26 November 2009

Daily Chat 26/11/09

James Cook became the first European to visit the island of Maui, in 1778.  While there, he soaked up some rays, caught some totally righteous waves and made it with a hot wahine.  Thomas Telford's Pontcysyllte Aqueduct was completed in 1805.  The heaviest rainfall ever recorded was at Basse Terre, Guadaloupe, in 1970, when 1.5 inches fell in one minute.  Last year, ten coordinated attacks in Mumbai killed 164 people and injured 250.

 Born today:  William Cowper (1731-1800), Eugène Ionesco (1909-1994), Cyril Cusack (1910-1993), Tina Turner (1939), John McVie (1945), Hilary Benn (1953) and Keith Vaz (1956).

In addition to being Thanksgiving Day here in the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave™, it is Independence Day in Mongolia.


  1. Philippa: Yes, sweet potatoes are, indeed, prepared with marshmallows on Thanksgiving. Unless British marshmallows have changed in the past 23 years, they're a bit different from American marshmallows. The only ones I ever encountered in Britain were pink and white, drier and not as soft as American marshmallows.

    Here is an excellent sweet potato recipe, sans marshmallows:

    3 sweet potatoes, peeled and quartered
    110 g firmly packed brown sugar
    2 g ground cinnamon
    3 g ground nutmeg
    2 large cooking apples - peeled, cored and cut into 1/4 inch rings

    30 g all-purpose flour
    55 g firmly packed brown sugar
    55 g butter
    30 g chopped pecans

    Place sweet potatoes in a large saucepan with enough water to cover. Bring to a boil and cook 25 minutes, or until tender but firm. Drain, cool and cut into 1/4 inch slices.
    Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C). Lightly grease a 7x11 inch baking dish.
    In a small bowl, mix brown sugar, cinnamon and nutmeg.
    Layer sweet potatoes, brown sugar mixture and apples in the prepared baking dish.
    In a medium bowl, mix flour, brown sugar, butter and pecans. Sprinkle over the sweet potatoes.
    Bake in the preheated oven 30 minutes, or until lightly browned.

  2. Morning all,

    going on from princesschipchops comments about the banking thread.

    The decision on bank charges is the cherry on top of the whole rotten edifice that refuses to collapse isn't it?

    1. MP's expenses- public outrage. MP's reaction- ''Keep calm and carry on''

    Result- swept under the carpet and business as usual.

    2. Banker inspired recession- public outrage. Banks and Govt reaction?
    ''Keep calm and carry on and give us billions.''

    Result- bailout swept under the carpet and business as usual, charges all round for us!!

    3. Calls for reform of the Parliamentary system and Democracy.
    Parliament's reaction?
    ''Keep calm and carry on''

    Result- business as usual, outdated system designed to replace one political elite with another.

    Why is this country so passive whilst being royally f*cked from our superiors time and time and time again?

    The Bank charge decision is the full stop on our elites favourite phrase in times of trouble:

    ''Keep calm and carry on.''

  3. Have a happy day Montana! That recipe sounds delish.

  4. Morning folks.

    The sweet potato thing sounds good!

    And Duke

    I'm completely naffed off with the banks & their blind greed. That Walker guy was on the Today programme, he really doesn't give a stuff about the little people who use the banks. On the big earners in banking, he says there's no need to identify individual's salaries - what the hell are they hiding from us?

  5. Your Grace

    Why did we ever think it would be any different? A crock of shit. Public outrage there may have been but not enough to make an iota of real difference. As per usual in this supine nation.

    Shall now stomp off to work in a rage.

  6. Have a good day, sheff - it's a sunny morning!

  7. Ooh, recipes! happy now - thank you montana!

    (just checking again - that's a desssrt, right?)

    (because I'm still not convinced by a yam/marshmallow side-dish as a side for a roast turkey. with or without maple syrup on top. clearly i have a deep-seated conservative streak when it come to food)

    Your grace - bang on. But I can't be alone in thinking that "keep calm and carry on" is pol-speak for "shit, we're all out of ideas"...

  8. Ah, yes, LordS has been disappeared from the Brooks' thread - not modded, just disappeared. As have, by my reckoning, several other posts at the end of the thread that were definitely there when I checked a little after midnight BST. It's like they just cut off the end of the thread...

  9. Meanwhile the public sector faces spending cuts.

    I haven't forgotten that one year, Sheffield community care services were forced to issue incontinence sufferers with maternity pads instead of incontinence ones, when they faced financial shortages under the Tories. It's pretty hard to go for press coverage for something like that, as it means demeaning the person who is receiving the service and who would do that?

  10. Philippa

    Lord Ss comment was still there an hour or so ago. We should have cut & pasted it over here, to preserve it for poster(ior)ity!

  11. So Bindel seems to have had a hand, once again, in trying to exonerate female murderers. Nice. She's only interested in equal rights for women, you know. The government certainly chose the right person for the Poppy Project.

