17 October 2009

Daily Chat 17/10/09

Cyrus the Great released the Jews from their exile in Babylon in 539 BC.  Charles II sold Dunkirk to France for £40,000 in 1662.  In 1814, a vat at the Meux and Company Brewery in Tottenham Court Road ruptured, causing other vats to rupture and spilling 323,000 gallons of beer into the streets of London.

Born today:  Rita Hayworth (1918-1987) and David St. Hubbins, er Michael McKean (1947).

It is Diwali.


  1. Morning all. Would just like to confirm that I like both football and cricket.

  2. Morning to you, Philippa. I think I like cricket as an idea, but don't have the stamina to watch it for very long. Anyone know how to deal with a bitch on heat?

  3. Also, thanks LordS for the tip on pdf publishing. I think it's working...


  4. Hank - PT makes a stab at explaining CT to the masses. It's quite funny...

  5. +1 for cricket. No better sport IMHO. Football's all right, but I'm too middle class to properly support a team.

    That Manchester Wanderers lot are OK, though. Or do I mean Liverpool City?

  6. Cyrus The Great

    Is it just me or is Cyrus so NOT the name of someone great? It's like Nigel the Impaler, or Alison the Destroyer. It just not ... right.

    Anyway, that's my thought for the day. Yesterday I got the (probably) good news that my job is not going to be offshored to India, and instead some of the jobs we offshored to India are coming back (bwa-ha-ha!!) and to top it all off I won £25 on the premium bonds (don't worry, it won't change me) so I'm off to spend it on beer and sushi.

  7. In 1814, a vat at the Meux and Company Brewery in Tottenham Court Road ruptured, causing other vats to rupture and spilling 323,000 gallons of beer into the streets of London.

    God damn!

    I always said I was born too late, I just didn't realise until today just how late ;-(

  8. Oh dear. Have posted on Andrew Brown's blog and MAM has shown up. I think he's having a go at me after our last blow-up, but I can't quite understand what he's saying...

  9. 9 inspiring examples of women's climate activism, over on the FWord:

  10. (shuffles feet)

    Room for another bourgeois hypocrite (possibly)?

    I arrived here for relief after Moeran accused me of a 'lack of humanity' yesterday AM, and as a Manchester City fan born in Manchester I thought I could say hello...


  11. "Anyone know how to deal with a bitch on heat?"

    Chance would be a fine thing, martillo.

    Haven't the stomach for Polly today, Philippa. Haven't the stomach for much actually but will be applying the tried and tested "hair of the dog" approach in a bit ahead of the footie.

    Make yourself at home, Peter. Always room for one more bourgeois hypocrite (-;

    Have a good weekend all.

  12. Can someone please tell me why I had to be born in a country where people think it's more interesting to watch cars go around in a circle (well, oval) for several hours than to watch ten men kicking a ball around, trying to kick it into a net?

  13. Montana - we call that the M25. Anyway, Sunderland are 1 up against Liverpool due to a deflection off a balloon. A balloon...

    And I had a quid on villa to beat chelsea, so I'm quite happy at the minute.

    hello Peter!

  14. Anyway, Sunderland are 1 up against Liverpool due to a deflection off a balloon.

    Hang on, isn't that one of those You Are The Referee questions?

  15. ... for several hours than to watch ten men kicking a ball around, trying to kick it into a net?

    I know you're a Bolton fan, Montana, but there's no need to assume the default position of having had one man sent off already ;-)

  16. LordS - heh heh - someone on clockwatch has already confirmed that it shouldn't have stood. Refs are dropping like flies at the minute...

  17. Thought as much, Philippa. I bet Rafa is going a shade of red unseen outside of a Duluxe colour chart.

  18. LordS -- ten men trying to kick the ball into the net and one trying to keep it out, n'est ce pas?

  19. I'll let you have that one, Montana ;-)

    Of course, if you play for Sunderland it's ten men and a balloon.

    Though I hear Manchester City have just bid 40 million for the balloon.

    (Sorry, Peter)

  20. ay ay LordS - from clockwatch: "Steve Bruce and Rafa Benitez are having a real slanging match. It kicked off to such an extent that the fourth official had to intervene, with Benitez goading Bruce by giving him Harry Enfield-style 'calm down gestures'. If Liverpool lose this, Rafa's press conference is going to be a gem."
    Might have to head for the pub to try to see that (before Forest v Toon, on which I have another little flutter - that's what comes of assuming that bet365's promise to screen the England match live would actaully apply to me. sigh...)

