06 July 2009

Daily Chat 06/07/09

When it rains, it pours. Quite a bit today that seems worthy of note. The English king on whom I once had a totally irrational crush, Richard I, was crowned in 1189. Jan Hus was burned at the stake in 1415. Richard III was crowned in 1483. Sir Thomas More was executed in 1535. Louis Pasteur successfully tested the rabies vaccine on a human in 1885. Robert Peary set out for the North Pole in 1908. The family of Anne Frank went into hiding in 1942 and Althea Gibson became the first black athlete to win Wimbledon in 1957. Celebrating birthdays: Della Reese, Ned Beatty, Burt Ward, Sylvester Stallone, Nathalie Baye, Geoffrey Rush, Nanci Griffith and Jennifer Saunders. Today is the first day of the festival of San Fermin in Pamplona. Since Nanci Griffith is one of my favourites, here is one of my favourite Nanci Griffith songs:


  1. Montana; it’s NEVER too late.

    I finally got the new Sonic Youth disc this weekend.

    Here’s a taster

  2. Agree about Richard 1 - back in the day when we learnt the kings and queens of England by rote - he stood out as the romantic one - with handsome troubadours in tow as an added bonus. The wicked king John added extra spice to the story and even Robin Hood is in there somewhere.

  3. Thanks Jay very reassuring (really!0

    Richard I was a lousy king hardly spent any time in England and actually didn't like England - preferred Normandy.

    King John wasn't as bad as he was painted apparently although he did manage to get the whole country excommunicated at one point.

    Did that period of history when I was 12-13 which was about 55 years ago (blimey!).

  4. i'm sure you're right antenn - I'm probably recalling the story (with pictures) in the Ladybird book - had lots of those - it's such a long time ago it's hard to be sure.

  5. elementary_watson06 July, 2009 14:17

    Sheffpixie: I thought Richard I was mostly known as "that king Robin Hood thought would be a better regent than Prince John", i.e. that it could be argued that it's more of King Richard being somewhere in the story of Robin Hood than the other way round.

    At least, outside the UK.

    Annetan: Getting one's whole country excommunicated at one point would count as rather awesome in my book (as long as the reason is not simply "I want to be head of church myself").

    And Jay, before you consider removing my comment: I've seen the video SwiftyBoy posted in the meantime :)

  6. Afternoon, everyone. Just catching up on CiF. Any recommendations for rip-roaring threads today?

  7. elementary

    My early history education is so overlaid with stuff thats come in the eons since - films, literature, historical romance, sauntering about in whats left of Sherwood forest etc it's difficult to know what's what. Perhaps I need to do some serious reading for a change

    Talking about excommunication - have you seen David Starkey's Henry viii TV series, they were on C4 - I just watched them back to back the other night - really enjoyed them

  8. @BB:

    Dunno. I'm re-reading Max Gogarty setting off for India while "shitting himself" and Mike Read backing Boris.


  9. BB

    Haven't been over there yet - might go if I can get the strength up - its not been much fun lately.

  10. Watson - you were lucky, my cursor was hovering over the delete button....

    I think the Wildhack may have removed my admin function though, come to think of it, i've been emasculated by the feminist hordes. Oh no, my error, i think i still have admin. I can delete comments anyway i think.

  11. I had a quick flick through the gogartygate recently, Swifty, magnificent slaughter, it really was, truly magnificent. It spilled over onto about 4 different articles though as they tried to desperately defend themselves.

  12. Interesting thread from Polly today. OK, the idea of a bunch of people turning up in the Methodist Hall and talking shop and reading poetry is a bit too wussy for me. But if it raises awareness of the fact that there is a growing movement for electoral reform, so much the better.

  13. Swifty - I read Gogartygate at the time it happened. I felt bloody sorry for the poor kid, tbh. He clearly had no idea whatsoever that he was being thrown to the wolves at the time. Surely Matt, Georgina et al know the CiF commentariat well enough by now to know they would tear him limb from limb?

