you cretins.

    hmmm, so situation normal, no problems

    'kin hell

  75. @LordS:

    Your favourite squeeze is on Sky News at the moment, being interviewed by Kay "Slugger" Burley, alongside Chaka Khan (I think) and another woman who I don't recognise. In case you're near a telly.

  76. That'll be Anastacia, Swifty ... but I don't get Sky News so it's all academic.

    Guess I'll just have to settle for Angela Lansbury* in Murder She Wrote instead.


  77. Correct, parallax, no problems here. Shame, eh?

  78. elementary_watson18 September, 2009 14:46

    "So, you say you want to be nice?"

    posed the troll.

    "I can make you lose your temper,"

    chuckled the cynic.

    "Oh, fuck off, you're boringly annoying,"

    yawned the Untrusted.

    parallax: Noone who comes here is considered a cretin until he or she posts something someone thinks cretin-y. Not posting anonymously, however, goes a long way for winning the hearts here.

  79. Hi Phazer, welcome to Untrusted.

    Like the icon, and don’t worry about elementary’s comment.

    There’s no rule that our icon has to be an accurate representation, ellie.

    I don’t look like a banana, and I doubt Swifty looks like Hattie Jacques in her younger days, although I suppose that’s always a possibility...

  80. elementary_watson18 September, 2009 14:56

    andysays, I was referring to the picture illustrating John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory, and jokingly imitating weirdfem rhetoric.

  81. elementary_watson18 September, 2009 14:57

    PS: "I don't look like a banana"

    Now *there* you shattered a delusion I was under!

  82. "I only found it because of this comment by BREEZE in the sushi thread, whom I didn't recognize and so took a look at his profile."

    You dont know BREEZE? He/she is a pretty global star in the world of Buzzword Batsman, I have always held her as having a bit of the Tendulkar in her, there is a cheeky class to her strokeplay that is unmatched, IMHO...

  83. Don't worry Elementary, I got it :-)

    Thanks andysays.

  84. elementary_watsonion says: (hang on - I can't cut'n'paste from this site so I'll have to retype)

    'Noone who comes here is considered a cretin .... etc ( can't be arsed typing it out, read the full text above ^^)

    which means what? Are you trying to have a conversation with me? SPELL IT OUT - sheesh

  85. @andy:

    Actually, I do look a little bit like Hattie Jacques, from a certain angle.

    Underrated these days, Hat. Interesting woman as well - as was onetime hubbie and all-round "good egg" Uncle Arthur. They had their share of troubles...

  86. @Jay:

    BREEZE certainly showed a good deal of swagger and the offensive spirit, I seem to remember one of her first innings on CiF, she really smacked it to all points of the compass in that one.

    Not as cultured as the Little Master but boy, when she hit it, it stayed hit.

  87. elementary_watson18 September, 2009 15:12

    Phazer: Yeah, but I just wanted to make sure a banana didn't think badly of me.

    parallax: We (most of us) are nice to newcomers, as long as they do not anonymously wallow in non-sequiturs or state their opposition to the way this blog is run (i.e. by the inmates). So there's no disparity in those posts, none at all.

  88. Swifty - I remember an HJ interview where she said she kept her weight constant by eating oranges - that is masticating them but not swallowing - and then spitting the mangled juice-sucked bulk into a waste paper basket that she kept by the sofa. Bizzare

  89. element - no idea what you're are on about son - are you newcomer 'round here?

  90. elementary_watson18 September, 2009 15:24

    Not a newcomer, but a little perplexed/confused/feeling somewhere between misunderstanding and bein misunderstood.

    Probably it would be best to switch the subject :-)

  91. @parallax:

    Stop trying to get a rise out of elementary_watson, you have the advantage over him, as you well know.

    Re. HJ, I've just been watching her "this is your life" on YouTube. Rather bizarre, and all very Mr Cholmondley-Warner.

  92. Swifty, my favourite Hattie Jacques/John Le Mesurier related story is that towards the end of their marriage when she was having an affair and divorcing him, Le Mesurier (being the epitome of the gentleman) insisted in announcing that it was he who was having the affair so she wouldn't get any bad publicity from the newspapers.