    PCC - i dont have animals myself but have had family dogs and cats who I see when i go home for visits, not a fan of cats at all really but love dogs. My mum has a very soppy little staf who is sadly beginning to decline with old age, turning into a little old woman who never leaves the sofa, and we had a Schnauzer but he died a couple of years ago.

  12. In other news, Mandelson has been partying with the Rothschilds, at a party also attended by...

    Cherie Blair. Got to love our murderous global elite...

  13. Jay

    I see AllyF has raised the connection with JB on Waddya.

  14. BTW, Duke, our conspiracy theorist has just posted re: the bank charges.

  15. Jay,

    Got to love our murderous global elite...

    I feel so helpless, I've had to resort to using D.I.S.C.O by Ottawan to inspire the following paean:

    E.L.I.T.E, E.L.I.T.E (x3)

    They are E, Expensive,
    They are L, Lying bastards
    They are I, Indestructible
    They are T, Total dickheads
    They are Eeee,eeeelite.

    E.L.I.T.E, E.L.I.T.E (x3).......

    Everyone feel free to add more verses should you be inspired...

  16. MsChin,

    Either I'm losing it or GIYUS is bang on about the bank charges!

  17. I'm inclined to agree with you & our conspiracy friend there, Duke!

  18. Something like "how does it feel to be fucked in the arse by your own bloggers, Matt?"
    I wouldn't normally recommend that kind of thing, but it's the turn of phrase that raises it to elegance...

    heh heh

    your grace - brilliant. the gauntlet is down...

    They are E, 'Eriditary,
    They are L, Low-life wankers
    They are I, In complete hock
    They are T, To the bankers
    They are Eeee,eeeelite.

    Not as good but in my defence it kind of rhymes...

  19. I'm not getting into this on the thread but re: BTH, I would just like to say:


    Glad I got that out of my system.

  20. Friend of mine has just been made redundant from Sussex Uni, just got email from them reading:

    "Its a bit like what happened in the NHS at one point...a whole raft of very highly paid managers and academic HoDs were brought in on
    salaries of £100k - £250k and they planned a fancy reorganisation which was completely unnecessary and was very expensive involving almost everyone moving offices like musical chairs. Then HEFCE cut some of the funding and
    then the RAE did not go well so there was another funding cut. They have tried to plug the gap e.g. by recruiting Chinese students in particular but that has also involved extra expense with language tutors trying to help
    them understand basic english and convey to them that they should not be cutting and pasting from Wikipaedia which is what they assume they should be doing. Anyone who points out the corruption of the situation is persona
    non grata. History, Philosophy, English and Art History are not very profitable so they are cutting lecturers in those depts but leaving
    business studies and media studies alone as they bring in money."

    An inspiring glimpse into Higher education in Uk 2009... Bankers get billions in bonuses, Universities have to slash staff to cover the funding shortage caused by the bankers greed and government complicity...

  21. Damn it, that Seaton guy is really quite weaselly in his defence of Libby and outrage at the commenters for being so judgmental. The "larger context" of a woman killing her husband is about one woman per week being killed by her partner? What the fuck?

    Why doesn't he get moderated?

  22. Just looked up the Brooks piece to see what the fuss was about - oh dear. Kiz (who has become a Cif star) Ally and Marionmack said it all neatly and I liked this from the latter -

    'None of this makes sense. Other posters have attacked the article's morality, but its intellectual cogency is distressing lacking too.'

    I really don't care at all for the way Matt Seaton came in and sort of half-apologised and then when a few posters popped up to defend LB, he then jumped back in to sort of half-withdraw his sort of half-apology. Bit cowardly that.

    Also, while Comment is Free is much much better than any other newspaper forum, this is down to the quality of the posters who appreciate the extended field of play rather than the quality of the ATL pieces, of which there are an increasing number which seem to be designed to draw fire. I can't think of an LB piece in the past which resembles this one.

    Also again, the clanking of unseen link chains in the background of ATL posts, whether of family, professional or friend links, seems to be becoming a bit intrusive, as Ally has touched on in the thread.

  23. Jay - I'm again reffing 'House of Dust' on that one, where all subjects not having a direct commercial application are closed down, and all students wear advertising logos on their gowns...dystopian future or next year's HEFCE recommendation? You don't decide...

  24. Edwin,

    I can never make up my mind if the CiF editors are just naive or do have a hard line agenda when it comes to gender issues.

    The Brooks piece. The link to the lawyer, Bindel etc cannot be ignored. I cannot believe that Brooks was naive enough to accept everything that appears to have been fed to her, which makes me think that there is an agenda here.


    Higher education in Britain is following a two pronged route.

    The institutions whore themselves to the new economic power China- Come here to study, we've got Tradition! Really old buildings! Dreaming spires! and then stuff their courses with said students.

