22 July 2009

Daily Chat 22/07/09

King Edward I defeated the forces of William Wallace in the Battle of Falkirk in 1298. Alexander Mackenzie became the first white person to complete a transcontinental journey of Canada on this day in 1793 and in 1934, FBI agents mortally wounded John Dillinger outside the Biograph Theatre in Chicago. Celebrating birthdays today: Terence Stamp, George Clinton, Bobby Sherman, Danny Glover, Mireille Mathieu, S.E. Hinton, Willem Dafoe, Rhys Ifans, Rufus Wainwright and Dirk Kuyt. It is Pi Approximation Day.

126 comments:

  1. what does 'it's pi approximation day' mean?

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  2. That is 22 divided by 7 gives the approximation of pi - it being the 22nd of the 7th our american cousins thought they would make a day of it...

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  3. That is hilarious (in a good way). But isn't the date the wrong way round to the American way of thinking?

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  4. Brilliant, that's nerdier than star wars day!

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  5. Apparently the Americans have already had a bash at pi day on March 14th.

    That gives 3/14 the first three digits of pi..........god those guys will go to some extremes just to eat pie...

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  6. You can approximate pi by throwing darts at a dartboard on a square background; we did it once in maths at school. Took about 50 darts to get pi to three places. I forget the maths, but it was fun.

    I really hate CiF today. The moderation is just foul and partisan and absurd. I may resign my commission...

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  7. S'decent day for birthdays - George Clinton, Terence Stamp, Rufus Wainwright and Dirk Kuyt ("Put your hands up for Dirk Kuyt..he loves this city!").
    But then it all goes mammaries up with Danny bleedin Dyer.

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  8. Frank, what's gotten your goat?

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  9. George Clinton - woo hoo! Where is funkistheway?

    Shit - goddamn - get off yo ass and jam!

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  10. @Mendoza:

    Indeed. Come on Pikey, who's stolen your scone this morning?

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  11. >>Frank, what's gotten your goat?

    The fact that if I had a goat, Polly would denounce me as elitist, demand that the goat be nationalised, she'd take the goat and give it to the marvellous little man who does for her in Tuscany, then she'd charge me 120% Goat Transfer Tax and put me in a goat truck to the re-education camps. Then she'd write another poxy article about how *nice* she was, and anyone who disagreed would be deleted.

    grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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  12. @Anonymous:

    Yes, your common or garden variety American would write the date today as 07/22/09. However, your more mathematically/scientifically inclined American tends to do things the European way for consistency's sake. I do it the European way here since most of the people who frequent the place are European and I'm a pretentious Euro-wannabe.

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  13. That’s so ridiculous it’s great.

    I’ve just put “pi a” into google, and the seventh suggestion led straight to THIS

    Right, I’ve got important job-application stuff to do now, so no more Untrusted frolics or CiF trolling for me until it’s finished :-(

    Like Oscar said, I can resist everything but temptation ;-)

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  14. Ah Montana, you don't seem pretentious to me :-) (plus the European way is so clearly the right way, hehe).

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  15. Pi day - genius. We should have pi day over here, fascinating little number. Can we all share pi facts to mark this occasion?

    If you take the length of a river as the crow flies, the actual length of the river with all its meanderings will generally be about pi x that length.

    Is there an e day?


    Pikey - you've been mauled by the mods eh, happens to the best of us old boy... Polly's article was particularly stupid, but then CIF is pretty rubbish full stop at the minute so she's not really doing much worse than anyone else. The dying days of this dirty little regime were always going to be tough for their #1 cheerleaders.

    I still cant get over inequality widening under NL. They have made society more unequal than Thatcher managed. Shocking beyond words - the one party state is here (though of course browns radical reform package will soon put paid to that).

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  16. Or Pie Day - that would be even better....

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  17. America already has 365 of those.

