07 November 2009

Daily Chat 07/11/09

A meteorite landed in a wheat field near Ensisheim, Alsace, in 1492.  The London Gazette was published for the first time in 1665.  Jeannette Rankin of Montana became the first woman elected to the US House of Representatives in 1916.  Only four months after opening, the Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapsed when steady 42 mph wind caused the bridge to begin swaying.  Carl Stokes became the first black mayor of a major US city (Cleveland) in 1967.  Douglas Wilder became the first black governor of a US state (Virginia) in 1989.  David Dinkins became the first black mayor of New York City, also in 1989 and Mary Robinson became the first female president of the Republic of Ireland in 1990.

Born today:  Captain James Cook (1728-1779), Marie Curie (1867-1934), Leon Trotsky (1879-1940), Albert Camus (1913-1960), Mary Travers (1937-2009), Jean Shrimpton (1942), Joni Mitchell (1943), Danny Grewcock (1972) and Rio Ferdinand (1978).

It is National Day in northern Catalonia.


  1. I've never heard of Danny Grewcock, but couldn't resist including him in the list merely because of an admittedly juvenile amusement at the name. Poor boy.

  2. Well it could have been worse - if he had been a girl and was called Fanny Grewcock.

    When is it National Day in Southern Catalonia?

  3. I dunno. I'm perplexed as to how a region that isn't, strictly speaking, a nation can have a 'national day', at all.

    Good op-ed by Nicholas Kristof from the New York Times about American health care.

    People all over Viet Nam can thank their lucky stars they weren't born black and in New Orleans.

  4. Confused - Catalan national day is 11 September (happened when I was on hols) - ? - maybe they're just being greedy and sneaking in another one.

  5. Yeh the weak relief operation after New Orleans would have shamed a third world nation. Am no American baiter Montana - yanks do many things better than us - but the Bush administration was utterly hopeless.

  6. I may not have woken up properly, but I think today's Saturday Live is a spoof - the listing says it's 'businessman Harvey Jacobson' being interviewed but it sounds like John Culshaw being as boring as humanly possible.

    "Footwear is the family silver"
    "I'm not backward in coming forward"
    "When the going gets tough, the tough get going"

    now even more confused.

  7. "Not that I know Mr Daltrey, but I think that he's got the third best rock voice in the country"

    Definitely a spoof.

  8. No, Philippa, unbelievably, he's for real.

  9. Aye Harvey is a real northern businessman!

  10. Edwin -- the Viet Nam/New Orleans thing was a reference to the fact that the average Vietnamese has a longer life expectancy than the average black New Orleanian.

    Right -- I'm off to bed now.

    Daltrey's second. Right after the lovely and talented Mr. Hall.

  11. G Gertie made for insecurity in the western world.

    Most of my adult life I have lived in the shadow of special bridges - the ironbridge in Salop and latterly the Humber bridge in Yorks - it's the notion of having the courage to step on and walk across that is exciting....

    I just love bridges and .............lady chimney sweeps

  12. BTW, Jacobson's first two 'rock voices' were
    1) Paul Rogers
    2) Robert Plant (initially referred to as 'that Brummie', so I was briefly wondering if he meant Ozzy Osbourne)

  13. G Gertie made for insecurity in the western world.

    Most of my adult life I have lived in the shadow of special bridges - the ironbridge in Salop and latterly the Humber bridge in Yorks - it's the notion of having the courage to step on and walk across that is exciting....

    I just love bridges and .............lady chimney sweeps

  14. Sorry about the double post - something wrong with the techno here.

  15. I've just broken my golden CiF rule- don't get into an argument with MaM.

    On the Lerman thread he/she argued that the USA is unlike European capitalism in that it was not built upon empire and exploitation. I pointed out the fact that the US economy was built upon slavery.

    I've since been denounced as using Communist doublethink. To which I bit back. And we all know biting back against MaM is akin to urinating against a force 10 hurricane.

    Silly duke, silly duke, silly duke..........

  16. JesusTheCityTrader is at it again on waddya. Ace.

  17. "I pointed out the fact that the US economy was built upon slavery." .... etc

    A famous movie quote comes to mind:
    "You won't win Jake. It's Chinatown."

    Good luck chap !

  18. Your Grace - my 'leave it, he's not worth it' filter has also switched off this morning - I'm querying how he can diagnose tokers as 'sociopaths'...

    silly philippa, indeed.

    PS - given some MAM classics from 'fem' threads, I'm going out on a limb and assigning him a Y chromosome...

  19. I though MAM was a madam not a chap ???

  20. ...........silly duke silly.............but readable duke.


  21. Bitterweed - really? Crivens...

  22. B..weed careful brother - assigning a gender to MAM is plain folly. It can sense your corner of the universe.

    Don't ask me to explain - I can't but I do know about these things.

  23. Philippa, good luck with the MaM bashing!

    I'm still convinced MaM is a CiF plant employed to stoke up controversy.

    It's a weird CiF day right enough. On top of arguing with MaM, I also found myself nodding in agreement with one of GIYUS posts on the WADDYA threads!

