09 July 2009

Daily Chat 09/07/09

On this day in 1357, Charles IV set the foundation stone for the Charles Bridge in Prague. In 1868, the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution was passed, granting full citizenship to black Americans and guaranteeing all US citizens due process of law. In 1986, homosexuality was legalised in New Zealand. Celebrating birthdays today: David Hockney, Shaft (aka Richard Roundtree), Marc Almond, Tom Hanks, Jim Kerr, and Paolo diCanio. Bahá'ïs commemorate the Martyrdom of the Bab today.


  1. Ah, the black dick who's a hit with all the chicks. Happy birthday RR, can ya dig it?

    PS He was in Q - The Winged Serpent as well, which was awful, but in a really good way.

  2. Anyone seen Tanya Gold's piece in today's G2?

    God, honestly, how is it better than walking into a 6th form debating society and saying:

    "Girls are better than boys: discuss"?!?!?!?!?

    I give up, I really do!

  3. @Dot:

    I was reading the Graun on the train this morning, the G2 section was leading with "A world without men" or similar. I didn't bother opening it.

    Which probably shows what a narrow-minded bigot I am, but anyway...

  4. Swifty

    That was the article: British scientists have managed to make artificial sperm, the Graun immediately leaps to "a world without men"

  5. @Dot:

    I suspect the Graun will have had that copy ready to go for quite a while now, rather like when a notable sleb or Royal pegs it, and the pre-prepared obits are quickly dusted off, updated and published.

  6. @Swifty

    I suspect you're right

    The Guardian is my Dad's newspaper of choice: I grew up reading it, I used to think it was brilliant.

    Can anyone tell me whether it's gone downhill since the early 90's or I've just got old and cynical?

  7. elementary_watson09 July, 2009 09:54

    I read Tanya's article rather as a spoof of radfem beliefs. I guess I'm the only commenter on that thread who isn't appalled by the article, even though I started the article ready to write "Would a world without Tanya Gold really be so bad?"

    However, porn and sperm, that's what keeps the guardian going, isn't it?

  8. @Dot:

    My old man too. I learnt all about crosswords from it (he still does the cryptic every day); I remember the San Serife April Fools, which took a bit of explaining on his part; I remember the gothic Manchester Guardian masthead; the dense b&w type. I used to sit on his knee when I was little and he was doing the "crozzie", happy days.

    He also used to take the Staggers as well, but I don't think he does any more.

    I should ask him what he thinks of the Graun these days. He still walks up to the village shop 6 days a week to buy it.

    I buy it occasionally, but for my "proper" journalistic fix, I get Private Eye.

  9. @Swifty

    My Dad still gets it delivered, I'd ask him what he thinks of it, but his default state is "moan"
    (about the state of the world: not his family)

    "He's never happy unless he's moaning, and even then he's not best pleased...."

  10. @Dot:

    Yep, my dad too. He's taken against "boy racers" just at the minute, for some reason best known to himself - the N Yorks village he lives in has about 2,000 residents, of whom the average age is, if I'm being charitable, 68.

  11. @Swifty

    With my Dad it's "big corporations" and their inability to provide proper customer service etc.

    Despite having spent his entire career working for one..........

  12. @Dot:

    Mine's also much exercised by the fact that there's a suggestion "they" might build some affordable housing in the fields behind his house. And a new surgery.

    Poor old dad. Thankfully at 73 he's still fit and has all his faculties, but he's a proper worrier. Lovely bloke though.

  13. Dot, Swifty: I’m assuming it’s the same piece as went up online last night in the Life & Style – Women’s section.

    We’re not allowed to go in there unchaperoned, Swifty. We still don’t know about Dot, do we? ;-)

    "Girls are better than boys”?

    OBVIOUSLY boys are better than girls. Girls are crap. End of...

    Glad we’re finally having some proper intellectual discussion here, BTW. It’s been sorely lacking, IMO.

  14. @andy:

    This is the Untrusted, we're allowed to leave our intellects at the door mate :-)

    You're right though - it is great being a bloke.

  15. @andy:

    Phwoar, Shirley Manson was one foxy lady. Sorry, that might have been a bit bloke-ish, but she used to ring my bell, ding dong.

  16. But Andy,

    "no one's produced any decent music since 1979"!

    Someone stop me going over to Tanya's thread and trying to talk sense into them..........

  17. @Dot:

    True, good point. Except 1969, in my dad's case. Hendrix and the Beatles. And country and western. It's where I get my impeccable taste in music from, obviously.

    Don't go near La Gold's "speak your brains" piece. Light up some crack heroin instead, it'll do you less harm.

  18. Dot: “No one’s produced any decent music since 1979”

    Yeah, I know. Punk Rock was proper music, tunes you could sing along to, performed by proper musicians who could really play their instruments... Kids today don’t know they’re born... What?

    223 people have so far tried to talk some sense into Tanya, but if you think you’ll succeed where they’ve all failed, go ahead.