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  18. @Jay:

    Time was, us malnourished Britons would have come a distant second in the Fatarse Olympics to the US, but we're getting much much more competitive these days, at least judging by the huge leisure-suited brontosauruses I see waddling round the supermarket on a weekend with their massive offspring.

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  19. "huge leisure-suited brontosauruses"

    Give it a few years and people will be going to the supermarkets instead of the zoos to marvel at the diversity of life's fauna, some fascinating specimens. But that said, when i went to the US, oh my good god, i have never seen fat like it, nor in quality nor quantity. Everywhere - hippos. Whole families of hippos. Fatness, nay obesity, seems literally the norm rather than the exception.

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  20. >>Pikey - you've been mauled by the mods

    And it gets worse Jay. I appear to be in pre-mod now - not been notified, but I am, and I have also lost my C.

    I really should just walk away but I already know how addictive the ranting is...

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  21. It is done. I have quit.

    Someone get me some drugs, quick.

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  22. @Frank:

    It is done. I have quit.

    With a grand final gesture? Or just slunk away?

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  23. Well I said goodbye on the WDYWTTA thread and sent a... firmly worded... mail to Matt, but there was no flouncing.

    I'm starting to feel shivery, and I can see things crawling over my keyboard - is this normal?

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  24. Pikey, they took your C? This is outrageous. The CIF wars rage on. Though nothing really happens on cif at the minute anyway. You'll keep posting though even if you dont write, surely?

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  25. I'll always see that big blue C whenever I think of you, Frank...

    Only joking, I think I remember you saying you were warned before about BTL behaviour unbecoming an officer, sorry, a contributor, weren't you?

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  26. They prob wont let your comment through on Waddya. I wrote a thank you to Cath Elliott for her contribution to my ban incident and they didnt let it through, which i thought was pretty low.

    I have made an enquiry on the waddya thread.

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  27. No I quit Jay; MrPB is dead. I shall miss him. There's not much point posting when the Mods are on your arse. Got a snotty mail back from Matt, as expected, where he talks about being put into pre-mod, even though it only happened this morning and I hadn't mentioned it, so it's obviously not just a random modding decision. All very depressing.

    CiF was great when Georgina was around - although I guess to be fair to Matt his tenure coincides with the general ramping up of hatred for this poxy government and all who back it. Post-election, CiF might snap out of this formulaic drudge it's in right now, if only to fire some barbs at the tories, but I think the GMG generally is going to struggle to find a role when it has no party to cheerlead. I can't imagine they'll stick with labour after what's coming. But you never know.

    Hmm. So I might have to start writing more for my own site, or there's a couple of novels barely started...

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  28. Bidisha's back on form - misogyny, homophobia, child abuse. It's got to be HARRY POTTER!

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  29. although I guess to be fair to Matt his tenure coincides with the general ramping up of hatred for this poxy government and all who back it.

    Which does rather beggar the wisdom of putting up so many articles by NuLab MPs and colluders and then moderating everyone who disagrees.

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  30. Goldmine is in there with a classic....

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  31. yeah goldmines done good there.


    Pikey, why not "rebirth"?

    CIF will be better after the GE i think, it is really struggling right now, barely worth bothering with. With the Tories to attack every day it will be back to form i think.

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  32. Rebirth? What, you mean come back with another moniker? As if I'd do a thing like that...

    I dunno to be honest. It's not the place it was. I enjoyed writing ATL but that wasn't going to happen again with the current regime; at least, it didn't appear likely. And the BTL squabbling is more bitter than it once was. I think it's dawning on left wing posters that their govt has blown the last chance they'll get for a generation, at least. Can't be good for morale...

    Furniture? You called me furniture.

    A sideboard?

    Bidisha's just plain nuts. Although at least she isn't an evil treasonous hypocritical arrogant aristo bitch like Polly.

    Oh that felt good.

    Let it out.

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  33. @Frank:

    I think the GMG generally is going to struggle to find a role when it has no party to cheerlead.