    Cock-up or conspiracy? ;o)

    Jay - emasculated by the feminine hordes, eh? Sounds like a fun weekend out to me.... :p

  14. BB - agreed, could be kinky.

    Gogarty - yeah wasnt the kids fault, it was hid parents and the cif editors. It was like throwing a young seal into a shark enclosure wearing a fluffy pink bow. It was only ever going to end in tears. I got to it late as well, the follow up article i think, i was quite gutted though still an absolute cif gem.

    Had a reread of barry george recently too, another classic.

    I put a link to the Polly thing on the waddya thread on friday, well a copy and paste description anyway. Polly is a big fan of JR so thats probably where she got the idea from. Thief.

  15. Aha! So really it should be your article, not hers!! Tsk.

    Plagiarism means never having to say someone else is sorry.

  16. As opposed to dyslexia, which means never having to say you're syrro...

  17. BB - this is Polly we're talking about, the pertinent point is never having to say you were wrong.

  18. Sheff

    My sentiments about Richard I are well and truly coloured by the Robin of Sherwood series in the 80s starring Michael Praed.

    Sad I know. But I still watch every re-run of that series on cable. Awesome.

  19. @BB:

    "I felt bloody sorry for the poor kid"

    Aw stop it, you're making me feel all guilty now, for only the second time in my adult life.

    In a way, I'm not sure the Travel Editor could have foreseen what a maelstrom of shit that article was going to cause. Nice middle class kid leaves North London hill and goes off for his gap yah? Probably entirely in line with what said Editor's kids, and kids' friends and schoolmates, all do/did.

  20. The travel editor must have been slightly unfamiliar with the CiF mentality. Anyone who knew the CIF crowd surely wouldnt have published it? Or maybe they hoped it wouldnt get picked up by the main horde as it was on the travel section, not the main cif page.

  21. @jay:

    Maybe, but this was back in early 2008 when CiF was a much nicer place than it is now.

    Now it's all just horrid BNPers and single-issue trolls (with some exceptions, natch).

  22. Can't say I'm a fan of methodist church halls either - but for those of you who can get to Westminster - you might want to check this out from the Vote for Change Campaign (another Londoncentric event)

    We need real change. We need to build a politics of hope and belief in our country. And we have no time to waste - as crazy as it sounds, not one MP was elected by a majority of their constituents.

    Join our campaign for electoral reform and together we can change this. On Thursday hundreds of people will be uniting at the Methodist Central Hall in Westminster. We'll be meeting at 6.30pm - and I want you to be there:

  23. I've just had a couple of truly harmless comments modded that had been up for 24 hours. Those prats are killing cif, either that or I'm not really suited to this lark.

  24. @colin:

    Or you may have someone on your case and resorting to the "Report Abuse" button.

    It's been known to happen...

  25. SwiftyBoy,
    Yeah, wouldn't be surprised after last night.

  26. @colin:

    Wasn't really referring to that, tbh, and maybe best not discussed round here.

    What thread were you on over on CiF - I only ask because some of the threads seem to suffer more than their fair share of reportings?

  27. stoaty - if your posts were in response to someone else, if they zap the originating post, they will zap your replies too. Could be that.

    Or it could be that the work-experience girl from the local comp doing the modding has got really bad PMS....

  28. "Or it could be that the work-experience girl from the local comp doing the modding has got really bad PMS...."

    Local COMP? BB, the Gruaun socialists all send their kids to private schools.

  29. It was on the Indian name change thing where I mentioned someones use of impenetrable jargon and My usual bollocks on an emmissions thing about veggies and methane. To be honest I would have modded 'em myself.
    Seen to be possessed of ennui today, do you think I might be French?

  30. "Scotland Yard's counter-terrorism command fears the extreme right will stage a deadly terrorist attack in Britain to try to stoke racial tensions, the Guardian has learned.

    Senior officers fear the attack will be a "spectacular" that is designed to kill people. The counter-terrorism unit has moved officers to beef up its monitoring of the extreme right's potential to stage attacks."