    Granted last night I was drinking some Belgian beers I had never tried before (Gouden Carolus and Double Enghien) so I'm wondering if they have absinthe style wormwood qualities making reality a hazy place.

  24. Only on others' say so...

    I seldom have anything to do with MAM as she/he/it is clearly just a industrial/military IT blac ops software programme that got leaked throught the NSA's firewall and got onto the web.

  25. Morning everyone

    The Graun's worth buying today - if only because The Guide section has been given to the Viz team.

    Auberon Waugh suggested that "if future generations look back at the age, they'll more usefully look to Viz than they would, for instance, the novels of Peter Ackroyd or Julian Barnes"

    They've also started a section on the 100 years of great photographers. Brilliant picture of Ben Tillet addressing a crowd at Tower Hill

  26. Bitterweed- a better description of MaM I could not think of even if I had an army of scriptwriters.

  27. heh heh.

    maybe GIYUS is a rogue thesaurus programme that sneaked out when the programmer's back was turned.

    i have visions of it making little 'mi mi meep' noises and waving its paws around when it lands another killer blow on conventional thinking and basic grammar structures...

  28. Morning Sheff.

    Totally agree with you about Viz. I still get it delivered and it's sharper and funnier than ever. There was a brilliant mock up of one of those Govt benefit fraud ads a couple of months ago.

    With a CCTV image of people walking over a London Bridge it had superimposed:

    - TV licence dodging
    - Car tax evasion
    - Video piracy
    - Identity theft
    - VAT fiddles
    - Terrorism.......

    We know you're ALL up to something. And we won't rest until every last person in Britain is behind bars.

    Issued by HM Govt


  29. Phil.. - I am slow at the reading dear girl.

    Silly lovely lady to ascribe a Y or a X or any conceivable combination or variant thereof is .............to be frank........plain fucking madness.

    MAM is a poorlyness that can infect not only your computer but entire continents.

    Take care lovely child and breath deep and sound for a week or two - it may just have missed your flag.


    ps if MaM finds itself here we are all fucked

  30. Actually I'd be pretty ammused if Mam did come here...

  31. PS - annetan - have just read your comments on the home-schooling thread - brilliant. I think a lot of people who think that bullying is 'just a part of growing up' are thinking not of bullying but of 'joshing' or whatever. Not the sort of poisonous, targeted shit that can take place - nor yet actual violence.

    I was fat, speccy and smart as a child (I still wear glasses, chuckle) so got a bit of the low-level 'ribbing', but was fortunate enough to spend the first five years at secondary school in an environment where being clever wasn't enough to make you a target for bullies. By the time that kicked in, in the sixth form (different school) I could handle myself. But I was a cowardly little sod, so stood by when my two 'best friends' shut out the fourth member of our group. Was too scared to risk them turning their attention to me, to be honest.

    What it would have been like to be 'that girl', I can only imagine. And I bitterly regret not having more moxy at the time. I'm glad your daughter has managed to recover from it - and that she had a mum ready and willing to stick up for her.


  32. Weed - the madness is upon you brother. I will on this occasion excuse (ignore) your testro fueled insanity

  33. OK, I'm off to a garden centre for some sanity. Well, sandstone slabs actually. Laters peeps.

  34. Bullying is a vile and pernicious thing. My lad has been bullied since his first day at primary school when he come home and asked me what "ginger pubes" meant. Having bright red hair, he has been randomly targetted for physical and verbal abuse virtually every day of his school life since. He takes it with a pinch of salt now, and the physical bullying has more or less stopped altogether. But I despair at times - I find it really hard when he just decides he is not going to school following an incident, because I sure as hell wouldnt want to go either.

    On a completely different note - although bullying is still an undercurrent - I just commented on the Inde website about another of Griffin's acts of stupidity at the Menin Gate yesterday, and they have a Live Journal based log-in system. You have the option to reply directly to a post also, where it becomes "nested" within a conversation, as it were. I was about to reply to one of the knuckle-draggers and got a warning notice that the poster had enabled the function to track the IP's of people who posted!

    Why the f00k would someone from the BNP posting on a public forum feel the need to do that, unless of course it was to try and "track" whoever opposed their views? That has really creeped me out big time.

  35. PB - I have heard a suggestion that Hannah was an early wearer of spectacles but I'm not altogether convinced of the authority of the source.

    But I travel with hope x.

  36. Arguing against MAM is like banging your head on your desk.

  37. I feel sorry for kids these days.

    Bullying is excarcebated inexorably in our digital age- texting, facebook, twitter, youtube happy slapping, email- there is no escape from the constant pressures of 'communication' be it positive or negative.

    On top of that, you have a country that barely tolerates them, a Government desperate to dumb down their education in search of targets and an absolute shit economy and future to emerge into.

  38. BB -"Bullying is a vile and pernicious thing."

    My dear young woman I have to say that there is no finer sentence that I could think of that would better describe the awfulness of it. I despise bullying.