    They'll be going Lib Dem, I reckon. Cleggy's getting more coverage these days, Cable too, even Lembit bloody Opik's getting a look in. On the back of the Graun's editorial line of a month or so ago (remember the heady days of "Brown ain't the man"?), they're lining up for a change in direction, I think.

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  34. They'll be going Lib Dem, I reckon.

    Yeah that would appear the logical choice, but the libdems ain't really Left enough for the G. Social democrats? Well that was tried before, if you recall.... Ah who knows, when even the bloody tories are embracing Polly, anything can happen. What we really need is a proper right wing party that'll hack the public sector to the bone, but the entire political and media establishment is lined up against that kind of ideology.

    What might really hurt the Guardian is the income drop they're looking at, from job ads, but also across the GMG. Radio advertising is down, Autotrader - which they still own half off - is bombing as ads go online. And they must be losing money on every copy of the paper they sell. They had a great thing in CiF and they're blowing it.

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  35. Frank - this is ridiculous. I don't think I've ever agreed with a single opinion of yours, but you have made me laugh quite a lot.

    Bidisha is not plain nuts. She is clearly a special kind of nuts.

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  36. LOL - MJTValfather has just called Bidisha a Death Eater. That's brilliant.

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  37. Oooh I see MattS has been lured into the Waddya thread but has posted a curiously limited description of our email dialogue this morning that misses a term I used for those protected by CiF from robust criticism: "cheerleaders".

    See if you can guess who I meant...

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  38. @Frank:

    I think it's telling that the Graun is currently engaged in an orgy of "whither the Left" navel-gazing while you'd expect at least some sort of rallying cry to get the Labour vote out for the Norwich byelection tomorrow.

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  39. OMG - Pi key day!

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  40. OMG - Pi key day!

    lol - yes, from this day forth punks and skins and rastas will all gather round and hold their hands in sorrow for their fallen leader. And all the grown-ups will say, "But why are the kids crying?" And the kids will say, "Haven't you heard? Pikey is dead! The People's Pike is dead!"

    Something like that...

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  41. Interestingly, Matt Seaton in that comment seems to think our very own BeautifulBurnout is right-wing, unless I'm misreading what he's saying, and that in fact he's saying she's not a badge-wearing feminist.

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  42. @Jay:

    Can I nominate millytante's comment on Sarfraz Manzoor's article about pop music for the Feminist of the Month award please? She's gone from pop music via religion, kulcha and misogygny to the patriarchy in one fast, furious, free-wheelin' essay?

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  43. I think he means badge-wearing feminist, but I had the same "Whaaa?" on first reading.

    He did seem awfully chipper about immediately acceding to Frank's request to remove his C badge.

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  44. elementary_watson22 July, 2009 14:15

    Swifty: Not being perfectly familiar with all that English vernacular, but making such claims means that Matt Seaton is, by definition, a first-class arsehole tosser, right?

    OTOH, he maybe did not mean what he implied ...

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  45. Swifty - I always read millytante's posts as satire. Am I wrong?

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  46. He did seem awfully chipper about immediately acceding to Frank's request to remove his C badge.

    Yeah. Especially as I hadn't asked them to do that that. It was when I noticed I was in pre-mod, and then noticed they'd also took the C off, that I thought, oh sod this and mailed I QUIT!

    Now that I think about it, there was a mild flounce at that point.

    They pushed, and I jumped.

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  47. @elementary_watson:

    I think it makes him hard of thinking if he reckons BB is right-wing. Unless "not being immediately and unthinkingly critical of Plod in the Sabina Akhtar wife-murdering case" is now considered a mark of right-wing tendencies...

    But as I say, and thauma says, it's entirely possible I've misread what he wrote.

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  48. So what was the 'foul and abusive language' you used, Pikey? You didn't call her Tony Blair, did you?