  19. "Porn and Sperm"

    Sounds like a dubious cabaret act!

    Can't read the comments, works computer has since deemed them evil but I reckon the music bit is causing a kerfuffle?
    A world without men is bit of a tired old concept. I wish they'd go for something a bit off-piste like 'a world without spuds'


  20. I'm joking about the TG stuff, she's just doing what she always does. Not worth taking seriously, and certainly not worth responding to - in my humble, obviously.

  21. 'a world without spuds'

    That doesn't bear thinking about, mendoza. We'd never have seen
    this little guy

  22. True Scherfig. Mr Carrotface just doesn't cut it and turnips just seem communist to me.

    Still, I'm quite disappointed there's been no comedy element to this whole stemcell, 'playing god' business. I defy anyone not to see the funny side of splicing a kangaroo with a poodle.


  23. Swifty

    "Don't go near La Gold's "speak your brains" piece. Light up some crack heroin instead, it'll do you less harm."

    I've decided it would be best for my health if I went off to play with some things I found at the bottom of a river yesterday...........

  24. One of the comments made laugh, though. The poster was wondering why it was such a big deal a scientist had "made some sperm in the laboratory", he himself had made some in the kitchen only last night, and was going to make some more this morning at the bus stop (if no one was looking...).

  25. elementary_watson09 July, 2009 12:00

    One commenter, Swifty? I've seen at least three.

  26. Yeah, I was wondering what all the fuss was about.

    I’ve been creating sperm by the traditional method quite happily for about thirty years now, though my production rates have dropped a bit in recent years.

  27. @elementary:

    I did give up on page 2 of the comments, mate...

    A propos of nothing, I've received an offer I'm struggling to refuse in my inbox:

    "This Ashes Summer means that it will be a busy summer for Cricinfo, the worlds biggest cricket website. Two years ago, the site was bought by ESPN .

    Tom Gleeson is ESPN's VP of Digital Media and this week he tells new media age how this site will be leading the way in his network's ambitious expansion plans. Gleeson tells us about monetising content across platforms and distributing content via social networking sites."

    Sounds fantastic, doesn't it?

  28. Swifty

    You made it as far as page 2? I barely got 5 comments in and then wondered what the hell I was wasting my time for.

    Tanya Gold, bless her, writes like she should be working for OK magazine.

  29. @BB:

    Tenaciousness, old girl, is an asset in some situations. Although so is recognising when you're beat. I recognised that halfway down page 2. About a page and a half later than I should have done, admittedly. You make a good point.

    I'm not sure Tanya Gold should be writing anywhere, to be honest. Except maybe in her diary - "OMG, my boyf is so like mean, I hate my like so-called life" etc etc.

  30. elementary_watson09 July, 2009 13:11

    Oh my feggy! They put up an article by a man in response to the Tanya piece, which seems to be as idiotic, if not more so. Can't be bothered to really read it, the first paragraph was enough.

  31. 'Polishing Caves'? Is that a euphemism?

    "The risk-taking urge that makes us want to destroy the world and remake it in our own image also makes for great art."

    Oddly enough, that was my builders reasoning when he insisted on wrecking a perfectly good patio, in order to fix a broken drain.


  32. 'Jim Kerr, and Paolo diCanio'

    Hmm - I think they met at Celtic Park once, though I gather their politics are different, and Paolo is one of the few men never married to Patsy Kensit.

  33. Hi Edwin, welcome to The Untrusted.

    There's one thing I've got in common with Paolo diCanio, then.

    Saw your comment on the Memorial thread the other day. London IS the flower of cities (I would say that wouldn’t I!), for the very reason you mentioned.

  34. Swifty

    I still buy the Graun - like your Dad - it's a sad addiction I know but I simply can't help it. If could afford it I'd buy the Indie and the Telegraph as well - I just love newspapers.

    When I read the Tanya Gold piece and the accompanying Stephen Moss manly bit (both a bit wet to say the least) at lunchtime I guessed you guys would be having some fun about it over here. I can read UT at work but can't comment - it's sooo frustrating.

  35. Hi sheff

    I only buy the Graun on a saturday these days. Bad I know.

  36. Hi andy glad to be here. Can I throw Father Ted and Shaft into the ring?


    Always makes me feel good!

  37. Edwin: you can throw anyone you like in.

    And if you can do it as a hyperlink, you’ll be even more popular.

    Someone else will have to show you the ropes though, because I’ve got an appointment with some potatoes...

  38. Ah keech dunno why it didn't come up as a link.

    'Someone else will have to show you the ropes though'

    - hmm if there's an initiation rite to go through then I'm off despite the comfort of Cif names!

    'In 1868, the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution was passed, granting full citizenship to black Americans and guaranteeing all US citizens due process of law.'

    And 20 years later it had all slipped back in the south.

  39. Edwin -- no, there's no initiation here! Andy just meant the ropes of a link in the comments here. In case you don't know how it's:

    {a href="THE URL TO BE LINKED TO GOES HERE"}the text you wish to appear as a link goes here{/a}

    except that you have to replace these { } brackets with < > those brackets.