    Meanwhile, the Govt ensures that any potential student from a working class/lower middle/poor background has no chance of attending by imposing fees and loans.

    And of course, the first areas to feel the effects of downturn are the 'thinking and contemplating' courses- History, Philosophy etc.

    How can you make money from studying History and Philosophy they ask?

    Result- Higher education accessible only to the rich natives and the rich foreigners.

  25. Matt Seaton should stop reading Bindel, it has negative effects on his logical faculties (I presume he could not always have been so infuriatingly thick).

    Matt: "Since Andrews was put in an open prison, it was the correct thing to do."

    davidabsalom: "Since Andrews escaped, it probably wasn't."

    Matt: "So, you think we should abolish open prisons because some inmates escape?"

    So, to state that an organization is not always correct is the same wanting to abolish such an organization, and therefore (presumably morally) wrong? How authoritarian can one get?

  26. Philippa,

    meant to say. Great second verse!

  27. thank you, your grace, have actually managed to be creative ce matin (quite apart from disco), but have now made myself cry, so think I should give it a rest until i can re-read with something akin to an objective eye...

    am even now writing in character. Fie.

  28. Tom Cressman's cousin has posted a very dignified response on LBs piece, as westken @ 12.58pm.

  29. You know, the whole Libby Brooks-Jane Andrews debacle has left me feeling oddly heartened. When I first started posting on Cif (as Nicknack009) the consensus on gender matters below the line was pretty much the same as above the line, and it was a very lonely road taking any other position. I wouldn't attempt to claim credit for it - more eloquent posters like AllyF probably bear the bulk of the responsibility - but attitudes are changing. Aside from Mswoman, Seaton and the ever-contemptible Bitethehand, hardly anyone's defending the pervasive misandry anymore, and some of its fiercest critics identify themselves as feminists.

    We've a long way to go. The misandrists still dominate above the line, not to mention the heart of government - the new campaign to tell five year old boys they're wife-beaters being a case in point. But progress.

  30. paddyb - have to admit that I was probably a 'radfem' in my student days - when studying theory, rather than practice, in a way - it was being exposed to the stats etc on 'the other side' of issues like DV that helped to develop my thinking. Those really stunned me - I'd had a picture in my head of 'what DV was' but the sterling work of people putting up research, contrary evidence, and personal testimony, changed that.

    I have been written off (guess who...) as a 'self-hater' for being committed to feminism as achieving parity within the structure of, erm, actual reality, and trying to be accurate in identifying what are and are not feminist issues. But then I've had people who think dinosaurs never existed saying I'm not a proper christian, so to be fair, I shrug both off fairly evenly...

    What does amuse me still (in a bad way) is radfem posters saying "look what all these nasty men are saying!" when there are feminist women also criticising a viewpoint, and git-masculinist posters saying "look what feminism means!" when there are feminist women also...

    you get the picture.

    so, i think you're right, if only from the very limited data set of, erm, me.

  31. Paddy,

    Same here, I think there has been a big change BTL, the debates are generally a bit more critical now, a bit less forgiving, the ATLs arent given a free ride and factual errors arent passed off as irrelevant.

    They should get Belinda BG in more (i havent researched the woman much admittedly), but she seems not only a stickler for good old fashioned facts and methodology but she does have a history of working with womens groups, she is a feminist. Feminism and statistical integrity are not mutually exclusive, despite the Graun's best efforts to prove otherwise.

  32. It's really something when you guys can say you detect a shift in attitudes re: gender on CiF. I feel heartened, too, and grateful that there are plenty of feminists around who, like me, do give a shit about the other half of the human race.

  33. I think its heartening too, MsChin, just disappointing that it tends to be the unprincipled types that work their way to the top, running governments, charities and NGOs. One poster had a good suggestion, replace the ATL fems with the BTL ones.

  34. Jay - nice idea, I reckon the take-over would work fairly smoothly - although it would be more interesting p'raps to have a 'liberty day' where all the articles are from BTL-ers, and the usual suspects had to turn up on the thread.

    Give Alexander Chancellor's gig to BB
    Monbiot's to one of the excellent science-types (Muscleguy, perhaps)
    AB's blog to savvymum
    Hedley's to Kiz
    Anything for which McShane had been tabbed - AllyF
    Anything for which BeaC had been tabbed - you
    Leader article - LordS and His Grace working in tandem, just so's we know our place...

    Who you'd give Tanya Gold's spot to I don't know. Maybe we could rustle some tinfoil to try to attract GIYUS...

  35. Afternoon ciffers.

    I am feeling a bit fed up because I have just had to throw in the towel on a case on the basis that, even if the SSHD has acted unlawfully, it probably wouldn't have been material to the outcome in the end. Argh. Those fuckers get away with murder.

    Anyhoo - aside from putting that dire Ottawan song in my head, good stuff Your Grace and Pip. That's for Bankers spelt with a W. Gits.