  39. ay ay, your grace, shudder to think of the effect the ability to 'multi-media bully' would have had when I was at school. it seemed bad enough when the weapons were sniggering whispers and pen and paper...

  40. Righty ho,

    I'm off to sunny Stenhousemuir to catch the Stenny-Dumbarton game. My cousins a Stenny man.

    If anyone ever gets the opportunity, go to a lower league Scottish game, they are effing brilliant.

    The football is industrial, the pies dodgy and the grounds crumbling but the patter is brilliant, the social clubs do a great pint and you're standing with real football fans.

    Toodle pip.

  41. [ah-wooh-ah, ah-wooh-ah]
    (that's a siren, by the way - think the opening of 'Cannonball' - the 'bing bong' just doesn't cut it this time)
    Guess who's back?
    Back again?
    Bea is back
    Bring your friends

    And this time she's talking about prostitution. This is going to be nasty...couldn't they get someone who doesn't use phrases like 'everybody knows' to write about something so complicated?

    [throws shoe at siren]

  42. What is going to happen next will outrage me and cause me to get very drunk.

    Men with guns are coming into the field in which I live. They are to come here in the next hour,or so, on a wonderfully sunny and sharp day in Yorkshire.

    They come in the name of sport to shoot grouse and wild pheasant. I will eat both but to kill either for sport is beyond my ken. It's up there with raping women - why dear god would a man do that?

    I know about uncontrollable testro - FFS have a wank guys. Just ask a lass and do it nicely no lass ever refused me when I took the time to charm her.

    I really feel uncomfortable now the guns are in the next field and I want a bren gun and I want to shoot the men.

    This is one of only three days in the year when I wish I was not a tramp in van in a field. I will have another two days at three week intertvals untill the annual carnage is over.

    deano reaches for vodka instead of the usual red stuff and signs out with a humanist....laters

  43. Phillipa

    Bea is back
    the usual ineffable tedium will ensue...

    Why can't cif find other pundits on these contentious subjects - bloody Bea is so predictable.

  44. The noise get closer - I will write about something which pleased me.

    I was called out the other night by the love of my life - my sometime wife. She invited me to join her to listen to her bloodside, and my, nephew play an unexpected gig at our local Jazz club.

    Guys - that kid of a piano laying neph of ours was shit hot. You would expect that from a guy who is licensed to play the piano and busk on the streets of medieval York.

    " If the guys don't like my playing Unc deano I don't eat..."

    Admirable twat of Neph on my sometime girl's side he is.He was invited (and paid) to stand in for the local keyboard player.

    He then brought a friend who plays the hottest horn I heard since Gillespie. These were men who never even think about forcing themselves on women. Why would they when a smile would suffice?

    Are you reading ..expat. Neither of these guys were attractive - but neither were short of entry into real women's pants

  45. The bastards have stopped for lunch - I am willing all that has life in my vicinity to flee

  46. Hah! Have just noticed I've been 'disappeared' from the Simon Mann thread - as they've left up a post quoting my antipathy for chick-lit, I can only suppose this was due to referreing to 'overtly state-supported illegal engagements' in the previous para...

    Ah well. That's my fourth echte modding. I feel very proud. May have a glass of something.

  47. deano - if you don't have a dog to let off the lead, try running about flapping your arms. better yet, go over (with your bottle of vodka) and engage them in conversation while trying to pinch their sandwiches. maybe try singing at them. they'll soon sod off. means to an end...

  48. My lovely young Methodist lover with glasses- I have lived in this field, for a decade,

    but it is a delight to be advised by one whose post's I routinely consult.

    If you consult, on a shit boringly day the archive, you will find that I co exist with Mungo and Diesel- dogs of willing distinction.

    My only purpose in life is to engage them in conversation

  49. The lunch is long lived - I hurt

  50. Had a message from JesusTheCityTrader announcing he seems to have been made persona non grata at CIF. However, he did just want to post one last thing in response to an especially muddle-headed post on WDYWTTA by Brusselsexpat..

    "Have they worked on programmes to help the disadvantaged - whether they be children or the disabled for example? Have they done any voluntary work say in hospitals or prisons?"

    No but they might well spend their days scrubbing the floors or cleaning up after the incontinent for 12 hours or so at minimum wage meaning the option to...

    Donate”large sums of money to the Third World via organisations like Médecins Sans Frontières?"
    is out of the question. Surprisingly enough, because they aren't middle-class and don't have the necessary income.

    "Have they ever worked in a proper employment capacity on things like Cancer Research or Third World Aid?"

    No...because they're not middle class.

    “Oh I could go on and on”

    You don’t say.

    “Now here's a thought: wouldn't the money you spend on alcohol be better spent as a donation to the under-privileged”

    What if they are underprivileged?...it's not like they're middle-class remember.

    jewellery...elitist cultural gatherings...all much of a muchness in my book. Although alcohol is rather more effective at blocking out the mindnumbing drudgery of a non middle-class day at work.

