05 October 2009

Daily Chat 05/10/09

Italy, Spain, Portugal and Poland didn't have a 5 October, 1582, due to adopting the Gregorian calendar.  Christianity was disestablished in France in 1793.  In 1877, Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce gave up his 3 month struggle to lead his people to Canada to avoid having to settle on reservation lands being forced upon them by the US government.  The Jarrow March set off for London in 1936.  The first episode of Monty Python's Flying Circus was aired in 1969.

Born today:  Denis Diderot (1713-1784), Robert Goddard (1882-1945), Donald Pleasence (1919-1995), Vacl√°v Havel (1936), Brian Connolly (1945-1997), Bob Geldof (1951), Clive Barker (1952), Mario Lemieux and Patrick Roy (1965), Kate Winslet (1975).

It is Republic Day in Portugal.


  1. Chief Joseph's surrender statement, possibly the most famous words uttered by a Native American:

    Tell General Howard I know his heart. What he told me before, I have it in my heart. I am tired of fighting. Our chiefs are killed; Looking Glass is dead, Too-hul-hul-sote is dead. The old men are all dead. It is the young men who say yes or no. He who led on the young men is dead. It is cold, and we have no blankets; the little children are freezing to death. My people, some of them, have run away to the hills, and have no blankets, no food. No one knows where they are—perhaps freezing to death. I want to have time to look for my children, and see how many of them I can find. Maybe I shall find them among the dead. Hear me, my chiefs! I am tired; my heart is sick and sad. From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.

    Other comments on today's items:

    I didn't know until tonight that the Jarrow March had stopped in Market Harborough. I have my reasons for being excited about that.

    Absolutely the best song from my junior high days.

    And for all the vacuous, toffee-nosed, malodorous perverts out there...

  2. The Mounties of course wore red coats, a benefit of which was that Indians could see them and know they were safe in Canada - the 'grandmother's country', Victoria's realm.

    There was a lovely exchange between the Lakota Black Elk and Victoria when she was visited by Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show in Windsor - 'If you were my people I wouldn't let them take you about like this'.

  3. Happy Birthday Vaclav Havel - I do wish you could become EU President.

    From your fan base in Brussels.

  4. What has ultima been banned for exactly?

    I loathe the woman to an unhealthy degree, but banning seems pointless, as it always is. She can just make a new moniker. It makes the Graun look a tad petty,she'll prob tell her radical chums that she's now a martyr. They could have given her a month ban like they gave me. The finality of the bans leaves a bitter taste in the mouth whilst also failing in its objectives as they can get a new moniker. Short term bans (not premod, the mods get wound up by premod as they have to read it all), but short term bans would be much smarter from the Graun.

  5. Jay, I think it was a case of her pushing her "all Brits are paedopholes" line too far, in the Barbara Ellen thread yesterdy, by stating that some of the BTL commentators should be reported to Interpol.

    If this is the case, it does seem a bit of an odd decision, as she's used the main argument quite a bit lately & it's only been commetns that have taken her to task for it that have been modded.

    As I said yesterday, I hold a suspiscion thta she'll be back.

  6. Oh dear. That is pretty wild even by her standards. Tho sort of follows on from her recent comment that the graun should get some psychiatrists to monitor the boards and give help to some posters clearly in need. I think the irony was completely lost on her.

  7. Hank/LordS (with apologies to everyone else for continuing a discussion from yesterday, but I wasn't around)

    Clare Grogan was always my most tenuous claim to fame: my Dad used to work with her sister!

  8. Clare Grogan was brilliant in Gregory's Girl. I love that film. My all time favourite film ever is Local Hero, though - John Gordon Sinclair, who played Gregory, has a bizarre cameo role in that as the mad rider of the moped that almost runs the two oil guys over every time they leave the hotel (and who turns out to be the drummer in the punk band).

    The final scene of that film always brings a tear to my eye and a lump to my throat.

  9. Dotterel My ex-girlfriend's father used to work with Irvine Welsh. As he used to tell it, it was he who persuaded Welsh to give up work and go and write Trainspotting.

  10. Grogan is a very fine actress (am too old to say actor) - she was absolutely superb in the 'Miss Lovely Girl' episode of Father Ted.

    Forsyth's films are sneered at in Scotland cos he chose to make entertaining films rather than working-class-hero stuff about injecting heroin up a close - I think he's brilliant.

    I can't mind any of ultima's posts - she really suggested that Cif posters need medical help? Damn her eyes, I will report her to the law firm of Berchmans and Berchmans.

  11. Lord S, I am in a street scene in Wedding Belles clutching a beer glass and scratching my head. The scene was filmed outside a Leith pub with rings of security all round, what a mad evening that was.