    Happy Thanksgiving Montana! I am doing a roast chicken with baked sweet potatoes as a Thanksgiving-lite, although my beloved won't be in til late this evening and the vegan brat won't touch it. Ah well. I will have my own little Thanksgiving with me. :o)

  36. Lady Bea's column? I'm not worthy of her ladyship!

  37. Brilliant Philippa, I might even go back to CiF to see that!

  38. well, I'm making vegetarian lasagne and hoping french video on demand allows me to watch 'version originale' this evening. mmmmmmm.

    now, in case the VO thing doesn't work and we get stuck watching in French (certain guests less capable than others) we need a dumb film with a very easy plot (or no plot) to follow. So, Angels & Demons or Harry Potter 6. Any advice?

  39. Phillipa,

    Either, but watch with the sound off, pick a character (or three) each and make up the lines, best played whilst drinking........

  40. Dot - sound stays on - watching Dolph Lundgren's directorial debut dubbed into French was a recent cinematic highlight, if only for the running commentary as we tried to work out what the hell was going on...

    have already bought wine. that should also help

  41. "As a sovereign nation the UK is entitled to attack any other nation in the act of defending itself. It need only justify the war to itself and to no one else. The people of the UK have already given their approval of the war against Iraq by voting in the party that went to war. Case closed."

    Cretin of the week, right there...

  42. Philippa,

    developing your excellent idea further. CiF could have an 'end of year' awards for BTLers with those winning given the opportunity to write on a 'takeover' day.

    I realise the last end of year poll degenerated into a CiFfarce© but I think they could easily do it properly.

    Jay asked on Waddya for a real debate into the death of our democracy (one of my 'broken record' requests- I've been on about it for ages) and I think either PeterGuillam or ellis should be given that gig.

    And GIYUS should definitely be given an ATL...

    Enjoy the veggie lasagne.

  43. Fairy snuff! Wine will indeed help....

    As a semi-serious tip I assume you know that sub-titles (even in the same language as the film) can help? (I used to watch a lot of English language films with a lot of non-English students)

  44. I'm still angry about some people on the Libby-thread, now it's Cath:

    "What's so wrong with saying yes, this person committed a horrible horrible murder, now let's look at what might have driven her to that. Let's consider other possibilities beyond "she's just an unfeeling manipulative bitch." "

    There is this dreadful cliche that feminists always try to find the cause for a woman doing bad things in men having done bad things (and that they end their search for causes there). Too bad there are some high-profile feminists out there who seem to do exactly that (okay, maybe they don't claim that as a universal principle, women's bad actions are caused by men's bad actions, but they seem to come to this conclusion in every. single. case.)

    It's only a few days since I read that women slut-shaming other women is caused by men looking at women's exposed/accentuated body parts and not taking responsibility for where their eyes are. Same stupid one-sidedness, plus an irritating amount of prudery (when it comes to looking at bodies, not when it comes to showing bodies).


    However, CiF changed the way I think of feminists. I recall being really really moved when I first saw feminists below the line tearing anti-male stuff above the line to pieces. You/they are simply wonderful people!

    I also must say that I'm enormously impressed with freespeachoneeach and his response to BTH's inflammatory question. If BTH had any decency, he would never show his presence on such threads again.

  45. Dot - indeedy, but French TV subtitling is sporadic at best so they either edit them horrendously or flash 'em up so fast you can't read more than the first three words before they're gone. I am hoping the VOD function will be proper DVD standard, or it'll make things worse...

    your grace - those links to the last awards than Damntheral posted made me laugh so hard...vote-rigging? really?

    it was quite interesting to see the longstayers - as everyone still active had their new avatar up. and some 'old fames'. so I wasted some considerable time reading through that.

  46. elementary - hear hear on freespeechoneach. wanted to respond to BTH meself but - well, my post on the issue yesterday probably says it all. I doubt I'd have managed to combine dignity and righteous anger so well.

    I mean, I'd have done anger. No danger there. But the dignity would probably not have happened.

  47. BTH is a troll, nothing more, and he's admitted posting purely to get a reaction on occasion. That was a particularly revolting bit of trollery even by his standards, and freespeechoneach's response was pretty damn devastating, but I think everyone else, other than sticking up for freespeechoneach, should ignore BTH if at all possible.

    The name he uses, and the attutude he displays, leads me to suspect he may be an incognito Guardian staffer, but I could be wrong about that.

  48. Shame they have closed the thread because I wanted to highlight the differences between the cases of Emma Humphreys and Kiranjit Ahluwalia compared with the Andrews case. And as for BTH... well maybe it is a good thing the thread is closed after all.

    Philippa - the French do some really funny comedies - check and see if there is anything on with de Funes in it, or Les Bronzes or something. Easy to follow in French and usually good for an entertaining evening. Angels and Demons is utter shite and HP 6 - if that is the Order of the Phoenix - is quite complicated and would be difficult to follow for people who don't understand the language very well.