    As it happens, I'm currently working on a charitable project involving a handbag sweatshop to be staffed by starving Africans. They won't be paid, as such, but any profits will partly contribute to a fund for starving Africans. They've be much happier being rewarded with aid, knowing that a suitable part of their earnings has gone to fund the activities of nice concerned middle-class charity professionals organising all sorts of fun events. Aid just isn't really aid unless some silly cow gets to swan around playing Lady Bountiful, eh now?

  51. Regarding Bea Campbell, her recent outrageously dishonest article on NI provoked a sort of flashback in me. Something I had forgotten for over 30 years. In 1976 loyalist terrorists blew up the Club Bar in Belfast. This was a bar which was more or less exclusively used by QUB university students, both Protestant and Catholic (and also, strangely, by Hell's Angels). A close friend of mine was there that day (luckily I was not), and just before the bomb went off (it was placed under a seat in the front bar where he was sitting) he went to the toilets. He was sitting there, fairly stoned, when the whole place shook and he had no idea what had happened. When he opened the door into the front bar, the door fell off and all he could see was smoke and rubble and daylight and bodies. He was sitting in the debris in a state of shock when he noticed a foot. He picked it up and was holding it when the ambulance guys arrived (the City Hospital is only 200 yards away, and they were at the scene within minutes). A stretcher went past him carrying a young woman who had lost her leg below the knee, and he stood up and carefully placed the foot on the stretcher, and said cheerfully to the girl 'Here you are, love, you might be needing this.'

    And the terrible thing is that now I can't even remember how many people died that day (it was at least one, dozens injured), and it's not even easy to find it on google. I did find this:

    Robinson, David 28 May 1976, (23) Protestant
    Status: Civilian (Civ), Killed by: non-specific Loyalist group (LOY)
    Killed in bomb attack on Club Bar, University Road, Belfast.

    And Campbell has been making money out of this shit for years, and claiming she's an expert on NI (and specifically to you, sheff, btw, in her BTL reply). Bea Campbell is a cunt, and Matt Seaton is a fuckwit for defending her bullshit, and the Guardian is a sham for consistently publishing her and similarly morally corrupt careerist wankers, along with the usual neo-cons, fascists, liars, narcissists. etc etc. I know that most people here think that it's quite fun and maybe even useful to engage with Cif, but I think that at some point one has to be honest and try to retain a shred of integrity just say 'fuck them'.

  52. MAM has indicated before that she is indeed a she. I like her; she has a very serene way of completely ignoring you when you correct her, it's almost like an old marriage but without kicking the dirty laundry.

    BB good luck with the bullying - it often seems there's nothing to be done, and fighting back has to be done carefully. We live beside Glasgow Academy (which costs a fortune) and we know several parents who scrimped to put their children there to get (a) a proper education, (b) a safe environment. (b), however, proves hard everywhere, and at places like the Academy you just get more sophisticated bullies, true of Glasgow, true of Oxford (I could a hellish story tell of a 'good' Oxford school) and true of anywhere.

    I sometimes think of the end of Quatermass and the Pit, where the majority hunt down those who are different. I think they can tell us apart whatever the class and and they hate us!

    There is a nice Bud Neill cartoon (His Grace may know it) of a wee wummin looking at a wee boy and saying 'Rid herr. Rid herr is rerr')

  53. This comment has been removed by the author.

  54. Thats a very bleak and tragic memory scherf, although it does have a blackly comic edge which reminds me of Eureka Street.

    As for Bea coming btl - what a turn up - perhaps she's feeling the sting a bit. I acknowledge I was ignorant of her having written extensively about NI. I don't think, given her piece the other day, I'll be in a hurry to investigate her writings on that subject though.

  55. scherf - It occured to me you might be offended by my suggestion that there was anything at all comic about the QUB bombing. I didn't mean it that way - its more to do with that deeply dark humour I've met in NI when it comes to tlkig about the troubles.

  56. deano - my very best to mungo and diesel (if i go diving into the archive i really will never get anything done...)

  57. Absolutely not, sheff, we only walk on eggshells 90% of the time here, :o)

    It was my mate's story, as he told it, dark humour indeed, no less heart-breaking for all that, but you gotta laugh.

    ha, ha, bitterweed, more absurd dark humour from the bien pensant who don't shop at Primark. I pretend to be quite concerned about the starving niggers myself, but only so that I can look down my nose at the plebs who drink too much and don't contribute their hard-earned wages to the cause. I don't actually care about the third world, it's more a sort of accessory like a handbag or an opera ticket and it persuades some people that I 'care'. I don't really give a fuck, but one must keep up appearances.

  58. bored - just trying out bespectacled smiley. as you were...

  59. If MaM is a woman, she's a lesbian who crashes men-only events/organisations. He specifically commented to me about running away from any woman who said [whatever it was I'd commented -- forgotten now] on a first date [I wasn't talking about a first-date scenario] and then referred to the atmosphere of the increasing number of men-only functions and organisations he participates in.

  60. Well, if MAM's a lesbian, I'm going to have to re-think my position on that...


    evening / morning Montana - ca va?

  61. I always thought MAM was a bloke too. Talking of strange folk, I wonder where BTH has been lately - maybe on a slow boat back from China?