    Film was shite alas.

  12. Edwin

    Ultima's posts are legend. She referred to Britain as the Paedo Isles a while ago. She accuses any woman who disagrees with her of being a man. She spouts bile and abuse at people, then accuses them of being bullies if they respond. Everything that ever went wrong in the universe is the fault of the Patriarchy. In short, she is a classic. As the French would say, if she didn't exist, you would need to invent her.

  13. BB - about as fine a description as I've seen.

  14. Damn and I've missed her - I always leave parties at the wrong time. And I have just the person to fix her up with on a blind date!

  15. Edwin
    And I have just the person to fix her up with on a blind date!

    God! you must really hate them!

  16. Edwin Moore


  17. monkeyfish many thanks for that - I know Tom Gallacher's book but have never come across this site (love the motto) and Max Dunbar is also new to me, great, thanks.

  18. Evening all.
    On the serious side tonight:
    ** Just a polite reminder for any interested readers that Radio 4 is running a prog on female sex abusers at 8.

    And I have to have a quick rant: those posts on Waddya last night made me physically wretch. If they were intended to be funny, then I'm glad my sense of humour bypass was fully operational on that occasion.

    On a lighter note, a blind date for a certain commenter, Edwin? Do tell ..

  19. Which posts were they, MsChin? I made a few posts there myself, hope I didn't offend?

  20. It wasn't the waddya thread it was the Thompson thread...

  21. Kiz is absolutely right - it was posts on the Thompson thread, not Waddya that offended me and a whole lot of other folk there. My apols for misleading info there.

  22. Ah, fair 'nuff. I didn't see that thread until this morning by which time the mods had done their job.

  23. Good Brooker thread today.

    I have 6 books which I've bought in the last two months unread on the coffee table, and a Steigg Larsson book arrived in the post today, together with one on the history of colonialism in Latin America.

    The unlistened to CDs are also piling up - ordered Nick Drake on a whim and really can't be arsed to listen to it.

    And a friend returned the boxsets of the first five series of the Sopranos last week, which I lent to her a year ago and which she has been casting ever more baleful glances at because she's been too busy/not interested enough to watch any of them.

    And then I bought Genet's Thief's Journal in a secondhand bookshop at the weekend just because I remember reading Orwell referencing it when I were but a lad.

    Still no chance I'll be buying any Bergman though.

  24. Hank - the Sopranos is the only thing I've watched in the past 6 years or so and it's brilliant.

    Bergman's good too though. Recommend breaking down and watching something.

    I've read nearly all of my books but I must admit that lately I've been going for very light reading. Brain too fried from work for anything too serious. So I've just started Val McDermid's latest.

    Scherfig will appreciate that I read a John Crace digested read of McDermid a few months ago and now I can't really take it seriously any more. Her books are becoming more and more stilted and repetitive as Crace so ably pointed out.

  25. thauma, have you tried Carl Hiaasen? Very entertaining stuff.

  26. Hank
    You can send them to me - I'll definitely read the Genet and watch the Sopranos as I've not read it/seen them. Just bought Chris Cleave's latest today - "The Other Hand" - so thats 3 books on the go at the moment.

    I do agree with Brooker about stuff, although in my case its shoes, bags and jackets, oh and gizmos - love them.

    MsC - I heard that prog - made very grim listening but better we are aware and talking about it than refusing to acknowledge women can be and are, offenders. I just hope HMG doesn't go bonkers with more legislation on the back of the revelations.

  27. Scherfig - yes, but I find that he's written the same book about 10 times. The first two or three were entertaining, but then I realised that it's basically the same plot with the same characters.

  28. Thauma - sorry, won't be doing the Bergman thing. I thought she was aesthetically pleasing but wooden in Casablanca. Like a carved ornament you might bring back as a souvenir from holiday. And you only ever do that once, no?

    Sorry sheff, you're not having any of them. I love the Sopranos, can watch it repeatedly, out of sequence, standing on my head, whatever. Best programme ever made for me, other than The Simpsons. And Mary Mungo and Midge.

  29. True enough, thauma, but you gotta love the Florida ex-governor living off roadkill out in the swamps.

  30. ... ordered Nick Drake on a whim and really can't be arsed to listen to it.

    Drake was amazing but having said that his back catalogue has been much raided over the last ten years by adverts and TV show incidentals.

    I think this one was on a recent ad for example

    You've probably heard it all but don't know it!