  21. We had our own balloon problem at Sheffield United in the cup a while back. If Sheikh Mansour wants to buy every balloon in the world to prevent that happening again, then that's up to him...

    Anyway, I'm just waiting for the whole thing to go spectacularly wrong. That's what 40 years of supporting City does to you.

  22. Wonderful stuff. I'll be watching MOTD tonight, I can hardly wait!

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  25. Seems as though it's the goalkeeper's responsibility to clear his own area of stray objects. So as Reina didn't bother removing the rather large, heavy RED balloon/beach-ball that some scouser chucked on the pitch, Liverpool have been hoisted, petarded, royally fucked by their own actions.

    btw, I watched the game and it could have been 3-0 or 4-0 to Sunderland. A well deserved win for the Black Cats with a whopping 'big team losing' 7 mins of added time! Much the better side won on the day.

  26. Yeah well..my knowledge of quantum gravity isn't exactly state of the art but my physics is sufficiently adequate to state categorically: Footballs don't get deflected by balloons...not to any remotely significant extent anyway. Presumably the balloon was effectively stationary and had a mass of a gram or so. It could not affect the momentum of a 450g football travelling at about 25m/s...that's just bollocks.

    However, I'm only too well aware of the depths to which Liverpool fans will stoop to explain the Red Shite's inadequacies. "Deflected off a balloon" really is scraping the barrel, though. They'd be better off trying a gypsy's curse, bad karma or inauspicious feng shui in the away dressing room. Pathetic.

  27. Oh..."heavy beach ball" was it? Still a bit iffy.

  28. Heavy beach balls are, to the average Liverpool fan, what the patriarchy is to Bidisha.

  29. It's pure comedy, monkeyfish - shot from Bent, hits beach-ball, and I think Johnson's shin too, while Reina sort of lunges for the beachball as the real ball goes past him on the other side.

  30. "You don't understand! I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I could've been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am. Let's face it..it was a heavy beach ball."

  31. I'm looking forward to seeing the beachball - it was funny enough listening to Graham Poll on the radio just now being incredibly, pompously serious about it.

    Ours was funny too; one of our defenders cleared the balloon rather than the ball after a cross, and Sheffield United went one up. City fans, noted for gallows humour which is all we get, laughed as much as anyone.

  32. I hear that Benitez pulled a gun on the ref in the changing rooms afterwards and shouted:

    'You think I'm fucking around here? Mark it zero!'

    (It was a league game, after all.)

  33. PeterJackson

    Welcome to the UT. Are you another Sheffielder? - there are a few of us on here.

    Can we talk about rugby? (or as His Grace, Lord Scorpio would call it 'rugger') - a proper manly sport as opposed to that effete footie game

  34. @Sheffpixie

    No, I'm from Eccles rather than Ecclesall - I spent quite a lot of time in Sheffield in the late 70s, though, staying at an ashram in Crookes with some friends. Always liked the place.

    As for rugby, I was brought up on League, as my dad was an amateur player. Did play Union at University, though, until I was beaten up during an away game at Bolton Tech.

  35. For anyone who can't wait until MOTD

    Balloon 1-0 Liverpool

    You have to feel sorry for the kid pictured thunping the ball onto the pitch though. He's going to be pilloried for it. Let's hope a bit of common sense prevails up there in scouseland.

  36. My Lord:

    In response, here's the Sheffield balloon incident.


  37. I love that beach ball...I can say quite categorically, that is my favourite beach ball ever. There isn't another beach ball that comes close in my affections.

  38. Evening all!

    Sod that beachball for a game of soldiers.

    Are you an Everton supporter MF?

    Anyhoo - time to browse CiF for a bit.

  39. Hi all,

    Haven't read anything yet but am feeling like listening to ooooold music.

    Black is black".

    Baby Blue".

    And the one that puts the rest to shame: Layla

  40. Sheff - we can certainly talk about rugger. Good day for Munster and Leinster but not so good for Ulster. Last time I looked Quins were winning, the cheating bastards.

    Oh, here's another choon: Bell Bottom Blues.