    Monkeyfish - I kind of thought Jesuscitytrader was you - or possibly Hank. Has Jesus blown it on cif? I do hope not...

  62. Sheff

    yeah, seems so. Shame really. I only started him up because there were a couple of posters there at the time who I wanted to get into a row with but they both disappeared before I could get started. Don't want to say who cos I might try it again one day but they both irritate me immensely and just aren't that bright underneath all the blustering etc. They could be easily drawn into a self-incriminating remark or two. Sad really, dunno why I bother. I'm sure monkeyfish could just go in with both barrels but it's a tricky balancing act with a new 'character': posting for the first time, creating an instant impression, appearing both deranged and worth attacking etc. Probably do a religious nut next time, an evangelical or something.

  63. scherfig
    I think you meant monkeyfish-jesus in yr las post ??

    JesusC-T will be missed !

  64. monkey - I thought the new character was brilliant! - as if he'd come in and sat down, very cross, with two pints inside him, and decided to go right at it...

    the first one and the flasher comment were just genius.

    would be interested to see your 'religious nut'. remember - mad they may be, but they have internal logic. way, way internal, maybe, but it's there.

  65. ps - the way I normally tell if I'm arguing with a real fundy headcase is that they are unfailingly cheerful, and polite, and seem genuinely concerned that I'm going to hell. not concerned enough to re-evaluate their ideas, obviously, but concerned because it's a real pity that I haven't seen the light yet.

    remember - some anti-evolutionists will be rude, but a full-on rapture mentalist will want to be your friend...

  66. Great panel question today (or tomorrow - think they're a bit early):
    Which discovery has most improved your life?

  67. Evening all.

    Froze my bollocks off at the fitba today to the extent that I had to ask the barman to stick my pint in the microwave after the game.

    Monkeyfish- you could style yourself as the CiF Chris Morris, popping up in a new disguise, maybe getting Bea Campbell to unwittingly talk about the effects of faux marxist feminism on her Shatner's Bassoon.

    Edwin- I know Bud Neill's cartoons well. I always give a nod to Lobey Dosser's statue when I'm walking down Woodlands Road going to get my curry supplies.

    I'm sure I read somewhere that the statue is the only two legged horse statue in the world or something.

    Anyway, Duchess Wybourne is on a nightshift tonight nursing in A&E so I may pop in here now and again if that's ok. The Saturday evening/Sunday morning Glasgow A&E shift is affectionately known as 'the Beast' amongst my wife and her colleagues.

    If you knew what they had to deal with, you'd happily pay an extra 10 pence in the pound in your taxes to give to the staff.

  68. keeping my fingers crossed for her grace...

    i knew i had to consider moving house when the hospital over the road (Lewisham) proudly unveiled its on-site police station. and they were f-ing busy.

  69. Your Grace

    Her Grace isn't at the Royal is she? I remember spending a saturday night there once with a young woman who had overdosed. It was a bit of an eye opener to say the least, (I hadn't been in Glasgow long).

    All the saturday night chibbing victims were wheeled in, accompanied by mates - all off the planet on various substances - complete mahem.

    I remember one young guy in particular. He strutted about shirtless, covered in tattoos and chib scars. The most impressive tattoo was a huge King Billy on a rearing horse which covered his back and of which he seemed inordinately proud.

    The staff in that hospital are absolute saints I don't know how they cope. Much kudos to the Duchess if she works in A&E there.

  70. Just got done reading the LadyBea prostitution thread. Excellent posts, Sheff. I'm amazed by how many men there must be in Britain who've met perfectly happy prostitutes in social situations without ever having actually paid for the services of one, themselves.

  71. Hi Sheff,

    no it's not the Royal thank God. With that Hospital's proximity to the east end, it is proper hardcore as you yourself have experienced!

  72. Hi your Grace - is it he Western she works in? I spent four fraught nights there in March - weekends are dreadful.

    I live just a few streets away from the Lobey Dosser statue. I remember Calum Mackenzie organising the funding at Halt meetings, some fab nights there.

    Re the great MAM persona controversy, he is maybe another William Sharp, who dressed in a pretty frock to write under his Fiona Macleod persona; a scholar was told this and said 'Did he? the Bitch!'.

    Next time anyone gets annoyed by MAM, just picture a big bloke in a Laura Ashley frock.

  73. One of those 70's flowery maxi frocks Edwin? you know the ones with big lacy collars and an A line waist.

    Not many of us about this evening - is everyone out burning Guy Fawkes do you think? Personally I am drinking a toast to him and mourning his failure to blow the bloody place up. Most of it is hideous victorian faux gothic anyway and an aesthetic offence.

  74. Hi Edwin,

    she's down the Viccy on the Soo side serving the douche citizens of Chateau lait.

    I see from a photo of William Sharp that he had one of those wax moustache/goatee efforts so beloved of Scottish artists of the time such as Rennie Mackintosh and Robert Louis Stevenson.

    The combo is long overdue a comeback in my opinion, I may consider it!