  49. BB - you're missing the point if you think that 'utter shite' rules something out from one of our film evenings. we've watched 'across the universe', ffs, we have no standards...

  50. Oh, if you want "utter shite", what about:

    - Casino Royale, the 1967 version
    - Batman and Robin
    - Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle
    - Barbarella
    - Underworld + Underworld Evolution

    Some of the utter shite movies I own on DVD. Reminds me that I wanted to make a "stupid-stupid-STUPID movies" evening with some friends ...

  51. I take it they re-opened the LB thread for awhile today? BTH hadn't reared his nasty little head when I looked at it in the wee hours. Afraid to look again.

    I've not read LB's stuff often enough to have any clue what she's like, but she and Seaton seemed to have utterly missed the point of the outrage that the column provoked.

  52. If you want "utter shite but fun", Deep Blue Sea is always a good one.

    For sheer "what were they thinking?" appeal, though, you really can't beat Zardoz. Not only the most astonishingly bad film ever made, but the most astonishingly bad thing of any kind at all.

  53. Am listening to the news of the Irish abuse report. Am praying that whoever covers this is good. Am praying it is not you know who...

  54. Shaking that off...

    Batman and Robin - have actually watched that dubbed into French, which worked, as my grasp of the language was at the time childish and simplistic (Freeze's jokes even funny)

    And Underworld. hubba.

    Deep Blue Sea - is that the one with the LL Cool J and the Shark, or the one with Jessica Alba in the bikini? Because I have seen both of those, and I know which one I preferred (hubba)...

    crap-film evenings rock. SWAT is a good one (if you see what I mean).

  55. PhilippaB: I wouldn't think Voldemort would be so bad to write it, when compared to someone like Bea Campbell.

    Ähm, oops?

  56. Ah deep blue sea, went to see that with a bunch of engineers and a biochemist, the film was shite, but the conversation in the pub afterwards was fun!

  57. P.S. LL Cool J and the shark....

  58. But have you seen 'Mega Shark v Giant Octopus'?

    Watched that with two biologists. Certainly added to the atmosphere, what with having to resuscitate one of them about half an hour in...

    What's the one with Jessica Alba and the bikini (and the sunken treasure ship and, yes, the shark)? Because I don't think I dreamed that. ahem.

  59. Philippa,

    just listening to the report myself. Jesus literally wept.

    The most damning aspect (apart from the unspeakable abuse) was the claim by the three Bishops of Dublin that they had no idea of the scale of the abuse has been completely rejected.

    These three 'men of God' more concerned with the Church's reputation than the welfare and wellbeing of the 'meekest of the flock'.

    But hey, at least all involved can go into confession and absolve themselves eh?

  60. and with one key document being found in one bishop's private vault...

    agreed. beyond words - the guy being interviewed on PM just now was so dignified, constructive, positive, generous. I cannot understand how you can go through that and be such a good person - it's awe-inspiring.

    or how his abuser could preach on...

  61. Philippa,

    Haven't seen that one.....

    Also I don't know, there was a girl in a half undone wetsuit with an electrical cable in deep blue sea, but I don't think it was Jessica Alba.

    My housemate likes to wind me up by claiming that Jurassic Park could happen....

  62. And for an almost rubbishy film evening for the lads (flexing the Patriarchial muscles there eh?)

    One will require DVD's of the following:

    1. Big Trouble in Little China

    followed by

    2. Con Air

    finishing the evening with

    3. The Rock

    if only to hear Connery utter the immortal line:

    This is your best? Losers always whine about their best. While losers whine about their best, Winners go home and fuck the prom queen.

  63. Hi all.

    Sorry I haven't been commenting here recently. I kind of decided to ducked out for a bit when I looked in one day and found 50 plus posts of someone swearing at himself and everyone else a few weeks back and I've also been a bit busy with other stuff since then.

    The comment in question was ....

    Matt, how does it feel to be fucked up the backside by your own bloggers?

    As if I'd use language so base as 'arse', PhilipaB ;-)

  64. Aha! LordS, I saw that comment before it was blitzed. Didn't think it was long for this world, but it was surely there long enough to be seen :o)

  65. OK - the Jessica Alba film was Into the Blue.

    Dot - you have to see MegaShark v Giant Octopus. Really. Just for "something like this happens in every scientist's life"

    Lord S - welcome back, and my apologies for the misquote. Should have known it would have scanned better...

    Your Grace - loveCon Air and the Rock!

  66. Evening everyone.

    How are things on cif - is it worth a visit tonight? Am staying well away from any catholic priest abuse stuff - it really is unendurable. Men of God huh?

    Pity of it is I know one or two priests who have done absolutely fantastic things with kids in tragic and appalling circs in Liberia - and now I can't help the thoughts in the back of my mind ????