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  49. Swifty - could you copy and paste the offending essay for my perusal? Millytante is always a corker. Its not satire Thaum, though it would be pure genius if it was.

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  50. @Jay:

    It's possibly a tad long to paste in here, mate.

    Linky here.

    And she's having a bit of a mad moment on that thread, from the look of it - lots of near-misses with puns on song lyrics.

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  51. So what was the 'foul and abusive language' you used, Pikey?

    Wasn't about her actually - hard to say as the posts are gone but I think I may have called Tony Crossland a marxist prick. The old english term "unfuckingbelievable" may have been used.

    But I suspect it was mostly when i described hating socialists in my sleep that they got the hump, I reckon

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  52. Pre-modding seems rather excessive - in fact, deletion only sounds over-zealous.

    Jay - well, I'm going to continue reading her posts as satire because they're bloody funny! I don't care if I'm deluded.

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  53. FrankFisher: If you called Crossland a Marxist, they probably just deleted you for talking bollocks.

    And if you’re proud of “hating socialists in your sleep” I don’t think you’ll be very welcome round here for long once the novelty wears off.

    Remind me, when was the last time you popped in here to even pass the time of day before you had this tale of woe to tell and sympathy to glean?

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  54. Swifty - oh dear, poor old Milly, what a confused little rant, badly written, thinly veiled racial slurs at the end... Fem of the Week - will take some beating.

    Thaum - if it was satire it really wouuld be satire of the finest quality, it would be too good for CIF, it would need publishing.

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  55. I'm sorry andysays I wasn't aware that political affiliations were being checked at the door.

    I've been here now and then in the last few months, not often. But maybe too often for your liking eh?

    Getting so a feller can't find a place to sit around this here internet...

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  56. Andy, calm down. I'm quite capable of hating 'libertarians' who want to completely dismantle the welfare state in my sleep, but anyone with a decent sense of humour is a plus.

    Besides, I think Frank is a secret Green voter who hasn't come out of the closet yet.

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  57. No Frank, political affiliations are not checked at the door in the sense of being examined and entry refused if they’re not judged appropriate, but neither are they checked in the sense of being put to one side and ignored.

    You can say what you like here Frank, but don’t expect EVERYONE to give you an easy uncritical ride just because you’ve had a falling out with your erstwhile employer.

    thauma: whilst a sense of humour is a plus, I also choose my friends to some extent on their the substance of what they say and do.

    You pass on both criteria, of course ;-)

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  58. Frank is not just a Green voter, he also does voluntary work for Fawcett once a week and was an unpaid researcher for the Poppy Project.

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  59. Just found speedkermit's ABL stuff....

    Geoff Cahill

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  60. Not looking for an easy ride and/or friends andysays. Simply came along here today as it's the most frequently used off-site discussion place for CiF.

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  61. was an unpaid researcher for the Poppy Project.

    and what a night that was

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  62. 'Getting so a feller can't find a place to sit around this here internet...'

    Well there are plenty of not bad hangouts including your own gaff Frank. Yours, the Big H ranch for my main home, Book ride, liberal conspiracy, Phil Hall and erm here among the Trustees and a couple of others and that does me, while I still have a life.

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  63. Well there are plenty of not bad hangouts including your own gaff Frank

    Needs hoovering

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  64. andy - give pikey a break he's a wounded warrior today. Be good to have someone to shout at round here.

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  65. Pikey,

    disagreed 99.98% of what you said but agreed 100% with the way you said it. You'll be missed.

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  66. sheff: I’m not telling him to fuck off, I’m just expressing my opinion.

    It’s what we (all) do here, innit?

    Anyone Fancy a Beer?

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  67. 'Needs hoovering'

    Well, you haven't put up anything since May but I do look at your back catalogue! This is turning into a Pike tribute thread with assorted Borgnines going 'Pike!. . Pike!..." but the truth is Cif has lost its savour and flavour anyway, and you'll soon be levelling the maxim (or was it gatling) gun at the Mapaches of the world again.