  75. Your Grace

    I thought the Viccy was closing or had been closed - it is just across the park from where I used to live.

  76. X Factor's finished.

    Just looked at CIF wdyattsr whatever. Lord Summerisle, trusting soul that you are.. 3 out of 222 deleted...aren't you forgetting those that disappear without any trace?..the 'unposts'.

    The true number of disappeared posts is impossible to discern. I know of at least 2 which which winged their way towards the thread only to be lost in transit. Ironically, the true number of deleted posts share an existential attribute with the true number of trafficked sex workers ie. a figure that any interested party can pluck out of the air at random...I'll hazard a guess at 25000.

  77. Evening all, been away from the place for a week, and sober for 6 days. Checked my emails tonight and a friend flagged up the U2 piece by Montana. Interesting debate.

    Scherfig's points about drive-by abusers were spot on.

    Oh, and Kiz's conspiracy theory which didn't quite go the distance and out me as a misogynist was typically gutless and intellectually flimsy. I've fallen out with loads of people, Kiz, men and women. I'm sure you can give chapter and verse if you wish.

    They're not all women, they're people I disagree with for various reasons. I'm an equal opportunity ranter, kiz.

    Don't paint me as a misogynist in the interests of turning our feud into a moral crusade.

    Interesting also to see that Bru managed to drag herself away from the opera and the Brussels boutiques to comment on me when the mob she despises had in fact turned on me. Not a wonder she lives in Belgium with that amount of backbone.

    I didn't read the Waddya thread the following day(s) so haven't seen what comments were made about me. For those, like Montana, scherfig, parallax and Fencewalker, who have apparently defended me, I appreciate your integrity, independence of mind and size of your heart.

    For those who apparently joined in with the virtual kick in, and I can't be arsed to trawl back through the archives to identify you, just remember that I've always spoken my mind, whether it was popular to do so or not. I didn't need the cover of the crowd to do so.

    I'm neither a coward or a bully. Few of you can say the same, ie those of you who gossip and conspire over at the PB, and decide which posters, whether on here or on Cif, you're going to attack en masse.

    So, no apologies from me this time, and no regrets anymore. There's some good people on here, and some not so good.

    And I am no longer prepared to apologise for offending the mediocre lurkers.

  78. Sheff,

    it's still there, there was plans to close it but they've instead built a new shiny Victoria although A&E is still in the old building.

    How long did you live in the Dear Green Place for? And more importantly how long did it take you to understand the locals?!

  79. 'One of those 70's flowery maxi frocks Edwin? you know the ones with big lacy collars and an A line waist.'

    I've had to let mine out Sheff!

    Duke, Sharp's 'celtic' verse is actually very good, and Boughton made a wonderful opera out of the lyrics - The Immortal Hour, which was performed at the first Glastonbury Festival (few people know this).

    Th Viccie - oh god. Her Grace is a rock, hold on to her!

  80. Edwin,

    oh yes, the Viccie.

    Saturday night shifts require the mental resilience of General Zukhov in the latter stages of the Battle of Stalingrad combined with the physical endurance of a herd of elephants.

    We are truly not worthy.

  81. Your Grace
    I lived in and around Queens Park for about 4/5 years. I quickly learned that I would be steam rollered flat if I didn't fight my corner with as much humour as I could manage - apart from that and causing some annoyance for resisting standing for the soldiers song in the Brazen Head after n old firm match (I hate being madeto do things i have not expected I'll have to do), I survived relatively unscathed.

    Actually I loved living in Glasgow and if family reasons hadn't called me back down south I'd still be there.

  82. Ha, well, as I say, just popped in to clarify a few things. Satnav set for Coventry, as if I didn't know the way already.


  83. hank - are you popping off already? You've only just got back.

  84. Jesus Sheff,

    refusing to follow the Patrons will? In the Brazen Head? On an Old Firm day?

    On a hardness scale, that is a granite Muhammad Ali.

    You have all the attributes required to be a Glasgow A&E nurse on a Saturday night.

    Just sign here please.

  85. Hi Hank,

    I certainly wasn't trying to ignore you. There appears just to be myself and Sheff on at the moment and as a newbie here I didnt think it was my place to get involved with what has happened previously.

    For what it's worth I've thoroughly enjoyed the brief exchanges we've had on here and I hope you're doing well.


  86. Your Grace

    I put it down to beginners luck - I hunched in a corner and tried to look small. Fortunately Celtic had won and they were all monumentally pissed and good humoured.

    There had been quite a good band on and as I had already learnt all the words to the Fields of Athenry I managed to get away with it somehow

  87. Well Monkeyfish

    The silly cow is back from a performance of Turandot and let me set the record straight.

    I have sponsored children via Save the children, International Christian Relief, and Action aid. Did that for 20 years.

    Worked three years in the European Commission of Third world Aid.

    Make regular donations to charity for third world and poor in Belgium.

    Have just been roped in for the Missing Children Europe charity in Brussels.

    After attending a Brussels reception also attended by José Barosso and Mme V. Giscard d'Estaing.