    And then further on...

    "Sources have told the Guardian that while they believe the neo-Nazi terrorist threat has grown, they have no specific intelligence of an attack."

    Is it me or are the police always stoking fears based on nothing solid these days?

  31. Jay,
    It's not you mate, they've figured that the best way to control people is to keep 'em scared.
    Also they can harrass the BNP a bit more now they've got a couple of dingbats elected.

  32. Jay - there was an article about that in the Times yesterday. Wondered when the Graun would cotton on. According to the Times, they have access to bombs and guns. Wouldn't surprise me, tbh, given that Griffin has been hinting at "the next civil war" for years now.

    What amazed me was that the Times article was commented-on almost exclusively by BNP types. The Times, ffs, that premods everything. I wondered what their agenda was

    Anyhoo - linky to article here:


  33. BB,
    Don't think the BNP would go in for that sort of thing now they are on the long march to respectability. Perhaps there is a 'Real BNP'?

  34. "Real BNP" - now they'd be a nice bunch of chaps.

    BB might know the answer to this but any answers welcome. How does the BNP "voluntary" repatriation scheme intend to deal with people who have one foreign born parent and one English born indigenous parent? This is very common, probably talking a few hundred thousand at least. Do they get shipped off too?

  35. Jay,

    I expect they'd cut them in half wouldn't they?

    "Your left leg can stay but I'm afraid your right has to go................."

  36. Jay,
    There are probably guide lines in the German parent company's paperwork from the thirties and forties.

  37. stoaty - as soon as one of theirs gets caught they distance themselves quicker than shit off a shovel. The bizarre case of Helen Forster/Colclough being a prime example:


    The BNP were going to sue the Mirror cos it was all a smear. Then they sent one of their roving reporters down to her house to interview her and even posted the interview on their website for a day or two... until some bright BNP spark realised that her saying she wasn't a BNP member while her husband was saying in the background "Yeah, she is only on a family membership" kind of shot themselves in the foot somewhat.

    Their website suddenly started carrying a "We cannot comment while this is in the hand of our lawyers" type message, but the article is still up on the Mirror website.

    I see Combat 18 as the military wing of the BNP really - the IRA to their Sinn Fein, if you like. They are so desparate to paint themselves as decent, honest and not racist at all really that they will throw anyone under the bus who shows them up for what they really are.

  38. The half half approach is probably about right, they're not the brightest sparks, maybe they'd allow them in the country 6 months per year, but wearing a badge obviously.

  39. @BB:

    Are Combat 18 "real" in the sense that the IRA were (and still could be) "real"? I mean, chain of command, organised etc?

    Or is any fascist with a grudge automatically enrolled?

  40. and how many generations?

    "Your Granddad was a foreign type: you must be out of the country for 3 months a year........."

  41. Was a chap posting with 18 after his name on cif quite recently.

  42. @colin:

    Good enough for me. Call the cops.

  43. Swifty,
    Could be part of the plot. Swanning about in full view but only recognised by each other. Wow, feel the fear.

  44. Re mixed race - they are very coy about it these days, aren't they? They won't actually pronounce on it, although mecegenation is one of their favourite words.

    God only knows what they would have in store if they ever did get into power, frankly. It would start out all nice and voluntary, but what then? Griffin already spoke about taking over the media once they got into power to "encourage" British people to see things their way. V for Vendetta springs to mind, really.

  45. Swifty - I think it is pretty much an organised thing, although to what extent I really don't know. I don't know if there is a hierarchy of command.

    The 18 comes from Adolf Hitler's initials, btw. A being the first letter of the alphabet and H being the eighth. Sometimes you see people with nicks ending in 88 as well, which is Heil Hitler. There is someone who posts on CiF from time to time called Formalhaut88.


  46. BB,
    They aren't going to get into power they are too bloody stupid. But you should continue to look under the bed at night.

  47. Now that is an odd turn around, the Russians are to allow the Yanks to fly weapons over their territory to Afghanistan.