    If there were a school for gentlemen, its patron saint would have to be John Le Mesurier.

  93. elementary_watson18 September, 2009 15:36

    Swifty: That was not *exactly* the defence I was hoping for. Not that I was hoping for any defence at all.

  94. @LordS:

    Yes, that is precisely my definition of a "good egg".

    He clearly didn't go to the School for Scoundrels (even though he was in it).

  95. LordS, he didn't even seem to mind Tony Hancock running off with his third wife, Joan. Is that gentlemanly or just stupid?

  96. @elementary:

    Yeah sorry, I just meant parallax has been around here for a long time (long story), and that you may not have been aware of it (hence, he has the advantage over you because he knows something you don't. Or something).

  97. I remember it well, Swifty, it was the first time i saw her, a debut innings possibly. It had real gusto, really bold stuff, little footwork and even less grace but simply stood there and clattered it to all corners, almost an imperial whiff of condescension to it, dismissive, brooding, magnificent stuff...

  98. elementary_watson18 September, 2009 15:43

    Swifty, no need to apologise, I got quite a grin out of it :-)

  99. LordS, he didn't even seem to mind Tony Hancock running off with his third wife, Joan. Is that gentlemanly or just stupid?

    Either of those. It could also be so laid back as to be practically horizontal, or so confident (she'll be back) as to be prescient.

  100. LordS

    John Le Mesurier always reminds me of my father - not so much his looks but that lovely old gentlemanliness he had.

    I can't watch re-runs of Dads Army without wanting to burst into tears these days and wish I'd been a more considerate daughter. He forgave me everything. Unlike my Ma, who is a witch.

  101. Sorry to hear that, sheff.

    But I'm sure your dad wouldn't have wanted you to be any different.

    I love Dad's Army. Over the years I've developed lounging into an art form but there are few better lounges in my repertoire than the "Watching Every Series Of Dad's Army Back To Back" lounge.

  102. Jay

    Ah yes Paris - I must be due a visit there soon.

    We won't ask what you got up to but when I was a student they put all us girls (on a student trip) into some dosshouse of a hotel near the red-light district. Whenever we showed our noses (or rather our legs in hotpants) a zillion Parisian men would descend on us and we'd have to make a run for it.

    Ever since it's always been hotels in the posh areas for me.

    Life is less fun though.


  103. @jay:

    We could certainly do with someone just like her in the current anaemic England one day side. Unafraid of the quicks or the wily spinner, absolute belief in her ability to dispatch anything on, or off, a length, no time for the corridor of uncertainty, in her eyes God handed her the willow for one reason - to knock the pill about until the leather falls off it.

    She's just the sort of slugger we could do with in the upcoming ICC Champs Trophy.

  104. I have to remember, I talk partly with kids with pre frontal depressed damage from too much ecstasy and with the short span attention of amphetamines and the wanna sound cool talking crap attitude of cocaine over impacting the gratification centre...I tend to forget such actual life facts biasing communication drastically.

    I cant burden too much complexity reflection on some...

    the KICK is the goal...!
    The later impact don't matter!

    REAL interaction requires THE WILL of BOTH to truly interact...and the ability to do so.

  105. Parisian men swarming over young girls in hotpants? Not an entirely unpredictable reaction, Bru, I must say.

    Indeed Swifty, she has a Trescothick'esque bluntness which would come in very handy these days. A no nonsense thrasher.

  106. I missed Montana's piece on 9/11 when I was on hols - can anyone point me to it?

  107. Too much coke up on the Westcliff.

  108. @jay:

    She reminds me of Andrew Symonds. Just brutal with a bat (or a bottle) in his hand...

  109. I think this was it ...

    Montana's 9/11

    Basically it was the header on the daily chat for that day. I think the Guardian just linked to that 'cos Montana was asleep so couldn't give permission for them to lift it and put it directly into CiF

  110. SwiftyBoy said...


    Well, I was just going by a cursory reading of the style..but you are correct...who know who post such stuff?...internet "reality" is not the real reality...a tree fall in the forest,who hear it?...

    Shit, if I can do it, anyone could have a crack at being tys as well, if there was any point in so doing. Which there probably isn't, to be honest."

