28 July 2010


Mahogany Glider - uncredited

The belief in a supernatural source of evil is not necessary; men alone are quite capable of every wickedness.
-Joseph Conrad


  1. Morning all! Last night's thread made me feel old!

    But then I can remember this!!!

    OMG those circular skirts, and bobby sox and a pony tail!


  2. Blimey, a real-life beanie baby.


  3. Morning all,

    Speedkermit (from last night),

    'Why can't I touch it?' is an absolute classic. It does go on forever. Pete Shelley never wanted the Buzzcocks to be pigeonholed as '2 minute punk thrashers' so he always threw one or two experimental numbers into the albums.

    'Moving away from the pulsebeat' from the first album is another example.


    Pere Ubu are great as well. My better half has been listening to a lot of the Tom Tom Club and I've got into them recently. Especially the eponymous first album.


    can anyone work out how the hell this lad does it? I've watched it 20 times now and I still cannot work it out.

  4. Yeah Thauma - second that - amazing Philippa a classic in fact. I'll never look at all that champagne spraying in the same way again. In fact (LOL!) I won't look at champagne in the same way again!

  5. @Duke

    I think I saw the first incarnation of Tom Tom Club when Chris Frantz and Tina Weymouth plus a few extras played in the intervals of a Talking Heads tour circa 1981. Rather to the bemusement of the crowd, including me.

    And that penalty's great. Hitting it with what should be the standing foot is a classic dummy I haven't seen before.

  6. heheheheheheheheh.

    couldn't resist it.

    blimey, your grace - looks like england are going to have some trouble with spain in the semi-finals...

  7. ah - missed match. england did have some trouble with spain in the semi-finals (3-1).

  8. anyway - work calls, later...

  9. Tom Tom Club were a 'political' response to Byrne and Eno taking ownership of production of Speaking in Tongues. According to one biog Weymouth couldn't even recognise some of her bass parts when she heard the master tapes; she was furious and set up TTC as a way of counterracting Byrne's dominance. There was a lot of animosity and bitterness. Julie Burchil has written a lot of interesting pieces over the decades about Talking Heads - easily my favourite US New Wave band.

    By the way - best punk record ever ?

    Babylon's Burning.

    Best British new Wave act ?

    Ian Dury.


  10. Work calls here too... bugger. Some excellent music postings last night !

  11. Bitterweed,

    thanks for the Tom Tom Club info. I knew that Weymouth and Frantz didn't get along with Byrne.


    you're making me jealous with all this seeing Talking Heads in 81 ;)

    An interesting fact about Byrne is that although he emigrated to the States from Scotland with his family when he was five, he's never become a US citizen. A really awkward bugger if the stories are all true.

    Also that penalty- how do you do that? I'm going to try it when I get home. It'll probably end the same way as when I tried Higuita's scorpion trick in 95- a sprained back and ibuprofen.

  12. I second (third) the praise for your comment on the F1 thread, Philippa, and would like to ask you if you would take me with you for a clubbing night - your nights out sound as exciting as I wish mine to be ;-)

  13. Duke
    Ha ha. I reckon I'd break my leg trying that pen.

  14. Don't normally get off on celebrations, but this clearly took a lot of working out. Made I chuckle.


  15. Same for humans!

    Politicians of all hues seem to overlook the obvious in the indecent rush to introduce mass insecurity for people......When pigs get really stressed they get savage and eat each other.

    Duke - caution my friend. A strangulated bollock could be the result!

    BW - hope your mum has a great 70th at the weekend.

  16. I saw that penalty video yesterday and I would like to add a WTF to the chorus.

    Philippa that was a great comment, I think you should send in a nice spoof article to Jess and see if she bites, something like why my love of Nuts magazine doesn't make me a bad feminist.

    I would also like to agree with BW, last nights thread was a great bit of musical nostalgia.

    Wow I am in an agreeable mood today, if anyone wants to borrow money now is the time to ask. ;)

  17. Sheff/Chin (and others with a long memories of last years posts) Me granddaughter visited the Moore exhibition and insists that I have to go.........

    Henry Moore (and deano's dad) at the Tate Modern!!

    ".... The coalmining drawings formed another significant series. Commissioned by the Artists Advisory Committee, Moore chose to observe miners at the coalface in Wheldale Colliery, where his late father had worked. Though such studies of the male figure are unique in his art, the sense of claustrophobia had been seen before and the theme of the vulnerable and battered body would reappear in Moore's sculptures of the following decade...."

    ....so I've got a trip to London before it closes on August 8th to plan!!!

  18. Correction: Tate Britain!

  19. David Byrne, Embra Playhouse '92(?) Top Gig!

    Loved the cartoon of David Byrne, in the Amazon, searching for authentic tunes, he parts the log grass and finds... Paul Simon!

  20. Fingers crossed for the job turm!. Hope it turns out as you would wish it.

  21. @turminder

    I think I caught that tour in London - was it the first Brazilian one, with the amazing woman singer and the huge backing band?