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  68. The music is fab too. My favourite sequence is the idyllic village scene with Angel's people - magic

    Oddly I read the other day that Peckinpah's music editor didn't know at first what to make of the Dylan songs on the Pat Garrett movie but Peckinpah told him it'll be fine, and we got the scene with Slim Pickens dying by the river with Katy Jurado weeping, while LQ Jones gasps his last before Coburn - Knockin' on Heaven's Door indeed.

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  69. No!!! You can't have gone pikey! Yhat's ruined a hell of a lot of my cif fun...
    And I can't believe they took yr C! How petty is that?
    I think I can feel a bloody annoyed coming on again.. off to see what was said on the waddya, back shortly...

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  70. I really think you should reconsider your resignation Frank... seriously... Don't do it!

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  71. As Kiz says, would be nice to think you'd reconsider Pikey, maybe just take a break for a while.

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  72. Pikey

    Even I'll miss you - you do liven things up (that black lace thread the other week springs to mind). cif has become very dull lately with all the predictable and tedious headbangers out in force.

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  73. reconsider your resignation Frank

    No, I don't think so. I've been thinking about this for a long time. I liked writing above the line, but it places restraints on you, and I didn't like that, or the fact that I agreed to it. And, as I've mentioned I think here, and at Heresy Corner, I've worried that I was protected from banning by virtue of that ABL status, and I didnt' feel good about that either. AND... the ABL writing had dried up - ideas I pitched were knocked back, or even passed to other writers... And then, not being able to fairly respond to Polly's extraordinary rant against inequality and privilege when she herself is *only* where she is because of her family background...

    Straws. Camels backs. All that.

    So no, I won't be going back. Thanks for the support anyway, but no. Don't worry, I'll be spamming like crazy once I'm writing again someplace...

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  74. Well that really is a shame and a loss to cif... and I hope you will think on it further... I really do.

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  75. The thing is Frank... what other forum is there with such a very diverse bunch of nutters to pontificate to, jar with, take the piss or have a laugh with... We all know ALL of the Graun's faults... they're not going anywhere anytime soon.. Even if it's often boring as hell there's still camaraderie and it is a laugh... occasionally... and you've always been a part of it.. Don't GO NOw.. too many interesting people have buggered off as it is!

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  76. Yeah Frank - I'm with Kiz. We all moan about Cif, but is there anything better? I've not found it.

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  77. Yeah I quite agree - it is the best place around, for all its faults; but that isn't enough. There are things I want to say and I clearly can't say them there, and wouldn't feel comfortable saying them elsewhere, then scurrying back. It's always been an awkward fit and now it's broken - that's the way I look at it. I understand why the Guardian and all invloved are... stressed. Why they're probably angry at, among others, right wing bloggers. I think CiF was partly established to counter the natural right wing tendancy online, and unfortunately the G found that even there, the left wing ideas and ideals were not safe from challenge. I reckon they were furious - some were at least. I remember Polly attacking me by name, must be three years ago now "What do you do all day MrPikeBishop..."

    What I think I'm trying to say is that the relationship has irretrievably broken down

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  78. No such thing as irretrievable Frank.. Think on it... and I'll badger you again later.. And for cryin out loud.. Why let Polly bug you? rilly rilly?

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  79. Frank,

    " it is the best place around, for all its faults; but that isn't enough">

    What would be 'enough from your point of view'? Genuine question - not being facetious.

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  80. But Frank - most of the right-wing sites are full of illiterate, swivel-eyed, paranoid morons. You know it's true.

    All viewpoints should be up for challenge so therefore we need some people with seriously misguided philosophies - like yourself - to post these alternate ideas rationally.

    As for Polly - I'd never be able to work out what her actual point is in any article if it weren't for the sub-head. I'm amazed that she's published - who takes her ramblings seriously? Does the Guardian really think that people respect her opinion (if they can work out what it is)?