    No you cant. You neither have the wit nor the wisdom nor the gentility... tys has class you dont... which makes you and the others mere wannabes... it is really easy to see the difference.
    You talk AS IF you know something. It's just the lizard part of your brain making twittering bird flocking noises. All packaging and no content.
    If you want to be a writer you first have to have the intelligence to understand that story telling is the root of good writing not tweet! tweet!

  111. Anonymous,

    I beg to differ: Swifty can tell one hell of a story when he wants to!

  112. @Anonymous:

    All packaging and no content.

    True, true, I am very shallow.

  113. elementary:

    *I was referring to the picture illustrating John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory*

    Sorry, missed that point. Now I’ve followed the link I see what you mean.

    *and jokingly imitating weirdfem rhetoric*

    Got that straight away, although I suspect many of those you describe as “weirdfem” might prefer that a cartoon suggesting that normal people turn into fuckwads when posting on the internet depicted them as male.

    Can I also deplore the tendency, continued in that cartoon, not to distinguish between anonymous and pseudonymous.

    Those of us who have taken the trouble to create a google account and perhaps even choose an icon to represent us are not anonymous, though that doesn’t, of itself, prevent us being fuckwads.

    Anyway, my attention span is shot to hell from constant amphetamine abuse, so lets move on to some more mindless abuse of Cif or something.

  114. Boyishly handsome Rhodes sports-scholarship Professor Swifty-Boye fixed the anonymous poster with a gaze that had often reduced his students at Cambford University, Slough to a state of terrified but admiring silence.
    'I am indeed shallow', he said quietly in his customary warm dulcet tone. 'But, you my learned friend, are a mere fuckwit.'

  115. Beg all you like I have read the vitriol and shallow mud masquerading as intellect and it is shite.

    As for forming a net identity. If you rip someone else off regarding identity or steal their material the Berne Convention covers that.
    It is written it is all traceable and numbered and nothing is lost from the internet regardless of what the info experts will tell. The Queens first e-mail is still in the system.
    Everything is copyright and everything is traceable on the internet.

  116. Rubbish.


    Al Magrahi (sp?) has put his appeal docs (or some of them) online. Anyone had a chance for a look & opinion yet? I'm going to read them now...

  117. Anonymous,

    You've read everything Swifty's ever written?

    You're either:

    A) A stalker

    B) Talking buzzcocks


    C) Swifty himself havin a laugh

    Unless it's C lighten up!

  118. @ Sheffpixe

    I couldn’t get on line on the 15th when you were having a conversation with Edwin/Andy/BB about Lesley Boulton so I’m a bit late to that conversation - but I did want to say:

    If I understood the conversation correctly then you and she are skin sisters so to speak!

    What a delight and what a great pleasure it was to read, from the BBC link, that the pig’s cosh missed the iconic lady - albeit by a breath.

    Like many, I often wondered who the girl was and what happened to her later. I was thus delighted to see Andy nominating her as a person of substance and presence. I always had her down as a stylish lass and one with bottle.

    It was great to see that she went on to be a stylish grandma. Next time you two speak you can tell her that she has a secret admirer here!.

    I must say that I always thought that Scargill should have struck a medal in her honour. I know that when a photocopy of the photo was stuck on the collecting bucket during the dispute we always got more money in it to support the lads who were on strike.

    That famed photograph also helped to politicise many folk in due course it helped them understand what life post Thatcher was likely to be like.

    Since you were so close to said lass I’ll have to forgive you for not bringing me some cheese back from France.

    Regards Deano.

  119. deano:

    sheff is Lesley Boulton

    Lesley is sheffpixie

    Not sure how you’ve missed that, TBH. Are you new here or something?

    If so, welcome to Untrusted, deano30 ;-)

  120. Andy - I have to ask. Why a banana my friend?

    Is it another record sleeve? The Pics are so small that I can't always make them out.

    Bru's latest picture appeared at first sight to be an image of miss piggy - but I thought that can't be right and then I saw it was some sort of portrayal of a necklace.

    Faberge Bru?