  22. Thanx Deanno! I don't want the job, just the full time wage!

    Yeah PeterJ excellent gig, he did over half an hour just him and an accoustic guitar, in front of the curttain, under a bare inspection bulb. Just when you were resigned to seeing a solo gig the curtain fell away to reveal the 20 piece band on chrome risers. The place went wild!

  23. Stop Making Sense Anyone else think this is a great rock movie ?

    I have the DVD - It doesn't quite have the impact it did at the movies in 1984, but by Christ those boys and girls were on fire ! (And some of them, I have it on very good authority, weren't always averse to a pre-show tune-up with Senior Bolivian Nose-B'tang!

    It shows.


  24. Cheers Deano, got the best table at her fave restaurant booked. Should be a good one.

  25. Stop Making Sense was superb. I think it's the great rock movie.

  26. SMS is fantastic, should be obligatory viewing for all aspiring bands...

  27. They just shut the last waddya, was it something I said? ; )

  28. Morning all,

    (Just parking):

    "For a change, I'd like to talk about moderation.

    I'd sort of promised not to bother again, what with it being officially the most ignored request in the history of the internets and that, but then, you see, the Sally Bercow thread happened.

    And, unless the moderation policy has now been changed to some form of 'Don't say anything unless you've got something nice to say', there are a good many posts on that thread that have been deleted, without breaching any of your, *ahem*, 'standards'.

    Indeed, given that I thought the whole thing was a bit of an indictment of everything that seems to have gone wrong with the Guardian, it seems somewhat fitting, that this comment, along with many others, seems to have been subject to a rather arbitrary and excessive BTL cull.

    Now, I appreciate that the author, and indeed the "article", are 'multiple box tickers', and therefore part of the shiny new business plan for GMG, but, seriously, how long do you think you can continue to post that kind of pap, moderate anyone who points this out, and expect not to become an absolute laughing stock?

    It would be funny, if it wasn't the name of the once great Guardian that you were dragging into the gutter, and if it wasn't so goddam bloody tragic!!"

  29. Sally Bercow is a complete fucking knob head.

    This is the only comment needed.

    It's certainly one of the greats. I'm still very fond of Woodstock. But if I'm honest it's got to be Let It Be. (sniff... sob... why lads ?!)

  30. Bitters,

    "Sally Bercow is a complete fucking knob head.

    This is the only comment needed"


    See, I tried to be a bit more diplomatic than that, but got moderated anyway, so maybe I should have gone with that in the first place....

  31. Good article on the Llanelli martyrs (1911). Very good reply, Duke, to the idiots who just don't get the importance of remembering where we come from.

    AS the poster sospan said - those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it - with a name like that I'm guessing he comes from Llanelli

  32. Typical of Sally Bercow (there are many examples to choose from) - on Question Time recently she characterised Andrew Lansley as being a "little boy with a brand new toy" (ref the NHS white paper) - and like all little boys with brand new toys - he's "determined to break it." That's all she could muster...

    What an embarassment. He'd shadowed Health for five years before getting into power. He'd clearly had these plans long gestating (although they didn't appear anywherein the manifesto). There is much the public doesn't know or understand about the tories plans for health, and here's the thing - I would have thought a public national platform like QT would be a good place to start unpacking them; especially for an upcoming Labour lobbyist like Bercow. But no. She made some pathetic off the cuff remark; clearly hadn't even read the two page synopsis of the white paper, and yet expected respect and applause.

    She is a very apropriate face of CiF - twittering public school gobshite with no insight but a priviledged position to shower all us poor unsuspecting media consumers with her wisdom.

    Total new lab arsewit = Perfect CiF Commentator.

  33. James, I reckon anything *would* get deleted mate

  34. @James;

    While I've been back to the Bercow thread a few times, on my return visits I've only read the comments that appeared after my most recent. A couple of people seemed to take offence at the fact that I'd found the article offensive, so I hadn't noticed the moderation. Oddly, my first comment is still standing. I'd have thought that, if any comments were going to be deleted, that one would have gone.

  35. "She is a very apropriate face of CiF - twittering public school gobshite with no insight but a priviledged position to shower all us poor unsuspecting media consumers with her wisdom.

    Total new lab arsewit = Perfect CiF Commentator"

    Amen to that.

    (My comment that got deleted, was something along the lines of:

    'Wow - If I could choose just one article to highlight everything that's (gone) wrong with the Guardian/cif, it'd have to be this one!')

  36. The thread is great that Pratt psalmist needs to remember another good saying.

    When you are in a hole - stop digging

    He's being roundly flamed by some very good posters though!

    Makes a change!

  37. Montana

    Yeah, I checked the thread at about 4 am GMT, and everything looked pretty intact, but between then and now, it's all gone a bit daft.

    My comment (see above) was actually rather tame, and it didn't make explicit reference to the author (although it was implied),but hey, them's the breaks I guess....

    Still, it's a bit of an indictment when a thread about F1 starts to look like an IP thread BTL though, I would say....

  38. You have honestly got to wonder what the feck she was thinking when she wrote that article, did she do it off her own back or was she asked?