  41. Choon time? Oh well, if you absolutely insist.

    I had a few lucky strikes in the charity shop round up to day. Picked a few CDs that I used to have back in the day but sold when I as a bit short of cash.

    Containing such favourites as ....

    Crash - The Primitives which is, in my humble opinion, one of the most perfect pop songs every written. This is the closest version to the single that I can find on YouTube

    The Future's So Bright - Timbuk 3 and as I recall I had quite a thing for Barbara K back in 1986. Best thing about it, you could be a band with a couple of guitars and a boom box.

  42. Moving on a few years: The Prophet's Song.

    And one from the same album that reminds me of my sainted grandmother: '39.

  43. "Best thing about it, you could be a band with a couple of guitars and a boom box."

    ... whereas these days all you need is a puter, acne and no social life. :o)

  44. ... and talking of computers and acne I also picked up the Chemical Brothers Singles 93-03 CD with the extra mixes disc.

    Alive Alone

  45. The Prmitives! Nice one, LordS. That still pops up quite regularly on digital rock radio here in Denmark. No idea why - good song I suppose.

  46. M'Lord - not quite sure I can agree with your assessment of your first selection, but I quite like the second.

    As long as we're in that era, how about One Night in Bangkok? I have friends who are sure they've survived at least two or three....

  47. That one takes me back, and I will avoid making any awful jokes about being given (Murray) Head.

    "the queens we use would not excite you"

    I dunno, depends on how much I've been drinking ;-)

  48. LordS - a lady wouldn't of course understand your allusion.

    Err ... how about some Talking Heads?

  49. Just saw this...

    #I would like to propose that viewers boycott the edition of Question Time featuring the spokesperson for the racist british national party scheduled for October 22nd 2009. I further suggest that the unions involved refuse to undertake their duties on that programme on the grounds that the bnp is a racist, homophobic, anti-democratic organisation that is antithetical to the union movement. I refuse to use capital letters for the odious bnp since it represents nothing to do with Britain, the Nation or a political Party as sanely understood. There is a pressing need for free-thinking newspapers to highlight the falsehoods, obfuscations and gangster tendencies of the bnp and all racist groups of its ilk and it is pressingly urgent that, especially via The Guardian, the real consequences of the racist bnp are exposed to the full weight of political opprobrium. Whatever this channel of mutual back-slapping called 'what do you want to talk about' has become there are few more pressing issues for consideration right now than the fast-growing legitimisation of racism and fascism in our mainstream media.

    We really need this to be an urgent priority in all discussions before and immediately after October 22nd.#

    Sorry...just don't get this. The fuckin irony of a comment like this on 'comment is free'...bollocks. The BNP should have a voice..and be rejected. Banning them gives them more credibility than they could ever hope to amass through actually being forced to assert their bullshit out loud..fuckin ridiculous.

    Look what banning did for Sigue Sigue Sputnik...it gives a certain cache to the truly lame. And as for being "antithetical to the union movement", does that mean the Tories and NuLab get the same treatment?

    It's another case of liberal elitism treating the public with mind-blowing condescension..."would you want your wife or servants to read it?"

    No fuckin wonder the BNP can appeal to the working class when they're treated as mindless, malleable zombies by liberal idiots who seem to think they need to be protected from themselves.

  50. Ooooh! Once In A Lifetime! Love Talking Heads but love that one in particular!

    To continue a theme, how about some Tears For Fears (as featured in Donnie Darko)

    Loved Wreckless Eric, sherf. My bruv still has all those early Stiff 7 inch singles ... must be worth a bloody fortune now.

  51. Look what banning did for Sigue Sigue Sputnik...it gives a certain cache to the truly lame.

    Comment of the century!

  52. MF - a lot of the anti-fash are still "no platform" when it comes to the BNP. Harks back to the old ANL days I expect.

    Until they were elected in the Euros I was the same, but now they have formal positions, I think it is only right that they should be given a platform. (Preferably one with a big gallows and a hatch :p, but that's just me...). They need to be given the same public scrutiny as anyone else, and you can't do that if you don't let them speak.

    One thing about them is that they are not used to play in the big boys' playground and as a result I expect to see Griffin waffle his way painfully through stuff on Thursday, followed by announcements on Friday that it is all a LibLabCon conspiracy against them and they have all been nasty to them and it's not fair and they are going to tell their mums. Oh, not forgetting: Can you send more money NOW! Because we need to fight the CONSPIRATORS who are OUT TO GET US!!