    So I really don't care what a phoney like you thinks because all you do is criticise and do sweet FA for anyone.

    Get of the booze and see yourself for what you really are. Moron.

  88. Ah well, an excellent evening. David Haye proves the quick moving, intelligent, feisty underdog can win the day against the established monolith with little stamina, technique or class..possibly a lesson there for every erstwhile banned cif poster.

    The internet arm of the bearers of the left-liberal flame; where affluent, bourgeois Belgian residents with a Marie Antoinette complex and an abiding hatred of the British 'lower orders' are valued contributors and regular folks can go fuckin whistle. Shit I'm pissed again...and so guilty I didn't spend the money on Medecin Sans Frontieres..next week I promise.

    Always been more of a Jeu Sans Frontieres man myself..I fuckin miss Stuart Hall and Eddie Waring of a Friday night..."S'right Ah'm Playin' me Joker Eddie"

    And what did I do to piss off Hermione Granger btw? Far as I recall out BW called her a 'goal-hanging cunt'...hardly abusive when contextualised..simply a humorous reference to her getting in the first post (a la year old kids havin a kick about down the park)...referencing the lack of an offside law in such situations and the consequent tendency of the odd glory hunting little scamp to set up camp in front of the opposition posts in the hope of a simple tap in..was that not it BW? Anyways WTF do I care, I've always quite dug hermione's patter.

    Nice to see you back Hank btw.

  89. Hey everybody:

    Just thought I’d drop in to see how things had been in my absence.

    Glad to see you’re all managing to be reasonably civilised, though it’s obviously too much to expect total harmony when there are so many opinionated and argumentative buggers around (that’s intended as a complement in case you’re not sure).

    I see it’s National Day in northern Catalonia; does anyone know when the southern Catalonians celebrate their national day? Sounds like a bit of People’s Front of Judea/Judean People’s Front action going on there.

    Is there a lesson we should learn? Draw your own conclusions…

  90. This comment has been removed by the author.

  91. "So I really don't care what a phoney like you thinks because all you do is criticise and do sweet FA for anyone."

    Strangely enough, the local FA have just banned me your highness.

    Won't bother listing any charitable causes cos that kinda thing is just so
    much more of your fucked up ostentatious/ noblesse oblige/ self-loving/ shitehawkery.

    Oh fuck it...since it's you...I'd bet the shirt of my friggin back that I've given a higher proportion of my income and way, way more of my time to deserving causes over the past twenty years than you could ever fuckin imagine...and not one friggin penny on a benefit performance of some fuckin elitist publicly funded arts fiasco.

    Thing is some of that went to local causes, not high profile "look at me and the little black orphan" spectaculars that probably float your pretentious boat.

    Get over yourself airhead.

  92. This is classic, and the reason I occasionally let off a bit of steam:

    "Just back from Turandot, bit squiffy, and the champers was expensive but it was all for charidee. Ok, yah, maybe only 10% off the profits went to those poor little shoeless Negro children, but it's really not acceptable that you louts should accuse me, ME!, of not doing my bit."

    I could do more about the handbag and pearls stolen from the lands of the poor, sweated over by the landless serfs of the corporations and marked up by the tax-dodging cunts who Bru and her mates fawn over, whose crimes she facilitates, but what's the fucking point?

    Bru - don't ever presume to address me in an argument. You haven't got the wit.

    And don't ever presume to take the high moral ground. You haven't got the evidence.

    I haven't got a clue why you post on the Guardian site. You offer nothing of interest.

    Take your fucking opera glasses, your pennies that you toss to the poor you step over in the street, and your fucking bourgeois inanities and stick them up your virgin arse.

    And go ahead, kiz, and defend your fellow socialist feminist...

    Still, as long as agree about the right time to take tea, and that a jaffa cake is a biscuit.

    You guys, you make me fucking laugh.

  93. Monkeyfish

    I very much doubt you have given away as much as I have - I've been working on charities since I was in my late twenties, long before I had real access to the Brussels elitist scene.

    And another thing - you're a self-pitying whining miserable excuse of a man carrying a chip the size of the rain-forest.

    My mother's cousin came out of Buchenwald concentration camp and never carried on like you do.

    My Jewish boyfriend's father had his concentration camp number tatooed on his arm (yes Auschwitz at 14 - lost all his family) and I've never known him to carry on like you.

    Any idea why? I'll tell you why - they were real men.

    You get over yourself you big nancy.

  94. Fuckin hell Hank..great minds, eh?

    I'm off to bed anyway. Leave you slug it out with Unity Mitford or whatever her real name is.

    Glad to see you're back in the virtual interweb world of wonder anyhow.

  95. I reckon you're really a transvestite post office clerk living in a bedsit in Nuneaton with 15 cats, every album Barry Manilow ever cranked out and a shelf full of prozac.

    Get over yourself you big fuckin phoney.

  96. And it's one all in the Charity Shield, with three minutes of extra time to play...

  97. phony even..."phoney"..blah..although give us a call if you ever get your head straight and I'll tell you where you can shove it.