    If it was the first you have to just assume she is a complete idiot with no idea how it would be taken, I mean if that is genuinely the kind of crap that fills her head then I am amazed she manages to remember to breathe.

    If Cif asked her to do it then she is still an idiot but naive beyond belief as well, the article was only ever going to be a complete trainwreck.

  39. Would anyone like to write a short essay on water transport in plants for me (1000 words, more than you get on Cif ;) ).

    I am sure it is a fascinating miracle of nature etc but it's a bloody boring one.

  40. Tory Oxford girl, who got sacked out by Oxford for not doing any work and getting pissed, and then sharing banana with a male stripper, sent off to Swiss finishing School, now bigging up Ed Balls - she is an approved-listed Labour Party prospective candidate, and "believes in all-women shortlists."

    What a fucking nightmare of a party they've become.

  41. James

    You can e-mail the mods and ask for an explanation as to why you were deleted.I think i,ve had 3 posts re-instated on appeal now.Address your e-mail to ADAM as he usually responds and so far has always played fair with me.


    The ATOS article will be out tomorrow on CIF.Dunno whether i,ll be able to contribute as i,m currently drowning in self pity in me sick bed.But will be interesting to see what they have to say.And whether the mods will be heavily policing the BTL replies.Plus all the BTL fascists who no doubt will be arguing that 'Work Sets You Free'.And that most people claiming disability benefits are skiving.

  42. Jen,

    I wonder if she woke up this morning, popped the PC on, expecting to see hundreds of supportive and assuring responses, saw the reality, and then made a rather desperate call to Guardian HQ:

    'One does not like this kind of thing, don'tcha know!? Please remove all offending remarks immediately and forthwith, or I shall once again be forced into my old lifestyle of excessive drinking and anonymous one night stands, ok yah!?'

    Also, I'm afraid I can't help with your essay, what with me being a complete science dunce. Good luck though....


  43. Dare I read the article about 'jam rags'?

  44. There you go Jen. Although it'll probably not pass a plagarism test...

  45. Bitterweed

    Indeed. She is quite possibly, the poster girl for the whole New Labour project, as well as the new shiny cif!!


    Have e-mailed the moderation 'team' already, though not anyone specific. I think it's fair to say that I'm not holding my breath...


    (Hope you feel better soon!!)

  46. Thanks Turm but my tutor wouldn't need a plagarism test to know that wasn't my usual waffle. ;)

  47. Jen

    Quick question: with an OU course, do you get access to all the online doodahs what have academic articles and journals and whatnot?

  48. Jen,

    Love to, just WOSd it (well used keywords evapotranspiration and xylem) and got a fascinating article by Brodribb et. al. 2010, sadly don't really have time but this info might be a start? Do you have access to journals?

  49. Hello all!

    Now I've seen it all, Sunny Hundal on CiF defending the EDl's 'democratic right' to start a race riot in Bradford.

    What a fucking arsewipe he is.

  50. On a more polite note - Montana - serendipity with your quote, I've just started reading Nostromo ;)

  51. The really weird thing about the OU is that they state that you are not allowed to use any sources that they haven't provided ie their rubbish books and the odd article they send you.

    I am only onto level 2 so that may change at level 3.

    It is frustrating as hell because they layout their books in such an odd way and the info in them is sometimes out of date.

    I assume they have their reasons but I have got to say I am a bit disillusioned with the whole thing, my last essay was done in about two hours and I had a terrible hangover but by more or less rearranging the words in a couple of chapters of one book I got marked at 80%, I don't think the standards are very high and I am not learning much.

    I will have to remember to ask Jay if it is different for the humanities courses.

  52. jen,


    But, er, um, that defies the whole f*cking point of, well, everything!

    I'm speechless!

  53. James,

    I got modded for calling Sting a cunt on the police thread last night.

    What's the world come to when you get modded for swatting the wasp from the sweet apple of truth?

  54. Exactly Dot, it isn't that I can't do the essay it is that I am bored by it all, this one in particular is dull because the only information I have to work with is one chapter, half of which is irrelevant.

    They set the info out in a very disjointed way and it seems like all they want from you it to juggle it into some semblance of the right order.

  55. Duke
    Should have said "Great Big Two Faced Beardy Cunt"; they might not have noticed.

  56. jen,

    You need to put a bomb under your tutors: I cannot remember a time in my science education, (from primary school to PhD and beyond) when I wasn't encouraged to read around the topic/outside the course materials.

  57. Bad luck Jen. I am also working away to deadlines, tomorrow at least, but what I am doing is somewhat more simpler

  58. 'ternoon all

    re: modding. I got modded for saying "bye" to a homophobe yesterday.....but obviously they were quite happy to leave his posts.....

  59. James,

    that's the one.


    There was a brilliant Viz competition a few editions ago to 'celebrate' the release of Sting's new wine range.

    You had to name Sting's new wine and they gave examples such as 'Chateau Twateau' and vin d'arsehole

    They would then send all the entries to Sting for him to choose a winner.

  60. Splendid Duke !

    Côtes Du Ballbag ?