    I wonder how much he screwed out of the party faithful for his Big Fight against the Human Rights Commission? Still, it will pay for a new extension on his holiday home in Croatia.

    The UAF don't call him Gri££in for nothing ;o)

  53. LordS - missed your Chemical Bros link the first time around - great stuff! What's with the yellow bits on some of the bees?

    MF - agree wholeheartedly but am too tired at the mo to get into the subject. Let the bastards hang themselves in the full glare of publicity.

  54. Scherfig - nice one, and love the fact they've achieved the thing they're contemptuous of. Bit like this one in an oblique way....

  55. God, that is a fucking frightening video, LordS. Not only is the song horrible (sorry, not a TfF fan!) but the teacher is some sort of primaeval nightmare.

  56. LOL. A clear case of second album syndrome if you ask me. The first TFF was awesome, a wonderful antidote to 1980s bouncy synthpop.

    But the follow up was .... lacking.

    The teacher is Drew Barrymore. So you got that one right ;-)

  57. It will be interesting to see if Griffin gets any muted applause at any stage for anything he says. I can't get the programme here, but I'm guessing that the few BNP supporters in the audience (and statistically there's bound to be a few) will be too ashamed to openly support Griffin's views (if he honestly expresses them, of course). And why should they be ashamed, I hear you ask? Well, I don't know really - the BNP are a democratic party with open transparent policies and can intellectually defend their positions, right?

    Maybe he'll bring the house down.

  58. Griffin will get all he needs just trying to get into the studio as a blockade is being planned.

    There will be lots of shouting and threats and a bit of violence from the left, Griffin will do his best to look under threat even if he isn't and if his performance on QT is less than stellar he'll just point to the baying mob outside and blames them.

    Some people seem intent on doing the BNP's work for them.

  59. Scherfig - I have a couple of friends who I suspect to be closet BNP future voters. It's not because they're racist but because they are anti-immigration - in its present form.

    I think that if they heard a candid view of what the BNP are really about that they would never vote for them. But if the BNP are suppressed, they won't get that chance. So let the bastards fly their freak flag.

    Anyway ... *yawn* ... off to bed now! Night all.

  60. Excellent, thauma, old favorites of mine - saw old Ian (RIP) topple drunkenly off the stage in Belfast back in the day. Great stuff - one of my faves (bonus Dr Feelgood on guitar here):

    sweet gene vincent

  61. The problem is they won't reveal their real agenda in public. As he said to the White Supremacist meeting in the states, the secret is to change your rhetoric without changing your policies. Start using words like "immigration" "security" "identity" instead of the previous nazi lexicon, and people will buy into it. Sell a new message and people lap it up. But keep the old values of a White Britain carefully secreted in the obscure bits of their manifesto.

    Still, Griffin made a good start at being a prat a couple of times so far - first of all with his claim that 20 white people were turned away from a Greater Manchester Fire Service recruitment evening because they were only recruiting "ethnics" - so far nobody, not even the Daily Hate-Mail, has managed to find any one of those people. Secondly the sinking of the immigrant boats thing. Anyone with half a brain will abhor that kind of language.

    Let him talk, challenge him, call him on his bollocks and watch the support seep away. They have been coming last in local elections since the Euros. There is no groundswell of support any more, no matter how well they deploy the same 10 people to populate internet boards and phone in to talk radio...

  62. Well I just can't get over the irony of the notion that the way to treat a repressive, anti-democratic, fascist organisation is to repress their right to express their views...that's fuckin hypocritical madness.

    If the proper response to an organisation which would ban free speech is to oppose their right to express themselves then why isn't..

    ...the right response to white on black racist violence, black on white racist violence?

    ...the answer to misogyny, misandry?

    Not exactly religious myself, but isn't this eye for an eye stuff just a little old testament? What happened to turning the other the other cheek etc?..I thought that was the 'liberal way'..pretty much the sine qua non of the would be progressives in fact.

    Ooops...just realised...sorry if I came over as antisemitic with the use of the phrase "just a little old testament"...seems by the current progressive logic, I'd be inviting a Jewish backlash...maybe a visit from Mossad or something.