  121. Cheers Andy

    I had sort of guessed ("skin sisters" etc) from the conversation on the 15th but I did not wish to appear presumptious.

    I must have missed the thread when it was announced/emerged - it could have been a bad cloud day.

    I may not be the gent that John Le Mesurier, or he dad, was but I do try to be polite and unassuming else Stoaty will be in to take the advantage.

  122. deano:

    The picture I had before was the cover of the Velvet Underground’s third album, which includes the song Candysays.

    The new pic is the cover of their first album, painted by Andy Warhol.

    Andy Warhol Banana

    On the original copies, the banana was some sort of peel-off sticker which when removed revealed a rather phallic pink inside.

    Andy Warhol Banana, Peeled

    Don’t try to peel mine...

  123. Another day breaks with a missive from on high. Another release of phermones from the queen of the non cabal and all the little drones all go woozy with delight.

    "You're quite right your maj. Nothing that goes on here is ever wrong. We're the nice well balanced ones."

    "Good drones. Play nice. Be welcoming. Bring me more drones. Our cabal is good. Soon we can be a huge cult and I can preach from a gilded pulpit just like Queen Seaton. For I am Montana. Queen of rational debate and courtesy and I shall rebuild CIF right here in Jerusalem. And mine enemies I shall smite with my righteous sword of civility."

    Why am I getting Deja vu, again? Could it be that the wheel has turned full circle?

    Excuse my impoliteness in supposing you are all anything but fully self aware. I'm sure you know that I'm talking broken biscuits. How could any of this possibly apply to you?

    Did I mention my devotion to an erstwhile compatriot? A staunch fellow much given to rooting out conceit.

    "Oh wad some power the giftie gie us
    To see ourselves as ithers see us!
    It wad frae monie a blunder free us,
    An' foolish notion:
    What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us
    An' ev'n devotion!"

    See us? Us? There's no US. We ARE NOT a clique


  124. Yea - I saw the Warhol signature when I went to your profile and magnified the picture!

    I see we also lost R. (rexmundi?) yesterday.

    Glad to see 3Pot4 called back today (a poster from Canada via London/Tottenham?? if my memory rings true)

  125. *I may not be the gent that John Le Mesurier was*

    I don’t know deano, I reckon you would have made a great Sergeant Wilson :-)

    The question is, who would play Mainwaring...

  126. It would have to be Swifty.

    Despite his secret desire for ladies in starched aprons I understand that he has many years experience with a swagger stick.

    I can't think of anyone else who could carry one without tripping up over it. Hank/Monkey would be arrested for carrying an offensive weapon before they even got to the rehearsals.

    Perhaps Jay - who are you agent for?

  127. Very interesting, McAnon. I hope you feel better now that you've got that rant off your chest. It must have taken you ages to think all that up and type it all out and post it. Why bother? It seems to show that this place that you despise actually serves a purpose for you. Therapeutic, maybe. Isn't that odd? What would you do without it, I wonder?

  128. andy
    The question is, who would play Mainwaring...
    Might BTH suit the role - lots of pompous wittering and flapping.

  129. scherf

    Could we charge a fee for services rendered to neurotic posters? I suppose it would mean we'd actually have to read them.

  130. Sheff, I don't actually read them. What would be the point of that?

  131. "Might BTH suit the role - lots of pompous wittering and flapping."
    But Mainwairing is deep down a fundamentally decent chap. And that bit in the film where all those bumbler man the roadblock, and Mainwairing goes through what happens to the one shotgun if he's killed always brings a tear to my eye.
    Can't imagine the Grand Inquisitor doing that.

  132. Fencewalker didn't say that honest BTH18 September, 2009 18:56

    God now I've commented on him here, he'll be establishing a separate dossier for me in Row 3 column 6 of the CiF Files Room.

  133. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntZ50fEe3Eo

    One for bitterweed. Trucks again, im going to have his babies one day.

  134. Correct, fencewalker, underneath all the bluster and snobbery, Mainwaring was basically sound. The only thing he was afraid of was his wife, who would often ring up and make him bring the shopping home.

  135. @ Fencewalker

    I suspect your file has already been opened.