    Probably not, since the moderation carnage is so severe on her threads. So why is she there?

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  81. because she's an 'institution'... with friends... contacts.. position... blah di blah di blah.
    I can half get Polly being let loose... I'll never get the likes of magistrate Myerson being given a podium, though...

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  82. Probably because I hadn't lived in the UK for many years, I'd never heard of Polly until I started reading the Graun (and Cif) within the past few years. So the Institution part of it is meaningless to me and I just take it on face value - which, to me, is incomprehensible.

    With you on the Myerson thing - but seems it's part of the same nepotistic instincts.

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  83. Fuck's sake Frank, now who am I going to row with?

    I mean, I realise I could row with practically everybody (except kizbot), but no one argues with me quite like you Pikey.

    It's the end of an era that's what it is, and believe it or not Frank, I'm actually going to miss you.

    Take care.

    Cath

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  84. What would be enough?

    Short answer SheffPixie: CiF as it was. When Georgina gave me a shot above the line I, and I image she, got *so* much flak. But I guess she wanted a wide range of views, BTL and ATL. I dont' see that goal there any more.

    You don't see it anywhere else either - everyone's so shit scared of uncontrolled UGC these days that the first thing anyone thinks of when planning a site is "how can we stop people from posting anything that might get us into trouble?"

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  85. Frank, sincerely I think you will be a loss, please reconsider, if you give up, who else is going to fight your particular corners, and, furthermore, drum up thought?

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  86. Cath - I do like the way you argue. For the same reason I like Frank.

    Both of you, confess: do your commissions from the Graun say something like, "write something that will wind everyone up"?

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  87. No they don't. In fact I have been known to write pieces that don't wind everyone up, it's just that those are the ones no one tends to remember.

    I've got a piece up now where everyone's being really nice (and calm).

    It's only when I write about feminist issues that people get all het up. Dunno why that is.....

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  88. Oh Cath.. can we not have a really big fight? Go on... you know it'd be fun! You bring your rock cakes, I'll bring my teapots and if all else fails we can always turn on Jay!
    So Frank.. you don't see the goal anymore? So yr just going to leave us..? Not on. I really don't think you've made the right decision here... and ... and... how could you live without us!
    I'm going to start crying in a minute...

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  89. Aw, I'm disappointed. I was sure there was a massive conspiracy to generate hits.

    I'll have a quick dekko at your latest piece - didn't see it at work and Cif tends to crash my browser at home....

    If I can't get to it tonight (and time is running out) I shall get on it tomorrow and try to start a fight.

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  90. 'You don't see it anywhere else either - everyone's so shit scared of uncontrolled UGC these days that the first thing anyone thinks of when planning a site is "how can we stop people from posting anything that might get us into trouble?"..'
    errm? which is exactly why you should stay... is it not?

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  91. 'When building a Nu World Architecture, Cement is free'

    posed the cynic

    'and all opinions are valued.... except if they are a bit ..... vulgar...... or ... controversial.... or .......suggest conspiratorial processes.....or...... ....tend to illuminate the masonry of the 'architecture of social change' so to speak'

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  92. 'But remember............... ignore the trolls'

    posed the cynic

    'who knows where they might lead you...............'

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  93. Frank

    I think you're talking about halcyon days before my time. The fact is, it looks like you're bailing out, which is obviously your prerogative but which is a huge shame - as the more decent folk, (whatever their particular positions), do that the more of the swivel eyed are left. I'm definitely with kiz on this and think you should fight your corner.

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  94. which is exactly why you should stay... is it not?

    If could write what I wanted to write, yes, but I can't. I'm not getting that opportunity above the line at the moment, Cath does, Ally does, I don't - don't ask me why 'cus I don't know. And I reckon if I wanted another chance to that, I'd neeed to "behave" a little better below the line. Can't do that any more. Can't bite my tongue. I'll write at my own place, when stuff comes along.

