05 November 2009

Daily Chat 05/11/09

I'm guessing you're all vaguely aware of what happened on this day in 1605.  In 1872, Susan B. Anthony cast a vote in the presidential election.  She was fined $100 for her illegal vote two weeks later, but never paid the fine.  In 1916, twelve members of the IWW from Seattle were killed when the boat they were on was fired upon by vigilantes trying to prevent them from attending a demonstration by striking IWW members in the town of Everett, Washington.  Two of the vigilantes were also killed.  IWW members were charged with the murders of the vigilantes, but charges were dropped because they'd been shot in the back by gunfire from other vigilantes.  In 1917, Communist revolutionaries overthrew the provisional government in Estonia.

Born today:  Roy Rogers (1911-1998), Vivien Leigh (1913-1967), Ike Turner (1931-2007), Lester Piggott (1935), Elke Sommer (1940), Art Garfunkel (1941), Gram Parsons (1946-1973), Peter Noone (1947) and Tilda Swinton (1960).

Happy Guy Fawkes Night!


  1. Am I being really thick? What does IWW stand for?

  2. International Willy Wagglers?

  3. Ingenious Womble Wranglers?

  4. Imperceptibly Wry Walruses?

  5. Imaginatively Weaponed Wombats?

  6. Indescribably Whiskered Wobbegongs?

  7. Infectiously Wheezy Woodlice?

  8. Impertinently Wailing Wrasse?

  9. No, it's the Wobblies:


  10. I have a wobbly song book from the 1920s. There were quite a few editions up until the 90s. Great cover 'shout line' here, 'To fan the flames of discontent' -


  11. [bing bong]
    Please be aware that a Bea Campbell thread is loose in the store - clean up crew to aisle 5, please, clean-up crew to aisle five
    [bing bong]

  12. I like firework shows - especially when over water.

    Best one I ever saw was over San Sebastian (Basque Spain) about twenty years ago. They have a kinda international firework competition/showcase sorta thing in August each year. Here is an example from 2007:

    San Sebastian Fireworks

    Not the best colour video - but I'm a sucker for a sparkler and a few bangers..

    PB - [bing bong] LOL!

  13. I think Bea Campbell's been at the bong.

  14. Where's scherfig? I think Bea needs the benefit of his opinion.

  15. thauma, my last tentative Cif venture into NI politics saw me rightly castigated by my much more well-informed English betters. Anyway, Lady Bea never listens to commoners.
    Plus, of course, scherfig has disappeared from Cif like Keyser Soze, never to be seen again.

  16. Ah yes, it's all coming back to me now....

  17. A painful experience, thauma. Liberal sensibilities seemed to prefer the rather vague terms 'loyalists' and 'EU citizens' to the more robust and accurate terms 'thugs' and 'gypsies'.
    Reality took a hell of a beating both ATL and BTL on the that one. Not for the first time on Cif, of course, and certainly not the last. But not for me.

  18. scherfig
    I remember it well. Bea is a right monkey, and no mistake.

  19. Afternoon Untrusties

    Another piece about children in immigration detention centres infested by the "kill all immigrants" brigade.

    I can't even be bothered to post on those threads any more.

    Stuck my nose into Bea's piece and decided to butt out of that one too. It will all end in tears.

  20. BB

    Why on earth have they wheeled Bea on to give us her wisdom on NI? Perhaps (as I said in my comment) she thinks its safer than going back to her usual themes given the recent revelations - she's probably still in a state of cognitive dissonance over that!

    Will gird my loins to have a look at the immigration thread but as am recovering from a hideous cold (been in bed all week) and am feeling a bit fragile I might just give it a miss

  21. Aw sheff - hope you are feeling better. There is some nasty stuff floating about at the moment.

    I am at home with an evil lurgey at the moment too. Had the added joys of an upset tum to go with the snotty nose, shivers and sore throat yesterday too.

    On the other hand, I just managed to do some grounds for reconsideration of an appeal in no time flat because it was exactly the same points as another case I drafted grounds for last week - so I have just rattled that off in no time flat - kerching!

    I always feel doubly guilty when I am ill cos there is nowt in the way of sick pay for me, sadly, and it is a strain on the family's finances. So it was lucky this bit of easy work came up.

  22. sheff, Campbell has been writing on NI for years. She's also written a book about it, fuck knows why. She could speakherbranes for England at Olympic level on any subject at any distance, and still nobody would be any the wiser for it.

    Still, it's a living, innit?

  23. Was it Bea who recently went to see the latest in NI courtesy of Unison?

    Take it easy BB & Sheff.

    Hope the man remembers to bring the whiskey home tonight BB

  24. Everyone I know seems to have had that lurgy Sheff, sounds brutal. Don't do anything you don't want to for at least a week I say.

    That immigration one - illegal immigrants=economic migrants=assylum seekers

    They're all the same innit ??


    Have you read Seumas Milne on NI ?? Thoughts ??

  25. scherf

    well if she's supposed to know so much about NI why is she writing such drivel.

    The lurgy is horrible but at least its not the piggy pox so i suppose I should be grateful.

    Am imbibing the old water of life as I type this...