    Giving words of support to Montana/UT will I imagine have been quite sufficient.

  136. Thing is, I don't normally see him on threads (I rarely go to the feminism ones) - I knew of him more by reputation. But when you see him on Whaddya he just exceeds everything you hear.

  137. "What would you do without it I wonder?"

    Scoot around looking for other examples of the duplicitous diplomatic scheming perfected by the English Tyrant in his subjugation of the Caledonian peasantry before turning his attention to the rest of the planet. In controlling any rebel movement he allows the insurgents their moment of glory. A day or two in the sun.

    He bides his time until they feel they have made their point then he simply calls upon the local chieftain with gifts and flattery. Tells him what a glorious fellow he is. Invites him to court where the nobility pour adulation on the noble savage.

    Next comes the good bit. He can still be in charge and lay down the law in his little fiefdom but there are conditions. Not all of his tribe are welcome. They have not proved themselves sufficiently civilised. They must take to the hills or suffer the gallows. The rest can come back into the meadow and graze like good little sheep. And we all live happily ever after and not a drop of English blood is spilled. And the cost? The tiniest bit of flattery.

    I'm a student of highland history (not the Mel Gibson revisionist version). The perfidy of Albion is a constant thread. But more heinous is the greater perfidy and betrayal of the highland chieftan, ever willing to sell his clansman down the river for a slap on the back and a couple of trinkets. All it ever took to restore the King's piece.

    It's a model they built an empire on. Divide and Rule functions equally well when the division is self initiated. It actually makes things easier for the tyrant. Everyone's happy. The tyrant gets his taxes and his due and the 'rebel' gets his mythology of struggle and his fiercesome reputation remains in tact. Even long after he's been banished from his homeland and packed off over the ocean to a semi-feudal existence.

    I'm romantically drawn to the hill dwelling outcasts. I rather despise the traitorous chieftain and pity the sheep. I'm not drawing any parallels here just yet. Just watch this space Mr Scherfig. It may only be a matter of time. Any strange visitors from the South passed this way with praise and trinkets?

    Anon of the Isles

  138. As the sun set a few minutes ago in London, now seems like the time to wish you all shanah tovah.

  139. Fencewalker/sherf

    You are quite right about Mainwaring - and I take it back - he certainly doesn't have that smallness of spirit that BTH displays

  140. Anyone interested in Rosh Hashanah might want to read what it says on wikipedia, though one paragraph in particular caught my eye.

    *The Mishnah, the core text of Judaism's oral Torah, contains the first known reference to Rosh Hashanah as the "day of judgment." In the Talmud tractate on Rosh Hashanah it states that three books of account are opened on Rosh Hashanah, wherein the fate of the wicked, the righteous, and those of an intermediate class are recorded. The names of the righteous are immediately inscribed in the book of life, and they are sealed "to live." The middle class are allowed a respite of ten days, until Yom Kippur, to repent and become righteous; the wicked are "blotted out of the book of the living."*

    So even 5770 years ago they were seen as a problem...

  141. Seems to be an element of jocularity creeping in.

  142. Deano

    I see I am finally unmasked, glad you managed to make a few quid for the cause out of the picture.

  143. Evening Untrusted ones.

    God I hate it when I am still working on a Friday at 7.45 at night! Just finished though.


    Will scroll back and see what exciting things I've missed today while you lot have all been skiving....


  144. stoaty
    Seems to be an element of jocularity creeping in.

    I can soon put a stop to that. I've just been sent an English version of Genet's "Four Hours in Chatila" with the contentious sentences put back in. Can email it to anyone interested.

  145. I saw John Le Mesurier once, and spoke to him. He lived in Ramsgate in the 80s and used to go into the local wine-bar in the summer, dressed immaculately in a white linen suit with a panama hat, and sit and drink his glass of wine and smoke a cigar.

    He was absolutely adorable.

  146. Sheff, just for you. A song often considered to be about Jean Genet. Except it wasn't. Actually about Iggy Pop, iirc.

  147. I have a white linen suit - I bought it for my daughters wedding 'bout five years ago (at her insistence and on the understanding that it would double up as a shroud).

    I also have a panama amongst many hats.