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  95. A bit off-topic here, or perhaps it's actually on-topic, given Frank's recent demise as an ATL commenter. The percentage of Oxbridge chaps and chapesses has just gone up. Remember the discussion a while back about ATL nepotism and the list of who writes for the Guardian? Well, nobody pegged Lola Adesioye. As she says herself, 'with my private school education and Cambridge degree'! Who knew?
    I hope you're not going to jack it in too, Cath. You must be the nearest thing to working class that the Guardian's got left.

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  96. Well it's not all about writing above the line... although I do understand yr frustration / annoyance. And I do think they've got more conservative about who they give gigs to.. and it pisses me off as well. But I still think that's just another reason to stick about and be a gadfly.. It's not just about behaving... It is possible to misbehave without being out of order. I do actually have some sympathy with the idea of minding one's manners... coz I've seen the results of people just venting on here... not conducive to anything but all round nastiness, of which I'm not a major fan.
    And the Graun is a huge site with tons of nutters all frothing at the gob... I think it's possible to froth eloquently and not just by lashing out.

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  97. scherfig
    Perhaps Ms Adesioye 'disclosed' because she felt we were leaving her out of our nepotism survey?

    For andysays
    There's a fascinating article on ancient trees by Patrick Barkham.

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  98. In a nation of morons, Texas reigns supreme.

    Frank, I want to add my voice to the chorus of those asking you not to leave Cif. I understand the frustration with the Guardianistas, truly I do. But remember, none of us are really there because of Seaton & Co. -- we're there because of each other. To me, the BTLers are far more important than anything the Graun staff does. We need you!

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  99. Don't you just lurve phrases like 'new ways to insert God in to the classroom' and 'to inject religious theories in to the classroom'? Those Texan Xians are soooo phallocentric.

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  100. montana
    So you saw it as well .. Praise the sky pixie that you're not in Texas!

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  101. Oh, absolutely. It must be said that, pound for pound, Iowa is one of the saner spots in the US. It's funny -- people think that we're a redneck backwater because we're 90% white and extremely rural (3 million peeps in an area the size of England & Wales), but the state actually has a fairly progressive track record on social issues. The one that I'm fondest of pointing out to people is that we were the first state to be represented at the Miss USA pageant by a black girl -- back in 1969 when the state was 97% white. What I really love about it was that it wasn't done as any sort of a political statement. She was just the girl they liked the best.

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  102. Mr PB

    Second all the calls for you to reconsider but tbh there's fuck-all chance of you ever getting out of pre-mod. It'd mean a month of tongue biting and restraint...although on second thoughts...you're probably into that kinda thing..bein' a libertarian n'all.

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  103. Fucking hell, I go away for a week or two and it's all gone mental in CiF land by the looks.

    PB in the UT ?!

    Blimey.

    Those mods really have lost it.

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  104. Hey MF, here's some metal for ya. I should imagine 99% p-eople here will hate this.

    Nice.

    Reminds me of being a kid again.

    in the eighties.....

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  105. To be honest, I think Cif's problem is that its always had a different idea of what it should be to what it actually is. Whilst our concerns are about our experience of it (quality of writing, moderation, editorial bias etc) I think the editorial team are thinking about some completely different things, such as the site's reputation and standing amongst its competitors. Everything they do has one eye on the next Webby award.

    So, they've always tried to engineer it. From the original 'only one post per 30mins' idea (they didn't like the way some people turned it into a chat so they tried to change the thread dynamics), the Pluck downgrade (a user interface done with no consultation or real thought about the user base, but why should there be? Its purpose was not to make it better for us, but to look flashy, like a proper web 2.0 site) and the constant moderation which is as much about sanitising the site and making it look less rowdy than it is, as it is about sticking to a consistent policy on offensiveness.