  26. I can't recall anything, bitterweed. Didn't really think that it was an area of interest for him - got any links?

  27. sheff, I never said she knew much much about it, I just said that she wrote about it. We are talking about Lady Tiara Marxist-Aristo-Fuckwit here, you know.

  28. Deano

    He has just come in, shopping bag in hand, so I think my throat will be smiling this evening (instead of feeling like I have been chewing razor wire in my sleep) :p

    Scotch, I'm afraid, my Emerald Isle friends.... ;o)

  29. Much stress on the immigration thread for the need for detention centres to be made 'family friendly'. Sweet of them. Presumably they're planning to put Thomas the Tank bunting on the bars...


  30. Nice comeback from HarrytheHorse to a 'you liberals wanting to spend my hardearned taxes on 4* hotels' post (I'm guessing - it's been modded)

    "I am expected to pay for wars I disagree with. Authoritarian laws that I oppose. A security state that acts against my interests. If I am expected to pay for all these things, why shouldn't you pay for something decent instead, even if you disagree with it?"

  31. Yeah I thought HarryTheHorse's post was a good un. Detention centres might not be as bad as Parkhurst, but they are most certainly not Butlins either. And people forget how much it costs to detain someone. I knew it was about £90 pp per night about 10 years ago. No idea what the costs must be now...

  32. Scherfig, a book of his - back later.

  33. Just saw this on CIF.

    Imogen Black..on the "being Green is no religion"

    "I was hoping he would loose, but I knew he wouldn't because of the implications if he had...

    I don't want a society constructed along the lines of unproved and unprovable phenomenons..."

    Few points

    1) phenomena..not phenomenons

    2) 'phenomena' don't need proving...they've established their actuality by being phenomenal and therefore experienced by sensory apparatus.

    3)The whole comment makes no fuckin sense. Reads as though she's a climate change sceptic..not sure if this is the case or not. She says:

    "I don't want a society constructed along the lines of unproved and unprovable phenomenons..."

    Which, divorced from its grammatical failings, seems to imply that she doesn't want a society organised on the basis of false beliefs. What false beliefs? Man made climate change or climate change denial...how do you tell?

    And yet..it seems to be the most recommended post on the thread. How?
    Does she have an infinite self-recommend facility? What is going on here? Is she being touted for an ATL spot. She seems to specialise in either ambiguous nonsense or predicable, anodyne, textbook liberal fluff, yet gets recommended off the scale...I smell something a bit fishy.

  34. Maybe it is the climate change sceptics - and let's face it, the Graun attracts a shitload of em - who are recommending her comment without actually grasping what it means in the context?

    I thought the article was good and to the point - if climate change becomes a "faith" rather than based on science, it opens the doors to all sorts of weird beliefs that employers could be accused of discriminating against. A strange one for sure.

  35. Having said that, Imogen may not be as intellectual as some, but she often hits the nail squarely on the head for all that.

    It takes all sorts, as the saying goes.

  36. BB

    She's being a bit po faced on the Islamic punk thread

  37. "....if climate change becomes a "faith" rather than based on science,..."

    Having watched " Horizon on BBC the other night I'm not convinced that science is not just another faith or at least it would appear that quite a bit of science might be.

    It appears that Einstein's theory of relativity works just fine ...up to the point where it don't work... which is a good way down, but not quite at the bottom ....of a black hole.

    I don't pretend to understand it - I just wish I could have an internet connection that would allow me to replay the programme a few more times on the iplayer.

    I guess I'm going to have to take a 'faith' approach to science. I guess that puts me in the same category as the vast majority of Joe Public's family.

    Scientists and Priests (and economists) all look the same to many Guard readers...

  38. "I smell something a bit fishy."

    I'm not saying nuffink about nobody..

  39. Interest point, deano.

    I was never any good at science - got kicked out of physics and chemistry at the end of the 3rd year for getting 25% and 23% respectively in the end of year exams. My hubby is pretty hot on things like quantum mechanics and stuff that makes my eyes glaze over... my lad is doing triple science in his gcse options too. But it really is a closed book to me.

    On the other hand, the little I have been able to understand of quantum mechanics kind of shores up some of my Buddhist beliefs, which is kind of bizarre really. So in other words, I dunno what the fuck it is all about really, but it seems to work somehow... er... right...

  40. Deano My understanding, small as it is, is that the theory of relativity works fine for all the big stuff - its when it gets down to really weeny stuff where it all goes belly up.

    Isn't that one of the things they're hoping to discover when they fire up the large hadron collider - how to connect quantum physics with relativity or am I talking through my arse as I so often do?

    Most of the physicists I've known have been completely bonkers but usually in very interesting and sometimes hilarious ways and at least they're interested in evidence.

  41. I was going to make that point Sheff - but I'm in the shit.

    I was supposed to be meeting up with our lass for an evening out together but some fucker's being playing about with the clock's and time and I'm an hour out - I've just had a vexed call from my loved one and I still haven't been showered....


  42. BW - loved it but don't push it..bro

  43. *******Ben Elton if Funny Joke Shock********

    "I think they've got all the stuff about alcoholic units mixed up. As far as I'm concerned, if you can get it all in the car, it's one unit."