  61. Chateau Neuf du Twunt


    Cabernet Wank

  62. Shitdribble Sauvignon ?

    Perve Cliquot ?

  63. (N)Asti(trudidoesmeupthebum) Spumante??

  64. ***Health and Safety Tip***

    if you or your loved ones accidentally swallow domestos or poison, simply click on Sting and Trudie's Tuscan interview here to bring about an emergency emesis.

    Gents, I think we should collate these fine name suggestions and send them en masse to stingwine.com or whatever it's called.

  65. Actually, I got his web address wrong. Apparently .com was used up as were most other country codes. The first unused country code he could find was the Cook Islands. So the web address is actually:


  66. F@ck me Duke ! That's a thirteen bucket emetic that one....

    "The olive groves are one of Sting’s favorite spots on the estate’s grounds. During the last harvest, he even lent a hand. “I’d never picked an olive before,” he says. “I saw them doing it, and I thought, ‘I’ll join in.’ I got a basket. I started picking. I filled a basket.” He laughs. “Very therapeutic.”

  67. Oh Duke how could you? I just read some of that interview - and I was indeed nearly sick.

    Paul - hope you get better soon. Think that the Atos thread might be bad for ones health if not feeling fully up to scratch!

    Deano that exhibition looks fascinating.

  68. Right, well, the moderation issue's been sorted.
    Just received this e-mail:

    "Hi James,

    I understand you have issues with moderation from your posts on the subject, but I've looked at the comment and I'm at a loss as to why you can't see the problem.

    You said:


    If I could only pick one article to sum up everything that's (gone) wrong with the Guardian/cif, I think it'd have to be this one!!


    *slow hand clap!!

    That is completely off topic and in addition, it's pretty rude. I'm sorry if you disagree but I think it was right to come down."

    Well, obviously....

  69. Oh lordy. The other half has just nearly invited a Safestyle rep in to ''measure up and give you a free quote''. I had to come along and play bad cop - feel bad because they are paid on commission but after once witnessing my mum and dad nearly in tears after two hours of hard sell and a rep who wouldn't take no for an answer - I felt it was for the best.

  70. James - I don't think that comment should have been modded. It wasn't rude. Rude! It was fairly polite considering.

  71. James

    "That is completely off topic and in addition, it's pretty rude."

    This is itself indicative of the prissy, preppy little tossers they pay min wage to make all those deletions and CiF all happy happy happy.

    Don't know why you bother mate. They're areswits to a man.

  72. Bitterweed:

    "They're areswits to a man."

    Please, this is the Guardian: 51.36% of them are women, to exactly reflect the gender makeup of the UK

  73. Bitters,

    "Don't know why you bother mate"

    No, I don't think I do either. 'cept maybe that definition of insanity thing...

  74. According to the London Evening Standard Theresa May is going to scrap ASBOs.Instead she is urging local communities to tackle anti-social behavior themselves.WTF!!! The decent majority of people are too fucking scared to take on the yobs themselves.And if you,re talking about kids she clearly hasn,t tried talking to the parents who in many cases will tell you to 'fuck off'if you complain.And will be the first to label you a 'grass' if you then complain to the authorites.

    So the ConDems are not only shafting those communities where the problem of anti-social behavior is worset with swingeing public sector cuts and mass unemployment.They,re also replacing the real police with these pretend police-pcso,s or whatever they,re called-who are near as damnit useless.And to add insult to injury they,re expecting ordinary people to face down the yobs themselves.And risk getting killed or beaten up in the process.

    The ASBOs have too often become a status symbol for youngsters.And the Courts are clearly reluctant to enforce them.But expecting communities to simply deal with the problem without giving them the backup to do it is plain daft.IMHO of course.

    Right i really do need to go off into a quiet corner and die.

  75. PCC

    "I don't think that comment should have been modded. It wasn't rude. Rude! It was fairly polite considering."

    Hehe - thanks.

    It was considerably more polite than the first two drafts were too...


  76. Paul
    Pretty scary. I reckon the Mail on Sunday'll be giving give out free tazers with every issue soon.

  77. Hello All

    Paul et al

    ASBOs - we have never really had a definition of anti social behaviour. Some kids pulling flowers from a neighbour's garden to a baying mob catcalling outside somebody's house all seem to have been included.

    As to some of the parents - I wouldn't like to challenge them.

    Yesterday after stand on brakes, heart stopping moment son got out of car to lift 3 year old and flashy bike onto pavement - got rushed at by rabid mother accusing him of 'touching her child' I just despair sometimes.

  78. "Now I've seen it all, Sunny Hundal on CiF defending the EDl's 'democratic right' to start a race riot in Bradford."

    I'm no fan of Sunny Hundal's, but he's right on this matter. I mean, if I were to suggest that Gay Pride should be banned from marching for their rights on the grounds it might provoke homophobes you'd be up in arms. Well, just because you don't support the EDL is no cause to ban it, La Rit.

    That totalitarian streak in sections of the Left is difficult to shift.

    I don't question the potential for violence; but the target for neutralising the violence should not be the marchers - it should be those attempting to stop it.