    As to rubbishy films - I'm going to watch a men in black dvd this evenig that my son left here - is that sufficiently crap to get into the league?

    I could always raid his collection of Hong Kong martial arts films for true junk I suppose.

  67. Welcome back, LordS.

    It's a shame that your comment wasn't allowed to stand, but I guess not unexpected!

  68. Philippa - how about Les Compères? Very funny and not hard to follow in French. Dépardieu and Pierre Richard.

    Managed to read through the whole Libby thread today and words just fail me.

  69. Sheff - definitely keep your eyes peeled on Cif this evening. I think something interesting is going to happen.

  70. Indeed. Though as you say, not unexpected. I was surprised it lasted as long as it did.

    If anyone wants crappy films for a lad's night in (or ladettes, I am not sexist about this) I can heartily recommend ...


    Yes folks, for all my arty cinema leanings there are times when nothing does it like a bit of high-jiggle factor, take your brain out, utter nonsense. However, I will admit that had I not seen it as a loss leader in HMV for £1, I'd probably not have bothered.

    It's got Jaime Pressly (Joy from My Name Is Earl) who I think is a rather under-rated comic talent. Her facial expressions and timing are really quite something.

  71. thauma

    An intrigue - how exciting!

  72. Aw Sheff - I love Men In Black :o)

    Sounds interesting, Thaum... come on, give us a clue!

  73. okeliedokelie is doing a sterling job on the VAW thread, where zohra has come BTL to respond to Jay.

  74. What, I hypothesise that something interesting may happen and everyone thinks I am a prophetess?

    I shall meditate upon my thaumaturgical skills and see what dark forces I can harness for the greater good of Cifdom.

  75. Cheeky! You made it sound like you knew something was coming! :o)

  76. Well, I'd just like to mention the transporter series...


    WTP criteria - "Sounds more like the WTF criteria to me" - genius, thauma...

  77. BB - never underestimate thaumaturgy. ;-)

  78. thauma

    Don't torment us! Tell...

    As i'm going to be in London tomorrow I thought I'd trog along to this cif knees up at the Jack Horner. Anyone else going?

  79. Sheff - would love to go, but too far by 'alf.

    The spell has been cast and the gods have delivered. Have a look, all....

  80. Hello All

    Sorry to intro some nasty thoughts - but have been looking for answers.

    Did you see the news item that people were being murdered to provide 'human fat' for anti wrinkle creams. Don't use them myself - I.m just wrinkling elegantly and in my own way.

    However - interested to know - does anybody know how such creams are labelled ? If human fat is used where does it come from. Have seen ads. for collagen based creams ! Any one know anything about this ?

  81. Sheff - I wish I could but I am not in London tomorrow and I have no idea what time I will get finished. I've got an appeal against conviction in Essex in the morning, then a trial near here in the afternoon. :(

  82. Leni - I did see a headline about that but didn't read the article, assuming it was just alarmist nonsense. Is there something in it?

    Can't believe there is, frankly.

  83. Hi all-Leni, I saw that report,very disturbing. A liter of fat went for 30,000 or so? Jesus! Could they not have done liposuction on the poor fuckers? It would be interesting to find out how the industry spins this.Bye for now.

  84. I was a little skeptical myself, but like thauma I didn't read the article. It just sounded too much like the various 'travellers getting done for their whatever' that do the rounds every ten years or so.

    Having said that, I could be very wrong.

  85. I saw the headline the other day, Leni, but I didn't read it.

    Quite disgusting, though.

    Graun article here. Gang killed victims to extract their fat

  86. Congratulations, Montana! Hope you don't sell out;0))

  87. Great piece from Montana there - congrats!

    And well done thauma for keeping the secret!

  88. Bloody hell, BB, wot took you so long?!!

  89. Somebody on Waddya is pissed off ..

  90. I love Deep Blue Sea! A great line from the cook: 'the brother never makes it' and he delivers a reliable omlette recipe.

    Best rampaging animal movie of all time: Tremors

    Hi Lord S you've been missed - I just blink when the Touretting starts - it's like being at Firhill when the 40-year-old casual starts shouting at drunk Fifers and everybody pretends to take an interest in the football.

  91. Hehe, we've got one "anti" on there now....

  92. Yes, LordS, nice to see you back!

  93. D'oh!


    (that's me hitting myself on the forehead)

  94. Will probably be disappearing in a few mins but will rejoin the debate tomorrow (w*rk permitting)....

  95. Just glanced at CiF for the first time in literally ages, and guess what I saw?

    Nice one Montana, but there’s obviously been some sort of typical Grauniad typo mix-up.

    Surely you’re a BAAAD American ;-)

    And I see some bugger called Gigolo has adopted my banana motif…

  96. Yay! Montana got a commission!

    I bet you any money BiteThePillow is spitting feathers.