  44. RE fishy - the lads at my bro's rugby club always used to say "There's only two things that smell of fish - and one's Scampi Fries". Which made me laugh.

    Ben Elton used to be funny in 1984 - he did write some funny stuff for Black Adder too. But he doesn't do good stand-up any more.

    Bill Bailey's the man, as far as I am concerned.

  45. Hehehehehe

    On a complete tangent here, but I love the adverts they have for the new shiny multi-functional LED HD TVs... I am sitting here with a square black box that is at least 15 years old, so how on earth do they think I can actually see the quality of their tellies on mine?

    Eeejits I tell ya!

  46. Bill Bailey is indeed the Man; he is also the Tinselworm and the Bewilderbeast.

    Wouldn't mind seeing Eddie Izzard again. Stupendously clever and funny guy.

  47. BW

    Am listening to same prog - I do remember BE being funny decades ago although I've never read any of his books.

    Eddie Izzard is a hero!

  48. Shit - just realise Ophelia Benson's got an article. I am Dumkopf. She's great.

  49. Oooh I LOVE Eddie Izzard too.

    I mostly love the awfully clever completely daft ones, as it goes, as opposed to the awfully clever political ones - if that makes any sense at all.

    My favourite bit of Izzard daftness in lego...

  50. Sheff, I read one - Stark. It was pretty average.

    Here's where Ophelia Benson's own website is at by the way.


    Some good debates here:



  51. "This is not a game of who the fuck are you"


    See youse laters.

  52. Never mind the stand-up comedians, how about this from 'Blasting the US with punk Islam'
    Imogen to the mods: I think its unhelpful to remove a post merely because it askes a question about thier views on homosexuality?

    Berchmans to Imogen: nobody has asked them about their views on the 10 K + Iraqi homosexuals that the west's policys have killed.

    Did this Cif revamp disseminate an LSD-like computer virus that affects people who log in? Are any Cif users here feeling any weird effects?

  53. That is a pretty weird exchange, it has to be said. I don't see the point in asking every Muslim what their view is on homosexuality any more than I see the point in asking every Catholic what their view is on contraception. It's daft, and deflects from the point of the thread, which is that there is this punk muslim band having it large in the States, by all accounts.

    Berchie is always good value, though. I have a great deal of time for his sloganeering. :o)

    And on that note, seeing as you brought the subject up...


  54. BB, I take it those musical peeps aren't muslim punks, then? And what are their views on Iraq and bisexuality anyway?

  55. Islamic spiritualists who live with their mums aren't punks; they're silly little self-promoting nobodies who have taken advantage of the Graun's proclivity for the marginal and exotic to give themselves a little plug.

    Fair play to them and they might be nice people etc etc but they're not punks. At the very most they're a novelty firmly at the centre of the US liberal consensus. No doubt they see themselves as a radical affront to mainstream US opinion, and maybe they are but they are on CIF as an edgy 'counterculture' oddity...but they're not. It strikes me that they're probably not very good, particularly radical or especially commited to anything save making a few bob.

    The fact that they're even featured is a sad remnant of that whole discredited post-structuralist/ deconstructionist fetishisation of the marginal which is frankly so fuckin last week. It's why Bea Campbell gets her gig and every other 'out-there' one trick pony who gets to grace CIF with their mindless turgid 'anti-establishment' drivel. It's all so sixth-form common room/ undergrad chic. Can't we have some fuckin politics; tokenism, single-issue and stunts don't really do it for me.

  56. Monkeyfish, if they're 'edgy' on Cif what's their epithet in The Sun

    And who's their PR guy?

  57. Listen, mardy-bum. If you look at CiF there is a whole array of stuff that could be defined as politics that doesn't fall under the categorisation of tokenism, single issue or stunt. There's Seamus talking about Yerp, Barnett talking about the constitution - or what's left of it, Dave Hill talking about housing, Peter Guest talking about African development and China... and that's just 4 different areas.

    There is quite a pick and mix in there if you want something to comment on. It isn't all -isms you know. And you can't expect every single article to be worth commenting on from your perspective. God knows I am happy if there are two or three that I can get stuck into on the same day...

  58. This comment has been removed by the author.

  59. Nah..there's just a pile of bollocks these days. Politics is confrontational. The confrontation should be across clearly established dividing lines. No account 'egalitarian' (sic) pieties and a universal acceptance of liberal capitalism has clouded the picture and people are getting worked up over side issues. CIF panders to that..it might not be the cause but it certainly fulfils its role as a symptom.

    Least you knew where you were in the 80s. Good guys and bad guys, black hats and white. Now everyone's hat is some shade of shit...for all the griping about corporatism, managerialism and consumerism, it's taken as a given...the fighting's taking place elsewhere...in the sphere of a social policy split along a reactionary / diversity divide...it's a distraction. Political economy is the organ grinder and it's starting to look like Fukuyama was right...that's off limits these days and we're fighting over the colour of the wallpaper.

    "There is quite a pick and mix in there if you want something to comment on."

    Me?...I'm not allowed to fuckin comment...even if I did want to.

    I'm so bad...apparently.