    The malcontents, after all, can organise their own march next week, should they so desire.

  79. jennifera30 15.21said...
    The really weird thing about the OU is that they state that you are not allowed to use any sources that they haven't provided ie their rubbish books and the odd article they send you.
    Dotterel 15.35 -- seconded. But if the course tutors go along with it, what on earth does it say about them ?
    That is more than weird, jen30, that is the opposite of anything approaching university-level studies, or any other bloody studies for that matter . That you can get 80% with a bit of juggling and paraphrasing shows that it is just a 'factory' . I reckon that you think your effort was worth 60% at most .
    On second thoughts there might very possibly be an argument for limiting access to sources, just to see how the student might, with an effort of thinking, go beyond them and produce something of her own . But you could only do that properly in exam conditions, and even then much would depend on the student's previous wide thinking and reading .
    All depends on the subject ....too ?
    PS Looked at the Sally Bercow thread -- well done PhilippaB for the brilliant piss-take ! ------ what an awful creature it is . That such an insignificant shallow person can be taken seriously by any Political Party bodes ill for it ...

  80. Haha - just found this on the Channel Four news website:

    "Unlike the Oxbridge duo of Nick and Dave presently running the country on behalf of those trained to lead, Labour has spread its net wide and only five out of the five candidates to take Gordon's mantle went to Oxford or Cambridge".


    "The excitement of the campaign is clearly catching. The Society of Labour Lawyers asked its 598 members who they wanted to back. Forty-eight replied."

    and, finally....

    "Favourite David Miliband says he should have the job because he is ready to tell the party home truths about why they lost the election....

    He also thinks he should get the job because he is older than his brother Ed and so if he doesn’t he will tell their mam!!"

  81. Oh lord. I really seem to have upset some little girl who calls herself vigdis on the Bercow thread. Seems she likes to watch F1 for the "cute looking guys" and thinks I shouldn't take myself so seriously (first time in a long time that I've been accused of that...)

  82. Greetings from sunny Norfolk. What are the odds that the following will come to a water butt near us soon...

    Collecting Rainwater Now Illegal In Many States In USA

    Phillipa - you were a hoot on the F1 thread!!

  83. evening all.

    Perve Cliquot.
    Bitterweed wins, for me...

    Chateauneuf de Crap?

    Am very disappointed that Sally has not been in touch to discuss the finer points of feminist theory. Thought we were really on the same wavelength there. Ho hum.

  84. Montana - good points on the Bercow thread, thought. As ever, there's a decent debate to be had under the shockingly bad quality of the offering.

    Unfortunately, having started off focussing on the 'shockingly bad' side of things, it was difficult to recalibrate to 'serious'...

    Bloody confused by the 'jam rags' thread. Took me ages to work out why people were talking about 'mice', but that's TSS for you...

  85. Just took a look at the jam rags thread. I seem to have led a very sheltered life. Quim??

  86. Oh, and thanks, Philippa. I enjoyed your comment, but obviously found the article itself just a bit too irritating to laugh it off. What I am amused by right now is why this vigdis person has made such a crusade of responding to my comments.

    I suppose she's right that the article is fluff -- it's just that that doesn't seem to have been the author's intent.

  87. 'Come all without, come all within, you've not seen nothin' like the mighty Quim'??

  88. I trawled all the way through the jamrags thread to ensure that no-one else had posted 'Dracula's teabags' before I did... but someone had... 13th Duke... :o)

  89. Sorry Montana did you say she watches F1 for the cute guys?

    The ones who are covered from head to toe?

    What's wrong with the athletics?

    She is weird.

  90. @James:

    You mean that song's not really about an Eskimo?

    Seriously. I have never heard the word 'quim' until today -- it never would have occured to me that that song was about anything else.

  91. frog2

    You are absolutely right it isn't any kind of University standard education really, I actually did two years of a Microbiology degree a few years ago (I really wish that I had stuck with it now, :( ) and I don't think I would have submitted the essay I got 80% for in the first year never mind the second.

    I am no kind of genius and none of my other marks are over 70% but that is with practically no effort on my part.

    I am going to finish this course, which does have an exam at the end, but after that I don't think I will do another.

  92. Montana - your points on the Bercow thread were well made. Haven't looked again since this morning, though.

    Tampon thread quite amusing, I thought.


    That totalitarian streak in sections of the Left is difficult to shift.

    That's rich, coming from a New Labour apologist. New Labour, the most totalitarian government we've had since, oh, at least 1832.

    Still, I mainly agree with your point. Except that the issue reminds me of the fucking Orangemen marching through Catholic areas every July just to stir up trouble. As they (the Orangemen) have a history of stirring up trouble, I think their permission to march through certain areas should be refused.

    As far as I'm aware, the EDL don't have quite the same history, so it should be allowed (this time) but heavily policed. And not by the Met.