    If only I wasn't committed to growing old disgracefully...

  148. 'And the day before this day, on the 17/09/09, who said something to the following effect:

    'I have no problem with telling those who post anonymously to fuck off'

    and in the rubric......

    'We're here for community and fun, not shouting and name calling?'

    chuckled the laughing policeman

    'So different from the mud aeration you get elsewhere isn't it?'

    said the scarab beetle

  149. Is that the one that rolls the elephant turds uphill?

  150. I have cared during years for my mother who had Alzheimer ...quiet exhausting...but...humanly precious...compared to that experience,

    I question myself...how to handle those of you in such a need to sound permanently..."in power", as our human fragility/potential leads to other needs..I wonder what frightens you so much..that the usual co-mutual caring coordinates...gets degraded for the sake of posturing, and how a future might look like with people having to handle difficult issues...but acting out such vain escapism.
    what scares you that deep,to be simply a human amongst other humans?.

  151. Thauma

    Thanks for that - enjoyed it - whoever it was about - reminded me of my mispent youth

  152. Deano

    btw - sorry about the cheese - we ate it!

  153. 'Closing ranks when the wind blows stronger is a good survival strategy for penguins'

    said the jolly green activist dressed as a polar bear

    ''But the pettiquette of penguins in closing ranks on the 'outsiders' like anonymous (tys) and bilip illustrates just how far the presumed ''liberal'' consensus is now fragmenting?'

    posed the wise fool

    'and just what a disingenuously broad church the word 'liberal'' can convey'

  154. 3p4withoutphotoid18 September, 2009 20:35

    Glad to see 3Pot4 called back today (a poster from Canada via London/Tottenham?? if my memory rings true)

    mile end/leyton/south woodford Guv

    and vancouver

    Could we charge a fee for services rendered to neurotic posters?

    i am on disability,,i really cant afford it,,can i just mumble for free ?

  155. What's LEFT?

    'Beware of Geeks bearing cybergifts?'

    'So many of the authentic ''left'' posters (MFi/HSc - respect) had assumed their cherished house journal was really on their side'

    posed the cynic

    'but are they starting to suspect that things in the mother ship and perhaps others elsewhere in the un-sphere are not quite always what they seem.....?'

  156. It is!

    As wiki puts it:

    "As most species of Scarabaeinae feed exclusively on faeces, that subfamily is often dubbed true dung beetles"

  157. I doubt...we share a common ground of values!

    but we share a common planet...so...the question remains...how to handle uncertain souls trying hard to sound like the "clockwork orange" bunch,without agreeing with their fascist pet trainers.

  158. 'Visitations from the mother ship?

    'Now why does that happen?'

    posed the cynic

    'First Dr. evil and minimod, and then others steadily beamed down to be bearers of complements and gifts to the new world settlers...'


  159. Welcome back 3P4

    I'm always,, interested to read what you have to say. Sorry me memory is poor I knew you was london to canada.

    Regards deano.

  160. Oh FFS. If you don't like it here, why torture yourselves?

    And if you don't like the conversation, got any interesting alternatives to propose yourselves, other than bile?

    No, thought not.

  161. to observe the social autism who is unable to interact beside in tribal "superiority"noises...is at least,what´s left to observe.

    what a fear of listening to their heartbeats.

    what a fear to be touched...intimacy phobia acting out mutual avoiding back tapping.

  162. I still KNOW...they ARE humans!

  163. Heheh - growing old disgracefully always reminds me of this poem by Jenny Joseph, which I love, and which I take as my blueprint for old age:

    When I am an old woman, I shall wear purple

    with a red hat that doesn't go, and doesn't suit me.

    And I shall spend my pension on brandy and summer gloves

    and satin candles, and say we've no money for butter.

    I shall sit down on the pavement when I am tired

    and gobble up samples in shops and press alarm bells

    and run my stick along the public railings

    and make up for the sobriety of my youth.

    I shall go out in my slippers in the rain

    and pick the flowers in other people's gardens

    and learn to spit.

    You can wear terrible shirts and grow more fat

    and eat three pounds of sausages at a go

    or only bread and pickles for a week

    and hoard pens and pencils and beer nuts and things in boxes.