  97. Fab piece Montana! You are no more a bad American than my American cousin - a retired Lieutenant-Colonel - is a bad American, you are rather both dignified human beings with a grip on life who see more of what your country can be than the dark and unthinking self-proclaimed 'patriots'.

    Happy thanksgiving - no turkey in our house I shall carve a piece of tofu in your honour [raises a glass also]


  98. Nice to be back, Thauma. Probably going to have to duck out again soon for a bit .... pressures of work.

    And I've got a red kidney bean curry on the stove that needs attention!

  99. LordS - BiteThePillow - that provoked a completed belly-laugh, that did!

    Enjoy the curry.

  100. LordS - nearly made me choke on my beer there, mate.

    I think he is more likely to be furiously trawling (trolling?) through all Montana's previous posts to try and find something he can scurrilously misquote out of context to make her look bad...

  101. Oh dear, Montana, you've gone viral...

    AbleNovaCaine, LeoNYC, politicalzoo and jwetzel have all signed up to comment on your blog. Christ knows how many more sad loons will be along once they've polished their guns.

    They all seem to be Good Americans and, as such, have completely missed the point. I thought it was a well-written, balanced and ironic piece. Maybe it was the irony that was the problem.

    Happy Thanksgiving x

  102. Ilikethe80's is on form on Bill Wild's thread!

    "Oh for crying out loud. Masculinity is not about seeking help. It is about self reliance. Now for some people that can't cope that might be a problem but the fact remains. Masculinity is defined by self reliance, the ability to pull your weight. Flaming hell it's even apparent in the fact that many men would rather eat fish eyes than ask for directions. Let alone tell your mates how depressed you feel."

    "Masculinity is competitive. Weakness is a sin not a virtue, Asking for help is a no no!"

    "Should guys seek help sometimes- of course they should. They are only human. The big no no is letting on to other guys whose respect you want, and definitely never to women. They'll eventually just despise you for it."

    I despair!

    Even 30 years ago at university there were the guys that thought the girls would go for the understanding and considerate sort of chap. The girls were happy to indulge and "be friends" and then went to find a Rugby player and/or complete bastard. It took some of them a while to figure that out.

  103. Ben Wild!!!!

    Was caught in the rain and I think my brain is rusting!!!

  104. Hank

    "AbleNovaCaine, LeoNYC, politicalzoo and jwetzel have all signed up to comment on your blog"

    All new posters? Interesting. I reported abuse on the one that told her to piss off or whatever, btw. I don't usually, but that was just nasty for no good reason.

  105. Sheff - was intending to show up at the Jack H but don't think I can make it now, dammit. Sorry.

  106. Shame Shazz - am hoping there'll be someone there who I haven't had a fight with at one time or another.

  107. Edwin - how could I forget Tremors? Work of genius.

    Congrats, Montana - you sell-out! Does that mean you get invited to Matt Seaton's dinner parties now?

  108. Naw, paddy, not dining at the Seatons .. Montana's not a inhouse metropolitan wannabe & has her sights set on dining at more aristocratic tables.

  109. sheff

    Sounds like ally is going. Maybe Jay too. I wish I could make it but it would be quite a schlepp after work, getting back, getting changed and getting on a train up.

    Are you in London for work?

  110. BB

    No just fancied a couple of days in the Smoke as I haven't been down for ages and thought I might as well go this weekend what with the great cif knees up going on. I will do a participant observation and report back.

  111. Do you think Hank and monkeyfish might turn up? That would make my night. I hope Jay does too.

  112. Please take a look at Waddya - fence and our conspiracy theorist have a little ting goin' on there ...

  113. Would love to, sheff, but I'm not much of a drinker. I'm in London tomorrow "on business" but sadly the train home's already booked.

    Have fun, and give Seaton a big snog from me (-;

  114. Hey sheff, have a good time & take care.

  115. er... Hank...
    'Would love to, sheff, but I'm not much of a drinker.'

    Thought you were all supposed to be alcoholic, substance-abusing kitten-murdering bastards on here?

  116. Hank

    Am planning to stay sober because if i didn't i'd just disgrace myself. Still, sorry you won't be there.

  117. I hope you're taking your best chapeau, sheff.

    And shaz, only some of us are booze addled etc. I'm just a wannabe metro wotsit.

  118. Sorry for any alcohol-related offence, I'm a tad booze-addled... double celebration (well, sort of) - birthday (h'm) & #2 chld passing theory test... yh I know, any excuse...

  119. Your birthday shaz? Or was the h'm supposed to be "him"?

  120. Sorry shaz - should've emoticoned (?) that post of mine, I was being somewhat facetious. And jealous, cos I can't hack the drink anymore.

    Happy birthday anyways! And congrats to #2 offspring.

  121. MsChin... tomorrow morning, I'll prob discover I can't hack the drink either... & I don't anticipate yr 6 being merciful...