  93. Montana

    According to the Urban Dictionary the definition of quim is

    The noun quim was a Victorian-era word that was used specifically to refer to the fluids produced by the vagina, specifically during orgasm. In modern usage it is primarily heard in British slang and is a derogatory or vulgar term for the vagina itself. The word is rarely used today in English slang but used in Wales as an insult rather than the above meaning. The word may be related to Welsh 'cwm' meaning 'hollow' or 'valley'.

    I remember it being used back in the 60's but it seems to have fallen out of favour these days.

  94. Yes, Jenn. She apparently does. This was the second comment she directed at me in defence of Bercow:

    Or you could take the view that perhaps it is a serious issue to her. Not on a par with the other issues you mention, obviously, but nevertheless worthy of comment.

    We deride certain countries for the way they treat their women as second-class citizens, but are quite happy to confine females to the grid to stand as scantily dressed sex objects - pure decoration - eye candy. So much more liberating isn't it? Not my view - but it is a view that some would take, so maybe you should not be so dismissive?

    Personally, I enjoy Formula 1 very much for what it is - fast cars and really cute looking guys.

  95. Montana

    Haha- I think the song is Quinn, but my friends and I used to sing the Quim version, and find it ever so hilarious...

    As mentioned on here before though, there is a Portuguese Goalkeeper called Quim, who, I have to say, makes me laugh whenever he's on TV here, particularly when the commentator says stuff like:

    'He calmly decides to go back to Quim'


    If it's any consolation, I'd never heard the Dracula's teabags thing before you mentioned it!

  96. PeterB

    You'll no doubt be pleased to hear that shitdribble Purnell has been made the new chair of the IPPR.

  97. Ah, thanks, Sheff. I shall never think of Cwm Rhondda the same way. (And it's my favourite hymn melody. Good think I stopped going to church.)

    Thauma, do take another look at the Bercow thread. For someone who told me I was taking things too seriously, vigdis sure has been dogged in her responses to me. Kind of funny, really.

  98. Just added a photo of a rather unexpected visitor to the Ladies' during the open-air Shakespeare... definite ah-factor - as long as you remained beyond smelling distance!

  99. turge:

    'New Labour, the most totalitarian government we've had since, oh, at least 1832.'

    The dimmest slice of ahistorical fuckwittery I've seen in a while. Thanks.

    'As far as I'm aware, the EDL don't have quite the same history, so it should be allowed (this time) but heavily policed.'

    I'm sure the EDL and every other campaigning marcher that escapes the turge's forensic censure will feel suitably obliged.

  100. Bracken, your wit astounds me.

  101. Hi Montana

    Don,t worry about vigdis.Strikes me she may be one of Bercows galpals 'planted' there to give her support.Nowt wrong with any of your posts.

    @Philippa-just wanna add my congrats for your excellent post yesterday evening on the Bercow thread.:-)

  102. Paul

    I thought that too, also does anyone outside of Hannah Montana seriously use the phrase 'really cute looking guys'?

  103. jennifera30 said... frog2 --

    You are absolutely right it isn't any kind of University standard education really, I actually did two years of a Microbiology degree a few years ago (I really wish that I had stuck with it now, :( ) and I don't think I would have submitted the essay I got 80% for in the first year never mind the second.

    What the hell, stick with it it and at least it keeps those brain-cells ticking over ! Check out the usefulness of micro-biology on oil-spills HERE

  104. Jen - only Yanks as far as I know. And not many are into F1, so it's all a bit suspicious.

  105. Evening all


    Would you like to give us an example of a more totalitarian government in the UK since 1832? With authorities in support? You know, instead of just saying "I'm right you're wrong ner ner ner".

    Re the EDL - given what they were up to in Dudley recently, I am surprised they are being permitted to march through Bradford.

    Why is it that a bunch of trustafarian hippies at a climate camp get kettled and beaten for doing nowt at all, yet skin-head football hooligans and combat 18-ers get to rampage, throw stuff at the police, wreck a Hindu temple (presumably the thought it was a mosque), incite racial hatred with chants about "Pakis" and Hitler salutes and are virtually left to get on with it?

  106. frog 2

    Thanks I have bookmarked that, but having skimmed it I was amazed to find that they are using a known human carcinogen (which is happily also toxic to animals) as a dispersant.

    There is just so much stupidity in the world. :(

  107. @princess/leni

    According to the latest statistics 686,000 people were tested for ESA between Oct 2008-Nov 2009.Of these 39% were found to be fit for work so didn,t qualify.And a further 37% withdrew their claims before completing the assessment.
    So the Daily Mail,Daily Telegraph and other right wing papers are now claiming that 76% of all Incapacity Benefit claimants are capable of work.And of the remainder 14% were transferred to the 'Work-related activity group' which means they get ESA on the basis that they are too ill to work at the moment.But must attend 5 work related interviews on the basis they will eventually be able to work.4% of claims have still not been completed whilst only the remaining 6% qualify for the highest rate of ESA and are put into the 'Support Group' where they basically left alone by the DWP.

    It,s quite clear the government will use these statistics to attempt to make some serious reductions in the amount spent on disability benefits.And ATOS may incorporate them in whatever BS they come out with on CIF tomorrow.Dunno whether i,ll be up to a getting too involved with the thread but i thought you might find these stats useful.