    But now we must have clothes that keep us dry

    and pay our rent and not swear in the street

    and set a good example for the children.

    We must have friends to dinner and read the papers.

    But maybe I ought to practice a little now?

    So people who know me are not too shocked and surprised

    When suddenly I am old, and start to wear purple.

  164. thanks Deanno,, you obviously missed all the posts where i might have right tool of meself,,

    (might)even if we all spoke with the same voice etc etc

    that was,,clever Deanno

  165. s/he is not who s/he says s/he is not.

    'And didn't an alien from the mothership apparently first post as an 'anonymous' too?'

    posed the cynic

    'now what was that all about?'


    'Now what was h** name again?'

    posed the bad speller

  166. 'On which webshite would a dung beetle post?'

    posed the bad speller

    'The dung dusted?'

    Only joking penguins.

  167. BB
    Apart from the stick, I'm there already!

    Groan...and stuck in on a Friday too!

  168. TYS

    Merci pour le psycho-analyse gratos. Cependent, je ne me reconnais pas dans ce que vous dites. Je ne me sens point superieure a qui que ce soit.

    Lachez-nous les baskets un peu, non? Si vous voulez participer a nos betises, nos rigolades, nos reflections politiques et sociaux, tant mieux. Ca me ferait plaisir.

    Si par contre vous etes la uniquement pour nous dire tout ce que vous - internaut comme tous les autres - percevez a partire de mots debiles dans un forum debile, c'est peut etre vous qui devez vous regarder un peu dans la glace.

    Ce n'est que l'internet! Faut rigoler un peu! C'est surtout pas a prendre au serieux.

    Bisous x

  169. Can I just mention that I am the most superior human ever to have been spawned and that I come here to mingle with only-slightly-lesser humans?

  170. Excellent, Sheff!

    Save me some brandy! :o)

  171. Fuck me - we are now talking of the behaviour patterns of Emperor Penguins.

    I was always much impressed with the way the male emperors carried the eggs on their toes. Class act that.

    But best of all I love the albatross winging the southern ocean - but I fucking hate the long-line fishing of tuna to save the dolphins.

    Dolphins I want saved but so too the albatross they breed for life and when one is drowned on the long line hook - the partner is often starved to death awaiting the return of the mate.

    If you have a spare shilling join the RSPB (more members than the Labour Party) and help save the albatross.

    It's, as so may things are, a matter of eduaction. Albatross scarers are easily and cheaply flown from the long line fishing boats of the southern ocean.

    A few bob to prevent a cruel and sad drowning of a wonderful exotic seabird.


  172. *bows to Lady Thaumaturge*

    "Yes, ma'am" (to rhyme with ham, if the Queen Mum is anything to go by)

  173. I wasn't aware about that concerning albatrosses, Deano. That's sad.

    I am a save the dolphin-er too. I have stopped eating tuna unless I can be absolutely sure of its source.

    I remember when I was a teenager in the 70s having a Greenpeace poster on my wall. It was predominantly black, with a picture of the world the size of a shilling in the middle of it, with the slogan "Here is the earth. Don't spend it all at once".

  174. Can U see the JOIN?

    'Good to find somewhere .....ironically born in the apparent revulsion to over-censure'

    posed the irony police

    'that is so warm, enabling and open-minded in its receipt of thoughts and opinions that lie outside the box'

  175. BB
    Je crois qu'il y a certaines personnes qui ne savent pas comment s'amuser.

    You're innate superiority goes without saying dear heart.

  176. BB - We are glad that thou dost acknowledge thy place. We are well pleased with thee and thou hast moved up an infinitessimal point in the world rankings set by Queen Montana who rulest all things.

    Deano - what's this about "dolphin-safe" tuna affecting albatrosses? There I was, thinking I was a good bleeding-heart lefty.... You can't bloody win, can you?

  177. Anonymous @ 20.25:

    The full quote is

    *And I have no problem with telling people who post anonymously to fuck off. Most of the people who post anonymously do so because they are specifically wanting to be wind-up merchants. No fucking patience with that whatsoever.*

    Seems like it could have been written just for you.