  48. Griffin was in the same pub as the C18 thugs just before the Burnley riot. He says he was there because he got a call to say that white youths were being harassed by the police. C18 seemed to think he was there to give them his support... who knows....

    Interesting transcript here from the Beeb of interviews with Griffin as part of a documentary they did called Under The Skin in 2001.

    (You can tell this is a bit of a mission of mine, can't you? :p )


    Interesting reading.

  49. God BB don't speculate about the BNP actually getting any power, it makes me feel physically sick. Have to start contemplating taking to the hills and am rather old for that kind of life. Still my bender building experience at Greenham would be useful.

    Please don't have a go at me all you "no to single issuers" - it was a long time ago.

  50. Greenham!

    Sheff, you star!

    *bows in deference*

  51. Just got around to reading Grauniad. Interesting article about the police officer from the TSG who is being investigated for assaulting Ian Tomlinson.

    Apparently he has history. He had been accused before of using unnecessary force. He left the Met but was able to rejoin due to "vetting blunders".

    You really couldn't make it up.

  52. The TSG is just the bastard child of the SPG. It should be disbanded. End of.

  53. Just been on Gregor gall's public service thread.

    the comments are enough to make me want to get drunk! - mustn't v bad for me :( !

    I've been in the public service all my life private pensions are appalling. Its dreadfully depressing how easily people are misled into demanding, not improvements for themselves but a reduction in other people's pay and working conditions.

    Talk about false consciousness.

    Going to listen to clue - chaired by Jack Dee this week. he's no Humph but it might cheer me up.

  54. Of course, the BNP are to blame for the BNP but the big 3 parties need to take a long look in the mirror. They have taken the public for granted long enough and now many have had enough.

    This is not a bad thing in itself of course-- voting for privatising, war-launching Labour because your parents and grandparents voted for them does not a healthy democracy make-- but unfortunately less pleasant fringe parties cannot fail to benfit from the situation.

    I'm not too pessimistic about it but neither do I completely rule out the possibility that things might get very ugly indeed.

  55. Re terrorist scares- remember the red and orange 'terror risk levels' in the US after 911? It went on for years. We're in 1984 but we're watching big brother.

    Attended Gnawa trance night last night- 10pm to 8am.
    Words can't begin to describe what turned into chaotic and fun voodoo party.
    Oh yes, they do a bit of whirling but that's really your Turkish Sufi stuff...
    Further info on request.

  56. Lovely cartoon strip here a la Marjane Satrapi


  57. Voting for the BNP is the ultimate protest vote.
    In the midst of the expenses scandal so many government and opposition scoundrels were urging us not to I'm surprised they didn't do better.

  58. Oh what a surprise!

    Police end probe of 67 protesters

    Still, maybe they will be able to scratch a charge like "wasting police time" out of the others they still have on police bail...

    Czarny - of course you are right. Problem is, people voting for New Labour in 97 had no idea they were voting for Blair's Frankenstein version of a party they had known and loved for decades. How the hell they got in the second time, though, is beyond me...

    The major parties really do have to start taking the working class seriously.

  59. BB
    Panorama @8 tonight, covering policing at protests - may be interesting.

  60. Thanks MsC - will watch that.

  61. Hank

    Been looking back through various threads for your email. Haven't found it yet. Here's mine..


    Give us an email

  62. That panorama was actually quite interesting, but didn't really go far enough, unfortunately.

    The film "Taking Liberties (Since 1997)" is brilliant on the subject, for anyone who hasn't seen it. Although anyone who is interested in civil liberties will probably end up screaming at the screen by the end of it.


  63. BB

    Not bad - a bit flashily cut. I thought the two police officers were quite defensive and the one from acpo got quite rattled at the end.

    I think I'll give Taking Liberties a miss tonight - don't want to go to bed all wound up and spitting feathers!

  64. @BB:

    Interesting about Combat 18, thanks for that. Still reckon I'd take my chances with them over the Provos, to be honest.