  108. @thauma

    'Vigdis' is an Icelander name, and they tend to pick up US idiom (is that huge airbase at Keflavik still there?). Of course, it could also be a Hendon brickie.

  109. Paul

    I have been looking at various stats on this - I have a list of questions I want to ask - will depend on article and whether writer comes down among the plebs to answer.

    I will be out for part of the day tomorrow but will obviously do my best.

    There are obviously problem around the epected job cuts - public sector will be mainly in already deprived areas. These areas are also more dependent upon gvt and EU funding and likely to miss out there/

    This is why I want an overall- rather than piecemeal - approach from cif.

    Hope you are soon feelng better. xx

  110. Hope you are feeling better Paul. :)

  111. Hi Jenni

    Keep on rearranging the paragraphs - it will at least show you have understood the material you were given to work with.

    It does seem a very limited and limiting approach - mind I have seen first year material from conventional unis - they seem to work on the premise that the majority of students are both semi literate and never been introduced to the concepts of simple arithmetic.

  112. jen30 -- one of my daily-visit bookmarks too !

    Paul --- 'capable of work" , but there ain't any ---- Grrrr, and that is no basic change for many for twenty years now.

  113. frog

    We have that problem here - exminers now in late 50s - no jobs on the horizon.

  114. Re the OU - it doesn't sound that different from some full time Uni courses I've come across. Was decidedly underwhelmed by the nursing coursing course my daughter did, the bioscience in particular was very sketchy - no practical work at all, didn't get near a microscope!

    Most of her theory consisted of sociology and psychology, Cheaper of course.

  115. Leni/Jen

    Thanks for the good wishes.

    As you know the highest proportion of working age people currently on Incapacity Benefit and facing the ATOS medicals for ESA are to be found in the most deprived areas.And many of them likely to be declared for SOME form of work won,t actually have a cat,s chance in hell of actually gettin work because-

    1)There aren,t any jobs

    2)They have genuine health problems which are likely to be met with prejudice from prospective employers.Especially those with MH problems.

    3)The length of time they may have been on Incapacity Benefit and out of the Labour Market means employers won,t touch them with a barge pole.So those declared fit for SOME form of work may be either left languishing in the dole queue and/or bullied into going on state job training schemes which lead nowhere.

    As Professor Gregg said unless the government handle this properly it may actually cost them more in the long term.So no saving!

    Anyway good luck tomorrow if i don,t 'see' you.

  116. Paul/Leni - Link to the evidence report prepared by the CAB on the ESA work capability assessment. It's dated March but still interesting - the evidence reports are compiled from social policy evidence submitted by individual CABx, so generally well respected and taken seriously.

  117. I have a friend like that leni, he's been in and out of low paid factory work since the 80's - he's hanging on to his pride by his fingernails!

    Makes me want to weep!

    When are the people of this country going to realise that Tories and their power hungry friends don't care if the poor suffer. 'Our Country' doesn't mean yours and mine thats for sure!

  118. Re ATOS

    I have to write in to the Bar Standards Board apparently to find out whether they will agree to me being involved in giving advice online - or at what level it would be within the codes of conduct. I phoned last week but I haven't taken the time to do much about it since, with one thing and another.

    I will try and get something off to them at the weekend.

  119. Paul - get well soon!

    Take care of yourself x

  120. Leni

    I agree with you that CIF needs to approach this in a holistic way rather than piecemeal.But for reasons we can only speculate on they clearly don,t want too. x

    @Hi Anne-hope all,s ok with the move.

    @Hi Shaz

    Nite all

  121. anne

    Sad indeed - te older miners are hanging onto their pride best they can - much of it by remembering days long gone. All those skills, that ability to work long , hard hours and that solidarity just cut away as uselss. It really angers me.

    Now - in the next round of savagery they, and their families, will suffer again.

  122. BB

    might be interested there's a thread on home schooling............

  123. gandolfo - I just had a post-beer and off-topic rant on it.

  124. gandolfo - I saw that, yeah.

    Was wondering what to post, and thought "meh, whatevs".

    The thing about Home Schooling is that it means the government have no control over what your child is learning - the LEA is delighted that we are putting our lad through GCSEs and have left us alone since. But other parents don't follow the Prescribed Model and teach their kids what they feel will be useful to them, in a kind of Steiner way I suppose. Which is fine too - except it means they are not training children to be fodder for Capital... :P

    I will give it a proper read later.

  125. Heh - I'll take a look at your rant, Shaz :o)

  126. When are the people of this country going to realise that Tories and their power hungry friends don't care if the poor suffer.

    Annetan40 -- so it's no bloody change from Nu Lab, so why even bother using the word " Tories" ?

  127. Good evening/afternoon/morning .. did anyone see the Llanelli thread on CiF?

  128. h Martyn

    i see you're in the pink again !

    have not yet looked ar Llanelli thread - will do so.

  129. BB shaz
    seems to me (I don't know the details of the events leading up to the death of Khyra Ishaq) that this was really a social services issue rather than a home education one. The girl was at risk before she was pulled out of mainstream education, surely that alone would have set the alarm bells ringing even more, added to this a lack of inter agency communication between SS and Ed services...