    None of us have any fucking patience with wind-up merchants, so don’t attempt to find and exacerbate division where none exists.

    That’s me out of here for tonight, everyone. Like the Bush Tetras said, Too Many Creeps

  178. Alstublieft! :o)

    I have to say that my mind is a bloody big box, "posed the cynic", and it takes a lot for someone to be so far outside of it that I start worrying...

    But some of your theories do make me worry about you. I keep picturing Mel Gibson in the film Conspiracy Theory and wonder if you live in a lead-lined flat with all kinds of gadgets to prevent "them" getting you.

    On the other hand, Mel Gibson's character was absolutely right to believe in conspiracies in that film......

    hehehehe. :o)

  179. But just before I go, 3p4:

    *“Could we charge a fee for services rendered to neurotic posters?”

    i am on disability,,i really cant afford it,,can i just mumble for free ?*

    I’m on Incapacity and Disability too, and I have a certificate which gives me free NHS prescriptions. As far as I’m concerned, you’ve got the cyber equivalent, and can contribute here whenever you want, free, gratis and for nothing.

  180. scrolling
    scrolling down the river
    loud dairy (air)(keeps on) scrolling down the river


  181. Lady Thauma

    I am most humbled.

    Sheff - yup!

  182. 3P4

    Perchance the transatlantic time diff must have meant that you missed me making a tit and half of myself - several and few times, the truth be known.

    But I have been tolerated by the many and, by and large(ish) forgiven for my OTT moments. I think it's called rightly ignored.

    I am 62 a northern uk person I give not a jot what anyone thinks of me but I would like to be loved by my family and those who I admire.

    The only folk I would not wish to upset here or anywhere ( save the kind ladies I have invited to take a seat in my boat - past, long past, thread) are those who I have found to be unquestionably honest:

    Quakers and old time members of the UK CP - My notes to my grandchildren will say - "these were reliable and decent people, had I not been a piss head I would have trusted my soul/thingy to them"

    To be a viking- would be existentialist- would be quaker, was a complex call grandchild.

    Double regards. deano

  183. andy
    the stories i hear about Inc&Dis in England make me cringe,,my experience in canada was almost fairy tale the way the 'civil servants' actually were civil helpful professional,,same could be said for most of my interactions with the medical profession

    i did have a proctologist who was an asshole,,

  184. Sheff/BB: je viens de chercher ma copie de La nausée mais elle ne se retrouve pas. Néanmoins, j'en suis sûr qu'elle me donnera la phrase parfaite.

    Je me contenterais par dire, l'enfer, c'est les autres.

    Ee by gum, it's a long time since I tried to write in French. Apols to anyone whose sensibilities I might have offended.

  185. AcerFansMutual Soc18 September, 2009 21:38

    thanks deanno,,

  186. Temper, temper.....

    'None of us have any patience with wind-up merchants so don't attempt to find and exacerbate division where none exists?'


    '....We've found it!!'

    said Percival


    'What? The Grail?'

    said Merlin


    'No.. not quite ... it's even better! ...the Holy Collective Keeper of the Universal Unamimous Voice!'

    said Percival

    'where identical comment is ...... free?'

  187. L'enfer, c'est les autres. Spot on!

    Have you read Huis Clos? I dunno what the translation would be in english. Bloody brilliant. Three people stuck in a room together who all dislike each other intensely, with disgusting 18th century furniture... no means of escape. Now that IS hell.

    I love the old chinese fable about the difference between heaven and hell, though.

    In hell, people have bowls of rice but with chop sticks 5ft long. They starve because they can't feed themselves.

    I heaven, people have bowls of rice but with chops sticks 5ft long. They are happy because they use their chop sticks to feed each other...

  188. 3p4

    Canada is an amazing place with amazing. My fella is a cannuck.

    The only thing that stops me moving there is that it starts to snow in November and there is still snow on the ground in April where he comes from.


  189. Re handysays

    'Not that some prominent elements of the Mothership don't seem to like 'anonymity' too?'

    posed the cynic

    'another parallel (universe)...funny that.............'

    ...time for penguins to rotate

    .... sleep well

    ... love to you all... including the Muds