  98. Fuck me, I seem to have stumbled into an episode of “prove-yourself-more-right-on-in-some-vague-way-than-the-other-bugger”. Is this a typical Saturday night on Untrusted now?

    I’ll see your Turandot and your X-factor and raise you the Manic Street Preachers:

    The Masses Against The Classes

    Quotes from Noam Chomsky and one of today’s birthday boys - what more could you ask for?

  99. Come on people - this is beginning to resemble a farce. I mean one upping each other on whose the most righteous? For fucks sake give the rest of us a break.

  100. "I've been working on charities since I was in my late twenties..."

    Working for charities or working on charities? Big difference. What exactly is it that you do, Miss Golightly?

    "My mother's cousin..." - blahblahblah -so what? What's that got to do with you, what you've acheived or suffered?

    "My Jewish boyfriend's father..." - again, that's not you, Bru.

    What the fuck have you done? What is it that you do?

    My grandad died of emphysema at 64, got "retired" at 58 without a pension or compensation, lived in fucking poverty for the last 6 years of his life, just waiting to die, having worked in the docks for 50 years. He died without a penny to his name.

    He was the fourth of four brothers. He was lucky enough to have been born in 1905 so too young to have served in the "Great War". His three brothers died on the Western Front.

    So take your fucking "real men" shit elsewhere, Bru. I cannot begin to tell you how much I despise you, you stuck up bitch.

    So what's your fucking point?

  101. "Is this a typical Saturday night on Untrusted now?"

    Not really, Andy. It's usually Friday.

    "I mean one upping each other on whose the most righteous?"

    Come on Sheff, you've been around cif long enough by now...

  102. Hi martillo and sheff:

    Some voices of sanity still remain, I’m glad to see.

    Have I missed much in the wonderful world of online discussion in the past month?

  103. Anyway, can't think of any abuse for anyone so I think I'll go to bed.

    Glad to see you're ok Hank.

  104. Hi andy - Good to see you back. what've you been up to?

    Bru - I don't think raising the holocaust in this context will help your case.

    Hank/Monkeyfish - I can guess what you're thinking. Please don't do it!!

  105. I'm a voice of sanity Andy. That's it: we're really fucked.

  106. I mean I'm a voice of sanity Andy??? Etcetera.

  107. martillo
    I mean I'm a voice of sanity Andy???
    Everything's relative so I'm told. So your voice will do fine.

  108. sheff: I’ve been spending my time on this funny thing called “Real Life” which I’d kind of lost touch with for a while.

    It’s hard to believe, but there are actually people out there for whom the world doesn’t revolve round the latest opinion piece on Cif.

    martillo: I'm a voice of sanity Andy???

    I’m surprised myself, but sometimes we find sanity in the strangest places…

    (knew it wouldn’t be long before I started throwing smart-arse cracks around)

  109. Yeah Ok, I'll retire gracefully now, dignity fully intact as ever. One thing though..as to who struck the first blow..I refer you to today's WDYTRFD thread and a gauntlet chucked by Brussels's answer to Margot Leadbetter.

    Did you really think nobody was gonna pick it up? Or did you think it was some sort of knockdown argument you'd delivered? For a start, every survey ever conducted going back decades confirms: the lower your income..the more your likely to give proportionally to charity...what the fuck were you thinking?

    "The widow's mite"..it's in the friggin Bible FFS.

  110. "Glad to see you're ok Hank."

    You taka da piss, martillo? I've been down to the home of football today and seen my boys robbed of what we were due by a 93rd minute goal...Grrr.

    What am I thinking, sheff? I'm a bit bemused myself about how to respond to Bru's Holocaust hand. Any ideas?

    I think bru has lost it anyway tonight, daft old Zionist zealot.

    I bet most of her coats are made from the hides of slaughtered Palestinians.

  111. It's been a pleasant evening Andy - we've been reminiscing over the thrills and spills of the health service in Glasgow and i've been toasting Guy Fawkes and mourning his failure to blow up the H of C which is why I'm quite well oiled now.

    cif trundles on as per - but with a new pagination system for the comments which is a bit eccentric and annoys people by losing their posts which added to the moderation has made it all a bit more anarchic.

  112. Hank

    You know what I mean. Bru left you with an open goal unfortunately and I thought you might find it irresistable.

  113. Hank: you may be well versed in socialist rhetoric and football stories, but you clearly have much to learn about fashion.

    Palestinian hide coats are so last year. With the Commonwealth Games taking place in Dehli next year, my tip for the coming season is pure Indian, darling.

    sheff: it’s good to see that in this funny old world, there is still much that we can rely on to remain constant - Untrusted posters having a pop at each other for reasons which the rest of us can’t quite understand, and changes to the Cif format being decried as the fall of Rome by embittered old timers (present company excepted, of course).

    Time to call it a night - I’ll try not to leave it so long until my next visit.

  114. Hey sheff - bru's left me a lot of open goals but I'm too young and too proud.

    Montana - thanx for the "too hard" editorial, sweetheart (-;