  63. BB

    #The problem is they won't reveal their real agenda in public.#

    Who does? Me..you..the Tories..Tony Blair? You find it a problem that a defendant hasn't put his hands up and declared "it's a fair cop guv, you've got me bang to rights"?

    We let the BNP have its day in court...days even..what are these people afraid of?..that they're gonna win us all over with the force of their logic?

    I'd let Griffin on Question Time, Have I got News For You, It's a Knockout, Judge Judy..the lot. How long before the cunt implodes under the weight of his own bullshit? They need to be exposed, ridiculed, laughed at and hung out to dry...you can't do that by keeping them locked in the attic like raving nutters..they always end up burning the house down that way..I've read the book.

  64. As I said earlier, before they had elected members I was a "no platformer", but now they are in the public gaze, it is bloody silly trying to keep them quiet.

    So I am with you on most of that. Give em enough rope to hang themselves with.

  65. Surely a visit from Mossad is not such a bad thing if it is Ziva?

  66. Well, if it's 80s music we're doing tonight:

    I getburning sensations when I listen to this one. And there's something electric about this.

    As for the BNP and the capability of the British working class to see through their horseshit -- I sincerely hope that they're smarter than their American cousins. The white American working class (and, perversely, increasing numbers of non-white working class Americans) are still somewhat in the thrall of right-wing propaganda about 'illegal' immigration.

    Jobs that used to be well-paid unionised jobs are now poorly-paid, non-union jobs filled largely by undocumented workers from Mexico and Central America. The WWC who used to hold those union jobs are angry with the immigrants. They believe the right-wing scum who scream about getting tough on immigration, even though the right-wing scum are the very people who brought the situation about, by union-busting and turning a blind eye to the tide of people coming across the southern border.

    Occasionally, they'll raid a packing plant or a chicken farm, round up a couple hundred undocumented Mexican men and repatriate them -- leaving behind wives and children with no means of support except welfare. That means that undocumented Mexican women end up on welfare, creating yet another screaming point for the RWS and focal point for anger for the WWC taxpayers.

    Most WWC Americans haven't yet figured out that, if the right-wingers really wanted to do something about 'illegal' immigration, they'd be going after the companies that hire the undocumented workers, not the workers, themselves.

  67. This comment has been removed by the author.

  68. #Most WWC Americans haven't yet figured out that, if the right-wingers really wanted to do something about 'illegal' immigration, they'd be going after the companies that hire the undocumented workers, not the workers, themselves.#

    You saying fascist organisations are a degenerate reaction to the immiserating effects of capitalism? Couldn't agree more.

    We're all socialists now.

    Quick..down the pub...closing time soon..then the revolution really kicks off.

  69. Oooh Montana! That Eddy Grant choon reminded me of another classic from the same era.

    Now that we found love, what are we gonna do with it?

  70. MF - mine's a vodka and diet coke, ta...

  71. We're all socialists now.

    I've been one for quite some time, dear. :-)

  72. Burning Sensations are a new one on me, Montana. I don't think they made it outside of the US, or at least not as far as the UK.

    Was this the eighties? Or the late seventies?

    I Know What Boys Like - The Waitresses

    The singer, Patty Donahue, is dead now. Smoked herself to death basically ;-(

  73. Montanna thats a brilliant explanation of the situation!

    The answer to these problems is strong unions and decent pay and conditions for ALL workers.

  74. Agree with Monkeyfish and BB about the bnp, provided that their ideas are opposed effectively (as Montana did above). 'No platform' is the traditional left response to fascism but it does have the drawback that you cannot really oppose their views if people are not supposed to know what they are.

    Otherwise there is a danger that some people will be taken in (remember how 'popular' Alf Garnet became?).

  75. BB - Royal Mail are really misjudging the mood here, they are saying -
    "Royal Mail said the recruitment was in line with employment law - adding that the recruitment drive was not about bringing in workers to do the work of striking staff, but to ensure there were enough staff to clear any backlogs as well as tackle the seasonal increase in mail volume."

    And the backlogs will be created by? Oh yes srikes! so not scabs then Yeah right!

    They also say-
    "We are continuing to urge the union to halt its appalling and unjustified attack on customers."

    Perhaps if Royal Mail halted their "appalling and unjustified attack on workers?

    what is a scab?