  130. I think 'Arse Creek' just won it for me.

  131. La Ritournelle

    "... Sunny Hundal on CiF ... What a fucking arsewipe he is. "

    I have disagreed with Sunny in the past, I don't think he is so bad, he just gets it wrong from time to time, like we all do. However, given that Sunny is apparently not adverse to respond to racism, in no uncertain terms .. I wonder if his message is along the lines of "bring it on, if you think you are tough enough"?

  132. gandolfo - from what I've read, I would agree entirely. Seems to me that the biggest problem was the ease with which Angela Gordon managed to get Social Services to back off.

  133. Leni

    It's not a bad piece, I liked it, not really sure how relevant (if really at all) it is for now, and all the challenges there are (with all due respect to the people Llanelli and their history of course). Two people killed in Llanelli by the state in 100 years (whilst still being a heinous crime) seems like a quiet afternoon for the left who remember the brutality of life in Franco's Spain.

  134. Catalonia's parliament has voted to ban bullfighting - ¡Ole Catalunya!

  135. Hey martyn

    Gandolpho and Shaz - yep, I agree that the reason the parents probably pulled her out of school was because they were aware the abuse was beginning to show. But the sosh were already involved and shouldn't have been frightened off.

    Such a terrible case. But not one that can be blamed on home schooling. You can't legislate for horrible people behaving badly in every single circumstance, no matter how hard you try.

  136. martyn

    Yes, great news about the bullfighting. :o)

  137. Evening all (been a long,long day).
    Re the EDL, I actually agree with Sunny Hundal and Peter Bracken on this (must be a blue moon or summat...). They are actually small in number and full of piss and wind. Their last big march was in Newcastle a couple of months back, and of course a countermarch was planned too (we also had an Orangemen march the same day, and a Union demo...). The city centre was in lockdown pretty much, shedloads of police everywhere, in full rig, guns too.Officers shipped in from all over, inc lots from the Met.
    What happened? Bit of shouty crap from the 60 or so EDLers, them getting chased around town by the 100 or so anti-fascist crew, the coppers mainly standing by clocking up tasty overtime, with an energetic few of them bothering to try and step between the EDLers and the anti-fascists.Loads of confused and pissed-off shoppers, the EDL embarrassed by their damp squib and evident lack of public support, the anti-fascists happy at having had a run, and leading the police on a wild goose chase with some dummy moves, the police happy at the overtime bonuses.
    More seriously, banning the EDL infringes on the right to assemble and to free speech (n.b. Peter B, those are among the rights that New lab did erode,blanket fashion, more than any other peacetime govt in living memory:not totalitarian, but factor in the mass surveillance apparatus, add the database state and the structure for totalitarianism was needlessly but deliberately created on Lab's watch). Simply police 'em carefully and step in, in a strict fashion as soon as they step out of line. Banning creates martyrs, and gives outlaw chic. Let 'em march and show themselves as the not-at-all-popular sad crew they are.

  138. Here they call themselves the EWDL where W= Wales.

    The small bunch I saw in Swansea last year looked like plain - ugly even - hooligans making idiots of themselves. i think they are the foot soldiers of the BNP - employed for their ability to make left handed nazi salutes and jabber rather incoherently about very little.

    although I think they should be allowed to march we need to be aware of these nasty racists. It would make more sense to completely ignore them and let them pass by. Opposing them with counter demonstrations heightens their sense of self importance.

  139. BeautifulBurnout

    I'm trying to put together a draft piece for Jessica, will try and send it out tonight.

  140. According to vigdis's profile and posting history (well, as much of it as I was willing to read), she's a 68 year old woman in Gloucestershire who thinks she went to the same school as Sally Bercow.

    Haven't seen the Llanelli thread, but just the mention of it here <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Drrwhatg4T4&feature=related>reminded me of this</a>.

  141. Hehehe! I didn't get it until "Mum says I'll have to write a thank you letter" .. sounds very familiar :-)

  142. I seemed to have frightened everyone away :-(

  143. Don't worry about it Martyn.

    I posted here once and in a simultaneous act of malevolence the internet broke down.

    It may happen again as I post this.

    Here's hoping :-)

  144. Sorry. I should introduce myself.

    Hello, I'm Haimona.

    I hope you don't mind me butting in to your blog.

    I have been reading UT for a little while and only feel confident enough now to break the ice. I tried dipping a toe in the water once and the internet broke down, Thankfully that hasn't happened today.

    As most of you seem to be positively on the side of stand up and fight for our rights I hope I can add something useful to your discussions.

    If you don't mind me joining in, of course.



    Except for Hank, Monkeyfish and Scherfig. Would you three hold back? Your sardonic comments might be too much for a lightweight like myself.

  145. Welcome, Haimona!

    Don't worry about sardonic comments from any quarter -- we'll sort 'em out. I'm sure that everyone else will be happy to have you around, as well.

    Looking forward to getting to know you,