  31. Hank - ha ha, thought you meant Ingmar Bergman! Or is this a wind-up that I'm too slow to spot?

  32. Scherf - yeah, it was funny the first time!

  33. Incidentally, I'm on page 4 of the comments on the Brooker thread. Lots of references to Crime and Punishment and The Brothers Karamazov. Nobody's mentioned The Idiot yet, which I read when I was about 18 and have used a guide to life ever since.

  34. Hank, you could go back on Cif as PinceMyshkin - a one-time appearance like the Simpson characters.

  35. "Nobody's mentioned The Idiot yet"

    Not struck with it. Omits the word useful. This sums it up nicely...


    Crime and Punishment's a good laugh mind. Personally, I'd have gone for the failsafe "Old cow was doin me fuckin head in...". Would've saved a lot of self-absorbed hand wringing tedium. Might have even made it to the X Box...Rascally emaciated students wacking old babushkas in a twilight world of depravity. Nice.

  36. Someone on the Blackmore thread posted this
    Amusing ourselves to death

    So true.

  37. scherf - Myshkin was an interesting "hero", like a forerunner of Rain Man or Forrest Gump, but better connected.

    Hank Scorpio was of course a one-off Simpsons character so can see the logic but I'm genuinely not interested in doing so any more. It's been 3 or 4 weeks since I last posted on Cif, and nothing I've read on there has provoked me into returning.

    I think we all have a shelf life on Cif, maybe 12-18 months before we feel that we've seen all the blogs and all the debates so often that there really is no point anymore.

    I'm done with it. And, having done with it, I feel a lot more relaxed. Genuinely. Apart from last night when I had a pop at kiz. Which was wrong obviously.

    But then one of my least unwatched DVDs is Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf. I like a good drink-fuelled argument!

  38. Hank, I asked Cif to delete my profile and comments nearly two weeks ago, and they still haven't done it. Sent them another mail today. It really does get worse and worse.

  39. This comment has been removed by the author.

  40. Whoops

    "Myshkin was an interesting "hero", like a forerunner of Rain Man or Forrest Gump, but better connected."

    Yeah, but let's face it, if he was around today, Bunting would write a series of articles about him praising the 'genius of his simplicity' or his 'spiritual authenticity'; no doubt thinking that such a wonderful self-contained philosophy would be just the thing for her Latvian cleaner or Congolese gardner.

    Something to keep the serfs smiling and peaceable.

  41. I'm sure Radical Chick would appreciate him though.

  42. @sheff - Blackmore's thread is a good one, and most of the posts, inc yours, back up her viewpoint that everything now needs to be measured. Education is no longer seen as a good thing in itself, but only as a means to an end.

    I started a Philosophy course at an FE college a couple of years ago just because I was interested in it. I was told by the tutor that I would be expected to hand in essays every two weeks which would be assessed to see if I was eligible to continue into later terms. I said that I was there to learn, discuss and debate with the other students, and wasn't really bothered about getting an A level at the end. I added that I had an MA in politics.

    I was told that I was over-qualified and clearly not committed to their program. I forfeited the first term's fees (about £150) and walked away.

    As Oscar Wilde said, a cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. And that's where we are now.

    A meretricious philistine country.

    @Scherfig - don't know whether you saw my post last night but I was trawling the list of contributors, and MrPB has been removed but his blog archive is still there if you put "frankfisher" in the address bar. Am waiting for pikey to let me know how he feels about this.

    Strangely, I've never had any problems with the mods deleting my profile and comments. Again and again.

  43. "Strangely, I've never had any problems with the mods deleting my profile and comments. Again and again."

    Nah, me neither. It just rankles a bit now Polly's started using some of my best quotes.

  44. Your invite to Tuscany's sure to be in the post, mf.

  45. Can't wait. Might suggest a joint project.."Living on Benefits" by P.Toynbee and M.Fish...should see me through the recession. I lose my job, sign on and email her a daily 'Misery Diary' and she can empathise and convey the true despair, loss of self -respect and grinding humiliation in a weekly column; eventually condensed into a classic portrait of Modern Britain. Obviously, I'd need a legendary bourgeois social commentator to enunciate my real thoughts and emotions...make it y'know...'authentic'.

    Either that..or she might be lookin for a toy boy..actually..scrap that idea..I'll just sign on.

  46. Shef thanks for passing on that link have bought the book!

    Hank re your experience with FE. As a former adult tutor I really sympathise - the thing is they don't get funding unless the students get a 'qualification' Its completely destroyed the adult education ethos which was learning for its own sake. God I am so glad I'm retired!

    "As Oscar Wilde said, a cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. And that's where we are now"

    Sad but true.

    "Strangely, I've never had any problems with the mods deleting my profile and comments. Again and again"