    Thanks for the good wishes - I was attempting facetious too, no need to apologise! :)

  122. right! have just sat through Angels & Demons (in English, and thank god for good friends, is all I can say) so hpapy birthday shaz, boo won't be at the do tomorrow but have fun all, and am just going to pop over to the Montana thread ('ray!) to see if there are any orcs need smiting.

  123. I'm quite fond of kittens actually...Looking to get one of those white persians whose eyes bulge when I activate the trapdoor to the piranha pool.

    Happy birthday, shaz!

  124. There's definitely an orc needing smiting over there, Pip.

    Quite like the fluffy blue persians myself, hank. You're right though, it's those eyes ..

  125. stoaty

    Where are you? That was a lovely riposte to bth on Montana's thread.

  126. Hank & MsChin - I prefer black fluffy kits with green eyes, although as piranha food I suppose it doesn't really matter... had to restrain myself re the orc...

  127. Phillipa
    Well if bth is an orc (although he's a bit weedy for that) - stoaty smote him rather well. There are a few of those rednecky yanks who see anything that isn't out and out sycophancy as a potential assault on god's own country.

  128. Stoaty was just marvellous. Warmed the cockles etc.

    And where's that deano?

  129. MsC

    Yes, where is deano? Hope he's ok? Deano if you're about, give us a nod.

  130. Have a good night everyone - past my bedtime! xx

  131. Said a while ago that he was going to be offline till early December, sheff. I didn't think he was serious at the time, but apparently I'm wrong ..

  132. Hey, great article Montana!

    And I think the worst of the orcishness had been removed before I got there - apart from ellymiranda, who's havin' a pop. And I am ignoring BTH after the Liby Brooks thread - and that's in the safe paws of colinthestoat anyway, heh heh

    Right - now to see if I've made an anybody's head explode on the AB thread...

  133. Shaz - happy birthday!

    Ach, you're not saying BiteThePillow has turned up on Montana's thread? Will have a really brief look but it's hours past my bedtime....

  134. humph - no takers for me on the AB thread. Have thrown in a grenade (nature of knowledge in organic v inorganic systems) - let's see if that works...

  135. Thauma: He tried a weaselly little remark that he hoped would get her in troub at work, but seems to have been a case of mountains labouring to bring forth a mouse.
    MW: Congradulashuns. Seems to have been well received.
    PhilippaB: Haven't been on an AB thread in ages. I might just be pissed enough now.

  136. Indeed Montana seems to be garnering a few page hits for the Graun, as did Anne and BB when they went ATL. Commissioners, take note! ;-)

    Fence - have had a quick look but haven't got to BTH's comment yet. Really must be off as I have a(nother) manic day tomorrow. :-(

    Rave on, fellow Untrusteds!

  137. Fence - it's all a bit beyond me, to be honest. I'm not even sure who I'm talking to in the whole Claudi-cloud. but sure as hell more positive that the Uganda post - can't go there or may start using 'language'.

    right now would quite like to be a 'gay witch' (what gets hunted) - I know which f-ers I'd be giving boils and pestilence to....

  138. It's not the British Creationists one is it, Philippa? I've just seen SonOfTheRock's there, and I'm not sure I'm sober enough (though part of me is itching for it - he's always good value, in a mindless fucker kind of way).

    By the way - meant to say: fucking good run of posts from you lately.

  139. Well, after an entertaining evening (despite the lack of alcohol), I'm off for a good night's kip.

    But before I do, here's a message for sheff:

    At the CiF bash, you will easily recognisable as you resemble your avatar, but Jay's avatar is a blue mr. blobby, so he should be easy to spot :)

    Night all.

  140. Enjoy the Cif Boozuppery. Was quite - very - tempted to go, but I think the days of wankered autopilot journeys home from That London are behind me.

  141. Aye, Fence, that's it - got terribly introspective earlier so am making up for it in sheer fuckwittery now. Anyway - bless you.

  142. Had a quick look, and I think that needs a full read before I kick off. Fortunately, you and Beor and Fatpants seem to be doing pretty well. Surprised there's a Barney Museum in Portsmouth. Actually, not I'm not; I've been to Portsmouth.
    Good post by whoever pointed out that Spanish people don't type in Spanish accents.

  143. fatpants is a nick cave fan, so that's a big plus point for him (over and above the good sense thing). and i think i may just have threatened the ugandan government and lambeth palace with a series of plagues, so I think possibly I should log off now and get some sleep...

  144. Ha! Always worth doing (the threatening with plagues thing). Didn't Byron once boast of cursing the Pope and eating six biscuits? Good company.

  145. Evening Montana-Read through the comments on your initial offering and most seemed to accept it in the spirit of good feeling. A few 'negative vibe merchants'(The Young Ones-Neil)showed up but a successful debut overall. Well done, and i'm sure we wouldn't all have the guts to attempt it.Bye for now.