    And, some Americans (points to self) would say that we're still waiting for all US citizens to receive due process of law.

    Welcome, Edwin!

  40. I liked Tanya's daft jokes.. Who cares if its silly.. She can be rather amusing methinks when the whim grabs her.. More than can be said bout some of the over-precious posting on her thread...

  41. many thanks Montana will do that in future.

    Have been a regular on Big H's blog for a while and just realised (I am really slow I know) he has a panel with links to Cifters everywhere which is great.

  42. I'm unaware of Big H's blog. Point me to it and I'll link to it here. (Who's Big H? I haven't ran across that name on Cif...)

  43. I think its Heresy Corner (heresiarch on cif)
    Heresy Corner

  44. Montana: Big H is the Heresiarch. I believe he pops in here occasionally.

    Maybe I should confess that I used to visit his corner of hell before I discovered this little piece of heaven, and I think it was there that I first heard about Jay's little local difficulty, which eventually brought me over here.

    Edwin is a fairly frequent visitor over there, I believe (hope I'm not revealing anything you'd want kept under wraps Edwin; can't imagine I am). We've already got a link to his page, as he has to ours.

    These formal introductions can be a little awkward at times: A, this is B, who knows our mutual friend C, but only through D who you've never met, unless it was through someone else (E perhaps) who is unknown to me.

  45. Ah, good, sheff knows all about it too.

  46. Oh. Heresiarch didn't even occur to me. Yes, of course I know him... (slaps forehead) Duh!

  47. Made my first deadline! Spliff in order... Woo Hoo!
    Completely feckin up my cricket fetish this extra working rubbish... and anyone who likes GB (apart from his hats) wants shooting...

  48. andy - I've only lurked at Heresy Corner so far

  49. Shit, Montana, you’re just not with it tonight, are you?

    GB is Geoff Boycott, famous England cricketer and now commentator on BBC radio.

    Am I going to have to explain everything to you?

    Sheff: me too.

    It was back in the days before I had a google account and stuff.

    Since I’ve been coming here, I’ve not really had much time for “big H”

  50. Andy, the only thing I know about cricket is that they used to wear these lovely white jumpers and white trousers and look so dapper and that sometimes they play so long that they take tea breaks during the proceedings. I know that there are things called wickets and stumps and overs and that they bowl rather than pitch. I think there's one type of throw called a googlie (I have the film "Hope and Glory" to thank for that piece of knowledge, IIRC). There used to be a guy named Ian Botham who was quite good at it and, yes, I remember the name Geoff Boycott, but as a Yank, the first person who comes to mind when I see the initials GB is not a cricketer. I refer you to a certain former president who had trouble with big words and liked to start wars.

  51. Oh, and Viv Richards? Richardson? Something like that. I'll google. And the Ashes. I know about the Ashes.

  52. Wildhack - They still wear the white jumpers and it's The Ashes NOW! Very important..
    Geoffrey Boycott is from Yorkshire and everything he does and says is a constant reminder of his tykeness.. AND he was the most boring batsman ever... officially.. His panama hats are his only... and I mean only, saving grace.

  53. So are those hideous tracksuitish uniforms only for the 20/20 or whatever it's called? Is this a War of the Roses thing with you, Kiz, this anti-Yorkshirism I detect?

  54. Tis the case Montana - Fylde lasses are disturbed by what lies across the Pennines.

  55. Re Tanya's thread OMG anyone on here could do better!

    Sperm are such simple things just a nucleus and some gizmos for movement.

    When they create an ovum I'll take notice ;-)

    Thats scientific fact not fem propaganda btw.

    I use to think people up north were daft to get so exercised about a mediaeval dynastic struggle. Then I realised it was all about cricket!

  56. Being a fylde lass, i admit there is such a thing as the wrong side of the Pennines (obviously not my side!)... and Geoffrey does indeed hail from the unmentionable... But come on... he really is an annoying boring git.. How many times a day does he say "Now, when I were a batsman...' He never says anythng different or remotely interesting/insightful... Neh-VER. Love all the other TMS lot though...

  57. Kiz
    Wasn't Boycott also prosecuted for beating up a woman in France?

    if you are referring to Yorkshire being the wrong side of the Penines I shall have to call you out on that one - teapots at dawn?

  58. No not giving anything away Andy!

    Re cricket Montana, my (signed) copy of Flashman and the Redskins tells me at footnote 64 that Captain Benteen mentions cricket in a letter about the Little Big Horn - Flashman adds that Benteen was a cricket buff but Fraser says Flashy is the only authority for this.

    Baseball was fostered at Americn cricket grounds and eventually became dominant in the US.

    You will all of course know that a Jane Austen heroine, Catherine Moreland, played baseball as a young girl!

  59. Damn I wasted my attempt at being punny - should have said 'cricket and Montana'.