    This is basically (in my opinion) why Jay got banned. At first I was wondering who was stupid enough to open a Blair piece up for comment, but thinking about it from their point of view, having Blair on their site was a minor journalistic coup: the sort of site they wanted to run was the sort that would have world leaders and international figures writing on it. Everything they want cif to be dictates that they had to put his piece up there. And what happened? Jay called him a cunt :)

    Obviously there were others involved, but I'm guessing that Seaton was mortified that his big journalistic win was being so completely trashed by everyone who came on the thread. Do we not want to be on a site where world leaders write? Do we want to make good, prestigious writers stay away? Do we not care if cif gets a Webby? No, actually we don't give a shit. Jay got banned because he made the most glaring counter example to what they wanted.

    Actually, I think we embarrass them. Its like we're Cif's mates that he knows from the pub and has invited to his wedding on the grounds that we 'keep it down a bit'. He knows we're intelligent so he keeps trying to engage us in serious conversation, but we keep doing tequilas and shouting across the room at Polly.

    We're never going to be what they want us to be, they're never going to put with us as we are. Consequently, I avoid the place.

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  106. Sealion
    You've nailed it fair and square matey, and no vitriol required.

    10/10.

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  107. Jesus Christ - who the hell remembers that daft little album???

    Nice one Sealion ! My mate used to have Space Ritual; triple gatefold, the lot. We used to drink his mum's gin and neck valium to it.

    Sad really.

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  108. Largactl sedatives and Merrydown cider for us. Off your face for £1.99.

    Bargain.

    Don't make me get out "Quark, Strangeness and Charm".

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  109. I'd go along with most of that, Sealion, but how does Tanya Gold square with that? That girl shouldn't even be writing copy for cereal boxes.

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  110. Quark, Strangeness and Charm
    Oh jesus...
    Have this then

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIQWKjq_3d4

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  111. Hi Montana
    Tanya Gold "writes" for about five newspapers in the UK currently. Private Eye recently had her in their sights in the Street of Shame Column, to devastating effect.

    I know Kizbot and others don't mind her, but damn she does have the whole system working admirably for her, and on some very slim pickings indeed. For a fat lass.

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  112. Jesus. I feel like I'm having a flashback.

    I'm not sure about Tanya. I suspect she may have photos of Alan Rusbridger doing something properly nasty.

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  113. She doesn't get it right all the time and sometimes she gets it badly wrong and can be downright embarassing or rage provoking but when she's on form TANYA IS BLOODY FUNNY!

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  114. Frank - I agree with Kiz, Momtana and the others. I scarcely ever agree with what you say and some of what you say say makes me want to spit tacks(!) but I always read your posts because its obvious that what you right is what you think and not parrotted from somewhere else.

    You say you 'hate socialists in your sleep' now I'm a socialist and I don't know what socialism is myself. I am pretty clear on my critique of capitalism and of every system that has ever called itself socialist from Stalin to Nulabour!

    On Cif there seems to be an orchestrated attempt to remove all the people who who made the place an interesting place to be and that includes disagreeing with you. Hell I think we actually agreed once!

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  115. Doh 'what you write'

    Freudian slip! :-)

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  116. "Actually, I think we embarrass them. Its like we're Cif's mates that he knows from the pub and has invited to his wedding on the grounds that we 'keep it down a bit'."

    This made laugh out loud, I'd never thought of it like that but there's probably a lot of truth to it.


    Pikey, really, do consider, take a break for a while whatever but dont do anything rash. Even if you dont go ATL again would still be good to ahve you around BTL - as i said you're part of the furniture, CIF wont be quite the same if you bugger off. And where to go? CIFs not perfect but i dont know what else compares.


    "You bring your rock cakes, I'll bring my teapots and if all else fails we can always turn on Jay!"

    Ah, typical... But Cath is another good example of someone i disagree with over quite a lot of things but still am a fan of as a poster, mainly for similar reasons to Pikey - good debater and often funny, makes up for a multitude of disagreements and rows.

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